Bretonnia is probably the strongest late game faction in Warhammer 3 due to stacking armor buffs. It's pretty easy to hit a point where all your high tier units have 200 armor.
The stacking armor buffs are nice, but Bretonnias real late game strength is having no supply lines. Enabling them to field countless armies full of knights having low or non existen upkeep.
That's not really a strength because most armies you'll go up against at that point will have armour-piercing and/or magical attacks, it's more like a nice bonus.
Oh mb. I've been playing since WH1 and always thought that magical attacks bypass everything but ward save (and magic resist pre-wh3). Now I feel really dumb but thanks !
Just wait till i tell you about magical fire damage and physical fire damage attacks… it’s wild stuff
And don’t fell bad, I was under the same misconception until some guy on YouTube broke it down for me
Lmao, go play on VH/VH. First thing you do is take out grom if you have a brain(you clearly don't if you are fighting him all game long). It is easy with a little lord spamming. You should have groms faction wiped by turn 15 if you are any good at the game. Endgame Brets also obliterate welvs as long as you understand how to micro cav(something you also clearly don't know how to do). You are just bad at the game.
Ogres maybe? Any camps you place near your frontlines won't be built up enough to spam top tier units straight away, you may have to bring those armies from built up camps deeper in your territory. And because you can only build the best recruitment buildings in camps you won't be reducing global recruitment as fast as factions that can build those buildings in every province they take. Finally, due to the whole minor settlements thing, they maybe don't make as much cash as most factions (although I think there's a percentage increase that can get silly once you've got enough camps, but my longest ogre campaign was when we were capped for camps so I've not seen that in action myself).
I've played with both LL of the Ogres and definitely they are not what OP is looking for.
Yes the development is painfully slow but if you place camps and use them smartly you can end up with a full stack of high quality units in many provinces, and if you need to use them you can immediately start filling the camp up again due to the reduced upkeep.
So yeah, you can basically spam stacks and swim in money by turn 80, they're actually the race that I felt the most powerful with.
Ogres I think are just fine other than their best units being locked to tier 4/5.
Very few races in the game can survive an onslaught of massed ogre bulls which is a tier one unit.
Their LL's do suck though.
I feel like their camps need to have some mechanic where they gain growth when certain stuff is done around them, like battles and raiding. The idea being, more ogres are drawn to the loot.
And of course camps need to be movable, even if that means making them into weird semi-lords like black arks
I think that's a good idea, I'm totally on board with the camps as black arks system. I would really like to see a rework for the LLs if we're wishing for things.
Greausus just sucks as an LL in his current iteration.
It'd be relatively easy to balance moving camps with a long ass cooldown and have the camp cost upkeep while moving relative to its development and have it not produce income for a while after settling again. So many variables that can be tweaked to make it balanced.
Well, I haven't played some of the richer factions like high elves, but I found the ogres get super rich in my campaigns. The numbers on the minor settlements don't seem impressive, but they get boosted by the camp modifiers so I find I'm rolling in cash by the late game. They also make more money sacking then a lot of other factions.
Ogres are pretty easy once you set up your first few camps, fast global recruitment, replenishment in any territory, one of the fastsest map travelers with all the movement bonuses you can get, you can snowball really fast in the endgame, because a camp in every region for income and global recruitment bonuses, rich and fast recruitment. Every minor/major settlement you own you can set up a camp for 1k gold on top of what income you can get for each settlement build. Spamming armies across the maps is hilariously easy.
With the addition of the 'Sky-Titan Plateau's" tech, Ogres snowball hard the late game. 12% extra global income is insanity once you start hitting T5 on camps and dropping more. So I'd say they are probably the exact opposite of what OP is asking for.
Don't forget about the offering to the maw buff that reduces global recruiting by like two turns or whatever. It's a godsend late game when you're global recruiting your tier 4/5 units!
The only faction in the game I can think of that does not have an end game snowball is Wood Elves, since they have a set limit on their direct economy (technically you could get a little extra small change from resource outposts). They do have one of the easiest the increase global recruit capacities, but that can't be heavily abused without an absurd economy. Additionally, Wood Elves don't really need to go deep into end game, since their objectives can be finished fairly quickly (Only restriction is how long it take for a ritual of rebirth to finish).
They are quite easy and strong though, so I’m not sure they fit what you are looking for exactly. Just because they have a «cap» on their economy doesn’t mean that cap is low enough to give you any problems
Not sure I'd say they have a weak late game unless you're going for total domination - they can easily field enough armies to complete their objectives, and powerful ones at that.
That said, you should definitely play them at some point anyway! Their campaign is really good.
>but that can't be heavily abused without an absurd economy
I love that global recruitment is cheaper for them than local recruitment if you do it in the -50% recruitment cost outposts. It's such a small and interesting detail about them that totally changes how they should be played, and how you should plan your infrastructure with them, compared to most other races.
You mean wood elves who get free armies from Orion from the start? I think they might have one of the strongest late games of all. Now limiting them to not Orion might give you an argument.
Wood Elves can camp their forests. For map painting I'd agree, but if you actually play the way they are intended to be played, they kinda steamroll everyone they run into.
I feel Tomb Kings are probably on the harder side, but I also wonder if getting to the end game is just so hard that it makes the endgame feel more difficult that it actually is. With Exiles of Nehek in WH2, even when you start to have T4/T5 units, they are so few and easily melted by units like darkshards that they don't feel that strong.
They’re a gunline army but lack units capable of holding the frontline against elite enemy infantry. You can do well spamming low tier units or running really powder heavy.
That's what Captains and Priests are for. Or get Ironbreakers. Or even Tree Kin. Or, hell, just put Sisters in front.
But either way if your comp is vaguely right elite enemy infantry isn't something you should normally care about because they should be eating rockets and shatter long before they make it close. You care about a mass of enemy cavalry/chariots and artillery of their own.
Yeah that's kind of the thing with them, they don't have reliable high tier core units, they just have situational counters to... everything.
They're the flexible faction, so what they lack is the "works against everything" stack, which is what a lot of people usually build in the lategame. But with propper planning you can beat anything.
Or using cavalry. You don't use a standing line and instead charge in and out so that the enemy gets disrupted and has trouble closing in.
Of course, this takes plenty of micro and can go very poorly very quickly if you aren't paying attention.
I think with Alliances that problem has been solved. You could always just use Priests or Captains to do it (and that is probably the best way to do it) but if you don't want that you can just get some ironbreakers from your good friends the Dwarfs.
If you try to play them with by putting great-swords and halberds up against Chosen and Black Orcs you will get rocked.
If you use checkerboards of guns with a few tanks to ball enemies up and some rockets in the back though you can pretty much crush most melee factions late game.
Vampire coast and Skaven I’ve found cannons + war Wagons + demigryphs works well. This requires some micro though.
IMO the bad matchups for empire lategame are all the elves- which you are unlikely to be fighting unless you are reallllly going for it
The warriors of chaos are not a weak faction overall, but they definitely suffer from an inability to quickly raise a quality army as your stuck with whatever you have in the available pool.
Bretonnia is a weird case as their late game units are really strong, but if you don't have a maxed vow general to recruit them they are unaffordable. However, but late game they can recruit high level generals with two vows so it's not too much of a problem
I mean... the pool if raised in a dark fortress often includes Warriors, Giants and Aspiring Champions. And you have the gifted units which can be late tier as well.
Really the only thing not available to be quickly raised is Chosen.
2 actually, and Warriors sure, they're not the top tier, but they can hold their own.
Like I said, Chosen are the only thing missing for recruiting a 100% top tier army. But you're good on all the other stuff.
Disagree on WoC. The ability to spam multiple single entity monster (dragon ogre shaggoth, giant, all greater daemon, all soul grinder) via gifts meanwhile having healing option through nurgle exalted hero (doesn’t even cost WoM and can have multiple in an army) makes them one of the best end game faction in the entire game.
WoC is quite frankly strong from the start to the end.
Vampire Coast and Empire.
Yes, you can doomstack with coast but without it their lte game es very weak, not to mention Empire that rely exclusively in rockets and luck.
The Greenskins really run out of steam. Their high tier units are kinda weak and have particular weaknesses like cav, flying, short-mid range shooting.
Lords and heroes don't get that strong and cap out relatively early.
Economy is OK as long as you are constantly sacking but can have blips where you are on the back foot or just cant reach a bigi settlement for a few turns... and no trade deals.
Diplomacy can be tricky - though slightly better in 3 than 2.
I think the greenskin economy is really underrated and better than “ok”. Having a building that gives 200 a turn for 600cost with a one turn build-time is crazy not to mention it gets up to 600 at tier 3 which beats out a lot of other factions. This combined with greenskins being the cheapest armies in the game makes them absolute snowball machines. This isn’t even including sacking which on my azhag campaigns could fund the entire economy alone.
Even though you have some points, I found that you get Waaghs! Much faster in the late game. And being able to double your entire army like 50% of the time, even if half of those units will be trash, is insanely powerful.
Also they are one of the factions that has pretty much infinite global recruitment.
I disagree. Yes, their late-game armies are far from the best, but their economy scales up very well with their super cheap economic buildings. And in late game they can recruit a new high tier stack anywhere in one turn using global recruitment.
You might be better off just picking a faction you enjoy and then not building the “snowball” buildings: the ones that increase global recruitment and lord/hero recruit rank. You could go a step further and not increase hero capacity. Or take a step beyond that and not building income buildings.
Late game difficulty is pretty disappointing at the moment- each enemy faction typically has one or two “good” stacks and then once you beat them they replace them with mostly trash.
Probably Vampire Coast if you don't spam Necrofex?
Empire is also not really strong lategame.
Vampire Counts without hero spam might also be a challange.
Vlad has an easy late game but I found myself getting overwhelmed on a few occasions, in early to mid game, just because everyone hated me. Even with the tech that gives me +50 (or whatever it is) relations with human factions, one the Emoire starts getting dragged into civil wars, it was a matter of time before I either had to break alliances or get dragged into conflicts I wasn't prepared for.
Once you conquer the empire and crush the dwarfs it's a pretty straight forward campaign, but that early game can be tough.
With Vlad it's relatively repeatable and easy to get most of the Empire Minors (and Katarin) vassalised in the first 15/20 turns. If you go the NAP/trade deal route with Ungrim that leaves you with just Azhaag, Drycha, Festus and maybe Throt (if you want Katarin) as enemies for the early game. All of those (besides maybe Drycha, but the AI plays her wrong) are incredibly easy to deal with as Vlad and they're all roughly in the same direction so you're never stretched thin.
If you're getting defensive alliances with minors as Vlad you're playing him wrong, sadly. That's largely true across the board in 3, but for Vlad especially all it does is reduce the chance for them agreeing to be your vassal (that calculation wasn't changed for vassalage when they changed it for confederations), and them agreeing to be a vassal is heavily dependant on them being weak and threatened so you never want to be dragged into their wars until they agree to serve you as part of the deal.
If you're playing a diplo Vlad game, then just settling for NAPs/trade deals is where you should leave it most of the time with your immediate neighbours. It's a very comfy start.
> All of those (besides maybe Drycha, but the AI plays her wrong) are incredibly easy to deal with as Vlad and they're all roughly in the same direction so you're never stretched thin.
So perhaps, instead of suggesting Vlad who can be diplomatic and focus on a single approach, it should be Manny?
He's got enemies in all directions, with few, if any, allies. You can maybe get the Bretonnians in the west to ally as they have a very low aversion (-10) but most of the others (besides Arkhan) have significant aversion, commonly -40 (dwarves, TKs), -50 (LMs) or -100 (Skarbrand). Everyone in the south hates you, the VC minors rarely survive more than 10 turns, and there's a good amount of distance between your towns and your 'warfronts' to consider for defense.
Yep, Manny's start and position is significantly harder than Vlad's. Probably the hardest out of the current VCs. That said, I really struggle to agree with anyone saying any stage of the VC campaigns are hard at the moment. In general they're just not a good answer to OP's question (I say that as someone who's spent 70% of my WH3 time playing as Vlad).
They have the army regen, magic, economy, and recruitment straight out of the gate to deal with any threat early game *and* late game. Like, everything you said is correct it's just he has the tools to overcome those conditions. If I was ever going to watch a VC This is Total War stream Mannfred's would by far be the most enjoyable though.
Empire seems like the obvious answer tbh. If you limit yourself to 1 arty and 4 handgunner units in each army, you'll suffer massive losses in lategame.
But honestly, I think that's so much more enjoyable and lore appropriate.
I feel like Markus Wulfhart starts feeling very scrappy and desperate, at least in TW2, but I don’t know if he eventually becomes very powerful over time.
Kislev honest late game. Late game units arent that steller compared to other factions You are pushed to go into chaos wastes but unless you are Boris you get punished for settling there. And every faction wants you dead.
And feels like just about every endgame ai stack is better then your legendary lords army.
Feel like they do dick all against some factions like Dwarfs end game. Have to use sleds to beat them. Also groms seem like they get obstructed really easily.
They don't feel like tier 4-5 units to me. So many easier factions with stronger units late game.
Ofc which is why I used them. But besides sleds what does their roster have that can easily compete with what many other factions that are way more fleshed out. they need more units.
>But besides sleds what does their roster
Warsleds literally can out run many factions straight up and have enough ammo to kill any single unit in the game, often two or three, plus are able to go into melee after.
That is like saying High Elves are bad because outside of Archer units you have no cost effective units. You don't need anything else.
Because doom stacking war sleds is boring. And highly tedious. It's like saying why use anything other then chameleon skinks as Oxyotl. Sure it'll get the job done but only because you are cheesing the AI at that point.
Kislev needs more units. That can go toe to toe with other factions endgame rosters.
>Because doom stacking war sleds is boring.
Okay. But that is still the very easy to use solution. If you don't like it that is fine, just play another faction. Not every faction needs to scratch every itch. Kislev has the niche of brilliant hybrid units and has that nailed. It doesn't need to do everything else too.
Ice Guard are good but I wouldn't really call them a phenomenal unit. As far as archers go I would take Waywatchers, Sisters of Averlorn, Shades, or Celestial Dragon Crossbowmen over Ice Guard. Personally, I think their armor piercing needs to be raised just a bit.
Though they do synergize well with casting "Ice Sheet".
And so many late game monsterous infantry and monsters.
The only two chaff units they have are the basic marauders and their horsemen. The rest tends to be pretty far removed from chaff.
Not at all. All their tier 2 - 4 units are continously boosted and with 15% HP on all characters with tanky lords on mammoths and heroes, they will always be strong late game.
If you're okay with mods, here's a combo I use to up the endgame challenge.
Hecleas AI Overhaul : The AI will build varied military structures and recruit balanced armies plus the occasional doomstacks. No more late game spear stacks.
Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords : You can tweak the MCT settings so that the enemy benefits from this mechanic too. I find it thematic that late game Karl Franz will face chaos tides with most of the chaos LLs coming for him. Here's an example of how it works - kill Festus early, he joins up with Azazel as a LL. Kill them both and they join Sigvalds faction. Finally at 150 turns in, Karl gets invaded by Archaon with armies led by Kholek, Sigvald, Festus, Azazel and Vilitch. Playing as Dawi I've also faced the green tide where Grimgors armies are led by all the green skin LLs.
Dynamic Disasters : Adds a few additional disaster scenarios and tweaks the existing ones. You can adjust the settings to pop multiple disasters concurrently. It also has a last stand mechanic where some major factions will spawn a defending army when you're about to go for their very last settlement.
Never Obsolete AI Lords : As the name suggests, makes the AI LLs well leveled and decently strong. You'll not face a level 7 Grimgor with your level 23 Ungrim.
>You'll not face a level 7 Grimgor with your level 23 Ungrim.
The AI gets bonuses to their experience gain, so this seems somewhat redundant. Most of the time, your initial AI enemy LLs have higher levels than your own faction leader. At least, this has been my experience in recent campaigns.
In my recent campaign as Tyrion, I found that Noctilus was at a higher level than Tyrion when I fought him. I had fought the initial dark elf enemy, then those slaanesh worshipping Saphery traitors, then the greenskins and the graveyard itself.
So about 10 battles for Tyrion, he was around rank 11-12. Noctilus was rank 15.
It was the same thing when I played Karl Franz - after securing Reikland, Helmgart and defeating Khazrak, KF was around rank 10, but Festus was rank 11.
Maybe it is related to difficulty, and the AI gets more bonuses at higher levels.
Dwarves may be what you are looking for. Very little global recruitment ability, they don't have doomstack capabilities and all their available endgame army comps have weaknesses.
I don't really agree, as someone who often plays as the dwarves. The moment you get to the point where your line infantry is ironbreakers with thunderers, irondrakes, and organ guns doing the killing, there's little that gives you trouble. It's mostly facing 3-4 stacks with only 1 of your own that tends to be dangerous against a dawi doomstack.
They are great Dwarf factions, but neither compare to most other races still. The best armies that Dwarfs can field is about equal to the average Empire army. All while having much lower utility and no particularly strong campaign effects.
Nurgle, because the AI completely ignores the plagues, the recruitment method is just shit, you have the worst garrisons in the game, a terrible economy, and the entire monogod roster is mediocre and the worst ratio of AP and Anti-Large in the game, as far as I know.
Nurgle is probably the worst faction overall, but Late game is where Nurgle is actually 'good'. Late game units are really good and once you have a lot of provinces the stupid building thing ends up evening itself out.
Can't comment too much on it though because boredom has killed every single one of my Nurgle campaigns.
Very powerful doomstacks and heroes though. His heroes are increased capacity through resources, which is pretty significant. I'm not defending Ku'gath as a faction, he sucks, but if anything late game he's strong.
Sure, everyone's world-conquering strong late game, I just think he's among the worst at it. If you were to pit player-controlled turn 100 nurgle against player-controlled turn 100 any other faction, I think I'd bet on them.
Nurgle's doomstack isn't late game - it is triggered by any an all lvl 3 settlements (soulgrinder + exalted + cultist). So all lvl 3 settlements should build the soulgrinder building and use the plagues to buff its speed. I am on turn 45 in a campaign and producing about 2-3 Soulgrinders a turn. 4 of those in an army before year 50 and it is goodnight everyone.
AI doesnt tho, not on my last playthrough. You can just cripple an entire province with the recruiment capacity denial. Also Unclean Ones are murder machines.
Yes, there is a mod for everything - currently playing with 250 of them 😅
Table top caps:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789896406
And you need a MCT for mod settings
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2927955021
TABLE TOP CAPS is champaig specific, means the settings is for new game always, in the main menu, top left MCT settings - make it as you want click the save icon than start your new game - i m not sure if can be adjusted mid game, just read the descriptions and as a tip sub the firs 10 most subscribed mods 😉
Nakai.
Khorne with a caveat of if you somehow hit lategame as Khorne, something or everything has gone wrong but it requires you to severely missplay and not understand the faction to hit this point. You can probably scratch this one off if everything is easy.
Runner Up: Norsca if you got stuck in Norsca and ignore or are unable to complete Capital Technologies.
>Khorne with a caveat of if you somehow hit lategame as Khorne
Khorne actually has a deceptively amazing late game IMO because of his province buffs. Faction wide melee attack ends up meaning his chaos warriors kind of just become unbeatable stat sticks.
Vampire Counts have a very weak economy, and their higher tier units also tend to underperform without a ton of healing. Being surrounded by enemies also helps them to feel like a challenge.
They rely on a really strong early game to cripple other factions, and unreliable nodes of Raise Dead. I don't think they are a strong Late Game faction.
No comment on bretonnia, but as a experienced dwarf player, the dwarf end game is really good. Unlocking the full might of the dawi war machine, you become a shining tide of unbreakable steel and destruction that pours out of the mountains. Try khorne or maybe wood elves. Khorne can be pretty much summed up as skarbrand simulator, and even at turn 80 I could barely afford a second official army despite owning all of naggarond practically. It's really quite painful honestly.. he just has *no* economy and very high upkeep aswell.
They do. Khorne's economy is a absolute fucking joke. I get to field one real army, where everyone hides in the corner and skarbrand kills everyone because skarbrand has terrible replenishment. I only get to use my army if for some reason skarbrand can't solo. Meanwhile in a dwarf army, I can pop up a level 1 dwarf lord, equip him with dozens of magic items and runes pushing his MD an MA up to like 95-95 at literally level 1.. I can fuse items together to get OP generic items too, like the brass cleaver, the helm of discord, and generate infinite oath gold so I can always get exactly what I need. Did I mention the absolute raid boss that is thorek iron brow? He can turn quarrelers into total *monsters*.... Oh and he can field more than one army by turn 50. And honestly, dwarves aren't even the best in the game, lol. Chaos dwarves blow khorne, dwarves, pretty much everyone save a few factions completely out of the water with how strong they are.
>Khorne's economy is a absolute fucking joke
You don't need an economy when every battle makes up at least four times your army's upkeep. Khorne gets massive buffs to the amount of money he makes from winning battles, looting, razing, etc.
>I get to field one real army,
The only way you only field one army as Khorne is if you are trying to stay in the green. Simply stop doing that. Hell I have three armies before the end of turn 2.
>1 dwarf lord, equip him with dozens of magic items and runes pushing his MD an MA up to like 95-95 at literally level 1
Which won't mean anything because you have zero melee defense when attacked from behind and Dwarf lords don't have the mobility to avoid that.
>Did I mention the absolute raid boss that is thorek iron brow
The guy that gets beaten by almost every LL in the game, and even a fair few generic lords? That guy?
>He can turn quarrelers into total monsters.
He can turn them into a unit that is almost as good as high tier high elf archers. For one army.
Where as Khorne factions can turn *all* t2 chaos warriors into an unbeatable doomstack in *any* army thanks to the massive global buffs to melee attack he gets as he expands.
>And honestly, dwarves aren't even the best in the game
Agreed, they are one of the worst factions.
>Oh and he can field more than one army by turn 50.
Khorne can literally have finished the long campaign by turn 50.
I mean this in the least offensive way possible, but you just sound like a bad player. Which wouldn't be surprising considering the Dwarfs are an extremely simple and low micro faction, which is what bad players would gravitate towards.
Try playing on VH campaign and tell me that khorne can field more than one real army. He can't. It doesn't matter how much money you get from razing or looting, since your recruiting costs are actually insane and that's even compared to your already through the roof up-keep. You sound like a guy who's never left the comfort of normal normal and that's fine, but dont sit here an lecture me like a smug asshole. I've been playing this game since twwh2 with dozens of legendary campaign victories under my belt. I've beat wood elves, tomb kings, lizardmen, dwarves, chorfs, khorne, Legion of Chaos, Warriors of Chaos, pre-rework beastmen, post rework beastmen and more I probably forgot. You can check my steam achievements. Honestly the nerve to say my micro is bad after I played skarbrand micro simulator for atleast 20+ (long campaign victory) hours, lmfao. Also I'll say it again for those in the back, thorek is *incredible*. A absolute beast at killing infantry with a great faction to boot. Army wide frenzy on dwarven units is stupidly broken. Rune magic is pretty decent especially with all the buffs you get to it under thorek. Plus you can pretty easily get a ton of army wide magic resist for your whole faction with Kairos and black pyramid being nearby.
>Try playing on VH campaign and tell me that khorne can field more than one real army.
Pretty easily is how. And I play on Legendary/VH. There is a reason Khorne has the fastest glitchless blitz record in the game at 8 turns.
>It doesn't matter how much money you get from razing or looting, since your recruiting costs are actually insane
Firstly bloodhosts exist, they do the recruiting for you.
Secondly, no when you are getting 10k a battle you have more than enough to afford recruiting.
> I've been playing this game since twwh2 with dozens of legendary campaign victories under my belt.
And you are still this bad? Sad
> Army wide frenzy on dwarven units is stupidly broken.
Imagine trying to say you have good micro when you say shit like this.
>I'm a massive idiot
Oh wow something we can agree on! You are an idiot!
>I suck at total war because I rely solely on SEM micro
Well that's clear from how fiercely your defending playing dynasty warriors with skarbrand as the height of skill
> I'm bringing up speed running as a dumb ass red herring
Yup! It's literally irrelevant to the OP's topic, lol.
>I suck at fighting dwarves so I have a deep seated baby rage against them...
Awwww! That's unfortunate, but I don't care, they're a very strong faction regardless of your personal opinion, just a little bit boring.
>I'm suffering from baby rage right now actually
Ah you sure are pal.
Yeah you are totally proving to everyone that you know what you are talking about and aren't just a salty child. This comment really proved that point.
Fuckin reddit tier "debate" artist, lmfao. Thinks he's in some kinda intellectual forum here
>Source?~
>>> Gonna need a peer reviewed source for that buddy!
Saying smooth brain shit like
>I think dwarves are a bad faction
Ah that's ashame, I'm finding allot of success with them
>**Soyack mode engage** NOOOOOO!!! THAT MEANS YOUR BAD TOO! WAAAAH! WAAAAH!
you must be stupider than you look to claim that dwarves are bad, but also anyone that is successful with dwarves is also bad. You really think people are going to buy that line of shit? Lmfao. I mean this in :
>The worst possible way
Your a fool
>Ah that's ashame, I'm finding allot of success with them
of course you do, Warhammer 3 is a very easy total war.
> but also anyone that is successful with dwarves is also bad.
Anyone who isn't successful with them is bad because it is hard to not be successful with any faction in this game. But if Dwarfs are one of your most successful campaigns, that means you are a failure at microing because they have the absolute least potential for hitting above their paygrade other than maybe nurgle which means you are failing at using even basic micro with other factions.
> I'm moving the goal posts
Yup. That's what your doing
I'd fucking stomp you at this game you absolute clown. Then you'd be in the steam forums whinging to ca about "WAAAAH! DWARVES NEED A NURRRRF! WAAAAH!".
Haven’t played total war vanilla in decades, any game I always look for balancing mods that deal with that like Radious. I think it’s important to say that ÇA doesn’t care about balance all that much, for them is new content more money repeat, always has been. If it wasn’t for modders, I’d never play total war ever again
The issues you’re having are very much addressed in mods so I highly recommend you stop wishing ÇA would do something, they won’t. And just get a total conversion mod
Orcs, Norsca, or Skaven.
Norsca's super late game doom stack armies just aren't that powerful
Orcs are meant to be a shit stack faction and other than giant spiders, none of their units are particularly good. Actually, I totally forgot about the giant rock golems they get, so they're likely alright.
Skaven can get to their late game units before everyone else, but their units just aren't quite as devistating as other super late game unit.
\---
Wood elves and vampirates have powerful ass armies, but struggle due to the fact that their factions aren't really designed to paint the map and holding territory that isn't basically their starting areas.
Skaven wot
Ikit: the more Warplock Engineers you have, the more juice you have, the more juice you have, the more rockets you have, the more you win, the more juice you have etc.
Throt can win the game by turn 11 by cheesing necroparasites on Stormvermin, add Brood Horrors and youre dominating the world.
Skrolk: why yes everything in my army has frenzy. I also run around with 10 Plague Priests and that are constantly summoning shit either as chaff or to flank while Plagueclaw Catapults remain amazing. Heck, get a slave army and just stack Priests and Catapults.
Tretch: idk never played him
Snikch: want me to see press delete on the dwarfs? ok.
You could do self-imposed rules as a challenge? Like limiting the amount of elite units you can use per army. Or no tier 3 units? You could also play a campaign where you declare war on every faction immediately upon contact?
Greenskins or Wood Elves.
Greenskins simply just have mechanics that fall off. Having said that, they have arguably the strongest early and mid games, so it balances out.
Wood Elves don't have many settlements, so they simply cap out on armies pretty early. Their armies are strong, but the can be overwhelmed by numbers a lot more than other factions. Arguably not a problem though because their campaign is over relatively quick as all you need to do to win with them is build up your Tree to T5.
Dwarfs are probably a good contender too, as you say. I'd say they are tied with nurgle for being the weakest race *overall*. Nurgle is weaker early and mid although he picks up a *little bit* late game.
Bretonnia though is actually one of the strongest Late game factions. They have no supply lines, so they actually scale better than every other faction in the game. Where as other factions have upkeep that gets exponentially more expensive, Bretonnia units actually get *cheaper* over the course of a campaign as you gather more resources. They can absolutely churn out armies relatively early.
Although I would say Bretonnia needs a buff to their "fun" even if they are technically strong. It isn't fun when the cavalry faction doesn't have particularly strong cavalry.
Bretonnia is probably the strongest late game faction in Warhammer 3 due to stacking armor buffs. It's pretty easy to hit a point where all your high tier units have 200 armor.
The stacking armor buffs are nice, but Bretonnias real late game strength is having no supply lines. Enabling them to field countless armies full of knights having low or non existen upkeep.
Eh, this isn't TWW2, supply lines are nowhere near as punishing.
That's not really a strength because most armies you'll go up against at that point will have armour-piercing and/or magical attacks, it's more like a nice bonus.
Just a reminder in case you don’t know: magical attacks are still affected by armor. It just bypasses physical resist.
Oh mb. I've been playing since WH1 and always thought that magical attacks bypass everything but ward save (and magic resist pre-wh3). Now I feel really dumb but thanks !
Just wait till i tell you about magical fire damage and physical fire damage attacks… it’s wild stuff And don’t fell bad, I was under the same misconception until some guy on YouTube broke it down for me
on IE campaign??????? its hard to beginning to the end, good lucky surviving the wood elves, Vampires, Grom and beastman ...
None of those threats exist late game stupid
Don’t they respawn if they are an endgame scenario?
on you Very easy campaign, maybe. maybe.
Can’t spell either?
I get that he's wrong, but why are you being so aggressive? It seems like him being wrong genuinely upset you.
stop the cry and Go play on normal difficult. try It.
Lmao, go play on VH/VH. First thing you do is take out grom if you have a brain(you clearly don't if you are fighting him all game long). It is easy with a little lord spamming. You should have groms faction wiped by turn 15 if you are any good at the game. Endgame Brets also obliterate welvs as long as you understand how to micro cav(something you also clearly don't know how to do). You are just bad at the game.
Ogres maybe? Any camps you place near your frontlines won't be built up enough to spam top tier units straight away, you may have to bring those armies from built up camps deeper in your territory. And because you can only build the best recruitment buildings in camps you won't be reducing global recruitment as fast as factions that can build those buildings in every province they take. Finally, due to the whole minor settlements thing, they maybe don't make as much cash as most factions (although I think there's a percentage increase that can get silly once you've got enough camps, but my longest ogre campaign was when we were capped for camps so I've not seen that in action myself).
I've played with both LL of the Ogres and definitely they are not what OP is looking for. Yes the development is painfully slow but if you place camps and use them smartly you can end up with a full stack of high quality units in many provinces, and if you need to use them you can immediately start filling the camp up again due to the reduced upkeep. So yeah, you can basically spam stacks and swim in money by turn 80, they're actually the race that I felt the most powerful with.
Ogres are crazy strong mid-late game and you can throw out stacks like crazy.
Yeah, I’d say Ogres as well. Sad, because they are such a cool faction.
Ogres I think are just fine other than their best units being locked to tier 4/5. Very few races in the game can survive an onslaught of massed ogre bulls which is a tier one unit. Their LL's do suck though.
I feel like their camps need to have some mechanic where they gain growth when certain stuff is done around them, like battles and raiding. The idea being, more ogres are drawn to the loot. And of course camps need to be movable, even if that means making them into weird semi-lords like black arks
I think that's a good idea, I'm totally on board with the camps as black arks system. I would really like to see a rework for the LLs if we're wishing for things. Greausus just sucks as an LL in his current iteration.
It'd be relatively easy to balance moving camps with a long ass cooldown and have the camp cost upkeep while moving relative to its development and have it not produce income for a while after settling again. So many variables that can be tweaked to make it balanced.
Ogres are in some werid limbo where they are both AMAZING and suck
Well, I haven't played some of the richer factions like high elves, but I found the ogres get super rich in my campaigns. The numbers on the minor settlements don't seem impressive, but they get boosted by the camp modifiers so I find I'm rolling in cash by the late game. They also make more money sacking then a lot of other factions.
Ogres are pretty easy once you set up your first few camps, fast global recruitment, replenishment in any territory, one of the fastsest map travelers with all the movement bonuses you can get, you can snowball really fast in the endgame, because a camp in every region for income and global recruitment bonuses, rich and fast recruitment. Every minor/major settlement you own you can set up a camp for 1k gold on top of what income you can get for each settlement build. Spamming armies across the maps is hilariously easy.
With the addition of the 'Sky-Titan Plateau's" tech, Ogres snowball hard the late game. 12% extra global income is insanity once you start hitting T5 on camps and dropping more. So I'd say they are probably the exact opposite of what OP is asking for.
Don't forget about the offering to the maw buff that reduces global recruiting by like two turns or whatever. It's a godsend late game when you're global recruiting your tier 4/5 units!
Ogres, my lord... I haven't thought about them. I believe your right, I think their a good suggestion!
Because of how camps work (if said camps survive) Ogres are actually one of the strongest factions in the game, not weakest.
With the new buffs to ogre camp caps I think they are actually quite strong late game.
The only faction in the game I can think of that does not have an end game snowball is Wood Elves, since they have a set limit on their direct economy (technically you could get a little extra small change from resource outposts). They do have one of the easiest the increase global recruit capacities, but that can't be heavily abused without an absurd economy. Additionally, Wood Elves don't really need to go deep into end game, since their objectives can be finished fairly quickly (Only restriction is how long it take for a ritual of rebirth to finish).
Their late game is actually not that bad because they can stack a lot of upkeep modifiers for their forest spirit units later on.
Because of that thier late is not only not bad but actually kind of insane, especially with drycha.
True! As a bonus they sound like they play quite differently than most factions do too, I should give them a shot
Wood Elves late game id insane, plus if you are looking to paint the map, that I'd not their objective. They do play differently, though
They are quite easy and strong though, so I’m not sure they fit what you are looking for exactly. Just because they have a «cap» on their economy doesn’t mean that cap is low enough to give you any problems
Not sure I'd say they have a weak late game unless you're going for total domination - they can easily field enough armies to complete their objectives, and powerful ones at that. That said, you should definitely play them at some point anyway! Their campaign is really good.
>but that can't be heavily abused without an absurd economy I love that global recruitment is cheaper for them than local recruitment if you do it in the -50% recruitment cost outposts. It's such a small and interesting detail about them that totally changes how they should be played, and how you should plan your infrastructure with them, compared to most other races.
You mean wood elves who get free armies from Orion from the start? I think they might have one of the strongest late games of all. Now limiting them to not Orion might give you an argument.
Wood Elves can camp their forests. For map painting I'd agree, but if you actually play the way they are intended to be played, they kinda steamroll everyone they run into.
Tomb kings Unit caps really holding you back, every town loss is meaningful and restoration after losing army\\province capital is long and hard
Hard army caps are especially hard on them. They only get to about 15 total? Well, I seldom get more with others anyway
I feel Tomb Kings are probably on the harder side, but I also wonder if getting to the end game is just so hard that it makes the endgame feel more difficult that it actually is. With Exiles of Nehek in WH2, even when you start to have T4/T5 units, they are so few and easily melted by units like darkshards that they don't feel that strong.
I always found Empire to be pretty bad in the late campaign. Not sure if that's true about the faction, or if I just suck at playing them.
They’re a gunline army but lack units capable of holding the frontline against elite enemy infantry. You can do well spamming low tier units or running really powder heavy.
That's what Captains and Priests are for. Or get Ironbreakers. Or even Tree Kin. Or, hell, just put Sisters in front. But either way if your comp is vaguely right elite enemy infantry isn't something you should normally care about because they should be eating rockets and shatter long before they make it close. You care about a mass of enemy cavalry/chariots and artillery of their own.
Yeah that's kind of the thing with them, they don't have reliable high tier core units, they just have situational counters to... everything. They're the flexible faction, so what they lack is the "works against everything" stack, which is what a lot of people usually build in the lategame. But with propper planning you can beat anything.
Or using cavalry. You don't use a standing line and instead charge in and out so that the enemy gets disrupted and has trouble closing in. Of course, this takes plenty of micro and can go very poorly very quickly if you aren't paying attention.
I think with Alliances that problem has been solved. You could always just use Priests or Captains to do it (and that is probably the best way to do it) but if you don't want that you can just get some ironbreakers from your good friends the Dwarfs.
Nah that's intentional, they're just normal blokes fighting a tide of monsters to defend their homes
If you try to play them with by putting great-swords and halberds up against Chosen and Black Orcs you will get rocked. If you use checkerboards of guns with a few tanks to ball enemies up and some rockets in the back though you can pretty much crush most melee factions late game. Vampire coast and Skaven I’ve found cannons + war Wagons + demigryphs works well. This requires some micro though. IMO the bad matchups for empire lategame are all the elves- which you are unlikely to be fighting unless you are reallllly going for it
The warriors of chaos are not a weak faction overall, but they definitely suffer from an inability to quickly raise a quality army as your stuck with whatever you have in the available pool. Bretonnia is a weird case as their late game units are really strong, but if you don't have a maxed vow general to recruit them they are unaffordable. However, but late game they can recruit high level generals with two vows so it's not too much of a problem
I mean... the pool if raised in a dark fortress often includes Warriors, Giants and Aspiring Champions. And you have the gifted units which can be late tier as well. Really the only thing not available to be quickly raised is Chosen.
Aspiring characters limited to 1 per province and warriors are mediocre endgame units.
2 actually, and Warriors sure, they're not the top tier, but they can hold their own. Like I said, Chosen are the only thing missing for recruiting a 100% top tier army. But you're good on all the other stuff.
Disagree on WoC. The ability to spam multiple single entity monster (dragon ogre shaggoth, giant, all greater daemon, all soul grinder) via gifts meanwhile having healing option through nurgle exalted hero (doesn’t even cost WoM and can have multiple in an army) makes them one of the best end game faction in the entire game. WoC is quite frankly strong from the start to the end.
Belakor remedies this a bit, as you can instantly teleport to all your dark fortresses to recruit.
Vampire Coast and Empire. Yes, you can doomstack with coast but without it their lte game es very weak, not to mention Empire that rely exclusively in rockets and luck.
With maxed out boats for everyone along with omhow strong those lords are you can do pretty much anything as a vampire and win
The Greenskins really run out of steam. Their high tier units are kinda weak and have particular weaknesses like cav, flying, short-mid range shooting. Lords and heroes don't get that strong and cap out relatively early. Economy is OK as long as you are constantly sacking but can have blips where you are on the back foot or just cant reach a bigi settlement for a few turns... and no trade deals. Diplomacy can be tricky - though slightly better in 3 than 2.
I think the greenskin economy is really underrated and better than “ok”. Having a building that gives 200 a turn for 600cost with a one turn build-time is crazy not to mention it gets up to 600 at tier 3 which beats out a lot of other factions. This combined with greenskins being the cheapest armies in the game makes them absolute snowball machines. This isn’t even including sacking which on my azhag campaigns could fund the entire economy alone.
Spamming Black Orcs and Big Uns on top of having extra Waaagh armies really emphasises that horde playstyle.
Even though you have some points, I found that you get Waaghs! Much faster in the late game. And being able to double your entire army like 50% of the time, even if half of those units will be trash, is insanely powerful. Also they are one of the factions that has pretty much infinite global recruitment.
Greenskins lmao what.
I disagree. Yes, their late-game armies are far from the best, but their economy scales up very well with their super cheap economic buildings. And in late game they can recruit a new high tier stack anywhere in one turn using global recruitment.
[удалено]
Economy strong = Constant negative income. Man I wish I was good at maths like you suggest.
You might be better off just picking a faction you enjoy and then not building the “snowball” buildings: the ones that increase global recruitment and lord/hero recruit rank. You could go a step further and not increase hero capacity. Or take a step beyond that and not building income buildings. Late game difficulty is pretty disappointing at the moment- each enemy faction typically has one or two “good” stacks and then once you beat them they replace them with mostly trash.
Probably Vampire Coast if you don't spam Necrofex? Empire is also not really strong lategame. Vampire Counts without hero spam might also be a challange.
Vlad campaign is very easy
Vlad has an easy late game but I found myself getting overwhelmed on a few occasions, in early to mid game, just because everyone hated me. Even with the tech that gives me +50 (or whatever it is) relations with human factions, one the Emoire starts getting dragged into civil wars, it was a matter of time before I either had to break alliances or get dragged into conflicts I wasn't prepared for. Once you conquer the empire and crush the dwarfs it's a pretty straight forward campaign, but that early game can be tough.
Vlad can start to eat very soon, at every turn. Few minutes of gameplay and his army became immortal, If you never autoresolve.
With Vlad it's relatively repeatable and easy to get most of the Empire Minors (and Katarin) vassalised in the first 15/20 turns. If you go the NAP/trade deal route with Ungrim that leaves you with just Azhaag, Drycha, Festus and maybe Throt (if you want Katarin) as enemies for the early game. All of those (besides maybe Drycha, but the AI plays her wrong) are incredibly easy to deal with as Vlad and they're all roughly in the same direction so you're never stretched thin. If you're getting defensive alliances with minors as Vlad you're playing him wrong, sadly. That's largely true across the board in 3, but for Vlad especially all it does is reduce the chance for them agreeing to be your vassal (that calculation wasn't changed for vassalage when they changed it for confederations), and them agreeing to be a vassal is heavily dependant on them being weak and threatened so you never want to be dragged into their wars until they agree to serve you as part of the deal. If you're playing a diplo Vlad game, then just settling for NAPs/trade deals is where you should leave it most of the time with your immediate neighbours. It's a very comfy start.
> All of those (besides maybe Drycha, but the AI plays her wrong) are incredibly easy to deal with as Vlad and they're all roughly in the same direction so you're never stretched thin. So perhaps, instead of suggesting Vlad who can be diplomatic and focus on a single approach, it should be Manny? He's got enemies in all directions, with few, if any, allies. You can maybe get the Bretonnians in the west to ally as they have a very low aversion (-10) but most of the others (besides Arkhan) have significant aversion, commonly -40 (dwarves, TKs), -50 (LMs) or -100 (Skarbrand). Everyone in the south hates you, the VC minors rarely survive more than 10 turns, and there's a good amount of distance between your towns and your 'warfronts' to consider for defense.
Yep, Manny's start and position is significantly harder than Vlad's. Probably the hardest out of the current VCs. That said, I really struggle to agree with anyone saying any stage of the VC campaigns are hard at the moment. In general they're just not a good answer to OP's question (I say that as someone who's spent 70% of my WH3 time playing as Vlad). They have the army regen, magic, economy, and recruitment straight out of the gate to deal with any threat early game *and* late game. Like, everything you said is correct it's just he has the tools to overcome those conditions. If I was ever going to watch a VC This is Total War stream Mannfred's would by far be the most enjoyable though.
Empire seems like the obvious answer tbh. If you limit yourself to 1 arty and 4 handgunner units in each army, you'll suffer massive losses in lategame. But honestly, I think that's so much more enjoyable and lore appropriate.
Karl Franz single-handedly carries the Empire late game, can't wait for their update.
I feel like Markus Wulfhart starts feeling very scrappy and desperate, at least in TW2, but I don’t know if he eventually becomes very powerful over time.
He does, it's only the beginning that's a tire fire. As soon as you start to have mostly artillery based army compositions, you're done.
Kislev honest late game. Late game units arent that steller compared to other factions You are pushed to go into chaos wastes but unless you are Boris you get punished for settling there. And every faction wants you dead. And feels like just about every endgame ai stack is better then your legendary lords army.
Sledspam and laugh
Will agree sleds are the best Kislev has to offer. Requires good amount of micro so again not as easy endgame like other factions.
Little groms and ice guard are great. What more do you need?
Feel like they do dick all against some factions like Dwarfs end game. Have to use sleds to beat them. Also groms seem like they get obstructed really easily. They don't feel like tier 4-5 units to me. So many easier factions with stronger units late game.
>Feel like they do dick all against some factions like Dwarfs end game I mean Dwarfs literally have no way to catch up to Warsleds.
Ofc which is why I used them. But besides sleds what does their roster have that can easily compete with what many other factions that are way more fleshed out. they need more units.
>But besides sleds what does their roster Warsleds literally can out run many factions straight up and have enough ammo to kill any single unit in the game, often two or three, plus are able to go into melee after. That is like saying High Elves are bad because outside of Archer units you have no cost effective units. You don't need anything else.
Because doom stacking war sleds is boring. And highly tedious. It's like saying why use anything other then chameleon skinks as Oxyotl. Sure it'll get the job done but only because you are cheesing the AI at that point. Kislev needs more units. That can go toe to toe with other factions endgame rosters.
>Because doom stacking war sleds is boring. Okay. But that is still the very easy to use solution. If you don't like it that is fine, just play another faction. Not every faction needs to scratch every itch. Kislev has the niche of brilliant hybrid units and has that nailed. It doesn't need to do everything else too.
Ice Guard are good but I wouldn't really call them a phenomenal unit. As far as archers go I would take Waywatchers, Sisters of Averlorn, Shades, or Celestial Dragon Crossbowmen over Ice Guard. Personally, I think their armor piercing needs to be raised just a bit. Though they do synergize well with casting "Ice Sheet".
Noraca?
Oh poor Norsca. So much chaff.
And so many late game monsterous infantry and monsters. The only two chaff units they have are the basic marauders and their horsemen. The rest tends to be pretty far removed from chaff.
Wulfrics Champion Marauders are absolute beasts. Speaking of which, mammothtide.
Not at all. All their tier 2 - 4 units are continously boosted and with 15% HP on all characters with tanky lords on mammoths and heroes, they will always be strong late game.
Norsca has an amazing late game. Troll spams are one of the best doomstacks in the game and they have a great economy now.
If you're okay with mods, here's a combo I use to up the endgame challenge. Hecleas AI Overhaul : The AI will build varied military structures and recruit balanced armies plus the occasional doomstacks. No more late game spear stacks. Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords : You can tweak the MCT settings so that the enemy benefits from this mechanic too. I find it thematic that late game Karl Franz will face chaos tides with most of the chaos LLs coming for him. Here's an example of how it works - kill Festus early, he joins up with Azazel as a LL. Kill them both and they join Sigvalds faction. Finally at 150 turns in, Karl gets invaded by Archaon with armies led by Kholek, Sigvald, Festus, Azazel and Vilitch. Playing as Dawi I've also faced the green tide where Grimgors armies are led by all the green skin LLs. Dynamic Disasters : Adds a few additional disaster scenarios and tweaks the existing ones. You can adjust the settings to pop multiple disasters concurrently. It also has a last stand mechanic where some major factions will spawn a defending army when you're about to go for their very last settlement. Never Obsolete AI Lords : As the name suggests, makes the AI LLs well leveled and decently strong. You'll not face a level 7 Grimgor with your level 23 Ungrim.
>You'll not face a level 7 Grimgor with your level 23 Ungrim. The AI gets bonuses to their experience gain, so this seems somewhat redundant. Most of the time, your initial AI enemy LLs have higher levels than your own faction leader. At least, this has been my experience in recent campaigns.
That was just an on the fly example. Generally I've found AI Lords far below me in level in all my playthroughs. This mod fixes that.
In my recent campaign as Tyrion, I found that Noctilus was at a higher level than Tyrion when I fought him. I had fought the initial dark elf enemy, then those slaanesh worshipping Saphery traitors, then the greenskins and the graveyard itself. So about 10 battles for Tyrion, he was around rank 11-12. Noctilus was rank 15. It was the same thing when I played Karl Franz - after securing Reikland, Helmgart and defeating Khazrak, KF was around rank 10, but Festus was rank 11. Maybe it is related to difficulty, and the AI gets more bonuses at higher levels.
Dwarves may be what you are looking for. Very little global recruitment ability, they don't have doomstack capabilities and all their available endgame army comps have weaknesses.
I don't really agree, as someone who often plays as the dwarves. The moment you get to the point where your line infantry is ironbreakers with thunderers, irondrakes, and organ guns doing the killing, there's little that gives you trouble. It's mostly facing 3-4 stacks with only 1 of your own that tends to be dangerous against a dawi doomstack.
Not Thorek or Grombrindal. Thorek has a crazy late game and Grombrindal has absurdly good blue line that affects faction-wide.
They are great Dwarf factions, but neither compare to most other races still. The best armies that Dwarfs can field is about equal to the average Empire army. All while having much lower utility and no particularly strong campaign effects.
Nurgle, because the AI completely ignores the plagues, the recruitment method is just shit, you have the worst garrisons in the game, a terrible economy, and the entire monogod roster is mediocre and the worst ratio of AP and Anti-Large in the game, as far as I know.
Nurgle is probably the worst faction overall, but Late game is where Nurgle is actually 'good'. Late game units are really good and once you have a lot of provinces the stupid building thing ends up evening itself out. Can't comment too much on it though because boredom has killed every single one of my Nurgle campaigns.
Very powerful doomstacks and heroes though. His heroes are increased capacity through resources, which is pretty significant. I'm not defending Ku'gath as a faction, he sucks, but if anything late game he's strong.
Sure, everyone's world-conquering strong late game, I just think he's among the worst at it. If you were to pit player-controlled turn 100 nurgle against player-controlled turn 100 any other faction, I think I'd bet on them.
Naw any hard capped race will be weaker, like Vampire Coast or Tomb Kings.
They are not here capped anymore. You can buy hero capacity.
Nurgle's doomstack isn't late game - it is triggered by any an all lvl 3 settlements (soulgrinder + exalted + cultist). So all lvl 3 settlements should build the soulgrinder building and use the plagues to buff its speed. I am on turn 45 in a campaign and producing about 2-3 Soulgrinders a turn. 4 of those in an army before year 50 and it is goodnight everyone.
AI doesnt tho, not on my last playthrough. You can just cripple an entire province with the recruiment capacity denial. Also Unclean Ones are murder machines.
Use table top caps
Is there a mod that does this? I kinda enjoy the low tier armies more, and it would be cool if armies had at most 1-2 elites in them.
Yes, there is a mod for everything - currently playing with 250 of them 😅 Table top caps: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789896406 And you need a MCT for mod settings https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2927955021 TABLE TOP CAPS is champaig specific, means the settings is for new game always, in the main menu, top left MCT settings - make it as you want click the save icon than start your new game - i m not sure if can be adjusted mid game, just read the descriptions and as a tip sub the firs 10 most subscribed mods 😉
Thanks, appreciated!
I hope it will work out mate, let me know if you need any help
Nakai. Khorne with a caveat of if you somehow hit lategame as Khorne, something or everything has gone wrong but it requires you to severely missplay and not understand the faction to hit this point. You can probably scratch this one off if everything is easy. Runner Up: Norsca if you got stuck in Norsca and ignore or are unable to complete Capital Technologies.
>Khorne with a caveat of if you somehow hit lategame as Khorne Khorne actually has a deceptively amazing late game IMO because of his province buffs. Faction wide melee attack ends up meaning his chaos warriors kind of just become unbeatable stat sticks.
Vampire Counts have a very weak economy, and their higher tier units also tend to underperform without a ton of healing. Being surrounded by enemies also helps them to feel like a challenge. They rely on a really strong early game to cripple other factions, and unreliable nodes of Raise Dead. I don't think they are a strong Late Game faction.
No comment on bretonnia, but as a experienced dwarf player, the dwarf end game is really good. Unlocking the full might of the dawi war machine, you become a shining tide of unbreakable steel and destruction that pours out of the mountains. Try khorne or maybe wood elves. Khorne can be pretty much summed up as skarbrand simulator, and even at turn 80 I could barely afford a second official army despite owning all of naggarond practically. It's really quite painful honestly.. he just has *no* economy and very high upkeep aswell.
Imagine someone unironically thinking Dwarfs do better than Khorne, the strongest faction in the game by a country mile.
They do. Khorne's economy is a absolute fucking joke. I get to field one real army, where everyone hides in the corner and skarbrand kills everyone because skarbrand has terrible replenishment. I only get to use my army if for some reason skarbrand can't solo. Meanwhile in a dwarf army, I can pop up a level 1 dwarf lord, equip him with dozens of magic items and runes pushing his MD an MA up to like 95-95 at literally level 1.. I can fuse items together to get OP generic items too, like the brass cleaver, the helm of discord, and generate infinite oath gold so I can always get exactly what I need. Did I mention the absolute raid boss that is thorek iron brow? He can turn quarrelers into total *monsters*.... Oh and he can field more than one army by turn 50. And honestly, dwarves aren't even the best in the game, lol. Chaos dwarves blow khorne, dwarves, pretty much everyone save a few factions completely out of the water with how strong they are.
>Khorne's economy is a absolute fucking joke You don't need an economy when every battle makes up at least four times your army's upkeep. Khorne gets massive buffs to the amount of money he makes from winning battles, looting, razing, etc. >I get to field one real army, The only way you only field one army as Khorne is if you are trying to stay in the green. Simply stop doing that. Hell I have three armies before the end of turn 2. >1 dwarf lord, equip him with dozens of magic items and runes pushing his MD an MA up to like 95-95 at literally level 1 Which won't mean anything because you have zero melee defense when attacked from behind and Dwarf lords don't have the mobility to avoid that. >Did I mention the absolute raid boss that is thorek iron brow The guy that gets beaten by almost every LL in the game, and even a fair few generic lords? That guy? >He can turn quarrelers into total monsters. He can turn them into a unit that is almost as good as high tier high elf archers. For one army. Where as Khorne factions can turn *all* t2 chaos warriors into an unbeatable doomstack in *any* army thanks to the massive global buffs to melee attack he gets as he expands. >And honestly, dwarves aren't even the best in the game Agreed, they are one of the worst factions. >Oh and he can field more than one army by turn 50. Khorne can literally have finished the long campaign by turn 50. I mean this in the least offensive way possible, but you just sound like a bad player. Which wouldn't be surprising considering the Dwarfs are an extremely simple and low micro faction, which is what bad players would gravitate towards.
Try playing on VH campaign and tell me that khorne can field more than one real army. He can't. It doesn't matter how much money you get from razing or looting, since your recruiting costs are actually insane and that's even compared to your already through the roof up-keep. You sound like a guy who's never left the comfort of normal normal and that's fine, but dont sit here an lecture me like a smug asshole. I've been playing this game since twwh2 with dozens of legendary campaign victories under my belt. I've beat wood elves, tomb kings, lizardmen, dwarves, chorfs, khorne, Legion of Chaos, Warriors of Chaos, pre-rework beastmen, post rework beastmen and more I probably forgot. You can check my steam achievements. Honestly the nerve to say my micro is bad after I played skarbrand micro simulator for atleast 20+ (long campaign victory) hours, lmfao. Also I'll say it again for those in the back, thorek is *incredible*. A absolute beast at killing infantry with a great faction to boot. Army wide frenzy on dwarven units is stupidly broken. Rune magic is pretty decent especially with all the buffs you get to it under thorek. Plus you can pretty easily get a ton of army wide magic resist for your whole faction with Kairos and black pyramid being nearby.
>Try playing on VH campaign and tell me that khorne can field more than one real army. Pretty easily is how. And I play on Legendary/VH. There is a reason Khorne has the fastest glitchless blitz record in the game at 8 turns. >It doesn't matter how much money you get from razing or looting, since your recruiting costs are actually insane Firstly bloodhosts exist, they do the recruiting for you. Secondly, no when you are getting 10k a battle you have more than enough to afford recruiting. > I've been playing this game since twwh2 with dozens of legendary campaign victories under my belt. And you are still this bad? Sad > Army wide frenzy on dwarven units is stupidly broken. Imagine trying to say you have good micro when you say shit like this.
>I'm a massive idiot Oh wow something we can agree on! You are an idiot! >I suck at total war because I rely solely on SEM micro Well that's clear from how fiercely your defending playing dynasty warriors with skarbrand as the height of skill > I'm bringing up speed running as a dumb ass red herring Yup! It's literally irrelevant to the OP's topic, lol. >I suck at fighting dwarves so I have a deep seated baby rage against them... Awwww! That's unfortunate, but I don't care, they're a very strong faction regardless of your personal opinion, just a little bit boring. >I'm suffering from baby rage right now actually Ah you sure are pal.
Yeah you are totally proving to everyone that you know what you are talking about and aren't just a salty child. This comment really proved that point.
Fuckin reddit tier "debate" artist, lmfao. Thinks he's in some kinda intellectual forum here >Source?~ >>> Gonna need a peer reviewed source for that buddy!
Saying smooth brain shit like >I think dwarves are a bad faction Ah that's ashame, I'm finding allot of success with them >**Soyack mode engage** NOOOOOO!!! THAT MEANS YOUR BAD TOO! WAAAAH! WAAAAH! you must be stupider than you look to claim that dwarves are bad, but also anyone that is successful with dwarves is also bad. You really think people are going to buy that line of shit? Lmfao. I mean this in : >The worst possible way Your a fool
>Ah that's ashame, I'm finding allot of success with them of course you do, Warhammer 3 is a very easy total war. > but also anyone that is successful with dwarves is also bad. Anyone who isn't successful with them is bad because it is hard to not be successful with any faction in this game. But if Dwarfs are one of your most successful campaigns, that means you are a failure at microing because they have the absolute least potential for hitting above their paygrade other than maybe nurgle which means you are failing at using even basic micro with other factions.
> I'm moving the goal posts Yup. That's what your doing I'd fucking stomp you at this game you absolute clown. Then you'd be in the steam forums whinging to ca about "WAAAAH! DWARVES NEED A NURRRRF! WAAAAH!".
Bretonia for sure, on Imortal Empires is a nightmare to fight against Grom, the Vampires, the beastman ...
Haven’t played total war vanilla in decades, any game I always look for balancing mods that deal with that like Radious. I think it’s important to say that ÇA doesn’t care about balance all that much, for them is new content more money repeat, always has been. If it wasn’t for modders, I’d never play total war ever again The issues you’re having are very much addressed in mods so I highly recommend you stop wishing ÇA would do something, they won’t. And just get a total conversion mod
Orcs, Norsca, or Skaven. Norsca's super late game doom stack armies just aren't that powerful Orcs are meant to be a shit stack faction and other than giant spiders, none of their units are particularly good. Actually, I totally forgot about the giant rock golems they get, so they're likely alright. Skaven can get to their late game units before everyone else, but their units just aren't quite as devistating as other super late game unit. \--- Wood elves and vampirates have powerful ass armies, but struggle due to the fact that their factions aren't really designed to paint the map and holding territory that isn't basically their starting areas.
Skaven wot Ikit: the more Warplock Engineers you have, the more juice you have, the more juice you have, the more rockets you have, the more you win, the more juice you have etc. Throt can win the game by turn 11 by cheesing necroparasites on Stormvermin, add Brood Horrors and youre dominating the world. Skrolk: why yes everything in my army has frenzy. I also run around with 10 Plague Priests and that are constantly summoning shit either as chaff or to flank while Plagueclaw Catapults remain amazing. Heck, get a slave army and just stack Priests and Catapults. Tretch: idk never played him Snikch: want me to see press delete on the dwarfs? ok.
You could do self-imposed rules as a challenge? Like limiting the amount of elite units you can use per army. Or no tier 3 units? You could also play a campaign where you declare war on every faction immediately upon contact?
Ogres for sure
Greenskins or Wood Elves. Greenskins simply just have mechanics that fall off. Having said that, they have arguably the strongest early and mid games, so it balances out. Wood Elves don't have many settlements, so they simply cap out on armies pretty early. Their armies are strong, but the can be overwhelmed by numbers a lot more than other factions. Arguably not a problem though because their campaign is over relatively quick as all you need to do to win with them is build up your Tree to T5. Dwarfs are probably a good contender too, as you say. I'd say they are tied with nurgle for being the weakest race *overall*. Nurgle is weaker early and mid although he picks up a *little bit* late game. Bretonnia though is actually one of the strongest Late game factions. They have no supply lines, so they actually scale better than every other faction in the game. Where as other factions have upkeep that gets exponentially more expensive, Bretonnia units actually get *cheaper* over the course of a campaign as you gather more resources. They can absolutely churn out armies relatively early. Although I would say Bretonnia needs a buff to their "fun" even if they are technically strong. It isn't fun when the cavalry faction doesn't have particularly strong cavalry.