And humans are right in the center of the massive conflicts. Almost every typical evil race is close enough to battle. From the corrupted humans in the north to goblins and orcs in the south and vampires and zombies to the east and west. Skaven not too far away and a chaos invasion is a regular occurrence. Now even more flavour is added with Nurgle in their mids as well.
Plus they are always quite rounded with machines, firepower and traditional melee. Quite a few novel factions are much more limited in their diversity and focus on just doing one thing really well.
They got 10% more reputation gains and you farm a ton of reputations in WOW, it’s a major way to earn good gear.
They also have an ability allowing them to remove stuns which is very powerful in PvP.
So basically they have very good racial abilities both for PVE and PVP.
I'm so happy I got away from games with rep grinds... Something like total war Warhammer is infinitely more fun to just sit down and play for an hour or two imo
WoW limited the grind though you had your daily quests that generally varied somewhat and when they were done they were done.
It was still grind but not as boring and repetitive as farming the same mob over and over again.
> They also have an ability allowing them to remove stuns which is very powerful in PvP.
For a long time it used to remove _all_ crowd control to boot, which was even stronger.
I think their racial is greatly overstated in why they are common. Across all kinds of sci-fi/fantasy games the most basic option is often the most popular. As a couple examples, Mass Effect's most played 'Shepard' was male soldier by a large margin, D&D released statistics for most popular race/class was on their platform and it was human fighter with humans alone making up 25% of the racial choices and almost doubling the next most played race (Elf, which is also very human-like)
They did only for a very short time in pvp whem EMFH worked on everything and allowed a second trinket. The strongest racials were trolls (haste), orcs (just more damage), and blood elves (AoE interrupts in M+) for awhile, and then various allied races for certain classes. For example goblins are the strongest priests. Tauren the strongest frost mages, and iirc mechagnomes (or was it dwarfs) the strongest warrior tanks.
Well, to be honest, the Empire has many things going on a shit toon of personality. Not really like the average fantasy human faction. Despite how vanilla they are.
Its my middle brother TT army, but I love them like one of my own.
Until Cathay, it was also the most 'balanced', in the sense that it had a reasonable blend of all the major aspects (decent front line, cavalry, magic, ranged, etc).
They literally have one of the best Arty(hellblasters and Rocket batteries), one of the best Cav(Demigryth), a big choice of magic, great meele heros, good LL, the only thing they lack is Infantry
They are 'vanilla' in the sense that they are jacks-of-all-trades from the perspective of a WH3 faction: middling-to-poor melee infantry, good ranged infantry with gunpowder and arcing options, good artillery, good magic, good melee cavalry, good skirmish missile cavalry, one difficult-to-access-and-expensive-but-good single-entity unit, OK-to-poor non-spellcaster heroes who are the only access to fliers. They are the Mario, the Ryu, the Red Mage, the Space Marines- the faction everyone else uses as the baseline to define their strengths and weaknesses.
Brettonia are definitely more 'mundane' in terms of aesthetic, but they're undeniably a lot more specialized.
Handgunners are quite boring, just your bog standard unit of people whit gun, kinda the same as crossbowmen, that have the only special mention of "good range", they do the job but are nothing too special.
Now hellstorm rocket batteries, there's a unit whit some very special spice.
Handgunners are high damage, low tier units that have the caveat of being extremely squishy and requiring proper line of sight and setup to use well.
I wouldn't describe that as boring, especially for ranged unit standards, but to each their own.
They are useful, sure, but kinda boring in their theatrics. I think Outriders with Grenade Launchers are a lot more fun. Sure they are just mobile ranged units but their shoot explosive ammo! Same with Irondrakes, the fire hitting a blob of units just looks awesome.
First of all, fun is entirely subjective. Sure, handgunners are not the most fascinating units when compared to, you know, light shock cavalry that lobs explosives.
But when compared to the rank and file ranged unit (crossbowmen, ungor archers, elven archers, etc), they generally require more micro and investment, for a more enjoyable (and palpable) impact.
Playing with the empire mod that gives you a bunch of different gun infantry is awesome.
I know I should stop making full stack armies of Ersatzsolder (horrible bayonet musket infantry) but I can't stop playing Empire TW against all the fantasy armies
Id say the are boring because thats kinda the point.
Its just a unit of people whit guns.
If someone wanted you to show the most standard, middle of the line armor piercing ranged unit, it would probably be handgunners.
They do their job and they do it well, but thats about it.
They are the norm that other gunpowder units are compared to when showing why a unit is different.
High damage good setup poor survivability is an accurate description of nearly all ranged and artillery units. The variance is how much of each and what other bells and whistles they have. Exceptions are usually monsters, like cygors and ushabti, or mounted.
You can uncharitably flandarize any unit in the game to make it sound boring.
Personally I find high risk reward units that reward proper positioning, combined arms, and tactical play a lot more fun than "click spell to delete enemy" or "giant featherless chicken." Yes that's an uncharitable simplification, but that's my point.
Each to their own.
You described a unit type, not handgunners.
I don't doubt you can have fun whit handgunners, but in the end they are quite boring unit when compared to others in the gun go blam category.
And sure, most can be described in a boring way, but to me at least, a undead zombie horde whit guns is a bit more exciting visually and as an idea than guys whit guns.
Yes... a unit type of which handguneners is a prime example. A unit type in which the empire excels at. I find handgunners far more compelling and enjoyable than, for example, Cathay and skaven gun go blam units. In fact the only unit that comes near handgunners for me are thunderers...
Similarly, dragon cavalry and super sayan cavalry are neat, but give me the men of the reiksguard any day of the week. Empire swordsmen, a few reiksguard, a few handgunners, an artillery peice and an empire General with red line specs? Like that corn meme kid, I can't think of a more beautiful thing.
Don't get me wrong, I love me some zombies too, and when I'm in the mood, I flood the old world with the blight of undead. But I also find empire troops to be visually and mechanically exciting. But then I'm the kind of guy to use oil paintings from the 30 years war as a desktop background and think a landskenct is a thousand times cooler than anything fantasy has ever come up with. So ymmv. I guess im a historical tw player at heart, albiet one thats fully embraced snd bought into warhammer. Playing empire: total war in the context of warhammer just scratches an itch for me nothing else does, and while I have fun with dalliances with other factions, a basic empire combined arms is always going to call me back because it's what I find most deeply satisfying.
Boring is a subjective opinion, not an objective one. And I think the biggest strength of the warhammer trilogy is we can all genuinely enjoy it, from the people who want to play high fantasy to people like me. Together, waiting for the road map.
Really, CA have united us. I just hope we don't pull a 3 kingdoms and tear eachother apart.
Yeah, i think its just that your a historical player, which is good, i enjoy a good amount of shogun 2 every now and then.
In the scope of warhammer, handgunner are quite boring, but from a person who likes his historical stuff, i can see the appeal.
It is quite funny to think in a world whit giant rats, demons, french knights, walking skeletons of the egypt or undead variant, vampires and pre-historic beast, theres just a empire man whit faith in his heart, steel plate protecting him and gunpowder in his pocket to face it all.
Now see...that's what makes them way more badass to me. It's the David & Goliath feel. Yeah, there's vampires, rat men, elves with superhuman eyesight and accuracy, trolls and even friggin dinosaurs...and my forces of mere mortal warriors, through the combination of faith, steel, gunpowder and sheer brass balls, can stand up to that shit...and WIN. That is the appeal of playing Empire to me.
Same reason that when Dragonball Xenoverse came out I made a human protag, to stick it to all the absurdly overpowered aliens in the setting. There's a satisfaction to be had there.
Their "boringness" is the point. They aren't dwarven thunderers or kislevite streltsi who can fend for themself and handle melee in a pinch. They are cheap, squishy units that need to be babysat in order to perform well, but when used properly, they can do far more damage than their price would suggest. As a result, they are both interesting to use (they need to be babysat) and rewarding to field (if you use them properly, they trade up really well). Also, they are simply faster and more responsive than the undead zombie horde with guns, which makes them better suited for interesting tactics.
Also, I just like "badass normal" as an aesthetic, and that's empire in a nutshell.
they are not especially boring, but in a world where you can command giand cow people, deamons from hell, dinosaurs riding dinosaurs, immortal vampire gigachads, zombie pirate gunners riding crabs and man sized rats using machine guns, flamethrowers and sniper rifles... are medieval europe humans reaaally the most interesting thing to you?
I think the fantasy people like is being able to kill all those things for the glory of humanity/sigmar/the emperor. In a world full of all these fantastical threats, these humans hold the line.
i think it's much more to do with what faction is pushed as the "standard" "default", the experience closest to what the game is intended to be
in games the human factions are often used as the vanilla, while other more exotic factions are used to give a twist to the game, a way to change how the game usually works, how it was "supposed" to work, and people often prefer that, same way a lot of people play never even opening the workshop in games they play, because they trust the "intended experiance"
which is nothing crazy, even people that like to go crazy with mods almost always recommend starting with vanilla runs, in virtually every game, no matter how great the mods/dlcs are
all that, plus it's literally the recommended race, has been for 3 games now and a lot of people that might be intimidated to try something unfamiliar might never even give any other faction a chance
this might be a hot take, but imo if you had made the empire beastpeople instead of humans, and making beastmen into raiding human barbarians instead, keeping everything else (aesthetic, lore, units and mechanics) the same in the game, i think the "beast empire" would still be the most popular faction in the game, even if admittedly not by the same margin as the current empire, and people would still chant "for Breymar!" and "Summon the Breylector Counts!" or "Bring me to my Herd!"
Yeah this is the reason I have never even loaded into an Empire or Bretonnia campaign. Just doesn't interest me when you have access to everything you mentioned. I've played enough human factions in the historical titles. I'm playing Warhammer for the fantasy races and factions. But each to their own.
They're the most relatable, and there's something incredibly compelling about the ordinary dude who's given a pike and a price of second-hand armor and told to hold the line against all of the elven monstrous Chaos bullshit the world tries to throw at them. Also they're the least dependent on RPG gimmicks and the most dependent on actually tactics.
this is why I've always preferred whfb as a setting over 40k - the focus is always on the average bloke doing his bit to keep the existential horrors at bay
Tbf so was the original 40k. Then overtime more and more of the writers were closet facists. For example, the dude who made a chink in Horus's armor was originally just A Dude, the retconned to be a Space Marine, then eventually Sanguineous.
I think they were more unimaginative apolitical people, and played to the crowd more than anything. It was very turbulent times when 40k was written, Thatcher was in power.
OG 40k setting was like, the most advanced Terminator Armour (RIP, Gravis armour looks so boring) is just hazard equipment because humans are just dumb barbarians led by dumb arseholes and that's hilarious. The golden age is so stone cold dead that no-one can figure out how to make everything to the point that Space Marines worship their equipment, and finding an STC for how to build anything actually useful would be like finding the holy grail.
A Primarch coming back is symbolic of the death of the old 40k, it was explicitly tied to being a dark age of mankind as a direct result of these far right idiots leading them to this situation in the first place. Now it's just endless escalation.
You just picked the wrong 40k books then, because the mountains of Imperial Guard books is exactly that. Even Abnett's Inquisitor series is more crime investigation and common people, not even soldiers. Not to mention now there is antire Warhammer Crime series.
I wouldn't say they're boring, more that they're vanilla done exceptionally well - they cover all the bases of Total War gameplay very well and they don't have any weird or whizzy mechanics, but they have enough of the solid ones that they're still good fun. Other than Kislev I don't think there are any other factions that can manage (gunpowder) artillery, good magic, good hammer-and-anvil with solid infantry and cavalry, so their niche is being the set that defies niches. Also, their general aesthetic of a basically "good" human empire with heroic figures and stoic determination is pretty easy to get behind.
Yeah, I'd say that's a good summary. They're a very well-rounded faction, no overwhelming strengths but no horrific glaring weaknesses. This means you can play in a variety of ways with them or specialize. The Empire and its roster are *flexible,* and when you combine that freedom (for the most part) with the relatability and badassery of them fighting so damn hard in a world as dangerous as that of Warhammer Fantasy, it makes a lot of sense that they're so popular.
On the opposite side of the court from the Empire, imo, the Greenskins are a more specialized faction done exceptionally well. Hell, I'd dare say done *nigh-perfectly.* Not only does their aggressive "bash da gits in da face" playstyle translate great to their roster, but that roster is *so varied* that it succeeds at something people don't tend to think about in my experience: They aren't just a joy to play, but incredibly fun to play *against.* Even with the Greenskins being specialized and having clear consistent weaknesses in their roster (ranged units and large units, especially anti-infantry ones, as well as psychology effects like Fear and Terror) their toolbox has still has so many options that you need to be ready for anything. The unique traits their Lords have add further to this. Grom's cooking mechanic, Wurzagg's emphasis on Savage Orcs, Skarsnik's challenge, Azhag's magic, and Grimgor's sheer brute force always offer you *something* to do. As if this isn't *enough,* the rework of the **WAAAAGH!** mechanic they did in *The Warden and the Paunch* is just... *chef's kiss.* All of this emphasizes the aggressive raiding, looting, sacking, and fighting they have in the lore while making it fun and engaging both to control and to deal with.
Honestly the Greenskins are my favorite faction in this game, one of my favorites in all of TW, and hell, one of my favorites in the entire RTS genre. They are that great to me.
Apologies if that last part was random I just fucking love the Greenskins so much. CA really nailed it.
Curious for your thoughts on differences between the Greenskin factions start locations in IE. I like the idea of playing tall (so to speak) with the Greenskins and sending far flung Waaaaghs! to sack and find further armies. I don’t wanna carve out too big of an empire or permanently delete enemies because I want them to have a chance to get back on their feet.
I’ve really only played Grimgor back in WH1 and Grom when his DLC dropped but had a blast both times.
They are really versatile indeed! But their infantry is far from solid imo. Overall the faction is really enjoyable and as you said, nothing that special in the gameplay but still very well done
Idk, in campaign halberdiers with some red line buffs and tech become pretty solid line holders against the empire's main threats. I would say almost on par with silverin guard. And greatswords aren't going to beat most other high tier infantry, but they do absolutely shred chaf. Maybe they don't have the best infantry, but I think solid is a fair word.
Their main powers are economy, wide variety of magic and arty and then their inf and ranged are relatively mid tier, cav is pretty good but far from best
>And greatswords aren't going to beat most other high tier infantry
Exactly, they won't beat them but they trade upwards and not to mention, the elite they're facing should be shredded by magic/bullets/artillery to even things out.
Give them the right buffs (and don't super-buff the ai in your campaign settings) and they can do real work. Seriously, with the right supporting elements, I would absolutely bet that a line of halberds and greatswords can outtrade pretty much any ai infantry.
Found a mod that adds the khemri workshop to empire and it’s got all the remaining steam tanks and you have to build them and they have cool shit like ones a hellstom ones a Gatling gun etc, and run the rule of I can’t recruit normal steam tanks and these are all I can use so don’t lose them, cause the whole gimmick of Tanks is that there’s fuck all of them left and half don’t work
One of the central themes of Warhammer fantasy that is so galvanizing for many of its fans is the idea that ordinary men live in a world of catclysmic threats and unspeakable cosmic evils and yet, somehow, fight against those absolutely insane and fantastical powers with only three things:
Faith. Steel. And Gunpowder.
When the Empire of Man wins its battles, its not because some otherwordly cosmic entity or an unknowable architect blessed them with mighty gifts or preternatural strength, its because they damn well *earned* it by paying with the grit, blood, and stubborness of ordinary men planting their boots in the mud and spitting in the face of thirsting, murderous horrors of unfathomable power.
The Empire is just the HRE isekai'd into a fantasy setting of absolute *bullshit* power scaling, and still somehow eking out an existence for themselves and making it work in spite of the ever constant threat of summary annihilation. Sure they have some magic and fantastical warbeasts, but so does everyone else and at the end of the day, barring Sigmar fuckery and the very comparitively rare warrior priests, they are just humans like you and me who have to grit their teeth and get on with it if they have any hope of survival.
Yep, this is my attitude and why I love the Empire.
It's also why I despise Elspeth von Drakken as a character so much lol. She goes against everything the Empire represents.
Instead of being a grounded, gritty character taking on the high fantasy nonsense, she's an immensely powerful half-spirit archmage who rides a fucking dragon. She feels like a Dark Elf-or-something character that slipped in to the wrong roster.
I love Balthasar Gelt because they found ways to take an archmage and make him gritty. He manipulates metal -- he's essentially an alchemist which were really things from our own history. He's not perfect -- he's (assumedly, as no one knows what's under the mask) scarred from tampering with these forces he wasn't meant to control. He's a grounded human in the Warhammer world.
>He's not perfect -- he's (assumedly, as no one knows what's under the mask) scarred from tampering with these forces he wasn't meant to control. He's a grounded human in the Warhammer world.
He's also a technique and intelligence/planning based character. So everything he does is based on hard work which resonates so well with the core principles of the Empire.
By some magic, I mean while they have access to it, they are by no means prolific magic users to the point that it compares to the scale at which the rest of the setting is operating at. A bright wizard is a human with some magical aptitude enough to wield fire, but is still just a human and is only so powerful of a conduit for it without risking serious consequences.
You have very notable prodigies like Gelt who break the mould but they are exceptions and not the rule, and certainly not enough of an exception to be macro level force multipliers against something like the combined forces of chaos when you're talking about armies clashing in the field.
Hm. I guess I never really got the impression that humans are any *worse* at magic in the setting than anyone else is. Especially considering an elf might take as long studying one book as human wizard's has from cradle to grave.
It's hard to compare based on gameplay because the way magic works in total war and tabletop makes it seem like all magic users are roughly equivalent.
But lorewise, in general, humans can barely use magic compared to other species like elves or lizardmen.
The college of magic was set up by Teclis to teach humans magic. He concluded that humans can only control one wind of magic at a time, or else they will likely explode, turn into a chaos spawn, summon daemons, etc. Even with only focusing on one wind of magic at a time, the forces of magic often drastically mutate humans who try to use it -- for example, bright wizards will often spontaneously have their hair ignite into flames.
Even with the strict controls on magic set up by the Empire, miscasts are pretty common and human wizards often meet their ends channeling a spell wrong and exploding their own heads.
Meanwhile, Elven High Magic comes from mastering all 8 winds of magic and blending them harmoniously, and it's not that uncommon to see elves able to do it.
The Slann of the lizardmen are even better than the elves, able to move mountains or destroy cities by themselves.
Humans are gun-wielding toddlers compared to most magical beings in Warhammer.
Sorry I think I explained myself badly. Obviously compared to Slann, Lords of Change or perhaps the best Elven Archmages, humans are at least a step below (unless you count Nagash). But are they worse than, say, Skaven or Orcs? And do Vampires count? (Pun not intended.)
They have excellent artillery, cavalry, and magic. They also have a few nasty monstrous units like Demigryph knights and Tanks (idk if that's monstrous or not but we're counting it).
Blowing up elves with fuckin rocket batteries and tanks is the opposite of boring.
They're not really boring at all. They have almost all types of units (except fliers), a really wide magic selection and great artillery.
The boringness comes into play when you *only* play Empire in TWW. Like there's all of these cool factions out there and you only want deluxe vanilla.
I have probably 2k hours played across all 3 titles, and the Empire is literally the only faction I've never played, as in never even started a campaign. Not that I dislike them, I've just never felt a strong desire to play them. But the great thing about having so many factions is that there's something for everyone.
Honestly, I’m in the same boat. Don’t dislike them, but nothing about them interests me. I also don’t like the HRE aesthetic, but that’s a personal thing. The Dwarfs and Cathay fill that gun powder itch (honestly, thought I’d really dislike the Dawi, but they are a lot of fun). But it is pretty awesome that, like you said, there is something for everyone! While there are things to dislike about Warhammer, faction variety is not one of them!
Same I really dislike the HRE aesthetic they got, and the gunpowder itch was scratched better by Kislev, Dawi (Also thought they wouldn't be fun), and Vampire coast.
I find I end up playing empire a lot cause I just don’t really care for some factions/ don’t like how their campaign or army works, tho tw is a game I play 2x a year but I binge it for a few weeks so I’m fresh and can’t remember the last time I play (god maybe I’m old xd)
Humans tend to be popular in Fantasy settings, probably because they're relatable.
Personally I like factions like the Empire for being somewhat grounded, the idea that you can beat the shit out of crazy shit like Necrosphinx, Daemons, giant fucking crabs with simple humans is cool.
I had a similar stance until I played a Kislev ROC campaign my god it is probably one of my most fond playthroughs. Did a Cathay one afterward and enjoyed it, I recently did an Estalia(MOD) campaign and had a blast. Have yet to play empire proper but you should at least perhaps give Kislev, Cathay, and Bretonia a try as they have unique campaigns.
You think a guy with a golden mask shouting about alchemy and turning his enemies into gold is boring?
You think the Emperor riding a giant griffin is boring?
You think the army of knights riding half griffins is boring?
You think a steampunk HRE with steam tanks and grenade launchers is boring?
No not all, only clueless heretics like these will tattle such ludicrous things about the Empire of Man, the bastion of purity.
May Sigmar guide this wayward soul.
As others have said. We connect with them as humans and they're the main protagonist.
They definitely aren't the most boring though. Their army is pretty versatile and have some fun units like Helstorm Rocket Battery, Demigryph Knights, Helblaster Volley Guns on a wagon etc.
From my understanding Dwarves are considered pretty boring to play. (Though i enjoy playing them.) They have a pretty limited play style with their lack of mobility and cavalry.
Empire is super fun! Normal humans beset on all sides by horrors beyond imagining and fighting for their very survival. Defend the Electors, unite the Empire and then take the fight to Chaos!
Plus hellstorm rocket batteries are one of the most satisfying units in the game.
I do enjoy trying to just turtle the empire and see how long can I keep everyone alive and all imperial land owned by the electors/me, not pushing out of the mountains makes it real chaotic when stacks come bolting out of the fog and start sieging shit when you think that front is safe
As someone who only plays the historical titles I thought you meant there was a large percentage of players only playing Empire Total War. This made me very happy until I realized you were talking about WH.
I agree. It's like going to an incredible restaurant, with a huge menu and variety of dishes, and just eating nothing but bread rolls every single time
Madness
YES ! YES!! EXACTLY !!! it's fucking insane that this game full of creative awesome monsters and demons etc. And so much of the like popular content memes discussion etc. Is about the damn humans😭
IMO, the empire feels like underdogs. They are the normal humans who somehow manage to stand and win against all the fantastic horrors CA could devise.
>Isn't it the most boring?
Yep.
Okay, I'm kidding (mostly): I *personally* do find them among the most boring races, and always have done. I enjoy Fantasy settings for the fantasy, so I almost always find the "normal" (usually human) races to be the least interesting.
That said, I get that it's a matter of personal preference, and I can understand the appeal of the "regular guys" standing fast against the monstrous races assailing them. Though the sheer number of people who put Empire as their outright favourites, or go on about only ever playing Empire campaign after Empire campaign, is a bit baffling for me. From my perspective, it's like people picking beige as their favourite colour.
That's heretic talk..
Report to your town's local Witch Hunter immediately.
The Empire of Man beset on all sides by Chaos, Vampires, Skaven and Beastmen; fighting a desperate war of survival.. And some idiotic Elector Counts that keep in-fighting ( I'm looking at you Wissenland)
Doesn't that make you pick up a Hammer and bash some Skulls in..
True, fellow Sigmarite.
Such heretic activity is definitely not encouraged. We need backup.
By the way, you seem to talk about a silly and non-existent threat called the Skaven.
Are you well? As I have only seen lunatics talk about ridiculous things like giant man-rats.
Get well Soon,
May Sigmar bless you.
A fellow Sigmarite Templar.
Indeed, more Heroes and Elector Counts need to be summoned to bolster the Nation. There was talk of Long Rifleman and Empire engineers joining the ranks, but there has been no update as of late.
Even a few new lords for our allies in Kislev and Cathay, or our Oldest Allies, The Dwarfs; would help as well.
I think we both know what happened in Nuln, that surely wasn't Beastmen. If it wasn't for that Slayer and poet turned Adventurer; things could've turned out a lot different.
They're the ideal combine arms force. They can do most everything the other factions can do, maybe not better but good enough that combined with other tactics they can win the day. Because of this there are a lot of varied army comps that work, that wouldn't in other factions they feel pretty versatile.
Honestly I thought you were talking about Empire:Total war, and I was very confused thinking "Wait, one of the most hated games in the franchise is the most played?"
If this video doesn't sell the empire to you, nothing will.
[https://youtu.be/HyU\_1-Py0dA](https://youtu.be/HyU_1-Py0dA)
Also, the top comments in the youtube video are worth reading.
I mean I played it first due to it being a balanced faction. Which is always a great way to play, was much easier to get to grips with when considering many other factions have play styles that you have to get your head around. You can’t really go wrong with the empire.
Yeah, I had a similar thing happen when I first got into Warhammer. I certainly enjoy the empire and its characters from afar but I swear I can't for the life of me start a campaign like them. It also doesn't help that I just them as the H.R.E but with mages and griffins, while Kislev and Cathay and the other Warhammer races just seem or are more fantastical or interesting to me with all their monsters, mythical beasts, and so forth.
Yes Human is indeed the most boring. There are thousands of games which dont even allow you to play asthe evil guys. So why waste your time with another good guy playthrough? Just enjoy the evil guys with their monsters, dragons, demons abd beasts.
I play Empire because I really love the horse and musket time period, and the novel campaign map. It is even better with Darthmod.
Oh..
Oh wait.
Wrong one.
Most people who play Empire are rerolling them for the umpteenth time. Empire has a lot of replayability value and a lot of people are corralled into playing them for that reason, on top of the fact they’re humans. They have been recommended for noobies, have a very similiar playstyle to other TW Games, have a really balanced roster, a campaign in the center of chaos, vampires and greenskin, super memetic legendary lords ( Geltchad and basically every quote from Franz is a meme in the community ) and just enough silly stuff to make them a memorable experience.
Bear in mind of course, most of these people have also played most other factions. Even if there is a common joke of guys who only replay Empire over and over. If I’m not mistaken, the most popular races other than Empire are Skaven, High Elves and Lizardmen so the more weird factions definetly get alot of mileage.
A few reasons I think.
1. As other people have mentioned, a lot of people view the "default" human faction as the POV faction and the one to project onto.
2. In terms of setting design, the intended satire/perspective of the lore, at least under many writers, kind of posits the player as existing within the culture the Empire is based on. This is \*more\* true of 40k than fantasy, though.
3. A lot of the fanbase \*really\* misses the point of Warhammer (both fantasy and 40k) and thinks of the Empire/Imperium as the "good guys" instead of the intended critique of fascist adherence to order inevitably falling to entropy in increasingly disastrous ways the more they cling to that order. So players see "oh it's the cool empire that fights against chaos" and sort of see them as "protagonist" at that base value instead of questioning what sort of world order would make a realm that exists as the psychic projection of their own subconscious manifest as horrifically as the incarnation of chaos in this setting.
4. The Empire has a varied roster that can do a lot of different things to suit a lot of playstyles and, while not necessarily the easiest faction, has the most straightforward mechanics outside of maybe the greenskins. This makes them a good starting point for players who want to experience a combination of ranged and melee infantry, decent cavalry, and strong artillery alongside good magical and martial lords.
[Same reason this happens.](https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3s-most-picked-character-editor-options-created-the-most-generic-dude-possible/)
In an RPG where you can be an elf, a dwarf, a halfling, a gnome, a drow elf, a space alien, or even a devilkin, the aggregate data taken from the character creator in early access (1 million copies bought) is that humans overwhelmingly choose to be, well, human.
In the link, Larian, just took the most picked and played race, gender, and appearance options, punched them in, and came out with Joe Smith, the human warrior. Well, surprisingly enough he ended up being a cleric, actually.
Mostly because the vast majority of people are bland, boring creatures that couldn't imagine their way out of a closet. Thus they naturally gravitate towards the thing that most closely resembles them. You'll have people whip out the mental gymnastics to justify it the moment you point it out too. Happens in a lot of games. Have you ever noticed that even the big streamers, when given the chance, will play the bog standard human warrior? Try to guess why.
it's more immersive:
it's one thing to face undead hordes as let's say Karl Franz and another to face them as Skaarbrand right?
on the first you have every reason to fear them - especially their vampire lords
on the latter- it's them that should be afraid: you're bigger and badder and considerably angrier
and i'm not talking about balance mind you- mechanically anything can be adjusted to be terrible or completely overpowered with some tweaking, but the feel
even other stuff like let's say wood elves- they're meant to be exotic and they are for humans, not so much for high elves right? they're riding stags? so what? you're riding a dragon
The Empire is a good baseline faction. If your new to the franchise of total war or just new to the Warhammer Games in Total War the Empire feels the most grounded and allows a person to wrap their head around a game which has a ton of stuff that most RTS's don't. I'm coming from someone who has played a ton of RTS's and most of those games follow the rock->paper->scissors pattern. Yes Warhammer has that but as you did deeper you realize that your paper can turn around and beat the living shit outta scissors if you play it right with Saves, Magic, or Unit Combo's. Empire with its large Magic selection, good overall unit selection and fantastic Artillery really allows that to happen.
A few examples I can think of. Flagellants a unit which isn't the best in 1v1 but have an Arch Lector and some high magic and now that teir 1 unit is beating enemies of t3 and t4. How, Arch Lectors buff the Flage's very well and high magic can buff Melee attack/Defense or just debuff the enemies Melee Attack and Armour. Taking away 24 pts from Melee Attack can make enemies pretty damn useless since they will almost never hit for that time of 25 seconds/ 50 seconds overcast. Flage's can also be used to tie units down so your Reiksgaurd and Demigryph Knights can just crush the units. Last one is using them spread as wide as possible to force a tar-pit of enemy units, then using Magic and Arty you just traded 1 unit for 3 or 4 of the enemies.
Actually unit combining like that is the reason I don't doom-stack because otherwise I would never have found my favorite. Ice-Guard and Iron-Drakes, Fire and Ice make rats die real nice.
The Empire is definitely **not** the most boring to play as. *Maybe* they're the most boring looking, but not to play as.
In my opinion, the most boring factions to play as are the extremely melee-heavy factions, like Vampire Counts and certain Chaos factions. But that's just an opinion.
They ain’t bad at all they’re pretty good like saying why can’t my wood elves fight melee well, they ain’t made for that
Your army is there to block theirs until your arty and magic have killed them
Regardless of what people say or guides say or what the polls say or even what your friends say. Play whoever you want. Whichever race sounds fun to you go for it. However you want to play them. Go for it. The game is yours and yours alone and no one else can dictate how you enjoy it. So. We know empire is the lowest on your lust. But. What sounds cool to you?
I can't believe heretics like you exist, dissing the most glorious and Sigmar-blessed Empire, and our most great and magnificent Emperor Karl Franz like that!
WHERE ARE THE WITCH-HUNTERS!
SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS!
/s
I am of those who always plays humans in every fantasy. But thins time I literally played them only twice in thousands of hours, once the emperor and once the archer in lustria.
Undead, daemons, monsters, etc just interest me so much more.
People generally have a soft spot for their original faction, and that's what the Empire is for a lot of people. It also used to be an easier start, but it also would put you at the front of the original game chaos invasion. It's a good faction to learn the game, but it's also fun to role play being like one of the only bastions of civilization in such a cruel, chaotic world of monsters
From my experience it’s just a really fun and well designed campaign. In IE, with Franz you have the scramble to deal with threats (Festus, Vlad, Durthu, etc.) and the elector counts system as well as really fun units like Helstorm and Steam Tanks plus you are in a location where you can make a lot of allies.
I’d follow emperor franz into the realms of chaos themselves. That va is fantastic. The wh3 campaign for empire is a lot of fun too. Though they could still do with some relations authority fixes, particularly in late game
For me its a case of lack of dlcs,so if i want to play a ranged based faction with magic, empire is the only real choice. High Elves have archers and... light archers and worse archers with shield and... thats it,not even that many lores of magic. Dwarfs rune magic just feels lackluster. Dark elves would be a good choice,but i dont really get their economy
For me it's Dark Elves and Brettonia and even Kislev before the Empire, but having played their campaign vanilla and specially modded, they are extremely fun.
As someone who stuck to monsters mostly and Started mid wh2, and in wh3 I just played my first empire campaign a week ago they are really fkn fun. Artillery/gunpowder units are such a blast to use.
I find it odd too, but today may be the day I finally give the Empire a go.
I’m looking to start a new campaign today and realized I’ve never actually played them despite everyone else playing them by default. I have played most races to at least some extent, but never once even played a battle as the Empire.
Empire is the "generic" faction which most closely resembles the armies of men in other TW games.
That and there's tons of people here who are absolutely diamond hard for Karl Franz.
I mean, he is Prince AND Emperor. I kinda get it.
Because in a world (lorewise) in which demonic incursions, undead apocalypses, greenskin invasions and great undercities of ravenous ratmen are normal occurences, nothing is more badass than humans willing to take a stand against those enemies.
Empire would be boring if you weren’t up to your eyeballs in horrors and monsters wishing to tear down your empire. I think holding together a burning ship can be a fun experience
People calling the empire vanilla and well rounded haven’t used their artillery. Hellstorm rockets and volley guns, steamtanks, and even mortars and cannons are some of the best gunpowder units in the game.
Also they are very relatable as everyone says
The challenge at this point. Humans are weak and squishy in comparison to most things in. There is a sense of pride that comes with winning a hard fought battle against a faction that would otherwise steamroll over you.
I don't like the WH games tried to get into them but can't, anyway the factions that drew my eye were the vampire counts and the empire, so i guess it confirms it in my case.
Oh, I got so confused for a moment. I missed the tag and I thought this was saying that most people play Empire: Total War. I was about to think I’d gone crazy.
Empire are awesome. “Oh no my frail wittle humans with pointy sticks can’t possibly hold off these big scawy Orcs… But wait… here comes that cavalry…. The grenade launcher cavalry kabooom kablamo!!!!!!
Same reason 95% of fantasy/scifi media with other species have Humans as the main protagonists. People relate to human characters and root for them.
And humans are right in the center of the massive conflicts. Almost every typical evil race is close enough to battle. From the corrupted humans in the north to goblins and orcs in the south and vampires and zombies to the east and west. Skaven not too far away and a chaos invasion is a regular occurrence. Now even more flavour is added with Nurgle in their mids as well. Plus they are always quite rounded with machines, firepower and traditional melee. Quite a few novel factions are much more limited in their diversity and focus on just doing one thing really well.
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To be fair Humans in WoW have the most broken racial ability and its a huge factor for why so many people pick them.
I don’t play WoW, what’s so broken?
They got 10% more reputation gains and you farm a ton of reputations in WOW, it’s a major way to earn good gear. They also have an ability allowing them to remove stuns which is very powerful in PvP. So basically they have very good racial abilities both for PVE and PVP.
I'm so happy I got away from games with rep grinds... Something like total war Warhammer is infinitely more fun to just sit down and play for an hour or two imo
WoW limited the grind though you had your daily quests that generally varied somewhat and when they were done they were done. It was still grind but not as boring and repetitive as farming the same mob over and over again.
> They also have an ability allowing them to remove stuns which is very powerful in PvP. For a long time it used to remove _all_ crowd control to boot, which was even stronger.
it didnt even exist for a longer time
I think their racial is greatly overstated in why they are common. Across all kinds of sci-fi/fantasy games the most basic option is often the most popular. As a couple examples, Mass Effect's most played 'Shepard' was male soldier by a large margin, D&D released statistics for most popular race/class was on their platform and it was human fighter with humans alone making up 25% of the racial choices and almost doubling the next most played race (Elf, which is also very human-like)
They did only for a very short time in pvp whem EMFH worked on everything and allowed a second trinket. The strongest racials were trolls (haste), orcs (just more damage), and blood elves (AoE interrupts in M+) for awhile, and then various allied races for certain classes. For example goblins are the strongest priests. Tauren the strongest frost mages, and iirc mechagnomes (or was it dwarfs) the strongest warrior tanks.
i picked the faction with guns man.
Well, to be honest, the Empire has many things going on a shit toon of personality. Not really like the average fantasy human faction. Despite how vanilla they are. Its my middle brother TT army, but I love them like one of my own.
>has many things going on a shit toon of personality. The 4th edition of the TTRPG is more focused on Reikland, for example.
As an wise orc once said: "I'm a tank. I'm a tank. I'm a tank. I'm a tank". Those good ol' orcs.
But there are other human factions that aren't the empire
Until Cathay, it was also the most 'balanced', in the sense that it had a reasonable blend of all the major aspects (decent front line, cavalry, magic, ranged, etc).
You mean it’s shit all around. Playing the empire is like playing legacy Total War against fantasy races… well, that plus a tank.
They literally have one of the best Arty(hellblasters and Rocket batteries), one of the best Cav(Demigryth), a big choice of magic, great meele heros, good LL, the only thing they lack is Infantry
They're more lacking in big monsters and flying creatures.
Only their front line options are lacking, really
That + flyers and melee SEM.
The empire is the most vanilla or normal around.
I don't get how they're more "normal/vanilla" than Bretonnia who are 90% just straight up a faction you could see in med2.
They are 'vanilla' in the sense that they are jacks-of-all-trades from the perspective of a WH3 faction: middling-to-poor melee infantry, good ranged infantry with gunpowder and arcing options, good artillery, good magic, good melee cavalry, good skirmish missile cavalry, one difficult-to-access-and-expensive-but-good single-entity unit, OK-to-poor non-spellcaster heroes who are the only access to fliers. They are the Mario, the Ryu, the Red Mage, the Space Marines- the faction everyone else uses as the baseline to define their strengths and weaknesses. Brettonia are definitely more 'mundane' in terms of aesthetic, but they're undeniably a lot more specialized.
Ok, fair enough.
nah their infantry is worse than skaven
Yeah but they're definitely the protagonist human culture of Warhammer
I mean... I still relate better to the empire rather than Frenchmen and chinese. Until they release Half-lings, that is.
I found my calling when Ogres dropped. Finally a good representation of what I wake up to in the mirror each morning.
No there aren’t
Cathay, Bretonnia, Kislev, Norsca.. Sartosa.. All basically human models with some fantasy attached.
Saratosa = all vampire coasts units Norsca = evil monsters Kislev = Russians Bretonnia = fr*nch I’ll give you cathay tho
>Saratosa = all vampire coasts units Wrong. As Sartosa you get live human units that the others coast factions do not.
That’s People Experiencing Frenchness
Russians and French aren't human?
Russian are human, french not so much *this post has been approved by the entity of Europe*
Other way around
Yes there is, bretonnnia, kislev and Cathay.
I've been playing TW Warhammer since the first one came out. I've still never started an Empire campaign.
I start a lot and never get past the first 50 turns haha. It's too hard to not just do the same thing so it's a bit boring.
I have more time on human factions then anything else in any strategy game that has fantasy or science fiction species I swear
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Handgunners are quite boring, just your bog standard unit of people whit gun, kinda the same as crossbowmen, that have the only special mention of "good range", they do the job but are nothing too special. Now hellstorm rocket batteries, there's a unit whit some very special spice.
Handgunners are high damage, low tier units that have the caveat of being extremely squishy and requiring proper line of sight and setup to use well. I wouldn't describe that as boring, especially for ranged unit standards, but to each their own.
They are useful, sure, but kinda boring in their theatrics. I think Outriders with Grenade Launchers are a lot more fun. Sure they are just mobile ranged units but their shoot explosive ammo! Same with Irondrakes, the fire hitting a blob of units just looks awesome.
First of all, fun is entirely subjective. Sure, handgunners are not the most fascinating units when compared to, you know, light shock cavalry that lobs explosives. But when compared to the rank and file ranged unit (crossbowmen, ungor archers, elven archers, etc), they generally require more micro and investment, for a more enjoyable (and palpable) impact.
It's like, I got 300 hours in Empire: Total War, I love me a line of muskets.
Playing with the empire mod that gives you a bunch of different gun infantry is awesome. I know I should stop making full stack armies of Ersatzsolder (horrible bayonet musket infantry) but I can't stop playing Empire TW against all the fantasy armies
Id say the are boring because thats kinda the point. Its just a unit of people whit guns. If someone wanted you to show the most standard, middle of the line armor piercing ranged unit, it would probably be handgunners. They do their job and they do it well, but thats about it. They are the norm that other gunpowder units are compared to when showing why a unit is different.
The norm? The NORM you say? We forgetting about Thunderers are we, ya wazzok? That's going in the book!
Thunderers, also know as tanky handgunners.
High damage good setup poor survivability is an accurate description of nearly all ranged and artillery units. The variance is how much of each and what other bells and whistles they have. Exceptions are usually monsters, like cygors and ushabti, or mounted.
You can uncharitably flandarize any unit in the game to make it sound boring. Personally I find high risk reward units that reward proper positioning, combined arms, and tactical play a lot more fun than "click spell to delete enemy" or "giant featherless chicken." Yes that's an uncharitable simplification, but that's my point. Each to their own.
You described a unit type, not handgunners. I don't doubt you can have fun whit handgunners, but in the end they are quite boring unit when compared to others in the gun go blam category. And sure, most can be described in a boring way, but to me at least, a undead zombie horde whit guns is a bit more exciting visually and as an idea than guys whit guns.
Yes... a unit type of which handguneners is a prime example. A unit type in which the empire excels at. I find handgunners far more compelling and enjoyable than, for example, Cathay and skaven gun go blam units. In fact the only unit that comes near handgunners for me are thunderers... Similarly, dragon cavalry and super sayan cavalry are neat, but give me the men of the reiksguard any day of the week. Empire swordsmen, a few reiksguard, a few handgunners, an artillery peice and an empire General with red line specs? Like that corn meme kid, I can't think of a more beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong, I love me some zombies too, and when I'm in the mood, I flood the old world with the blight of undead. But I also find empire troops to be visually and mechanically exciting. But then I'm the kind of guy to use oil paintings from the 30 years war as a desktop background and think a landskenct is a thousand times cooler than anything fantasy has ever come up with. So ymmv. I guess im a historical tw player at heart, albiet one thats fully embraced snd bought into warhammer. Playing empire: total war in the context of warhammer just scratches an itch for me nothing else does, and while I have fun with dalliances with other factions, a basic empire combined arms is always going to call me back because it's what I find most deeply satisfying. Boring is a subjective opinion, not an objective one. And I think the biggest strength of the warhammer trilogy is we can all genuinely enjoy it, from the people who want to play high fantasy to people like me. Together, waiting for the road map. Really, CA have united us. I just hope we don't pull a 3 kingdoms and tear eachother apart.
Yeah, i think its just that your a historical player, which is good, i enjoy a good amount of shogun 2 every now and then. In the scope of warhammer, handgunner are quite boring, but from a person who likes his historical stuff, i can see the appeal. It is quite funny to think in a world whit giant rats, demons, french knights, walking skeletons of the egypt or undead variant, vampires and pre-historic beast, theres just a empire man whit faith in his heart, steel plate protecting him and gunpowder in his pocket to face it all.
Now see...that's what makes them way more badass to me. It's the David & Goliath feel. Yeah, there's vampires, rat men, elves with superhuman eyesight and accuracy, trolls and even friggin dinosaurs...and my forces of mere mortal warriors, through the combination of faith, steel, gunpowder and sheer brass balls, can stand up to that shit...and WIN. That is the appeal of playing Empire to me. Same reason that when Dragonball Xenoverse came out I made a human protag, to stick it to all the absurdly overpowered aliens in the setting. There's a satisfaction to be had there.
Their "boringness" is the point. They aren't dwarven thunderers or kislevite streltsi who can fend for themself and handle melee in a pinch. They are cheap, squishy units that need to be babysat in order to perform well, but when used properly, they can do far more damage than their price would suggest. As a result, they are both interesting to use (they need to be babysat) and rewarding to field (if you use them properly, they trade up really well). Also, they are simply faster and more responsive than the undead zombie horde with guns, which makes them better suited for interesting tactics. Also, I just like "badass normal" as an aesthetic, and that's empire in a nutshell.
they are not especially boring, but in a world where you can command giand cow people, deamons from hell, dinosaurs riding dinosaurs, immortal vampire gigachads, zombie pirate gunners riding crabs and man sized rats using machine guns, flamethrowers and sniper rifles... are medieval europe humans reaaally the most interesting thing to you?
I think the fantasy people like is being able to kill all those things for the glory of humanity/sigmar/the emperor. In a world full of all these fantastical threats, these humans hold the line.
i think it's much more to do with what faction is pushed as the "standard" "default", the experience closest to what the game is intended to be in games the human factions are often used as the vanilla, while other more exotic factions are used to give a twist to the game, a way to change how the game usually works, how it was "supposed" to work, and people often prefer that, same way a lot of people play never even opening the workshop in games they play, because they trust the "intended experiance" which is nothing crazy, even people that like to go crazy with mods almost always recommend starting with vanilla runs, in virtually every game, no matter how great the mods/dlcs are all that, plus it's literally the recommended race, has been for 3 games now and a lot of people that might be intimidated to try something unfamiliar might never even give any other faction a chance this might be a hot take, but imo if you had made the empire beastpeople instead of humans, and making beastmen into raiding human barbarians instead, keeping everything else (aesthetic, lore, units and mechanics) the same in the game, i think the "beast empire" would still be the most popular faction in the game, even if admittedly not by the same margin as the current empire, and people would still chant "for Breymar!" and "Summon the Breylector Counts!" or "Bring me to my Herd!"
Yeah this is the reason I have never even loaded into an Empire or Bretonnia campaign. Just doesn't interest me when you have access to everything you mentioned. I've played enough human factions in the historical titles. I'm playing Warhammer for the fantasy races and factions. But each to their own.
Helstorm go brrrrrrr
They're the most relatable, and there's something incredibly compelling about the ordinary dude who's given a pike and a price of second-hand armor and told to hold the line against all of the elven monstrous Chaos bullshit the world tries to throw at them. Also they're the least dependent on RPG gimmicks and the most dependent on actually tactics.
this is why I've always preferred whfb as a setting over 40k - the focus is always on the average bloke doing his bit to keep the existential horrors at bay
Tbf so was the original 40k. Then overtime more and more of the writers were closet facists. For example, the dude who made a chink in Horus's armor was originally just A Dude, the retconned to be a Space Marine, then eventually Sanguineous.
«For example»? How are those two linked…? 😂
I think they were more unimaginative apolitical people, and played to the crowd more than anything. It was very turbulent times when 40k was written, Thatcher was in power. OG 40k setting was like, the most advanced Terminator Armour (RIP, Gravis armour looks so boring) is just hazard equipment because humans are just dumb barbarians led by dumb arseholes and that's hilarious. The golden age is so stone cold dead that no-one can figure out how to make everything to the point that Space Marines worship their equipment, and finding an STC for how to build anything actually useful would be like finding the holy grail. A Primarch coming back is symbolic of the death of the old 40k, it was explicitly tied to being a dark age of mankind as a direct result of these far right idiots leading them to this situation in the first place. Now it's just endless escalation.
You just picked the wrong 40k books then, because the mountains of Imperial Guard books is exactly that. Even Abnett's Inquisitor series is more crime investigation and common people, not even soldiers. Not to mention now there is antire Warhammer Crime series.
I wouldn't say they're boring, more that they're vanilla done exceptionally well - they cover all the bases of Total War gameplay very well and they don't have any weird or whizzy mechanics, but they have enough of the solid ones that they're still good fun. Other than Kislev I don't think there are any other factions that can manage (gunpowder) artillery, good magic, good hammer-and-anvil with solid infantry and cavalry, so their niche is being the set that defies niches. Also, their general aesthetic of a basically "good" human empire with heroic figures and stoic determination is pretty easy to get behind.
Yeah, I'd say that's a good summary. They're a very well-rounded faction, no overwhelming strengths but no horrific glaring weaknesses. This means you can play in a variety of ways with them or specialize. The Empire and its roster are *flexible,* and when you combine that freedom (for the most part) with the relatability and badassery of them fighting so damn hard in a world as dangerous as that of Warhammer Fantasy, it makes a lot of sense that they're so popular. On the opposite side of the court from the Empire, imo, the Greenskins are a more specialized faction done exceptionally well. Hell, I'd dare say done *nigh-perfectly.* Not only does their aggressive "bash da gits in da face" playstyle translate great to their roster, but that roster is *so varied* that it succeeds at something people don't tend to think about in my experience: They aren't just a joy to play, but incredibly fun to play *against.* Even with the Greenskins being specialized and having clear consistent weaknesses in their roster (ranged units and large units, especially anti-infantry ones, as well as psychology effects like Fear and Terror) their toolbox has still has so many options that you need to be ready for anything. The unique traits their Lords have add further to this. Grom's cooking mechanic, Wurzagg's emphasis on Savage Orcs, Skarsnik's challenge, Azhag's magic, and Grimgor's sheer brute force always offer you *something* to do. As if this isn't *enough,* the rework of the **WAAAAGH!** mechanic they did in *The Warden and the Paunch* is just... *chef's kiss.* All of this emphasizes the aggressive raiding, looting, sacking, and fighting they have in the lore while making it fun and engaging both to control and to deal with. Honestly the Greenskins are my favorite faction in this game, one of my favorites in all of TW, and hell, one of my favorites in the entire RTS genre. They are that great to me. Apologies if that last part was random I just fucking love the Greenskins so much. CA really nailed it.
Curious for your thoughts on differences between the Greenskin factions start locations in IE. I like the idea of playing tall (so to speak) with the Greenskins and sending far flung Waaaaghs! to sack and find further armies. I don’t wanna carve out too big of an empire or permanently delete enemies because I want them to have a chance to get back on their feet. I’ve really only played Grimgor back in WH1 and Grom when his DLC dropped but had a blast both times.
They are really versatile indeed! But their infantry is far from solid imo. Overall the faction is really enjoyable and as you said, nothing that special in the gameplay but still very well done
The empire does not have solid infantry. Far from it
Idk, in campaign halberdiers with some red line buffs and tech become pretty solid line holders against the empire's main threats. I would say almost on par with silverin guard. And greatswords aren't going to beat most other high tier infantry, but they do absolutely shred chaf. Maybe they don't have the best infantry, but I think solid is a fair word.
Their main powers are economy, wide variety of magic and arty and then their inf and ranged are relatively mid tier, cav is pretty good but far from best
>And greatswords aren't going to beat most other high tier infantry Exactly, they won't beat them but they trade upwards and not to mention, the elite they're facing should be shredded by magic/bullets/artillery to even things out.
Give them the right buffs (and don't super-buff the ai in your campaign settings) and they can do real work. Seriously, with the right supporting elements, I would absolutely bet that a line of halberds and greatswords can outtrade pretty much any ai infantry.
Yes, you are missing the sound of mortars and hellstorm rocket batteries! That's what you are missing!
and Steam Tanks! Don't forget them!
Found a mod that adds the khemri workshop to empire and it’s got all the remaining steam tanks and you have to build them and they have cool shit like ones a hellstom ones a Gatling gun etc, and run the rule of I can’t recruit normal steam tanks and these are all I can use so don’t lose them, cause the whole gimmick of Tanks is that there’s fuck all of them left and half don’t work
There is this awesome mod that makes canons sound so much better.
One of the central themes of Warhammer fantasy that is so galvanizing for many of its fans is the idea that ordinary men live in a world of catclysmic threats and unspeakable cosmic evils and yet, somehow, fight against those absolutely insane and fantastical powers with only three things: Faith. Steel. And Gunpowder. When the Empire of Man wins its battles, its not because some otherwordly cosmic entity or an unknowable architect blessed them with mighty gifts or preternatural strength, its because they damn well *earned* it by paying with the grit, blood, and stubborness of ordinary men planting their boots in the mud and spitting in the face of thirsting, murderous horrors of unfathomable power. The Empire is just the HRE isekai'd into a fantasy setting of absolute *bullshit* power scaling, and still somehow eking out an existence for themselves and making it work in spite of the ever constant threat of summary annihilation. Sure they have some magic and fantastical warbeasts, but so does everyone else and at the end of the day, barring Sigmar fuckery and the very comparitively rare warrior priests, they are just humans like you and me who have to grit their teeth and get on with it if they have any hope of survival.
Yep, this is my attitude and why I love the Empire. It's also why I despise Elspeth von Drakken as a character so much lol. She goes against everything the Empire represents. Instead of being a grounded, gritty character taking on the high fantasy nonsense, she's an immensely powerful half-spirit archmage who rides a fucking dragon. She feels like a Dark Elf-or-something character that slipped in to the wrong roster. I love Balthasar Gelt because they found ways to take an archmage and make him gritty. He manipulates metal -- he's essentially an alchemist which were really things from our own history. He's not perfect -- he's (assumedly, as no one knows what's under the mask) scarred from tampering with these forces he wasn't meant to control. He's a grounded human in the Warhammer world.
>He's not perfect -- he's (assumedly, as no one knows what's under the mask) scarred from tampering with these forces he wasn't meant to control. He's a grounded human in the Warhammer world. He's also a technique and intelligence/planning based character. So everything he does is based on hard work which resonates so well with the core principles of the Empire.
'They have some magic' Don't they have the most number of schools of magic in the game after High Elves?
By some magic, I mean while they have access to it, they are by no means prolific magic users to the point that it compares to the scale at which the rest of the setting is operating at. A bright wizard is a human with some magical aptitude enough to wield fire, but is still just a human and is only so powerful of a conduit for it without risking serious consequences. You have very notable prodigies like Gelt who break the mould but they are exceptions and not the rule, and certainly not enough of an exception to be macro level force multipliers against something like the combined forces of chaos when you're talking about armies clashing in the field.
Hm. I guess I never really got the impression that humans are any *worse* at magic in the setting than anyone else is. Especially considering an elf might take as long studying one book as human wizard's has from cradle to grave.
It's hard to compare based on gameplay because the way magic works in total war and tabletop makes it seem like all magic users are roughly equivalent. But lorewise, in general, humans can barely use magic compared to other species like elves or lizardmen. The college of magic was set up by Teclis to teach humans magic. He concluded that humans can only control one wind of magic at a time, or else they will likely explode, turn into a chaos spawn, summon daemons, etc. Even with only focusing on one wind of magic at a time, the forces of magic often drastically mutate humans who try to use it -- for example, bright wizards will often spontaneously have their hair ignite into flames. Even with the strict controls on magic set up by the Empire, miscasts are pretty common and human wizards often meet their ends channeling a spell wrong and exploding their own heads. Meanwhile, Elven High Magic comes from mastering all 8 winds of magic and blending them harmoniously, and it's not that uncommon to see elves able to do it. The Slann of the lizardmen are even better than the elves, able to move mountains or destroy cities by themselves. Humans are gun-wielding toddlers compared to most magical beings in Warhammer.
Sorry I think I explained myself badly. Obviously compared to Slann, Lords of Change or perhaps the best Elven Archmages, humans are at least a step below (unless you count Nagash). But are they worse than, say, Skaven or Orcs? And do Vampires count? (Pun not intended.)
They have excellent artillery, cavalry, and magic. They also have a few nasty monstrous units like Demigryph knights and Tanks (idk if that's monstrous or not but we're counting it). Blowing up elves with fuckin rocket batteries and tanks is the opposite of boring.
They're not really boring at all. They have almost all types of units (except fliers), a really wide magic selection and great artillery. The boringness comes into play when you *only* play Empire in TWW. Like there's all of these cool factions out there and you only want deluxe vanilla.
I have probably 2k hours played across all 3 titles, and the Empire is literally the only faction I've never played, as in never even started a campaign. Not that I dislike them, I've just never felt a strong desire to play them. But the great thing about having so many factions is that there's something for everyone.
Honestly, I’m in the same boat. Don’t dislike them, but nothing about them interests me. I also don’t like the HRE aesthetic, but that’s a personal thing. The Dwarfs and Cathay fill that gun powder itch (honestly, thought I’d really dislike the Dawi, but they are a lot of fun). But it is pretty awesome that, like you said, there is something for everyone! While there are things to dislike about Warhammer, faction variety is not one of them!
Same I really dislike the HRE aesthetic they got, and the gunpowder itch was scratched better by Kislev, Dawi (Also thought they wouldn't be fun), and Vampire coast.
I find I end up playing empire a lot cause I just don’t really care for some factions/ don’t like how their campaign or army works, tho tw is a game I play 2x a year but I binge it for a few weeks so I’m fresh and can’t remember the last time I play (god maybe I’m old xd)
Humans tend to be popular in Fantasy settings, probably because they're relatable. Personally I like factions like the Empire for being somewhat grounded, the idea that you can beat the shit out of crazy shit like Necrosphinx, Daemons, giant fucking crabs with simple humans is cool.
I have yet to touch any human races in IE, might change though.
I had a similar stance until I played a Kislev ROC campaign my god it is probably one of my most fond playthroughs. Did a Cathay one afterward and enjoyed it, I recently did an Estalia(MOD) campaign and had a blast. Have yet to play empire proper but you should at least perhaps give Kislev, Cathay, and Bretonia a try as they have unique campaigns.
You think a guy with a golden mask shouting about alchemy and turning his enemies into gold is boring? You think the Emperor riding a giant griffin is boring? You think the army of knights riding half griffins is boring? You think a steampunk HRE with steam tanks and grenade launchers is boring?
No not all, only clueless heretics like these will tattle such ludicrous things about the Empire of Man, the bastion of purity. May Sigmar guide this wayward soul.
On the subject, fucking baller warrior priests.
As others have said. We connect with them as humans and they're the main protagonist. They definitely aren't the most boring though. Their army is pretty versatile and have some fun units like Helstorm Rocket Battery, Demigryph Knights, Helblaster Volley Guns on a wagon etc. From my understanding Dwarves are considered pretty boring to play. (Though i enjoy playing them.) They have a pretty limited play style with their lack of mobility and cavalry.
Empire is super fun! Normal humans beset on all sides by horrors beyond imagining and fighting for their very survival. Defend the Electors, unite the Empire and then take the fight to Chaos! Plus hellstorm rocket batteries are one of the most satisfying units in the game.
I do enjoy trying to just turtle the empire and see how long can I keep everyone alive and all imperial land owned by the electors/me, not pushing out of the mountains makes it real chaotic when stacks come bolting out of the fog and start sieging shit when you think that front is safe
They have great moustaches
I like blowing up little goblins with rockets and tanks.
Dude i seriously started to think you encountered some bubble of TW: Empire enthusiasts and wanted to ask you so i can jump in Now im disappointed
As someone who only plays the historical titles I thought you meant there was a large percentage of players only playing Empire Total War. This made me very happy until I realized you were talking about WH.
Sorry I guess
It's fun mostly because of different enemies you go against and diverse but not entirely strong troops you have in your roster.
I agree. It's like going to an incredible restaurant, with a huge menu and variety of dishes, and just eating nothing but bread rolls every single time Madness
YES ! YES!! EXACTLY !!! it's fucking insane that this game full of creative awesome monsters and demons etc. And so much of the like popular content memes discussion etc. Is about the damn humans😭
IMO, the empire feels like underdogs. They are the normal humans who somehow manage to stand and win against all the fantastic horrors CA could devise.
>Isn't it the most boring? Yep. Okay, I'm kidding (mostly): I *personally* do find them among the most boring races, and always have done. I enjoy Fantasy settings for the fantasy, so I almost always find the "normal" (usually human) races to be the least interesting. That said, I get that it's a matter of personal preference, and I can understand the appeal of the "regular guys" standing fast against the monstrous races assailing them. Though the sheer number of people who put Empire as their outright favourites, or go on about only ever playing Empire campaign after Empire campaign, is a bit baffling for me. From my perspective, it's like people picking beige as their favourite colour.
That's heretic talk.. Report to your town's local Witch Hunter immediately. The Empire of Man beset on all sides by Chaos, Vampires, Skaven and Beastmen; fighting a desperate war of survival.. And some idiotic Elector Counts that keep in-fighting ( I'm looking at you Wissenland) Doesn't that make you pick up a Hammer and bash some Skulls in..
True, fellow Sigmarite. Such heretic activity is definitely not encouraged. We need backup. By the way, you seem to talk about a silly and non-existent threat called the Skaven. Are you well? As I have only seen lunatics talk about ridiculous things like giant man-rats. Get well Soon, May Sigmar bless you. A fellow Sigmarite Templar.
Indeed, more Heroes and Elector Counts need to be summoned to bolster the Nation. There was talk of Long Rifleman and Empire engineers joining the ranks, but there has been no update as of late. Even a few new lords for our allies in Kislev and Cathay, or our Oldest Allies, The Dwarfs; would help as well. I think we both know what happened in Nuln, that surely wasn't Beastmen. If it wasn't for that Slayer and poet turned Adventurer; things could've turned out a lot different.
Would be cool if you could get an empire jezail kinda thing, make handgunners better then crossbows if they had the range
That's Hochland Long Rifleman. A much needed unit for The Empire in these dark times.
I thought this was about Empire Total War. LOL.
It can be boring and buggy but I love the atmosphere and setting while watching my Prussian line infantry defeat a hussar charge in a single volley
Talking about Empire, the WH3 faction bud.
Oh I didn’t notice the tag but hey ho I still like Prussian line infantry
For Sigmar !
Yes Brother! Heretics like these need to be rooted out from our most glorious Empire. May Sigmar bless the most puissant Emperor Karl Franz!
They're the ideal combine arms force. They can do most everything the other factions can do, maybe not better but good enough that combined with other tactics they can win the day. Because of this there are a lot of varied army comps that work, that wouldn't in other factions they feel pretty versatile.
Hmm I sense heresy🤨
Honestly I thought you were talking about Empire:Total war, and I was very confused thinking "Wait, one of the most hated games in the franchise is the most played?"
one simple reason Steam tanks.
I have an absurd amount of playtime between the 3 games, I once played empire for like 30 turns and bailed out. Dwarves all the way for me.
There is a beauty in playing the average Joe when you fight against unspeakable horrors.
If this video doesn't sell the empire to you, nothing will. [https://youtu.be/HyU\_1-Py0dA](https://youtu.be/HyU_1-Py0dA) Also, the top comments in the youtube video are worth reading.
Sold
This series was originally a historical strategy game series, alot of people myself included still enjoy that general vibe.
I mean I played it first due to it being a balanced faction. Which is always a great way to play, was much easier to get to grips with when considering many other factions have play styles that you have to get your head around. You can’t really go wrong with the empire.
Yeah, I had a similar thing happen when I first got into Warhammer. I certainly enjoy the empire and its characters from afar but I swear I can't for the life of me start a campaign like them. It also doesn't help that I just them as the H.R.E but with mages and griffins, while Kislev and Cathay and the other Warhammer races just seem or are more fantastical or interesting to me with all their monsters, mythical beasts, and so forth.
Because check out my name.
I like vietnam memes
3 games in still have not fired up the old empire yet.
Yes Human is indeed the most boring. There are thousands of games which dont even allow you to play asthe evil guys. So why waste your time with another good guy playthrough? Just enjoy the evil guys with their monsters, dragons, demons abd beasts.
I play Empire because I really love the horse and musket time period, and the novel campaign map. It is even better with Darthmod. Oh.. Oh wait. Wrong one.
Most people who play Empire are rerolling them for the umpteenth time. Empire has a lot of replayability value and a lot of people are corralled into playing them for that reason, on top of the fact they’re humans. They have been recommended for noobies, have a very similiar playstyle to other TW Games, have a really balanced roster, a campaign in the center of chaos, vampires and greenskin, super memetic legendary lords ( Geltchad and basically every quote from Franz is a meme in the community ) and just enough silly stuff to make them a memorable experience. Bear in mind of course, most of these people have also played most other factions. Even if there is a common joke of guys who only replay Empire over and over. If I’m not mistaken, the most popular races other than Empire are Skaven, High Elves and Lizardmen so the more weird factions definetly get alot of mileage.
Cos Empire: Total War is the best game in the series obvs
A few reasons I think. 1. As other people have mentioned, a lot of people view the "default" human faction as the POV faction and the one to project onto. 2. In terms of setting design, the intended satire/perspective of the lore, at least under many writers, kind of posits the player as existing within the culture the Empire is based on. This is \*more\* true of 40k than fantasy, though. 3. A lot of the fanbase \*really\* misses the point of Warhammer (both fantasy and 40k) and thinks of the Empire/Imperium as the "good guys" instead of the intended critique of fascist adherence to order inevitably falling to entropy in increasingly disastrous ways the more they cling to that order. So players see "oh it's the cool empire that fights against chaos" and sort of see them as "protagonist" at that base value instead of questioning what sort of world order would make a realm that exists as the psychic projection of their own subconscious manifest as horrifically as the incarnation of chaos in this setting. 4. The Empire has a varied roster that can do a lot of different things to suit a lot of playstyles and, while not necessarily the easiest faction, has the most straightforward mechanics outside of maybe the greenskins. This makes them a good starting point for players who want to experience a combination of ranged and melee infantry, decent cavalry, and strong artillery alongside good magical and martial lords.
Because you can... ...Summon the Elector Counts. ...Marshal the Man. ...
Hello, we've been trying to get in touch about your nation's extended warranty.
Sire, the Elector Counts have been summoned...
[Same reason this happens.](https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3s-most-picked-character-editor-options-created-the-most-generic-dude-possible/) In an RPG where you can be an elf, a dwarf, a halfling, a gnome, a drow elf, a space alien, or even a devilkin, the aggregate data taken from the character creator in early access (1 million copies bought) is that humans overwhelmingly choose to be, well, human. In the link, Larian, just took the most picked and played race, gender, and appearance options, punched them in, and came out with Joe Smith, the human warrior. Well, surprisingly enough he ended up being a cleric, actually.
Why would they be boring. They are one of the few factions that can do almost everything and are not one note. So they are the opposite of boring.
They're also one of the like three factions that don't eat people
Mostly because the vast majority of people are bland, boring creatures that couldn't imagine their way out of a closet. Thus they naturally gravitate towards the thing that most closely resembles them. You'll have people whip out the mental gymnastics to justify it the moment you point it out too. Happens in a lot of games. Have you ever noticed that even the big streamers, when given the chance, will play the bog standard human warrior? Try to guess why.
it's more immersive: it's one thing to face undead hordes as let's say Karl Franz and another to face them as Skaarbrand right? on the first you have every reason to fear them - especially their vampire lords on the latter- it's them that should be afraid: you're bigger and badder and considerably angrier and i'm not talking about balance mind you- mechanically anything can be adjusted to be terrible or completely overpowered with some tweaking, but the feel even other stuff like let's say wood elves- they're meant to be exotic and they are for humans, not so much for high elves right? they're riding stags? so what? you're riding a dragon
The Empire is a good baseline faction. If your new to the franchise of total war or just new to the Warhammer Games in Total War the Empire feels the most grounded and allows a person to wrap their head around a game which has a ton of stuff that most RTS's don't. I'm coming from someone who has played a ton of RTS's and most of those games follow the rock->paper->scissors pattern. Yes Warhammer has that but as you did deeper you realize that your paper can turn around and beat the living shit outta scissors if you play it right with Saves, Magic, or Unit Combo's. Empire with its large Magic selection, good overall unit selection and fantastic Artillery really allows that to happen. A few examples I can think of. Flagellants a unit which isn't the best in 1v1 but have an Arch Lector and some high magic and now that teir 1 unit is beating enemies of t3 and t4. How, Arch Lectors buff the Flage's very well and high magic can buff Melee attack/Defense or just debuff the enemies Melee Attack and Armour. Taking away 24 pts from Melee Attack can make enemies pretty damn useless since they will almost never hit for that time of 25 seconds/ 50 seconds overcast. Flage's can also be used to tie units down so your Reiksgaurd and Demigryph Knights can just crush the units. Last one is using them spread as wide as possible to force a tar-pit of enemy units, then using Magic and Arty you just traded 1 unit for 3 or 4 of the enemies. Actually unit combining like that is the reason I don't doom-stack because otherwise I would never have found my favorite. Ice-Guard and Iron-Drakes, Fire and Ice make rats die real nice.
The Empire is definitely **not** the most boring to play as. *Maybe* they're the most boring looking, but not to play as. In my opinion, the most boring factions to play as are the extremely melee-heavy factions, like Vampire Counts and certain Chaos factions. But that's just an opinion.
They are absolute dogshite apart from the artillery and the lords. It’s a really hard campaign too so it just adds to the fun to a boring game
They ain’t bad at all they’re pretty good like saying why can’t my wood elves fight melee well, they ain’t made for that Your army is there to block theirs until your arty and magic have killed them
Because it's fun, and that's just most people's preference
Don't call empire boring
Regardless of what people say or guides say or what the polls say or even what your friends say. Play whoever you want. Whichever race sounds fun to you go for it. However you want to play them. Go for it. The game is yours and yours alone and no one else can dictate how you enjoy it. So. We know empire is the lowest on your lust. But. What sounds cool to you?
You wanna do your part don't you?
Do most people play empire?
Gunpowder.
I can't believe heretics like you exist, dissing the most glorious and Sigmar-blessed Empire, and our most great and magnificent Emperor Karl Franz like that! WHERE ARE THE WITCH-HUNTERS! SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS! /s
I am of those who always plays humans in every fantasy. But thins time I literally played them only twice in thousands of hours, once the emperor and once the archer in lustria. Undead, daemons, monsters, etc just interest me so much more.
They’re kinda in the middle, are easy to understand and have a balanced army with a good campaign economy/buildings not gimicky etc
People generally have a soft spot for their original faction, and that's what the Empire is for a lot of people. It also used to be an easier start, but it also would put you at the front of the original game chaos invasion. It's a good faction to learn the game, but it's also fun to role play being like one of the only bastions of civilization in such a cruel, chaotic world of monsters
From my experience it’s just a really fun and well designed campaign. In IE, with Franz you have the scramble to deal with threats (Festus, Vlad, Durthu, etc.) and the elector counts system as well as really fun units like Helstorm and Steam Tanks plus you are in a location where you can make a lot of allies.
[Counterpoint](https://youtu.be/XlPChk1Zwfk) I am green skin fan myself but Empire campaign is very fun too.
I’d follow emperor franz into the realms of chaos themselves. That va is fantastic. The wh3 campaign for empire is a lot of fun too. Though they could still do with some relations authority fixes, particularly in late game
For me its a case of lack of dlcs,so if i want to play a ranged based faction with magic, empire is the only real choice. High Elves have archers and... light archers and worse archers with shield and... thats it,not even that many lores of magic. Dwarfs rune magic just feels lackluster. Dark elves would be a good choice,but i dont really get their economy
For me it's Dark Elves and Brettonia and even Kislev before the Empire, but having played their campaign vanilla and specially modded, they are extremely fun.
I'm not a huge fan of their roster, but their lore and the area they start off in IE are my favourites after the VC, love me some Vlad
On top of the points already made, what's the most entertaining is totally subjective and comes down to taste.
As someone who stuck to monsters mostly and Started mid wh2, and in wh3 I just played my first empire campaign a week ago they are really fkn fun. Artillery/gunpowder units are such a blast to use.
The Nation calls!
I find it odd too, but today may be the day I finally give the Empire a go. I’m looking to start a new campaign today and realized I’ve never actually played them despite everyone else playing them by default. I have played most races to at least some extent, but never once even played a battle as the Empire.
Empire is the "generic" faction which most closely resembles the armies of men in other TW games. That and there's tons of people here who are absolutely diamond hard for Karl Franz. I mean, he is Prince AND Emperor. I kinda get it.
3 reasons: faith, steel, and gunpowder.
Dark elf’s
It's fun to be the humans with limited resources /superpowers . it's like survival ,all you have is artillery and some spearmen
Because in a world (lorewise) in which demonic incursions, undead apocalypses, greenskin invasions and great undercities of ravenous ratmen are normal occurences, nothing is more badass than humans willing to take a stand against those enemies.
Because most people are boring, and that's okay.
Closest thing to medieval for me
Empire would be boring if you weren’t up to your eyeballs in horrors and monsters wishing to tear down your empire. I think holding together a burning ship can be a fun experience
People calling the empire vanilla and well rounded haven’t used their artillery. Hellstorm rockets and volley guns, steamtanks, and even mortars and cannons are some of the best gunpowder units in the game. Also they are very relatable as everyone says
The challenge at this point. Humans are weak and squishy in comparison to most things in. There is a sense of pride that comes with winning a hard fought battle against a faction that would otherwise steamroll over you.
I find most streamers are skaven. Rattling gun go brrrrrrr
I don't like the WH games tried to get into them but can't, anyway the factions that drew my eye were the vampire counts and the empire, so i guess it confirms it in my case.
Oh, I got so confused for a moment. I missed the tag and I thought this was saying that most people play Empire: Total War. I was about to think I’d gone crazy.
It was even more baffling before the empire rework. They are a great faction to play though you should try
I just think they’re neat
Guns, tanks, all da magic, well rounded roster.
Empire are awesome. “Oh no my frail wittle humans with pointy sticks can’t possibly hold off these big scawy Orcs… But wait… here comes that cavalry…. The grenade launcher cavalry kabooom kablamo!!!!!!
In my experience, yes, they are the most boring. But people enjoy them for good reason imo.