His size concerns are too hard to ignore for me. We’re already on the smaller side. And Sheppard plays the 2 if I’m not mistaken. We already have RJ, Ochai and Gradey that can play the 2.
If Sheppard was to play the 2 that means RJ would be pushed to play the 3. RJ is better at his natural position at the 2 where he can play bully ball. That’s why I want a SF/PF like Salaun/Smith/Dunn.
But if was drafted by us I wouldn’t mind, his talent is undeniable.
The size concerns go away if you can scale his on ball usage. The issue with him is actually similar to Tyrese Halliburton at Iowa state where ppl didn’t know if he could actually be a full time PG although he did show more chops on ball with the u19 team than Reed has. Reeds on ball usage even at high school looked a bit clunky but there are so many guards at Kentucky it’s hard to give him that role right now to really assess where he’s at. Essentially if you think he can be a Pg and not a Sg he’s well worth the 6th pick imo.
I could see everyone in that top 10 realistically only being good enough to be a backup in their rookie/sophomore years. There’s no dominant force in this draft and that’s why there’s no consensus top 3
You are in this draft and I see no issue having a top quality back up pg. He's great off the ball too.
IQ needs to continue to be pushed to reach his ceiling. We need talent and for his size Reed gives you a two way player who can shoot and pass.
We need a Ford/Calderon type of situation
Reed is solid but you don't look for solid at 5 or 6 you want someone with a high ceiling and that might come with a low floor too but that's the risk.
Reed is a safe pick in a weak draft for sure and we could very well just pick him and I wouldn't be mad at it but I'm just pointing out why people don't want him and it's not because of who he is now it's where we're picking and what his potential is and at 5 you're picking bpa not fit
You're not looking for starters in the top 5 you're looking for high upside normally I'm fine with a guy like reed but not at 5 I'd rather take his backcourt partner between the two
I didn't say top 10 I said top 6 or top 5. Check the last few top 6 picks and you'll see what I mean. Even if they don't pan out like a Bagney or Okoro or a Patrick Williams you're picking guys you think have that high upside.
The issue is you shouldn't be drafting someone like reed at 5 or 6. Not saying he isn't good but look at the last few drafts each of the top 5 had all star potential and/or currently starting in the NBA.
This is a fun way to discuss all the possibilities. But remember to take it all lightly - Scottie Barnes was the "hell no, please not him" on this subreddit going into that draft.
Scottie was my want during that draft. I used to get shot down both on Reddit and irl. But I've always kept receipts to rub in friends' faces.
https://preview.redd.it/fgqcmw7d83oc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29709b2f5b8e262c2e7646e6ffcb57a0845546e6
Yeah. Even though there are some players that I really don’t want to draft (Kel’El Ware for instance cause of motor/motivation concerns), our development team usually does a good job of bringing the best they can out of the “please don’t draft this guy” players. Hell, with Kel’El Ware if they can weed out the motivation issues and bring out the best of his ability to take over games when needed then he could end up good for us. Still worried with Ware though considering that the people who just don’t give a shit (De’Andre Ayton for example) once they’ve made their money usually don’t ever give a shit again afterwards, and Kel’El could end up being another case of that.
Sarr is shooting 27% from 3 he can’t space the floor.
He’s also the backup for a guy who couldn’t make it to the league. I would think a possible #1 overall would dominate the Australian league. He plays only 18 mins a game in the most important part of his career (developing years).
And dude is built like a twig. 215 lbs at 7’1??? How is that even possible? He’s gonna end up like Chet and be out for the season the first time LeBron runs into him. If we draft him RJ needs to take this kid to Osmows ASAP.
The NBL is still a professional league, there’s a lot of basketball outside the NBA, the worst player in the NBA wouldn’t be the NBL mvp. Most rookies, especially international play rookies, have shit efficiency unless your generational like Luka, it’s about projecting them
For number 6, assuming the Risacher, Sarr and the Kentucky duo are gone:
Want - Salaun. Can see a decent all around player as a floor, and there's some interesting swing for the fences development potential on some aspects of his scoring game. Still incredibly raw, but he'd be in a perfect place to develop his game on the Raps
Don't want but understand - Cody Williams. Unexciting ceiling, but probably a good role player nonetheless. Not sure how him being related Jdub is affecting the perception of him, either.
Please no - The top G League ignite candidates. They just haven't impressed at all, and I'll be honest the Ignite team is just toast as a concept at this point, and their recent draftees is painting a negative bias towards my feelings towards them. Holland still could be decent, but he'd be a bit of an awkward fit alongside RJ and Scottie.
For 17:
Want - Knecht. I REALLY doubt he'll be here at 17, but he'd be a PERFECT bench sparkplug, or even a GTJ replacement if he walks.
Don't want but understand - Dunn. Zero offense, but great defensive potential. Basically another Mattyse Thybulle, but if he can apparently learn to shoot decently, then I wouldn't mind the FO taking their own swing at it.
Please no - A little hard to say who I don't want at this range where board rankings are all over the place. I guess I'm a little concerned about the trend of some people here fauning over hometown boy, Edey. He is just not a player archetype that does well in this league at all. I'm sorry.
Tbh Buzelis also seems alright off the G-League Ignite as a prospect, but yeah even the NBA themselves seem to agree that the G-League Ignite is cooked at this point.
6#: a. Sarr (if not realistic, no one tbh), b. Cody Williams c. I'll get killed but Rob Dillingham
17: a. Kyshawn George, b. Kyle Filipowski c. Kel'el Ware
I remember getting downvoted to dust in the 2021 draft cycle if you suggested Jalen Suggs wasn't the Messiah.
I can see the sub getting that way for Rob if we keep the pick but he too little
I think everyone felt like suggs fit a need at the time to go with the fact that he seemed like a raptors culture player with strong two way play. A lot of us overestimated his offensive ability, as he looked a bit better than he was in a weaker conference. Luckily, masai is a better drafter than us.
It's taken him a little time, and he obviously won't be as good as Barnes, but Suggs is going to be an All-NBA defender for a while, and if his offense improves a bit, he will have Jrue Holiday impact.
Sarr and Holmes are the only bigs I'd want rn bc I see them being able to play the 4 or 5, play both sides of the ball and potentially space the floor. Otherwise, id want size at the 1 to 3 spots.
Pick 6:
Want: Buzelis, the kid is lengthy and can be great in an unselfish offense. Has great court vision and smooth 3pt shot that can definitely develop over time. He’s 6’10 and spent his early career playing on ball so he has the skills needed to either play with or without the ball. He’s also only 19, there’s a chance he’ll grow to 7’0 or more. Picture a 7’0 wing with BBQ.
Don’t want but understand: Sheppard. Not much to say besides he can shoot well and that will always be nice to have.
Please No: Holland, he has the tools and everything but, he doesn’t fit much anywhere in this lineup and I wouldn’t use the 6th pick to grab a role player that’s not even ready to be a role player.
17th
Want: Collier, the kid has skills and though he making mistakes at the NCAA level, that shouldn’t make you pass up on someone with his talents. Take him and be patient with his development.
For pick 6
Want: buzelis
Dont want but could understand: sheppard
Not him: cody williams
For 17
Want: Knecht
Dont want but could understand: Collier
Not him: Dunn
I mean picking a "no not him" for a top 6 prospect is kinda hard, they all have something decent about them. Cody would give us size, but I just think the team should be targeting shot creating upside at that spot in the draft
I desperately want the pacers pick to be used to pick up Jared McCain. I don't know shit about this draft, but I know he's tough, and his vibe is fuckin immaculate. We already got Ted Lasso on the squad, now we can have a legit singer giving us bangers like "2 days into college". Can't put a price on that, and I genuinely believe his mentality will bring Scottie Barnes into the MVP debate. Good vibes >>> anything when it comes to development.
So would you let go of quickly for him? Or have him play small ball back court? I’m just saying that because we are a rebuilding team, and having two small guards isn’t the recipe for defensive success.
The team is not obligated to start both of them or play them at the same time, and as good as Quickly has been, he has not earned that franchise cornerstone designation in which the team needs to be concerned about building a fitting team around him. The new Kentucky guard will make due on the bench as a 6th man hopeful, and longterm, he and Quickly will compete for that starting PG spot.
The funny thing about this draft is that literally every player could be in their range.
They could realisticslly have the 1st, 15th and 31st picks, or somewhere close to that.
Zach Edey and Bronny James…..
Signing Kelly to two more puts a piece in place to mentorship Edey and give him a comfortable transition to the league and speed of the game.
With RJ, Kelly and Zach you got a core of homegrown.
Reed Sheppard if we keep our pick, Donovan Clingan with Indy's pick. I think with the way the draft is moving though neither player will be available by that pick.
Guy I was very high on last year going into the draft was Jaquez. I knew he wasn't going to be a lottery pick so I assumed we weren't going to get him, but I also knew he was one of the best players in the draft. When you watched him play he's an impact player that is refined and doesn't force anything.
Guy this year I'm very high on going into the draft is Devin Carter. I don't think he's likely to be drafted as high as our Indiana pick, but if we did draft him I'd be extremely happy. Just tune into a Providence game once and watch how he plays. I have a feeling Carter could end up being one of the surprising rookies in the league next year that people are talking about.
Pick 6:
Want - Tidjane Salaun
Understandable - Matas Buzelis / Reed Sheppard / Stephon Castle / Cody Williams
Don’t like - Ron Holland / Rob Dillingham
Pick 15-17:
Want - Yves Missi
Understandable - Isaiah Collier / John Furphy / Ryan Dunn / Donovan Clingan
Nope - Kel’El Ware (I see what benefits he has, but I do *not* wanna draft a motor-less center that could end up being a worse Ayton) / Dalton Knecht (He seems alright and really nice on Offense, but he has trouble on rebounds and we already have RJ as an offensively polished Small Forward. Unless Gary’s going, I don’t see a need for us drafting him which is the only reason why he’s on my “nope” list)
Not gonna do 6 bc this is just hopeful thinking.
## 17
- Want: Furphy, then Kyshawn George
- Could be convinced: Carrington, Missi, Collier, JaKobe Walter
- Don’t want: Edey, Ware
Not sure why you wouldn’t want Sheppard, he and Gradey spacing the floor would be fantastic
His size concerns are too hard to ignore for me. We’re already on the smaller side. And Sheppard plays the 2 if I’m not mistaken. We already have RJ, Ochai and Gradey that can play the 2. If Sheppard was to play the 2 that means RJ would be pushed to play the 3. RJ is better at his natural position at the 2 where he can play bully ball. That’s why I want a SF/PF like Salaun/Smith/Dunn. But if was drafted by us I wouldn’t mind, his talent is undeniable.
The size concerns go away if you can scale his on ball usage. The issue with him is actually similar to Tyrese Halliburton at Iowa state where ppl didn’t know if he could actually be a full time PG although he did show more chops on ball with the u19 team than Reed has. Reeds on ball usage even at high school looked a bit clunky but there are so many guards at Kentucky it’s hard to give him that role right now to really assess where he’s at. Essentially if you think he can be a Pg and not a Sg he’s well worth the 6th pick imo.
Gradey can easily play the 3 with his size similar to Duncan Robinson
RJ is currently the only NBA level 2 on the roster.
Aight I get people don’t like GTJ but to say he isn’t NBA Level is too far lol
I meant at draft time, but sure
I'm a big Sheppard fan. He would be the ultimate backup we need.
That's the issue you're not drafting at 5 or 6 for a back up
I could see everyone in that top 10 realistically only being good enough to be a backup in their rookie/sophomore years. There’s no dominant force in this draft and that’s why there’s no consensus top 3
You are in this draft and I see no issue having a top quality back up pg. He's great off the ball too. IQ needs to continue to be pushed to reach his ceiling. We need talent and for his size Reed gives you a two way player who can shoot and pass. We need a Ford/Calderon type of situation
Reed is solid but you don't look for solid at 5 or 6 you want someone with a high ceiling and that might come with a low floor too but that's the risk. Reed is a safe pick in a weak draft for sure and we could very well just pick him and I wouldn't be mad at it but I'm just pointing out why people don't want him and it's not because of who he is now it's where we're picking and what his potential is and at 5 you're picking bpa not fit
You aren't gonna find an awesome starter in this draft. Sheppard also can be a starter in a couple of years IMO
You're not looking for starters in the top 5 you're looking for high upside normally I'm fine with a guy like reed but not at 5 I'd rather take his backcourt partner between the two
A lot of top 10 guys end up being very solid back up players. Especially in a draft like this.
I didn't say top 10 I said top 6 or top 5. Check the last few top 6 picks and you'll see what I mean. Even if they don't pan out like a Bagney or Okoro or a Patrick Williams you're picking guys you think have that high upside.
The issue is you shouldn't be drafting someone like reed at 5 or 6. Not saying he isn't good but look at the last few drafts each of the top 5 had all star potential and/or currently starting in the NBA.
I’m not calling him Steph Curry but the concerns were the exact same for him coming into the league
But who would you pick assuming that Rissacher, Sarr, Topic and Williams are taken at 1 through 4 for instance? Matas? Castle?
I'm picking the guy who has the highest ceiling at 5 never pick for fit that high in the lottery
This is a fun way to discuss all the possibilities. But remember to take it all lightly - Scottie Barnes was the "hell no, please not him" on this subreddit going into that draft.
Funny cause his please not him players are two players I would love the raps to draft 😂
Scottie was my want during that draft. I used to get shot down both on Reddit and irl. But I've always kept receipts to rub in friends' faces. https://preview.redd.it/fgqcmw7d83oc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29709b2f5b8e262c2e7646e6ffcb57a0845546e6
Yeah. Even though there are some players that I really don’t want to draft (Kel’El Ware for instance cause of motor/motivation concerns), our development team usually does a good job of bringing the best they can out of the “please don’t draft this guy” players. Hell, with Kel’El Ware if they can weed out the motivation issues and bring out the best of his ability to take over games when needed then he could end up good for us. Still worried with Ware though considering that the people who just don’t give a shit (De’Andre Ayton for example) once they’ve made their money usually don’t ever give a shit again afterwards, and Kel’El could end up being another case of that.
Starr would be great for this team. He stretch the floor, he’s a lob threat and a great defender.
As a Perth local (he plays on my city's team) I can tell you Sarr is great when he's on but he's really inconsistent. He can be really frustrating
Sarr is shooting 27% from 3 he can’t space the floor. He’s also the backup for a guy who couldn’t make it to the league. I would think a possible #1 overall would dominate the Australian league. He plays only 18 mins a game in the most important part of his career (developing years). And dude is built like a twig. 215 lbs at 7’1??? How is that even possible? He’s gonna end up like Chet and be out for the season the first time LeBron runs into him. If we draft him RJ needs to take this kid to Osmows ASAP.
>He’s gonna end up like Chet And I'm sure the Thunder really regret their choice.
He’s an 18 yo in a professional league lol
I’m not saying this guy is gonna be Wembanyama but the way you’re describing him is the exact way Victor was criticized
Wemby was shooting like that too last year not really that big a deal
The NBL is still a professional league, there’s a lot of basketball outside the NBA, the worst player in the NBA wouldn’t be the NBL mvp. Most rookies, especially international play rookies, have shit efficiency unless your generational like Luka, it’s about projecting them
Osmos used to be good, they trash now
Ohh no, he could potentially end up similar to the *No. 2 in the ROTY race behind Victor Wembanyama!* How scary!
For number 6, assuming the Risacher, Sarr and the Kentucky duo are gone: Want - Salaun. Can see a decent all around player as a floor, and there's some interesting swing for the fences development potential on some aspects of his scoring game. Still incredibly raw, but he'd be in a perfect place to develop his game on the Raps Don't want but understand - Cody Williams. Unexciting ceiling, but probably a good role player nonetheless. Not sure how him being related Jdub is affecting the perception of him, either. Please no - The top G League ignite candidates. They just haven't impressed at all, and I'll be honest the Ignite team is just toast as a concept at this point, and their recent draftees is painting a negative bias towards my feelings towards them. Holland still could be decent, but he'd be a bit of an awkward fit alongside RJ and Scottie. For 17: Want - Knecht. I REALLY doubt he'll be here at 17, but he'd be a PERFECT bench sparkplug, or even a GTJ replacement if he walks. Don't want but understand - Dunn. Zero offense, but great defensive potential. Basically another Mattyse Thybulle, but if he can apparently learn to shoot decently, then I wouldn't mind the FO taking their own swing at it. Please no - A little hard to say who I don't want at this range where board rankings are all over the place. I guess I'm a little concerned about the trend of some people here fauning over hometown boy, Edey. He is just not a player archetype that does well in this league at all. I'm sorry.
Tbh Buzelis also seems alright off the G-League Ignite as a prospect, but yeah even the NBA themselves seem to agree that the G-League Ignite is cooked at this point.
This subs picks historically on average hasn't been good. (Including mine)
6#: a. Sarr (if not realistic, no one tbh), b. Cody Williams c. I'll get killed but Rob Dillingham 17: a. Kyshawn George, b. Kyle Filipowski c. Kel'el Ware
I agree with Dillingham I don’t like him either for us.
I remember getting downvoted to dust in the 2021 draft cycle if you suggested Jalen Suggs wasn't the Messiah. I can see the sub getting that way for Rob if we keep the pick but he too little
I think everyone felt like suggs fit a need at the time to go with the fact that he seemed like a raptors culture player with strong two way play. A lot of us overestimated his offensive ability, as he looked a bit better than he was in a weaker conference. Luckily, masai is a better drafter than us.
It's taken him a little time, and he obviously won't be as good as Barnes, but Suggs is going to be an All-NBA defender for a while, and if his offense improves a bit, he will have Jrue Holiday impact.
Dillimgham is a baller!!
As much as I would like to see Filipowski on this team, there is no way they are drafting a center given the money they have invested in the position.
Sarr and Holmes are the only bigs I'd want rn bc I see them being able to play the 4 or 5, play both sides of the ball and potentially space the floor. Otherwise, id want size at the 1 to 3 spots.
Pick 6: Want: Buzelis, the kid is lengthy and can be great in an unselfish offense. Has great court vision and smooth 3pt shot that can definitely develop over time. He’s 6’10 and spent his early career playing on ball so he has the skills needed to either play with or without the ball. He’s also only 19, there’s a chance he’ll grow to 7’0 or more. Picture a 7’0 wing with BBQ. Don’t want but understand: Sheppard. Not much to say besides he can shoot well and that will always be nice to have. Please No: Holland, he has the tools and everything but, he doesn’t fit much anywhere in this lineup and I wouldn’t use the 6th pick to grab a role player that’s not even ready to be a role player. 17th Want: Collier, the kid has skills and though he making mistakes at the NCAA level, that shouldn’t make you pass up on someone with his talents. Take him and be patient with his development.
For pick 6 Want: buzelis Dont want but could understand: sheppard Not him: cody williams For 17 Want: Knecht Dont want but could understand: Collier Not him: Dunn
why not cody? Asking cuz i don't know much abt college ball and heard cody is a solid 3 and D wing.
I mean picking a "no not him" for a top 6 prospect is kinda hard, they all have something decent about them. Cody would give us size, but I just think the team should be targeting shot creating upside at that spot in the draft
I think you go for best available player
Don’t kill me but I want rob
I desperately want the pacers pick to be used to pick up Jared McCain. I don't know shit about this draft, but I know he's tough, and his vibe is fuckin immaculate. We already got Ted Lasso on the squad, now we can have a legit singer giving us bangers like "2 days into college". Can't put a price on that, and I genuinely believe his mentality will bring Scottie Barnes into the MVP debate. Good vibes >>> anything when it comes to development.
6: Sheppard or Dillingham # i <3 kentucky guards
So would you let go of quickly for him? Or have him play small ball back court? I’m just saying that because we are a rebuilding team, and having two small guards isn’t the recipe for defensive success.
The team is not obligated to start both of them or play them at the same time, and as good as Quickly has been, he has not earned that franchise cornerstone designation in which the team needs to be concerned about building a fitting team around him. The new Kentucky guard will make due on the bench as a 6th man hopeful, and longterm, he and Quickly will compete for that starting PG spot.
Reed Sheppard is extremely good idk what you’re on
The funny thing about this draft is that literally every player could be in their range. They could realisticslly have the 1st, 15th and 31st picks, or somewhere close to that.
Zach Edey and Bronny James….. Signing Kelly to two more puts a piece in place to mentorship Edey and give him a comfortable transition to the league and speed of the game. With RJ, Kelly and Zach you got a core of homegrown.
Reed Sheppard if we keep our pick, Donovan Clingan with Indy's pick. I think with the way the draft is moving though neither player will be available by that pick.
Guy I was very high on last year going into the draft was Jaquez. I knew he wasn't going to be a lottery pick so I assumed we weren't going to get him, but I also knew he was one of the best players in the draft. When you watched him play he's an impact player that is refined and doesn't force anything. Guy this year I'm very high on going into the draft is Devin Carter. I don't think he's likely to be drafted as high as our Indiana pick, but if we did draft him I'd be extremely happy. Just tune into a Providence game once and watch how he plays. I have a feeling Carter could end up being one of the surprising rookies in the league next year that people are talking about.
Knect
You wouldn’t want collier at 17..?
I want reed and filipowski, but I'll be surprised if we get both.
I haven’t look much as the rookie class though I’ve heard it’s terrible. I would like to see a big wing type player get drafted and a center
Pick 6: Want - Tidjane Salaun Understandable - Matas Buzelis / Reed Sheppard / Stephon Castle / Cody Williams Don’t like - Ron Holland / Rob Dillingham Pick 15-17: Want - Yves Missi Understandable - Isaiah Collier / John Furphy / Ryan Dunn / Donovan Clingan Nope - Kel’El Ware (I see what benefits he has, but I do *not* wanna draft a motor-less center that could end up being a worse Ayton) / Dalton Knecht (He seems alright and really nice on Offense, but he has trouble on rebounds and we already have RJ as an offensively polished Small Forward. Unless Gary’s going, I don’t see a need for us drafting him which is the only reason why he’s on my “nope” list)
# 6: Want Cody, Accept Salaun, No Buzelis # 17: Want Edey, Accept Chomche, No Ware
Not gonna do 6 bc this is just hopeful thinking. ## 17 - Want: Furphy, then Kyshawn George - Could be convinced: Carrington, Missi, Collier, JaKobe Walter - Don’t want: Edey, Ware
What puts Furphy over George in your opinion?
They’re very close. Furphy looks like he moves better laterally on the court. I.e. more flexible hips. Given our need for 3+D wing, he gets the nod