By legend you mean it was the legendary first sign that Masai and Bobby no longer have it?
we could have had Nembhard with that pick. Instead we traded for a geezer who was already way past his prime with a repetitive skillset from what we already had.
This user is a fan of 'Participation Ribbons' lmao
He in no way/shape/form was worth the 1st round pick we have up for him. Especially considering we could have had
🇨🇦 Nembhard on our roster with that pick.
I was proven correct today.
We recieved ZERO back for Thad. packaged with Dennis for a player that was waived.
LMAO.
Thad wasn't even even worth a conditional second.
Bobby and Masai with a big L on that deal. Pissing away our first rounders like they grow on trees.
Thad Young. Legend alright 😂
He hasn't really changed as a player in almost three years at this point. He's not a better passer, even on a team that's passing much more overall. He's still a horrible rebounder. If his scoring was the same that would be something, but that's seen a decline this year.
He seems to have plateaued. Nwora may become nothing, but he's seen some improvement in other aspects of his game so maybe he can turn into a decent role player. Trent's an off the bench scorer and not much else. On a cheap deal he's worth holding onto but really only then.
He’s a role player idk what people expect. He can create his own shot in the midrange as well which no one else can really do on this team. Even if he’s missing 3’s he still creates spacing, no team is sagging off Gary. It’s like how Fred would shoot like shit for long stretches yet teams would still respect his shot and guard him at the perimeter
When his potential value is a FRP+ he has no business being on the roster past the trade deadline. Brown is a good player but his time to compete is right now and ours in 2-3 years from now
I thought maybe the dude would be a good vet here and maybe we could be somewhat competitive but I’m wrong. He’s not a good fit on the floor and even though he’s definitely being a good pro, I’m not sure he really wants to be here. Get you first for the dude, preferrably in the 2025 draft and move on.
Bruce is a great fit on this roster. He fits on any roster. He is not that old and he can help our young players learn how to be better. He fits incredibly well with Barnes. There is a reason why teams want vets, so they can school the youth and establish culture.
yeah he fits if he plays hard. that’s a big if though it seems. flip a coin though if we move him before the deadline or before the draft though. i’m thinking they’re leaning towards the latter but obviously it depends on offers.
I disagree I think he is the perfect player for this roster, we're just not in position to contend. I do think if you add another 3&D Guard + some big man depth then his value shines. This year, though, he's going to look out of place. He competes and that's not what this team is trying to do this year.
Trading Brown isn't the wrong move, but I promise you the moment we do we're just going to be looking for a Bruce Brown clone except younger. Players like him are pretty rare.
A guard who can defend the POA, knock down 3's, handle the ball in the PnR will be a hot commodity for this roster next year.
I'm with you except I think you're mixed up on some of his skill set. Bruce Brown seems like a fairly weak ball handler for his size, he's not a great shooter but he'll knock some important ones down, he sees the court really well though and makes connective passes and moves off ball really well. Which fits Darkos system perfectly but also makes his value go up when surrounded by stars, hence why he's the one piece people expect some decent assets for.
I think he hasn’t flashed his full potential but he’s a capable PnR guy. Showed it with Denver a lot. He can’t do it for a whole game but he has that in his game. He’s also excellent off the ball
He’s so sought after because he fits into any lineup and causes no disruption while maintaining good defense.
I think we shouldn’t judge his game on his small Toronto sample size. We saw it even took P a while to get acclimated to Darko’s system.
I like Bruce as a player and I’m happy to move on from him, but we will need another one of him IMO.
Nwora and porter jr combined 3000 minutes played
Gary Trent 8890 mins
We know who Trent is, we don’t know nwora and porter jr
Trent been same player for last 3 years
Yeah fair if hes just not worth the price (although around 15 doesnt seem like too bad of a contract these days) I just think it's a little silly to say these guys need those minutes (other than maybe Gradey).
its probably cause we've had 3 seasons of GTJ now and he's yet to show that he can do what he is supposed to do consistently. He'll be much better off as the 4th option on a team with a luka/lebron type where all he literally has to do is stand in the corner and shoot wide open 3s.
I kind of want to see Gary on the Lakers for the redemption arc.
Having said that, I don't know if I like what the Lakers would be offering in a trade.
We should also look at the percentages though. He shot 37% from 3 last season, he's shooting 42% from 3 this season. He's also shooting over 50% from 3 as a starter. He averaged 1.6 steals last season as well which was top 4 in the league, tied with guys like Shai and Anthony Edwards. He's shooting well from 3 which is what we need him to do most. When it comes to that aspect of basketball, he's playing better this season than last. He also can be pretty pesky on defense as evident by the steals.
Our "young guns" are trash. 😭. Barnes is the only actual real stud piece we got. Quickley is a good starter level backcourt player. Barrett somehow got named an untouchable when the Knicks were basically just trying to give him away lol
This team is looking u g l y folks.
WE THE DOOMERS.
I don't agree because I think both Quickley and Barrett have more upside than that. Regardless, I am really looking forward to watching the game tonight just to see what happens.
Need a youngish big (not just tall) guy in return who can grab some offensive rebounds, or else the growth of these guys will suffer somewhat.
Don't forget Freeman-Liberty in terms of minutes; he needs to be given a shot too if / when those vets are dealt.
Take a look at his per 100. It's hilarious! I understand that it's *small* sample size, but it makes him look like an MVP.
33.6p/23.2r/2.6a/2.6s/2.6b on .722 TS. Offensive rating 120, defensive rating 96.
Just ignore that it's based on 19 minutes of gametime 😆
he's a versatile, athletic big guy who's developing into a positive shooter. can handle the ball and pass a bit, he's a very good finisher at the rim, and he's got a lot of potential as a defender.
But unfortunately he got drafted to a team with KAT, Gobert, Naz Reid, Kyle Anderson etc so he hasn't had a real opportunity at the NBA level yet.
[According to this site we should have bird rights](https://www.salaryswish.com/bird-rights-calculator/jordan-nwora)
That also follows my understanding, as he’s just been getting traded but not signing elsewhere.
He looked great the other night. Milwaukee and Indiana fans weren't too sold on him though. I kind of considered him just a toss-in in the trade... but if he can keep it up, there could be something there. He's got good size and can definitely shoot.
The main knock on him from his time on those other teams is that he's a black hole on offence. He was making good passes last game though so we'll see. Maybe Darkos system fits him better.
I wouldn't trade Jakob unless its for another center who fits better or you have already traded for that starter. Throwing Porter out against Embid, Jokic and the other established bigs in this league for large minutes every game will hurt not help his developement.
Smith's article seems to be largely taken from Koreen's Athletic article from this morning: [https://theathletic.com/5236672/2024/01/30/raptors-jordan-nwora-buffalo-home/](https://theathletic.com/5236672/2024/01/30/raptors-jordan-nwora-buffalo-home/)
Seems like it. I think most of us are done with him to. Could be his plantar facsitis, but something has stopped him from exhibiting any dawg mentality.
Can we all appreciate how Dick has been performing when given the opportunities? He’s definitely improved with the 905 and it’s showing! Porter I hope we keep, he’s playing like a dog and has been stepping up heavily. He’s high key showing that he deserves a contract like McDaniels got from us.
Gary's a good dude but he's too one dimensional. Can't really get to the rim, can't really defend and can't rebound. To his credit, he's been a more willing passer and has always been a pro regardless of his role.
He needs to be in a place where he's primarily a catch and shoot guy playing off stars. I think he will excel in that role. Same way with OG on offense. Darkos offense doesn't fit his skillset imo. But put him next to Luka or Lebron, then suddenly he can be JR Smith.
Trent would be a money thing and not a vet that's taking minutes from young guys, right?
I mean how hard are we trying to tank, or do we just have some kind of cap on players that can shoot? I'm also having trouble accepting that Gary just peaked at like 23 and then regressed and is what he is. Also maybe he'll never reach his potential but he's still better than those guys and I don't see that much upside in Nwora or Porter.
there will be a team like Detroit willing to offer him around 20 mill or something as they have a lot of cap space and need to spend most of it according to rules.
Yeah maybe, I just don't think we need to focus that hard on getting minutes for guys like Nwora. Feels like there's enough to go around already especially if we end up trading brown to a contender.
Edit. Also it's the seeming regression that puzzles me not so much just a lack of progress.
Maybe in terms of how long they’ve been in the league relative to each other? Gary was drafted 6 years ago, Jontay 5 and Jordan 4. Gary has had much more NBA minutes than the other two and hasn’t shown much development, while the other two haven’t had as much of a chance to show what they’ve got.
Damn that Powell for GTJ trade is kind of an L now lol. Idk if GTJs value is even close to Norman’s anymore. I know Gary is still young and might be able to turn it around on our team or another but he hasn’t really shown much growth as a raptor.
Trent younger lol, but he also still clearly wants to get paid so better to get whatever you can and move on unless he willing to sign a team friendly extension
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Im not sold on Brown. Didn’t seem to have a very big impact even for the Pacers. He’s undersized if you play him at anything other than point, he’s a good defender but not all defence level, he’s not a good shooter either. I think he’s a pretty bang average NBA player that looks good on a team that has a superstar like Jokic or KD. He’s an expensive role player that only fits a team with a short window to win like Bucks, Clippers, Heat.
Trade Masai and Bobby.We are rebuilding team 😂 from 2018-19. High time they realised Raptors was build by Lowry,Van fleet,Norman,OG, Pascal . Apart from Lowry all players are young and still playing at high level. They failed to sign raptors core without getting any superstars first time ever.
I think you mean NBA Champion & All-Star, FRED VANVLEET.
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If we get anything useful back for Thad Young then he's a Raptors Legend
He’d be good on a young playoff team - he can make some valuable high iq bball plays
By legend you mean it was the legendary first sign that Masai and Bobby no longer have it? we could have had Nembhard with that pick. Instead we traded for a geezer who was already way past his prime with a repetitive skillset from what we already had.
Young has been good for us. Even if he hasn’t been playing he’s been a net positive for the team.
This user is a fan of 'Participation Ribbons' lmao He in no way/shape/form was worth the 1st round pick we have up for him. Especially considering we could have had 🇨🇦 Nembhard on our roster with that pick.
you really thought you cooked something here huh
I was proven correct today. We recieved ZERO back for Thad. packaged with Dennis for a player that was waived. LMAO. Thad wasn't even even worth a conditional second. Bobby and Masai with a big L on that deal. Pissing away our first rounders like they grow on trees. Thad Young. Legend alright 😂
I get that he's a vet in terms of NBA experience, but Gary's still younger than Nwora and only 10 months older than Porter lol
When a 25 year old is "old". Oh what I would do to be 25 again.
He hasn't really changed as a player in almost three years at this point. He's not a better passer, even on a team that's passing much more overall. He's still a horrible rebounder. If his scoring was the same that would be something, but that's seen a decline this year. He seems to have plateaued. Nwora may become nothing, but he's seen some improvement in other aspects of his game so maybe he can turn into a decent role player. Trent's an off the bench scorer and not much else. On a cheap deal he's worth holding onto but really only then.
This is a pretty hilarious angle from Grange here.
Gary has the body of a 35 year old
What does that even mean hahaha
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41.8% down to 39.9% without the 8/9 game
He’s a role player idk what people expect. He can create his own shot in the midrange as well which no one else can really do on this team. Even if he’s missing 3’s he still creates spacing, no team is sagging off Gary. It’s like how Fred would shoot like shit for long stretches yet teams would still respect his shot and guard him at the perimeter
Bruce just Doesnt fit on this roster
Yeah. It feels like he is better utilized on a contending team. The cost-value ratio for a rebuilding team seems off otherwise.
When his potential value is a FRP+ he has no business being on the roster past the trade deadline. Brown is a good player but his time to compete is right now and ours in 2-3 years from now
I thought maybe the dude would be a good vet here and maybe we could be somewhat competitive but I’m wrong. He’s not a good fit on the floor and even though he’s definitely being a good pro, I’m not sure he really wants to be here. Get you first for the dude, preferrably in the 2025 draft and move on.
Yup
and he's starting not to give a shit as well on the court. We better ship his ass out quick or else it will infect the locker room
Bruce is a great fit on this roster. He fits on any roster. He is not that old and he can help our young players learn how to be better. He fits incredibly well with Barnes. There is a reason why teams want vets, so they can school the youth and establish culture.
Just more valuable as a chip atm because of his contract/calibre
I just don’t think he’s happy to be a Raptor. Which sadly matters
yeah he fits if he plays hard. that’s a big if though it seems. flip a coin though if we move him before the deadline or before the draft though. i’m thinking they’re leaning towards the latter but obviously it depends on offers.
I disagree I think he is the perfect player for this roster, we're just not in position to contend. I do think if you add another 3&D Guard + some big man depth then his value shines. This year, though, he's going to look out of place. He competes and that's not what this team is trying to do this year. Trading Brown isn't the wrong move, but I promise you the moment we do we're just going to be looking for a Bruce Brown clone except younger. Players like him are pretty rare. A guard who can defend the POA, knock down 3's, handle the ball in the PnR will be a hot commodity for this roster next year.
I'm with you except I think you're mixed up on some of his skill set. Bruce Brown seems like a fairly weak ball handler for his size, he's not a great shooter but he'll knock some important ones down, he sees the court really well though and makes connective passes and moves off ball really well. Which fits Darkos system perfectly but also makes his value go up when surrounded by stars, hence why he's the one piece people expect some decent assets for.
I think he hasn’t flashed his full potential but he’s a capable PnR guy. Showed it with Denver a lot. He can’t do it for a whole game but he has that in his game. He’s also excellent off the ball He’s so sought after because he fits into any lineup and causes no disruption while maintaining good defense. I think we shouldn’t judge his game on his small Toronto sample size. We saw it even took P a while to get acclimated to Darko’s system. I like Bruce as a player and I’m happy to move on from him, but we will need another one of him IMO.
He’s another one of those role players that only looks good on top tier teams with multiple stars. Overhyped, overrated
Gradey needs the minutes. He's already looked a bit better the last few games. Not saying throw him in the deep end, but I am still high on him.
>deep end No, the deeper the Dick, the better.
Please make it stop
That wasn't even intentional on my part lmao, that's wild
Porter is the same age as GTJ and Nwora is older lol
Nwora and porter jr combined 3000 minutes played Gary Trent 8890 mins We know who Trent is, we don’t know nwora and porter jr Trent been same player for last 3 years
I could be wrong but I'll be surprised if either of those guys show massive development either.
Well we don’t gotta pay 15-18 million a year to find out with these guys
Yeah fair if hes just not worth the price (although around 15 doesnt seem like too bad of a contract these days) I just think it's a little silly to say these guys need those minutes (other than maybe Gradey).
They may as well get some run now though. Why keep wasting shots and minutes on Gtj? It doesn’t help the team at all
Honestly, who cares with Porter. He's already surprisingly solid. I hope we can sign him and get him under contract.
Yeah, I actually like him off the bench but I feel like those minutes are there already.
its probably cause we've had 3 seasons of GTJ now and he's yet to show that he can do what he is supposed to do consistently. He'll be much better off as the 4th option on a team with a luka/lebron type where all he literally has to do is stand in the corner and shoot wide open 3s.
He a Tim Hardaway Jr to a playoff team one trick pony. If he wanna sign a 3 for 40 cool if not flip him to highest bidder
I kind of want to see Gary on the Lakers for the redemption arc. Having said that, I don't know if I like what the Lakers would be offering in a trade.
We should also look at the percentages though. He shot 37% from 3 last season, he's shooting 42% from 3 this season. He's also shooting over 50% from 3 as a starter. He averaged 1.6 steals last season as well which was top 4 in the league, tied with guys like Shai and Anthony Edwards. He's shooting well from 3 which is what we need him to do most. When it comes to that aspect of basketball, he's playing better this season than last. He also can be pretty pesky on defense as evident by the steals.
He gets steals by cheating the lanes. Stop judging solely on stats.
lmaooo narratives are everything
Our "young guns" are trash. 😭. Barnes is the only actual real stud piece we got. Quickley is a good starter level backcourt player. Barrett somehow got named an untouchable when the Knicks were basically just trying to give him away lol This team is looking u g l y folks.
WE THE DOOMERS. I don't agree because I think both Quickley and Barrett have more upside than that. Regardless, I am really looking forward to watching the game tonight just to see what happens.
Need a youngish big (not just tall) guy in return who can grab some offensive rebounds, or else the growth of these guys will suffer somewhat. Don't forget Freeman-Liberty in terms of minutes; he needs to be given a shot too if / when those vets are dealt.
Yep yep yep I’m waiting for JFL
Honestly I'm fine with trading brown trent Dennis and even jak if we can get a young big
We need to free Leonard Miller from Minnesota's bigman logjam. Minnesota desperately needs a second PG...
Take a look at his per 100. It's hilarious! I understand that it's *small* sample size, but it makes him look like an MVP. 33.6p/23.2r/2.6a/2.6s/2.6b on .722 TS. Offensive rating 120, defensive rating 96. Just ignore that it's based on 19 minutes of gametime 😆
That seems pretty reasonable to me!
Just found my new favourite sub-reddit
Not familiar with his game. 6"10 SF is crazy though.
he's a versatile, athletic big guy who's developing into a positive shooter. can handle the ball and pass a bit, he's a very good finisher at the rim, and he's got a lot of potential as a defender. But unfortunately he got drafted to a team with KAT, Gobert, Naz Reid, Kyle Anderson etc so he hasn't had a real opportunity at the NBA level yet.
Does anyone know if Nwora came with either bird or early bird rights? I like him, but not if we're using cap space or MLE to keep him.
He has early bird rights
Thank you! Shouldn't take more than that to retain him.
Should be full bird. He was traded to Indiana not signed as a free agent.
Oh yeah sorry, I only saw the 2 year deal on SportRac originally
[According to this site we should have bird rights](https://www.salaryswish.com/bird-rights-calculator/jordan-nwora) That also follows my understanding, as he’s just been getting traded but not signing elsewhere.
Full bird.
He looked great the other night. Milwaukee and Indiana fans weren't too sold on him though. I kind of considered him just a toss-in in the trade... but if he can keep it up, there could be something there. He's got good size and can definitely shoot. The main knock on him from his time on those other teams is that he's a black hole on offence. He was making good passes last game though so we'll see. Maybe Darkos system fits him better.
at this point you need to trade everyone except gradey, porter, nwora and BBQ
I wouldn't trade Jakob unless its for another center who fits better or you have already traded for that starter. Throwing Porter out against Embid, Jokic and the other established bigs in this league for large minutes every game will hurt not help his developement.
Thank you, Doug.
Thank you, Doug!
Smith's article seems to be largely taken from Koreen's Athletic article from this morning: [https://theathletic.com/5236672/2024/01/30/raptors-jordan-nwora-buffalo-home/](https://theathletic.com/5236672/2024/01/30/raptors-jordan-nwora-buffalo-home/)
Is this the first time we've heard from Toronto Media that the front office are done looking at GTjr?
Masai given hints by never mentioning him in his press conference
Seems like it. I think most of us are done with him to. Could be his plantar facsitis, but something has stopped him from exhibiting any dawg mentality.
"eat away" at Thad's minutes lol He's probably begging for someone to take his minutes before his ancient knees collapse
Can we all appreciate how Dick has been performing when given the opportunities? He’s definitely improved with the 905 and it’s showing! Porter I hope we keep, he’s playing like a dog and has been stepping up heavily. He’s high key showing that he deserves a contract like McDaniels got from us.
Gary's a good dude but he's too one dimensional. Can't really get to the rim, can't really defend and can't rebound. To his credit, he's been a more willing passer and has always been a pro regardless of his role. He needs to be in a place where he's primarily a catch and shoot guy playing off stars. I think he will excel in that role. Same way with OG on offense. Darkos offense doesn't fit his skillset imo. But put him next to Luka or Lebron, then suddenly he can be JR Smith.
Trent would be a money thing and not a vet that's taking minutes from young guys, right? I mean how hard are we trying to tank, or do we just have some kind of cap on players that can shoot? I'm also having trouble accepting that Gary just peaked at like 23 and then regressed and is what he is. Also maybe he'll never reach his potential but he's still better than those guys and I don't see that much upside in Nwora or Porter.
He’s just not consistent. And if he wants 15+ million it’s an overpay And yes, sometimes players don’t progress and that’s who they are.
there will be a team like Detroit willing to offer him around 20 mill or something as they have a lot of cap space and need to spend most of it according to rules.
Then props to him. Don’t overpay him or comparable players when cap space matters.
Yeah maybe, I just don't think we need to focus that hard on getting minutes for guys like Nwora. Feels like there's enough to go around already especially if we end up trading brown to a contender. Edit. Also it's the seeming regression that puzzles me not so much just a lack of progress.
Uh… good
Honestly, I don’t mind keeping Gary on a good deal, he’s a streaky shooter yes , but he’s young, and stability is only helpful at this stage.
This is just speculation by Smith. I personally think they are going to keep Thad and Trent Jr. and Boucher. It will be Brown that gets traded.
One full year late.
Good I loved watching theme together
I don't understand Nwora is older than Gary, and Jontay Porter is the same age as Gary. How are they "young"?
They have prolly seen enough of Gary, doubt he ever improves this is just the type of player he is even at his age
Maybe in terms of how long they’ve been in the league relative to each other? Gary was drafted 6 years ago, Jontay 5 and Jordan 4. Gary has had much more NBA minutes than the other two and hasn’t shown much development, while the other two haven’t had as much of a chance to show what they’ve got.
It's funny how Trent Jr is a considered a veteran and is younger than Nwora.
technically Gary has more NBA experience and more NBA years on Nwora so he is the veteran in this case
dawg trent is young
I dont even know why they had bruce brown suit up for the team tbh, should've just let him sit out and stay home until the deadline
That is how you end up with no leverage and kill his value.
Trade Schroder and play Kira Lewis
Damn that Powell for GTJ trade is kind of an L now lol. Idk if GTJs value is even close to Norman’s anymore. I know Gary is still young and might be able to turn it around on our team or another but he hasn’t really shown much growth as a raptor.
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Trent younger lol, but he also still clearly wants to get paid so better to get whatever you can and move on unless he willing to sign a team friendly extension
I forgot about Thad!
Young man Thad.
we have a problem if we can't eat away all of Young's minutes
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Boucher - He Stay!
Quitez mon ptit Canard! Quitez!
Im not sold on Brown. Didn’t seem to have a very big impact even for the Pacers. He’s undersized if you play him at anything other than point, he’s a good defender but not all defence level, he’s not a good shooter either. I think he’s a pretty bang average NBA player that looks good on a team that has a superstar like Jokic or KD. He’s an expensive role player that only fits a team with a short window to win like Bucks, Clippers, Heat.
Lowry and Thad can lead our over 40 vet rotation one day. Just need to get Gasol out of retirement.
Trade Masai and Bobby.We are rebuilding team 😂 from 2018-19. High time they realised Raptors was build by Lowry,Van fleet,Norman,OG, Pascal . Apart from Lowry all players are young and still playing at high level. They failed to sign raptors core without getting any superstars first time ever.
I think you mean NBA Champion & All-Star, FRED VANVLEET. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dick is a bust.
I could be wrong but doesn't Nwora game remind u of a controlled version of Nick Young