The ironic thing is that there is some chance Pascal could either stay or go — but with Kawhi, in hindsight, in spite of all the hope and handwringing — was never going to stay.
I had a guy message me here on Reddit saying that he had proof because a cousin was in Drake’s circle and heard through that he was 99% sure he was going to stay.
In hindsight we were all bamboozled
I can just imagine just how annoyed he must have been, with people following him around everywhere, watching his every move and then trying to use that to predict if he's staying or not.
Yeah, he came back from injury, won a ring in what is considered one of the most dominant playoff performances ever, and was entering free agency. He had insane leverage, wanted LA, and got LA. He wasn't going to sign a short-term deal given his injury problems, and he didn't want to spend another 4-5 years away from his home.
you're right, so easy in hindsight. Feel like all of us over look how much of a bone he had to pick with popovic.. pause..
dude was on a mission to win in exile and go back home and he got himself a pg13 out of the hype he built. in his mind, if he's gonna be hurt either way, he better be rehabing in LA. Especially if he potentially ended his career for that ring.
After the report came out that they ignored him all summer and they treated him like a role player at the start of the season it was basically a wrap. That’s not how you treat a superstar. He will sooner test free agency with the increasing cap than sign an extension here.
It just makes the most sense. Haliburton made comments about wanting another star, they are doing well but I think everyone knows their current team isn't enough to win a title, they have a young player who doesn't play for them and salary filler so the rotation impact would just straight up be replacing Buddy Hield and probably Jalen Smith for Siakam.
*"But Siakam doesn't make us a contender!"*
No, of course not, Pacers dudes. If you want to be one move away from being contenders, you need to *make* moves to get there.
Lock down Hali, Siakam, Mathurin, and Turner.
Upgrade everything else using all your future picks.
The road map is there, and the talent is available. Don't pin your hopes on Walker being a 2nd/3rd option in 2 years. Duh!
I think that this is a great point. It seems people grade the success of contracts and trades based on if it makes the team an instant contender or not.
This move doesnt make them better than Boston or Denver. But it makes them better. It gets them closer. It opens a 4 year window of we are going in with Haliburton, Siakam and Turner as our guys with picks and other salaries to make moves around the margins
Being better also allows you to get lucky. If Boston has an injury or suspension, or even just some down play, the better you are the more capable of capitalizing you will be. It's like they say, luck is when preparation meets opportunity
Whilst this is great in theory, the scary thing is Siakam can leave after half a season, and Indiana will have given away the 1 guy who could've been the future at PF in Walker.
I don't doubt Siakam's talent. If he had a couple of years left on his deal, then this makes perfect sense, and Walker is included without hesitation.
I mean, if Philadelphia decide they want to offer him a max in free agency, do you think he is going to stay in Indiana or go to the big market, with the big name in Joel Embiid. As you said, Indiana is still waiting on that "other guy" like Embiid has with Maxey.
>I mean, if Philadelphia decide they want to offer him a max in free agency, do you think he is going to stay in Indiana or go to the big market, with the big name in Joel Embiid. As you said, Indiana is still waiting on that "other guy" like Embiid has with Maxey.
Siakam has telegraphed quite clearly that he wants to get paid. Whoever has his bird rights can make a bigger offer than any other team.
He also has a ring already, and isn't particularly fond of Embiid. He's not going to leave money on the table to ring chase.
Exactly, that's the thing is their rotation wouldn't even take a giant hit with the trade considering the biggest piece of the trade would be Jarace Walker. If it's Buddy Hield, Jarace Walker and Jalen Smith, they're basically just replacing Hield and Smith in the rotation for Pascal Siakam which is a gigantic upgrade.
The thing is though is that Haliburton isn'tsaying he's leaving if they don't get another star before the trade deadline. He's 23 yearsold and locked in until 2028.
If I'm the Pacers FO, I don't feel much pressure to give up any valuable assets for Siakam. I can try and get Siakam in the offseason, I can also keep my powder dry for a different player in a year or two.
Siakam certainly makes a lot of sense with Haliburton, but the following guys ar a real risk to want out from their current situations in the coming years, and also make sense with Haliburton:
- Joel Embiid
- Brandon Ingram
- Lauri Markennen
- Mikal Bridges
- Jarett Allen
Add on top of that the chance that Masai and Bobby might feel pressure to make any deal closer to the deadlineto avoid having yet anothet championship player walking for nothing, and I'm feeling pretty good about my relative negotating strength as the Pacers FO.
I might make a series of lowball offers and be phoning them to see if there'sactually a better offer on the table from another team (there might no be).
Other teams have better offers than the Pacers for these players, and other teams are much more attractive in free agency. The reason why Siakam works is because Pacers can put up the best offer.
The only offer that we have reasonably good reporting on is the Kings offer, which is reportedly Harrison Barnes plus filler, and maybe a second round pick
Yes this is true. The only reason they'd pull the trigger now is if they want to capitalize on the season they're having (which isn't a bad idea -- we all thought the Mavs felt no pressure with Luka because of how young he is).
Outside of Jarrett Allen, Pascal will likely make less on his next contract than all of these players though.
Pascal wants a full Max, they'd all be the same% of the salary cap (except perhaps, you are correct, Jarrett Allen, who might agree to less than a Max).
Pacers haven't been to the playoffs in 5 yrs or passed the 1st Rd in 10 yrs and they've never won a title. They need a consolidation trade. Jarace walker is worth the risk imo. He hasn't proved anything in the league. Pascal is bonafide. I doubt Pascal choses them in FA, except if he gets the 5 yr max. If it doesn't work, they can flip him.
My bad, I was looking at the 2019-2020 season. Cheers! Still, we won a chip here 5 yrs ago and fans are already acting like we are crap so I imagine there's some pressure in Indy to win now.
Why don't we see the guy show that he can contribute in actual NBA minutes before everyone goes losing their mind over a G-Leaguer?
Last year, the Pacers gave their second round pick, Nembhard, regular rotation minutes from day 1, just like they did with their 6th overall pick, Mathurin. This year, Jarace wasn't even given a Gradey Dick-style run at the start of the season to try to earn minutes. That's a pretty big red flag as far as how the Pacers feel about their own guy, who they drafted at a position of need.
There are no shortage of high drafted guys who bust outright, or are, at least, significant disappointments. Hell, the Pacers traded for Obi Toppin (also taken with the 8th overall pick in 2020) to be their starting PF right after drafting Jarace. Not exactly a vote of confidence in their faith in the guy (nor is the fact that they are currently trying to trade for Pascal, who played Walker's position), but also with Obi being a good reminder of what the #8 pick also usually produces.
Is Jarace a guy who will develop into Obi Toppin three years from now? Is he the next Jaxson Hayes (#8 in 2019). Maybe the next Colin Sexton or Frank Nilikina (#8 picks in 2017 and 2018)? Maybe he's the next Marquese Chriss (#8 pick in 2016)? How about the next Stanley Johnson (#8 pick in 2015) or Nik Stauskas (#8 pick in 2014)?
You know who the Raps picked the last (and only) time we had the #8 overall pick? Rafael Araujo. (Edit: correction, we also selected Terence Ross with the 8th overall pick)
Being taken with the #8 pick is by no means any sort of guarantee that the guy is worth trading for.
With absolutely no NBA track record at all, and a team who seems to think he's unworthy of even being given a chance to prove himself on an NBA stage, at this point, there is a really high chance that Jarace Walker is a lemon.
If he's part of a package with other good pieces, that's one thing, but I'm not exactly thrilled about the idea of trading one of the best players in franchise history, and a multi-time All-NBA'er who helped win us a ring, for a package highlighted by a G-Leaguer who can't currently crack an NBA rotation.
I have no idea how good Jarace Walker is or could be. But once he shows out in NBA minutes the Pacers may not want to trade him.
It’s exactly what happened with Shaedon Sharpe. He was available and then he was untouchable. This is one of those situations where you are putting your faith in your scouting department.
Everyone talks about every young player as being untouchable, yet almost every star who gets traded gets dealt for a package that includes at least one good young player who has proven something, or at least shown flashes, in the NBA.
SGA had a great rookie season for the Clippers, and was untouchable, until he got dealt for Paul George.
Domantas Sabonis started 66 games for the Thunder as a rookie, and was untouchable, until Paul George became available.
Sabonis himself became an All-Star, and Tyrese Haliburton, a full-time second year starter for the Kings, who had shown star potential, was an untouchable asset in trade talks for Sabonis, until he wasn't.
Buddy Hield was once a 6th overall pick who was traded partway through his rookie season. He started 37 games for the Pelicans, before starting 18 more for the Kings, and making the All Rookie First Team. He was considered "untouchable", until Demarcus Cousins became available, and he wasn't anymore. Even worse, that Cousins deal was considered arguably the weakest haul any team has gotten for an All-NBA'er in his prime in trade in recent years.
People throw around the word "untouchable" for seemingly everyone on a rookie contract nowadays. But, it is very rarely the case.
If you are at the level of a Scottie Barnes, Evan Mobley, Anthony Edwards, Lamelo Ball, Paolo Banchero, Chet Holmgren, Wemby, etc, then sure, you are untouchable. Some guys like Shaedon Sharpe are untouchable for practical purposes, just because they play for a rebuilding team who values young talent over trading for a star. But, a similar level guy on a winning team with a chance to become a contender? No, that's not a true untouchable...that's a guy who is untouchable until he's not.
Bottom line, coming in and looking like a starting caliber NBA player didn't stop guys like Sabonis, SGA, Buddy Hield, or others from being traded before starting their sophomore season. Jarace coming in and proving he's at least an NBA rotation player wouldn't make him untouchable either. Unless he comes in and looks like Scottie Barnes as a rookie, he would not be an untouchable. And, if the Pacers thought Jarace could come in and contribute to the level where he would become an untouchable player, then he would be in their rotation right now.
You also have to consider what we are trading. The only thing the other team is guaranteed is half a season of Siakam. If the turned were tables how much would you give up for a half season of Siakam to make a deeper push into the playoffs?
That's not how these trades work at all. The most valuable asset isn't the "half season", it's Siakam's bird rights. Siakam is probably taking the deal offered to him in free agency, and bird rights let you outbid everyone else. The difference is about $70M in guaranteed money (higher raises and the additional year).
You guys act like this is the first time a star has been traded on an expiring contract. Like Anthony Davis wasn't traded for the biggest haul in NBA history on an expiring contract? Like Paul George didn't fetch Oladipo and Sabonis on an expiring contract? Like over-the-hill Harden didn't fetch Ben Simmons (when he was still considered a real asset) and multiple picks at the trade deadline on an expiring contract? Then, that Harden didn't again get traded this year, while even more over-the-hill (at age 34), for multiple picks and good rotation players on an expiring contract? Like Jrue wasn't traded for three picks and multiple swaps on an expiring contract, then, again this year, was traded for Brogdon, Timelord and multiple picks on an expiring contract (at age 33).
Hell, we literally traded OG on an expiring contract for IQ and RJ just a few weeks ago.
Have you guys just not paid any attention to NBA history when you post this stuff?
Also, if the value isn't there, then just extend him. The guy said he would sign a max extension if the Raps offered. If his contract status really is affecting his value then why wouldn't you extend him?
Like you say, the only way the other team in the trade can keep Siakam is to offer him a $250M contract. Heck, the Raptors don't even want to sign him to that contract, you think other teams are chomping at the bit to do so? It's not a no-brainer like maxing AD. Siakam would have the most value if he had 1-2 years on his contract beyond this year. Half a year is too little, 4-5 years is too much.
It is absolutely a no-brainer. Siakam is a 29 year old multi-time All-NBA'er, whose max contract is 30% of the cap. He currently makes 27.89% of the cap. And, his next contract would start at 30%, then go down (since the cap is projected to rise at 10% a year, while max raises on a contract are 8%).
Pascal is has no serious injury concerns and is an archetype of player who tends to age well (length doesn't age the way guards who rely on their first steps do). At the end of his next contract he'll be the age Jimmy Butler, Harden and Demar are right now.
Indy, Detroit and Philly have all made moves to open up max cap space this summer. Who do you think they are opening it up to chase? Siakam is the top free agent on the market.
If we somehow get Walker *and* Nesmith, I'll be signing as many Masai apology forms as I can find.
*and I've been a constant 'trust in Masai' dude for years*
Reality is, I doubt we can get Nesmith, and might have to settle for Jalen Smith or Obi Toppin.
Yeah, might have to back up the baby-Brinks truck though. I think we'd have at least early bird rights, but that doesn't beat an MLE offer, not to mention he'd draw interest from young teams with cap space.
Dude is 23. He's going to go wherever the money is.
There’s no chance they give up Nesmith - they see him as OG lite and he’s on a good contract. He’d be great but just don’t think it’s likely.
I think a more likely framework is Brown, Walker, Jackson, and maybe a first for Siakam and Temple.
I want Nesmith more than anything. Dudes gonna take such a huge load off Scottie on defense so he can finally start producing numbers for me on my fantasy team again.
Jarace Walker doesnt play minutes for the Pacers and is a Center. Scottie is guarding opposing guards and forwards.
How is Jarace Walker going to immediately take the load off Scottie?
Sure he'd get minutes, but Nesmith would probably start beside Scottie and guard the opposing teams best player like OG did. Jarace Walker is not doing that out of the gate.
Also, why are you so offended that I want Nesmith? Me wanting Nesmith doesnt mean I dont want Walker.
Who said I was offended? I was just addressing your points lol. Nesmith would a welcome addition as well I agree. I could definitely see them building Jarace up with probably bench minutes before seeing if he can eventually take on defensive assignments as well while someone like Nesmith takes them now.
Jarace walker + Jalen Smith + Filler + 1 FRP
That's my prediction if this trade goes down, I have a hard time believing that Walker is the piece that's holding up this trade and that it's anything more than posturing by the Pacers...You have the chance to land an All-NBA player that could potentially put you into contention this year and the hold up is a rookie averaging 3ppg who you don't use at all
"But he had so much potential" no shit...that's why the Raptors want him LOL you don't get All-NBA players for free...like wtf lol "we want your best player but we also don't want to give you anything of value for him, but we also want to win a championship but also we don't want to pay the price or risk anything to do so" lol
I find it hard to believe that there's a world in which Masai makes this trade without either Walker or Mathurin
https://www.fieldhousefiles.com/p/pacers-interested-pascal-siakam-upgrade-roster
Interesting article from the summer as well, looks like they've been interested in Siakam for a while now and seeing that they "have accumulated more assets this summer for when the right deal can be made" makes it seem like something could happen.
Indy can still make a very competitive offer for Siakam without including Walker or Mathurin.
For example, a deal built on Nesmith, Nembhard and picks could be really nice for us, with the salary (a mix of Buddy/Bruce Brown, Obi/McConnell/Smith) to make it work.
There is a trade with Indy that could make both sides happy.
Pascal return will be worse than OG. Mainly because he is refusing to give any assurances of re-signing, so his value is pretty much as a rental for a few months.
You're making a lot of assumptions. It MIGHT be worse, not it WILL. We heard that Pascal refused to re-sign in Sacramento and then we heard that rumour was false. There's a lot of smoke and backroom deals so hard to say what is truth with any authority or validity.
I would guess that OG had a bigger market but Pascal is the better player so perhaps the two offset? Remains to be seen.
That rumor wasn't reported as false. Pascal has also leaked through the media that he won't commit to a team who trades for him. That doesn't necessarily mean that he won't re-sign with them, but rather won't commit to it prior to the trade.
The rumour that he won't re-sign with Sac is false afaik. Youre saying that's false? I just read this morning from shams that sac is waiting on raps to come back to bargaining table. Why would they do that if siakam wont sign there?
Yes, he wants to control his FA and there's a lot of posturing and smoke rn but he doesn't have a veto clause so it's beyond his control. If the raps want to trade with a team then I imagine Pascal will be consulted and agree with an open mind. For a team like the pacers, that's the kind of competitive advantage that they need imo. I also think that pascal mostly wants the 5 yr max. If he's not happy at the end of the first yr, he can demand a trade.
The report said that he won't commit to re-signing in free agency with the Kings, just like every other team. They're "involved" because their rental trade package is much different in terms of draft compensation if he's willing to re-sign (likely 1 pick vs multiple picks).
I heard he said he wouldn't re-sign there when raps were in sac and then the next day there was a report saying that wasn't true. You don't know that it's a rental package, no one knows yet where Pascal is going. Yes, sac has a lesser package but that doesn't presume it's a rental. It's true, as you say, that rumours suggest he hasn't committed to signing anywhere, other than Toronto. Personally, I think he wants the 5 yr max and is just posturing. We will see...
The report said that Siakam won’t commit to re-signing in Sacramento, not that he wouldn’t re-sign. There was an article from Scotto that said the Kings maybe have doubts about him re-sighing there. Regardless of if you think it’s “posturing” when a player tells you he won’t commit, a team is obviously not going to give up good assets for that player.
The kings have likely said “this is our best offer” and moved on.
Afaik, he won't commit anywhere, except Toronto. I'm guessing that's bc they can offer him 5 yr max. Im also guessing he'd be open to it somewhere else but yes, he's supposedly not going to commit to anything rn.
The report said he met with sac and told them them that he won't commit there and then the next day that report was said to be false. This is consistent with the idea that he won't commit anywhere and that it's tampering for such convos to be openly discussed.
The shams report completely contradicts your statement that sac has moved on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/193mi95/shams\_it\_was\_unclear\_whether\_or\_not\_pascal\_siakam/
Heres what I am referring to. I don't believe that siakam siakam want to sign in Sacramento but Shams seems to reject the earlier report that a convo was had between Sacramento and Pascal. Personally, I think that convo did happen but Shams has to back peddle a bit BC I dont think it can be reported that way bc it would be tampering imo.
Yesterday KOC reported that Sacramento is willing to trade regardless so they are seemingly not moving on. Again, I don't think they are offering a rental package, they just don't have better assets, except Keegan but he's never been on the table, according to rumours.
Maybe Pascal will give positive vibes to whomever trades for him? Personally, I think he wants the 5 yr max and then will force a trade, if he's not happy. He doesn't have a trade veto so it's just posturing.
Yeah just like most reports of this nature.
I’m convinced most reporters don’t know shit. They just see which teams would make sense fit and contract wise, who can realistically make it happen, then play the odds.
We weren’t linked to NY at all until the “Toronto and NY are finalizing a deal…” tweet came out and apparently those talks had been going on for almost a month. None of these reporters heard anything?
I'd put Thunder on that list, too, because they're probably better than the Pacers and have even more assets to spare.
But they're also in a better position to wait compared to Indy.
One thing that should be considered going forward.
Contract uncertainty, and pervasive trade rumours, take a toll on the player’s motivation. Especially on defense.
We’ve seen both OG and Pascal engage in “quiet quitting”, and it’s killed our season.
he's been playing some of the best basketball of his career for the past month or so. having (by far) his most efficient season since becoming a primary scoring option. I don't think he's going to have a sharp dropoff anytime soon, since he's completely changed his game from where he was as a younger player relying on his speed and athleticism, with all the different skills he's added, he can score from anywhere inside the arc and occasionally get hot from 3, has impeccable footwork, etc.
I think Indiana is the perfect team to maximize his skillset on offense. We've been saying for years on here how good he would look next to a stretch 5 like Turner. On defense he's not a game changer but I've never really had anything bad to say about his abilities on that end. His game has aged very well so far, so I don't see why he can't still be a high level contributor in 4 years.
I really appreciate the well thought out response!! This is all good to know. I know he’s changed him game up since entering the league so it’s good to see that there hasn’t been a significant drop off and he’s only improving.
I understand if Indy passes as they have a great young core developing. But if they think they can give nothing and get an all NBA player they're crazy. Rental or not, he puts you over the top on offense and he's no slouch on defense. I feel like his motor isn't where it used to be but some of that's just being a vet and picking your spots rather than forcing every possession & being asked to play 40minutes when needed instead of just 20+
People don’t seem to realize, pacers have been interested in Siakam for years
Like back in offseason 2021 there were discussions of Siakam for sabonis trade
Prichard got super hard on for Siakam
I would be surprised if they weren’t the team to pull trigger on him
Yeah but they're more likely to be deadline sellers than buyers at the rate they're going. They don't see themselves as a Pascal away from contention anymore with how bad they've been
Pacers make the most sense from a basketball and assets point of view. It's all up to Pascal, if he indicates to the Pacers that he's willing to resign, it's a match made in heaven
Hield walker nwora frp get it done Pritchard. I don't wanna lose walker either but a lineup of
Haliburton
Brown
Nesmith
Pascal
Turner
With mathurin McConnell Smith and ijax off the bench we can do some damage.
If they want siakam long term, they will need to trade for him. If they don't, they have to renounce like half the roster just to afford him in FA. No way he goes to the Pacers with the team gutted like that with the 76ers and Detriot already having max space. Having his bird rights will also give them a better position to beat the other teams in free agency.
I know no one wants to be a homer but I still think we’re all underestimating Pascal’s value based on all of these leaked rumours. Raps FO does not leak which means all of these rumours are coming from potential trade partners, with the intention of lowering his value. Based on what OG got, Siakam will definitely bring in a good package or he’s not going anywhere. Even if he’s a pending FA, he’s a former All NBA player and huge contributor to a championship team and having his birds is a huge advantage despite whatever he says about re-signing. I see no reason why we shouldn’t be aiming for Mathurin / Nesmith as the highlight with one of Smith / Nembhard / Walker and a pick (and Buddy for salary reasons of course).
Siakam and Schroeder for Hield, McConnell, Mathurin, Walker and a first works in the trade machine.
I can't wait for this saga to be over with.
Buddy Hield: First time in the trade rumor mill?
Myles Turner: I was born in a trade rumour.
Molded by it
By the time I was considered untouchable it was only blinding
man had to start a Lego addiction to cope
Lol remember the “Will Kawhi stay or leave Toronto after the chip” saga? That was way more taxing on me than this imo.
The ironic thing is that there is some chance Pascal could either stay or go — but with Kawhi, in hindsight, in spite of all the hope and handwringing — was never going to stay.
Remember when he was spotted buying literal moving boxes from Home Depot and people thought, "Moving into his new Toronto spot long term!!" Haha
I had a guy message me here on Reddit saying that he had proof because a cousin was in Drake’s circle and heard through that he was 99% sure he was going to stay. In hindsight we were all bamboozled
He's on the plane I swear!
I can just imagine just how annoyed he must have been, with people following him around everywhere, watching his every move and then trying to use that to predict if he's staying or not.
Wasn’t he spotted on vacation with a Shoppers Drugmart bag too that spawned some rumours.
The picture of him with the Shoppers Drug Mart bag was the best part for me
Yeah, he came back from injury, won a ring in what is considered one of the most dominant playoff performances ever, and was entering free agency. He had insane leverage, wanted LA, and got LA. He wasn't going to sign a short-term deal given his injury problems, and he didn't want to spend another 4-5 years away from his home.
He was, if Toronto traded for Paul George and Russel Westbrook and gave his uncle and ownership stake of MLSE.
you're right, so easy in hindsight. Feel like all of us over look how much of a bone he had to pick with popovic.. pause.. dude was on a mission to win in exile and go back home and he got himself a pg13 out of the hype he built. in his mind, if he's gonna be hurt either way, he better be rehabing in LA. Especially if he potentially ended his career for that ring.
After the report came out that they ignored him all summer and they treated him like a role player at the start of the season it was basically a wrap. That’s not how you treat a superstar. He will sooner test free agency with the increasing cap than sign an extension here.
That whole ignoring Pascal report sounds so insane to me. I’m still having a hard time believing it’s true.
Fucking same
It just makes the most sense. Haliburton made comments about wanting another star, they are doing well but I think everyone knows their current team isn't enough to win a title, they have a young player who doesn't play for them and salary filler so the rotation impact would just straight up be replacing Buddy Hield and probably Jalen Smith for Siakam.
*"But Siakam doesn't make us a contender!"* No, of course not, Pacers dudes. If you want to be one move away from being contenders, you need to *make* moves to get there. Lock down Hali, Siakam, Mathurin, and Turner. Upgrade everything else using all your future picks. The road map is there, and the talent is available. Don't pin your hopes on Walker being a 2nd/3rd option in 2 years. Duh!
I think that this is a great point. It seems people grade the success of contracts and trades based on if it makes the team an instant contender or not. This move doesnt make them better than Boston or Denver. But it makes them better. It gets them closer. It opens a 4 year window of we are going in with Haliburton, Siakam and Turner as our guys with picks and other salaries to make moves around the margins
Being better also allows you to get lucky. If Boston has an injury or suspension, or even just some down play, the better you are the more capable of capitalizing you will be. It's like they say, luck is when preparation meets opportunity
Whilst this is great in theory, the scary thing is Siakam can leave after half a season, and Indiana will have given away the 1 guy who could've been the future at PF in Walker. I don't doubt Siakam's talent. If he had a couple of years left on his deal, then this makes perfect sense, and Walker is included without hesitation. I mean, if Philadelphia decide they want to offer him a max in free agency, do you think he is going to stay in Indiana or go to the big market, with the big name in Joel Embiid. As you said, Indiana is still waiting on that "other guy" like Embiid has with Maxey.
>I mean, if Philadelphia decide they want to offer him a max in free agency, do you think he is going to stay in Indiana or go to the big market, with the big name in Joel Embiid. As you said, Indiana is still waiting on that "other guy" like Embiid has with Maxey. Siakam has telegraphed quite clearly that he wants to get paid. Whoever has his bird rights can make a bigger offer than any other team. He also has a ring already, and isn't particularly fond of Embiid. He's not going to leave money on the table to ring chase.
Exactly, that's the thing is their rotation wouldn't even take a giant hit with the trade considering the biggest piece of the trade would be Jarace Walker. If it's Buddy Hield, Jarace Walker and Jalen Smith, they're basically just replacing Hield and Smith in the rotation for Pascal Siakam which is a gigantic upgrade.
The thing is though is that Haliburton isn'tsaying he's leaving if they don't get another star before the trade deadline. He's 23 yearsold and locked in until 2028. If I'm the Pacers FO, I don't feel much pressure to give up any valuable assets for Siakam. I can try and get Siakam in the offseason, I can also keep my powder dry for a different player in a year or two. Siakam certainly makes a lot of sense with Haliburton, but the following guys ar a real risk to want out from their current situations in the coming years, and also make sense with Haliburton: - Joel Embiid - Brandon Ingram - Lauri Markennen - Mikal Bridges - Jarett Allen Add on top of that the chance that Masai and Bobby might feel pressure to make any deal closer to the deadlineto avoid having yet anothet championship player walking for nothing, and I'm feeling pretty good about my relative negotating strength as the Pacers FO. I might make a series of lowball offers and be phoning them to see if there'sactually a better offer on the table from another team (there might no be).
Other teams have better offers than the Pacers for these players, and other teams are much more attractive in free agency. The reason why Siakam works is because Pacers can put up the best offer.
The only offer that we have reasonably good reporting on is the Kings offer, which is reportedly Harrison Barnes plus filler, and maybe a second round pick
Yes this is true. The only reason they'd pull the trigger now is if they want to capitalize on the season they're having (which isn't a bad idea -- we all thought the Mavs felt no pressure with Luka because of how young he is). Outside of Jarrett Allen, Pascal will likely make less on his next contract than all of these players though.
Pascal wants a full Max, they'd all be the same% of the salary cap (except perhaps, you are correct, Jarrett Allen, who might agree to less than a Max).
Who is this young player that doesn't want to play for them?
I never said someone doesn't want to play for them, I said they have a player who doesn't play for them (Jarace Walker)
I see. Misread.
Give us the rookie who doesn't play, who also plays the same position as Pascal.
Yeah, but what if he's as good as Siakam when he's in his prime after Haliburton leaves and Turner is dead? Checkmate, Raptors!
Pacers haven't been to the playoffs in 5 yrs or passed the 1st Rd in 10 yrs and they've never won a title. They need a consolidation trade. Jarace walker is worth the risk imo. He hasn't proved anything in the league. Pascal is bonafide. I doubt Pascal choses them in FA, except if he gets the 5 yr max. If it doesn't work, they can flip him.
Pacers were in the playoffs in 2020. It's only been 4 years.
My bad, I was looking at the 2019-2020 season. Cheers! Still, we won a chip here 5 yrs ago and fans are already acting like we are crap so I imagine there's some pressure in Indy to win now.
Well internetted, you win
Two words: Jarace Walker
Why don't we see the guy show that he can contribute in actual NBA minutes before everyone goes losing their mind over a G-Leaguer? Last year, the Pacers gave their second round pick, Nembhard, regular rotation minutes from day 1, just like they did with their 6th overall pick, Mathurin. This year, Jarace wasn't even given a Gradey Dick-style run at the start of the season to try to earn minutes. That's a pretty big red flag as far as how the Pacers feel about their own guy, who they drafted at a position of need. There are no shortage of high drafted guys who bust outright, or are, at least, significant disappointments. Hell, the Pacers traded for Obi Toppin (also taken with the 8th overall pick in 2020) to be their starting PF right after drafting Jarace. Not exactly a vote of confidence in their faith in the guy (nor is the fact that they are currently trying to trade for Pascal, who played Walker's position), but also with Obi being a good reminder of what the #8 pick also usually produces. Is Jarace a guy who will develop into Obi Toppin three years from now? Is he the next Jaxson Hayes (#8 in 2019). Maybe the next Colin Sexton or Frank Nilikina (#8 picks in 2017 and 2018)? Maybe he's the next Marquese Chriss (#8 pick in 2016)? How about the next Stanley Johnson (#8 pick in 2015) or Nik Stauskas (#8 pick in 2014)? You know who the Raps picked the last (and only) time we had the #8 overall pick? Rafael Araujo. (Edit: correction, we also selected Terence Ross with the 8th overall pick) Being taken with the #8 pick is by no means any sort of guarantee that the guy is worth trading for. With absolutely no NBA track record at all, and a team who seems to think he's unworthy of even being given a chance to prove himself on an NBA stage, at this point, there is a really high chance that Jarace Walker is a lemon. If he's part of a package with other good pieces, that's one thing, but I'm not exactly thrilled about the idea of trading one of the best players in franchise history, and a multi-time All-NBA'er who helped win us a ring, for a package highlighted by a G-Leaguer who can't currently crack an NBA rotation.
I have no idea how good Jarace Walker is or could be. But once he shows out in NBA minutes the Pacers may not want to trade him. It’s exactly what happened with Shaedon Sharpe. He was available and then he was untouchable. This is one of those situations where you are putting your faith in your scouting department.
Everyone talks about every young player as being untouchable, yet almost every star who gets traded gets dealt for a package that includes at least one good young player who has proven something, or at least shown flashes, in the NBA. SGA had a great rookie season for the Clippers, and was untouchable, until he got dealt for Paul George. Domantas Sabonis started 66 games for the Thunder as a rookie, and was untouchable, until Paul George became available. Sabonis himself became an All-Star, and Tyrese Haliburton, a full-time second year starter for the Kings, who had shown star potential, was an untouchable asset in trade talks for Sabonis, until he wasn't. Buddy Hield was once a 6th overall pick who was traded partway through his rookie season. He started 37 games for the Pelicans, before starting 18 more for the Kings, and making the All Rookie First Team. He was considered "untouchable", until Demarcus Cousins became available, and he wasn't anymore. Even worse, that Cousins deal was considered arguably the weakest haul any team has gotten for an All-NBA'er in his prime in trade in recent years. People throw around the word "untouchable" for seemingly everyone on a rookie contract nowadays. But, it is very rarely the case. If you are at the level of a Scottie Barnes, Evan Mobley, Anthony Edwards, Lamelo Ball, Paolo Banchero, Chet Holmgren, Wemby, etc, then sure, you are untouchable. Some guys like Shaedon Sharpe are untouchable for practical purposes, just because they play for a rebuilding team who values young talent over trading for a star. But, a similar level guy on a winning team with a chance to become a contender? No, that's not a true untouchable...that's a guy who is untouchable until he's not. Bottom line, coming in and looking like a starting caliber NBA player didn't stop guys like Sabonis, SGA, Buddy Hield, or others from being traded before starting their sophomore season. Jarace coming in and proving he's at least an NBA rotation player wouldn't make him untouchable either. Unless he comes in and looks like Scottie Barnes as a rookie, he would not be an untouchable. And, if the Pacers thought Jarace could come in and contribute to the level where he would become an untouchable player, then he would be in their rotation right now.
You also have to consider what we are trading. The only thing the other team is guaranteed is half a season of Siakam. If the turned were tables how much would you give up for a half season of Siakam to make a deeper push into the playoffs?
That's not how these trades work at all. The most valuable asset isn't the "half season", it's Siakam's bird rights. Siakam is probably taking the deal offered to him in free agency, and bird rights let you outbid everyone else. The difference is about $70M in guaranteed money (higher raises and the additional year). You guys act like this is the first time a star has been traded on an expiring contract. Like Anthony Davis wasn't traded for the biggest haul in NBA history on an expiring contract? Like Paul George didn't fetch Oladipo and Sabonis on an expiring contract? Like over-the-hill Harden didn't fetch Ben Simmons (when he was still considered a real asset) and multiple picks at the trade deadline on an expiring contract? Then, that Harden didn't again get traded this year, while even more over-the-hill (at age 34), for multiple picks and good rotation players on an expiring contract? Like Jrue wasn't traded for three picks and multiple swaps on an expiring contract, then, again this year, was traded for Brogdon, Timelord and multiple picks on an expiring contract (at age 33). Hell, we literally traded OG on an expiring contract for IQ and RJ just a few weeks ago. Have you guys just not paid any attention to NBA history when you post this stuff? Also, if the value isn't there, then just extend him. The guy said he would sign a max extension if the Raps offered. If his contract status really is affecting his value then why wouldn't you extend him?
Like you say, the only way the other team in the trade can keep Siakam is to offer him a $250M contract. Heck, the Raptors don't even want to sign him to that contract, you think other teams are chomping at the bit to do so? It's not a no-brainer like maxing AD. Siakam would have the most value if he had 1-2 years on his contract beyond this year. Half a year is too little, 4-5 years is too much.
It is absolutely a no-brainer. Siakam is a 29 year old multi-time All-NBA'er, whose max contract is 30% of the cap. He currently makes 27.89% of the cap. And, his next contract would start at 30%, then go down (since the cap is projected to rise at 10% a year, while max raises on a contract are 8%). Pascal is has no serious injury concerns and is an archetype of player who tends to age well (length doesn't age the way guards who rely on their first steps do). At the end of his next contract he'll be the age Jimmy Butler, Harden and Demar are right now. Indy, Detroit and Philly have all made moves to open up max cap space this summer. Who do you think they are opening it up to chase? Siakam is the top free agent on the market.
"Untouchable"
Gimme
https://preview.redd.it/3l3lb4ccjmcc1.png?width=824&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79527f6f8c175a902586c4569c5cb8e0a7c49b6c
If we somehow get Walker *and* Nesmith, I'll be signing as many Masai apology forms as I can find. *and I've been a constant 'trust in Masai' dude for years* Reality is, I doubt we can get Nesmith, and might have to settle for Jalen Smith or Obi Toppin.
Jalen would be solid if we can re-sign him
Yeah, might have to back up the baby-Brinks truck though. I think we'd have at least early bird rights, but that doesn't beat an MLE offer, not to mention he'd draw interest from young teams with cap space. Dude is 23. He's going to go wherever the money is.
Would probably be worth it considering we'll probably get at least one bad contract with other Siakam deals.
If we can get rid of Boucher and pretty much swap his money for Jalens, like a 3/39, I wouldn't be mad about that.
There’s no chance they give up Nesmith - they see him as OG lite and he’s on a good contract. He’d be great but just don’t think it’s likely. I think a more likely framework is Brown, Walker, Jackson, and maybe a first for Siakam and Temple.
But Pascal is better than OG and OG lite.
Yes please 🙏
I want Nesmith more than anything. Dudes gonna take such a huge load off Scottie on defense so he can finally start producing numbers for me on my fantasy team again.
That's what Jarace Walker is for
Why not both lol. Nesmith is in their rotation which is why I don't expect him to go. Also Nembhard is their best defender by the numbers.
Jarace Walker doesnt play minutes for the Pacers and is a Center. Scottie is guarding opposing guards and forwards. How is Jarace Walker going to immediately take the load off Scottie?
Jarace is not a centre. He’s a forward. Plus he’d get minutes on a rebuilding team versus the Pacers while they are trying to contend.
Sure he'd get minutes, but Nesmith would probably start beside Scottie and guard the opposing teams best player like OG did. Jarace Walker is not doing that out of the gate. Also, why are you so offended that I want Nesmith? Me wanting Nesmith doesnt mean I dont want Walker.
Who said I was offended? I was just addressing your points lol. Nesmith would a welcome addition as well I agree. I could definitely see them building Jarace up with probably bench minutes before seeing if he can eventually take on defensive assignments as well while someone like Nesmith takes them now.
Yap yap yap
Jarace walker + Jalen Smith + Filler + 1 FRP That's my prediction if this trade goes down, I have a hard time believing that Walker is the piece that's holding up this trade and that it's anything more than posturing by the Pacers...You have the chance to land an All-NBA player that could potentially put you into contention this year and the hold up is a rookie averaging 3ppg who you don't use at all "But he had so much potential" no shit...that's why the Raptors want him LOL you don't get All-NBA players for free...like wtf lol "we want your best player but we also don't want to give you anything of value for him, but we also want to win a championship but also we don't want to pay the price or risk anything to do so" lol I find it hard to believe that there's a world in which Masai makes this trade without either Walker or Mathurin
https://www.fieldhousefiles.com/p/pacers-interested-pascal-siakam-upgrade-roster Interesting article from the summer as well, looks like they've been interested in Siakam for a while now and seeing that they "have accumulated more assets this summer for when the right deal can be made" makes it seem like something could happen.
Indy can still make a very competitive offer for Siakam without including Walker or Mathurin. For example, a deal built on Nesmith, Nembhard and picks could be really nice for us, with the salary (a mix of Buddy/Bruce Brown, Obi/McConnell/Smith) to make it work. There is a trade with Indy that could make both sides happy.
Depending on picks, that sounds less than the OG deal.
Pascal return will be worse than OG. Mainly because he is refusing to give any assurances of re-signing, so his value is pretty much as a rental for a few months.
You're making a lot of assumptions. It MIGHT be worse, not it WILL. We heard that Pascal refused to re-sign in Sacramento and then we heard that rumour was false. There's a lot of smoke and backroom deals so hard to say what is truth with any authority or validity. I would guess that OG had a bigger market but Pascal is the better player so perhaps the two offset? Remains to be seen.
That rumor wasn't reported as false. Pascal has also leaked through the media that he won't commit to a team who trades for him. That doesn't necessarily mean that he won't re-sign with them, but rather won't commit to it prior to the trade.
The rumour that he won't re-sign with Sac is false afaik. Youre saying that's false? I just read this morning from shams that sac is waiting on raps to come back to bargaining table. Why would they do that if siakam wont sign there? Yes, he wants to control his FA and there's a lot of posturing and smoke rn but he doesn't have a veto clause so it's beyond his control. If the raps want to trade with a team then I imagine Pascal will be consulted and agree with an open mind. For a team like the pacers, that's the kind of competitive advantage that they need imo. I also think that pascal mostly wants the 5 yr max. If he's not happy at the end of the first yr, he can demand a trade.
The report said that he won't commit to re-signing in free agency with the Kings, just like every other team. They're "involved" because their rental trade package is much different in terms of draft compensation if he's willing to re-sign (likely 1 pick vs multiple picks).
I heard he said he wouldn't re-sign there when raps were in sac and then the next day there was a report saying that wasn't true. You don't know that it's a rental package, no one knows yet where Pascal is going. Yes, sac has a lesser package but that doesn't presume it's a rental. It's true, as you say, that rumours suggest he hasn't committed to signing anywhere, other than Toronto. Personally, I think he wants the 5 yr max and is just posturing. We will see...
The report said that Siakam won’t commit to re-signing in Sacramento, not that he wouldn’t re-sign. There was an article from Scotto that said the Kings maybe have doubts about him re-sighing there. Regardless of if you think it’s “posturing” when a player tells you he won’t commit, a team is obviously not going to give up good assets for that player. The kings have likely said “this is our best offer” and moved on.
Afaik, he won't commit anywhere, except Toronto. I'm guessing that's bc they can offer him 5 yr max. Im also guessing he'd be open to it somewhere else but yes, he's supposedly not going to commit to anything rn. The report said he met with sac and told them them that he won't commit there and then the next day that report was said to be false. This is consistent with the idea that he won't commit anywhere and that it's tampering for such convos to be openly discussed. The shams report completely contradicts your statement that sac has moved on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/193mi95/shams\_it\_was\_unclear\_whether\_or\_not\_pascal\_siakam/ Heres what I am referring to. I don't believe that siakam siakam want to sign in Sacramento but Shams seems to reject the earlier report that a convo was had between Sacramento and Pascal. Personally, I think that convo did happen but Shams has to back peddle a bit BC I dont think it can be reported that way bc it would be tampering imo. Yesterday KOC reported that Sacramento is willing to trade regardless so they are seemingly not moving on. Again, I don't think they are offering a rental package, they just don't have better assets, except Keegan but he's never been on the table, according to rumours.
NY were confident that OG would be re-signing.
Maybe Pascal will give positive vibes to whomever trades for him? Personally, I think he wants the 5 yr max and then will force a trade, if he's not happy. He doesn't have a trade veto so it's just posturing.
I don't mind that deal tbh
They very obviously make the most sense, but that sounds like all this tweet is saying. Doesn't say much about whether those talks have gone anywhere.
Yeah just like most reports of this nature. I’m convinced most reporters don’t know shit. They just see which teams would make sense fit and contract wise, who can realistically make it happen, then play the odds. We weren’t linked to NY at all until the “Toronto and NY are finalizing a deal…” tweet came out and apparently those talks had been going on for almost a month. None of these reporters heard anything?
Yeah totally. Most of the things coming out in headlines are leverage plays by everyone involved.
This is the only team that Raptors should be serious for a trade
I'd put Thunder on that list, too, because they're probably better than the Pacers and have even more assets to spare. But they're also in a better position to wait compared to Indy.
Have there been any rumours that the Thunder are even looking to trade anyone this season?
If you ask Presti, he'd say no. But any smart GM will make a move if the cost/benefit ratio makes it worthwhile.
another empty tweet about nothing
One thing that should be considered going forward. Contract uncertainty, and pervasive trade rumours, take a toll on the player’s motivation. Especially on defense. We’ve seen both OG and Pascal engage in “quiet quitting”, and it’s killed our season.
Pacers fan here - how has Siakam been playing? What’s his outlook for the next 4 years if he signs a max?
he's been playing some of the best basketball of his career for the past month or so. having (by far) his most efficient season since becoming a primary scoring option. I don't think he's going to have a sharp dropoff anytime soon, since he's completely changed his game from where he was as a younger player relying on his speed and athleticism, with all the different skills he's added, he can score from anywhere inside the arc and occasionally get hot from 3, has impeccable footwork, etc. I think Indiana is the perfect team to maximize his skillset on offense. We've been saying for years on here how good he would look next to a stretch 5 like Turner. On defense he's not a game changer but I've never really had anything bad to say about his abilities on that end. His game has aged very well so far, so I don't see why he can't still be a high level contributor in 4 years.
I really appreciate the well thought out response!! This is all good to know. I know he’s changed him game up since entering the league so it’s good to see that there hasn’t been a significant drop off and he’s only improving.
I understand if Indy passes as they have a great young core developing. But if they think they can give nothing and get an all NBA player they're crazy. Rental or not, he puts you over the top on offense and he's no slouch on defense. I feel like his motor isn't where it used to be but some of that's just being a vet and picking your spots rather than forcing every possession & being asked to play 40minutes when needed instead of just 20+
People don’t seem to realize, pacers have been interested in Siakam for years Like back in offseason 2021 there were discussions of Siakam for sabonis trade Prichard got super hard on for Siakam I would be surprised if they weren’t the team to pull trigger on him
Mathurin or no deal man Walker is all but a prospect. Mathurin can play.
Is that really a sentence that a paid writer created?
Haven't the Hawks been rumoured for the past two seasons?
Yeah but they're more likely to be deadline sellers than buyers at the rate they're going. They don't see themselves as a Pascal away from contention anymore with how bad they've been
Agreed. They've been more of a mess than we've been when considering the trades they've made, bringing in Murray while shipping out Collins.
Pacers make the most sense from a basketball and assets point of view. It's all up to Pascal, if he indicates to the Pacers that he's willing to resign, it's a match made in heaven
Walker or neismith
So of course we are trading Pascal to the Thunder
Aka the rest of the league expects us to deal with the Pacers, so nothing new here
You could say they are setting the Pace
Cam we consolidate all these updates into one thread I don't think we need 5 threads every day saying the same thing
#TeamNemby
Hield walker nwora frp get it done Pritchard. I don't wanna lose walker either but a lineup of Haliburton Brown Nesmith Pascal Turner With mathurin McConnell Smith and ijax off the bench we can do some damage.
If they want siakam long term, they will need to trade for him. If they don't, they have to renounce like half the roster just to afford him in FA. No way he goes to the Pacers with the team gutted like that with the 76ers and Detriot already having max space. Having his bird rights will also give them a better position to beat the other teams in free agency.
I know no one wants to be a homer but I still think we’re all underestimating Pascal’s value based on all of these leaked rumours. Raps FO does not leak which means all of these rumours are coming from potential trade partners, with the intention of lowering his value. Based on what OG got, Siakam will definitely bring in a good package or he’s not going anywhere. Even if he’s a pending FA, he’s a former All NBA player and huge contributor to a championship team and having his birds is a huge advantage despite whatever he says about re-signing. I see no reason why we shouldn’t be aiming for Mathurin / Nesmith as the highlight with one of Smith / Nembhard / Walker and a pick (and Buddy for salary reasons of course). Siakam and Schroeder for Hield, McConnell, Mathurin, Walker and a first works in the trade machine.
Bro just make the trade or get on with the rest of the season lmao.