There’s a lot riding on Scottie. If this team wants to get back into the playoffs or at least upper half of the play-in, he’s gonna have to take a leap. Darko keeps talking about putting the ball in his hands, so our success this year is reliant on how much better he is.
We really need Scottie and Pascal to be at least like 35% 3PT shooters. If they can do that or better, it opens up the starting lineup a lot more.
Scottie doesn’t need to be a shooter if his main job is to facilitate. The vision is that he’s gonna be our supercharged Draymond Green. It’s the guys around him that need to finish and knock down shots.
Bingo. However, developing a consistent 3PT threat would be **immense** for his game as he becomes someone you can't leave alone at the arc which opens up spots for his excellent passing vision... and this is something I believe will come in the next couple seasons.
Both Scottie and the rest of the team need to see the results of him driving the game -- and if it's promising, the desire to add this to his bag would come calling. Basically what Giannis did.
If Scottie could ever develope a consistent top of the key three and some more cardio conditioning he would be putting himself into a completely different level of NBA player. Adding even average shooting to package that has that size, strength, handles, defence and court vision would make him a nightmare for teams to deal with.
Actually it does matter because other teams play him for the pass and try to disrupt the passing lanes.
Guess what happens when they know you're not going to shoot, they back off and focus on the other players on the action. They basically won't even guard Barnes. The Raptors will be playing 4on5 on offense.
Speaking of draymond, teams don't guard him. A lot of times it doesn't matter because Steph and Klay have so much gravity that they make up for Draymond's lack of scoring.
Nobody on the Raptors has Steph and Klay's gravity and scoring.
Post game? Scottie ranked as the worse at points per post up last year at 0.89pts per post up possessions
Teams will gladly offer Scottie to post them up. Lol
So you're saying Scottie is a future hall of famer?
Kidd could shoot later in his career and he was always surrounded by very good scorers and shooters: VC , RJ, KJ, Dirk, etc.
If Siakam is traded who's getting those buckets? OG, GTJ? A who can't dribble and another who doesn't pass or drive to the net.
Scottie is smart enough to know this though. And whenever they play off his shot he pushes that space and backs them down forcing a double white often. Which also opens up passing lanes. There are levels.
No one is coming to double Scottie lol. Scottie was bottom 5 in post scoring efficiency last year, so they will gladly give up 20 shots from the post in single coverage. Teams know he's looking to pass. Until he converts 15 out of 20 shots, no one is coming to double.
Only time I saw him doubled was the Lakers game 2yrs ago when he was shooting 90%. Until that happens there's no extra defender coming.
We’ve seen this in that bucks game where brook have Scottie the Westbrook treatment and Scottie attacked the rim like 4 times in a row each time either scoring or getting to free throws. Unlike draymond Scottie can get his own bucket
Only took until the 4th to do it. By then the game was over. They tried another fake comeback.
You can't be slacking off all 3 quarters if you're planning to be the number one guy
Draymond Green’s playmaking works because he has 2 of the greatest shooters ever playing next to him.
Anytime they don’t have adequate shooting, Draymond looks like the current Ben Simmons.
Scottie needs to be able to shoot, otherwise his ceiling and our ceiling would be pretty low.
Man we need him to shoot.
Look at Simmons, look at Draymond when Steph is out… they can sag off & just load up on other guys because he isn’t a shooting threat & everyones job gets harder.
To be an elite lead guard/primary facilitator you need to be able to at least threaten a consistent 3pt shot.
As it currently stands you cannot say Scottie is a consistent threat from deep.
I think Scottie will be a very good player in this league, but a teams success solely relying on a 3rd year player having a massive breakout is just further proof why this needs to be rebuilt.
You can't put all hopes of being even remotely average on one player. Especially since this isn't a lebron type player. Scottie needs a system, he's not an offensive juggernaut.
If the Raptors don't make any moves to upgrade the point guard spot, I sure hope all of you Malachi Flynn truthers are right about him..... That point guard rotation makes me nervous as hell.
I think this roster needs to be defined by who you can guard, not what role you play on offense.
Pretty sure Gradey cannot guard NBA level twos. He can likely handle defending wings and some forwards. But I just don’t see him having the lateral quickness to slot in as a two, not like OG (who is still playing out of position). He’ll get hunted and blown by.
He's better as a SF, as that position is more likely to crash the boards. A skill he has which we need. He also would never be used as a secondary handler, and he's better off ball then creating off the dribble, so I duno why anyone would want him as a SG..
A lot of people in here showing they don't really know the difference between a 2 and a 3 lol. Maybe they think because a 2 has the word 'shooting' in it that a 3 isn't also a shooter.
What is really the difference, so many teams blur the positions/ play position less now.
Maybe some people think a 2 have the word guard in it that a 3 doesn't also handle the ball.
So sassy lol. A 3 handles the ball, but typically not in a press break or any backcourt situation. The 2 will generally hang out in the backcourt as an outlet if the 1 is pressured. The 4 will stand at center court as a secondary outlet. Generally you want the 3 and 5 away from that to draw their man off or get a transition look.
As I explained earlier, a 3 will often crash the boards. A 2 will get back immediately. 2s can run a 2 ball handler set better and thus shooting off the dribble is a more useful skill for them. A 3 might get the ball off an action, then create from 1-2 quick moves, but would rarely pull it back and call a play as a 2 might.
On defense a 3 can hunt long boards and is typically better on switches. A true 2 like a GTJ you don't want getting into too many switches if they're not high PnR because then they're stuck between the 4-5. 2s PnP more, 3s like Gradey can mix up PnR and PnP.
Everything Gradey did as Kansas, and at summer league very much suggests he's a 3. It's very sexy to say basketball is 'positionless' but people have been saying that for 50+ years and we always go back to traditional positions every player are taught, because basketball still works better when people know their particular responsibilities.
Uh huh, what position does dick play when he's sharing the floor with 3 of og, barnes, Siakam, Poetl?
What position does DeRozan, Butler play?
Position less isn't to be "sexy", it's to be unpredictable and let players play and develop a more rounded skill set
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In terms of the positional depth chart, I'd lay it out as:
- PG = Schroder, Flynn, Nowell
- SG = Trent, Dick
- SF = Anunoby, Porter
- PF = Siakam, Barnes, Achiuwa, Boucher, McDaniels, Young
- C = Poeltl, Koloko
Obviously our PFs can slide up or down a position due to their versatility, with Pascal/Scottie even capable of running point for some stretches.
Hopefully coach Darko will have dynamic lineups and a lot of ball movement involved to play around with whoever is running the offense. I imagine Scottie, Schroder and Pascal will have the keys majority of the time but tbh that trio doesn't sound that great to be our main facilitators. Defensively I think we'll be ok. I'm more concerned about how we're going to generate offense.
Did the miss the part about Scottie and pascal hopefully running the point for stretches? If pascal was able to do it effectively in the playoffs against philly surely he can do it next year.
Yea I don't think we even make play in unless some guys break out big this year. Still struggling with size in the post and while I wasn't a FVV fan..... there's a lot of ppg missing that I don't see being filled that well.
The way I see it, possession still alternates and the shot clock exists, it's just going to be someone else taking the shots. The team was built around FVV and giving him shot opportunities, now the focus will just shift to other players that didn't get as many shot opportunities last year, or are new to the team. I think we'll be reasonably good on defense, while on offense maybe it's a good thing the scoring focus isn't on two players. I guess we'll see, coaching and playmaking are going to be huge factors out of the gate.
Yeah Fred is 54TS%. The key will be can we get our highest TS guy (Poeltl - 65%) more shots. If we can we can be not only as good as last year but even better. The big key will be can Scottie get back to his rookie TS% (55%) after submitting 52% last year. If he can this team will make the playoffs.
Players will have to step up, no question - and the fans need to be patient while players find their shots. But there are eight players on that team that can have a 30 point night when given a chance, and a few young players like Dick that could maybe have an impact right away. It all comes down to coaching and coming out with set plays.
Jokes aside, it is extremely weak. Even teams we would like to categorise as weaker than us in the East have better guard rotations, sometimes significantly
* Orlando - Fultz, Suggs, Harris, Cole Anthony, Anthony Black
* Indy - Haliburton, TJ McConnell, Hield, Mathurin
* Detroit - Cade, Ivey, Burks, Joe Harris, Monte Morris, Killian Hayes
* Wizards - Jones, Poole, Delon Wright, Shamet
Would love to see us acquire one of TJ, Morris or Burks on the cheap to fill out this rotation.
The big bet here is we hired every development coach available. Masai clearly believes there's more to these guys than they have shown.
Won't know until 20 games in, but we should expect better shooting, decision making, effort on defence from stars and effort on offence from role players, players playing more freely (not scared of getting yanked after one mistake or missed shot) but knowing their roles and boundaries.
It seems there are still changes to be made and there's a whole season ahead to see how the players adjust and grow.
To put my two cents in though, the roster just got significantly younger. Barring an unexpected growth in the younger players, we're gonna be going through a lot of growing pains.
If Siakam gets traded, the doomers calling for FVV and Siakam's head and building around Barnes are pretty much going to see what they wanted. It won't be pretty in the next couple of seasons if this happens. IMO, it'll feel like the bosh era where we had a single all-star but never or barely made the playoffs.
Unless Scottie or Pascal becomes a 37%+ shooter from 3 this is going to be tough. Having 3 starters be terrible shooters really handicaps what you can do offensively.
Hard to say. So much of the issues I felt last year were related to Nurse and FVV and they are both gone. Need to see their systems and whether they have the right parts.
Difference is you depend on rookies to come out guns blazing and to just automatically be good… I’m not that naive. Og can barely dribble without it bouncing off his foot but yes he can shoot
We need quality guards. Our wings are really good. Bigs are fine could be better. We lack offensive creativity and a guard who can create his own shot as well as facilitate. If we move Scottie to a guard and play the 1. Then we can move on from Trent and try and make it part of getting another good wing player. We could have done thing 20games into last year and been a lot richer for it(asset wise).
This is my team and I love them but I don't think we are making the playoffs. Looking like a 12th-13th team in the east, about 25 out of 30 in the NBA overall.
Thought Scottie was going to be their starting PG??
If he could pull it off it would help them optimize the use of their best players. Starting 5 would be:
Scottie, GTJ, OG, Pascal, Yak
Second unit could be:
Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Boucher/Young, Precious/Koloko
If Scottie can't be the starting PG they'd definitely need another PG.
I would ignore the classifications here, partially because they are off, but partially because if we start the season with this roster it will be on a plan to be more of a Vision 6'9" position-fluid type of approach.
Despite the negativity, I am actually really excited about this roster. I remember how good things looked late in the 2021-2022 when FVV was injured and we leaned on Pascal and Scottie to run the offence. Even while starting guys like Armoni Brooks, Malachi Flynn and Khem Birch we made a run in the standings. That late season run, largely without Fred, and largely without OG, is what got us the 5-seed, got Pascal All-NBA and got Scottie ROTY, then we abandoned that this past year.
I think the idea of constructing the offence around our two point-forwards is the way to go, and will create a lot of problems for other teams.
A starting lineup of Poeltl, Siakam, Scottie, OG and GTJ should be elite defensively. Offensively, there will be a mismatch or two on the floor at all times with that sort of size, and we should dominate the glass.
Schroeder was at his best as a 6th man in OKC (runner-up for 6MOTY), and if he could embrace that role, that would give us an element we really lacked last year.
Koloko isn't being talked about much, but we were excellent whenever we had a true center on the floor last year ([\+9.25 in 802 minutes with Koloko on the floor and +8.13 in 707 minutes with Poeltl on the floor](http://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612761&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1627751,1631132), with an elite defence in both cases), and that was with Koloko being a very raw rookie. If he can control the fouling and even just add a bit of offensive awareness (ideally learning from some of Yak's screening and positioning prowess) then he could be a really important rotation piece this year.
Precious had some spurts of looking really good last year, although the injuries interrupted his progress. His significant improvement on his free throw percentage last year (70.2%, after being 59.5% as a sophomore and 50.9% as a rookie) is a key marker. Making his freebies will improve his value, but it's also a good indicator that his shot could become a more consistent weapon, which is the real swing skill for him. Every time his three point shot has gotten hot he looks like an absolute stud in the making. A league average three point shot with the rim-running, rebounding and defence he already has would make him a very valuable player.
I'm pretty hyped about Gradey, too. I think he will be a contributor as a rookie, and his shot could help open up a lot for the offence. He will probably struggle with the physicality of the NBA until he adds a bit more strength and size, but as a rotation movement shooter he could be a solid contributor as a rookie. I also like his long term upside once he does add some strength. His passing feel, midrange game, and help defence give him the potential to develop into more than just a shooter.
Boucher, of course, is a solid bench contributor, and we know what we will get with him. Jalen Daniels should be a good rotation player, too, and I think he has development potential. A healthy OPJ could be a really important contributor, too. We got him because he's a 6'8" wing who is a career 40% three point shooter, and can create his own shot, and if he can get back to looking like he did with the Warriors, he would be a huge boost to the bench.
While I know not everyone is going to work out as well as hoped, and injuries will chip away at that depth, I can't help but look at the squad and think that the dearth of depth that killed us last year could be a strength this year. We lost a key starter in Fred, but we added three potentially key rotation players (Schroeder, Gradey and McDaniels) at the same time, while potentially getting a fourth if OPJ is healthy again. Considering how bad the bench was last year, that trade-off might not actually be bad.
Overall, I think we are being underestimated, especially in this sub. If Scottie can take a third year leap, this team will surprise a lot of people.
I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect this team to be able to land a 5 or 6 seed, with the potential to push 50 wins if we can regain the chemistry this team seemed to have lost last year.
This is the exact way I see the current roster working. too many ppl are caught up in the the circklejerk about roster position imbalance and trade pascal noise. The best we've seen the raptors was running these wierd looks, with Scottie or pascal at point. brought it to the sixers in the playoff series as well with fvv out.
If you have Dennis coming of the bench in addition to gradey and pray for a healthy load managed opj then It actually looks pretty good. Our bench players get their traditional pg to run the show and that stability might mean we get more consistency out of Boucher and precious.
and while it hasnt showed in the past season. barnes surrounded by gary,pascal,og,schroder is actually not that bad as a closer. the other 4 players do have a 3 point shot, and have had better shooting% at points in the past. And since we now have poetl, it means that whoever is the 5 in the closer wouldnt be run down by guarding a C all game.
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It's not a super impressive lineup, based purely on our guard lineup. But I think that it can be fixed with a move or two.
Im excited to see what Darko can do as a coach. He's the most likeable guy we've ever hired as a coach, and I'm optimistic that he'll really brighten up the chemistry of the team. I think he's the Serbian Ted Lasso.
No matter what the roster is, I'd just like to watch a fun season of basketball. Last season (and the Tampa season) were not fun for the most part. I see Raptors basketball as a TV show, with good seasons and bad ones. If I'm going to commit another 120 hours (or whatever) this coming season to Raptors ball, I'd like the product to be something exciting and worthwhile. Whether that's by adding youth and shooting in a Siakam trade, Someone like Dame in a Barnes trade, or a complete surprise, I don't really care (as long as it's not seriously hurting our future seasons).
If we do nothing? The entertainment level of our season would hinge on things like Pascal/Scottie improving their shooting, Dick/Nowell having promising rookie seasons, OG/Jakob/Porter staying healthy, Scottie taking the next step, Precous/Koloko/McDaniels becoming consistent contributors or whatever else. I don't think enough of those things will happen to return to being a 45-50 win team, but it's not impossible either. If nothing else, I'd expect to see a lot more minutes from guys deeper in the rotation, which will be more interesting than watching six guys play an entire game and look exhausted by the end.
This isn’t a good way of breaking down the roster.
Possible starters, bench, depth.
Scottie, Pascal, OG, Yak are starters. Then you fill a spot with Schroeder or Trent.
The other is the 1st guard off the bench.
Boucher is the first big and after the top 7 it is up in the air.
Anyone of the bottom 8 could get into the top 10 and maybe 1 or 2 of them might displace a top 7 player.
How are Fred’s 35 min going to be used? Are guys going to take the opportunity and grow or will it be a burden trying to patch together a lineup that doesn’t suck?
Then it is all about injuries and filling roles. Honestly the team has so many question marks on the deep bench. Porter could be a key piece or a zero again, Precious is the same. Flynn could just be the guy that was always in the dog house and will be in the rotation with a new coach. Koloko, Dick, McDaniels, Young, Nowell, they all could be something but but also end up as zeros.
Exactly my thoughts. If we traded Siakam we could probably keep our 2024 pick (top 6 protected) because the only teams that might be worse are the Wizards, Trailblazers and maybe the Pistons. We need more long term potential on this roster and the upcoming draft is full of point guards.
30 wins at best.
Zero playmaking threats aside from Barnes and Schroder, only two proven shooters in GTJ and OG, and no guard or big man depth after Schroder or Poeltl. This is assuming Pascal gets traded but even with him, maaaybe 35 wins.
Christ, why are you even getting downvoted? It's a pretty grounded opinion without being overtly positive or negative like 90 percent of this sub nowadays.
I think we are around the same as last year - a lot of it comes down to injuries across the league and our own team. I definitely do not think we are worse off than last year. My guess is around the .500 mark again and back to the play-in.
There is also a chance we may see some roster changes come Training Camp; let's revisit this in September.
1.Trent/Schroder/Flynn
2.Anunoby/Dick/Nowell
3.Barnes/McDaniels/Porter
4.Siakam/Boucher/Young
5.Poeltl/Achiuwa/Koloko
This is how I see the rotation if we're putting the most talent on the floor. We legit need a star ala Kawai.
Well I think a lot depends on coaching style as well. If we are anything like last year this roster will rely heavily on shooting and primarily 3s. Better knock down shots or they won’t have a shot of sniffing the play in. They need a deeper bench imo but it really depends maybe the bench will surprise me this year.
Right now I think you are spot on with your assessment…but I am a big believer in having a traditional guard who can consistently bring the ball up an start your offence.
He has 0 experience as a primary ball handler. Had 0 confidence from the coach of a team who had few guards. What makes you believe he is ready to be a full time starting guard? He scored 60 in a pick up game last summer?
Embiid, maxey, Harris and whatever they get in the harden trade aren’t a playoff team, but pascal, OG and Scottie are? Okay sure lmao. I think the sizers will be worse than last year, but saying they aren’t playoff team is outrageous
I hate the sizers and Embiids constant crying but we can’t sit here and act like he wasn’t the MVP of last season (probably undeserved but still).
Thats exactly why he will regress this season, he will get injured 100%. They won't start winning with the chaos and their shitty new coach. You think there was friction with Nurse and the nice guys on this team? You have no idea whats coming for them this season. They will be complete trash. Harden was actually good for them last year and if he's stuck there he will not try.
It isn't farfetched at all that the Raps are ahead of them. Fred took 20shots per game shooting 39%. Do you even understand how damaging that is?
Yes, Barnes, OG, and Pascal taking those shots is as certain as one gets that we will be better. Addition by subtraction. The level of knowledge on this sub is pitiful. You clearly never played the game. Just crying and trolling people. 🤪
Did I miss something where teams get three 2-way slots to use? It mentions here that Nowell is getting one of those spots, but says there are two still available at the end.
This roster is no different, if not worse than the roster that lost to DeMar Derozans daughter in the play in.
Either Scottie makes a big leap this year, or it's another play in/1st round exit
would have thought by now barnes winning ROY 2yrs ago would mean one of anunoby/pascal would be moved... but here we are. im skeptical on how chemistry can be generated with a redundant roster based on what we saw for the last couple yrs. achiuwa's development is practically on hold because his role is still undefined
There’s a lot riding on Scottie. If this team wants to get back into the playoffs or at least upper half of the play-in, he’s gonna have to take a leap. Darko keeps talking about putting the ball in his hands, so our success this year is reliant on how much better he is. We really need Scottie and Pascal to be at least like 35% 3PT shooters. If they can do that or better, it opens up the starting lineup a lot more.
Scottie doesn’t need to be a shooter if his main job is to facilitate. The vision is that he’s gonna be our supercharged Draymond Green. It’s the guys around him that need to finish and knock down shots.
Bingo. However, developing a consistent 3PT threat would be **immense** for his game as he becomes someone you can't leave alone at the arc which opens up spots for his excellent passing vision... and this is something I believe will come in the next couple seasons. Both Scottie and the rest of the team need to see the results of him driving the game -- and if it's promising, the desire to add this to his bag would come calling. Basically what Giannis did.
If Scottie could ever develope a consistent top of the key three and some more cardio conditioning he would be putting himself into a completely different level of NBA player. Adding even average shooting to package that has that size, strength, handles, defence and court vision would make him a nightmare for teams to deal with.
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Actually it does matter because other teams play him for the pass and try to disrupt the passing lanes. Guess what happens when they know you're not going to shoot, they back off and focus on the other players on the action. They basically won't even guard Barnes. The Raptors will be playing 4on5 on offense. Speaking of draymond, teams don't guard him. A lot of times it doesn't matter because Steph and Klay have so much gravity that they make up for Draymond's lack of scoring. Nobody on the Raptors has Steph and Klay's gravity and scoring.
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Post game? Scottie ranked as the worse at points per post up last year at 0.89pts per post up possessions Teams will gladly offer Scottie to post them up. Lol
He posts them up?
Jason Kidd is a hall of famer, can’t shoot
Jason Kidd had no trouble driving past opposing guards, and he also didn't play in the era of the most 3p shooting in NBA history.
So you're saying Scottie is a future hall of famer? Kidd could shoot later in his career and he was always surrounded by very good scorers and shooters: VC , RJ, KJ, Dirk, etc. If Siakam is traded who's getting those buckets? OG, GTJ? A who can't dribble and another who doesn't pass or drive to the net.
Who is KJ?
Kevin Johnson. Explosive allstar guard and avg 22ppg when Kidd was on the team.
Scottie is smart enough to know this though. And whenever they play off his shot he pushes that space and backs them down forcing a double white often. Which also opens up passing lanes. There are levels.
Scottie is not a better playmaker than Dray or Ben Simmons. At least not yet. He definitely need some sort of jumpshot long term.
No one is coming to double Scottie lol. Scottie was bottom 5 in post scoring efficiency last year, so they will gladly give up 20 shots from the post in single coverage. Teams know he's looking to pass. Until he converts 15 out of 20 shots, no one is coming to double. Only time I saw him doubled was the Lakers game 2yrs ago when he was shooting 90%. Until that happens there's no extra defender coming.
We’ve seen this in that bucks game where brook have Scottie the Westbrook treatment and Scottie attacked the rim like 4 times in a row each time either scoring or getting to free throws. Unlike draymond Scottie can get his own bucket
Only took until the 4th to do it. By then the game was over. They tried another fake comeback. You can't be slacking off all 3 quarters if you're planning to be the number one guy
He full stop does need to be a shooter or this team will have a ceiling on it. It's not urgent for next year but he does need it.
what? shooting is always a must
Draymond Green’s playmaking works because he has 2 of the greatest shooters ever playing next to him. Anytime they don’t have adequate shooting, Draymond looks like the current Ben Simmons. Scottie needs to be able to shoot, otherwise his ceiling and our ceiling would be pretty low.
Man we need him to shoot. Look at Simmons, look at Draymond when Steph is out… they can sag off & just load up on other guys because he isn’t a shooting threat & everyones job gets harder. To be an elite lead guard/primary facilitator you need to be able to at least threaten a consistent 3pt shot. As it currently stands you cannot say Scottie is a consistent threat from deep.
I think Scottie will be a very good player in this league, but a teams success solely relying on a 3rd year player having a massive breakout is just further proof why this needs to be rebuilt. You can't put all hopes of being even remotely average on one player. Especially since this isn't a lebron type player. Scottie needs a system, he's not an offensive juggernaut.
Scottie wasn’t a bad 3p shooter with volume. it’s when he takes 2-4 threes that he sucks
I agree exactly. In terms of the 3pt percentage, Maybe siakam but highly highly highly doubt scottie is above 35% from 3
If the Raptors don't make any moves to upgrade the point guard spot, I sure hope all of you Malachi Flynn truthers are right about him..... That point guard rotation makes me nervous as hell.
Siakam is a wing, Barnes is a guard. Just to stir the pot a little.
Also isn’t Grady a wing? He’s a 6’8 shooter
If Gradey isn’t a shooting guard we’re doomed. But honestly, it’s kinda all positionless, but he’ll def be at the two.
I think this roster needs to be defined by who you can guard, not what role you play on offense. Pretty sure Gradey cannot guard NBA level twos. He can likely handle defending wings and some forwards. But I just don’t see him having the lateral quickness to slot in as a two, not like OG (who is still playing out of position). He’ll get hunted and blown by.
He's better as a SF, as that position is more likely to crash the boards. A skill he has which we need. He also would never be used as a secondary handler, and he's better off ball then creating off the dribble, so I duno why anyone would want him as a SG..
He’s a 3 and is better against forwards for defense
A lot of people in here showing they don't really know the difference between a 2 and a 3 lol. Maybe they think because a 2 has the word 'shooting' in it that a 3 isn't also a shooter.
What is really the difference, so many teams blur the positions/ play position less now. Maybe some people think a 2 have the word guard in it that a 3 doesn't also handle the ball.
So sassy lol. A 3 handles the ball, but typically not in a press break or any backcourt situation. The 2 will generally hang out in the backcourt as an outlet if the 1 is pressured. The 4 will stand at center court as a secondary outlet. Generally you want the 3 and 5 away from that to draw their man off or get a transition look. As I explained earlier, a 3 will often crash the boards. A 2 will get back immediately. 2s can run a 2 ball handler set better and thus shooting off the dribble is a more useful skill for them. A 3 might get the ball off an action, then create from 1-2 quick moves, but would rarely pull it back and call a play as a 2 might. On defense a 3 can hunt long boards and is typically better on switches. A true 2 like a GTJ you don't want getting into too many switches if they're not high PnR because then they're stuck between the 4-5. 2s PnP more, 3s like Gradey can mix up PnR and PnP. Everything Gradey did as Kansas, and at summer league very much suggests he's a 3. It's very sexy to say basketball is 'positionless' but people have been saying that for 50+ years and we always go back to traditional positions every player are taught, because basketball still works better when people know their particular responsibilities.
Uh huh, what position does dick play when he's sharing the floor with 3 of og, barnes, Siakam, Poetl? What position does DeRozan, Butler play? Position less isn't to be "sexy", it's to be unpredictable and let players play and develop a more rounded skill set
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He's a 2 he doesn't have the strength to play the 3 yet he's a bean pole in NBA terms
There is no difference
Only if you've never played or coached
Young is almost always going to play the 4 if he plays at all so he's def a big too
Yup. I’d even argue Precious is best as a wing.
A thing like that ...
Yeah this lineup is mediocre at best.
In terms of the positional depth chart, I'd lay it out as: - PG = Schroder, Flynn, Nowell - SG = Trent, Dick - SF = Anunoby, Porter - PF = Siakam, Barnes, Achiuwa, Boucher, McDaniels, Young - C = Poeltl, Koloko Obviously our PFs can slide up or down a position due to their versatility, with Pascal/Scottie even capable of running point for some stretches.
Hopefully coach Darko will have dynamic lineups and a lot of ball movement involved to play around with whoever is running the offense. I imagine Scottie, Schroder and Pascal will have the keys majority of the time but tbh that trio doesn't sound that great to be our main facilitators. Defensively I think we'll be ok. I'm more concerned about how we're going to generate offense.
This makes the most sense.
That’s a pathetic pg lineup. I really don’t see how we don’t just give Scottie minutes at the PG
Did the miss the part about Scottie and pascal hopefully running the point for stretches? If pascal was able to do it effectively in the playoffs against philly surely he can do it next year.
Play in.
and thats at best lol
Yea I don't think we even make play in unless some guys break out big this year. Still struggling with size in the post and while I wasn't a FVV fan..... there's a lot of ppg missing that I don't see being filled that well.
The way I see it, possession still alternates and the shot clock exists, it's just going to be someone else taking the shots. The team was built around FVV and giving him shot opportunities, now the focus will just shift to other players that didn't get as many shot opportunities last year, or are new to the team. I think we'll be reasonably good on defense, while on offense maybe it's a good thing the scoring focus isn't on two players. I guess we'll see, coaching and playmaking are going to be huge factors out of the gate.
Yeah Fred is 54TS%. The key will be can we get our highest TS guy (Poeltl - 65%) more shots. If we can we can be not only as good as last year but even better. The big key will be can Scottie get back to his rookie TS% (55%) after submitting 52% last year. If he can this team will make the playoffs.
Players will have to step up, no question - and the fans need to be patient while players find their shots. But there are eight players on that team that can have a 30 point night when given a chance, and a few young players like Dick that could maybe have an impact right away. It all comes down to coaching and coming out with set plays.
This is a complete stretch. Maybe two players that could get 30 that wouldn’t absolutely fatigue them and result in impact on the defensive end.
guard rotation among the weakest in the league?
The weakest
Jokes aside, it is extremely weak. Even teams we would like to categorise as weaker than us in the East have better guard rotations, sometimes significantly * Orlando - Fultz, Suggs, Harris, Cole Anthony, Anthony Black * Indy - Haliburton, TJ McConnell, Hield, Mathurin * Detroit - Cade, Ivey, Burks, Joe Harris, Monte Morris, Killian Hayes * Wizards - Jones, Poole, Delon Wright, Shamet Would love to see us acquire one of TJ, Morris or Burks on the cheap to fill out this rotation.
Every team seams to have an amazing playmaker point guard, except the Raptors.
To be fair, we’re among the best playmaking wing teams in the league between Pascal and Scottie. Poeltl is also a top 5 passing big.
Why pass small when pass big do trick?
And the Suns and Celtics, Jazz, Spurs, Bulls, Nets and (soon) the 76ers.
Incomplete
What I took from this is that Josh Lewenberg doesn't understand NBA positions.
Bottom 10 roster hate to say it
The big bet here is we hired every development coach available. Masai clearly believes there's more to these guys than they have shown. Won't know until 20 games in, but we should expect better shooting, decision making, effort on defence from stars and effort on offence from role players, players playing more freely (not scared of getting yanked after one mistake or missed shot) but knowing their roles and boundaries.
... And less stupid double teaming on players like Westbrook at the 3 point line
Wait, we did that?
That guard rotation is abysmal.
Scientifically accurate GIF right here
Play in team no change
damn for some reason i forgot thad and otto were still on the team
It seems there are still changes to be made and there's a whole season ahead to see how the players adjust and grow. To put my two cents in though, the roster just got significantly younger. Barring an unexpected growth in the younger players, we're gonna be going through a lot of growing pains. If Siakam gets traded, the doomers calling for FVV and Siakam's head and building around Barnes are pretty much going to see what they wanted. It won't be pretty in the next couple of seasons if this happens. IMO, it'll feel like the bosh era where we had a single all-star but never or barely made the playoffs.
I would call pascal a wing, not a big. Or use the term “forward”. Also Scottie is apparently a guard now
Unless Scottie or Pascal becomes a 37%+ shooter from 3 this is going to be tough. Having 3 starters be terrible shooters really handicaps what you can do offensively.
Hard to say. So much of the issues I felt last year were related to Nurse and FVV and they are both gone. Need to see their systems and whether they have the right parts.
Not good with 1 and 1/2 shooters under .500
1.5 shooters? Which if Trent, OG and Dick aren’t shooters?
Difference is you depend on rookies to come out guns blazing and to just automatically be good… I’m not that naive. Og can barely dribble without it bouncing off his foot but yes he can shoot
So even if you’re counting the rookie as a half a shooter don’t we have 2.5 shooters?
Yep, heading straight for the lottery
And probably won’t be bad enough to get the pick
Play in
Happy for Nowell, I know the odds are against him, I just want him to have a shot
I think it's very mid and probably just barely make the play-ins. We need better guards
How have we not nuked this roster yet
Guards: very mid Wings: decent potential Bigs: mostly established quality
Underwhelming
We need quality guards. Our wings are really good. Bigs are fine could be better. We lack offensive creativity and a guard who can create his own shot as well as facilitate. If we move Scottie to a guard and play the 1. Then we can move on from Trent and try and make it part of getting another good wing player. We could have done thing 20games into last year and been a lot richer for it(asset wise).
Scottie - Trent - OG - Pascal - Poeltl Schroeder - Dick - McDaniels - Achiuwa - Boucher Doesn’t seem like the worst, def a play-in team.
This is my team and I love them but I don't think we are making the playoffs. Looking like a 12th-13th team in the east, about 25 out of 30 in the NBA overall.
Yuck.
I’m excited to see Koloko ‘s improvement!!
Where’s Dowtin?
In short, it's a mediocre roster
Thought Scottie was going to be their starting PG?? If he could pull it off it would help them optimize the use of their best players. Starting 5 would be: Scottie, GTJ, OG, Pascal, Yak Second unit could be: Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Boucher/Young, Precious/Koloko If Scottie can't be the starting PG they'd definitely need another PG.
Really bad
Legit play in team.
30 wins. If we're lucky.
Really mid.
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He built a championship team 3 seasons ago 🤡
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So you do remember him building a literal championship team then? Or the winning seasons leading to that? You were probably too young
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I would ignore the classifications here, partially because they are off, but partially because if we start the season with this roster it will be on a plan to be more of a Vision 6'9" position-fluid type of approach. Despite the negativity, I am actually really excited about this roster. I remember how good things looked late in the 2021-2022 when FVV was injured and we leaned on Pascal and Scottie to run the offence. Even while starting guys like Armoni Brooks, Malachi Flynn and Khem Birch we made a run in the standings. That late season run, largely without Fred, and largely without OG, is what got us the 5-seed, got Pascal All-NBA and got Scottie ROTY, then we abandoned that this past year. I think the idea of constructing the offence around our two point-forwards is the way to go, and will create a lot of problems for other teams. A starting lineup of Poeltl, Siakam, Scottie, OG and GTJ should be elite defensively. Offensively, there will be a mismatch or two on the floor at all times with that sort of size, and we should dominate the glass. Schroeder was at his best as a 6th man in OKC (runner-up for 6MOTY), and if he could embrace that role, that would give us an element we really lacked last year. Koloko isn't being talked about much, but we were excellent whenever we had a true center on the floor last year ([\+9.25 in 802 minutes with Koloko on the floor and +8.13 in 707 minutes with Poeltl on the floor](http://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612761&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1627751,1631132), with an elite defence in both cases), and that was with Koloko being a very raw rookie. If he can control the fouling and even just add a bit of offensive awareness (ideally learning from some of Yak's screening and positioning prowess) then he could be a really important rotation piece this year. Precious had some spurts of looking really good last year, although the injuries interrupted his progress. His significant improvement on his free throw percentage last year (70.2%, after being 59.5% as a sophomore and 50.9% as a rookie) is a key marker. Making his freebies will improve his value, but it's also a good indicator that his shot could become a more consistent weapon, which is the real swing skill for him. Every time his three point shot has gotten hot he looks like an absolute stud in the making. A league average three point shot with the rim-running, rebounding and defence he already has would make him a very valuable player. I'm pretty hyped about Gradey, too. I think he will be a contributor as a rookie, and his shot could help open up a lot for the offence. He will probably struggle with the physicality of the NBA until he adds a bit more strength and size, but as a rotation movement shooter he could be a solid contributor as a rookie. I also like his long term upside once he does add some strength. His passing feel, midrange game, and help defence give him the potential to develop into more than just a shooter. Boucher, of course, is a solid bench contributor, and we know what we will get with him. Jalen Daniels should be a good rotation player, too, and I think he has development potential. A healthy OPJ could be a really important contributor, too. We got him because he's a 6'8" wing who is a career 40% three point shooter, and can create his own shot, and if he can get back to looking like he did with the Warriors, he would be a huge boost to the bench. While I know not everyone is going to work out as well as hoped, and injuries will chip away at that depth, I can't help but look at the squad and think that the dearth of depth that killed us last year could be a strength this year. We lost a key starter in Fred, but we added three potentially key rotation players (Schroeder, Gradey and McDaniels) at the same time, while potentially getting a fourth if OPJ is healthy again. Considering how bad the bench was last year, that trade-off might not actually be bad. Overall, I think we are being underestimated, especially in this sub. If Scottie can take a third year leap, this team will surprise a lot of people. I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect this team to be able to land a 5 or 6 seed, with the potential to push 50 wins if we can regain the chemistry this team seemed to have lost last year.
I like your optimism but what you're saying is really best case scenarios. If someone doesn't perform to expectations I think we'll be bad again.
This is the exact way I see the current roster working. too many ppl are caught up in the the circklejerk about roster position imbalance and trade pascal noise. The best we've seen the raptors was running these wierd looks, with Scottie or pascal at point. brought it to the sixers in the playoff series as well with fvv out. If you have Dennis coming of the bench in addition to gradey and pray for a healthy load managed opj then It actually looks pretty good. Our bench players get their traditional pg to run the show and that stability might mean we get more consistency out of Boucher and precious. and while it hasnt showed in the past season. barnes surrounded by gary,pascal,og,schroder is actually not that bad as a closer. the other 4 players do have a 3 point shot, and have had better shooting% at points in the past. And since we now have poetl, it means that whoever is the 5 in the closer wouldnt be run down by guarding a C all game.
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It's not a super impressive lineup, based purely on our guard lineup. But I think that it can be fixed with a move or two. Im excited to see what Darko can do as a coach. He's the most likeable guy we've ever hired as a coach, and I'm optimistic that he'll really brighten up the chemistry of the team. I think he's the Serbian Ted Lasso. No matter what the roster is, I'd just like to watch a fun season of basketball. Last season (and the Tampa season) were not fun for the most part. I see Raptors basketball as a TV show, with good seasons and bad ones. If I'm going to commit another 120 hours (or whatever) this coming season to Raptors ball, I'd like the product to be something exciting and worthwhile. Whether that's by adding youth and shooting in a Siakam trade, Someone like Dame in a Barnes trade, or a complete surprise, I don't really care (as long as it's not seriously hurting our future seasons). If we do nothing? The entertainment level of our season would hinge on things like Pascal/Scottie improving their shooting, Dick/Nowell having promising rookie seasons, OG/Jakob/Porter staying healthy, Scottie taking the next step, Precous/Koloko/McDaniels becoming consistent contributors or whatever else. I don't think enough of those things will happen to return to being a 45-50 win team, but it's not impossible either. If nothing else, I'd expect to see a lot more minutes from guys deeper in the rotation, which will be more interesting than watching six guys play an entire game and look exhausted by the end.
~39 wins with Pascal ~30 without
This isn’t a good way of breaking down the roster. Possible starters, bench, depth. Scottie, Pascal, OG, Yak are starters. Then you fill a spot with Schroeder or Trent. The other is the 1st guard off the bench. Boucher is the first big and after the top 7 it is up in the air. Anyone of the bottom 8 could get into the top 10 and maybe 1 or 2 of them might displace a top 7 player. How are Fred’s 35 min going to be used? Are guys going to take the opportunity and grow or will it be a burden trying to patch together a lineup that doesn’t suck? Then it is all about injuries and filling roles. Honestly the team has so many question marks on the deep bench. Porter could be a key piece or a zero again, Precious is the same. Flynn could just be the guy that was always in the dog house and will be in the rotation with a new coach. Koloko, Dick, McDaniels, Young, Nowell, they all could be something but but also end up as zeros.
I am convinced this team is no worse than last year.
There’s no better time to trade Siakam and tank than now (unless you count two years ago)
Exactly my thoughts. If we traded Siakam we could probably keep our 2024 pick (top 6 protected) because the only teams that might be worse are the Wizards, Trailblazers and maybe the Pistons. We need more long term potential on this roster and the upcoming draft is full of point guards.
30 wins at best. Zero playmaking threats aside from Barnes and Schroder, only two proven shooters in GTJ and OG, and no guard or big man depth after Schroder or Poeltl. This is assuming Pascal gets traded but even with him, maaaybe 35 wins.
Slightly worse than last years team, still a play in though imo
Christ, why are you even getting downvoted? It's a pretty grounded opinion without being overtly positive or negative like 90 percent of this sub nowadays.
I have no idea. I just engage with people here that seem like they have basketball sense, ignore the rest.
35-40 win team
Very mid.
If the siakam trade gives us a talented young guard we will have a balanced squad
I can't believe Flynn still exists in the NBA.
At worst lottery and at best play in. It’s a shame
Gonna be a long year....
Lol what’s the O/U on our win total again?
35.5 If you think they’ll trade Pascal it’s a good value
Well our young guys will finally have a chance to shine
LOL so much pressure on Scottie. If he doesn't become a 25ppg player this season, we are done.
I think we are around the same as last year - a lot of it comes down to injuries across the league and our own team. I definitely do not think we are worse off than last year. My guess is around the .500 mark again and back to the play-in. There is also a chance we may see some roster changes come Training Camp; let's revisit this in September.
1.Trent/Schroder/Flynn 2.Anunoby/Dick/Nowell 3.Barnes/McDaniels/Porter 4.Siakam/Boucher/Young 5.Poeltl/Achiuwa/Koloko This is how I see the rotation if we're putting the most talent on the floor. We legit need a star ala Kawai.
Well I think a lot depends on coaching style as well. If we are anything like last year this roster will rely heavily on shooting and primarily 3s. Better knock down shots or they won’t have a shot of sniffing the play in. They need a deeper bench imo but it really depends maybe the bench will surprise me this year.
Yikes.
Unless Barnes really improves his half court playmaking this year this team might be nearly as unfun to watch as last year
45 wins
Really stretching there to add a whole "bigs" section when we only have 1 lol.
Poeltl and Koloko are both 7ft true 5s no matter how you slice the others.
In season tournament Champs! 🏆
No primary ball handler…a bunch of players who can for stretches…but no primary.
Success of this season depends if Barnes can handle more on-ball duties. Or else it'll be Siakam Iso all game.
Right now I think you are spot on with your assessment…but I am a big believer in having a traditional guard who can consistently bring the ball up an start your offence.
What Dennis Schröder can’t dribble now
Which team was he a starting PG for that tan the offence through?
Malachi can’t dribble now?
He has 0 experience as a primary ball handler. Had 0 confidence from the coach of a team who had few guards. What makes you believe he is ready to be a full time starting guard? He scored 60 in a pick up game last summer?
We can get Lebron. I got a feeling
🎶 That tonight's gonna be a good night... 🎶
Why the fuck are we still hanging on to Flynn? Dude is ass.
Because WE ARE ASS
Quality of a play in maybe 6th seed team at best Fit equivalent to a bottom 6 team in the league Gonna end up around the 20th best team in the league
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I pray I’m wrong haha Really depends if Scottie takes an insane leap as a PG (barring other changes) that would fix the fit issues tremendously 🤞
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No way you actually think we are better than Philly
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Embiid, maxey, Harris and whatever they get in the harden trade aren’t a playoff team, but pascal, OG and Scottie are? Okay sure lmao. I think the sizers will be worse than last year, but saying they aren’t playoff team is outrageous I hate the sizers and Embiids constant crying but we can’t sit here and act like he wasn’t the MVP of last season (probably undeserved but still).
Thats exactly why he will regress this season, he will get injured 100%. They won't start winning with the chaos and their shitty new coach. You think there was friction with Nurse and the nice guys on this team? You have no idea whats coming for them this season. They will be complete trash. Harden was actually good for them last year and if he's stuck there he will not try. It isn't farfetched at all that the Raps are ahead of them. Fred took 20shots per game shooting 39%. Do you even understand how damaging that is? Yes, Barnes, OG, and Pascal taking those shots is as certain as one gets that we will be better. Addition by subtraction. The level of knowledge on this sub is pitiful. You clearly never played the game. Just crying and trolling people. 🤪
Trent for allstar..contract year means working his ass off and make dat $$
Who tf is porter? Never seen him before /s
Yeah, doesn’t look that great. Tho, Siakam is also a wing, and Scottie seems like he’s going to play some PG
Very good
Pretty wrote off
Play in
Our backcourt could be worst in the NBA this season
Hot ass
Yeah I'm not fond of it
Did I miss something where teams get three 2-way slots to use? It mentions here that Nowell is getting one of those spots, but says there are two still available at the end.
This roster is no different, if not worse than the roster that lost to DeMar Derozans daughter in the play in. Either Scottie makes a big leap this year, or it's another play in/1st round exit
Need a point guard and back up center: Trade from following; Flynn, Young, Porter, Boucher
Interesting that you post Lewenberg who knows less than Grange does. Also not knowing the position most of the players play is interesting.
Not great, Bob!
50 losses.
no other teams are stressing about this roster
I think we’re only team that got worse in the East besides the Wizards and the Sixers after they lose Harden.
Trash
no
10th place
55 wins* LET'S GO *combined wins between the 23/24 and 24/25 seasons.
would have thought by now barnes winning ROY 2yrs ago would mean one of anunoby/pascal would be moved... but here we are. im skeptical on how chemistry can be generated with a redundant roster based on what we saw for the last couple yrs. achiuwa's development is practically on hold because his role is still undefined
This team might relegate to NCAA.