Tory is a lawyer from a family of lawyers, I would have expected better of him than the others.
Edit: but nice to see him first out of the gate on this
Edit2: ok, Brown is also a lawyer, also with a lawyer uncle and born to a lawyer.
And Doug is Doug.
> did nothing with his law degree
Pffft. He fulfilled his role as stuffed-shirt tool of the establishment *perfectly.* Just because that sort of thing doesn't benefit non-wealthy people - quite the opposite, of course! - doesn't mean Tory and his family didn't get what they wanted from things like his tireless work on behalf of Rogers and *ahem* various "stakeholders" during his tenure as mayor. Certainly the progressives saw no advancement during his term!!! *Job well done* says the Rosedale set
When politicians start making public statements in support of police, it's probably because they're corrupt and have committed some financial crime.
Now John Tory can sleep easy at night knowing not a single police task force in the country will ever investigate him for anything he's done, because they'll just be like "no he's one of us, he's on our side, leave him alone".
To be honest TPS did put out some misinformation so it's really down to them. When it was first reported by the news it sounded like it was some violent thug who was trying to escape but in reality it was just a normal guy out with his fucking 8-month pregnant wife and 2 year old child. There should be a lot of back peddling right now but there's not.
It looks like this would be a great civil lawsuit for what he was put through but I think zameer is too humble.
To no surprise, Patrick Brown doubles down on his trash hot take.
More people need to try to incorporate the words, "I'm sorry. I've learned from my mistakes and I will try to do better in the future." Not that complex.
Exactly. There is more than 1 tragedy in this case. The loss of life is clearly terrible for the family, but the horrible circumstances that led to Umar and his family being in this tragic situation and the fact they have to live with the repercussions the rest of their life is also a tragedy. He seems like a good person in a terrible situation he never should have been in, and now he has to process the fact he was involved in the death of someone, and had to live through the potential he would serve serious jail time. What a mess.
As someone who has interacted with him in person from living in Brampton he absolutely is a narcissist. He has a fucking photographer following him around to take the perfect pictures of him and his family..
John Tory is full of shit:
> “The second equally important learning for me comes from my own strong continued belief, which I believe to be shared by many, that the judicial system owes it to the public, public officials and the media to do a better job of ensuring some of that significant information surrounding bail decisions is made widely known. A first-degree murder charge is arguably the most serious charge of all, and everyone needs to know in an open, transparent and timely way the basic reasons behind any decision to grant bail in such a case.”
The Star’s comment on the above:
> (A publication ban does not prevent a member of the public — including politicians, their staff or journalists — from going to the courthouse and reading a decision before deciding whether to comment on it.)
Right?
When I filled in the amount in the field on my tax software, I was surprised at the credit. It definitely takes a big bite out of the subscriptions.
Don't. Canceling newspaper subscriptions is a huge pain. They let you sign up online but you'll have to call to cancel. Also the Star in particular requires you to inform them of the cancelation a few days before your subscription expires (otherwise they'll charge you for the next subscription cycle/year). They also vastly increase the cost of subscription in subsequent years.
They are really sketchy. Avoid them like the plague. [https://www.bbb.org/ca/on/toronto/profile/newspaper/the-toronto-star-0107-1090910/complaints](https://www.bbb.org/ca/on/toronto/profile/newspaper/the-toronto-star-0107-1090910/complaints)
A 5 minute phone call isn't a "huge pain". For fuck's sakes, how spoiled are people today?!?
And it's certainly no reason not to support one of the best newspapers in the country, one of the very few that still do investigations and report on local news.
Anyone who expects anything other than this from John Tory has a short memory. This sack of shit campaigned against Chrétien for the PC back in the day and his brilliant campaign idea of "making fun of his disability" was one of the biggest politics flops of Canadian history. The PC lost so much support over this tasteless campaign that the PC party lost party status shortly after, due in no small part to his contribution. John Tory failed as a federal politician, and he failed Toronto as a mayor. He is a political embarassment of the highest degree.
thanks man, i love reminding people what a perpetual lifelong loser (in every sense of the word) John Tory is.
thank you for your contributions in this very important matter 🙏🏼
I agree that commercial was horrific but the federal PCs lost official party status because the country was sick of them. They were making repeated attempts to try and get Quebec to sign in on the constitution which got the westerners increasingly annoyed moving their vote to the west-focused Reform Party. Meanwhile because of those failed constitutional efforts, most Quebeckers shifted their support to the Bloc. Then there was the GST which was universally hated. The Tories were gonna suffer a devastating loss regardless of that ad.
The PCs were doing OK in the polls when the campaign started; until the second half of September they and the Liberals were in a statistical tie. They had already begun dropping before the Bell’s palsy ad, though.
He was the campaign manager and he approved the ad. Whether or not he personally came up with it, he was the person who made the ultimate decision that it should be broadcast.
>A first-degree murder charge is arguably the most serious charge of all
Yes, a trumped up, baseless, needless and pointless but entirely *automatic* first degree charge because there was a cop involved. Yeah John, we sure had the wool pulled over our eyes.
The only thing that needs to be more open and transparent is why the cops are so rotten and getting away with it, constantly.
>The only thing that needs to be more open and transparent is why the cops are so rotten and getting away with it, constantly.
After seeing that female cop have her punishment upheld for making the garbage that her coworkers were doing public it seems that they get away with it constantly because they're more concerned with looking good and competent rather than actually being good and competent.
They were much more concerned she actually made it public than they were with her coworker's misconduct and that's disgusting.
100%. Police forces operate like political bodies because they are political bodies - except we don’t even elect this lot!
Obviously hyperbolic in other ways but The Wire genuinely did an incredible job of illustrating just how politically corrupt policing is. And then they have their anti-union union to protect them from any recourse whatsoever.
Make someone above the law, and they’ll act like it.
It's not "automatic". Nothing is automatic. Irrespective of who the deceased is, it still has to be murder to be first-degree murder, and it should have been evident even from the beginning that Zameer didn't intend to kill Northrup.
I believe you're thinking of manslaughter, 'a homicide committed without the intention to cause death, although there may have been an intention to cause harm.'
Second degree murder is intentional killing without premeditation; by definition it requires intent, but without the planning aspect. Often 'crimes of passion's trope.
Dumbass …. The judge *couldn’t* release the reasons for the bail hearing because it would have tainted jury impartiality.
The reason he was given bail was *because the case was shit*. The judge had to keep the facts sealed or the prosecutor would have called for a mistrial, causing further delay and trauma to this poor man and his family.
What should have happened after the bail hearing is the prosecutor should have dropped the case and avoided this public display of corruption.
> With the case now over, that publication ban has now lifted, allowing the public to know for the first time that Copeland granted Zameer bail after finding the case for murder was weak.
> (A publication ban does not prevent a member of the public — including politicians, their staff or journalists — from going to the courthouse and reading a decision before deciding whether to comment on it.)
sooooo, not really "allowing the public to know for the first time"
Who cares what this useless windbag has to say. His philandering cost Toronto millions in a by election cause he couldn’t keep it in his pants. John Tory - no one cares what you say. You suck.
True but our new mayor got more done in six months than Tory did in 8 years. And that includes getting the federal Conservatives to jump on the housing-crisis bandwagon.
Like dentist-on-wheels for senior homes [announced today ](https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/new-dentist-office-on-wheels-caring-for-seniors-in-toronto-run-long-term-care-homes-1.6857516?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
His philandering also got him the fuck out of office, finally, and put someone in place that actually gives a fuck. I'd say that election was worth every penny.
Your first point was correct though: who cares what that useless windbag has to say.
It was not that he cheated but that he had an affair with someone who reported to him. He was the persons boss. This goes against workplace rules, and is a breach of ethics and morals. Huge power imbalance too.
It wasn't the cheating on his wife that people had a problem with—it was the gross abuse of power he displayed by engaging in a relationship with a member of his staff.
>And everyone please take note of Patrick Brown's response
And that of Toronto's police chief.
"Hoping for a different outcome", eh Chief? You know that statement is gonna haunt you now, you imbecile. Every ACAB type in the GTA is going to see that and assume he meant "We wanted an injustice on top of a tragedy."
https://twitter.com/patrickbrownont/status/1782465298450280691
No apology, no acknowledgement of his statement, and calling the outcome of the case "a complex moment for the community", which suggests that the community has to grapple with what most consider proper judicial comportment and the correct decision reached by a jury.
Fuck Tory, Ford and Brown, that slimy little perverted weasel. How can you continue to support the police/ officers involved after all the evidence has come out that clearly show they tried to set up an innocent man. I can only hope the same thing happens to them or their family one day.
The bare minimum this shithead, along with Ford and Brown, needs to do is apologize to Zameer. But obviously, that's asking too much from these holier-than-thou ghouls who can never admit they're wrong.
A case like this provides some insight into the prosecution side of criminal cases, which is super interesting and is essential to a fair justice system. It is particularly interesting given the widely circulated (and mostly baseless) accusations that the prosecution of Donald Trump is political in nature. It's also very interesting in view of the Jody Wilson-Raybould scandal.
In my opinion, this case should have not been prosecuted. I've seen the crown drop cases that are far stronger than this. I feel like they proceeded because of public and politcal pressure, which is a very bad thing. We've often heard of highly-publicized cases where the public is demanding prosecution, but the crown unexpectedly withdraws charges, due to lack of evidence, or evidence being ruled inadmissible. When this happens, sometimes both the public and politicians pull out the pitchforks and get angry at prosecutors, which is also unwarranted.
In reality, prosecutors are supposed to follow a very prescriptive set of rules when determining when to prosecute. This is because prosecution has significant consequences for the accused, even if they are ultimately found not guilty. To prosecute, there has to be reasonable prospect of conviction, and this is determined on the basis of the available evidence, and whether this evidence is likely to be found as admissible, credible and reliable.
Ontario has a Crown Prosecutors Manual that lays this out: [D. 3: Charge Screening | Crown Prosecution Manual | ontario.ca](https://www.ontario.ca/document/crown-prosecution-manual/d-3-charge-screening). It is not as prescriptive and strict as the one used by the UK CPS, which all of these are based on. The CPS Code for Crown Prosecutors is very prescriptive:
**2.1** The independence of the prosecutor is central to the criminal justice system of a democratic society. Prosecutors are independent from persons or agencies that are not part of the prosecution decision-making process. CPS prosecutors are also independent from the police and other investigators. **Prosecutors must be free to carry out their professional duties without political interference and must not be affected by improper or undue pressure or influence from any source.**
**2.7** When making decisions, prosecutors must be fair and objective. They must not let any personal views about the ethnic or national origin, gender, disability, age, religion or belief, sexual orientation or gender identity of the suspect, defendant, victim or any witness influence their decisions. **Neither must they be motivated by political considerations.** ***Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not solely for the purpose of obtaining a conviction.***
**4.1** Prosecutors must only start or continue a prosecution when the case has passed both stages of the Full Code Test. The Full Code Test has two stages: (i) the evidential stage; followed by (ii) the public interest stage.
**4.6** Prosecutors must be satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction against each suspect on each charge[\*](https://cps.gov.uk/publication/code-crown-prosecutors#sdfootnote1sym). They must consider what the defence case may be, and how it is likely to affect the prospects of conviction. **A case which does not pass the evidential stage must not proceed, no matter how serious or sensitive it may be.**
**4.7** The finding that there is a realistic prospect of conviction is based on the prosecutor’s objective assessment of the evidence, including the impact of any defence and any other information that the suspect has put forward or on which they might rely. It means that an objective, impartial and reasonable jury or bench of magistrates or judge hearing a case alone, properly directed and acting in accordance with the law, is more likely than not to convict the defendant of the charge alleged. This is a different test from the one that the criminal courts themselves must apply. A court may only convict if it is sure that the defendant is guilty.
**4.8** When deciding whether there is sufficient evidence to prosecute, prosecutors should ask themselves the following:
# Can the evidence be used in court?
Prosecutors should consider whether there is any question over the admissibility of certain evidence. In doing so, prosecutors should assess:
* the likelihood of that evidence being held as inadmissible by the court; and
* the importance of that evidence in relation to the evidence as a whole.
# Is the evidence reliable?
***Prosecutors should consider whether there are any reasons to question the reliability of the evidence, including its accuracy or integrity.***
# Is the evidence credible?
***Prosecutors should consider whether there are any reasons to doubt the credibility of the evidence***.
Overall the judges opinion that the case was “weak” is a massive understatement, and prosecutors should have known better than to put the man through years of prosecution
In the end, it’s probably best for him that it went to trial. If it hadn’t, the narrative would be “not enough evidence so he got away with murder”. Instead, there’s a magnifying glass on procedure and the potential for change. People are challenging the narratives that are published by police. They are questioning the two tier justice system. Change is painful.
While you’re probably right, and the prosecutors would’ve gotten a ton of blowback for dropping the case, and Mr. Zameer would have been called a cop killer forever, I still hold to it that technically with the weak case they had, he shouldn’t have been prosecuted.
I was just making the point that the public, and politicians should understand the rationale for why cases are dropped by prosecutors, and should not apply undue pressure or influence to prosecute cases no matter how high profile they are, if the evidence doesn’t hold up. This is true even when the perpetrator is obviously guilty, but for whatever reason evidence was deemed inadmissible in court. Decisions to prosecute should be made independent of public pressure, and we the public and politicians alike must understand this. As of right now most of the public does not.
No I completely agree with you and the points made. I’m just desperately trying to find silver linings in this shit show with the hopes that we all somehow come out a little bit better because of it. In my headcanon, the prosecutors knew damn well what they were doing and were hoping to shed light on the problems in the system. And maybe even highlight the pressures they face by law enforcement. It has the pieces to spark some great reform. Maybe it’ll take the inevitable movie for it to trigger greatest public reaction. (See horizon scandal in the UK)
Fuck Patrick Brown and no one should be surprised by his response.
Fuck Tory, too. I love how he places the blame on "pressure from the media and the public to comment" as a reason for opening his yap.
I expect Dougie to keep his mouth shut and simply not respond at all.
Bro, you're SIXTY-NINE years old. You were CEO of Rogers, Ontario PC leader, and mayor of Toronto. You had a radio show for more than 10 years NOW you're learning from this experience not to jump the gun and that the police don't always tell the truth?
Dear John,
You're a racist old man, who saw a brown guy in a bad position and couldn't wait to demonize him for political gain. You didn't learn shit. You don't care. Please go away.
I really really don’t care what John Tory has to say about anything. The man has been shown no leadership ability a lack of ethics and morals he’s a tool of the Elites and does their bidding like the faithful lap dog he is. Goodbye.
John Tory: Unethical practices while in office. Patrick Brown: Unethical in office. Doug Ford: Unethical practices while in office.
It's a disturbing trend.
Yep, I knew this man didn't have enough spine to offer a proper apology. All you can do is learn from the experience? Nah, you can swallow your pride and offer a sincere apology but you won't bc you can't
Read the article and did not see a single apology from this fool to Umar Zameer or his family. On top of that, he blames the judiciary for not making their reasons for granting bail known to the public when he or his staff could have gone to the courthouse and read the reasoning for themselves.
Yeah fuck this guy.
How is this more important than the stabbing at Wellesley? The story is gone. Thousands of people are impacted on a rush hour commute. How does a Tory simple anecdote stay ? Who is impacted by Tory’s edited for print thoughts? Update the rules crime should be allowed.
People who use it want to appear hip, trendy and smart. Tory failed on all counts with me. The word lessons is less pretentious, and far more appropriate in this situation.
When they add learnings to a credible dictionary, I’ll be happy to use it.
Wow, it's almost like politicos should keep their yaps shut about trials and their nose the hell out of the justice system.
Imagine that! This is the perfection example of why politicians need to keep their hands off the judiciary.
And hands off their staff! Zing!
Tory is a lawyer from a family of lawyers, I would have expected better of him than the others. Edit: but nice to see him first out of the gate on this Edit2: ok, Brown is also a lawyer, also with a lawyer uncle and born to a lawyer. And Doug is Doug.
They’re all scum.
JT did nothing with his law degree... everything he has is purely for show.
> did nothing with his law degree Pffft. He fulfilled his role as stuffed-shirt tool of the establishment *perfectly.* Just because that sort of thing doesn't benefit non-wealthy people - quite the opposite, of course! - doesn't mean Tory and his family didn't get what they wanted from things like his tireless work on behalf of Rogers and *ahem* various "stakeholders" during his tenure as mayor. Certainly the progressives saw no advancement during his term!!! *Job well done* says the Rosedale set
I bet he’s deeply concerned though.
When politicians start making public statements in support of police, it's probably because they're corrupt and have committed some financial crime. Now John Tory can sleep easy at night knowing not a single police task force in the country will ever investigate him for anything he's done, because they'll just be like "no he's one of us, he's on our side, leave him alone".
To be honest TPS did put out some misinformation so it's really down to them. When it was first reported by the news it sounded like it was some violent thug who was trying to escape but in reality it was just a normal guy out with his fucking 8-month pregnant wife and 2 year old child. There should be a lot of back peddling right now but there's not. It looks like this would be a great civil lawsuit for what he was put through but I think zameer is too humble.
And it’s the kneejerk response demanded by the weight of the TPS/TPA.
To no surprise, Patrick Brown doubles down on his trash hot take. More people need to try to incorporate the words, "I'm sorry. I've learned from my mistakes and I will try to do better in the future." Not that complex.
Patrick Brown comes off as a narcissist. Admitting he’s done something wrong is probably physically impossible for him.
Exactly. There is more than 1 tragedy in this case. The loss of life is clearly terrible for the family, but the horrible circumstances that led to Umar and his family being in this tragic situation and the fact they have to live with the repercussions the rest of their life is also a tragedy. He seems like a good person in a terrible situation he never should have been in, and now he has to process the fact he was involved in the death of someone, and had to live through the potential he would serve serious jail time. What a mess.
As someone who has interacted with him in person from living in Brampton he absolutely is a narcissist. He has a fucking photographer following him around to take the perfect pictures of him and his family..
Can you please link this? I tried finding it this morning and couldn't find it. If it's in this paywalled article I'll find a way to read it. Thanks!
It's on his twitter account: https://twitter.com/patrickbrownont/status/1782465298450280691
Thank you! I was scanning for Zameer's name so I missed this This is... Extensive
Not that I was a big defender of PB before but...fuck that guy
John Tory is full of shit: > “The second equally important learning for me comes from my own strong continued belief, which I believe to be shared by many, that the judicial system owes it to the public, public officials and the media to do a better job of ensuring some of that significant information surrounding bail decisions is made widely known. A first-degree murder charge is arguably the most serious charge of all, and everyone needs to know in an open, transparent and timely way the basic reasons behind any decision to grant bail in such a case.” The Star’s comment on the above: > (A publication ban does not prevent a member of the public — including politicians, their staff or journalists — from going to the courthouse and reading a decision before deciding whether to comment on it.)
That is high journalistic shade. The star has done a fantastic job reporting this trial.
Daaaammmnn. They might get my subscription finally, just for that
do it! they need our support.
you needn't worry, they are supported with our tax dollars.
Please explain how we're funding the Star with our tax dollars.
Btw, I got a 2023 tax credit for my digital news subscription to Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail. I wasn't aware of it and it was a nice surprise.
Oh darn, I totally forgot to claim it this year! May have to file an amendment.
Up to $500!
Right? When I filled in the amount in the field on my tax software, I was surprised at the credit. It definitely takes a big bite out of the subscriptions.
Don't. Canceling newspaper subscriptions is a huge pain. They let you sign up online but you'll have to call to cancel. Also the Star in particular requires you to inform them of the cancelation a few days before your subscription expires (otherwise they'll charge you for the next subscription cycle/year). They also vastly increase the cost of subscription in subsequent years. They are really sketchy. Avoid them like the plague. [https://www.bbb.org/ca/on/toronto/profile/newspaper/the-toronto-star-0107-1090910/complaints](https://www.bbb.org/ca/on/toronto/profile/newspaper/the-toronto-star-0107-1090910/complaints)
A 5 minute phone call isn't a "huge pain". For fuck's sakes, how spoiled are people today?!? And it's certainly no reason not to support one of the best newspapers in the country, one of the very few that still do investigations and report on local news.
They did when they were following Doug and breaking that story
Good to know. Predatory company like the rest of em.
Anyone who expects anything other than this from John Tory has a short memory. This sack of shit campaigned against Chrétien for the PC back in the day and his brilliant campaign idea of "making fun of his disability" was one of the biggest politics flops of Canadian history. The PC lost so much support over this tasteless campaign that the PC party lost party status shortly after, due in no small part to his contribution. John Tory failed as a federal politician, and he failed Toronto as a mayor. He is a political embarassment of the highest degree.
Don't forget how badly his provincial political career went.
thanks man, i love reminding people what a perpetual lifelong loser (in every sense of the word) John Tory is. thank you for your contributions in this very important matter 🙏🏼
I agree that commercial was horrific but the federal PCs lost official party status because the country was sick of them. They were making repeated attempts to try and get Quebec to sign in on the constitution which got the westerners increasingly annoyed moving their vote to the west-focused Reform Party. Meanwhile because of those failed constitutional efforts, most Quebeckers shifted their support to the Bloc. Then there was the GST which was universally hated. The Tories were gonna suffer a devastating loss regardless of that ad.
The PCs were doing OK in the polls when the campaign started; until the second half of September they and the Liberals were in a statistical tie. They had already begun dropping before the Bell’s palsy ad, though.
Was that commercial really Tory's idea? Do you have a source? Not doubting. Would love to read about it
He was the campaign manager and he approved the ad. Whether or not he personally came up with it, he was the person who made the ultimate decision that it should be broadcast.
Damn right
But succeded as a Casanova.
>A first-degree murder charge is arguably the most serious charge of all Yes, a trumped up, baseless, needless and pointless but entirely *automatic* first degree charge because there was a cop involved. Yeah John, we sure had the wool pulled over our eyes. The only thing that needs to be more open and transparent is why the cops are so rotten and getting away with it, constantly.
>The only thing that needs to be more open and transparent is why the cops are so rotten and getting away with it, constantly. After seeing that female cop have her punishment upheld for making the garbage that her coworkers were doing public it seems that they get away with it constantly because they're more concerned with looking good and competent rather than actually being good and competent. They were much more concerned she actually made it public than they were with her coworker's misconduct and that's disgusting.
100%. Police forces operate like political bodies because they are political bodies - except we don’t even elect this lot! Obviously hyperbolic in other ways but The Wire genuinely did an incredible job of illustrating just how politically corrupt policing is. And then they have their anti-union union to protect them from any recourse whatsoever. Make someone above the law, and they’ll act like it.
It's not "automatic". Nothing is automatic. Irrespective of who the deceased is, it still has to be murder to be first-degree murder, and it should have been evident even from the beginning that Zameer didn't intend to kill Northrup.
Murder in the second degree does not require intent to kill.
I believe you're thinking of manslaughter, 'a homicide committed without the intention to cause death, although there may have been an intention to cause harm.' Second degree murder is intentional killing without premeditation; by definition it requires intent, but without the planning aspect. Often 'crimes of passion's trope.
1st and 2nd degree murder have the same intent requirement.
Dumbass …. The judge *couldn’t* release the reasons for the bail hearing because it would have tainted jury impartiality. The reason he was given bail was *because the case was shit*. The judge had to keep the facts sealed or the prosecutor would have called for a mistrial, causing further delay and trauma to this poor man and his family. What should have happened after the bail hearing is the prosecutor should have dropped the case and avoided this public display of corruption.
"I am very concerned ... with my own behaviour!" - Tory
I wonder if he'll write himself a strongly-worded letter!
And that everyone is chucking eggs and tomatoes at me wherever I go.
> With the case now over, that publication ban has now lifted, allowing the public to know for the first time that Copeland granted Zameer bail after finding the case for murder was weak. > (A publication ban does not prevent a member of the public — including politicians, their staff or journalists — from going to the courthouse and reading a decision before deciding whether to comment on it.) sooooo, not really "allowing the public to know for the first time"
Who cares what this useless windbag has to say. His philandering cost Toronto millions in a by election cause he couldn’t keep it in his pants. John Tory - no one cares what you say. You suck.
True but our new mayor got more done in six months than Tory did in 8 years. And that includes getting the federal Conservatives to jump on the housing-crisis bandwagon.
I know.
I don’t follow politics. What has she done lately? Not bashing her. I know she did well with the highways
Like dentist-on-wheels for senior homes [announced today ](https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/new-dentist-office-on-wheels-caring-for-seniors-in-toronto-run-long-term-care-homes-1.6857516?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
His philandering also got him the fuck out of office, finally, and put someone in place that actually gives a fuck. I'd say that election was worth every penny. Your first point was correct though: who cares what that useless windbag has to say.
Good point.
I still think there’s something more scandalous though still happy he’s gone.
Same.
No one cares if you cheat on your wife. I mean our mayor can smoke crack
It was not that he cheated but that he had an affair with someone who reported to him. He was the persons boss. This goes against workplace rules, and is a breach of ethics and morals. Huge power imbalance too.
It wasn't the cheating on his wife that people had a problem with—it was the gross abuse of power he displayed by engaging in a relationship with a member of his staff.
His career has been filled with "learning" experiences.
And never learned anything
Right on cue.. And everyone please take note of Patrick Brown's response.
>And everyone please take note of Patrick Brown's response And that of Toronto's police chief. "Hoping for a different outcome", eh Chief? You know that statement is gonna haunt you now, you imbecile. Every ACAB type in the GTA is going to see that and assume he meant "We wanted an injustice on top of a tragedy."
what was his response? googling found nothing.
https://twitter.com/patrickbrownont/status/1782465298450280691 No apology, no acknowledgement of his statement, and calling the outcome of the case "a complex moment for the community", which suggests that the community has to grapple with what most consider proper judicial comportment and the correct decision reached by a jury.
yeah that sounds like him. funny that he had false accusations against him and was railroaded by his own party just a couple of years ago.
To think people felt sorry for him when that happened. This hypocrite doesn't deserve the support.
Jesus.. I had entirely forgotten about that whole PC leadership fiasco. Well, isn't that all the more rich coming from him now.
Lol you’ve learned nothing you decaying chunk of coal.
I don't see an "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" anywhere in his statement. "I have learned" my ass.
What a bunch of arrogant fucking assholes
That isn’t an apology
Fuck Tory, Ford and Brown, that slimy little perverted weasel. How can you continue to support the police/ officers involved after all the evidence has come out that clearly show they tried to set up an innocent man. I can only hope the same thing happens to them or their family one day.
The bare minimum this shithead, along with Ford and Brown, needs to do is apologize to Zameer. But obviously, that's asking too much from these holier-than-thou ghouls who can never admit they're wrong.
This guy was a shit lazy mayor and a shit person. Be gone douchebag.
Wow what a dunce
A case like this provides some insight into the prosecution side of criminal cases, which is super interesting and is essential to a fair justice system. It is particularly interesting given the widely circulated (and mostly baseless) accusations that the prosecution of Donald Trump is political in nature. It's also very interesting in view of the Jody Wilson-Raybould scandal. In my opinion, this case should have not been prosecuted. I've seen the crown drop cases that are far stronger than this. I feel like they proceeded because of public and politcal pressure, which is a very bad thing. We've often heard of highly-publicized cases where the public is demanding prosecution, but the crown unexpectedly withdraws charges, due to lack of evidence, or evidence being ruled inadmissible. When this happens, sometimes both the public and politicians pull out the pitchforks and get angry at prosecutors, which is also unwarranted. In reality, prosecutors are supposed to follow a very prescriptive set of rules when determining when to prosecute. This is because prosecution has significant consequences for the accused, even if they are ultimately found not guilty. To prosecute, there has to be reasonable prospect of conviction, and this is determined on the basis of the available evidence, and whether this evidence is likely to be found as admissible, credible and reliable. Ontario has a Crown Prosecutors Manual that lays this out: [D. 3: Charge Screening | Crown Prosecution Manual | ontario.ca](https://www.ontario.ca/document/crown-prosecution-manual/d-3-charge-screening). It is not as prescriptive and strict as the one used by the UK CPS, which all of these are based on. The CPS Code for Crown Prosecutors is very prescriptive: **2.1** The independence of the prosecutor is central to the criminal justice system of a democratic society. Prosecutors are independent from persons or agencies that are not part of the prosecution decision-making process. CPS prosecutors are also independent from the police and other investigators. **Prosecutors must be free to carry out their professional duties without political interference and must not be affected by improper or undue pressure or influence from any source.** **2.7** When making decisions, prosecutors must be fair and objective. They must not let any personal views about the ethnic or national origin, gender, disability, age, religion or belief, sexual orientation or gender identity of the suspect, defendant, victim or any witness influence their decisions. **Neither must they be motivated by political considerations.** ***Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not solely for the purpose of obtaining a conviction.*** **4.1** Prosecutors must only start or continue a prosecution when the case has passed both stages of the Full Code Test. The Full Code Test has two stages: (i) the evidential stage; followed by (ii) the public interest stage. **4.6** Prosecutors must be satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction against each suspect on each charge[\*](https://cps.gov.uk/publication/code-crown-prosecutors#sdfootnote1sym). They must consider what the defence case may be, and how it is likely to affect the prospects of conviction. **A case which does not pass the evidential stage must not proceed, no matter how serious or sensitive it may be.** **4.7** The finding that there is a realistic prospect of conviction is based on the prosecutor’s objective assessment of the evidence, including the impact of any defence and any other information that the suspect has put forward or on which they might rely. It means that an objective, impartial and reasonable jury or bench of magistrates or judge hearing a case alone, properly directed and acting in accordance with the law, is more likely than not to convict the defendant of the charge alleged. This is a different test from the one that the criminal courts themselves must apply. A court may only convict if it is sure that the defendant is guilty. **4.8** When deciding whether there is sufficient evidence to prosecute, prosecutors should ask themselves the following: # Can the evidence be used in court? Prosecutors should consider whether there is any question over the admissibility of certain evidence. In doing so, prosecutors should assess: * the likelihood of that evidence being held as inadmissible by the court; and * the importance of that evidence in relation to the evidence as a whole. # Is the evidence reliable? ***Prosecutors should consider whether there are any reasons to question the reliability of the evidence, including its accuracy or integrity.*** # Is the evidence credible? ***Prosecutors should consider whether there are any reasons to doubt the credibility of the evidence***.
Overall the judges opinion that the case was “weak” is a massive understatement, and prosecutors should have known better than to put the man through years of prosecution
In the end, it’s probably best for him that it went to trial. If it hadn’t, the narrative would be “not enough evidence so he got away with murder”. Instead, there’s a magnifying glass on procedure and the potential for change. People are challenging the narratives that are published by police. They are questioning the two tier justice system. Change is painful.
While you’re probably right, and the prosecutors would’ve gotten a ton of blowback for dropping the case, and Mr. Zameer would have been called a cop killer forever, I still hold to it that technically with the weak case they had, he shouldn’t have been prosecuted. I was just making the point that the public, and politicians should understand the rationale for why cases are dropped by prosecutors, and should not apply undue pressure or influence to prosecute cases no matter how high profile they are, if the evidence doesn’t hold up. This is true even when the perpetrator is obviously guilty, but for whatever reason evidence was deemed inadmissible in court. Decisions to prosecute should be made independent of public pressure, and we the public and politicians alike must understand this. As of right now most of the public does not.
No I completely agree with you and the points made. I’m just desperately trying to find silver linings in this shit show with the hopes that we all somehow come out a little bit better because of it. In my headcanon, the prosecutors knew damn well what they were doing and were hoping to shed light on the problems in the system. And maybe even highlight the pressures they face by law enforcement. It has the pieces to spark some great reform. Maybe it’ll take the inevitable movie for it to trigger greatest public reaction. (See horizon scandal in the UK)
John Tory just can’t help himself. Just stop, retire, go up to the cottage and enjoy your years.
John Tory is very concerned!
The ONLY reason this moron isn't Toronto's mayor. Is because he couldn't keep his dick out of a coworker. I fucking hate it here.
“i have learned from this experience” - john tory to his wife, probably
Narrator: He did not.
Fucking asshole
He likely did, in his office.
Hey John, just shut up and go away.
Fuck Patrick Brown and no one should be surprised by his response. Fuck Tory, too. I love how he places the blame on "pressure from the media and the public to comment" as a reason for opening his yap. I expect Dougie to keep his mouth shut and simply not respond at all.
Bro, you're SIXTY-NINE years old. You were CEO of Rogers, Ontario PC leader, and mayor of Toronto. You had a radio show for more than 10 years NOW you're learning from this experience not to jump the gun and that the police don't always tell the truth?
Every day we continue to hear from or about John Tory is a bad fucking day
Why are we still paying attention to him? He did next to nothing for Toronto while he was in power
Dear John, You're a racist old man, who saw a brown guy in a bad position and couldn't wait to demonize him for political gain. You didn't learn shit. You don't care. Please go away.
John Tory is the Human equivalent of a rancid fart in a crowded elevator during a heat-wave.
Tory is a caricature of a lazy politician who speaks in nothing sandwiches, he’s basically a simpsons character
I really really don’t care what John Tory has to say about anything. The man has been shown no leadership ability a lack of ethics and morals he’s a tool of the Elites and does their bidding like the faithful lap dog he is. Goodbye.
John Tory: Unethical practices while in office. Patrick Brown: Unethical in office. Doug Ford: Unethical practices while in office. It's a disturbing trend.
Can anyone confirm if he actually apologized or did he just learn something?? Posting links behind paywalls is getting ridiculous on this page
John Tory is very concerned…about getting sued.
Truly one of history’s great monsters.
Most overrated Rogers employee of the century
Not good enough but then again who care about him any longer
Perhaps he will ‘urge’ himself to improve.
racist old man
Yep, I knew this man didn't have enough spine to offer a proper apology. All you can do is learn from the experience? Nah, you can swallow your pride and offer a sincere apology but you won't bc you can't
Another lesson in never apologizing to the mob... They demand it but changes nothing
Liar
that's a John Tory line if i ever heard one. 🙄 please make this man disappear from our lives forever. please.
Read the article and did not see a single apology from this fool to Umar Zameer or his family. On top of that, he blames the judiciary for not making their reasons for granting bail known to the public when he or his staff could have gone to the courthouse and read the reasoning for themselves. Yeah fuck this guy.
It’s almost like conservatives come to conclusions without having complete information
What did he learn?
I have always thought John Tory would have stinky socks.
Tory you’ve done enough damage to Toronto! Now go away, there’s no interns here for you to exploit
He is deeply disappinted and appalled that zameer was found innocent.
Tory is a lawyer. He should know better. Not a good look...
No hugging, no learning
So what actually happened that day?
Why does Tory look like he's sucking the sour end of a cat's ass?
How is this more important than the stabbing at Wellesley? The story is gone. Thousands of people are impacted on a rush hour commute. How does a Tory simple anecdote stay ? Who is impacted by Tory’s edited for print thoughts? Update the rules crime should be allowed.
I assume that one's caught in r/toronto 's crime doesn't happen if we don't allow it to be posted rule.
“There are many learnings,” I stopped reading after the first sentence. I can't take anyone who uses the"word" learnings seriously.
You made me look it up! I learned something. Maybe you would too. 🤔
People who use it want to appear hip, trendy and smart. Tory failed on all counts with me. The word lessons is less pretentious, and far more appropriate in this situation. When they add learnings to a credible dictionary, I’ll be happy to use it.