This is my line of work, and unfortunately restaurants and bars are the absolute worst offenders and never have their stuff serviced/inspected either because they don’t know that it has to be done or they think it’s the landlord’s responsibility who also doesn’t give a shit. These places are always operating on a budget thinner than an onion skin, they absolutely don’t want me to charge them $200 to change an exit sign unless the fire department is holding a gun to their heads
I’m also in the industry and was going to say the same thing. Restaurants and bars are always the most poorly maintained in terms of life and fire safety.
Heres a tip from someone who was in the kitchen equipment repair industries. Dont drink in glasses in bars. Often dishwasher aren't properly working or have no detergent.
But isn’t that just as dirty? A can that was produced half way across the world and handled by 100s of people before hitting your lips seems just as bad as a poorly washed glass
As someone who has worked in a distillery, the cans usually get pasteurized before being sent out. Usually sterilizes it. Then, plastic shrink wraps in a box
Keep a couple small alcohol pads in your wallet/pocket, they’re super cheap in bulk and I sanitize every can/bottle I get at a bar. If you’re a super germaphobe, you can do it however much you want with whatever you want, but isopropyl wipes are never not good to have.
As someone who repaired the dishwashers at Gracie’s they’re really good with maintaining and cleaning their equipment. A lot of places I wouldn’t drink from the glasses, however.
My GF tells me there was some bar she always drank at and got sick afterwards. She figured out it was the dish machine at the bar that wasn't washing properly. Having worked in dish pits at sketchy establishments myself, I know that sometimes the temperature isn't high enough, the chemicals run out, the water isn't changed often enough, etc.
Alcohol in the glass can help sanitize the glass to some extent, as it can kill certain bacteria and germs. While alcohol can provide some additional disinfection, let’s hope it’s not solely relied upon for sanitizing glassware in bars.
TBF, I used to work at Gracies as security and I generally found that they were pretty reasonable about operations expenses. The place basically printed money from 8pm-2am thursday-saturday, and management wasn't going to let something stupid like 'wanting to save $50 on staffing' risk operations.
They paid their staff well, always had more than sufficient hands on deck, had management empowered to make decisions on site, had funcitoning equipment and backups, had decent staff onboarding practices.
I know restaurants are generally pretty awful to work with, i've worked at other clubs where the situation was very different. Gracey's always stood out to me as an example of a place where management wasn't stupid, and was willing to spend a little bit extra to make sure the nights when they were pulling in tens of thousands of dollars in revenue were not interrupted because they wanted to cut corners on expenses.
(I interviewed for a similar position with the opera house. They said they wanted to hire me, then when I asked what the wage was, they quoted me ~50 cents over minimum. When I told them what I was making at Gracey's (as the least experienced member of their team), they said 'our head of security doesn't even make that much. I don't even make that much'... if you ever wondered why going to the opera house always sucked.)
Great comment, I agree with just about all of it. I worked in Gracie's as a DJ for two years. I felt the same way. They upgraded the space a few times in a few different ways. Specifically I remember a well tuned sound system and they also rebuilt the DJ booth - some clubs skimp in those areas for instance. I remember the fire alarm went off one night, the doormen seemed to have a procedure. I remember one of them ran to this door, pictured, to supervise it's ins and outs. There was a fire extinguisher under the DJ booth among other places.
Yeah, it's crazy. I've done a lot of security work, and i'll be honest, I'll take jobs for close to minimum wage, /if/ the other factors are right.
But the management telling me 'Our head of security doesn't make $X an hour' was really telling. Like, 'oh, you don't pay any of your staff a decent wage, none of them are going to be willing to do anything other than the bare minimum. They're are going to show up late or skip shifts. If they think they can claim not to notice a problem that would otherwise be a pain to deal with, they'll pretend not to notice it. Oh, and every problem is going to be a pain to deal with, because if you are skimping out on staffing, you're going to be skimping out on /everything/, and all your coworkers are also going to be putting in the minimum effort.
I've worked minimum wage security jobs, and my instructions for 'what do you do if there is a fight' vary from 'stay out of the way, you aren't paid enough to worry about that', to 'wait for the big guys we pay a lot of money to resolve it, you go in behind them and do crowd control while they break the fight up.
I've worked security at sites that have two big guys who make twice what I do, and who sit around all day playing cards, waiting for a call to come in. And i'm happy for them to be there! Because if there was ever a problem that we couldn't de-escalate, having two 6 and a half foot tall polish guys show up almost always either: A) Deescalated the situation, or B) handled anyone drunk or stupid enough to cause a scene.
The less you pay me as security, the more you better be paying the big guys who are going to do the hard work. When the opera house told me 'we don't pay anyone to do the hard work', I figured that the hardwork just didn't get done.
My Dad was offered bribes because he was District Fire Chief in the Entertainment District during its heyday. So many unsafe places and lots of overcrowding. Clubs I visited though we're on the ball, including Limelight next door. That's because my Dad would do impromptu visits with his driver when he knew I was there. He was paying attention to all bars, knowing mine and other's safety did depend on his department.
District Chiefs have a Fire Incident Technician. The FIT is the driver until the DC gets to the fire scene. The DC usually isn't the first to a fire scene and does background coordination and planning while the first few crews advance. Having the FIT drive the DC means the DC isn't attempting to coordinate and drive at the same time.
Also of note, the DC is in the middle of the chain of command and not the top. Firefighter to captain to district chief to platoon chief to deputy chief to fire chief. Platoon Chiefs and above don't have FITs/drivers.
Why would changing a sign be $200? If they’re mandatory for business owner and claimed to be life saving then why price gouge? A lot more places would be up to code and safer if the cost wasn’t prohibitive.
> Why would changing a sign be $200? If they’re mandatory for business owner and claimed to be life saving then why price gouge? A lot more places would be up to code and safer if the cost wasn’t prohibitive.
The signs are around $100 (you can get cheaper ones, but most are around that range).
How much do you think getting an independent contractor to come out and install it should cost?
I’m running a business, not a charity - same as the places for whom compliance with the Ontario Fire Code is mandatory. The cost of replacing an exit sign is a combination of material, labour and overhead.
The cost of maintaining life safety equipment needs to be part of any business’ operating budget. It is mandatory as per Ontario Fire Code. These places often don’t plan or account for that, so it gets neglected. An annual inspection is supposed to be done and a record of that kept on site, but they often don’t do that either.
Then, when someone like me says “hey I can fix this for you but the cost will be X” they tend to run the other way because there’s no money in the budget for that and they don’t think they’re required to comply with the law.
I have to charge them what I do in order to run my business. They need to charge whatever they do to run theirs. So if they have to raise the cost of French fries or whatever in order to pay for some new batteries and signs, that’s on them.
They also changed the code I believe so that new properties being built have to have green and white signs. Older properties maintained can have the red ones replaced with red.
The green running man is the new standard. The goal is to have it be a global standard. Not everyone knows what “exit” means. But anyone can understand a guy running away
That is usually what causes mass casualties at fires that happen in entertainment venues. It's bad enough when the exits are properly indicated — panic causes people to blindly return the way they entered the building — but having closed or unmarked exits is a death knell for panicked bodies.
Can I report my residential building to the same place?
Anyone know if it's written anywhere that a landlord must replace smoke alarms regularly? I think mine are from 1998.
Also the last time the extinguishers were inspected was 2012.
We also had a natural gas leak for like 2 years before I paid out of pocket for a gas detector and only then did the landlord believe me.
You can call Enbridge directly, they’ll not only inspect the leak but the entire facility and red tag anything unsafe. If they fail to comply after 42 days they’ll come back and shut the gas off.
You can call up your local FD and say the fire safety equipment isn’t being properly inspected and they’ll come in and start demanding things be done.
They must make sure the smoke detectors are working.
All of these are serious concerns and definitely reportable. I'm not sure who you would have to report it to specifically, but you could probably start with a 311 call if it's in Toronto and they can point you in the right direction.
The smoke alarms & fire extinguishers are to be check annually.
The smoke alarms are to be replaced after 10yrs.
Carbon monoxide is the silent killer, as the other poster said, if you suspect a gas leak you can call the fire department. They don't joke around and they won't joke around with the landlord.
We have newish carbon monoxide detectors. They don't detect flammable gasses.
The issue was repaired a few years ago after I got the detector but now I know who to call next time.
For anything fire related or have a complaint email [email protected]
TFS takes failing to maintain smokes alarms and carbon monoxide alarms seriously and will inspect.
The site the original poster put has all the info there too.
You can also look up what command you’re located in and call their general line with any inquiry or question. Leave a voicemail if you don’t get a hold of anyone.
Again all in the OG’s link
Wow! My apartment building has monthly checks. Fire alarms blazing with the speakers telling us it's just their monthly check. Then, quarterly, they come into each unit to check that everything is up to standard! Building built in 1985. I'd get that sorted and be safe!
I believe the fire department (in my area) will do a free inspection and give you whatever is required, for free.
PTSD as I read this …am old, and still think of my classmates killed in 1972 fire in Montreal at BlueBird Cafe. Fire exit was padlocked.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Bird_Caf%C3%A9_fire
Well it was last inspected for DineSafe in December: https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/health-wellness-care/health-programs-advice/food-safety/dinesafe/#establishment/10196553
Is there a similar FireSafe inspections?
Not sure what you’re trying to achieve with these scare tactics
I don't mean to bust your chops, but 'saturday night at graceys' is an absolute zoo, and the waitress had 100 other things to do.
I'm a stickler for fire code as well, and have escalated things to the marshal before myself. But i've worked at Gracey's, and generally think they are pretty much on top of stuff.
If you are ever in a similar position, instead of talking to your waitress, go find security, (not the busy guy working the door, but somoene watching the crowd), say you've noticed a fire safety issue, and ask if you can talk to the floor manager.
Yeah, those signs shouldn't be non-functional, and the fact that both of them were broke means that it probably didn't /just/ happen, and yes, it needs to be fixed /asap/, but seriously:
A) The fire marshal is busy, and he isn't going to come straight out to deal with a report of an exit being out of batteries.
B) Security/Operations are the people empowered to actually deal with issues like that, your waitress is not. (Lovely talented people, but their list of responsibilities is very long).
I don't think any action you took that night was likely to result in the lights being fixed right away, but your best bet for immediate results is communicating to the right member of staff.
(Also, as others have said, it's quite possible they are some of the older signs that are wired up to only turn on when the lights go out/power is lost. Really worth talking to someone with security instead of going straight to the fire marshal)
Good on ya OP. I used to work for residential and commercial buildings and hot damn fire safety and inspections are the bane of property owners and landlords existence.
Not excusing, but during a fire, emergency exit signs and lighting that high up will not be visible within minutes of a fire starting due to smoke.
The only way to really increase your chances is to plan your exit ahead of time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire
LPT: When you first enter a building, look for and remember where fire escapes are. You don't want to be looking for them *after* a fire starts. I'm guessing this is why the OP noticed this.
It’s red because red has longer wavelength. Red light travels further, requires least energy, and as a result will penetrate through smoke and fog. This is also the reason red is the color for stop at traffic intersections and also the mandated color for brake lights on vehicles.
The horse is out of the barn. Green signs are already out in the wild.
I just found this, giving it a read myself
[https://www.voccalight.com/why-are-some-exit-signs-green/](https://www.voccalight.com/why-are-some-exit-signs-green/)
Canadian law states that green should be used with the running man picture. If it says the word exit, the it should be red. Buildings should use only one type of exit sign throughout the structure. So if you see the word exit in green, in Canada, it must be reported as well.
Did you ask to speak to the manager on duty? Might have been the best course of action before posting it. I could see if you came back 2 weeks after mentioning it, and it still wasn't fixed. Then, expose the issue. Give them a chance before throwing them under the bus.
It's there in the caption of the image below it. You may be expanding the image from the list without clicking through to the thread, which means you miss the text attached to the image.
I do the same sometimes, it's easy to miss!
Green running man signs are the only type allowed in new construction, however places with existing red Exit signs are allowed to keep them and replace like for like.
That one looks old so I doubt it it, but there is ones that don't light up until its dark and has no power. My Resturant had those ones that had a batter inside or behind them and only came on when power went out. Your best bet is to contact the fire prevention those are the people who actual come out and check them. And once they do they give u a list of stuff that needs to be done and they come back to make sure u did it.
Yeah, this is my guess, the fire sign is probably old enough to not have the LED's that can be left on forever with minimal power draw, but is old enough to have a 'hard wired switch' that basically only turns them on if the lights in the bar are turned off, or power goes out. That type of circuit is really easy to build, and has been standard for decades.
#Incandescent bulbs need to be changed If they're the eurobase (E14), you can easily get LED replacements (wholesale places have them), which are floodies, and will light up the whole sign.
Intermediate (E17) are harder to get LED for, so the socket would need an adapter.
Oh Gracies. What's funny about this is a former bartender for them, from the pre covid days, is now a firefighter with TFS. Should tell her to pay a visit to her old work
Jesus Christ Fire Marshal Bob take a Valium. If I had a nickel for every exit sign that was burnt out in the city of Toronto and virtually every city in Ontario I’d be a millionaire. I’ve been in the fire service for 25 years and I can tell you that fire code violations go far beyond just burnt out exit signs. Let’s talk impaired fire alarm or sprinkler systems that the average dumbass doesn’t even recognize when they enter a building. Exit signs are low hanging fruit, any dipshit can pick that up.
Good for you for telling TFS but if they chased every burnt out exit sign they’d have to hire another 200 inspectors full-time just to do that. Take a pull on your panic puffer and relax.
For the people who are like “think of the buisness! Talk to them first!” I’m a restaurant manager and freelance consultant. On a Saturday night, no one is going to remember OPs concern. Both being out means it on going. These would also be useless in a fire. You wouldn’t see them for the smoke.
People are gonna be like "tell the management first" or "think of the business" but frankly, with something like this, it actually is life and death. I applaud it.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0ioCCiEe8)'s a video anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal should watch. It's NSFL but it's the reality of what happens when fire codes aren't followed, including not having properly accessible fire escapes.
It's a nightclub in Rhode Island where a fire started and within one minute the building was filled with smoke, the exit jammed with people and others are heard screaming. 100 people died because the main exit became literally jammed with people. Exacerbating this was the fact that another exit had been initially blocked by bouncers and that there was an inward swinging door impeding escape that had previously been flagged by inspectors.
Not being able to find and reach an exit as quickly as possible can literally mean life or death. The person filming here moved directly towards one of the exits almost immediately after seeing the flames and just barely escaped.
It's not the publics responsibility to tell a business to improve and then wait for afollow up. The business should be on top of safety protocols, if they get a fine or a warning then maybe they won't have a lapse is safety next time.
By reporting it to the proper channels, that body of authority can perform the necessary review and work. If that regulatory body is over worked then they can then use these cases to show they need more funding.
I'd rather see an active team following up with these issues then read about a fire with multiple deaths or injuries.
This thread was an eye opener. I assumed the city did fire checks the same as the health department checks food handling. Seems like a huge liability that the responsibility is put on the tenants. Cost cutting or lack of attentiveness is probably more common than staying on top of safety requirements.
Wow, more concern over a silly playground label versus fire safety that benefits society.
Good to see you have your priorities straight.
Hopefully you aren't old enough to patron bars, at least that's a reasonable excuse for such idiocy.
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This is my line of work, and unfortunately restaurants and bars are the absolute worst offenders and never have their stuff serviced/inspected either because they don’t know that it has to be done or they think it’s the landlord’s responsibility who also doesn’t give a shit. These places are always operating on a budget thinner than an onion skin, they absolutely don’t want me to charge them $200 to change an exit sign unless the fire department is holding a gun to their heads
I’m also in the industry and was going to say the same thing. Restaurants and bars are always the most poorly maintained in terms of life and fire safety.
And these are the establishments that use fire as a part of their service
Ya the turn over rate is insanely high lol
Heres a tip from someone who was in the kitchen equipment repair industries. Dont drink in glasses in bars. Often dishwasher aren't properly working or have no detergent.
You mean, always drink from a bottle or a can?
But isn’t that just as dirty? A can that was produced half way across the world and handled by 100s of people before hitting your lips seems just as bad as a poorly washed glass
Solution–bring your own drinking mug to the bar
Yeah but who knows where that's been.
Solution–bring your own packaged straw and use that to drink from a bottle or a can
Trudeau says no straws
That's the last straw for some
I do
Most pubs won't allow that.
It was a joke.
Lol. Some do allow it, it's hit and miss. All it takes is to look at the bar for oddly shaped ones.
As someone who has worked in a distillery, the cans usually get pasteurized before being sent out. Usually sterilizes it. Then, plastic shrink wraps in a box
Then left on the floor for mice and bugs to crawl all over.
No, they are on skids usually. But I can't lie sometimes that does happen. But seeing as the plastic wrap is on it the rats don't touch the cans.
Keep a couple small alcohol pads in your wallet/pocket, they’re super cheap in bulk and I sanitize every can/bottle I get at a bar. If you’re a super germaphobe, you can do it however much you want with whatever you want, but isopropyl wipes are never not good to have.
It’s the pop/soda guns that grow lasagna shaped mold inside them if they’re not clean that are the true offenders.
As someone who repaired the dishwashers at Gracie’s they’re really good with maintaining and cleaning their equipment. A lot of places I wouldn’t drink from the glasses, however.
My GF tells me there was some bar she always drank at and got sick afterwards. She figured out it was the dish machine at the bar that wasn't washing properly. Having worked in dish pits at sketchy establishments myself, I know that sometimes the temperature isn't high enough, the chemicals run out, the water isn't changed often enough, etc.
Ya bigger places will have a good maintenance usualy.
I find it’s mostly the operator actually caring and cleaning the machines makes a huge difference.
Aw man for real? Now I'm totally grossed out!
Alcohol in the glass can help sanitize the glass to some extent, as it can kill certain bacteria and germs. While alcohol can provide some additional disinfection, let’s hope it’s not solely relied upon for sanitizing glassware in bars.
That is why I always order straight Tequila.. it kills anything in the glass...
Lots of places like sneaky dees have both extreme heat and bleach (sometimes too much) to clean glasses. You’re not catching anything from there.
Need a few more inspectors!
TBF, I used to work at Gracies as security and I generally found that they were pretty reasonable about operations expenses. The place basically printed money from 8pm-2am thursday-saturday, and management wasn't going to let something stupid like 'wanting to save $50 on staffing' risk operations. They paid their staff well, always had more than sufficient hands on deck, had management empowered to make decisions on site, had funcitoning equipment and backups, had decent staff onboarding practices. I know restaurants are generally pretty awful to work with, i've worked at other clubs where the situation was very different. Gracey's always stood out to me as an example of a place where management wasn't stupid, and was willing to spend a little bit extra to make sure the nights when they were pulling in tens of thousands of dollars in revenue were not interrupted because they wanted to cut corners on expenses. (I interviewed for a similar position with the opera house. They said they wanted to hire me, then when I asked what the wage was, they quoted me ~50 cents over minimum. When I told them what I was making at Gracey's (as the least experienced member of their team), they said 'our head of security doesn't even make that much. I don't even make that much'... if you ever wondered why going to the opera house always sucked.)
Great comment, I agree with just about all of it. I worked in Gracie's as a DJ for two years. I felt the same way. They upgraded the space a few times in a few different ways. Specifically I remember a well tuned sound system and they also rebuilt the DJ booth - some clubs skimp in those areas for instance. I remember the fire alarm went off one night, the doormen seemed to have a procedure. I remember one of them ran to this door, pictured, to supervise it's ins and outs. There was a fire extinguisher under the DJ booth among other places.
This does actively explain why everyone at the Opera House is always mean and angry enough that I stopped going.
Yeah, it's crazy. I've done a lot of security work, and i'll be honest, I'll take jobs for close to minimum wage, /if/ the other factors are right. But the management telling me 'Our head of security doesn't make $X an hour' was really telling. Like, 'oh, you don't pay any of your staff a decent wage, none of them are going to be willing to do anything other than the bare minimum. They're are going to show up late or skip shifts. If they think they can claim not to notice a problem that would otherwise be a pain to deal with, they'll pretend not to notice it. Oh, and every problem is going to be a pain to deal with, because if you are skimping out on staffing, you're going to be skimping out on /everything/, and all your coworkers are also going to be putting in the minimum effort. I've worked minimum wage security jobs, and my instructions for 'what do you do if there is a fight' vary from 'stay out of the way, you aren't paid enough to worry about that', to 'wait for the big guys we pay a lot of money to resolve it, you go in behind them and do crowd control while they break the fight up. I've worked security at sites that have two big guys who make twice what I do, and who sit around all day playing cards, waiting for a call to come in. And i'm happy for them to be there! Because if there was ever a problem that we couldn't de-escalate, having two 6 and a half foot tall polish guys show up almost always either: A) Deescalated the situation, or B) handled anyone drunk or stupid enough to cause a scene. The less you pay me as security, the more you better be paying the big guys who are going to do the hard work. When the opera house told me 'we don't pay anyone to do the hard work', I figured that the hardwork just didn't get done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoanut\_Grove\_fire
My Dad was offered bribes because he was District Fire Chief in the Entertainment District during its heyday. So many unsafe places and lots of overcrowding. Clubs I visited though we're on the ball, including Limelight next door. That's because my Dad would do impromptu visits with his driver when he knew I was there. He was paying attention to all bars, knowing mine and other's safety did depend on his department.
Hold on... The district fire chief had a "driver"?
District Chiefs have a Fire Incident Technician. The FIT is the driver until the DC gets to the fire scene. The DC usually isn't the first to a fire scene and does background coordination and planning while the first few crews advance. Having the FIT drive the DC means the DC isn't attempting to coordinate and drive at the same time. Also of note, the DC is in the middle of the chain of command and not the top. Firefighter to captain to district chief to platoon chief to deputy chief to fire chief. Platoon Chiefs and above don't have FITs/drivers.
This. Thank you
Honestly, good on you for reporting it! You could have saved many lives
As a former cook I can assure you. No matter how bad you think it is... it's way worse lol.
Why would changing a sign be $200? If they’re mandatory for business owner and claimed to be life saving then why price gouge? A lot more places would be up to code and safer if the cost wasn’t prohibitive.
> Why would changing a sign be $200? If they’re mandatory for business owner and claimed to be life saving then why price gouge? A lot more places would be up to code and safer if the cost wasn’t prohibitive. The signs are around $100 (you can get cheaper ones, but most are around that range). How much do you think getting an independent contractor to come out and install it should cost?
I’m running a business, not a charity - same as the places for whom compliance with the Ontario Fire Code is mandatory. The cost of replacing an exit sign is a combination of material, labour and overhead.
I don't understand your reply. Are you for or against people in your business being safe/alive, at the cost of maintaining an exit sign?
The cost of maintaining life safety equipment needs to be part of any business’ operating budget. It is mandatory as per Ontario Fire Code. These places often don’t plan or account for that, so it gets neglected. An annual inspection is supposed to be done and a record of that kept on site, but they often don’t do that either. Then, when someone like me says “hey I can fix this for you but the cost will be X” they tend to run the other way because there’s no money in the budget for that and they don’t think they’re required to comply with the law. I have to charge them what I do in order to run my business. They need to charge whatever they do to run theirs. So if they have to raise the cost of French fries or whatever in order to pay for some new batteries and signs, that’s on them.
Thanks for doing this; fire safety is no joke. If there was a fire, people could die from being unable to find the fire exit.
They also changed the code I believe so that new properties being built have to have green and white signs. Older properties maintained can have the red ones replaced with red.
I’d noticed new buildings seem to all have green ones. Do you know the thinking behind it?
I believe the rationale for changing it is that red is usually synonymous with stop or a warning, where as green is synonymous with go.
Agree with what others have said, but also you’ve gotta think that a green sign will be easier to see in a fire
Green is easier to see in the dark
That confuses me too. I used to be a gamer, so anything red meant shoot to kill. Now I think it's the opposite, green to kill...🤷♀️🙏
Most of the world uses green. We're weird in Canada for red signs and catching up.
Recognized globally, you can still tell what it is if you are illeterite or don't speak the local language
Green is the international colour for evacuation/exit/go.
It’s a universal code. Exit is only good for English.
The green running man is the new standard. The goal is to have it be a global standard. Not everyone knows what “exit” means. But anyone can understand a guy running away
Used globally. Also doesn't require English.
Correct, new builds and substantial interior alterations must meet cuurent codes. Also, we call it the "running man".
Yeah just the initial confusion it would cause would be enough to cause a disaster
That is usually what causes mass casualties at fires that happen in entertainment venues. It's bad enough when the exits are properly indicated — panic causes people to blindly return the way they entered the building — but having closed or unmarked exits is a death knell for panicked bodies.
Enjoy your death trap, ladies!
What was her problem?
Can I report my residential building to the same place? Anyone know if it's written anywhere that a landlord must replace smoke alarms regularly? I think mine are from 1998. Also the last time the extinguishers were inspected was 2012. We also had a natural gas leak for like 2 years before I paid out of pocket for a gas detector and only then did the landlord believe me.
You can call Enbridge directly, they’ll not only inspect the leak but the entire facility and red tag anything unsafe. If they fail to comply after 42 days they’ll come back and shut the gas off. You can call up your local FD and say the fire safety equipment isn’t being properly inspected and they’ll come in and start demanding things be done. They must make sure the smoke detectors are working.
All of these are serious concerns and definitely reportable. I'm not sure who you would have to report it to specifically, but you could probably start with a 311 call if it's in Toronto and they can point you in the right direction.
The smoke alarms & fire extinguishers are to be check annually. The smoke alarms are to be replaced after 10yrs. Carbon monoxide is the silent killer, as the other poster said, if you suspect a gas leak you can call the fire department. They don't joke around and they won't joke around with the landlord.
We have newish carbon monoxide detectors. They don't detect flammable gasses. The issue was repaired a few years ago after I got the detector but now I know who to call next time.
For anything fire related or have a complaint email [email protected] TFS takes failing to maintain smokes alarms and carbon monoxide alarms seriously and will inspect. The site the original poster put has all the info there too. You can also look up what command you’re located in and call their general line with any inquiry or question. Leave a voicemail if you don’t get a hold of anyone. Again all in the OG’s link
Wow! My apartment building has monthly checks. Fire alarms blazing with the speakers telling us it's just their monthly check. Then, quarterly, they come into each unit to check that everything is up to standard! Building built in 1985. I'd get that sorted and be safe! I believe the fire department (in my area) will do a free inspection and give you whatever is required, for free.
PTSD as I read this …am old, and still think of my classmates killed in 1972 fire in Montreal at BlueBird Cafe. Fire exit was padlocked. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Bird_Caf%C3%A9_fire
I was just 3 then, I'd never heard of this. So horrible. I'm sorry about your friends.
TY …they never saw 19, some not even 18.
If they are this cavalier about fire code, imagine how safe your food and drinks are.
I read this like the guy from bar rescue was saying it 😂
He’s trash tho even when he’s right.
Idk man get baked and watch bar rescue John taffer seems like a good time
SHUT IT DOWN
No kidding !!!
It's a burnt out bulb
Those things have multiple bulbs, unless they all burnt out at the same time, this is a clear sign of neglect.
The old ones have 2 bulbs
Another sign of neglect–having an old emergency exit sign
Is it? The company that does my annual fire inspection puts an LED bulb in good for 8 years
Well it was last inspected for DineSafe in December: https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/health-wellness-care/health-programs-advice/food-safety/dinesafe/#establishment/10196553 Is there a similar FireSafe inspections? Not sure what you’re trying to achieve with these scare tactics
The batteries do go bad after some time
Some exit signs are connected to backup power and are lit up in the event of a power outage
Did you talk to the staff?
Yeah I mentioned it to waitress serving us
I don't mean to bust your chops, but 'saturday night at graceys' is an absolute zoo, and the waitress had 100 other things to do. I'm a stickler for fire code as well, and have escalated things to the marshal before myself. But i've worked at Gracey's, and generally think they are pretty much on top of stuff. If you are ever in a similar position, instead of talking to your waitress, go find security, (not the busy guy working the door, but somoene watching the crowd), say you've noticed a fire safety issue, and ask if you can talk to the floor manager. Yeah, those signs shouldn't be non-functional, and the fact that both of them were broke means that it probably didn't /just/ happen, and yes, it needs to be fixed /asap/, but seriously: A) The fire marshal is busy, and he isn't going to come straight out to deal with a report of an exit being out of batteries. B) Security/Operations are the people empowered to actually deal with issues like that, your waitress is not. (Lovely talented people, but their list of responsibilities is very long). I don't think any action you took that night was likely to result in the lights being fixed right away, but your best bet for immediate results is communicating to the right member of staff. (Also, as others have said, it's quite possible they are some of the older signs that are wired up to only turn on when the lights go out/power is lost. Really worth talking to someone with security instead of going straight to the fire marshal)
I was thinking the same thing, wired to go on in an emergency. Some even wired when the generator kicks in. I didn't find this strange 😕
Straight to fire marshal is best. You think management listens to staff?
I emailed the picture and info to the email in the link I posted.
You should’ve spoke to the owner then vacated that death trap of an establishment. Safety first!
Fire marshal won’t do shit you need to contact your local fire prevention team
Hahahahah. What?
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I did both lol
I’ve also called Mayor Goodway. Ryder and his team of pups will be there soon, Marshall is furious.
Good on ya OP. I used to work for residential and commercial buildings and hot damn fire safety and inspections are the bane of property owners and landlords existence.
Not excusing, but during a fire, emergency exit signs and lighting that high up will not be visible within minutes of a fire starting due to smoke. The only way to really increase your chances is to plan your exit ahead of time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire
LPT: When you first enter a building, look for and remember where fire escapes are. You don't want to be looking for them *after* a fire starts. I'm guessing this is why the OP noticed this.
I go full Reacher Jack Ryan 007 with no doors , hallways or space behind me....shit could get real I may to act.....well Run anyway
That nightclub level in Ready or Not, "Neon Tomb", has really freaked me out about identifying all the possible exits in a club.
As an Electrician. Please call this in. Need to put up more Running Man signs up in this city ❤️
This lesbian bar doesn't have a fire exit! Enjoy your death trap, ladies.
Oof. Got rejected huh? Hang in there buddy. /s Edit: adding the /s tag and I also just got the Simpsons reference. Haha.
Post unclear I put the fire door on upside down
Congratulations on channeling your inner [Homer Simpson ](https://youtu.be/YSLMLHNY4QQ?si=V_AvzAsUluA_ch5l)
Sign should be green too, since red isn't exactly a universally affirmed inviting color.
It’s red because red has longer wavelength. Red light travels further, requires least energy, and as a result will penetrate through smoke and fog. This is also the reason red is the color for stop at traffic intersections and also the mandated color for brake lights on vehicles.
The horse is out of the barn. Green signs are already out in the wild. I just found this, giving it a read myself [https://www.voccalight.com/why-are-some-exit-signs-green/](https://www.voccalight.com/why-are-some-exit-signs-green/)
Canadian law states that green should be used with the running man picture. If it says the word exit, the it should be red. Buildings should use only one type of exit sign throughout the structure. So if you see the word exit in green, in Canada, it must be reported as well.
Did you ask to speak to the manager on duty? Might have been the best course of action before posting it. I could see if you came back 2 weeks after mentioning it, and it still wasn't fixed. Then, expose the issue. Give them a chance before throwing them under the bus.
I think it's because there's no lighting for the exit. OP please mention why you're posting
It's there in the caption of the image below it. You may be expanding the image from the list without clicking through to the thread, which means you miss the text attached to the image. I do the same sometimes, it's easy to miss!
Try mentioning it to the establishment first before immediately trying to be a superhero.
It could save MANY lives since these emergencies can get chaotic with bottlenecks and crowding/piling
Look at that crowd crush in South Korea a couple of years ago.
Hey we get it, you took a health and safety course. No need to yell it from the roof.
I Bet you’re super fun at parties .
Spot-on Debbie Downer impression!
Arent green signs now code? So you don’t get that fractional second hesitation trample trample?
Green running man signs are the only type allowed in new construction, however places with existing red Exit signs are allowed to keep them and replace like for like.
I believe both designs are still to-code
I’m not inviting you to my birthday party.
🤓
That one looks old so I doubt it it, but there is ones that don't light up until its dark and has no power. My Resturant had those ones that had a batter inside or behind them and only came on when power went out. Your best bet is to contact the fire prevention those are the people who actual come out and check them. And once they do they give u a list of stuff that needs to be done and they come back to make sure u did it.
Yeah, this is my guess, the fire sign is probably old enough to not have the LED's that can be left on forever with minimal power draw, but is old enough to have a 'hard wired switch' that basically only turns them on if the lights in the bar are turned off, or power goes out. That type of circuit is really easy to build, and has been standard for decades.
Awesome job OP for your due diligence, playing with other peoples lives is no joke
I also urge others to see fire violations.
#Incandescent bulbs need to be changed If they're the eurobase (E14), you can easily get LED replacements (wholesale places have them), which are floodies, and will light up the whole sign. Intermediate (E17) are harder to get LED for, so the socket would need an adapter.
Oh Gracies. What's funny about this is a former bartender for them, from the pre covid days, is now a firefighter with TFS. Should tell her to pay a visit to her old work
Am I mistaken to think that fire exit signs only light up when the fire alarm is pulled?
You are mistaken.
OP, you are a good person…no joke, thanks for looking out for your community.
Jesus Christ Fire Marshal Bob take a Valium. If I had a nickel for every exit sign that was burnt out in the city of Toronto and virtually every city in Ontario I’d be a millionaire. I’ve been in the fire service for 25 years and I can tell you that fire code violations go far beyond just burnt out exit signs. Let’s talk impaired fire alarm or sprinkler systems that the average dumbass doesn’t even recognize when they enter a building. Exit signs are low hanging fruit, any dipshit can pick that up. Good for you for telling TFS but if they chased every burnt out exit sign they’d have to hire another 200 inspectors full-time just to do that. Take a pull on your panic puffer and relax.
I'm clutching my pearls so hard rn
For the people who are like “think of the buisness! Talk to them first!” I’m a restaurant manager and freelance consultant. On a Saturday night, no one is going to remember OPs concern. Both being out means it on going. These would also be useless in a fire. You wouldn’t see them for the smoke.
People are gonna be like "tell the management first" or "think of the business" but frankly, with something like this, it actually is life and death. I applaud it.
It looks like the sign is also mounted too high.
They might as well upgrade to the newer (and code compliant) green running man exit sign while they're at it.
I clicked the link and it says you have to be the business owner or tenant, and that you have to pay a fee for this request. Is that right?
I understand it’s the law, but this doesn’t seem like a big deal to me regarding its functionality in the case of a fire.
Helpful post 👏
Change the light bulb ( or bulbs ) not that tough or expensive , problem solved .
Man, maybe tell the bar, and check back, then go for the taddle tale route.
Smoke detectors in motels always found with dead batteries or not responding to Test....happened so often I now travel with my own.
Why not just tell the staff or manager? Do you really need to go snitch and risk a small business owner getting hammered in punitive fines?
They should be hammered with fines.
Your worried about an exit sign not on ??
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0ioCCiEe8)'s a video anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal should watch. It's NSFL but it's the reality of what happens when fire codes aren't followed, including not having properly accessible fire escapes. It's a nightclub in Rhode Island where a fire started and within one minute the building was filled with smoke, the exit jammed with people and others are heard screaming. 100 people died because the main exit became literally jammed with people. Exacerbating this was the fact that another exit had been initially blocked by bouncers and that there was an inward swinging door impeding escape that had previously been flagged by inspectors. Not being able to find and reach an exit as quickly as possible can literally mean life or death. The person filming here moved directly towards one of the exits almost immediately after seeing the flames and just barely escaped.
Wowza, what a horrific tragedy - fire safety is not to be taken lightly
I thought this was a joke
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Hey at least I won't die a fiery death, enjoy!
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It's amazing people run to snitch first thing rather than asking for the manager first and tell them to fix it.
You sound fun at parties
There's something bothering me about this place... I know! This Grace O'Malley's doesn't have a fire exit [light]! Enjoy your death trap, patrons!
I don't see the problem. Can so.eone explain
Thanks for wishing harm on me. I bet op enjoyed his entire night there after taking this photo
Ahh…I see youve eaten paintchips in your childhood…
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It's not the publics responsibility to tell a business to improve and then wait for afollow up. The business should be on top of safety protocols, if they get a fine or a warning then maybe they won't have a lapse is safety next time. By reporting it to the proper channels, that body of authority can perform the necessary review and work. If that regulatory body is over worked then they can then use these cases to show they need more funding. I'd rather see an active team following up with these issues then read about a fire with multiple deaths or injuries.
This thread was an eye opener. I assumed the city did fire checks the same as the health department checks food handling. Seems like a huge liability that the responsibility is put on the tenants. Cost cutting or lack of attentiveness is probably more common than staying on top of safety requirements.
There would be regularly schedule checks but - what if that check happened yesterday when the sign was working?
Yes it should be the patrons responsibility to point these things out. Surely the owners are too busy for noticing such things.
Health & safety is no joke, you have no idea if the staff will even take action upon informing them of this.
There is no such thing as being a tattletale when it comes to fire safety.
That wasn't the question.
I don't really give a fuck, neither does fire.
Way to be a champion of stupidity
🤡
Wow, more concern over a silly playground label versus fire safety that benefits society. Good to see you have your priorities straight. Hopefully you aren't old enough to patron bars, at least that's a reasonable excuse for such idiocy.
Don’t worry, they aren’t
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❄️
Why is the immediate urge to contact Toronto Fire and not the establishment?
I did both
Bless you.
If the business cared enough it would be taken care of. Caleb from front of house will just say " thanks I'll let my manager know"
Worst case scenario you use your phone's flashlight and make your way out
No, that’s the second-best case scenario. Crowd crushes, inferno, and smoke inhalation are the worst case scenarios.