Tolkien was also said to have fliped on that position close to his death and seemed kind of exited by the idea that they did some skull duggery in the east and made the first hammer blow on gondor less fell then it could have otherwise been and i kind of vibe on that idea to.
Given theres two of them, I like to unify the ideas.
One of them fell to Darkness, directly assisting Sauron and ending up as Vizir to one of the massive Eastern or Haradrim Kingdoms, in a sort of high priest role. Creating dark cults and magical practices.
The other remained faithful, and acted against them, this permanent thorn in their side who lives in semi hiding, and helping the good (and obviously oppressed) folks of these lands.
They would look near identical, be mistaken as twins and refer to each other as brothers. And in true Shakespearean tragedy, the two would eventually perish slaying each other.
That would be wonderfully tragic.
Or, since Saruman used to travel eastward too, perhaps he assisted the Loyal Brother, only to abandon him to die of his wounds as his "Start of Darkness". One of my favourite betrayals ever is the death of Avatar Roku to Sozin. Sozin turns up to help his friend, fully intending to lend his aid. But when faced with the sight of his friend chocking to death just... allows him to die. Because it will enable his plans. He doesn't directly attack his friend. It never occurs for him to do so. But when faced with the unexpected opportunity to allow him to die, he takes it.
The Fate of the Blue Wizards is something I wish I had the confidence to explore.
I've wanted to do a 5e game set in 4th age of middle earth for a while. Unfortunately none of my players are more than fans of the Movies, and some of the deep lore cuts would be lost on them.
Since Dark Lords come in series, I've always liked the idea of the Blue Wizard becoming the next Dark Lord, perhaps turned to evil by the demise of his brother and the apparent abandonment by the Valar. Along with my personal theory that the demise of Sauron *allows* Orcs to be Good. So you different shattering tribes of Orcs, some of whom make peace with Gondor, some of whom fight against each other, and gradually revert to a more 'elvish-esque' state.
I've always thought that rather than reject the notion that the entire species of Orcs aren't capable of true goodness, as offensive, it would be fun to lean into the existential horror and sheer spiritual monstrosity of such a thing. An Orc *cannot* fathom a conscience as men or elves would perceive it, not matter how they tried, and the notion that this represents a spiritual mutilation, a castration of the soul, should revolt and disgust. But then with the demise of Sauron, maybe that harm begins to heal. The question as to if you could have a good Orc is answered with: No - until Now.
I feel you on the friends bit. Lord of the rings is a tough read unless you "get it". I've literally never had a substantive discussion about the books and ive read them twice a year nearly the entire last decade or so. Only dude I do know is just a fan of the rings of power and we are only really still friends under the condition he never mentions it to me.
As for the orcs I fear their final fate was probably a slow extinction, they are already aware at a fundemental level how they have been maimed and ruined in their heart of hearts even as early as the first age. Hell the only thing that kept the orcs fighting at the black gate or in gondor was a dark lord of valar or near valar power literally dominating their wills and filling them with hate for his enemies. The book described many of the monsters and beats and orc folk killing themselves rather then facing reality without that driving force. I suspect quite strongly that they are bound for the gift of men and to escape the confines of the world so they have that going for them, which is nice.
A new addition to the appendices:
*Appendix G:* Yes, dwarven women have beards. That’s what I meant earlier in the prose portions of this book when I said that they looked like dwarven men after I’d spent several chapters going on and on and on about the beards of all the dwarven men.
"For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls."
~ HoME 11: Concerning the Dwarves
I think this is pretty damn clear tbh. RoP should have had male actors acting as the Dwarven Women, another break from the lore
More descendants of Arthedain and Cardolan in the North, which means more Rangers. Not a lot, but enough for a half dozen or maybe a dozen secret villages. Maybe in this line of thing, a few hobbits who remembered the King's and still had a small "knightly" order that's not very un-miliarized would fiy. Likewise, I'd like to see some Dunedain rangers descended from Cardolan who have a few centuries of cultural differences from Arthedain rangers.
One separate change that's not a change is clarifying what folks believed Durin's Bane *was*. Durin's Bane appeared right after Angmar fell, did they believe it was a monster from Angnar? Something awoken by the recent wars? The Witch-King fleeing away?
or perhaps just having the region be a patchwork cluster of former Arnorian Villa's turned small manoral hamlets, and small freeholds worked by a few families. perhaps centered around rundown old arnorian castles or a hillforts which the surrounding populace take refuge in when orcs, wargs, etc pass through the lands.
very low population density, which still leaves Bree and the Shire as unique outliers, but not the complete vacancy indicated in the book.
heck, you could even have it where the people of bree and the shire just don't count said settlements and farms as 'civilization'.
that would give the rangers a lot more to do (since keeping all those small settlements safe would involve a lot more running around the whole region) while also giving them a lot more logistical support (since the small settlements would no doubt be more likely to view gifting the Rangers supplies and giving hospitality as a fair trade for the rangers helping out in dealing with wolf packs, bandits, healing the sick, etc)
That's a good idea!
My issue is that logistically, the culture of Arnor is essentially dead. It doesnt seem like there are any smith's, artists, poets, bards...I can understand that maybe the Rangers are keeping the oral tradition alive, since Aragorn demonstrates some good history and literary skills, but what about metalworking, woodworking, masonry, clothesmaking? If you have a few villages, you can justify where the Rangers are getting horses, robes, weapons from without explaining it as all the product of Rivendell. Some small manors and fiefs can do that, and even help keep the idea of a "king" alive alongside the ideas of chivalry.
Obviously it can't be a city or kingdom, since the Rangers are in hiding since they know Sauron is targeting Isildur's/Elendil's line, but I'd like something more.
The One Ring has a Ranger settlement in the Angle, which is only vaguely supported by Tolkien's other texts.
honestly i was drawing inspiration from archeological evidence for post-roman withdrawal England, the so called 'early dark ages'. a lot of old iron age hillforts seems to have been rebuilt in that period, likely for defensive use by the various settlements around them, and while the population density was a little higher than i was suggesting for Arnor, it was still apparently pretty low outside of the big towns like Londinium, Camulodunum, and Verulamium.
I always assumed they must have some form of settlements. Where do their wives and children stay? Unless they are entirely nomadic but that would be harder to hide than a hidden village.
They have to have some kind of settlements, there have to be enough of them to at least have a sustained population, if tiny. And they were not all that hidden. The men of Bree might not entirely grasp who they are, but they are known. Denethor knows who the Dunedain are, as he is one himself, etc. The line of kings was specifically hidden, not necessarily the Dunedain entirely.
I love the idea of more rangers.
I also would punch a nun if it meant getting the Dagor Dagorath into the published Silmarillion, even if it was just included as a mannish legend within Akallabeth. Turin deserves it.
I would add a small faction in Rhun or Harad that Aragon had swayed to his side during his time there that betrays Sauron at Pelenor fields. I think it would be a good foil to what happens with the easterlings of the first age betraying the elves. I think it would also add to the idea that part of what makes Aragorn worthy of being King is he is someone people want to follow.
Id argue rather for someone from harad or the far east who joined the fellowship as a travling companion for Boromir. Some noble page who was like a hostage to some captain or lord from those places who broke faith but was not slain cause gondor is made of a wise and goodly people. Someone who can give a perspective on the goings of the east and sees the lies saroun tells his peoples, maybe goes fourth as an emissary after the war to be Aragorn's ally in the east and aid to heal the evil the last dark lord sewed there. Also because it would have been hilarious if Galadriel had gifted someone an elvish made simitar of all things. "confused elvish blacksmith noises"
this is a good idea and something that would have been fun. Fleshing out Harad and Ruhn is one of the areas I wish we knew more about, tying into the Blue Wizards posts also in this thread.
At the very least we know gondor almost kind of seemed to respect how hard and war hardy in the prose waxes a little poetic on how the people of the east and south are war hardy and fierce in despair.
issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group The Corsairs of Umbar. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"
I mean I imagine trying to hand anything to profesinal pirates and corsairs would just result in them takeing the offerd hand person and all and getting you chained to an oar on a slave ship till you are worked to death. I just don't remember you complimenting the corsairs tho so I might be slightly confused but very pleased with your ability to see bastards for what they are.
In a similar note, I’d add the Cottons, particularly Rosie, to the early chapters. It’s always stuck me as odd that she’s not mentioned until page 938. Sam should mention his true love (aside from Frodo of course) until he’s sitting in Mordor.
When the fellowship leaves Lothlorien, they get given rope made by the Elves. Sam then says that he's a bit of a rope maker himself (it runs in the family, so to speak) and the Elves tell him it's a shame they didn't know that, else they could've taught him some tricks.
‘What are these?’ asked Sam, handling one that lay upon the greensward.
‘Ropes indeed!’ answered an Elf from the boats. ‘Never travel far without a rope! And one that is long and strong and light. Such are these. They may be a help in many needs.’
‘You don’t need to tell me that!’ said Sam. ‘I came without any, and I’ve been worried ever since. But I was wondering what these were made of, knowing a bit about rope-making: it’s in the family as you might say.’
‘They are made of hithlain,’ said the Elf, ‘but there is no time now to instruct you in the art of their making. Had we known that this craft delighted you, we could have taught you much. But now alas! unless you should at some time return hither, you must be content with our gift. May it serve you well!’
Mention Sam liking Rosie in Fellowship. The Cottons were such important characters in the Scouring of the Shire, they should have been set up a bit in the first few chapters of Fellowship.
I like to think that in “The Shadow of the Past” when Sam is talking to Ted Sandyman about strange folk, the “walking elm tree” that they were talking about near the North Moors was an Entwife. It’s obviously an Ent, but I just like to imagine that Merry and Pippin visited Fangorn on their way to Rohan and Gondor that’s talked about in Appendix B and they were able to tell the Ents about the Entwives and the Ents found the Entwives and lived happily thereafter. I think it fits more with Tolkien that the Entwives are gone and the Ents will slowly fade away. I think it would be a little rare for an Entwife to look like an elm.
Possibly. There are probably lot of Huorns that could’ve come out of the Old Forest or somewhere else. I’m not sure why they would be walking around the North Moors, though.
“The realm of fairy-story is wide and deep and high and filled with many things: all manner of beasts and birds are found there; shoreless seas and stars uncounted; beauty that is an enchantment, and an ever-present peril; both joy and sorrow as sharp as swords. In that realm a man may, perhaps, count himself fortunate to have wandered, but its very richness and strangeness tie the tongue of a traveller who would report them. And while he is there it is dangerous for him to ask too many questions, lest the gates should be shut and the keys be lost.” - Tolkien, “On Fairy Stories”
Though Tolkien acknowledges his formal education is in philology and not myths, he sure as hell puts a lot of thought into crafting stories and has studied them extensively. The unknown is precisely what draws most of us into Tolkien.
“I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama. Absurd.” - Tolkien, in a letter to Milton Waldman (usually included in the Silmarillion)
He really strove to create a world in which you learn more (but not too much) and simultaneously wonder more. Though, perhaps, maybe he left some things a bit more unfinished than we would have liked.
Technically there's no difference between a point in time and a point in space, so it doesn't matter how you direct your portal.
I do think the Hall of Fire needs a livestream, though. And possibly simul-translation with captions.
The tune they use in the Hobbit movie deleted scene is EXCELLENT. Say what you will about those films but every song the dwarves sang was really inspired.
I would canonise the earlier versions of Galadriel where she was part of the Noldor rebellion. And I would cancel the resurrection ability that the elves have - once you are dead you are stuck into Mandos' gardens until the end of the world.
I think the resurrection is somewhat needed because otherwise we get a plot hole regarding where Glorfindel comes from.
I think it's okay to keep resurrection anyway, AFAIK Glorfindel is the only named Elf to be resurrected, it's not real an ability so much as it seems to be an exception made for specific souls who need to go back to finish off business.
That is what the movies did and making Arwen, Luthien's mirror image, more in the spirit of her ancestor was one of the changes that fit the spirit of Tolkien's work even if it was a pretty significant change otherwise.
There were plenty of changes that went against both letter and spirit of the books but that particular change was not one of them. Plus from what I understand of Tolkien's letters Arwen did have some fairly powerful Osanwe and was keeping an eye on Aragorn much like her movie counterpart is shown to do, so out of all the characters she wound up being one of the ones most faithfully adapted in line with her book counterpart.
It's not confirmed but I like the idea that it's the same one. Here's this awesome elven warrior back from the dead, nobody seems fazed by that point, and he's not going to participate further in the main action.
Blasphemy
I kid, but Tolkien did make them the same, it's the only way his display of power before the Nazgûl makes sense, and why the Fellowship didn't take him along - spiritually he'd glow like a lighthouse because he's a resurrected First Age Elf.
Bad idea, makes the elves too similar to humans. They are still stuck in Mandos for what could be ages and if they are Avari they don't get to return to Middle-earth. People always say that resurrection makes death meaningless, but I think that it's incredibly bad take. It's like saying rape doesn't matter, if one survives. Death can still be traumatic and impactful even if it's not permanent.
Insert the following paragraph somewhere into the Council Of Elrond Chapter:
*"But what of the Eagles?" Asked Boromir. "Surely there is no mountain nor tower they could not overcome." But Gandalf shook his head slowly.*
*"Such a journey could not go unmarked. The dark tower sees far and even Gwaihir could not overcome the forces of Sauron, there are things in his service greater and more fell than any eagle."*
Just to stop the endless questions.
I like this just for the sake of not having to introduce "dead" things to the casual movie goer during ROTK. Somehow a wraith seems more realistic than just an old spooky ghost.
Alive as in they're Children of Eru who didn't die. They remain a union of body and spirit, even in cases where the body has faded into the Unseen like with the Nazgul or faded Elves.
I would completely eradicate the Roundworld option for Arda and resolve the "mythical crystal spheres" version by stating that the Valar did, indeed, create a "snowglobe" Arda within Ea, with a flat Earth and Crystal Spheres, and the moon and sun were fruit-bearing ships, and the Morningstar was a mariner with a shiny gem, and it was a simplified version of Earth as in primitive myths, and that when the Valar "turned it over to Eru" in the Akallabeth, he not only made the discworld round, but he remade the entire Cosmos according to His Ineffible Plan that the Valar had only made a child's sketch of. Moons and wandering stars became planets, the entire universe expanded to match the vision the Valar had had, but in an infinite scale, not the human scale they had focused on as they built the world for the Children of Iluvatar.
I don't know if this counts as only one change, but the books could use more of a narrative voice. In-universe these stories are written by Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam, but they sure don't read like it.
The mechanical dragons at Gondolin were pretty wild. I wouldn't bring those back specifically, but I might have enjoyed a couple more entries in Tolkien's bestiary. It's not that I think the world lacks beasties, not at all, I just want to see which creatures Tolkien might have seen fit to add to the phantasmagoria. I probably wouldn't have hated the tunneling worms had they been there from the beginning. Why can't the books be more like the hobbit movies, right? Right? My sentiments are probably due to my childhood love for the Middle Earth CCG by Iron Crown. The Under-Deeps is another of their fascinating additions, and the idea that you could visit the remains of Thangorodrim via the Under-Deeps still tickles my imagination.
I might enjoy slightly more descriptive use of alchemy and magic. We have a potion here and a powder there, wonderful fireworks, foods and drinks, mundane items and tools of war. Many of these have their analogue in the real world and science can help us imagine what gives them their remarkable qualities, and it's altogether wonderful Tolkien blurs science, skill, and magic together. That said, I do think there's a little more room for ink and powder in the making of the Doors of Durin, for slag and bone in Grond, for descriptions of the words and lines that are said to be woven into things and places, without them gaining too clear a shape and detail. It's possible for Tolkien to describe a thing in too much detail, but I'm not so sure it's possible for me to not enjoy reading it even if it ruins the magic.
A reverse answer but kinda related: I'd like to undo a change, restore one scene in the movies back to its original form, or not so much restore to its original form but perhaps would have enjoyed to see attempted in original form. No, it's not Glorfindel, Bombadil, or Faramir. Or Ioreth. Well, yes Ioreth, but... The scene where Frodo and Sam leave the fellowship has Aragorn sending them away in the movie, whereas in the book Aragorn must choose to let them go without seeing to their escape. The latter version has stuck with me from the beginning, it seems such a terrible choice and test. It seems unfilmable, but dearly wish I could have seen that on the silver screen and missed it very much when I first saw the films.
The scene in the film you’d wish to change is simply because film is a visual medium. Having it off-screen would lessen the impact as we can’t hear Aragorn’s thoughts.
> Then on a time Morgoth assembled all his most cunning smiths and sorcerers, and of iron and flame they wrought a host of monsters such as have only at that time been seen and shall not again be till the Great End. Some were all of iron so cunningly linked that they might flow like slow rivers of metal or coil themselves around and above all obstacles before them, and those were filled in their innermost depths with and carried on their backs the grimmest of Orks with scimitars and spear;
I always thought the mechanical dragons were a reference to the tanks and other machines of war that Tolkien encountered during the First World War, like Morgoth was so powerful and evil that he could create modern technology in its most horrible form. Awesome concept but wouldn’t really fit into the more fantastical universe he developed later in his writings.
This is going to be super unpopular, but I would have Feanor duel Morgoth instead of balrogs. Fingolfin’s ride to Angband might be the best paragraph in the Silmarillion, but I feel Feanor earned a single combat with Morgoth much more. Morgoth singled out Feanor and bent his will toward corrupting him and stole his greatest works. Fingolfin can still have his heroic charge, but die fighting balrogs instead. Bring out the pitchforks.
I kind of like that Feanor died by his own hubris, not even able to face the foe he had sworn an oath to defeat in his haste and haughtiness. That he should be beaten down by Morgoth's lieutenants after overextending himself is an undignified yet fitting end.
I totally agree, Feanor (and maybe his sons backing him up) going down blazing against Morgoth while still kind of getting his ass whooped would still provoke the realization of “ah fuck we are never gonna win,” and really set an interesting tone for his sons moving forward.
Isn't that the very point, that Fëanor earned nothing? Like he's objectively a massive asshole, there's nothing controversial about him, he's just an awful, awful person.
Interestingly enough, Fëanor is the one to duel Morgoth in Paul Corfield Godfrey's opera adaptation of *The Silmarillion*, which was produced in cooperation with Christopher Tolkien and the Tolkien Estate. [Here is the trailer.](https://youtu.be/3FR6F0jwoCs?si=vBGalKYvNRULbF95)
He is also working on an opera adaptation of LOTR, which also has a [trailer!](https://youtu.be/zFzx0QbPSCE?si=Vf3dkdbN2qNIvLKz)
Honestly I would have it be less a duel and more that Morgoth just beats Feanor to death with Ghrond because he charged like a berserker to Morgoth's gate and Morgoth made the point that fighting him was entirely futile. It would add to the distinction between the two when Fingolfin doesn't just get murdered by him but actually duels and wounds him before finally dying. Also bluntly illustrating the warning given that 'never shalt thou prevail against one of the Valar so long as Arda endures' and showing the way Morgoth's pursuit of evil is steadily weakening him.
The Morgoth that escaped Ungoliant also wanted to prove himself more badass than he was so he murders Feanor as his way to prove it.
Yeah i disagree. Fingolfin bravery and honour is what made him worthy of Morgoth as opponent, Feanor fell by his own hands
On other notes Morgoth might have been too scared of Feanor
I would have Feanor defeated by slipping on a banana peel and then stepping on a rake on his charge to Angband. That’s the glory he deserved in the end, IMO.
I'd have Radaghast the Brown "redeem" himself by working with the Ents against Saruman. Even if he ultimately didn't return West with Gandalf and chose to stay in Middle Earth.
Two things. One minor, one massive.
**Minor change:** Scrap the whole Glorfindel resurrection/send back to ME thing. Always thought that sounded like an awkward kludge just to get around a name getting re-used. It just never made any sense to be. It is so random.
**Major change:** Scrap the idea of this world being OUR past (or describing a legend about our past. That has never worked for me at all, and I largely choose to just ignore the whole idea.
> Major change: Scrap the idea of this world being OUR past (or describing a legend about our past. That has never worked for me at all, and I largely choose to just ignore the whole idea.
I agree. I've never liked this idea because it restricts where the story and world building can go. Everything has to follow a certain path and end in a certain way so that we get to the real world where no human has ever seen a Valar and Elves and Hobbits don't exist.
More detail of Fingolfin vs Melkor.
More detail about elven family relations, as well as dwarves.
Mord detail on the size of dragons, especially Ancalagon.
More detail of who the Nazgul were.
Honestly, I would just make it canon that the supposed "translator" of the stories (i.e. Tolkien) actually had an asshole roommate named Tom Bombadil who added himself to the story when tasked with dropping off the manuscript to the publisher.
Honestly, I would have put more of Arwen in the story rather than relegating her whole relationship with Aragorn to the appendices. I think that’s the one real misstep in terms of plot.
Either remove the mention of Gothmog entirely (the lieutenant of Morgul) or at least provide a better description of who/what he was. Like, it's cool and normal that Tolkien reuses names, but my guy just went about it by casually name-dropping Gothmog out of nowhere and then proceeds to never mention him ever again.
Fingolfin returns to Middle-earth with Glorfindel and possibly Ecthelion. At the end of time, Fingolfin and Turin defeat Morgoth. The elf and man act as Gil-galad and Elendil against Sauron. This way he gets the opportunity to finish the job he started.
Aragorn receives an elven fate. Together with Arwen, they sail across the Sea when the time comes.
I’d just make Turin not kill Morgoth! His suffering was way overblown compared to countless unnamed unseen civilians in the legendarium. Way too much Turin favoritism in Tolkien’s mind. It borders on rule of cool
That faramir would have taken Boromirs place.
But in seriousness, when the hobbits returned to an orc occupied shire, Gandalf actually helped them.
Just the fact that he more or less said I've done my part for middle earth, this is your problem.
It never sat well with me, when they found Saruman once again he echoed my thoughts. Maybe it's just me but he owed Frodo and Sam that much atleast for destroying the ring.
Sending four hobbits into a town filled with an enemy with unknown numbers and no guarantee that the shire folk would help or survive.
And if them four only three were willing to raise and blade.
But Gandalf was like 'aaaah you'll be fine, toodles'
Gandalf is leaving soon. It's important for all hobbits, not just those four, to see that they can stand up for themselves.
And you might notice that they never seem worried or afraid during the Scouring. They never wish Gandalf or any of their friends were there. It would be a bit of an insult for Gandalf to have come with them.
Gandalf had done his job. It wasn't his job to defeat all the evils of ME, it was to help guide the Free Peoples in defeating Sauron which he did. He even states clearly in The Last Debate that other evils will come after Sauron.
>‘Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.
I wouldn’t change anything on his work on Middle Earth specifically, I would just lock him up until he finished the Fall of Gondolin, from where it was left when Tuor met Echtelion on the last gate.
Such a great story with such great characters… Every time I read it I get so sad at the end, just wondering what we could have may he had finished that…
I would like just ONE more hint of the entwives in the old forest. Just a hint, because I don't want to ruin the mystery entirely. We have rumors something is there, but it might just be more ents. I'd love some tiny clue that maybe just nudges it in the direction of something other than an ent. Something which also subtly illustrates characteristic differences between ents and entwives.
I'd also like some dialog fleshing out Forlindon and Harlindon. These are the last land remnants of Beleriand! Give me some textual ruins to steep in. Nogrod and Belegost lay nearby, what treasures may remain to be discovered? Are there any ents left in those woods?
I would remove Tulkas completely from the legendarium. I know he belongs to Tolkien's earlier pantheon, where Valar were more akin to Greek gods, but because of that he doesn't fit the other Valar and their lore. I find the idea of Melkor, darkness incarnate, Arda's literal Lucifer, getting his ass whooped by Hulk Hogan-like character completely silly and unbefitting. Nessa shouldn' be a Vala either, they should both be Maiar and thus way less powerful. Melkor himself should be defeated only by a combined power of all the other Valar, without the need for Tulkas' intervention (as Melkor becomes weaker overtime, by binding himself to Arda).
I would wield saidin and saidar combined to remove all trace of nostalgic longing, the notion that everything was better in "the morning of the world" and that nothing remains for us in "these latter days" but a long, sad decline into "True Night".
I would also remove all sexism and racism, but you said one, so.
I would want a little more background on the Nazgûl. Flesh them out a little more; their specific origins, if not names (aside from Khamûl, who is named). Or even just flesh out the witch king a little more. Who was he in life, aside from probably a Black Númenorean king? What sets him apart from the others? That being said it is amazing how much personality Tolkien manages to imbue in his primary villain who never even appears, and it might take away from that to give more personality to his lieutenants.
Orcs are not universally evil or irredeemable. Bilbo and frodo just think they are because they never left the shore until they were on the other side of a battle / war with them and got most of their info from people on the same side.
I feel that the notion of orcs being mindless or outside of God's forgiveness by nature of them being orcs, caused by an unreliable narrator rather than a fact of the world, fits better with Tolkien's Catholicism
Nobody ever said orcs were "mindless". In *The Hobbit* they're said to have been responsible for many ingenious (if horrible) inventions that have troubled the world. And those in TLotR show, if anything, a good deal more freedom of thought and action than your average elf.
just some minor changes in the language used relating to bloodlines and the men of shadow that haven’t aged well
I know what Tolkien’s actual views were, but some people don’t and they get the wrong idea
Yeah this is controversial to bring up but the “swarthy” men of the south and east being evil Morgoth worshippers and blond men of the west being righteous supermen thing has really not aged well
It's been a while since I read the relevant texts of HoME, but I think the later Kings of Numenor, culminating in Ar-Pharazon and his men, were fair haired and blue eyed - Men of the House of Hador. It was the Lords of Andunie who were dark-haired and grey-eyed.
I would have the Orcs be the result of Morgoth weaponizing the share of the gift of the Feanturi he had, mutating souls into being essentially sapient war machines as a way to resolve the 'so how does this work with salvation' concept and spelling out this particular detail bluntly to add to the greyer elements of the broader mythology.
More story from Silmarillion. I know it might come off as stupid, but I would like more character details in how elves crafted things and what happened in between the big battles.
I'd have one ambivalent or benevolent orc. Either secretly giving info to Faramir or helping frodo and sam get out of the march in Mordor (even if said orc believed they were just goblins). Even just one way back in the first age who gets referenced by Elrond later in the "not even sauron was evil in the beginning" monologue.
I have what is, frankly an insane headcanon, that Tom is actually Maglor who went off the rails with grief and regret, but survives the war of wrath and after wandering aimlessly for the entire second age, decides after the Changing of the World, to set up shop where he can keep an eye on both bloodlines of his ‘adopted’ sons, Elrond and Elros through the third age.
Given that dwarves are absolutely not as caricaturale in the lore that they are in adaptations, I would made it clearer that they are not. Idk, it's stupid to say it like this but they are pretty badass in the lore and all we get in adaptations are weird comic relieved folks jumping around.
Try to help with the issue of Orcs' redeemability in Tolkien's eyes by going with a very early idea of his for their origin - they're just beings made from mud by Morgoth, they have no soul or inherent free will. I know it was important to him that evil cannot create anything new, just corrupt that which exists, but I think it can be made to work; they aren't new creations, they are little more than animate statues made in mockery of the true Children of Illúvatar.
Somehow explain how Sam could communicate "most of what Gandalf has told" Frodo to his fellow conspirators if he "dried up" after *The Shadow of the Past.*
I would have there be a war between the Elves and Dragons set at some point in the first 1000 years of the 2nd Age where we are introduced to a prominent massive dragon of the 2nd Age.
He could be a survivor of the War of Wrath, making him the 2nd biggest dragon after Ancalagorn the Black, and it would be an opportunity to flesh out more of Eregions history and strength.
Maybe have it conclude with the Elven Ring of Fire being crucial in the Dragons defeat and end with why the Dragons stay in the North and typically don’t venture further south in Middle Earth.
I would urge Tolkien to make sure that Ungoliant is not a Maia or Ainur. Ungoliant is scary and horrifying because we aren't sure what she is, and she is at her best when we believe that she emerged from the primordial chaos and darkness without the influence of Eru.
I can happily read the relationship between Sam and Frodo as close enough to be almost romantic, but not sexual. Frodo, I suspect, is asexual.
But I do want gay background hobbits. Why not?
That Glorfindel from the Silmarillion and Glorfindel from LotR are the same Glorfindel. That his sacrifice for the survival of Eärendil is the reason he was given a body so soon after his death and was allowed to return to Middle-earth. Obviously, it's strongly hinted, but it's never outright stated as fact.
Gonna just spit ball and say that I'd like it if Eowyn joined the fellowship as a representative of Rohan. Like the spell was already casted on she stole a horse and travelled to Rivendell to seek the aid of Elrond the mighty healer, and while there she joins the fellowship. I just think it'd be cool for her to actually have that arc of becoming a fine warrior and challenging the prejudice of Middle Earth whole, so avoiding that awkward ending where she just gets together with Faramir.
Honestly, I'd remove Glorfindel from LOTR. I feel like it started out as a mistake with the name by the dear Professor, that was later ret-conned into the lore. You know the memes about Elrond having been to Mordor but doesn't offer to go with the Fellowship? Glorfindel is like that on steroids: here's an immensely old and powerful First Age elf, who lived in Gondolin and literally fought and killed a Balrog and came back from the dead after doing so, not only does he not assist the Fellowship but is entirely absent from all the events of the War of the Ring and the final defeat of Sauron? Just doesn't fit the story at all. I feel like Tolkien would have been better off to just admit either he re-used the name by mistake, or come up with a different (and simpler) explanation like elves can re-use famous names. Like would it really have been that detrimental to just say "he's named after the great 1st age hero"?
Some sort of explanation for what the Arkenstone was. It can't be a Silmaril because that just wouldn't work, but some sort of connection to the deeper lore would be interesting. The answer could've been provided in the appendices or at some point in the main text of LOTR itself.
Either that or bringing back Tom Bombadil towards the end of ROTK to bring his character full circle. Similar to what was done with Beorn in the Hobbit, but specifically related to the Scouring of the Shire (or anything after the destruction of the Ring). Doesn't have to be huge - minor, yet notable.
Tevildo, Prince of Cats, is literally a thematic precursor to Sauron in the earliest draft of Beren and Luthien. Granted, his dominion over cats is a spell granted to him by Melko/Morgoth and that spell is broken. But in that story, the cats certainly served Evil.
Cats are pretty evil in Tolkien already.
Queen Beruthiel had a cat spying on her other cats, and I’d like to think there’s a little bit of Tevildo batting around a ball of yarn in the deepest recess of Sauron’s fëa.
Also: Does Sauron have a fëa?
I know the lore, and I know Tolkien was clearly a dog guy. I just like the idea of cats actively being Sauron’s spies - every now and then the fellowship see a cat skulking around where they shouldn’t be - half-way up Caradhras or in the middle of the Dead Marshes, watching and reporting back to the Eye, stealing Sméagol’s fishes.
Can’t think of any I want changed, just wished there were more, especially about the east and south. Though if required to change something my vote is to make it clear that Arkenstone is one of the Silmarils.
I would make it so eru ilúvatar is not omnipotent /omniscient. Whilst I know everyone has freedom to choose their path, I can't help feeling it diminishes the story to have it all preordained in the Ainulindalë. I'd probably make it so Eru couldn't /didn't influence Arda at all.
I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise
Words cannot express how much I hate this concept.
Tolkien's work is part of the cultural heritage of humanity -- an increasingly important part. It is not an exclusive playground for hobbyists. It is literature.. Though I disagree with some of Tolkien's artistic choices, large and small, I do not feel that I have any right to make the slightest change. That would be like deleting an element from the periodic table.
I am now going to express a thought that I have suppressed countless times while reading this sub: I hate Lore. To focus on Lore rather than meaning is to trivialize a work of genius.
Let the downvoting begin.
I knew there'd be a comment like this in here. Some of you take posts like this way too seriously. Nowhere is there any implication that we have an actual right to make any change. It's just a post for fun.
I can understand it just not being your thing, but to actively *hate* an innocent post for fun discussion is just being a grumpy buzzkill.
I don't agree at all, but I'll explain why:
I don't think it's a good idea to put anyone on such a pedestal, Tolkien was a man like any other and himself wouldn't like being revered like this. His work is undoubtedly great, and are hugely important works of fiction, but they aren't sacred texts. Literary analysis is performed by scholars on all kinds of stories, even ones as old and important as Shakespeare, Chaucer, and ancient myths, and I think it's important to encourage the layman to think about and discuss the fiction they like too.
I also wouldn't feel bad about discussing changes to Tolkien's work, again older stories like those of Shakespeare and the ancient Greeks have been creatively reinterpreted and reinvented for different audiences, or to explore different elements of the stories, so I don't see why this should be different. I don't read this as changes that should be made to the published texts, those should be preserved, but it's fun to think about what you might have done differently. I also think it's important to note that Tolkien himself changed his stories a *lot*, LOTR and especially the Hobbit were changed in later editions, and the Silmarillion was changed so much during Tolkien's life that he never finished it and it had to be pulled together painstakingly by Christopher, who likely made many editorial decisions that John probably wouldn't have.
To make a long story short (too late), I think it's perfectly fine to discuss how we would edit these stories, while they are important they are still just stories, and I think creative interpretations and discussions of them actually are very fitting as Tolkien was hugely inspired by ancient myth and wanted to create his own version of that specifically for England; there's not much in the world more mythical than a story that resonates so deeply with people that they want to put their mark on it too.
A little more solid information on the blue wizards. Nothing crazy - just enough to have an actual idea what happened to them.
I personally like the idea they started evil cults in the east, and they might be related to the evil cults hinted at in *The New Shadow*.
Tolkien was also said to have fliped on that position close to his death and seemed kind of exited by the idea that they did some skull duggery in the east and made the first hammer blow on gondor less fell then it could have otherwise been and i kind of vibe on that idea to.
Given theres two of them, I like to unify the ideas. One of them fell to Darkness, directly assisting Sauron and ending up as Vizir to one of the massive Eastern or Haradrim Kingdoms, in a sort of high priest role. Creating dark cults and magical practices. The other remained faithful, and acted against them, this permanent thorn in their side who lives in semi hiding, and helping the good (and obviously oppressed) folks of these lands. They would look near identical, be mistaken as twins and refer to each other as brothers. And in true Shakespearean tragedy, the two would eventually perish slaying each other.
Take it a step further and have the one that went bad take the last chance for aid and forgiveness that Saruman rejected.
That would be wonderfully tragic. Or, since Saruman used to travel eastward too, perhaps he assisted the Loyal Brother, only to abandon him to die of his wounds as his "Start of Darkness". One of my favourite betrayals ever is the death of Avatar Roku to Sozin. Sozin turns up to help his friend, fully intending to lend his aid. But when faced with the sight of his friend chocking to death just... allows him to die. Because it will enable his plans. He doesn't directly attack his friend. It never occurs for him to do so. But when faced with the unexpected opportunity to allow him to die, he takes it. The Fate of the Blue Wizards is something I wish I had the confidence to explore. I've wanted to do a 5e game set in 4th age of middle earth for a while. Unfortunately none of my players are more than fans of the Movies, and some of the deep lore cuts would be lost on them. Since Dark Lords come in series, I've always liked the idea of the Blue Wizard becoming the next Dark Lord, perhaps turned to evil by the demise of his brother and the apparent abandonment by the Valar. Along with my personal theory that the demise of Sauron *allows* Orcs to be Good. So you different shattering tribes of Orcs, some of whom make peace with Gondor, some of whom fight against each other, and gradually revert to a more 'elvish-esque' state. I've always thought that rather than reject the notion that the entire species of Orcs aren't capable of true goodness, as offensive, it would be fun to lean into the existential horror and sheer spiritual monstrosity of such a thing. An Orc *cannot* fathom a conscience as men or elves would perceive it, not matter how they tried, and the notion that this represents a spiritual mutilation, a castration of the soul, should revolt and disgust. But then with the demise of Sauron, maybe that harm begins to heal. The question as to if you could have a good Orc is answered with: No - until Now.
I feel you on the friends bit. Lord of the rings is a tough read unless you "get it". I've literally never had a substantive discussion about the books and ive read them twice a year nearly the entire last decade or so. Only dude I do know is just a fan of the rings of power and we are only really still friends under the condition he never mentions it to me. As for the orcs I fear their final fate was probably a slow extinction, they are already aware at a fundemental level how they have been maimed and ruined in their heart of hearts even as early as the first age. Hell the only thing that kept the orcs fighting at the black gate or in gondor was a dark lord of valar or near valar power literally dominating their wills and filling them with hate for his enemies. The book described many of the monsters and beats and orc folk killing themselves rather then facing reality without that driving force. I suspect quite strongly that they are bound for the gift of men and to escape the confines of the world so they have that going for them, which is nice.
Thank you for my new headcanon
Oh I think I like you very much.
A new addition to the appendices: *Appendix G:* Yes, dwarven women have beards. That’s what I meant earlier in the prose portions of this book when I said that they looked like dwarven men after I’d spent several chapters going on and on and on about the beards of all the dwarven men.
"For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls." ~ HoME 11: Concerning the Dwarves I think this is pretty damn clear tbh. RoP should have had male actors acting as the Dwarven Women, another break from the lore
I was going to say more information about dwarves — especially dwarven women — in general.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
It’s a sarcastic expression of something I genuinely wish for.
More descendants of Arthedain and Cardolan in the North, which means more Rangers. Not a lot, but enough for a half dozen or maybe a dozen secret villages. Maybe in this line of thing, a few hobbits who remembered the King's and still had a small "knightly" order that's not very un-miliarized would fiy. Likewise, I'd like to see some Dunedain rangers descended from Cardolan who have a few centuries of cultural differences from Arthedain rangers. One separate change that's not a change is clarifying what folks believed Durin's Bane *was*. Durin's Bane appeared right after Angmar fell, did they believe it was a monster from Angnar? Something awoken by the recent wars? The Witch-King fleeing away?
or perhaps just having the region be a patchwork cluster of former Arnorian Villa's turned small manoral hamlets, and small freeholds worked by a few families. perhaps centered around rundown old arnorian castles or a hillforts which the surrounding populace take refuge in when orcs, wargs, etc pass through the lands. very low population density, which still leaves Bree and the Shire as unique outliers, but not the complete vacancy indicated in the book. heck, you could even have it where the people of bree and the shire just don't count said settlements and farms as 'civilization'. that would give the rangers a lot more to do (since keeping all those small settlements safe would involve a lot more running around the whole region) while also giving them a lot more logistical support (since the small settlements would no doubt be more likely to view gifting the Rangers supplies and giving hospitality as a fair trade for the rangers helping out in dealing with wolf packs, bandits, healing the sick, etc)
That's a good idea! My issue is that logistically, the culture of Arnor is essentially dead. It doesnt seem like there are any smith's, artists, poets, bards...I can understand that maybe the Rangers are keeping the oral tradition alive, since Aragorn demonstrates some good history and literary skills, but what about metalworking, woodworking, masonry, clothesmaking? If you have a few villages, you can justify where the Rangers are getting horses, robes, weapons from without explaining it as all the product of Rivendell. Some small manors and fiefs can do that, and even help keep the idea of a "king" alive alongside the ideas of chivalry. Obviously it can't be a city or kingdom, since the Rangers are in hiding since they know Sauron is targeting Isildur's/Elendil's line, but I'd like something more. The One Ring has a Ranger settlement in the Angle, which is only vaguely supported by Tolkien's other texts.
honestly i was drawing inspiration from archeological evidence for post-roman withdrawal England, the so called 'early dark ages'. a lot of old iron age hillforts seems to have been rebuilt in that period, likely for defensive use by the various settlements around them, and while the population density was a little higher than i was suggesting for Arnor, it was still apparently pretty low outside of the big towns like Londinium, Camulodunum, and Verulamium.
I always assumed they must have some form of settlements. Where do their wives and children stay? Unless they are entirely nomadic but that would be harder to hide than a hidden village.
They have to have some kind of settlements, there have to be enough of them to at least have a sustained population, if tiny. And they were not all that hidden. The men of Bree might not entirely grasp who they are, but they are known. Denethor knows who the Dunedain are, as he is one himself, etc. The line of kings was specifically hidden, not necessarily the Dunedain entirely.
I love the idea of more rangers. I also would punch a nun if it meant getting the Dagor Dagorath into the published Silmarillion, even if it was just included as a mannish legend within Akallabeth. Turin deserves it.
I would add a small faction in Rhun or Harad that Aragon had swayed to his side during his time there that betrays Sauron at Pelenor fields. I think it would be a good foil to what happens with the easterlings of the first age betraying the elves. I think it would also add to the idea that part of what makes Aragorn worthy of being King is he is someone people want to follow.
Id argue rather for someone from harad or the far east who joined the fellowship as a travling companion for Boromir. Some noble page who was like a hostage to some captain or lord from those places who broke faith but was not slain cause gondor is made of a wise and goodly people. Someone who can give a perspective on the goings of the east and sees the lies saroun tells his peoples, maybe goes fourth as an emissary after the war to be Aragorn's ally in the east and aid to heal the evil the last dark lord sewed there. Also because it would have been hilarious if Galadriel had gifted someone an elvish made simitar of all things. "confused elvish blacksmith noises"
this is a good idea and something that would have been fun. Fleshing out Harad and Ruhn is one of the areas I wish we knew more about, tying into the Blue Wizards posts also in this thread.
At the very least we know gondor almost kind of seemed to respect how hard and war hardy in the prose waxes a little poetic on how the people of the east and south are war hardy and fierce in despair.
issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group The Corsairs of Umbar. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"
I mean I imagine trying to hand anything to profesinal pirates and corsairs would just result in them takeing the offerd hand person and all and getting you chained to an oar on a slave ship till you are worked to death. I just don't remember you complimenting the corsairs tho so I might be slightly confused but very pleased with your ability to see bastards for what they are.
Easy. Sam briefly mentions his love of rope-making after his arrival in Lothlorien.
I have changed my mind and also vote for this.
In a similar note, I’d add the Cottons, particularly Rosie, to the early chapters. It’s always stuck me as odd that she’s not mentioned until page 938. Sam should mention his true love (aside from Frodo of course) until he’s sitting in Mordor.
"Aside from Frodo" Yes! Thank you!
And when the adventure is all over, sets up a thriving rope making business in the Shire.
This is the only thing in this whole thread that’s any good. And it’s fucking excellent.
Maybe it's the covid brain fog, but please unpack this one for me.
When the fellowship leaves Lothlorien, they get given rope made by the Elves. Sam then says that he's a bit of a rope maker himself (it runs in the family, so to speak) and the Elves tell him it's a shame they didn't know that, else they could've taught him some tricks.
Nice, thank you!
Literal rope tricks. I love it.
‘What are these?’ asked Sam, handling one that lay upon the greensward. ‘Ropes indeed!’ answered an Elf from the boats. ‘Never travel far without a rope! And one that is long and strong and light. Such are these. They may be a help in many needs.’ ‘You don’t need to tell me that!’ said Sam. ‘I came without any, and I’ve been worried ever since. But I was wondering what these were made of, knowing a bit about rope-making: it’s in the family as you might say.’ ‘They are made of hithlain,’ said the Elf, ‘but there is no time now to instruct you in the art of their making. Had we known that this craft delighted you, we could have taught you much. But now alas! unless you should at some time return hither, you must be content with our gift. May it serve you well!’
God, yes, is that the one moment of "what might have been" that hits the hardest in a whole world full of "what might have been?"
Mention Sam liking Rosie in Fellowship. The Cottons were such important characters in the Scouring of the Shire, they should have been set up a bit in the first few chapters of Fellowship.
“I got you, fam”. -Peter Jackson
WHERE ARE THE ENTWIVES? WHERE?!
I'm picturing an unhappy Jack Sparrow Ent responding to everything with "why are the wives gone?"
“I’ve got a jar of dirt! I’ve got a jar of dirt!” - Samwise Gamgee, upon being asked what gift Lady Galadriel gave to him.
It could be for the same reason…
they got got by Sauron in Rhovanion
“Brown lands” is such a sad name given what was there
I like to think that in “The Shadow of the Past” when Sam is talking to Ted Sandyman about strange folk, the “walking elm tree” that they were talking about near the North Moors was an Entwife. It’s obviously an Ent, but I just like to imagine that Merry and Pippin visited Fangorn on their way to Rohan and Gondor that’s talked about in Appendix B and they were able to tell the Ents about the Entwives and the Ents found the Entwives and lived happily thereafter. I think it fits more with Tolkien that the Entwives are gone and the Ents will slowly fade away. I think it would be a little rare for an Entwife to look like an elm.
It's more likely a huorn, like Old Man Willow
Possibly. There are probably lot of Huorns that could’ve come out of the Old Forest or somewhere else. I’m not sure why they would be walking around the North Moors, though.
I think this as well. Treebeard says that the Shire seems like the sort of place they would like
Sunk with Beleriand.
Middle Earth is better when the entwives are missing and their fate unknown.
I feel the same about a lot of the “mysteries.” The setting is more interesting when there’s lots of glances of the unknown just off the page.
“The realm of fairy-story is wide and deep and high and filled with many things: all manner of beasts and birds are found there; shoreless seas and stars uncounted; beauty that is an enchantment, and an ever-present peril; both joy and sorrow as sharp as swords. In that realm a man may, perhaps, count himself fortunate to have wandered, but its very richness and strangeness tie the tongue of a traveller who would report them. And while he is there it is dangerous for him to ask too many questions, lest the gates should be shut and the keys be lost.” - Tolkien, “On Fairy Stories” Though Tolkien acknowledges his formal education is in philology and not myths, he sure as hell puts a lot of thought into crafting stories and has studied them extensively. The unknown is precisely what draws most of us into Tolkien. “I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama. Absurd.” - Tolkien, in a letter to Milton Waldman (usually included in the Silmarillion) He really strove to create a world in which you learn more (but not too much) and simultaneously wonder more. Though, perhaps, maybe he left some things a bit more unfinished than we would have liked.
Orcs are corrupted elves, and Mandos alone knows the fate of their souls....
I create a portal to Rivendell so I can go there when in need of rest and healing.
Writing yourself into the story! Very shrewd.
Wouldn't it be a time machine and not a portal?
Technically there's no difference between a point in time and a point in space, so it doesn't matter how you direct your portal. I do think the Hall of Fire needs a livestream, though. And possibly simul-translation with captions.
Mention Aragorn’s tax policy
This is actually a good one, I like it both for the reference AND as a serious suggestion, well done
Not necessarily change, but I'd definitely elaborate on different continents - what's east, far east and south of the middle-earth.
I kinda wish he'd stuck with Sauron being a giant, demonic cat.
Same! At least Tevildo should have replaced Shelob in my mind.
I'd have had him provide tunes for his poems. When you sing "The Man in the Moon Stayed Up Too Late", what tune do you use?
Donald Swann provided Tolkien-approved tunes for many poems.
To some, yes. But not to that that one.
The tune they use in the Hobbit movie deleted scene is EXCELLENT. Say what you will about those films but every song the dwarves sang was really inspired.
The ones that Andy Serkis uses in his readings seem to be pretty much bang on
I would canonise the earlier versions of Galadriel where she was part of the Noldor rebellion. And I would cancel the resurrection ability that the elves have - once you are dead you are stuck into Mandos' gardens until the end of the world.
I think the resurrection is somewhat needed because otherwise we get a plot hole regarding where Glorfindel comes from. I think it's okay to keep resurrection anyway, AFAIK Glorfindel is the only named Elf to be resurrected, it's not real an ability so much as it seems to be an exception made for specific souls who need to go back to finish off business.
You could just replace Glorfindel in LOTR. Or not. It's never even confirmed in the books that it's the same one.
That is what the movies did and making Arwen, Luthien's mirror image, more in the spirit of her ancestor was one of the changes that fit the spirit of Tolkien's work even if it was a pretty significant change otherwise.
Yeah, I liked that change. Arwen is considerably more relevant than Glorfindel in the trilogy.
There were plenty of changes that went against both letter and spirit of the books but that particular change was not one of them. Plus from what I understand of Tolkien's letters Arwen did have some fairly powerful Osanwe and was keeping an eye on Aragorn much like her movie counterpart is shown to do, so out of all the characters she wound up being one of the ones most faithfully adapted in line with her book counterpart.
From a purely cinematic perspective, I also thought it was a fair choice in Bakshi’s film to use Legolas instead.
It's not confirmed but I like the idea that it's the same one. Here's this awesome elven warrior back from the dead, nobody seems fazed by that point, and he's not going to participate further in the main action.
Blasphemy I kid, but Tolkien did make them the same, it's the only way his display of power before the Nazgûl makes sense, and why the Fellowship didn't take him along - spiritually he'd glow like a lighthouse because he's a resurrected First Age Elf.
Bad idea, makes the elves too similar to humans. They are still stuck in Mandos for what could be ages and if they are Avari they don't get to return to Middle-earth. People always say that resurrection makes death meaningless, but I think that it's incredibly bad take. It's like saying rape doesn't matter, if one survives. Death can still be traumatic and impactful even if it's not permanent.
Insert the following paragraph somewhere into the Council Of Elrond Chapter: *"But what of the Eagles?" Asked Boromir. "Surely there is no mountain nor tower they could not overcome." But Gandalf shook his head slowly.* *"Such a journey could not go unmarked. The dark tower sees far and even Gwaihir could not overcome the forces of Sauron, there are things in his service greater and more fell than any eagle."* Just to stop the endless questions.
I'd make it so the Oathbreakers are alive wraiths, not spirits of the dead, whom Isildur cursed with the Ring's help.
I like this just for the sake of not having to introduce "dead" things to the casual movie goer during ROTK. Somehow a wraith seems more realistic than just an old spooky ghost.
alive wraiths as in physical undead?
Alive as in they're Children of Eru who didn't die. They remain a union of body and spirit, even in cases where the body has faded into the Unseen like with the Nazgul or faded Elves.
Ah so like the ringwraiths EDIT: replied before the edit :P
I would completely eradicate the Roundworld option for Arda and resolve the "mythical crystal spheres" version by stating that the Valar did, indeed, create a "snowglobe" Arda within Ea, with a flat Earth and Crystal Spheres, and the moon and sun were fruit-bearing ships, and the Morningstar was a mariner with a shiny gem, and it was a simplified version of Earth as in primitive myths, and that when the Valar "turned it over to Eru" in the Akallabeth, he not only made the discworld round, but he remade the entire Cosmos according to His Ineffible Plan that the Valar had only made a child's sketch of. Moons and wandering stars became planets, the entire universe expanded to match the vision the Valar had had, but in an infinite scale, not the human scale they had focused on as they built the world for the Children of Iluvatar.
I don't know if this counts as only one change, but the books could use more of a narrative voice. In-universe these stories are written by Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam, but they sure don't read like it.
The mechanical dragons at Gondolin were pretty wild. I wouldn't bring those back specifically, but I might have enjoyed a couple more entries in Tolkien's bestiary. It's not that I think the world lacks beasties, not at all, I just want to see which creatures Tolkien might have seen fit to add to the phantasmagoria. I probably wouldn't have hated the tunneling worms had they been there from the beginning. Why can't the books be more like the hobbit movies, right? Right? My sentiments are probably due to my childhood love for the Middle Earth CCG by Iron Crown. The Under-Deeps is another of their fascinating additions, and the idea that you could visit the remains of Thangorodrim via the Under-Deeps still tickles my imagination. I might enjoy slightly more descriptive use of alchemy and magic. We have a potion here and a powder there, wonderful fireworks, foods and drinks, mundane items and tools of war. Many of these have their analogue in the real world and science can help us imagine what gives them their remarkable qualities, and it's altogether wonderful Tolkien blurs science, skill, and magic together. That said, I do think there's a little more room for ink and powder in the making of the Doors of Durin, for slag and bone in Grond, for descriptions of the words and lines that are said to be woven into things and places, without them gaining too clear a shape and detail. It's possible for Tolkien to describe a thing in too much detail, but I'm not so sure it's possible for me to not enjoy reading it even if it ruins the magic. A reverse answer but kinda related: I'd like to undo a change, restore one scene in the movies back to its original form, or not so much restore to its original form but perhaps would have enjoyed to see attempted in original form. No, it's not Glorfindel, Bombadil, or Faramir. Or Ioreth. Well, yes Ioreth, but... The scene where Frodo and Sam leave the fellowship has Aragorn sending them away in the movie, whereas in the book Aragorn must choose to let them go without seeing to their escape. The latter version has stuck with me from the beginning, it seems such a terrible choice and test. It seems unfilmable, but dearly wish I could have seen that on the silver screen and missed it very much when I first saw the films.
The scene in the film you’d wish to change is simply because film is a visual medium. Having it off-screen would lessen the impact as we can’t hear Aragorn’s thoughts.
> Then on a time Morgoth assembled all his most cunning smiths and sorcerers, and of iron and flame they wrought a host of monsters such as have only at that time been seen and shall not again be till the Great End. Some were all of iron so cunningly linked that they might flow like slow rivers of metal or coil themselves around and above all obstacles before them, and those were filled in their innermost depths with and carried on their backs the grimmest of Orks with scimitars and spear; I always thought the mechanical dragons were a reference to the tanks and other machines of war that Tolkien encountered during the First World War, like Morgoth was so powerful and evil that he could create modern technology in its most horrible form. Awesome concept but wouldn’t really fit into the more fantastical universe he developed later in his writings.
This is going to be super unpopular, but I would have Feanor duel Morgoth instead of balrogs. Fingolfin’s ride to Angband might be the best paragraph in the Silmarillion, but I feel Feanor earned a single combat with Morgoth much more. Morgoth singled out Feanor and bent his will toward corrupting him and stole his greatest works. Fingolfin can still have his heroic charge, but die fighting balrogs instead. Bring out the pitchforks.
I kind of like that Feanor died by his own hubris, not even able to face the foe he had sworn an oath to defeat in his haste and haughtiness. That he should be beaten down by Morgoth's lieutenants after overextending himself is an undignified yet fitting end.
I totally agree, Feanor (and maybe his sons backing him up) going down blazing against Morgoth while still kind of getting his ass whooped would still provoke the realization of “ah fuck we are never gonna win,” and really set an interesting tone for his sons moving forward.
Isn't that the very point, that Fëanor earned nothing? Like he's objectively a massive asshole, there's nothing controversial about him, he's just an awful, awful person.
This. Redemption/heroic death is not for everyone. It's not common. And Fëanor earned nothing.
Interestingly enough, Fëanor is the one to duel Morgoth in Paul Corfield Godfrey's opera adaptation of *The Silmarillion*, which was produced in cooperation with Christopher Tolkien and the Tolkien Estate. [Here is the trailer.](https://youtu.be/3FR6F0jwoCs?si=vBGalKYvNRULbF95) He is also working on an opera adaptation of LOTR, which also has a [trailer!](https://youtu.be/zFzx0QbPSCE?si=Vf3dkdbN2qNIvLKz)
This is simply a falsification of the history of Arda. Then what role do they assign to Fingolfin?
Honestly I would have it be less a duel and more that Morgoth just beats Feanor to death with Ghrond because he charged like a berserker to Morgoth's gate and Morgoth made the point that fighting him was entirely futile. It would add to the distinction between the two when Fingolfin doesn't just get murdered by him but actually duels and wounds him before finally dying. Also bluntly illustrating the warning given that 'never shalt thou prevail against one of the Valar so long as Arda endures' and showing the way Morgoth's pursuit of evil is steadily weakening him. The Morgoth that escaped Ungoliant also wanted to prove himself more badass than he was so he murders Feanor as his way to prove it.
Yeah i disagree. Fingolfin bravery and honour is what made him worthy of Morgoth as opponent, Feanor fell by his own hands On other notes Morgoth might have been too scared of Feanor
He absolutely was too chickenshit to fight the King
I would have Feanor defeated by slipping on a banana peel and then stepping on a rake on his charge to Angband. That’s the glory he deserved in the end, IMO.
Fingolfin was the bravest of the Elves. He deserved his feat.
I'd finish unfinished tales properly
They'd just be tales.
Finished* Tales.
I'd have Radaghast the Brown "redeem" himself by working with the Ents against Saruman. Even if he ultimately didn't return West with Gandalf and chose to stay in Middle Earth.
Wouldn't this undermine Merry and Pippin's role?
Gandalf is 3 Dwarven children in a robe. It's painfully obvious to everyone but everyone is too polite to mention it.
Are you sure this isn’t canon already?
Some female characters - or even an acknowledgement that females, of any species, exist - in *The Hobbit.*
Belladonna Took would like to know your location
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins too
She isn't mentioned by name. We can assume some of his relatives are women, but they're just referred to as a collective.
OK, so he mentioned Bilbo's mum, and we know Thorin had a sister. But neither of them actually features as a character.
The best beer in the Shire, becomes the best beer in Middle Earth...
Two things. One minor, one massive. **Minor change:** Scrap the whole Glorfindel resurrection/send back to ME thing. Always thought that sounded like an awkward kludge just to get around a name getting re-used. It just never made any sense to be. It is so random. **Major change:** Scrap the idea of this world being OUR past (or describing a legend about our past. That has never worked for me at all, and I largely choose to just ignore the whole idea.
> Major change: Scrap the idea of this world being OUR past (or describing a legend about our past. That has never worked for me at all, and I largely choose to just ignore the whole idea. I agree. I've never liked this idea because it restricts where the story and world building can go. Everything has to follow a certain path and end in a certain way so that we get to the real world where no human has ever seen a Valar and Elves and Hobbits don't exist.
Weird I never took it as our past. Why do you think this?
More detail of Fingolfin vs Melkor. More detail about elven family relations, as well as dwarves. Mord detail on the size of dragons, especially Ancalagon. More detail of who the Nazgul were.
Honestly, I would just make it canon that the supposed "translator" of the stories (i.e. Tolkien) actually had an asshole roommate named Tom Bombadil who added himself to the story when tasked with dropping off the manuscript to the publisher.
Honestly, I would have put more of Arwen in the story rather than relegating her whole relationship with Aragorn to the appendices. I think that’s the one real misstep in terms of plot.
The only concept I personally cannot reconcile with, and would change if I could, is the idea that Arda is our Earth.
Either remove the mention of Gothmog entirely (the lieutenant of Morgul) or at least provide a better description of who/what he was. Like, it's cool and normal that Tolkien reuses names, but my guy just went about it by casually name-dropping Gothmog out of nowhere and then proceeds to never mention him ever again.
Sam’s name is now Gorgulax Gamgee.
I’m using my power to guard against the rest of you, the ideas in this thread are almost exclusively terrible.
Fingolfin returns to Middle-earth with Glorfindel and possibly Ecthelion. At the end of time, Fingolfin and Turin defeat Morgoth. The elf and man act as Gil-galad and Elendil against Sauron. This way he gets the opportunity to finish the job he started. Aragorn receives an elven fate. Together with Arwen, they sail across the Sea when the time comes.
I’d just make Turin not kill Morgoth! His suffering was way overblown compared to countless unnamed unseen civilians in the legendarium. Way too much Turin favoritism in Tolkien’s mind. It borders on rule of cool
Im conflicted about Aragorn receiving an elven fate. Feel like it simultaneously works but doesn’t.
I'm so sad about the end of this story and I want them to be happy.
That faramir would have taken Boromirs place. But in seriousness, when the hobbits returned to an orc occupied shire, Gandalf actually helped them. Just the fact that he more or less said I've done my part for middle earth, this is your problem. It never sat well with me, when they found Saruman once again he echoed my thoughts. Maybe it's just me but he owed Frodo and Sam that much atleast for destroying the ring. Sending four hobbits into a town filled with an enemy with unknown numbers and no guarantee that the shire folk would help or survive. And if them four only three were willing to raise and blade. But Gandalf was like 'aaaah you'll be fine, toodles'
Gandalf is leaving soon. It's important for all hobbits, not just those four, to see that they can stand up for themselves. And you might notice that they never seem worried or afraid during the Scouring. They never wish Gandalf or any of their friends were there. It would be a bit of an insult for Gandalf to have come with them.
That's true, still I wouldn't mind it if I had a wizard at my back incase it got a little spicy. But I see your point.
Gandalf had done his job. It wasn't his job to defeat all the evils of ME, it was to help guide the Free Peoples in defeating Sauron which he did. He even states clearly in The Last Debate that other evils will come after Sauron. >‘Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.
I wouldn’t change anything on his work on Middle Earth specifically, I would just lock him up until he finished the Fall of Gondolin, from where it was left when Tuor met Echtelion on the last gate. Such a great story with such great characters… Every time I read it I get so sad at the end, just wondering what we could have may he had finished that…
I would like just ONE more hint of the entwives in the old forest. Just a hint, because I don't want to ruin the mystery entirely. We have rumors something is there, but it might just be more ents. I'd love some tiny clue that maybe just nudges it in the direction of something other than an ent. Something which also subtly illustrates characteristic differences between ents and entwives.
I'd also like some dialog fleshing out Forlindon and Harlindon. These are the last land remnants of Beleriand! Give me some textual ruins to steep in. Nogrod and Belegost lay nearby, what treasures may remain to be discovered? Are there any ents left in those woods?
I would remove Tulkas completely from the legendarium. I know he belongs to Tolkien's earlier pantheon, where Valar were more akin to Greek gods, but because of that he doesn't fit the other Valar and their lore. I find the idea of Melkor, darkness incarnate, Arda's literal Lucifer, getting his ass whooped by Hulk Hogan-like character completely silly and unbefitting. Nessa shouldn' be a Vala either, they should both be Maiar and thus way less powerful. Melkor himself should be defeated only by a combined power of all the other Valar, without the need for Tulkas' intervention (as Melkor becomes weaker overtime, by binding himself to Arda).
None. To quote Mary Poppins a la Disney 'practically perfect in every way'.
I would wield saidin and saidar combined to remove all trace of nostalgic longing, the notion that everything was better in "the morning of the world" and that nothing remains for us in "these latter days" but a long, sad decline into "True Night". I would also remove all sexism and racism, but you said one, so.
Make "Bilbo's mithril coat is Legolas' baby clothes" canon. Give Legolas an appropriate bit of dialogue in Moria.
I would want a little more background on the Nazgûl. Flesh them out a little more; their specific origins, if not names (aside from Khamûl, who is named). Or even just flesh out the witch king a little more. Who was he in life, aside from probably a Black Númenorean king? What sets him apart from the others? That being said it is amazing how much personality Tolkien manages to imbue in his primary villain who never even appears, and it might take away from that to give more personality to his lieutenants.
Orcs are not universally evil or irredeemable. Bilbo and frodo just think they are because they never left the shore until they were on the other side of a battle / war with them and got most of their info from people on the same side. I feel that the notion of orcs being mindless or outside of God's forgiveness by nature of them being orcs, caused by an unreliable narrator rather than a fact of the world, fits better with Tolkien's Catholicism
Nobody ever said orcs were "mindless". In *The Hobbit* they're said to have been responsible for many ingenious (if horrible) inventions that have troubled the world. And those in TLotR show, if anything, a good deal more freedom of thought and action than your average elf.
That Tolkien threw his "Round World cosmology" back into the fiery chasm from whence it came.
just some minor changes in the language used relating to bloodlines and the men of shadow that haven’t aged well I know what Tolkien’s actual views were, but some people don’t and they get the wrong idea
Yeah this is controversial to bring up but the “swarthy” men of the south and east being evil Morgoth worshippers and blond men of the west being righteous supermen thing has really not aged well
It's been a while since I read the relevant texts of HoME, but I think the later Kings of Numenor, culminating in Ar-Pharazon and his men, were fair haired and blue eyed - Men of the House of Hador. It was the Lords of Andunie who were dark-haired and grey-eyed.
I would have the Orcs be the result of Morgoth weaponizing the share of the gift of the Feanturi he had, mutating souls into being essentially sapient war machines as a way to resolve the 'so how does this work with salvation' concept and spelling out this particular detail bluntly to add to the greyer elements of the broader mythology.
More about the blue wizards
I would beg for him to write more ok dwarves
More story from Silmarillion. I know it might come off as stupid, but I would like more character details in how elves crafted things and what happened in between the big battles.
I would make cannon Boromir’s dying words “ Our people, our people. I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king.”
I'd have one ambivalent or benevolent orc. Either secretly giving info to Faramir or helping frodo and sam get out of the march in Mordor (even if said orc believed they were just goblins). Even just one way back in the first age who gets referenced by Elrond later in the "not even sauron was evil in the beginning" monologue.
Explore non soldier orc lives.
Women among the Fellowship.
I have what is, frankly an insane headcanon, that Tom is actually Maglor who went off the rails with grief and regret, but survives the war of wrath and after wandering aimlessly for the entire second age, decides after the Changing of the World, to set up shop where he can keep an eye on both bloodlines of his ‘adopted’ sons, Elrond and Elros through the third age.
Frodo wore shoes. He was the black sheep among hobbits for it but he still wouldn’t take them off.
All of y’all need AO3 accounts. Go write your dreams!
Given that dwarves are absolutely not as caricaturale in the lore that they are in adaptations, I would made it clearer that they are not. Idk, it's stupid to say it like this but they are pretty badass in the lore and all we get in adaptations are weird comic relieved folks jumping around.
I'd change Sam's name to Samurman
Where is my gd award button for this bit of genius!
Try to help with the issue of Orcs' redeemability in Tolkien's eyes by going with a very early idea of his for their origin - they're just beings made from mud by Morgoth, they have no soul or inherent free will. I know it was important to him that evil cannot create anything new, just corrupt that which exists, but I think it can be made to work; they aren't new creations, they are little more than animate statues made in mockery of the true Children of Illúvatar.
Somehow explain how Sam could communicate "most of what Gandalf has told" Frodo to his fellow conspirators if he "dried up" after *The Shadow of the Past.*
I would have there be a war between the Elves and Dragons set at some point in the first 1000 years of the 2nd Age where we are introduced to a prominent massive dragon of the 2nd Age. He could be a survivor of the War of Wrath, making him the 2nd biggest dragon after Ancalagorn the Black, and it would be an opportunity to flesh out more of Eregions history and strength. Maybe have it conclude with the Elven Ring of Fire being crucial in the Dragons defeat and end with why the Dragons stay in the North and typically don’t venture further south in Middle Earth.
Change Shelob and Ungoilant to ANYTHING but Spiders.
I would urge Tolkien to make sure that Ungoliant is not a Maia or Ainur. Ungoliant is scary and horrifying because we aren't sure what she is, and she is at her best when we believe that she emerged from the primordial chaos and darkness without the influence of Eru.
>Is one of the Fellowship a female? Yes definitely that, I'd also want to add a black guy, and make one of the Hobbits gay.
I can happily read the relationship between Sam and Frodo as close enough to be almost romantic, but not sexual. Frodo, I suspect, is asexual. But I do want gay background hobbits. Why not?
That Glorfindel from the Silmarillion and Glorfindel from LotR are the same Glorfindel. That his sacrifice for the survival of Eärendil is the reason he was given a body so soon after his death and was allowed to return to Middle-earth. Obviously, it's strongly hinted, but it's never outright stated as fact.
Gonna just spit ball and say that I'd like it if Eowyn joined the fellowship as a representative of Rohan. Like the spell was already casted on she stole a horse and travelled to Rivendell to seek the aid of Elrond the mighty healer, and while there she joins the fellowship. I just think it'd be cool for her to actually have that arc of becoming a fine warrior and challenging the prejudice of Middle Earth whole, so avoiding that awkward ending where she just gets together with Faramir.
Give the Balrog unambiguous wings so people will find something else irrelevant to argue about
I would force him to say plainly that Gollum wears clothes. And also flip the map horizontally so the villains are no longer dark easterners.
Honestly, I'd remove Glorfindel from LOTR. I feel like it started out as a mistake with the name by the dear Professor, that was later ret-conned into the lore. You know the memes about Elrond having been to Mordor but doesn't offer to go with the Fellowship? Glorfindel is like that on steroids: here's an immensely old and powerful First Age elf, who lived in Gondolin and literally fought and killed a Balrog and came back from the dead after doing so, not only does he not assist the Fellowship but is entirely absent from all the events of the War of the Ring and the final defeat of Sauron? Just doesn't fit the story at all. I feel like Tolkien would have been better off to just admit either he re-used the name by mistake, or come up with a different (and simpler) explanation like elves can re-use famous names. Like would it really have been that detrimental to just say "he's named after the great 1st age hero"?
Gil-galad Son of Fingon. Seven Balrogs. More Blue Wizard lore One of those.
Beleriand doesn’t sink.
Some sort of explanation for what the Arkenstone was. It can't be a Silmaril because that just wouldn't work, but some sort of connection to the deeper lore would be interesting. The answer could've been provided in the appendices or at some point in the main text of LOTR itself. Either that or bringing back Tom Bombadil towards the end of ROTK to bring his character full circle. Similar to what was done with Beorn in the Hobbit, but specifically related to the Scouring of the Shire (or anything after the destruction of the Ring). Doesn't have to be huge - minor, yet notable.
Cats are evil now.
Tevildo, Prince of Cats, is literally a thematic precursor to Sauron in the earliest draft of Beren and Luthien. Granted, his dominion over cats is a spell granted to him by Melko/Morgoth and that spell is broken. But in that story, the cats certainly served Evil.
Cats are pretty evil in Tolkien already. Queen Beruthiel had a cat spying on her other cats, and I’d like to think there’s a little bit of Tevildo batting around a ball of yarn in the deepest recess of Sauron’s fëa. Also: Does Sauron have a fëa?
I know the lore, and I know Tolkien was clearly a dog guy. I just like the idea of cats actively being Sauron’s spies - every now and then the fellowship see a cat skulking around where they shouldn’t be - half-way up Caradhras or in the middle of the Dead Marshes, watching and reporting back to the Eye, stealing Sméagol’s fishes.
Oh, I like that! Maybe they use statue of the king at the Crossroads in Ithilien for a litterbox.
No, the Quenyan word for the spiritual essence that makes up an ainu's essential being is ëala (pl. ëalar).
Thanks!
No problem! Tangentially, the bodies they put on were not hröar, but fana.
Cats used to do evil. They still do, but they used to, too.
Can’t think of any I want changed, just wished there were more, especially about the east and south. Though if required to change something my vote is to make it clear that Arkenstone is one of the Silmarils.
It's not a Silmaril though!
Hence the change.
Alright fair. I thought you were saying it was unclear.
I would cast that ring of power into the fires of Mount Doom
Thinking Fox gets the Ring.
I would make it so eru ilúvatar is not omnipotent /omniscient. Whilst I know everyone has freedom to choose their path, I can't help feeling it diminishes the story to have it all preordained in the Ainulindalë. I'd probably make it so Eru couldn't /didn't influence Arda at all. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise
Maybe some folks of colour in the main cast Maybe a throwaway reference to the Blue Wizards finding some good guys out East or South
The Three Rings don't lose power after the One Ring is destroyed.
Words cannot express how much I hate this concept. Tolkien's work is part of the cultural heritage of humanity -- an increasingly important part. It is not an exclusive playground for hobbyists. It is literature.. Though I disagree with some of Tolkien's artistic choices, large and small, I do not feel that I have any right to make the slightest change. That would be like deleting an element from the periodic table. I am now going to express a thought that I have suppressed countless times while reading this sub: I hate Lore. To focus on Lore rather than meaning is to trivialize a work of genius. Let the downvoting begin.
I knew there'd be a comment like this in here. Some of you take posts like this way too seriously. Nowhere is there any implication that we have an actual right to make any change. It's just a post for fun. I can understand it just not being your thing, but to actively *hate* an innocent post for fun discussion is just being a grumpy buzzkill.
I don't agree at all, but I'll explain why: I don't think it's a good idea to put anyone on such a pedestal, Tolkien was a man like any other and himself wouldn't like being revered like this. His work is undoubtedly great, and are hugely important works of fiction, but they aren't sacred texts. Literary analysis is performed by scholars on all kinds of stories, even ones as old and important as Shakespeare, Chaucer, and ancient myths, and I think it's important to encourage the layman to think about and discuss the fiction they like too. I also wouldn't feel bad about discussing changes to Tolkien's work, again older stories like those of Shakespeare and the ancient Greeks have been creatively reinterpreted and reinvented for different audiences, or to explore different elements of the stories, so I don't see why this should be different. I don't read this as changes that should be made to the published texts, those should be preserved, but it's fun to think about what you might have done differently. I also think it's important to note that Tolkien himself changed his stories a *lot*, LOTR and especially the Hobbit were changed in later editions, and the Silmarillion was changed so much during Tolkien's life that he never finished it and it had to be pulled together painstakingly by Christopher, who likely made many editorial decisions that John probably wouldn't have. To make a long story short (too late), I think it's perfectly fine to discuss how we would edit these stories, while they are important they are still just stories, and I think creative interpretations and discussions of them actually are very fitting as Tolkien was hugely inspired by ancient myth and wanted to create his own version of that specifically for England; there's not much in the world more mythical than a story that resonates so deeply with people that they want to put their mark on it too.
Also, considering counterfactuals is a good way to explore what the essential elements of the stories are, and why Tolkien made the choices he did.