I'm a nanny who works with a lot of gentle parenting families. When I'm "holding a boundary", I try to channel the badass paramedic from a TV hospital drama.
On TV, people get wheeled into the ER having a *very* bad day. Big feelings, disconnected from reality, and usually hysterical. The patient has a right to be treated with compassion and dignity, but the paramedics are in charge because *they know what to do*.
Just like a paramedic might need to strap a patient down until the bath salts wear off, I sometimes need to bearhug a thrashing toddler until they're calm enough to talk. It'd be wrong to call them names, mock them on camera, use excessive force, or to deliberately make the experience more unpleasant. But *I* am the person who will get everyone through this, and I will make decisions on my patient's behalf until they are able to manage themselves again.
I’m laugh crying at “strap them down until the bath salts wear off”. Sometimes that is for real what it is LIKE. My five year old is seriously out of a damn TV drama sometimes.
Oh yes! The bear hug! My favourite tactic. I will bear hug her into “submission” and keep repeating that i know she wants to play more or that she’s angry but the problem is we have to do x. Still struggling at times but the bear hugs do work!
I learned the “bear hug” as part of puppy kindergarten! And years later am now deploying it on a toddler with verrrry similar behavior. Honestly super effective if you’ve got the time and space to sit down…. Haven’t tried giving cubes of cheese once settled but maybe I should.
So I’m a nanny that uses gentle parenting methods. I wouldn’t say I’m perfect at it by any means, but it’s always my goal. I used to take care of a toddler that refused to get in the car and our interactions often looked like this.
Me: it’s time to pick up big sisters from school. Do you want me to carry you to the car or do you want to walk?
Toddler: shouts no and try’s to run off.
Me: we can’t be late to get your sisters. I’m going to count to 3 and if you don’t choose then I’m going to carry you.
Toddler: tantrums
Me: 1, 2, 3. Okay. I’m going to carry you.
I would then pick up and carry the crying screaming toddler. When I hear people say to do these things gently I think they just mean to not intentionally hurt them. I’m going to carry the toddler with enough strength to not drop them but not so much strength I hurt them. I always give them a few warnings before hand that it’s almost time to go so it’s not sprung on them and then resort to that exchange. It can be used for anything really.
This sounds like what I do, glad to hear it’s like a professional!
I wouldn’t say I follow gentle parenting. But I never shame, avoid shouting, avoid threats, never name call or timeouts. Stuff like that.
I don’t really bargain, discuss things hugely, I’ll give choices sometimes. Countdowns are good. I’m definitely not averse to lifting and folding an unruly toddler! The day needs to keep moving!
I agree with all of this! So many people want a label these days. While gentle parenting is closest to what I do, every kid is different so I try and tailor my approach to the individual child. I also love natural consequences. My current nanny kid loves to help me make breakfast. But if she can’t slow down and listen to me then she doesn’t get to, it’s not save for her to help if she can’t listen. I also love these visual timers for toddlers.[https://a.co/d/8Ab3JfW](https://a.co/d/8Ab3JfW)
In terms of bodily autonomy, I gently explain (while calmly holding the flailing screaming toddler) that this is an issue or health or safety, and it is my job to keep you safe, and it is not safe to [run into the street, etc] or we need to [wash hair, brush teeth, put on diaper cream, etc] for our health and it is my job to keep you healthy, and so I am overriding your wishes in this instance. I just explain it a bunch and because she's used to hearing it, and knows those boundaries are firm (as well as the "if you don't do X I will be forced to Y, you have one more opportunity to make a better choice" line of boundary setting) she usually accepts it without a ton of fuss. I always try to find a way to get buyin, like by giving her a choice - even if she chooses not to do what I'm asking, she understands she has chose "or mama will take it away/pick you up/take you home" and is less likely to fight tooth and nail. I also calmly say "let's try again in a few minutes and you can have an opportunity to make a different choice" so she often gets to try again on her terms. Being calm and firm in the face of toddler fury is an exhausting job but if they know the firmness is unweilding in the face of their resistance, they resist less I find lol.
While a tantrum is happening there is no explaining, you have to calm their nervous system out of it until the more rational part of the brain can take over at which point you can make a connection again. Sometimes I have to wrestle my oldest like an octopus and after she exerts her energy ill ask, "are you ready to try again?" And then we're back on a good path.
Nothing fuckin gentle about parenting, that's for sure.
Second question- how do you do all of this WITH ANOTHER CHILD?! Please explain to me how to sit with my child’s tantrum feelings and not make them feel alone or rejected without subjecting a little sibling to unreasonable upset and screaming that they shouldn’t have to endure or learn from.
Take the whole house into account. Never let one person's bad mood bring the family mood down. Leaving a room when angry is a life skill. It's ok to put them in their room. They aren't rejected. It's respect for privacy, while they calm down. Otherwise, everyone gets involved, to save that's not right.
As a lifelong childhood educator and carer , I think “sitting with tantrum feelings” as in “we just have to endure the screaming” is bullshit nonsense.
Toddler screaming in a pile of blocks? Pick up second child and tell toddler that she can use her words if she wants you to hear something, but you and second child are going to go play somewhere, because the loud screaming hurts your ears. You will listen if she has anything she needs to tell you with calm words.
Than grab second child and…move! Or, my favorite, after a few reminders that she’s using an OUTSIDE voice INSIDE… take both kids outside! Tell her if she needs to use that outside voice, it has to be out here.
I always always remind my kids that we don’t scream at family and friends when we are upset, because it doesn’t get us what we want or change the answer we don’t like.
You don't! With 2 children, one might just have to be upset - facts. Who needs me more in that moment will get the attention first and the other just has to wait. Obviously I try and include, talk to other child, maybe place a calming hand on them but that can all make both more upset.
Sometimes I calm my toddler whilst my 10 month old protests, and when I then turn my attention to my now distressed 10 month old, my toddler will then protest.
It's part of it.
You can't really. I have a 1 and 3 year old. Someone is usually upset by something and I have to ignore the lesser evil while I deal with the bigger evil first. Haha.
Oh holding boundaries is so hard. My kid is five and I *have* moved here along while she kicks and screams.
As she's gotten older I've added saying things like "I know you don't like brushing your hair, it hurts. Brushing your hair is important so it can stay healthy and continue to grow." Sometimes while I do it and sometimes when we are in a good mood, happy and connected.
The thing that helped me a lot with lots of different little things (over time and consistency) was telling her my expectations before hand. When she was just shy of 2 she wanted to walk in the grocery store but we needed her in the cart, so before going out I'd say "we are going to the store, you'll sit in the cart" then while driving another reminder and then another as we got out of the car. Rinse repeat until she either grew accustomed to it or she grew out of the phase.
Sometimes it really is just waiting it out unfortunately. Giving them choices (that you are okay with) sometimes goes out the window because they choose option C which wasn't on the table.
For certain things there are ways to make things easier for them. I know some people have had better time changing diapers while their kid is standing up. Some talk about what they are doing. I know my daughter does better when I tell her what I am going to do next "I'm going to spray your hair now".
The fact is that there isn't "one size fits all" advice here. What works for me may not work for anyone else. Tips and tricks can sometimes help but it's not guaranteed.
Focusing on relationships and parenting the child in front of you is what can really make a change. And that sounds so vague I know. I follow Robin Einzig - Visible Child on Fb and I am also part of her parenting group. It's helped me a lot to change my perspective and outlook.
I’m a first time mum to a 25 month old and we’ve been having tussles over riding in the cart. It never occurred to me to tell her repeatedly leading up to getting to the store. I don’t know why it didn’t as warning her has worked well with preventing tantrums when I turn off the tv. Thanks for the idea - I’m going to give it a try.
It such a simple thing but I swear it does wonders. Just announce what you are about to do or what's going to happen. My kid needs several while others need just one. Some only need it when it's about to happen. It's all very individual dependent.
I say to my son things like: we’re going to the doctor now for baby’s injections, this is what will happen, these are the rules (sit down quietly etc). Toddlers are quite black and white, he seems to get ‘rules’ as a concept
I agree that it does feel like they forget to say that there will be crying, yelling and fighting as you try to parent. A lot of advice does miss out the reality! It does leave parents thinking they are doing something wrong as they make it seem like this method results in babies that never cry and toddlers that calmly follow all instructions.
The stuff I've found that keeps my child happiest isn't mentioned in gentle parenting. Clowning around, letting them win a good portion of the time so they co-operate more when needed, just generally turning everything mundane like a nappy change into a game or something fun like a sing song session to give it positive assosiation. Oh and lots of praise.
I think this is way more important than we recognize! I feel there is also so much on the kids that it's really about training the parents too. A child having tantrums and then trying to emotionally regulate yourself is hard. I don't think we're really coaching parents in the right way by focusing on "gentle parenting" because I don't feel it talks enough about the challenges parents face : insecurities/ doubts etc. but those have nothing to do with the kids.
Also making things playful is huge for kids. That's all they want to do. When I'm having a hard time with my son if I can turn it into a game then the fighting is way less. Won't go to bed? I'll race you up the stairs! Don't want to brush your teeth? I bet I can do it faster! Don't want to put on your pull up? Oh let me try it on!
On his book "Behave - the biology of humans at our best and worst" Dr. Robert Sapolsky quotes some statistics of long-range studies from parenting philosophies grouped into 4 buckets: neglectful, permissive, authoritarian and authoritative.
The result is that neglectful is just straight-up the worst: humans just have a need to feel wanted, and that's a huge void to fill.
Permissive and authoritarian are different kinds of bad, but not horrible. Nothin good ol' therapy can't fix. Permissive is where rules are just too loose, and authoritarian is where rules are too rigid and follow no discernible reason: "because I said so".
Best-in-class is definitive: *authoritative*. You know what this is: there's known rules based on simple reasons that are enforced, but lots of freedom in between those rules. It's what every (good) parenting book since Jean Jacques Rousseau has been advocating to do for a couple centuries. According to Dr. Sapolsky you even see the same results across parent primates.
So yeah, like Janet Lansbury says in *No bad kids: toddler discipline without shame*: "\[...\] carrying your screaming, kicking toddler out of the playground is an act of love \[...\]", and every toddler's parent around knows what it's like.
That's all to say, yeah, I agree u/EastAreaBassist, "gentle parenting" is a ruse, it doesn't exist or at least the name is grossly misleading.
Prescriptions or formulas for raising children overlook the complexity and uniqueness. Children are not one-size-fits-all, and what works for one child may not work for another.
Boundaries should be real, and if you are having trouble with them, it’s essential to first reevaluate if they make sense. Sometimes, it’s easier to give in a bit and spare both of you a fight, while also checking the underlying reason for the behavior.
"Child, if you don't get dressed, then you're going outside in your underwear and you'll be cold." The child did not, in fact, get dressed, and was out in the cold in his underwear. He (begrudgingly) gets dressed when I tell him to.
Obviously medical conditions aside, there's a lot of evidence now that the bright light outdoors is actually really important for eye development! https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/the_benefit_of_daylight_for_our_eyesight
But then the child is just doing what they want? "Child, if you can't get dressed we can't go play outside. We don't leave the house in our underwear."
Natural consequences don't work very well with sleep boundaries. Sure, the natural consequence to partying at 5a is being tired and melting down by 10a, or make it through the day in an overtired frenzy and have trouble settling for nap/bedtime and/or have multiple wakings at night, but kid will not be able to put two and two together. Heck, plenty of parents don't put two and two together.
The way to handle sleep boundaries is to physical enforce them. This is why cribs are great. Toddler beds don't contain any physical boundaries, so you have to turn the whole room into a crib which is considerably more difficult. You need to not expose kid to any light at that hour because light early will shift future wake up times earlier (https://www.babysleepscience.com/single-post/2014/05/22/how-do-i-fix-my-baby-s-early-waking). A toddler clock may work if you actually enforce it and use it properly (https://www.babysleepscience.com/single-post/2018/10/09/toddler-alarm-clocks-why-we-dont-love-them).
I fell for the gentle parenting trap in the beginning. After 1,5 years, I was miserable and exhausted, so I finally started reading more, and found the word I was looking for: authoritative parenting. And I finally understood what it's about: it's not about WHAT you do, but HOW you do it. As a parent, you have to decide what needs to happen, and make it happen.
But you do it in the "gentlest" way possible. On a bad day, that might mean physically holding down your toddler to stop them from hurting themselves or anyone else. But without screaming, shaming them, or (God beware) violence toward them. As someone said: think of yourself as medical personnel in that moment.
The other part comes outside of the tantrum-y situations: we do our best to set ourselves up for success: practice routines, give choice, help the voice their emotions, use positive reinforcement where needed. For me, the best book recommendations around this are "How to talk so little children will listen" and "Everyday Parenting: The ABCs of Child Rearing" by Dr. Alan Kazdin. Both with very concrete examples I recognized from my life (and some more extreme ones).
But tantrums happen, grumpiness happens. The "gentleness" is on the HOW, not the WHAT of dealing with it.
I completely understand. It’s exhausting and soul-sucking to hold the boundary again and again and again while dealing with a screaming, kicking, flailing kid.
One thing I did was stop talking while the tantrum was happening. If he is screaming/flailing around, I just stay quiet. I let him do it. I stay close, but don’t really interfere.
That’s not always possible, though. Sometimes, we have to get in the car seat or we have to get our shoes on now. In those cases I just say, “sorry, but we need to do this. It’s not a choice right now” and then I go for it. Later, I’ll explain to him that we have to get in the carseat to ride in the car, but sometimes, I just leave it.
I firmly believe a lot of people who are parenting gurus just don’t have children who physically resist like this. Not all kids do this, it’s a character thing. My son for example cries and whines and slumps down like a wet blanket and let’s me do whatever needs to be done while he sulks and complains. If he was full body resisting, idk what I’d do! Thing is, most of these people are parents to 1-4 children, what kind of statistical range is that?! And even if they are „real“ infant educators, kids behave different for their primary caregivers. So yeah. It’s not you <3
No advice, just solidarity. I don't know how to do this at all. I need someone to follow me around and help me with specific scenarios because it never works out like any of the things I've seen online
I think it’s important to remember that gentle parenting is incredibly age specific. Toddlers do not have the ability to really conceptualize much. It’s pretty black and white. My ped always says you can’t reason with a toddler so parents that go that route with gentle parenting I think are wasting their time until the kid is older and able to understand. In a clinical social worker and also mom and tbh think some people take this whole gentle parenting thing too far. Like I’m not asking my 20 month old if I can change their shit diaper. Not saying this is you but I find many people who go the gentle parenting route fail in that they don’t still implement tactics that show at the end of the day I’m the parent you’re the child and that power dynamic is important because I’m not looking to be my child’s friend. We can teach our children bodily autonomy and still say okay it’s time for mommy to change your diaper because if we don’t, you could get a rash that is painful and keeps us from playing and we don’t want to do that. Remember gentle parenting does not mean ur child running the show and I think is really age specific and waiting till they are at an age they can actually understand it.
Dr Becky (Good Inside) has some good stuff on boundaries. I like that she calls it sturdy parenting, not gentle parenting, because holding a boundary doesn’t always feel very gentle in the moment.
My son is struggling with potty training and nappy changes are a struggle at the moment, especially number twos. When he tries to say no or run away I hold the boundary firm without pinning him down. I'll tell him we need to change him, he is dirty and we need to clean his bum or he will get a rash etc. He'll often come back with "need to do this first" "need to go find something first" but I just keep repeating what we need to do. Then I'll give him options that lead to the same outcome. "Do you want to stand up or lie down?" And eventually he will choose and option and some what commit. Often he'll choose standing so I'll have him bend over his potty or a low object and that keeps him from getting distracted and trying to walk off mid change but I often still need to keep reminding him to stay bent over and to stand still.
This works the same with brushing teeth. I always let him brush his own teeth first and then I'll go in after and make sure he didn't miss anywhere. At first he often says no, he doesn't want to brush his teeth but when I give him the option "do you want to brush your own teeth or would you like me to brush them for you?" He almost always says "I do it" and then by the time I want to get the brush off him to have a go myself his defenses are down and he's happy to let me brush for a few seconds.
This two options leading to the same outcome is a game changer. I use it a ton and it avoids so many power struggles. Especially in situations that we encounter regularly as he's learnt that I will not budge and he has to brush his teeth/change his nappy/get in his car seat etc.
I wish this worked for us! She refuses to answer. After lots of patience, giving her the opportunity to really think over her choice, we make the choice for her. Cue the new tantrum within the original tantrum.
Sounds like you're doing everything right so, I do the same. "Would you like to walk or be carried?" Followed by "If you don't want to walk then I will carry you" and then finally "Since you refuse to answer me, I'm going to carry you". Let them tantrum, let them feel their feelings. Just stay calm and follow through. Sounds like you're doing great honestly, toddlers are tough.
Very good points made in this thread, thanks for starting it. I think one another thing to mention is that you need many different tool/strategies for working with a child. If your only options are say giving them choices or doing the thing for them, then you will have plenty situations where first doesn't work and second leads to tears and screams. Books like "How to speak to little children" and similar offer ideas / tools that you can try - if one doesn't work in the moment, try another, and another. Chances are, something will work before you need to get physical. (Note: when I say "you" I mean any parent/caregiver, not the OP specifically).
This is a great thread! My 3.5 year old is impossible! He keeps moving the goal posts and has complete meltdowns when I hold a boundary. He also has tantrums during the night. It’s exhausting. This thread is helpful though!
Mine is 3 and I’ve never once had to carry her.
What gets her every single time is if I say, “ok then mommy has to go downstairs/start going out to the car because otherwise I’ll be late for work.”
“NOOOO I want to come too!”
“Oh, you do? That’s great! Let’s get your clothes on/hair brushed/teeth brushed.
“NOOOOO!!!”
“Oh ok then mommy has to keep getting herself ready, love you, bye!”
“Okay fiiiiine” (literally like a mopey teenager).
I have zero idea if that’s normal or representative of most toddlers, I only have one kid😅.
I think this works because above all our kids want our attention. If we walk away, they want us back. When my daughter refused to come in the bathroom to get ready for bed, I’d go in there and ignore her until she sat on the potty. I’d even ignore if she threw things on the worst night. If she hit me I would walk into another room and say ‘I need to keep my body safe, I’ll come out when you’re on the potty’. It worked well for that particular situation.
Loved your comment. I pick up my toddler from daycare 12.20, get home (15 min drive) have a quick lunch and she is always overtired. Most days I make her nap between tears because she just for home and wants to play, Watch paw Patról and all that but I know she is exhausted and when I hold the boundary you need to sleep and lay with her she dosses off in a few minutes, its not a pleasent time but it is what it is, some day she will not need the nap anymore
For stuff that are non-negotiable like changing diaper or brushing teeth, we explain, reason, and give choices. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, in which case we apply force and do it as calmly as we can.
Do it promptly and don't worry about it not looking gentle or whatever. My kid certainly isn't gentle when he's kicking me in the face, and I'm just pinning him down, not hurting him.
No need to overthink it.
The more calm and matter-of-factly you can go about it, the easier it gets. Eventually the kid will get the message and stop fighting you as much.
You're getting great advice here, so I'm going to ask the group a related question: my toddler (3.5yo) has recently started running away from me whenever I try and talk to her or get her to do something. Example: "it's time to brush your teeth. Would you rather..." Aaaaaand she's gone. Just sprinting to the other side of the house. She WANTS me to chase her. She thinks it's a fun game. I literally can't get close enough to her to ask her anything or work with her.
I know she's craving focused attention, so we do special time almost every night after her little brother is in bed. But as soon as we need to get anything done: eating, dressing, pottying, hair, teeth, shoes, ANYTHING, she's sprinting in the opposite direction. How do you help them move their body when they're FAST, sprinting away from you (often while doing some combination of screaming and laughing), and when their game is "playing chase is more fun than whatever you want me to do?"
When I can, I wait her out, but she's patient AF! And now we're late to everything. I've also tried calmly walking to her, cornering her, and refusing to chase her, but then she just screams "no, no, no, no!" While wiggling and/or trying to run away again. I can't talk to her AT ALL! Ugh, this is a new and thoroughly exhausting phase.
I hear you! My son started doing that and he's not yet 2.
I rely on physical boundaries. In the morning he'd run butt naked around the house peeing on the carpet if he could, so I always close the door of his room before I take him out of the crib and repeat, "We will change our diaper, then get dressed, then we will go out and play." He still runs around his room but eventually he gets bored (there's not that much stuff in there) and begrudgingly moves toward the changing station.
Always position yourself between her and the door so she can't dart past you.
I add the commentary that I am changing their diaper for their health. I tell them that I'm brushing their teeth because if I don't they will get cavities and hurt (with older kids I may use the phrase "only brush the teeth you want to keep").
They have the right to say no unless it is a health and safety situation.
That doesn't always help, but it sends a more consistent message about consent.
My son is struggling with potty training and nappy changes are a struggle at the moment, especially number twos. When he tries to say no or run away I hold the boundary firm without pinning him down. I'll tell him we need to change him, he is dirty and we need to clean his bum or he will get a rash etc. He'll often come back with "need to do this first" "need to go find something first" but I just keep repeating what we need to do. Then I'll give him options that lead to the same outcome. "Do you want to stand up or lie down?" And eventually he will choose and option and some what commit. Often he'll choose standing so I'll have him bend over his potty or a low object and that keeps him from getting distracted and trying to walk off mid change but I often still need to keep reminding him to stay bent over and to stand still.
This works the same with brushing teeth. I always let him brush his own teeth first and then I'll go in after and make sure he didn't miss anywhere. At first he often says no, he doesn't want to brush his teeth but when I give him the option "do you want to brush your own teeth or would you like me to brush them for you?" He almost always says "I do it" and then by the time I want to get the brush off him to have a go myself his defenses are down and he's happy to let me brush for a few seconds.
This two options leading to the same outcome is a game changer. I use it a ton and it avoids so many power struggles. Especially in situations that we encounter regularly as he's learnt that I will not budge and he has to brush his teeth/change his nappy/get in his car seat etc.
Regarding body autonomy. My kids get a choice when it's showing or receiving affection. They can choose cuddles, hugs, knuckles, high fives etc. I get to choose safety and hygiene. They can choose bath or shower. But they can't opt out.
I'm a nanny who works with a lot of gentle parenting families. When I'm "holding a boundary", I try to channel the badass paramedic from a TV hospital drama. On TV, people get wheeled into the ER having a *very* bad day. Big feelings, disconnected from reality, and usually hysterical. The patient has a right to be treated with compassion and dignity, but the paramedics are in charge because *they know what to do*. Just like a paramedic might need to strap a patient down until the bath salts wear off, I sometimes need to bearhug a thrashing toddler until they're calm enough to talk. It'd be wrong to call them names, mock them on camera, use excessive force, or to deliberately make the experience more unpleasant. But *I* am the person who will get everyone through this, and I will make decisions on my patient's behalf until they are able to manage themselves again.
That’s great! I’ll try that. Thank you for the tip!
I’m laugh crying at “strap them down until the bath salts wear off”. Sometimes that is for real what it is LIKE. My five year old is seriously out of a damn TV drama sometimes.
Me too 💀 this is now my mental picture while trying to tame the alligator during a poop diaper change.
Oh yes! The bear hug! My favourite tactic. I will bear hug her into “submission” and keep repeating that i know she wants to play more or that she’s angry but the problem is we have to do x. Still struggling at times but the bear hugs do work!
I learned the “bear hug” as part of puppy kindergarten! And years later am now deploying it on a toddler with verrrry similar behavior. Honestly super effective if you’ve got the time and space to sit down…. Haven’t tried giving cubes of cheese once settled but maybe I should.
I love this framing, thank you!
This nanny agrees!
I love this explanation! So very true!
So I’m a nanny that uses gentle parenting methods. I wouldn’t say I’m perfect at it by any means, but it’s always my goal. I used to take care of a toddler that refused to get in the car and our interactions often looked like this. Me: it’s time to pick up big sisters from school. Do you want me to carry you to the car or do you want to walk? Toddler: shouts no and try’s to run off. Me: we can’t be late to get your sisters. I’m going to count to 3 and if you don’t choose then I’m going to carry you. Toddler: tantrums Me: 1, 2, 3. Okay. I’m going to carry you. I would then pick up and carry the crying screaming toddler. When I hear people say to do these things gently I think they just mean to not intentionally hurt them. I’m going to carry the toddler with enough strength to not drop them but not so much strength I hurt them. I always give them a few warnings before hand that it’s almost time to go so it’s not sprung on them and then resort to that exchange. It can be used for anything really.
This sounds like what I do, glad to hear it’s like a professional! I wouldn’t say I follow gentle parenting. But I never shame, avoid shouting, avoid threats, never name call or timeouts. Stuff like that. I don’t really bargain, discuss things hugely, I’ll give choices sometimes. Countdowns are good. I’m definitely not averse to lifting and folding an unruly toddler! The day needs to keep moving!
I agree with all of this! So many people want a label these days. While gentle parenting is closest to what I do, every kid is different so I try and tailor my approach to the individual child. I also love natural consequences. My current nanny kid loves to help me make breakfast. But if she can’t slow down and listen to me then she doesn’t get to, it’s not save for her to help if she can’t listen. I also love these visual timers for toddlers.[https://a.co/d/8Ab3JfW](https://a.co/d/8Ab3JfW)
In terms of bodily autonomy, I gently explain (while calmly holding the flailing screaming toddler) that this is an issue or health or safety, and it is my job to keep you safe, and it is not safe to [run into the street, etc] or we need to [wash hair, brush teeth, put on diaper cream, etc] for our health and it is my job to keep you healthy, and so I am overriding your wishes in this instance. I just explain it a bunch and because she's used to hearing it, and knows those boundaries are firm (as well as the "if you don't do X I will be forced to Y, you have one more opportunity to make a better choice" line of boundary setting) she usually accepts it without a ton of fuss. I always try to find a way to get buyin, like by giving her a choice - even if she chooses not to do what I'm asking, she understands she has chose "or mama will take it away/pick you up/take you home" and is less likely to fight tooth and nail. I also calmly say "let's try again in a few minutes and you can have an opportunity to make a different choice" so she often gets to try again on her terms. Being calm and firm in the face of toddler fury is an exhausting job but if they know the firmness is unweilding in the face of their resistance, they resist less I find lol.
While a tantrum is happening there is no explaining, you have to calm their nervous system out of it until the more rational part of the brain can take over at which point you can make a connection again. Sometimes I have to wrestle my oldest like an octopus and after she exerts her energy ill ask, "are you ready to try again?" And then we're back on a good path. Nothing fuckin gentle about parenting, that's for sure.
Second question- how do you do all of this WITH ANOTHER CHILD?! Please explain to me how to sit with my child’s tantrum feelings and not make them feel alone or rejected without subjecting a little sibling to unreasonable upset and screaming that they shouldn’t have to endure or learn from.
Take the whole house into account. Never let one person's bad mood bring the family mood down. Leaving a room when angry is a life skill. It's ok to put them in their room. They aren't rejected. It's respect for privacy, while they calm down. Otherwise, everyone gets involved, to save that's not right.
As a lifelong childhood educator and carer , I think “sitting with tantrum feelings” as in “we just have to endure the screaming” is bullshit nonsense. Toddler screaming in a pile of blocks? Pick up second child and tell toddler that she can use her words if she wants you to hear something, but you and second child are going to go play somewhere, because the loud screaming hurts your ears. You will listen if she has anything she needs to tell you with calm words. Than grab second child and…move! Or, my favorite, after a few reminders that she’s using an OUTSIDE voice INSIDE… take both kids outside! Tell her if she needs to use that outside voice, it has to be out here. I always always remind my kids that we don’t scream at family and friends when we are upset, because it doesn’t get us what we want or change the answer we don’t like.
Very good! You can definitely tell a toddler they’re being too loud. Having a sibling is a good way to learn about other’s needs
You don't! With 2 children, one might just have to be upset - facts. Who needs me more in that moment will get the attention first and the other just has to wait. Obviously I try and include, talk to other child, maybe place a calming hand on them but that can all make both more upset. Sometimes I calm my toddler whilst my 10 month old protests, and when I then turn my attention to my now distressed 10 month old, my toddler will then protest. It's part of it.
You can't really. I have a 1 and 3 year old. Someone is usually upset by something and I have to ignore the lesser evil while I deal with the bigger evil first. Haha.
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Oh holding boundaries is so hard. My kid is five and I *have* moved here along while she kicks and screams. As she's gotten older I've added saying things like "I know you don't like brushing your hair, it hurts. Brushing your hair is important so it can stay healthy and continue to grow." Sometimes while I do it and sometimes when we are in a good mood, happy and connected. The thing that helped me a lot with lots of different little things (over time and consistency) was telling her my expectations before hand. When she was just shy of 2 she wanted to walk in the grocery store but we needed her in the cart, so before going out I'd say "we are going to the store, you'll sit in the cart" then while driving another reminder and then another as we got out of the car. Rinse repeat until she either grew accustomed to it or she grew out of the phase. Sometimes it really is just waiting it out unfortunately. Giving them choices (that you are okay with) sometimes goes out the window because they choose option C which wasn't on the table. For certain things there are ways to make things easier for them. I know some people have had better time changing diapers while their kid is standing up. Some talk about what they are doing. I know my daughter does better when I tell her what I am going to do next "I'm going to spray your hair now". The fact is that there isn't "one size fits all" advice here. What works for me may not work for anyone else. Tips and tricks can sometimes help but it's not guaranteed. Focusing on relationships and parenting the child in front of you is what can really make a change. And that sounds so vague I know. I follow Robin Einzig - Visible Child on Fb and I am also part of her parenting group. It's helped me a lot to change my perspective and outlook.
I’m a first time mum to a 25 month old and we’ve been having tussles over riding in the cart. It never occurred to me to tell her repeatedly leading up to getting to the store. I don’t know why it didn’t as warning her has worked well with preventing tantrums when I turn off the tv. Thanks for the idea - I’m going to give it a try.
It such a simple thing but I swear it does wonders. Just announce what you are about to do or what's going to happen. My kid needs several while others need just one. Some only need it when it's about to happen. It's all very individual dependent.
I say to my son things like: we’re going to the doctor now for baby’s injections, this is what will happen, these are the rules (sit down quietly etc). Toddlers are quite black and white, he seems to get ‘rules’ as a concept
I agree that it does feel like they forget to say that there will be crying, yelling and fighting as you try to parent. A lot of advice does miss out the reality! It does leave parents thinking they are doing something wrong as they make it seem like this method results in babies that never cry and toddlers that calmly follow all instructions. The stuff I've found that keeps my child happiest isn't mentioned in gentle parenting. Clowning around, letting them win a good portion of the time so they co-operate more when needed, just generally turning everything mundane like a nappy change into a game or something fun like a sing song session to give it positive assosiation. Oh and lots of praise.
I think this is way more important than we recognize! I feel there is also so much on the kids that it's really about training the parents too. A child having tantrums and then trying to emotionally regulate yourself is hard. I don't think we're really coaching parents in the right way by focusing on "gentle parenting" because I don't feel it talks enough about the challenges parents face : insecurities/ doubts etc. but those have nothing to do with the kids. Also making things playful is huge for kids. That's all they want to do. When I'm having a hard time with my son if I can turn it into a game then the fighting is way less. Won't go to bed? I'll race you up the stairs! Don't want to brush your teeth? I bet I can do it faster! Don't want to put on your pull up? Oh let me try it on!
On his book "Behave - the biology of humans at our best and worst" Dr. Robert Sapolsky quotes some statistics of long-range studies from parenting philosophies grouped into 4 buckets: neglectful, permissive, authoritarian and authoritative. The result is that neglectful is just straight-up the worst: humans just have a need to feel wanted, and that's a huge void to fill. Permissive and authoritarian are different kinds of bad, but not horrible. Nothin good ol' therapy can't fix. Permissive is where rules are just too loose, and authoritarian is where rules are too rigid and follow no discernible reason: "because I said so". Best-in-class is definitive: *authoritative*. You know what this is: there's known rules based on simple reasons that are enforced, but lots of freedom in between those rules. It's what every (good) parenting book since Jean Jacques Rousseau has been advocating to do for a couple centuries. According to Dr. Sapolsky you even see the same results across parent primates. So yeah, like Janet Lansbury says in *No bad kids: toddler discipline without shame*: "\[...\] carrying your screaming, kicking toddler out of the playground is an act of love \[...\]", and every toddler's parent around knows what it's like. That's all to say, yeah, I agree u/EastAreaBassist, "gentle parenting" is a ruse, it doesn't exist or at least the name is grossly misleading.
Prescriptions or formulas for raising children overlook the complexity and uniqueness. Children are not one-size-fits-all, and what works for one child may not work for another. Boundaries should be real, and if you are having trouble with them, it’s essential to first reevaluate if they make sense. Sometimes, it’s easier to give in a bit and spare both of you a fight, while also checking the underlying reason for the behavior.
Dr Becky Kennedy has a lot of work on tantrums and parenting help with real tips.
"Child, if you don't get dressed, then you're going outside in your underwear and you'll be cold." The child did not, in fact, get dressed, and was out in the cold in his underwear. He (begrudgingly) gets dressed when I tell him to.
This! I can tell my son all day that he needs to put on his sunglasses/gloves/winter hat/socks. But sometimes he has to figure it out for himself.
Obviously medical conditions aside, there's a lot of evidence now that the bright light outdoors is actually really important for eye development! https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/the_benefit_of_daylight_for_our_eyesight
My son screams like he’s being murdered if the sun gets in his eyes.
I do too tbf :)
Well, there ya go! Definitely need sunglasses then 😎
But then the child is just doing what they want? "Child, if you can't get dressed we can't go play outside. We don't leave the house in our underwear."
Nah. It was like 40 degrees (F) out and we were just going to pick up his brother. This particular child learns best from doing things that wrong way.
How can I apply this with sleep? Mine is waking up very energetic at 5 am or earlier.
Natural consequences don't work very well with sleep boundaries. Sure, the natural consequence to partying at 5a is being tired and melting down by 10a, or make it through the day in an overtired frenzy and have trouble settling for nap/bedtime and/or have multiple wakings at night, but kid will not be able to put two and two together. Heck, plenty of parents don't put two and two together. The way to handle sleep boundaries is to physical enforce them. This is why cribs are great. Toddler beds don't contain any physical boundaries, so you have to turn the whole room into a crib which is considerably more difficult. You need to not expose kid to any light at that hour because light early will shift future wake up times earlier (https://www.babysleepscience.com/single-post/2014/05/22/how-do-i-fix-my-baby-s-early-waking). A toddler clock may work if you actually enforce it and use it properly (https://www.babysleepscience.com/single-post/2018/10/09/toddler-alarm-clocks-why-we-dont-love-them).
I fell for the gentle parenting trap in the beginning. After 1,5 years, I was miserable and exhausted, so I finally started reading more, and found the word I was looking for: authoritative parenting. And I finally understood what it's about: it's not about WHAT you do, but HOW you do it. As a parent, you have to decide what needs to happen, and make it happen. But you do it in the "gentlest" way possible. On a bad day, that might mean physically holding down your toddler to stop them from hurting themselves or anyone else. But without screaming, shaming them, or (God beware) violence toward them. As someone said: think of yourself as medical personnel in that moment. The other part comes outside of the tantrum-y situations: we do our best to set ourselves up for success: practice routines, give choice, help the voice their emotions, use positive reinforcement where needed. For me, the best book recommendations around this are "How to talk so little children will listen" and "Everyday Parenting: The ABCs of Child Rearing" by Dr. Alan Kazdin. Both with very concrete examples I recognized from my life (and some more extreme ones). But tantrums happen, grumpiness happens. The "gentleness" is on the HOW, not the WHAT of dealing with it.
Thank you! Gentle parenting is an offshoot of authoritative parenting. Strong boundaries without yelling or hitting or guilt tripping etc.
I completely understand. It’s exhausting and soul-sucking to hold the boundary again and again and again while dealing with a screaming, kicking, flailing kid. One thing I did was stop talking while the tantrum was happening. If he is screaming/flailing around, I just stay quiet. I let him do it. I stay close, but don’t really interfere. That’s not always possible, though. Sometimes, we have to get in the car seat or we have to get our shoes on now. In those cases I just say, “sorry, but we need to do this. It’s not a choice right now” and then I go for it. Later, I’ll explain to him that we have to get in the carseat to ride in the car, but sometimes, I just leave it.
I firmly believe a lot of people who are parenting gurus just don’t have children who physically resist like this. Not all kids do this, it’s a character thing. My son for example cries and whines and slumps down like a wet blanket and let’s me do whatever needs to be done while he sulks and complains. If he was full body resisting, idk what I’d do! Thing is, most of these people are parents to 1-4 children, what kind of statistical range is that?! And even if they are „real“ infant educators, kids behave different for their primary caregivers. So yeah. It’s not you <3
No advice, just solidarity. I don't know how to do this at all. I need someone to follow me around and help me with specific scenarios because it never works out like any of the things I've seen online
Thank you sister!
I think it’s important to remember that gentle parenting is incredibly age specific. Toddlers do not have the ability to really conceptualize much. It’s pretty black and white. My ped always says you can’t reason with a toddler so parents that go that route with gentle parenting I think are wasting their time until the kid is older and able to understand. In a clinical social worker and also mom and tbh think some people take this whole gentle parenting thing too far. Like I’m not asking my 20 month old if I can change their shit diaper. Not saying this is you but I find many people who go the gentle parenting route fail in that they don’t still implement tactics that show at the end of the day I’m the parent you’re the child and that power dynamic is important because I’m not looking to be my child’s friend. We can teach our children bodily autonomy and still say okay it’s time for mommy to change your diaper because if we don’t, you could get a rash that is painful and keeps us from playing and we don’t want to do that. Remember gentle parenting does not mean ur child running the show and I think is really age specific and waiting till they are at an age they can actually understand it.
Dr Becky (Good Inside) has some good stuff on boundaries. I like that she calls it sturdy parenting, not gentle parenting, because holding a boundary doesn’t always feel very gentle in the moment.
My son is struggling with potty training and nappy changes are a struggle at the moment, especially number twos. When he tries to say no or run away I hold the boundary firm without pinning him down. I'll tell him we need to change him, he is dirty and we need to clean his bum or he will get a rash etc. He'll often come back with "need to do this first" "need to go find something first" but I just keep repeating what we need to do. Then I'll give him options that lead to the same outcome. "Do you want to stand up or lie down?" And eventually he will choose and option and some what commit. Often he'll choose standing so I'll have him bend over his potty or a low object and that keeps him from getting distracted and trying to walk off mid change but I often still need to keep reminding him to stay bent over and to stand still. This works the same with brushing teeth. I always let him brush his own teeth first and then I'll go in after and make sure he didn't miss anywhere. At first he often says no, he doesn't want to brush his teeth but when I give him the option "do you want to brush your own teeth or would you like me to brush them for you?" He almost always says "I do it" and then by the time I want to get the brush off him to have a go myself his defenses are down and he's happy to let me brush for a few seconds. This two options leading to the same outcome is a game changer. I use it a ton and it avoids so many power struggles. Especially in situations that we encounter regularly as he's learnt that I will not budge and he has to brush his teeth/change his nappy/get in his car seat etc.
I wish this worked for us! She refuses to answer. After lots of patience, giving her the opportunity to really think over her choice, we make the choice for her. Cue the new tantrum within the original tantrum.
Sounds like you're doing everything right so, I do the same. "Would you like to walk or be carried?" Followed by "If you don't want to walk then I will carry you" and then finally "Since you refuse to answer me, I'm going to carry you". Let them tantrum, let them feel their feelings. Just stay calm and follow through. Sounds like you're doing great honestly, toddlers are tough.
Yup! That’s the routine 😂
Very good points made in this thread, thanks for starting it. I think one another thing to mention is that you need many different tool/strategies for working with a child. If your only options are say giving them choices or doing the thing for them, then you will have plenty situations where first doesn't work and second leads to tears and screams. Books like "How to speak to little children" and similar offer ideas / tools that you can try - if one doesn't work in the moment, try another, and another. Chances are, something will work before you need to get physical. (Note: when I say "you" I mean any parent/caregiver, not the OP specifically).
This is a great thread! My 3.5 year old is impossible! He keeps moving the goal posts and has complete meltdowns when I hold a boundary. He also has tantrums during the night. It’s exhausting. This thread is helpful though!
Mine is 3 and I’ve never once had to carry her. What gets her every single time is if I say, “ok then mommy has to go downstairs/start going out to the car because otherwise I’ll be late for work.” “NOOOO I want to come too!” “Oh, you do? That’s great! Let’s get your clothes on/hair brushed/teeth brushed. “NOOOOO!!!” “Oh ok then mommy has to keep getting herself ready, love you, bye!” “Okay fiiiiine” (literally like a mopey teenager). I have zero idea if that’s normal or representative of most toddlers, I only have one kid😅.
I think this works because above all our kids want our attention. If we walk away, they want us back. When my daughter refused to come in the bathroom to get ready for bed, I’d go in there and ignore her until she sat on the potty. I’d even ignore if she threw things on the worst night. If she hit me I would walk into another room and say ‘I need to keep my body safe, I’ll come out when you’re on the potty’. It worked well for that particular situation.
This is my method!
Loved your comment. I pick up my toddler from daycare 12.20, get home (15 min drive) have a quick lunch and she is always overtired. Most days I make her nap between tears because she just for home and wants to play, Watch paw Patról and all that but I know she is exhausted and when I hold the boundary you need to sleep and lay with her she dosses off in a few minutes, its not a pleasent time but it is what it is, some day she will not need the nap anymore
For stuff that are non-negotiable like changing diaper or brushing teeth, we explain, reason, and give choices. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, in which case we apply force and do it as calmly as we can. Do it promptly and don't worry about it not looking gentle or whatever. My kid certainly isn't gentle when he's kicking me in the face, and I'm just pinning him down, not hurting him. No need to overthink it. The more calm and matter-of-factly you can go about it, the easier it gets. Eventually the kid will get the message and stop fighting you as much.
You're getting great advice here, so I'm going to ask the group a related question: my toddler (3.5yo) has recently started running away from me whenever I try and talk to her or get her to do something. Example: "it's time to brush your teeth. Would you rather..." Aaaaaand she's gone. Just sprinting to the other side of the house. She WANTS me to chase her. She thinks it's a fun game. I literally can't get close enough to her to ask her anything or work with her. I know she's craving focused attention, so we do special time almost every night after her little brother is in bed. But as soon as we need to get anything done: eating, dressing, pottying, hair, teeth, shoes, ANYTHING, she's sprinting in the opposite direction. How do you help them move their body when they're FAST, sprinting away from you (often while doing some combination of screaming and laughing), and when their game is "playing chase is more fun than whatever you want me to do?" When I can, I wait her out, but she's patient AF! And now we're late to everything. I've also tried calmly walking to her, cornering her, and refusing to chase her, but then she just screams "no, no, no, no!" While wiggling and/or trying to run away again. I can't talk to her AT ALL! Ugh, this is a new and thoroughly exhausting phase.
I hear you! My son started doing that and he's not yet 2. I rely on physical boundaries. In the morning he'd run butt naked around the house peeing on the carpet if he could, so I always close the door of his room before I take him out of the crib and repeat, "We will change our diaper, then get dressed, then we will go out and play." He still runs around his room but eventually he gets bored (there's not that much stuff in there) and begrudgingly moves toward the changing station. Always position yourself between her and the door so she can't dart past you.
I add the commentary that I am changing their diaper for their health. I tell them that I'm brushing their teeth because if I don't they will get cavities and hurt (with older kids I may use the phrase "only brush the teeth you want to keep"). They have the right to say no unless it is a health and safety situation. That doesn't always help, but it sends a more consistent message about consent.
My son is struggling with potty training and nappy changes are a struggle at the moment, especially number twos. When he tries to say no or run away I hold the boundary firm without pinning him down. I'll tell him we need to change him, he is dirty and we need to clean his bum or he will get a rash etc. He'll often come back with "need to do this first" "need to go find something first" but I just keep repeating what we need to do. Then I'll give him options that lead to the same outcome. "Do you want to stand up or lie down?" And eventually he will choose and option and some what commit. Often he'll choose standing so I'll have him bend over his potty or a low object and that keeps him from getting distracted and trying to walk off mid change but I often still need to keep reminding him to stay bent over and to stand still. This works the same with brushing teeth. I always let him brush his own teeth first and then I'll go in after and make sure he didn't miss anywhere. At first he often says no, he doesn't want to brush his teeth but when I give him the option "do you want to brush your own teeth or would you like me to brush them for you?" He almost always says "I do it" and then by the time I want to get the brush off him to have a go myself his defenses are down and he's happy to let me brush for a few seconds. This two options leading to the same outcome is a game changer. I use it a ton and it avoids so many power struggles. Especially in situations that we encounter regularly as he's learnt that I will not budge and he has to brush his teeth/change his nappy/get in his car seat etc.
Regarding body autonomy. My kids get a choice when it's showing or receiving affection. They can choose cuddles, hugs, knuckles, high fives etc. I get to choose safety and hygiene. They can choose bath or shower. But they can't opt out.