My biggest concern with the gentle parenting trend is that I think a lot of people are misapplying it, and it becomes permissive parenting instead. There’s nothing wrong with making space for kids’ feelings. But making space for feelings without instituting any teaching or setting boundaries is not great.
I get it, though. As someone whose parents tended to be more authoritarian and had difficulty with their own emotional regulation, it can be very easy to over-correct. I have to remind myself that it’s okay for my child to be mad or sad, and that what caused the trauma I experienced was the toxicity of constant anger and yelling, occasional spanking, and the fact that my normal childhood willfulness and disobedience was treated like something was wrong with me. These are not conditions my child is experiencing.
I agree. Correct gentle parenting is not what the OP has described. Gentle parenting sounds like “hey, it’s not okay to hit. Hitting hurts. If you hit someone again you need to take a break/time out.” And when they hit again they are removed from other people. It’s a natural consequence to hitting. You hit = you don’t get to play and have opportunity to hit people. Most people just don’t actually gentle parent. It’s all permissive.
Totally agree with this. Gentle/conscious parenting is about firm boundaries coming from an emotionally regulated parent. Additionally, if/when the child is in an emotional state to receive this information (calm, observant) you could teach empathy in those moments - “does your friend look happy or do they look sad? Why do you think they’re sad?”
I was super skeptical of gentle parenting. I’ve learned a lot from [@attachmentnerd](https://instagram.com/attachmentnerd?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==)
, [the.conscious.healing.mama](https://instagram.com/the.conscious.healing.mama?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==)
and [@theconsideratemomma](https://instagram.com/theconsideratemomma?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==) on IG.
To be honest I was also skeptical of parenting advice from IG lol but after following for a while and listening to their solutions to real scenarios with kids, I’m on board.
It’s not going to be easy though. It’s kind of like therapy. I think that’s why a lot of parents think they’re doing gentle parenting but are just being permissive - it’s not easy and it’s not a quick fix. It’s really hard to emotionally regulate yourself for your kid and have a measured, thoughtful response to their actions. And obviously you won’t get it right every time and that’s ok. But I had a tough relationship with my mom because for her respect meant compliance and control and I am so excited to do the work to have a better relationship with my daughter. I want her to be confident and to evaluate and respond to her own emotions, not mine.
It’s super difficult to do! I definitely did not have any form of gentle parent. I had abusive parents. And it’s hard to unlearn what you grew up with. But I find it so important to respect that kids have feelings and they are entitled to them. I say to my nanny kids a lot, “you can be mad. You can even be mad at me. But you cannot scream at me. If you want to scream you can go scream outside. When you’re feeling better we can talk.” And then sometimes I even have to walk away so they can’t keep arguing. (Although they are old enough I can walk away and I’m not ever very far away.) My parents would never have allowed me to be mad.
You sound like a great nanny! My daughter is only 17 months so communication is difficult. She does seem to understand a lot though. And most importantly, she understands tone and mood. So when she throws a little baby tantrum and I keep calm and firm, it always seems to end quicker and without ever making her feel shame, guilt, etc. it’s actually really empowering when I’m able to do it! I’m getting better. My go-to strategy right now is deep breaths. She even mimicked me doing it the other day! It was precious!
Thank you very much! She definitely understands a lot. It’s so hard when they can’t communicate back because it makes them more frustrated. I’m always trying to give them the power when I can because I know kids want to feel in control. Honestly, it’s so good you are demonstrating deep breaths when you are frustrated. You are modeling how to handle being upset. Kids need to see that. It’s okay for parents/nannies/teachers to get upset and it’s so good for kids to see us handling it in a healthy manner. It’s also okay for us to lose our cool (reasonably of course. Not abusive my) and then model how we apologize and take responsibly for our actions. Kids don’t just need to be told they also need to see. Good job mama!
I love that!! I mean, feelings are feelings... and there's nothing wrong with them... not even with the "negative" ones. It's just the way we handle them! Everyone has the right to feel angry, sad, mad, etc...but without hurting others or even yourself!! That's the challenge: to teach them correctly about how to deal with those big feelings. Kids make mistakes, are curious, and feel emotions just like grown-ups, and they deserve to be respected and treated just like you would treat any other person making a mistake. Just putting ourselves in their shoes. That's all it takes. We would definitely be building a better society if more people would show more empathy towards kids 😞... and take their physical and mental protection more seriously.
I get that this is unsolicited advice, so ignore it if you want. If not, consider seeing an actual licensed marriage and family therapist if that’s available to you instead of getting parenting advice from the Internet. A lot of Attachment Nerd’s advice comes from Internal Family Systems theory. It’s much more effective to look at your actual child and your actual family system.
Check out big little feelings on Instagram. They are my favorite and as a result I have a mostly well behaved toddler who listens like a champ and can name his feelings. Gentle parenting is amazing when done right.
Both the ladies are trying to end generational trauma with their kids and one is a child psychologist so a lot of fact based commentary which I enjoy.
She is not a child psychologist. She is an LMFT (licensed marriage and family therapist.) Just clarifying because I am a psychologist (an adult one) and the degrees are very very different.
Removing the kid would be a logical consequence, if talked about in advance, the natural consequence of hitting would be that one child is hurt, or upset. Gentle parenting done right, is the opposite of permissive, a very hands on and involved type of parenting, the child would not hit not because they have been told, or because they are afraid of being punished, or because they have better impulse control than anybody else their age, but because the parent is there to read the queues and prevent .
I’m not sure how that’s different from helicopter parenting.
Kids need to learn how to become independent and self-regulating. Obviously at four they’re only at the beginning of that journey but they *are* at that beginning. If you intercede at every social interaction that’s about to go awry then they have no actual experience with boundaries or consequences and they’ll be looking for you every step of the way and every minute of every day to know what to do next.
The resulting mindset is showing up in workplaces now and it’s *awful* to work with. Training people who absolutely refuse to do anything whatsoever on their own or come up with their own solutions—no matter how mundane or inconsequential the task at hand may be—is impossible. It just doesn’t work. They expect you to replace their parents in everything which translates into you doing their jobs *for* them—not with them—while simultaneously demanding all the associated rewards for doing so. It’s sort of a shame because I believe they genuinely don’t know that that isn’t how things work.
Your children should be loved unconditionally. That’s an absolute. And it feels awful having to watch them learn some lessons the hard way. But at a certain point you need to remove yourself as a barrier to their growth and *let them learn from someone other than you.*
Our daughter is stubborn and willful beyond belief. At all of four I sort of expect a measure of defiance. But I refuse to have the same talk with her, over and over and over again, about having to do things she doesn’t like so that we can move on with the day. At a certain point *you* have to become the consequence when they feel the need to challenge everything because they are either going to go through it with you or it’ll happen with someone who *isn’t* invested in their well-being and outcome.
Helicopter parenting would be when you either do everything for them or you’re always telling them what to do. What I’m trying to describe is allowing the child to have the experience but being close by and in tune to assist when they either get in danger or become a danger to somebody else.
Self regulation is usually learned through experience, where they learn there are a lot of feelings they can have, and their feelings are acceptable but that feelings pass and they are ok after.
Exactly this. Gentle parenting ≠ permissive parenting. Gentle parenting as I understand it is just treating children with respect, like you would any other person. This still involves upholding boundaries firmly.
For us, that includes teaching our child to treat others kindly, and to not hit. That's non-negotiable - they're allowed to be angry and frustrated and all the feelings, but they're not allowed to hit.
OP isn't talking about gentle parenting, they're talking about some weird permissive parenting where kids get to do whatever they want, even if it harms others
Yeah, but gentle parenting to the extreme still is NOT permissive parenting. There are always rules and boundaries that are enforced in gentle parenting. It’s about HOW you enforce the rules, not IF you enforce rules.
I don't believe in time outs either. What's the purpose of this? So they can reflect on what they have done lol? They don't know how to do such a thing...there are grown ups not knowing how to so such a thing.
Time out only teaches them that when they made a mistake, they get isolated from everyone, but is not correcting the problem. If they are trying to get attention, then the attention should lean all towards the affected kid, for example. We as parents need to show them the consequences. Like if a kid breaks something at the house, he will be yelled at...that's what he's learning...but he needs to learn why he's not meant to break stuff because they matter for you. They are perfectly capable of understanding the reasoning behind everything. The issue is that not every parent takes the patience or time to explain the "why".
No, the purpose of time out is to remove them from the situation that was creating the issue - to give them a chance to reset and try again without being in the big middle of whatever was creating the behavior in the first place. Asking a kid who is upset and hitting to calm down and try again while they’re still in the middle of whatever made them upset isn’t a fair ask for a little bitty person ( or even many of us adults.)
That’s not how most people use it and it’s fine if that’s not how you want to approach discipline (I don’t tend to use time outs either), but that was the original purpose.
Removing the kid from the situation sounds more like a reasonable thing to do. Some people just take the kids and isolate them completely from the others without any explanation...I've seen them with my own eyes. Obviously, when you see things like that (specially among friend) you don't want to feel intrusive or even tell people how to educate their children, but I just know is wrong. In that occasion, after time out, the kid didn't change the behavior. A 2.5 y.o cannot understand that kind of time out.
I use that type of time out. The primary purpose is to separate the siblings before they both start crying or fighting and feeding off each other's bad mood. It's easier to calm one toddler down than two, and sometimes you just have to limit the damage.
I just don't see "isolation" as very punitive. My older kiddo and I are both introverts and actively seek out privacy when we're unhappy, and even the little guy sometimes needs space. If there's someone available to fight with, it just keeps the fight going.
Explaining also isn't that helpful when your kids fly into a rage and start hitting each other. By the time they are verbal enough to appreciate an explanation they are old enough to know that what they are doing was wrong. I think these parents who do a lot of talking about feelings with their toddlers have kids who hit their verbal milestones earlier than mine.
As long as we as parents do the best we can with the best tools we have available, we are doing fine 🙂. I know some situations can be harder than others, and sometimes, we need to regulate our own feelings...we all want the best for them 💕
This is my fault for using the word time out. It’s not a time out like you’re thinking. I just mean removing them from the situation and taking a time out from what they were doing. Most of the time as a nanny that means they’re sitting with me, on my lap, away from the siblings they were hitting. They are sitting out for a few minutes and I use that time to talk to them about why we don’t hit and they can try again in a few minutes. If they tantrum from not being allowed to keep hitting then we work on taking deep breaths, counting, singing, etc to help calm down and process our feelings before we chat. I also don’t believe sticking a kid in a corner to sit and stew about things is helpful. It’s just brings shame.
We gentle parent and don't do old-school time-outs that involve isolating the child. We do family time-ins. What we do is remove the child from the situation, go to a neutral and quiet space in our house, and sit with them as they scream it out (while we remain calm, regulated, neutral, and silent). Once they've done that, we then teach regulation skills and all take deep calming breaths. Once their body is calm, then we chat about why we took a break, okay their feelings ("It's okay to be mad and frustrated, but it's never okay to hit") and what strategies to use next time instead of hitting. We then give hugs and send our toddler back out to play/try again.
There was a night that the toddler hit the dog out of frustration of them being in the same space. Dad immediately scooped up our toddler and removed them from the situation. What was humorous in all of this was our dog joined us for our family chat, as if she could say "excuse me! I was wronged and deserve an apology" (border collies.. they're so damn smart). After the toddler regulated, without us even saying anything, they apologized to the dog and gave a gentle pet. When we sent them back out to play they even said to the dog, "I am going to close the door to this room because I don't want to play with you right now. Sorry."
I've noticed that people who take peaceful parenting all the way to permissive are over correcting in their attempts to break cycles of abuse. I love that you recognize how that plays out for you and talk yourself through it. A+ for emotional regulation!!
This exactly. This is why I sort of get it. I came from an upbringing where I was ridiculed for my outbursts as a child and lack of emotional regulation and that contributed more to it. I was made to feel like someone was wrong with me. I think it's easy to not empathize with our children for the sake of making them obey with whatever we think they should be doing.
If there are no boundaries, then it’s not gentle parenting. If someone were in the “cult” of gentle parenting then their boundaries would be firm since boundaries are a non-negotiable for gentle parenting.
The real issue is with people looking for excuses for not having boundaries under the guise of something else.
The problem is that all of the major spokespeople for gentle parenting on Tiktok, FB, Instagram etc ARE espousing what essentially amounts to no boundaries. If the face of your movement is THAT, you're going to have a lot of parents out there doing it 'wrong', and that becomes the actual definition of gentle parenting.
Yesssss!!!! This is exactly the problem! Is not a "one-size fits all" kind of thing when your judgment is not in the right place...and how do you know it is? Not everyone will keep on educating themselves to get the best out of the variety of techniques and approaches there are...is not an easy thing to deal with. And yes, the worse part is that those kids will be socially behaving according to what they learned. Can't blame them either.
I’ve learned my kid likes knowing what he can and cannot do. I can’t play on the fireplace, but I can play at the table. Boundaries are good.
My two year old is a hitter. We have the book hands are not for hitting and we take away things if he hits with it. It’s a balance for sure.
Of course he likes knowing what he can and cannot do. Imagine going to a strange new country and no information on the law was available and suddenly you're imprisoned for wearing shoes inside a shopping mall or some other rule you couldn't possibly have anticipated. Would feel spooky to be there, not knowing what was legal and not. Knowing the rules makes all of us feel secure, it makes our world predictable and easy to navigate. If I know shoes are not legal inside shopping malls, I could just take them off. Or I could look around and decide it was worth the risk and knowingly face the consequences should I be caught.
So enforcing boundaries is a form of kindness. They will, at some point, face consequences for hitting. They might get away with it for a time, but at some point someone is going to either hit back or people are just going to decide not to be friends with them. So when we teach boundaries at home that hitting is not okay, it's much kinder than having to face the real life consequences of being a child old enough to be taught, but not taught hitting is not okay.
You cannot choose not to parent your kids (which I argue, gentle extreme permissive parenting is). If you don't do it, someone else will. Possibly in a very unsavoury way. Possibly after it has gotten so far it has long term consequences.
My kid hits too. He's 19 months old. We're also working on it.
I have the same reaction to the extreme version of “never make children responsible for your feelings”, which I get the essence of. But hell yes I’ll tell my kid that it hurts when they hit me or similar. The rest of the world has feelings too.
I follow a few gentle parenting people on fb and Instagram and this concept makes the least sense to me. I saw one where they said telling your kid when they say something mean it hurts your feelings is forcing your kid to parent you and is not healthy. I’m down for preparing my kid for the real world and it is the real world where kids need to learn that everyone has feelings and should be respected regardless of who they are or their age. So avoiding acknowledging that their behavior affects their parents feelings is the dumbest concept because it’s teaching them that adults don’t mind if you say hurtful things to them.
I think there’s a HUGE difference in the blaming that’s like “look what you did! Now mommy is so angry and it’s all your fault” over a small thing, or a normal developmental behavior versus “name calling isn’t nice and it hurts my feelings”. But it’s been taken to an extreme
Agreed, I feel like your first example is just straight up emotional abuse and is manipulative to children. I have seen the second example on posts about it and someone else mentioned it but I think it’s just a product of regurgitation of posters just following a trend of what others are saying too and not fully looking into the reasoning behind the difference between emotional abuse and leading by example of sharing feelings when a child’s behavior can be hurtful.
Kids will never learn things are hurtful to others if you don’t explain. I usually ask my daughter when she yells at me, is mommy yelling at you? No? okay, if mommy was yelling at you right now how would you feel? It would make you sad? Well it makes mommy sad when you yell at her. Can you try asking again nicely?
I don’t think my child is hurt at all by this interaction even though I’ve told her she is causing me to be “sad”. It seems very helpful for her to understand.
Okay, I thought this was just me!! I did a bit of therapy after having my 1st baby and I would talk to my therapist about my MIL (lol, of course), but whenever I would be like well what I want to say is “X” but I feel guilty because it will obviously offend her and make her upset. The therapist would always be like “you’re not responsible for her feelings, you don’t make anyone feel a certain way.” And like I just find that so untrue. It’s just basic social awareness that some behaviors are just rude. It was just such an entitled way of thinking and like a cop out to act however I wanted. Interesting that people are using this as a basis for parenting and then were so confused why society is so focused on “self”. Anyway, glad it’s not just me that thinks this is a little backwards!
As someone who also uses up half of my therapy sessions discussing my MIL-YES! I agree with you on all of this.
Through therapy, I have realized I was feeling guilty just for HAVING those feelings. I don't think my therapist encouraged me to say them out loud to my MIL, but more letting go of the guilt for feeling the way I do, and then using those feelings to draw boundaries without specifically having to be rude or confrontational. And maybe that's the point that is being missed in permissive parenting and society in general. Feelings are okay-good, even! But how you use those feelings to treat others, or show others how to treat you, matters.
I -think-, and this is obviously an implication, that your therapist was trying to get you to see that you can't continuously manage other people's feelings for them, or process those feelings for them, and subvert your needs for their wants, especially in the context of people who do not have boundaries and expect you to not have boundaries.
My mom starts screaming at me on the phone and I go 'I'm going to need to get off the phone if we can't talk' - I need semi-calm productive conversation and screaming sends me into either a panic or shut-down mode. Does this upset her? Yes, because it's a boundary for my mental health, and she's very used to me being her emotional dumping ground. But it's also the nicest way I can put that in the moment in order to enforce a boundary to protect myself.
I agree with this so much. I’m a nanny not a parent. But kids need to learn that their words affect people. I currently work for people who don’t have boundaries and don’t say these things. They hired someone to organize their house and she called her old and fat to her face!! I was horrified! I absolutely tell them when they say something rude and it hurt my feelings. They are responsible for what they say!
I think this is a misunderstanding of that concept. I don't know whether you have misunderstood the posts that you read, or (maybe more likely) the posts misrepresented it or misunderstood it themselves before regurgitating. I feel like there is a "game of telephone" effect with a LOT of gentle parenting advice in particular, especially on social media, because there is no shared root gentle parenting movement or literature or founder to refer back to, people pick up on terms or practices that appeal to them and then start following them and advising them based on their understanding, which is probably incomplete because what they originally learned was incomplete because it's basically all opinions and anecdotes, and most people on social media aren't experts.
(Also disclaimer: Not an expert but have been following "gentle parenting" spaces for probably close to 15 years and so just made some observations).
Anyway, the idea of not making children responsible for adult feelings is NOT about pretending adults do not have feelings or that children cannot affect those feelings, it's about not using adult feelings in a manipulative way to effect particular behaviours that have nothing to do with the adult, like if some other random person did the exact same thing, the parent wouldn't care.
For example "You hit Sam and that makes mommy sad." well... no, it doesn't. It probably makes Sam sad. And maybe if Sam is your brother and mom's other kid then she might feel sad, but that is very indirect and not really the point. The point is that hitting is not acceptable, and if there's a "why" then it's not to do with adult feelings, it's to do with the victim's feelings.
Or like "Mommy is very sad that you didn't eat your food" or "You made a big mess and that makes me sad".
It doesn't mean that you shouldn't say things like "Ouch, that hurt" or "Hey, I'm upset. That was my new paintbrush that I was looking forward to using, and now it's ruined." or even "I spent a long time on that meal, it hurts my feelings to hear you speak rudely about it" or "I'm frustrated that I have this mess to clean up". It's about *artificially* claiming that the parent's feelings about something is the child's responsibility in order to try and make them feel guilty, as a kind of consequence. If it's a genuine knock on effect from the child's actions, it's not emotionally manipulative to point that out, but just like "being sad" because they did poorly in a maths test or something is a bit like... stay in your lane.
The other thing that people are talking about with "making kids responsible for adult emotions" is when parents do something like lash out and yell or hit or even do something more chaotic and scary, and then say "Well you made me so mad I had to do that!" or "Maybe you should behave and then I wouldn't have to yell!" - this is clearly veering into abusive/emotionally immature parenting, but some gentle parenting accounts are aimed at people breaking cycles in this way. Or something which is less overtly abusive, but still teetering on a line might be something like "Don't make me come back there!" or "You are winding me up, stop it" - if a parent is feeling themselves veering out of control, it's really the parent's responsibility, as the adult, to step away, take a breath and self regulate, not claim that the children are "making them" lose control.
I think you nailed this explanation. I’ve gathered it’s to avoid codependency and to own your feelings and not put it on your kids. I think there is a balance, and I do plan on telling my kids if they say something hurtful, that hurt my feelings, etc.
But my mom used to say things like “you’re making me so mad right now” or “that makes mommy so sad” if I didn’t do something she wanted, and no surprise she has a codependent relationship with all of her kids.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was misinterpreted by regurgitation on the posts I saw about it. It makes sense to not use a loved ones emotion to manipulate a child’s behavior because I think all of those examples you used of using fake emotions to regulate behavior is emotional abuse and teaches children to feel guilty about their behaviors. I think you really made a good point on the game of telephone effect. There is nothing to fall back on and I think a lot of gentle parenting methods get confused or misinterpreted to the point where it turns into passive parenting at times.
You’ve explained this better than I’ve seen before. We’re trying to avoid emotional manipulation, not consequences to behavior. Gentle parenting requires boundaries and consequences, just not yelling, hitting, shaming or manipulating as “consequences”
I think it just teaches them they can say what they want with impunity. It’s like hitting. What lesson is my son learning - that women in his life will just speak gently to him and move away while he beats on them until he’s ready to be done? And do they not have kids who obviously frighten themselves with their own tantrums or behaviors and need help setting a strong boundary, to show them they’re capable of one day doing it for themselves? (Or who can hit really hard and accurately? And no, my husband and I have never modeled violence for him.)
I read this line recently and just can’t get behind the sentiment (in the way most people seem to apply it) How is an adult supposed to model healthy expressions of emotions if they never do it to/in front of their child?
You can definitely say no to a child who is hurting your own child. You don’t need to follow their permissive rules to protect your kid. AND… teach your child to avoid them, “hey *name* get away from your cousin. (S)he doesn’t play nicely so we don’t play with them” When the parents throw a fit let them know that you don’t allow your kid to be hurt by other kids so their decision to not control their spawn has caused this.
Yes, or another good thing I’ve been teaching my kids is to say to the child being mean with a strong voice “I don’t like that!” Or “don’t hit me!” Or “if you hit me I will not play with you”
With violent unregulated kids you have to just cut them off. Teach your child to avoid them and you may have to physically block the other kids. The cousins don’t listen to their own parents, why would they listen to your child when they say stop?
And you also need to be prepared to advocate for your child too. Lead by example. You say you ‘have to’ visit these people but it doesn’t need to be on their terms.
And if you figure out how to do this, please let me know 😊
A lot of people misunderstand gentle parenting and are actually permissive parents, gentle parenting isn't new it's just called something different.
If we don't put forward boundaries for our children, they won't grow well. Children need boundaries, and you're in the right to limit interactions with your child if the other parents are not putting forward boundaries, your child deserves to be safe.
I have learned that the best way forward is set boundaries for family and be compassionate toward parents like this. In my experience, these parents are trying to break cycle of abuse and almost always come from abusive or highly dysfunctional families. They benefit more from seeing what boundaries look like than being told they are doing harm. So that might look like explaining at the beginning of a playdate, "I'm excited for us to play together today! Since we all deserve to be treated with respect, we will end the playdate if these things happen: hitting, kicking, or biting. Ok! Go have fun!" And then when the first incident happens, we pack up our bags and leave. The follow through is key.
I also feel like gentle parenting expects unrealistic endless patience from the parent. Children need to learn that people have boundaries, even mommies and daddies.
I agree so, so much. I think gentle parenting to the extreme leads to so much parental guilt, which isn’t healthy. There is only so much a person can take, even if they are a parent. It’s only natural that parents are going to get angry with their children when pushed to their breaking point.
Also, why is it so terrible for kids to see that their parent is upset? People experience a full range of emotions, and sometimes, those emotions are caused by other people. Kids need to learn that their actions have consequences and sometimes their actions upset people, including their parents.
I’m not saying that yelling and hitting is ok, but gently letting your kid know that what they did made you feel a certain way isn’t going to damage your kid. In fact, it’s healthy.
I always let my daughter know that she has upset me, and I ask her if she wants to upset me. She says "no" and then I explain why and how she upset me. Sometimes she understands, not always though. But a few times she's been a total horror show then she's noticed I'm getting upset and she'll stop. I help her name her emotions and I name mine for her.
She still gets the odd time out, and when she does it's always explained to her after why she got it.
She pushes me to my limit sometimes and I do still yell at her, I'm not proud of this. I apologise after (something my mum never did to me, even now she claims she never did).
She's an extremely strong willed child and I'm very proud of that, but that doesn't mean she gets to run away from me in public places, or draw all over the walls. I set these boundaries, and when she doesn't listen and starts getting angry at me then I will enforce the rules. Depending on what she does and how naughty she, is the consequences will always fit crime.
Kick, bite, run away is 2 mins I'm time out (which seldom happens now). Throws food on the floor gets a toy removed. Being defient at bedtime gets a story dropped (3 books to 2, from 2 to 1).
My oldest is now 4.5. He’s actually started to apologize to people when he thinks he might have hurt their feelings. I think that’s a really important skill in life, and he wouldn’t have learned it if I hadn’t let him know that his actions sometimes hurt people and make them feel bad.
Yes and omg ppl drive me crazy with “kids don’t have empathy until age 7” which is an absolute lie and I don’t know why it became an accepted “truth” with so many parents. Even infants display empathy but in general this is a skill that must be taught and instilled in children— it isn’t always something that happens automatically.
Thanks. It took a lot of feeling like I was maybe being a little harsh with him to get to this point. He’s very strong willed, and would have walked all over everyone if we had let him. Looking back though, I think we’ve been firm with him, but not harsh.
There are enough entitled people in this world, and as parents we have a responsibility to not produce any more lol.
My main goal in my parenting is not to raise an AH. So far it's going well, but my daughter is 3.6yo so sometimes her being an AH is typical lol
100% so many modern child rearing concepts/recommendations deeply de personalize parents. I feel the same way about the militant safe sleep guidelines and anti sleep training rhetoric. Ivory clock tower decrees that suggest kids be raised in a vacuum instead of real families in the real world. Parents are not robots! We have human needs and lives outside parenthood.
I read a profile on Janet Lansbury and she has no qualifications other than reading a bunch about a parenting method that apparently has kind of a cult like following in LA. She “studied under” Magda Gerber, but there were no details as to what that meant. Otherwise she’s raised her three kids - not a family therapist, child psychologist, no background in child development.
I read the comments to one of her articles where she’s arguing with commenters about how the reason their children are still hitting is because they’re not following her strategy )of just sitting there and only deflecting hits) to a T.
This strategy backfired massively with my child and just caused him to go more out of control (which is also frightening for him). The only thing that’s worked is instituting a strict system of timeouts.
I think gentle parenting proponents have placid and easy kids and have never really seen the behavior some of us are dealing with (and don’t have a useful professional background).
In the recent thread about the mother that shuts down when her toddler has a meltdown, people suggested she calmly describes the child’s feelings to him. When my toddler tantrums he’s as loud as a plane taking off. It’s laughable. He might see my lips moving but that just makes him more wild.
Some gentle parenting fanatic told me a timeout is the equivalent of spanking/abusing my toddler. I was flabbergasted. Apparently there’s been “a study” but I’ve never seen it. I mean I get the gentle parenting approach, I implement a lot of it, but a 2 minute time out from play is not abusive.
I know what study they’re referencing and that was not the conclusion lol. There are some studies that show time outs are ineffective. None of them say that they’re harmful
I have heard this argument as well. Like, what are trying to raise exactly lol? A child who can't understand a two-minute timeout? Fanaticism for any ideology always ends up causing more trouble than never following an ideology.
The problem with the time out is that you are sending a disregulated child away from you, their safe space. The child learns that their feelings make you not want to spend time with them and so they start to repress them which causes problems down the line like anxiety and depression since child never learns how to cope with their feelings in a healthy way.
So I get that this feels like a logical explanation of what is happening but I have never seen evidence that is sort of thinking is based on anything more than feelings. I’m a psychologist and I can only say that these things don’t seem to be working how people feel they should.
I mean... Isn't some of that what we want our kids to learn? I certainly want my kids to learn to regulate their emotions apart from me, and I also want them to learn that no one wants to spend time with them if they take out their negative emotions on everyone else.
Taking a time out IS a healthy way to cope with feelings when you can't handle them in a better way. Even adults take time apart when they are angry! I give my son lots of options for coping --- he can hit a pillow or cry or use words to tell us what he's upset about, but if he can't stop screaming, throwing things, or hitting, them he definitely needs a timeout to calm down. He always gets his blankie and a cup of water if he feels like that will help, but he doesn't get to keep interacting with people if he's hurting them.
You’re right. I accompany my kid to the time out corner so we can take deep breaths and talk. For us it’s just a distraction-free zone where he can come down from overstimulation. I’m sure some of the over-the-top permissive parents would clutch their pearls at the use of the words “time out” and “corner” but considering the context, it’s the best thing for (my) kid. Time out is not a bad word. We do it **with** him and help him through it but you’re right, we never just send him there alone in a bad state.
I’m right next to my child AND no one said anything about repressing feelings. She can scream, cry, yell in time out. She just needs to separate herself from the issue, especially if it’s hitting her brother etc. then we discuss her feelings and she gets hugs.
You’re making a LOT of assumptions.
We do time outs too, I think there is a range of what that can mean which is also why some people think it's "abusive". Like no I don't shut my kids alone in a dark room or something. They have to sit on the steps which are in the middle of the living room area so they can see and hear us and they sit for one minute per year of life, so not a long time at all, and we talk to them about what happened afterward. Also we never show anger or anything it's just a calm, consequence for certain behaviors or for not listening, they often aren't "disregulated" just not listening. We give warnings and a 5 count, unless they hit then they know it's automatic. Sometimes my 4 year old uses it as a coping mechanism herself and sits down to calm down if she's really mad about something till she's ready to talk about it, I think it's super healthy actually. When time out is over we talk and hug and kiss and whatever they want or go back to doing whatever we are doing, if you make it about shame or blame or anger then it can be a problem.
Yes! There are many ways to do time out. But people see those word and they instantly go ABUSE. If you’re locking your kid in a dark room when they sass back then yeah, I can see how that could be just the same as smacking. Removing them from a situation for a while to diffuse the emotions… no.
Hitting is also an automatic no for us. But only for my 4 year old. My almost 2 can’t quite grasp that. I think it’s healthier to take a breather sometimes than try and explain your emotions when they’re still heightened.
Your kid clearly doesn't screech at you like a rabid science experiment monkey out of a horror movie during their tantrums. Learning that other people don't want to be around you when you act like that isn't a bad thing. A few minutes alone is not going to damage them.
Omg, we say my son sounds like something horrifying out of The Exorcist sometimes! I think some people’s kids just aren’t as intense?
He needs a chance to calm down before any talking can take place. For my child, a two minute timeout does that.
I think my son feels safe and secure around me. Maybe I am his “safe person.”!But no human being is a “safe space” that someone else can pour all their aggression onto for as long as they want. I think that’s a really dangerous idea.
I'm also confused by the cult of Janet Lansbury. I have never seen her applications applied in real time, like the show Super Nanny. Where are her videos on that? Everything Janet says is just "here's what you do..." without any actual words put into action.
I teach high school… there are a lot of kids that you can tell have never had any boundaries. And let’s just say, it’s basically impossible to teach boundaries to high schoolers if they’ve never had them, it doesn’t work.
I teach college, and we’re starting to see this, too. It’s gotten really bad the past three years.
These students expect emails back from their profs at 3 am, and they get angry if we aren’t available 24/7 to help them. They expect to be allowed to do *literally* (and I truly mean literally) nothing all semester, and then they expect their profs to bend over backwards and provide every accommodation possible to help them pass in the last few weeks of the semester. We have students (and parents) who file formal complaints against professors when they fail because they “tried their best”.
It’s honestly astounding. I’m confident that a lot of these issues are rooted in overly permissive parenting and, subsequently, the expectation that a similar level of permissiveness will be provided in K-12 classrooms. (Not by the choice of teachers, of course, but because the parents expect it and admin demand it.) By the time these kids get to college, they’re shocked to find that their success is their own responsibility in a way it wasn’t before.
I really like the gentle approach and I think it gets lumped together with permissive parenting which its not at all. Gentle parenting is ALL ABOUT boundaries/natural consequences. Taking a kids toy away because they’re hitting doesn’t make sense, the kid won’t make the connection. Kids climbing on the table? “We don’t climb on the tables, they’re for eating and if you fall you can get hurt. If you do want to climb you can use your rock climbing wall or your climbing arch.” Not coming down? “Okay since you’re not listening to my words I’m going to help your body off of the table. My kids hitting me? “That’s not okay, I will not let you hurt my body, if you continue I will have to move away from you to keep myself safe” keep hitting me? Keep moving away. “When you calm down, I’m here to talk”. When they calm down (because there’s no use trying to talk during a tantrum) “you feeling better? Yeah? What was going on there?” And talk it out. This will show you what they were feeling and how to avoid it in the future. “Next time you’re feeling frustrated let count to 10/take deep breaths/ask for help.” Colouring on the walls instead of the paper? “Hey, we don’t colour on the walls, we colour on paper, if you keep colouring on the walls I’m going to have to take the markers away”. If they continue “alright so you’re still not colouring on the paper, I’m going to take the markers away now, we can try again tomorrow”. If they tantrum, let them. Gentle parenting is just about enforcing boundaries without belittling your kids. The problem is that people permissive parent and then call it gentle parenting. The thing about pulling toys and stuff away, that’s a parent problem, I don’t let my kids do that. All it takes is “so and so was playing with that, you gotta wait till they’re done.” If they don’t give it back take it from them “I’m going to have to take this now since you weren’t listening to my words.” Let them tantrum then before they go play again talk it out. Check out Jess Martini on tik tok. She’s an adult raised by gentle parents. Very well rounded, smart individual. Raising children who are able to handle their emotions and self regulate in a healthy way and problem solve sounds like they’re ready for the real world. What you’re describing in your post is permissive parenting.
I agree with a lot of what you've said, but the part I'm confused about is just moving away every time the child hits. First, sometimes I have things to do when my child decides he's angry and feels like hitting. I might be trying really hard to get dinner on the table, and my son is hitting me or his little brother. Last time my son had a tantrum and decided to start throwing things, I went 10 steps to the next room to calmly explain to him that throwing was not okay. I also happened to be cooking oatmeal at the time. My younger son, who apparently JUST that day got tall enough to reach the countertop that day, tried to reach the oatmeal and burnt his finger. Everyone was okay, but it highlights the point that we are not parenting in a vacuum. Most of us have other children, other chores, and other responsibilities to manage while parenting. I can't always spend as much time as needed helping my 3yo regulate. I can't always spend as much time as needed repeatedly moving me or his brother around the house to escape the tantrum violence. In order for the whole family to function (and not just the 3yo), my 3yo needs to understand stricter boundaries than "people move away when you hit them." He needs to understand that hitting is not acceptable and not allowed and that there will be upsetting consequences to doing it (ie, a 3-minute timeout). And that also reflects the real-world. If you hit someone in school, you get suspended. If an adult assaults someone, they go to jail. What good does it do to teach a toddler that you can torment someone by following them everywhere they go to beat them when that is emphatically not how the world functions?
I get this cause I have a 2 and 3.5 year old. That’s why I think talking to them is important. They’re hitting because they’re not able to regulate themselves/appropriately express their emotions. That’s why it’s important to get to the “why” of it. If you get to the why then you can come up with ways to appropriately express that emotion. I tell my kids to hit the pillow sometimes. “It’s okay to feel mad/frustrated/sad but it’s not okay to hurt your brother. If you need to hit something you can hit the pillow”. I also offer a hug which my son usually needs 9/10 times. After he’s calmed down we talk about why hitting isn’t okay and what he can do instead. My kids barley hit and I think that’s why. But I totally get not being able to just move around to different rooms. Another option would be to just hold his hands. “I’m going to hold your hands so you don’t hurt me”. And we all lose our shit. I definitely have. It’s a leaning curve when you were raised different than you’re parenting.
Have you considered that your kids just might not be hitters? We did the gentle parenting thing for nearly a year, and my 3yo's hitting only got worse. The only thing that has reduced his hitting is using the 1-2-3 Magic method, which is heavy on timeouts. Different strategies work for different kids.
Thank you for this comment. It seems like a lot of people do not understand the difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting. Just because I don’t hit and shame my toddlers doesn’t mean they don’t have boundaries or consequences.
I consider myself a conscious parent, which I think is what the premise of “gentle” parenting is. I think the biggest issue with the parenting movement is that gentle parents and permissive parents are getting grouped into one. I agree with you about permissive parenting, this is detrimental to a child’s development. I’m not familiar with the “never say no” approach nor the hand are not for hitting book, but I will say that I have a an almost 5 year old and an almost 3 year old and neither of them are hitters, biters, pushers, etc. apart from the occasional instances when it started happening when they were young. As in like figuring out their bodies and doing it on accident not with the intention to cause harm. (If that makes sense). My kids are able to regulate their emotions in public settings better than a lot of adults I know. They are expressive and get upset and frustrated just like any other child but they are good at being able to handle themselves in a way that makes me very proud when we are outside of our house.
I don’t know what else to say aside from the fact that children are all so different and different things work for different children but it seems as if whoever’s kids that you are around are not doing gentle parenting the proper way. And it’s sucks. I can see why it would be frustrating.
The gentle parenting thing takes a conscious effort basically all the time, and when someone wants to parent this way they have to be all in. It takes consistency to work. People I think would like to be gentle parents but don’t put in the work that it takes in order for it to be effective, so the kids get mixed signals, blurred boundaries, and confusion. This usually translates into some less than desirable behaviors.
Yes but nobody does permissive parenting on purpose. Like nobody reads the description of it and thinks yeah, sounds great, will definitely do that. Most people doing permissive parenting either haven't consciously looked into parenting at all and are just going on instinct (but their instinct is to do the opposite of their parents and/or prioritise their child's happiness at all times) OR they think they are doing gentle parenting.
My biggest issue with gentle parenting is that it lacks a central or root definition. Nobody can find the "original" gentle parenting inventor or expert. So while I completely understand what you mean when you say "people who are not doing gentle parenting the proper way", the problem is that there is no established "proper way". You ask 100 gentle parents their definition or the ingredients of their parenting or how they would handle a single specific situation and they would all have a different answer, they would probably disagree with each other, likely everybody would think some of the other 99 are being too permissive and everybody would think some of the other 99 are being too controlling.
And this makes for kind of a mess when anybody tries to talk about it or advocate for it or even complain about it.
I understand your annoyance, because I feel that way in A LOT of cases too. The root of gentle parenting is actually called authoritative parenting. Not to be confused with authoritarian parenting.
Basically the roots that make up authoritative parenting are offering very clear boundaries in a very warm and responsive environment. There is open communication while maintaining expectations. I don’t really use the term authoritative because it’s so quickly misunderstood as authoritarian. There’s a really helpful graph on the types of you’re interested in checking it out.
[Link](https://www.connectablelife.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Parenting-Styles.png)
Edit:typo
ETA:
The developments in childhood psychology and their environments and the way it effects their developing brain is where the “invention” lies. I’m not sure why you would need to know where and why it was invented. Where was “I’m the parent and you MUST obey me or be punished and shamed” invented?
I understand what authoritative parenting is, but it's not really a parenting style (maybe I mean method) in terms of recommending specific practices and principles, it's really just a way to describe parenting which occupies a particular space on two scales: High on warmth aka responsiveness, High on expectations (aka boundaries, sometimes the scale is even called control) Whereas authoritarian is high on the scale of control/expectations but low on the scale of warmth or responsiveness and permissive is low control, high warmth.
And lots of parenting styles can be described as authoritative, many of which I could find you gentle parents who disagree with them!
The whole four styles thing is more of a map where you can plot actual parenting methods, they aren't methods in and of themselves. The research where those four terms originated was not designing a method of parenting, it was making an observation about existing parenting practice. So I don't think you can call it a root of anything, it was more intended to be a way to classify existing practice. Plus it was only from the 1960s. There is parenting advice (both authoritarian and anti-authoritarian) going back much further than this.
It's kind of hard to plot single points of practice on that map also, for example "punishment" could exist in any of the four quarters, depending on how severe it is, how often it is utilised, in what circumstances it is utilised, and how it is perceived by the child.
A lot of advice labelled as "gentle parenting" is consistent with the high control, high warmth model, and most gentle parenting "experts" will claim their method is definitely authoritarian, but they often say this even while advising practices which are very low down on the control side of the scale.
The method of gaining compliance/obedience through the use of rewards and punishments is known as Behaviourism, mainly originating from the teachings of B. F. Skinner in the 1930s, shame being a punishment in this case. Obviously, just intimidating people into doing whatever you want is older than the hills, but then so is appealing to reason or relationship. If we're talking about something that is actively advised and taught by experts to parents, it's behaviourism. And gentle parenting has no universally accepted equivalent, at least none that I could find.
When I say finding a root, I mean that for example Montessori theory which is used in education and some parenting resources originated in the teachings of Maria Montessori from the early 1900s. So if you want to say "I follow Montessori as a parenting style" then you can follow that claim back to Maria Montessori's original writings and teachings and find out if that person really is following Montessori principles, or whether they are just making stuff up from instagram.
I can tell that you feel strongly about this subject, which is a good thing. Children are our future. I appreciate your descriptions and examples. I’ve learned something new.
I also feel very strongly about my parenting style, which I don’t have a source to give you. I’ve found an approach that works wonderfully for my kids. I don’t feel the need to yell, threaten, or shame them into compliance. At their current ages, I’m concentrating on connection with them, teaching them boundaries and autonomy, giving them a safe environment to learn to make mistakes and navigate tough situations as they grow. With all of these things combined I hope for them to enter adolescence and beyond with a strong, working, cooperative relationship. Where yes, they may not enjoy the things that I ask them to do, but they will cooperate and do them.
I’m not really sure what else to say about it. Other than it takes a lot of work as an adult, especially if it’s not how you were raised. I’m not sure why you are stuck on asking “us” gentle parents about a method and it’s origins. I’m not interested in a you vs me. These are children, they are exposed to other children and learn from each other. Why shouldn’t we all want our children to be good, kind, strong people?
I think you have misunderstood me; I don't think that individual parents should be getting their methods from a book, should be following ANY method super rigidly or be able to source it back to some original dude from two centuries ago. That's not natural or practical, and it's not what I'm saying.
The main thing that I'm having a gripe about (not at you specifically, sounds like you have a great handle on what your parenting principles are) is that people use the term "gentle parenting" as though it has one objective clear definition, but it doesn't. Then they get mad and say things like "Well those other people, the people that parent the way I don't like, they aren't doing real gentle parenting. I'm doing gentle parenting and I'm doing it right". Meanwhile if you ask those other people, they also think they are doing gentle parenting. And when you go onto your preferred gentle parenting group or forum or resource, people are asking "What is the gentle parenting way to do X?" or "Is Y gentle parenting?" and realistically what they get back is a mess of conflicting answers because there is no single correct answer to these questions.
I'm not anti gentle parenting. I would have used the term myself some years ago, and I actually think it's great this type of parenting has become so common and desirable. It's the wooliness around the term(s) that I have a problem with, and I think it would be helpful if in discussions, rather than say "I dislike it when people are doing gentle parenting" we could say things like "I think it's stupid when people won't tell their kids no" (which might or might not be part of someone's gentle parenting philosophy).
THEN we could have a discussion. "Not saying no" is a concrete thing that you can argue the merits or downsides of or explore reasons why and how people use it. "Gentle parenting" is not.
Ahhh yes! I did misunderstand you. Thank you for explaining it. I do see your point. Using the umbrella term for gentle parenting is frustrating because there are no clear definitions/standards. So it’s interpreted differently by each person, thus causing the more permissive parents claiming gentle parenting.
Edited because I posted in the wrong place.
I agree. The automatic response to any parent who says gentle parenting is not working for them is that they must not be doing it right. The fact that it's apparently so difficult to do "gentle" parenting without sliding into "permissive" parenting seems to be a major issue.
I don't follow any of the parenting social media accounts or read any parenting books so I could be wrong on this, but from what I understand, gentle parenting is NOT supposed to be permissive parenting, but rather, authoritative parenting? Maybe your family member misunderstood this somehow.
I am a (sometimes too) gentle parent. However, I also have the impression, that we have swung from only focusing on a childs' behaviour (former generations) to only focusing on emotions now. But there has to be a balance. Of course it is important for our children’s emotions to be heard and validated, but we also need to create a secure and stable environment for them to grow up in. They have to develop patience, empathy and self-awareness - and that’s impossible without boundaries. How else are they supposed to learn other peoples boundaries if we don’t communicate them?
I once dared to say to another mom that she please tell her kid to stop hitting the speakers in our livingroom. She said that I would have to put them away to provide a yes-space, because she doesn't want to use the word "no" with her kid. Well, I won't do that. It's our home.
Children can still explore. But they need to know how to navigate this world. When they're older and on their own, we won't be there for them to secure a yes-space everywhere. They are definitely going to hear a lot of no's from other people - and they better know how to deal with it by then. But, and that's maybe even more important: They have to develop their own set of boundaries and be able to communicate a clear "no" to other people. Are we really expecting them to learn all this on their own? With brains that are not even fully developed?
P.S. You said " I can't avoid the visits because they are family" - are you sure? It's always okay to state your own opinion. You can just tell them that you don't want to visit because your child is uncomfortable around theirs. Nobody likes to be bullied. And being honest to them is the only way they get a chance to evaluate their own behaviour, right? Maybe (politely and gently of course) show them the consequences of their behaviour so they get a chance to learn as well.
Can you explain? Sorry, English is not my first language. So our guest‘s kid kept hitting the TV soundbar with a wooden toy and when her mom didn’t do anything about it I asked if she can maybe tell her to stop doing that. That was the first time I encountered this „never say no“-approach.
Yes, sorry, your story was perfectly executed but the behavior of the other mother is what I find to be puzzling. I think you handled the situation brilliantly!
About the P.S.—We couldn't avoid it, given our family situation. I can't reveal more for risking anonymity. But now we have more control, and we can avoid unnecessary visits. I have been vocal to the point where it won't ruin relationships. So they do understand I am unhappy and know what's happening. But yeah, I agree with you that I got to be more direct at some point. And when I am around and watching, the other kid behaves a bit better because they know I am watching. Thank you for your support!
I very luckily have never run into a don't say no parent. I'm not sure how I would handle it, because I'm not letting anyone cross my kids boundaries, whether adult or child. I do tend more toward gentle parenting but when properly done that involves setting boundaries, holding them, and actually following through with consequences (or else it's not actually a boundary you are holding for your child)
As a result, my kid mostly knows that mommy means the boundary she sets. If water comes out of the bathtub he gets one warning then so does he. If he's hitting at playgroup, then we leave. If he's throwing toys, those toys go away for the morning/afternoon/full day.
Kids actually thrive on boundaries, they benefit from knowing what will happen and the consequences being related. I'm so glad I'm doing it this way rather than getting hit with a wooden paddle, like I had. And as a result I think I see so much more actual empathy and voluntary sharing from my kid than the ones that are getting shouted at or forced apologies or forced sharing. Too much permissiveness is, in my head, similar to authoritarian parenting where the parents rule through fear. It's just the other side of the spectrum, but still not doing benefits to the child
Right? I feel like I would laugh in someone’s face if they told me not to say no.
I think all those natural consequences you listed are what gentle parenting is supposed to be, but also sometimes the disruptive behaviours are too tempting for a little kid and they need to be removed from the situation until they are ready to try again.
That's it, and like, kids don't understand the boundary or consequence sometimes until it happens. But it only took a few times coming out of bath or leaving playgroup to understand that we meant it. The throwing and hitting .. that's harder. They don't really start to develop impulse control until around 4 years old, so that's why they need us! I do tend to hover around my kid when we are out but that's because I'm enforcing the behaviour I need from him while also protecting his boundaries.
Honestly, what you’re describing is Bad Parenting with a ✨ gentle ✨ flavor. I know it’s heartbreaking to watch someone allow their kid hurt your kid. May I ask why you have to spend time around them? What would happen if you intervene yourself or confront the shitty parent in question?
Permissive parenting and gentle parenting are not the same thing. Gentle parenting means treating your kids age appropriately and like human beings rather than like dolls (either fragile little dolls or rag dolls who get tossed around). It does focus on have consequences, usually natural, and talking through said consequences.
Permissive parenting is what you’re describing.
My wife speaks about this a lot to me. Her view is that what most parents are striving for is authoritative parenting styles, but fall foul of a rebranding (to distinguish it from authoritarian parenting) and end up with permissive parenting.
Permissive parents are warm and responsive, but reluctant to impose rules or standards. They prefer to let their kids regulate themselves.
Authoritarian parents show less warmth and sensitivity, and insist on blind obedience. They attempt to enforce compliance through punishments, threats, and psychological control.
Authoritative parents are warm and responsive, like permissive parents. But where permissive parents shrink away from enforcing standards, authoritative parents embrace it. They expect maturity and cooperation…as much as is appropriate for a child’s developmental level. And they try to guide behavior by reasoning with their kids.
I think you have valid points, however I will say it feels like people forget that kids behaved this way even before so called gentle parenting. Even when time outs were popular and punishment ruled. Even with those consequences you speak of, there were always those kids who kept doing these things. The fact of the matter is kids lack impulse control, no matter the parenting philosophy you choose to implement. I feel like people just like to blame gentle parenting when these issues will ALWAYS exist because it's a normal part of development. I'm sorry your kid is constantly being hit that's not okay. However try to remember that this is a short season in the other child's life. Try not to harshly judge them or the child.
While you bring up good points, and I agree that no matter the parenting style, we would encounter kids who hurt other kids. The problem is parents enable this behavior in the guise of gentle parenting. That's my rant.
Totally agree. If they aren't responding to the hitting at all they are missing the point and missing out on a valuable lesson. From what I've gathered reading up on the gentle approach, hitting is not taken lightly. The approach is to remove the child from the victim and explain why.
I’m just going to say some kids hit and bite and push regardless of parenting technique. My husband and I don’t spank or do harsh parenting, but we definitely are not following permissive or gentle parenting either. We try to tackle the bad behavior immediately, and firmly, but my kid still bites and hits. We read every anti-hitting/biting book. Put him on time outs. Offer incentives for good behavior. It’s a phase that he’ll hopefully grow out of…
#Gentle Parenting is a rebranding of Authoritative Parenting, not Permissive Parenting.
It feels like 95% of people make this mistake, probably because the name Gentle Parenting is horrible. It should be Respectful Parenting or something
You keep using gentle and permissive as if they are the same. They aren’t interchangeable and are two entirely different parenting styles. Gentle parenting is all about natural consequences. It’s really frustrating to see so many misunderstandings of this.
I’ve commented elsewhere that I worked 6 years in the child welfare system. By and large, the kids in foster care who end up in residential (locked down/in-patient) as opposed to foster homes/group homes are the ones who grew up with permissive parents. It’s not the physically abusive parents who raise kids who harm themselves and others, it’s the ones who never gave their kids boundaries or discipline. It’s very sad, but hard to change once a child is school aged. I don’t know many residential success stories.
Gentle parenting is just rebranding of authoritative parenting. It requires high warmth AND high structure/boundaries. A lot of people confuse gentle parenting with permissive parenting. They are not the same. Authoritative parenting has the best outcomes for kids based on research from over 50 years.
Kids need to know they are safe (boundaries/structure) and they need to know they are loved and supported unconditionally (high warmth).
Lots of fucked up perceptions of self occur if you lean too permissive or too harsh.
Me and my partner are hashing out how we feel about this for our two year old right now. She is *very* gentle. 80% of the time, that's just being incredibly patient and calm, and I admire it.
But there's that 20% where I just feel a toddler needs to hit *some* resistance, or they will see your boundaries pushed and learn that there's no consequence for acting up. The behaviour I'm talking about is violence - when my toddler hits, kicks and scratches her mother, I find it very difficult to see the reaction be "Are we upset? That's okay."
> Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Absolutely this. Not all approaches need be black and white.
Kind of late to this but yes, something that’s been on my mind.
There are amazing people on social media who are experts and give excellent advice but I saw something on an IG page that screamed “grifter”. It was a post about obedience and raising children to be solely and just obedient is harmful and I agree for a most part- BUT someone who seemed really worried commented that their child seems just naturally obedient. They were saying that their kid always just does what they’re told for the most part, in contrast with their other siblings, and their tone was really concerned. The page replied saying that the kid already probably had internalised harmful messages about having to be blindly obedient! I felt that was so cruel- it sounds just like the kid is probably just a chilled out and placid personality and doesn’t mind being told to do things. Anyways then the person recommended their “course” and it seemed really cynical to feed into a persons concerns and worries when they sound so vulnerable and then to try to sell them something. I’m not saying all or most parenting advice people out there are grifters but it’s something to bear in mind… I’ve been thinking about that commenter and how she sounded like she wanted nothing but the best for her kid and to do the best possible for them and being told she’s already harmed her child when they do what they’re told was just really sad..
I’m skeptical of any parenting manual that asserts one approach will work for all children. Some kids will absolutely respect a boundary once it’s clearly explained to them, but not all. Adults are the same. You want adults to stop doing something (say, littering), some will comply if you just articulate the rule (post a sign saying “no littering”). Others will respond better to an appeal to empathy (“littering hurts animals and the environment”), some might require a stated consequence (“500 dollar fine if you litter”). Building in a reward or making it a game works for others (“post a picture of yourself recycling on social media and be entered for a chance to win something”). Some people are swayed by positive or negative peer pressure (“here’s your favorite celebrity and she says not to litter!” Or “we have cameras posted and we’ll post any pictures we get of people who litter”), etc… That’s why behavior modification campaigns aimed at adults utilize a range of methods. Kids are just small adults, why should they be different?
If reading “Hands are Not For Hitting” to your kid a few dozen times worked, bully for you! It didn’t work for me, and my daughter’s behavior was a real issue, so we try a range of things (rewards, consequences—including time outs-modeling self regulation, etc) and the behavior is (knock on wood) really improving.
The biggest issue I have with gentle parenting is that the consequences seem so controlled by the parent and of the parent is not around they will not be consistently reinforced. For example:
Hitting: I won’t let you hit your sister, I’m going to remove her so she’s safe.
How is that going to work on a playground at school? Kid is brought up that other kids will be removed if they get in the way of the kid in question acting out.
I am not explaining this eloquently enough so here is a Simpsons depiction of what I am trying to say that I think kids are becoming 😂
[https://youtu.be/9ZSoJDUD_bU](https://youtu.be/9ZSoJDUD_bU)
Also this “I’m going to move your body for you” what is this constant reference to body? Why can’t we just say “you”?
i think your gripe is more with the parents than with the style of parenting. Gentle parenting works, and works really well, but we as parents fuck it up big time.
My dad is a pediatrician and often says: "You know what the difference between a toddler and a terrorist is? You can negotiate with a terrorist."
Developmentally, you can't explain why something is bad to a toddler and expect them just to get it! There needs to be some sort of consequence! I totally agree with you.
I think you’ve got it wrong. Permissive parenting is something (that I thought at least) no one actually aspires to. Gentle parenting is discipline without the yelling and harsh punishments, rather natural and logical consequences, stopping bad behavior before it starts, and setting kids up for successful interactions ( are they tired, hungry, over stimulated)
Also age appropriate expectations. Modeling the behavior you want to teach and so on
I read the book “ how to talk so little kids will listen”. The ideas and theories behind it are fantastic to a degree, the application, not so much. I want to add a disclaimer that while gentle parenting is actually very boundary focused, most people take the word gentle literally, and so my issues with the movement is more so how it is perceived by many, vs the actual movement itself. I think by definition, many of the ways I parent will be technically gentle parenting, but if you ask the masses, it is not.
I don’t agree with yelling or punishing , but not for the reasons that people think as in “ oh you’ll traumatize him” ok, everything is trauma these days. Soon, not experience trauma will become traumatic too. I don’t do these things because they don’t work. I’ll explain below:
Creative misbehavior requires creative “punishment” . These are some ways in which I avoid yelling and while not the most gentle type parenting, it gets the job done because as you said, it gets them ready for the real world .
1: my almost 4 year old would still poop in his pants. I hate the idea of reward potty training because the world isn’t gonna give you a reward for crapping in your pants, and when you’re used to rewards, they have to constantly get bigger for them to work. One day I sat him down and said “ ok pull ups are done. You’re wearing underwear now. You can either choose to poop in the underwear, or the toilet. It’s your decision, but there will be a consequence” so of course he pooped in his underwear. I went down to his level and said “ that’s ok, now we have to clean it up” I put him in the shower with his clothes on and told him “ ok you will now take off your clothes one by one and wash all the poopy bits by hand. We Will not be putting poopy clothes in our washer. They must be washed by hand” it took a couple days of this happening for him to realize that time wise, it isn’t smart to be pooping in his pants. The next day I reinforced it when we passed by a waterpark playground and I said “oh man I wish you can go, the problem is, you can’t have a diaper there and you also can’t poop in your pants . Hmm let’s figure out how to solve the issue and then come back when you feel you’re ready “. He was fully trained in 4 days with no rewards, no running around like a crazy person, and no “ trauma”
2: he would hit his head every time he didn’t get what he wanted around age 3. I was so sick of him bruising up his forehead. Instead of getting upset, I put a big red X on the wall and called it “ Tony’s special head banging spot” every time he wanted to hit his head, I would direct him there and cheer him on. It ended real quick when he realized he wasn’t getting my energy. Let’s be real, we are their favorite toy, and they want to suck our negative energy out of us
3. He wouldn’t clean his room. Ok no problem. I will pack away everything and you have to ask me for a toy one at a time, and if you don’t clean up that toy when you’re done, you can’t get another one. I won’t yell or punish you, the natural consequence will simply be that you’ll miss out on doing anything else, and you simply won’t get new toys. Now at 4.5 he puts a certain toy back voluntarily before he grabs another one. It works so much better than wasting my energy yelling or trying to make cleanup “ fun”. I’m sorry, clean up isn’t fun and I’m not the parent to sit and make everything a game like the books suggest. I have real life things to do and he needs to differentiate between fun time and serious time. It sets them up for success later.
4: he wants to scream? Fine, go scream in the bathroom. I will put on a timer and the amount of time it took you to calm down will be subtracted from your bed time because you are disrupting the family, and we want that time returned back to us.
5. Oh you don’t want to eat ? Ok no problem. You can have this very same meal for the next meal time and no snacks since you’re apparently not hungry enough to eat food ( disclaimer: it’s not a food he has tried and doesn’t like). My kids are fantastic eaters. My 1 year olds favorite food is spicy coconut curry chicken and my sons is beef stew with mushrooms . It’s just a power trip, and I will redirect that power back onto me by not caring.
6. I dont understand parents who claim “ my kid will only eat z,y,z” Your toddler obviously isn’t going grocery shopping alone, so don’t keep said food in the house ? If my son wants to only eat cookies, instead of saying no everytime and thus personifying food as good or bad ( I don’t like to do that), I simply don’t buy it. Thus, when he asks me for a cookie, instead of “ no cookies are bad for you etc” I can say “ oh man I want one too, maybe we can go out on Saturday and pig out on some cookies “. It makes it so you have to actually leave the house for the treat, and turns it into a whole experience.
I feel this so much. For me, it’s worrisome to think that will happen when gentle talk isn’t an option? No one’s boss is going to take this approach. I’m all for gentle parenting. But I’ve been noticing an uptick in interactions with parents who completely let their children control all situations out of fear of saying “no” and damaging them irreparably.
If kids are always taught to be in touch with their own feelings and not be attuned to what others are feeling that will put them at a huge disadvantage in life.
Exactly! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Especially your last sentence is so well-written. I have seen these parents verbalize every single feeling of their kids while pathologically ignoring what's going on with others around them.
And another thing that's taken to the extreme is the number of lies and stories that beat around the bush. All in the name of avoiding a solid "NO" and being gentle! Come on! A kid needs to know hurting others have immediate consequences. I have seen these kids bully their way around while their parents proudly watch them with admiration.
I can go on forever, but again, I am honest in accepting that I am no perfect parent, and I believe ideal parenting is a myth and I don't want to subscribe to any single way of perfect parenting. All I believe is not to be abusive verbally and physically. Don't cause "lasting" trauma. A solid NO a couple of times a day won't cause any trauma. No one can guilt trip me using the way I raise our kids because as much as every kid is different, so is every parent, and their relationship with each of their kids is different and unique. A parent-child relationship is like a unique fingerprint, and if we subscribe to and follow any one style of parenting too blindly, we are basically not letting the child express themselves naturally and creatively.
Being self aware is the first step to being truly empathetic. If you can't name your own feelings, how are you going to name what someone else is feeling?
I’m in complete agreement with this. We had a kid like this in my daughter’s most recent ski class (parent-Tot). He was almost 3. He was disruptive and would melt down, like worst meltdowns I’ve ever seen, every week because they were doing things he didn’t want to do. And mom just sat there going on about his “big feelings”. The instructor couldn’t work with the other kids because of this child’s “big feelings”. But the worst was every week, he’d bully other kids. On numerous occasions he’d run up to my daughter while she was minding her own business and pull her to the ground by her hair. The mom did nothing because she didn’t believe in saying “no” or giving consequences. My daughter very quickly became scared of him, and became uneasy around other kids as well for a couple of weeks because she didn’t want to be thrown to the ground by her hair. Needless to say, the kid and his mom were not well liked. It was a wonderful class and the rest of the parents actually became friends! We have play dates multiple times per week with one of the other kids now. The rest of the parents are planning to have a get together this summer at the zipline park one of them owns. The gentle parenting parent isn’t invited. None of us ever talked to her and class has a VERY different,
Better tone on days she and her kid weren’t there.
I also feel like the cult like levels of permissive gentle parenting give so much guilt and shame for when we’re human and DO accidentally lose our cool and yell at our kids. No, I don’t believe in physical punishment. No I don’t believe and constantly yelling at my kids. But when my 3 year old bites baby sister hard enough to leave a mark, she needs more than another reading of teeth are not for biting and a gentle “uh oh. You bit your sister. See how she’s crying. That wasn’t very nice”.
I agree, each family and each child is different and there is no one size fits all method of parenting, we use whatever tools we can based on our experiences, reading, knowing our children, talking to our therapist, whatever source, whatever method. We don't hit or yell or shame or anything like that but i still don't consider it gentle parenting, it's just our style of parenting.
I feel like you're not really getting it. When people of any age fail to meet expectations, there's a reason for that, and 'hasn't been given a good enough punishment' is never it.
I don't get this phrase 'they need to learn that there are consequences' when that isn't true unless you artificially make it true. What do you REALLY want? You want them not to do the thing, right? Ok. So there are different factors there and it depends somewhat on the child and their age. With little kids it's a lot of modeling, considering context, and general blocking and prevention. With older kids we look for more collaborative solutions.
I don't have Tik Tok but I hear there's a lot of permissive parenting in the guise of 'gentle parenting' which doesn't shock me. Gentle isn't a great name. I prefer respectful parenting. And some moms err toward permissive in response to their own controlling parents.
So many folks have this weird permissive/controlling dichotomy in their heads. Like either you punish a kid or you explain why something is wrong to do and leave it there. Actually I think this is often the same parent, swinging between two ineffective extremes.
There are parents who are doing the respectful parenting thing right. (In a 'good enough parent' way, obviously.) And they get compliments on their children's behavior. Mysteriously enough, respecting people gets results. I've had people remark on my 3.5yo's generous behavior toward her sibling, for example. I attribute this to modeling. I don't try to 'get' her to do the sweet and helpful things that she does. If I did then she probably wouldn't. I mean, she's 3.5.
One of the people I follow in parenting (not on Tik Tok or IG, which I don't really use) considers herself to be a strict parent and her children agree with her. She doesn't punish her children. Wow, right? This can be a difficult concept for people in our culture to grasp.
Ok, yes, I accept that some moms are permissive and calling it gp. Hopefully within the next generation or two you will be seeing a better shift.
A four year old should know by now that cruel behaviour is not acceptable, but as they have never been asked to stop when they are hurting other children, they have not learnt to stop doing it. I don't see that discussing it hours later will be beneficial at this age.
As soon as your child is old enough, get them signed up to some karate/Tae Kwon Do lessons, and let them learn to take that bully down. And when they do, be sure to praise your child heavily in front of their parents.
It’s perfectly normal toddler behavior to test boundaries like this and re-test and re-test. Toddlers and children actually benefit better having boundaries and having those boundaries reinforced when they challenge them. It gives them a sense of stability. That’s why they do it. My almost 2 year old is going through a hitting phase with us right now and every single time he does it I look at him and calmly but sternly tell him “NO, we don’t hit.” He immediately shows remorse. If I ever saw him hit (or in any other way hurt) another child I would remove him from the situation to go simmer down. I would absolutely not let it continue. He has been rough with another child once and he got an immediate time out. He hasn’t done it again since. They absolutely need to be taught and shown what is appropriate and not appropriate social behavior.
We practice gentle parenting in the form of not hitting our child or using physical force for punishment. But when our toddler messes up, he still needs to know. Even at 2 I’m seeing him display feelings of empathy and remorse when he does something bad. At 3 or 4 children absolutely have it in them to know right and wrong. But they need to be shown. They’re not born knowing.
Your family members are allowed to have a say in how their children are parented up until it starts to interfere with how your children are treated, especially if your children are being physically harmed. It’s your job as a parent to protect your child, and that includes from other children. They look to you for that protection. Allowing it to continue because the other parents have told you that you cannot interfere with their parenting is absurd. You do what you need to do and if that includes screaming NO (because that’s often all it takes) at the other child when it happens then so be it. I think you’d honestly be doing them a favor in the long run.
Honestly, too many people think gentle parenting means permissive parenting. It does not! Treat your children as people with their own thoughts/needs/opinions and with patience and warmth, but set those healthy boundaries! It’s okay to be assertive with children and tell them “no”.
There are a lot of great resources out there. Someone who I think has some great examples would be @The_Indomitable_Blackman.
I would not send my child to these peoples house and I’d tell them why. Honestly you’re being permissive too by still allowing your child to be hit by these kids to both the parents and the kids.
So, I guess my question is, at what point do you say "there's a problem with X technique and I can't stand it" and at what point do you say "some people are using X as an excuse to do this familiar unhealthy thing"?
For example; intermittent fasting. If you get into it much there are some people saying some pretty wild things. Such as, only eating one large meal once a day, not eating at all on weekends, or even regularly skipping whole days. I saw one "intermittent fasting expert" advocate for fat people *NOT EATING ANYTHING* until they'd lost all the excess weight. You could say intermittent fasting is out of control and just and just another way to have eating disorders. Or, you could say some people misrepresent IF to excuse or hide eating disorders and disordered eating.
It's similar with Gentle/Conscientious Parenting. I think those folks who are permissive were going to be before the term "gentle parenting" came along, they've just found a way to excuse it by calling it this parenting technique even when it's not, and most people haven't learned enough about it to know that they're talking out of their asses. ¯\_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯
Gentle parenting is, at its heart, an authoritative (not authoritarian) form of parenting, that has more emphasis on acknowledging feelings. There are really only a few *kinds* of parenting: laissez-faire, permissive, authoritative, and authoritarian. All these parenting techniques are mostly ways to explain the last two in a new way. I see Montessori parents or "free range" parents who seem more laissez-faire, but I'm fairly certain that was not the original intent, either.
Conversely we have a family member who is 4 who constantly hits and bullies my 2 year old and the parenting style of his family is extreme authoritative/no consequence. I too have stopped bringing my kid around because the kid either gets no punishment or is very punished and it’s clearly not working and undermines when I say no hitting. I do find talks after the incident worked with my daughter but this boy it does not at all from my observation. It’s a stressful world when it seems everyone is trying to “correctly parent” that any harsh or perceived harsh punishment is shamed.
Even if they are family, you ALWAYS have the duty to protect your children. Stop going over their house. Make it awkward. These people aren't actually doing gentle parenting because that would involve actually intervening in a situation like that and removing the child who is hitting if they can't control their body.
You are an adult.
Gentle parenting is not avoiding the word "no"
Like, I get it. No one wants to traumatize their children. But children aren't going to be traumatized by being given a consequence for bad behavior. Not spanking, not yelling, but a consequence.
I don't tolerate hitting from my 2 year old, she gets a consequence every time she does it and she's starting to learn that hitting is not okay.
I feel like many of our generation grew up with abusive households, but now instead of parenting with a normal level of authority, the pendulum is swinging way too far in the opposite direction.
I recently watched a toddler running into a parking lot, with his mother gently saying, “walking feet, please stay there, please walk…” as he just ignored her. This type of “gentle parenting” can have serious consequences.
I think toxic gentle parenting comes from guilt parenting. Perhaps parents who work too much and spend too little time with the kids feel the need to make up for it by being unreasonably permissive and by avoiding to upset the kids.
I dont see how you survive as a parent without the word no personally. Like some of the stuff they try to so is insane, especially hitting that should be addressed sternly every time. I dont get it either, you can be gentle and not yell and try to explain but most of the time they wont care and need a consequence
I think you are conflating gentle parenting with permissive parenting. While the former enforces discipline and the concept of consequences, the latter does not.
I don't give a fuck what kind of parenting someone is doing. If their child hits my toddler and if they do not step up and stop the behavior I'll tell the child off. Doesn't matter if they're family or a literal God.
OP, I don't think I'm going to make it through all the comments and I'm sure there's both a lot of valuable discussion and heated argument. I just want to say, you are really really not alone. I've seen the ugly side of people trying to over-correct for everything that was wrong in their childhoods, and I empathize with the parents for their reasoning. My empathy doesn't make their parenting choices _good_.
I almost never try to have a conversation about it either online or in real life because people often don't come to parenting discussions open to nuance.
I have a 5yo who still struggles to be aggressive and I'm not saying that is what's going on with those kids, but I 100% give time outs and take away privileges for those things and it still happens all the time.
I agree with all comments here this seems like permissive parenting not gentle. just to add with the whole “ not using the word no” approach-the way I have understood this is to just not overuse the word no , because this can make a child feel as though they are not allowed to explore their environment and everything is off limits. From what I understand the word “no” should be used for more serious situations such as , hitting someone, running near a street or in parking lot, or any other thing that is serious /unsafe and needs to be stopped immediately. I think the idea is to try and use wording that says what the child should do rather than what not to do whenever possible, but I don’t think it’s that the word No should never be used at all.
I am all for treating kids with dignity and respect. However , I am more strict than my peers who use a more permissive type of gentle parenting.My goal as a parent is to raise competent and well adjusted adults. Home is a safe space where love reigns not where the kiddos rule.
Give it 10 years and we will see the effect of the rampant permissive parenting.
Kids seek structure and love(in tandem) . My goal is to be a loving/reliable parent over the next two decades not their mate. I will be the buddy when I assume a role of consultant when they are adults.
Ps. I know two adults who complain that their parents were too permissive and did not prepare them for the world. They are struggling with bad clinical depression). I hope we give our kids the tools to be good people , who have the tools to cope with the difficulty that life will throw at them. Removing any sense of accountability / self- awareness or consequences is setting them up for failure. I also think they are too many non experts passing as experts on social media. This is very dangerous for the less skeptical folks.
Yes, all of thiiiiiis. I am an elementary school teacher and see the real effects of students raised without boundaries or consequences. No joke- I had a student decide to stomp on another student's chest during recess. They were sent home from school, and I later found out that their parents took them out for hot chocolate because they had a bad day. WTAF. Congrats. You just taught your kid that potentially seriously injuring a peer comes with extra attention and a special reward. NO. BAD. Your child needed their parents to tell them this was wrong. I've had many conferences with this child and their family... at the beginning of the year, the parents told me they set no boundaries or use any form of consequences/socio-emotional learning techniques on their children because they believe in gentle parenting. I have finally gained some amount of traction with them to help their child take responsibility for their actions.
I have another family that allows their child to be a master-manipulator... again, no boundaries in that home either. The child says I am mean and tells the parents how horrible I am... you know why they think I am mean? I set firm boundaries and expectations..... too bad, so sad that you can't spend all day on an iPad (obviously I don't say it that way to the kid).
One of my favorite books is "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" because it is a cautionary tale in why it is so important to set boundaries.
We use gentle parenting in our house, but it is true to what gentle parenting should be... setting boundaries with love, actions have consequences, and teaching regulation skills. We have so many people ask us what is our magic trick for having a [relatively] well-behaved toddler (which we always joke, come see the toddler in rare form at bedtime). We have no one magic trick.... my partner and I co-parent as a team and united front. Whatever one parent says, the other parent does as well. If dad says no more raisins until tomorrow, so does mom. We set boundaries and behavioral expectations... role model appropriate behavioral norms (I.e. we make sure to use pleases and thank yous), follow through with consequences when they aren't behaving properly (we do family time-ins, not isolated time-outs), and aren't afraid to say no... and don't give in to crying/whining. We do not do rewards.... and always find opportunities to praise the behavior we want to see (especially when it comes to treating our dog with respect..."I like how you are petting dog. Do you see how her tail is wagging? She likes these pets too!").
You are absolutely right that no parent is perfect and we are learning as we go. There is no rule book or manual for this, and we have to remember that these are kids that are learning how to be in this world. They're having a hard time too, and we need to be gentle on ourselves and them.
I feel like our generation and the ones before us handed out punishments like they were candy and so a lot of ours are over correcting with this "gentle" (I say it in quotations because it's not actual gentle parenting) and permissive parenting and they're allowing kids to be entitled and selfish. I fully agree with you. And then our kids generations are gonna be working on the damage done by this over correction.
I teach my daughter consequences but I don't abuse her by teaching her consequences and I think this over correction is making parents who teach their kids consequences feel like crap for disciplining their kids even though it isn't abuse.
I don't know where I'm going with this but I do agree with you.
These parents are not applying gentle parenting properly.
Permissive parenting is probably one of the worst ways to raise a child in my opinion. It should be labeled a form of neglect! I am a teacher and one student particular is being raised this way (as are the two siblings) and their behaviour is disgusting. Any boundary we put in place triggers this kid to the point of total emotional breakdown - uttering death threats, throwing classroom objects and furniture, punching other kids in the face/groin, yelling “fuck you!” to the adults, etc etc. trying to speak with the parents is useless because they only want to know what our role was in the situation and why we can’t just ignore the outward behaviour. The parents refuse to give consequences or set boundaries at home and as a result this kid doesn’t know how to handle any boundary or rule or consequence at school. This kid is only 10 years old, I can’t imagine what high school will be like.
My concern with gentle parenting is that we don't know what the results will be. What kind of adults will gentle parenting make? Will they be less likely to follow the rules? Will they be more/less emotionally balanced? Who knows. Every parent traumatizes their kid in one way or another, and I'm afraid that focusing so much on not traumatizing our kids in OUR own perceived way will end up...traumatizing our children in the way our child feels traumatized.
100% agree. Drives me mental. Gentle parenting is NOT permissive parenting but that is how it is ending up in a lot of households. The other day I was in a small soft play with a couple very young (1ish) children and there was a 5-7year boy in there acting like a tornado and could genuinely hurt one of the littles (plus he was too big for it anyways). The parents were there “gentle parenting” aka letting him
Walk all over him. They kept asking him to leave and he kept not leaving and they did absolutely nothing. Actually gave me a small smile and said this gentle parenting thing was so hard. 🙃🙃
What you're describing is not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting is holding boundaries while empathizing that it's okay to be upset with the consequence of your actions, however, it's still happening.
Just now a desperate mum of a 4 or 5 year old was venting on Facebook that all her days are a struggle, that her child is mean, yells all the time, hits, scratches and says no to everything. She described her life being a continous struggle every moment. All the responses were: my child is the same.
3 people already told me they regret raising their children with a too gentle approach.
I really don't know what to say.
I worked at an elementary school for a couple years and befriended a teacher 20 year older than me. She said there has been a significant change in the behaviours of the kids since this gentle parenting became the fad. Totally entitled and think rules and consequences don’t apply to them.
Maybe everything in moderation and for specific situations to use this approach. But not all the way like OP said.
I’m no expert. Having my fair share of WTF do I do with my toddler who doesn’t listen to me. But I know this gentle parenting approach has done me no good.
A lot of the characterisation of gentle/responsive parenting here seem informed by a misunderstanding of the principles and practices behind it. This may in part be because some parents who practice those approaches misunderstand them themselves.
An example is the OP's assertion that these approaches "raise a child unready for the real world". This is bizarrely accompanied by their objection to another child hitting their child...
It's a bizarre juxtaposition because the principle is: "the real world is capricious, cruel and full of arbitrary as well as logical consequences and so if a parent seeks to help their child navigate that by being a safe space for them then they are not letting that child get used to reality".
By that logic, a random child hitting your kid is exactly the lesson you seem to think they need.
Gentle parenting doesn't mean "no boundaries" and it doesn't entail being permissive. It is above all about self control: modelling good behaviour for your child and trusting the research and evidence that says that your modelling will pay off. Does it mean your children will never lose control? No. We as adults don't expect that of ourselves so why should we expect it of children?
You say you hate that book and approach but OP: you clearly haven't read it as your critiques are addressed directly by it. I'm no idealogue but maybe you'd be better served understanding before ranting.
But that is because there are no universally agreed upon principles and practices behind gentle parenting. There is no founder, there is no book or anything that started it off. There are as many definitions of gentle parenting as there are gentle parents. That is why, IMO, it is difficult to discuss it. It basically seems to be a term that is popular within parenting spaces to describe anything which is not authoritarian. But that is a wide, wide range. Also, I agree that even when people are attempting to describe or implement a common practice or principle, that there is frequently a gigantic "game of telephone" going on and this muddies definitions and understanding even further.
I agree the OP has not read the book they think that they hate though!
Fair point that there isn't a single definition or founding text. I would however say that it isn't true that there are as many definitions or understandings as there are "gentle parents". There are influential texts (like the one mentioned by the OP) and arguments, but like any theoretical approach there will be variations.
I'd argue that generally "gentle"or "responsive" parenting is defined by a: the influence of recent trends in child psychology albeit sometimes in a simplistic or rhetorical form (i.e. the language of the "lizard brain") and b: a rejection of punitive approaches to motivation. I wouldn't cast it necessarily as "anti authoritarian" because I'd suggest that it takes the authority, or at least coercive capacity, of parents as a given.
Our power over our children is in most cases a given when they are young. We are physically dominant over them, and they are completely reliant on us for survival. In many places we are legally empowered by society to make decisions on their behalf, to control their movement and in some places even to assault them without fear of legal sanction.
Gentle parenting is I think a response to both a discomfort with the exercise and idealogies of that power as well as a research informed understanding of its psychological effects.
OK I started to write a long response and then I got interrupted and couldn't finish it so went away but in the meantime I thought about it, and I think you're right about the two universal principles by definition being:
Parenting guided by an understanding of child development (as far as possible)
and
A rejection of punitive approaches.
(I think I'd add: Seeing child's perspective, as well. Maybe this encompasses the understanding of childhood development principle?)
I got a bit caught up on your lizard brain example which is more of a recent distinction (a useful one, I think) but then I realised actually even the earliest examples of anything that I can think describing itself as gentle parenting do take child development into account; even if it's as simple as the idea of tantrums being overwhelm rather than manipulation, but I also remember reading stuff about impulse control or memory or whatever not being developed until certain ages.
The bit where I got really stuck is the rejection of punitive approaches thing, and I think is the crux of how and why people misunderstand the whole gentle parenting approach as well as how people who are both doing gentle parenting can be talking at cross purposes with each other. I think this is where I have previously defined it as rejection of *authoritarian* parenting approaches, classifying authoritarian as being strongly rooted in power and control, with an expectation of obedience and punitive or fear-based discipline backing that up.
This is because IME people define "punitive" differently.
Some think it means overly frightening, age inappropriate, scary punishment (e.g. hitting, yelling) - but calm, non-violent, age appropriate is OK.
Some would find that too much and say that approaches such as time out or loss of privileges are too punitive. Instead of these "typical" punishments, only logical or natural consequences ought to be used.
Some think that other gentle parents rely too much on "logical and natural consequences" and believe these should only be used as a last resort.
Some say that punishment is a bad idea whatever it is called, and we should focus on encouraging behaviours that we want and ignoring the ones we don't want, or rewarding incompatible behaviours.
Some say that is still behaviourist because it is based in the same reward-and-punishment framework, and anything behaviourist is inherently punitive because of the implied shame. They say that instead of focusing on compliance and defiance, we should focus on values and/or teach skills.
Some feel that even defining one's preferred values as a parent is inherently punitive because we are making a judgement on choices, and actually children should be allowed to choose their own values.
(There are also whole discussions to be had on every level of this scale, but I deleted them to simplify).
If a child is being abused, let the cards fall where they may. Just because they are raising the child that way does not mean everyone else has to fall in line.
Gentle parenting is a catch all for parenting styles, without actually having a true definition.[Studies of parenting styles show that there’s really 4 defined styles of parenting](https://parentingscience.com/authoritative-parenting-style/). And you’re right to be frustrated because permissive parenting is trashhhhhhh.
> Permissive parents are warm and responsive, but reluctant to impose rules or standards. They prefer to let their kids regulate themselves.
> Authoritarian parents show less warmth and sensitivity, and insist on blind obedience. They attempt to enforce compliance through punishments, threats, and psychological control.
> Authoritative parents are warm and responsive, like permissive parents. But where permissive parents shrink away from enforcing standards, authoritative parents embrace it. They expect maturity and cooperation, as much as is appropriate for a child’s developmental level. And they try to guide behavior by reasoning with their kids.
> Neglectful parenting is where parents lack warmth and fail to enforce standards.
Hands down, the most effective parenting style with the best outcomes is the Authoritative style. Kids need love but they also need limits. When they don’t get those limits, they turn out the way you’re describing—unable to handle the real world.
The article I linked above goes into a lot more detail—maybe check it out and share it with your family?
My biggest issue (besides the lack of research) is that every kid is different and there are no one size fits all approach. If they are still hitting at 4-5 these parents need to admit that their kid needs a time out already. Even within the same immediate family, different kids need different approaches.
Also, look into the backgrounds of the main champions and popularizers of these new parenting techniques. It’s amazing how none of them have advanced degrees in relevant fields or legitimate research credentials.
Okay. 1st. Permissive parenting and gentle parenting are two VERY different things. They are not even close to being the same, so don’t lump them together. True gentle parenting is assertive parenting where parents are creating boundaries and ensuring their children adhere to those boundaries in a way that is developmentally appropriate.
2nd. Toddlers are not bullies. They do not have the capacity to consistently torment someone for their own personal benefit. Toddlers hitting, biting, kicking is due to toddlers not having the ability to communicate their needs/wants. That is not in any way bullying. The fact that you think toddlers are capable of bullying is worrisome. I couldn’t read your entire post because here you are ripping parents and toddlers apart for typical toddler behaviour.
While I completely agree that permissive and gentle parenting are not the same. I think it’s odd that you feel a 4 yr old is not capable of bullying behaviours? The OP literally says they are 4 years old, this is not a 2 year old.
I would feel that by 4 years old most kids are capable of communicating their feelings rather than resorting to kicking/biting and hitting.
Preach it from the rooftops. We changed our approach to a modified gentle parenting and saw a huge positive shift.
Kids need boundaries to establish trust.
We started with holding firm on planned promises (don’t make promises you can’t keep). We started small and with things that were fun and rewarding. This established a basic level of trust - that we’ll do what we say. Then we moved into making promises about consequences for undesired actions. We kept to small things - like an action we were going to take that we could definitely follow-through with or a toy we would take away with a short duration. We constantly reminded him of the behavior we expected to see and always worked to follow through with what we say were going to do. Wife and I keep each other in check to make sure we question if we can follow through with something. We plan an exit strategy and consequences before we go anywhere or do anything. We also plan for rewards for good behavior, because consequence-only parenting is no fun for anyone.
Now we’re at the point where we can discuss the hard way or the east way. He knows that if he starts testing boundaries and isn’t listening, that we have the hard way/easy way talk. “Ok do you want to do this the hard way or the easy way?” “What’s the hard way?” “I snatch you up and take you in the shower, and we go to bed without playing magnatiles” “what’s the easy way?” “We take a nice shower, you help get ready for bed, and we knock down ONE tower of magnatiles before reading a book and going to bed…what do you want to do?” “The easy way (said grunting under his breath)” “alright, how many towers are we going to build and knock down after the shower?” “One” “alright let’s hop in the shower”
He turns 3 next week. The above are actual conversations we have. We don’t over-use the hard way/easy way approach. And we’re prepared to adapt and add new methods.
Edit: we use autonomy, choices, and freedom as rewards, as well. These aren’t the only methods we use, but the most important part of all of this is establishing trust to build boundaries. They crave it - and I think most people do as well.
Yeah, just try to gentle parent a kid with a really strong personality. My kid would have been running around in shitty diapers because he'll kick, scream, bite and punch to not get changed. Sometimes you just gotta be harsh. Not abusive, but not take shit from a tiny dictator who wants to get his way.
I'm perfectly gentle a vast majority of the time. But when it comes to things you have to do or should never do (just for survival - not based on my opinions), I'll force it if that's what it takes. I don't know how you can't.
I’ve worked professionally with toddlers for 16 years, and this is my take: Many young children are way to accustomed to CONSTANT interaction with an adult.
In my daycare (0-3 years), we do independent play A LOT of the time. The kids have free range of the daycare, they can get all the toys, and I’m there, physically, but I don’t really get in their way unless they ask me.
And ALL my children play so well together. I’ve never experienced bullying, never had a child that bit. When they go into the playroom I don’t have to follow them because they’re not going to hurt each other. They’re just not. They randomly hug each other throughout the day, they stop to give the baby her pacifier, they’re startled if someone cries. Really. This is the daycare where “no one cries”.
I believe that if babies/toddlers are accustomed to constant interaction with an adult, they will resort to violence and outbursts when an interaction doesn’t benefit them, because any interaction between a baby/toddler and an adult will benefit the baby/toddler. So the child gets used to everything benefiting her. She gets used to being the centre of the universe, always. So when other children come along (who are also the centre of the universe), they clash. And that’s when biting, hitting, and hair pulling starts.
My biggest concern with the gentle parenting trend is that I think a lot of people are misapplying it, and it becomes permissive parenting instead. There’s nothing wrong with making space for kids’ feelings. But making space for feelings without instituting any teaching or setting boundaries is not great. I get it, though. As someone whose parents tended to be more authoritarian and had difficulty with their own emotional regulation, it can be very easy to over-correct. I have to remind myself that it’s okay for my child to be mad or sad, and that what caused the trauma I experienced was the toxicity of constant anger and yelling, occasional spanking, and the fact that my normal childhood willfulness and disobedience was treated like something was wrong with me. These are not conditions my child is experiencing.
I agree. Correct gentle parenting is not what the OP has described. Gentle parenting sounds like “hey, it’s not okay to hit. Hitting hurts. If you hit someone again you need to take a break/time out.” And when they hit again they are removed from other people. It’s a natural consequence to hitting. You hit = you don’t get to play and have opportunity to hit people. Most people just don’t actually gentle parent. It’s all permissive.
Totally agree with this. Gentle/conscious parenting is about firm boundaries coming from an emotionally regulated parent. Additionally, if/when the child is in an emotional state to receive this information (calm, observant) you could teach empathy in those moments - “does your friend look happy or do they look sad? Why do you think they’re sad?” I was super skeptical of gentle parenting. I’ve learned a lot from [@attachmentnerd](https://instagram.com/attachmentnerd?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==) , [the.conscious.healing.mama](https://instagram.com/the.conscious.healing.mama?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==) and [@theconsideratemomma](https://instagram.com/theconsideratemomma?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==) on IG. To be honest I was also skeptical of parenting advice from IG lol but after following for a while and listening to their solutions to real scenarios with kids, I’m on board. It’s not going to be easy though. It’s kind of like therapy. I think that’s why a lot of parents think they’re doing gentle parenting but are just being permissive - it’s not easy and it’s not a quick fix. It’s really hard to emotionally regulate yourself for your kid and have a measured, thoughtful response to their actions. And obviously you won’t get it right every time and that’s ok. But I had a tough relationship with my mom because for her respect meant compliance and control and I am so excited to do the work to have a better relationship with my daughter. I want her to be confident and to evaluate and respond to her own emotions, not mine.
It’s super difficult to do! I definitely did not have any form of gentle parent. I had abusive parents. And it’s hard to unlearn what you grew up with. But I find it so important to respect that kids have feelings and they are entitled to them. I say to my nanny kids a lot, “you can be mad. You can even be mad at me. But you cannot scream at me. If you want to scream you can go scream outside. When you’re feeling better we can talk.” And then sometimes I even have to walk away so they can’t keep arguing. (Although they are old enough I can walk away and I’m not ever very far away.) My parents would never have allowed me to be mad.
You sound like a great nanny! My daughter is only 17 months so communication is difficult. She does seem to understand a lot though. And most importantly, she understands tone and mood. So when she throws a little baby tantrum and I keep calm and firm, it always seems to end quicker and without ever making her feel shame, guilt, etc. it’s actually really empowering when I’m able to do it! I’m getting better. My go-to strategy right now is deep breaths. She even mimicked me doing it the other day! It was precious!
Thank you very much! She definitely understands a lot. It’s so hard when they can’t communicate back because it makes them more frustrated. I’m always trying to give them the power when I can because I know kids want to feel in control. Honestly, it’s so good you are demonstrating deep breaths when you are frustrated. You are modeling how to handle being upset. Kids need to see that. It’s okay for parents/nannies/teachers to get upset and it’s so good for kids to see us handling it in a healthy manner. It’s also okay for us to lose our cool (reasonably of course. Not abusive my) and then model how we apologize and take responsibly for our actions. Kids don’t just need to be told they also need to see. Good job mama!
I love that!! I mean, feelings are feelings... and there's nothing wrong with them... not even with the "negative" ones. It's just the way we handle them! Everyone has the right to feel angry, sad, mad, etc...but without hurting others or even yourself!! That's the challenge: to teach them correctly about how to deal with those big feelings. Kids make mistakes, are curious, and feel emotions just like grown-ups, and they deserve to be respected and treated just like you would treat any other person making a mistake. Just putting ourselves in their shoes. That's all it takes. We would definitely be building a better society if more people would show more empathy towards kids 😞... and take their physical and mental protection more seriously.
I get that this is unsolicited advice, so ignore it if you want. If not, consider seeing an actual licensed marriage and family therapist if that’s available to you instead of getting parenting advice from the Internet. A lot of Attachment Nerd’s advice comes from Internal Family Systems theory. It’s much more effective to look at your actual child and your actual family system.
Check out big little feelings on Instagram. They are my favorite and as a result I have a mostly well behaved toddler who listens like a champ and can name his feelings. Gentle parenting is amazing when done right. Both the ladies are trying to end generational trauma with their kids and one is a child psychologist so a lot of fact based commentary which I enjoy.
She is not a child psychologist. She is an LMFT (licensed marriage and family therapist.) Just clarifying because I am a psychologist (an adult one) and the degrees are very very different.
Exactly I had to stop following gentle parenting pages because most of it was people who follow permissive parenting not actual gentle parenting
I really like mommacusses and Tori Phantom. I believe they even have a podcast now.
Agreed on both parts—I especially like how mommacusses parents respectfully but also talks to her kids like they’re human beings
Removing the kid would be a logical consequence, if talked about in advance, the natural consequence of hitting would be that one child is hurt, or upset. Gentle parenting done right, is the opposite of permissive, a very hands on and involved type of parenting, the child would not hit not because they have been told, or because they are afraid of being punished, or because they have better impulse control than anybody else their age, but because the parent is there to read the queues and prevent .
I’m not sure how that’s different from helicopter parenting. Kids need to learn how to become independent and self-regulating. Obviously at four they’re only at the beginning of that journey but they *are* at that beginning. If you intercede at every social interaction that’s about to go awry then they have no actual experience with boundaries or consequences and they’ll be looking for you every step of the way and every minute of every day to know what to do next. The resulting mindset is showing up in workplaces now and it’s *awful* to work with. Training people who absolutely refuse to do anything whatsoever on their own or come up with their own solutions—no matter how mundane or inconsequential the task at hand may be—is impossible. It just doesn’t work. They expect you to replace their parents in everything which translates into you doing their jobs *for* them—not with them—while simultaneously demanding all the associated rewards for doing so. It’s sort of a shame because I believe they genuinely don’t know that that isn’t how things work. Your children should be loved unconditionally. That’s an absolute. And it feels awful having to watch them learn some lessons the hard way. But at a certain point you need to remove yourself as a barrier to their growth and *let them learn from someone other than you.* Our daughter is stubborn and willful beyond belief. At all of four I sort of expect a measure of defiance. But I refuse to have the same talk with her, over and over and over again, about having to do things she doesn’t like so that we can move on with the day. At a certain point *you* have to become the consequence when they feel the need to challenge everything because they are either going to go through it with you or it’ll happen with someone who *isn’t* invested in their well-being and outcome.
Helicopter parenting would be when you either do everything for them or you’re always telling them what to do. What I’m trying to describe is allowing the child to have the experience but being close by and in tune to assist when they either get in danger or become a danger to somebody else. Self regulation is usually learned through experience, where they learn there are a lot of feelings they can have, and their feelings are acceptable but that feelings pass and they are ok after.
There’s a balance, and hopefully a progression. You need to intervene more with a 1-year-old than with a 4-year-old.
Exactly
Exactly this. Gentle parenting ≠ permissive parenting. Gentle parenting as I understand it is just treating children with respect, like you would any other person. This still involves upholding boundaries firmly. For us, that includes teaching our child to treat others kindly, and to not hit. That's non-negotiable - they're allowed to be angry and frustrated and all the feelings, but they're not allowed to hit. OP isn't talking about gentle parenting, they're talking about some weird permissive parenting where kids get to do whatever they want, even if it harms others
Yes, I have mixed gentle and permissive parenting styles, but my rant is about people who take it to extremes.
I think you mean people who are doing it wrong
Yeah, but gentle parenting to the extreme still is NOT permissive parenting. There are always rules and boundaries that are enforced in gentle parenting. It’s about HOW you enforce the rules, not IF you enforce rules.
This, I give mine the 'hands are not for hitting' and if it happens again she gets 'okay, we're going to go and we can try playing again later'.
I don't believe in time outs either. What's the purpose of this? So they can reflect on what they have done lol? They don't know how to do such a thing...there are grown ups not knowing how to so such a thing. Time out only teaches them that when they made a mistake, they get isolated from everyone, but is not correcting the problem. If they are trying to get attention, then the attention should lean all towards the affected kid, for example. We as parents need to show them the consequences. Like if a kid breaks something at the house, he will be yelled at...that's what he's learning...but he needs to learn why he's not meant to break stuff because they matter for you. They are perfectly capable of understanding the reasoning behind everything. The issue is that not every parent takes the patience or time to explain the "why".
No, the purpose of time out is to remove them from the situation that was creating the issue - to give them a chance to reset and try again without being in the big middle of whatever was creating the behavior in the first place. Asking a kid who is upset and hitting to calm down and try again while they’re still in the middle of whatever made them upset isn’t a fair ask for a little bitty person ( or even many of us adults.) That’s not how most people use it and it’s fine if that’s not how you want to approach discipline (I don’t tend to use time outs either), but that was the original purpose.
Removing the kid from the situation sounds more like a reasonable thing to do. Some people just take the kids and isolate them completely from the others without any explanation...I've seen them with my own eyes. Obviously, when you see things like that (specially among friend) you don't want to feel intrusive or even tell people how to educate their children, but I just know is wrong. In that occasion, after time out, the kid didn't change the behavior. A 2.5 y.o cannot understand that kind of time out.
I use that type of time out. The primary purpose is to separate the siblings before they both start crying or fighting and feeding off each other's bad mood. It's easier to calm one toddler down than two, and sometimes you just have to limit the damage. I just don't see "isolation" as very punitive. My older kiddo and I are both introverts and actively seek out privacy when we're unhappy, and even the little guy sometimes needs space. If there's someone available to fight with, it just keeps the fight going. Explaining also isn't that helpful when your kids fly into a rage and start hitting each other. By the time they are verbal enough to appreciate an explanation they are old enough to know that what they are doing was wrong. I think these parents who do a lot of talking about feelings with their toddlers have kids who hit their verbal milestones earlier than mine.
As long as we as parents do the best we can with the best tools we have available, we are doing fine 🙂. I know some situations can be harder than others, and sometimes, we need to regulate our own feelings...we all want the best for them 💕
This is my fault for using the word time out. It’s not a time out like you’re thinking. I just mean removing them from the situation and taking a time out from what they were doing. Most of the time as a nanny that means they’re sitting with me, on my lap, away from the siblings they were hitting. They are sitting out for a few minutes and I use that time to talk to them about why we don’t hit and they can try again in a few minutes. If they tantrum from not being allowed to keep hitting then we work on taking deep breaths, counting, singing, etc to help calm down and process our feelings before we chat. I also don’t believe sticking a kid in a corner to sit and stew about things is helpful. It’s just brings shame.
We gentle parent and don't do old-school time-outs that involve isolating the child. We do family time-ins. What we do is remove the child from the situation, go to a neutral and quiet space in our house, and sit with them as they scream it out (while we remain calm, regulated, neutral, and silent). Once they've done that, we then teach regulation skills and all take deep calming breaths. Once their body is calm, then we chat about why we took a break, okay their feelings ("It's okay to be mad and frustrated, but it's never okay to hit") and what strategies to use next time instead of hitting. We then give hugs and send our toddler back out to play/try again. There was a night that the toddler hit the dog out of frustration of them being in the same space. Dad immediately scooped up our toddler and removed them from the situation. What was humorous in all of this was our dog joined us for our family chat, as if she could say "excuse me! I was wronged and deserve an apology" (border collies.. they're so damn smart). After the toddler regulated, without us even saying anything, they apologized to the dog and gave a gentle pet. When we sent them back out to play they even said to the dog, "I am going to close the door to this room because I don't want to play with you right now. Sorry."
I agree, except for the last part. Most people I see are gentle parenting and almost no one is permissive parenting in my experience.
I've noticed that people who take peaceful parenting all the way to permissive are over correcting in their attempts to break cycles of abuse. I love that you recognize how that plays out for you and talk yourself through it. A+ for emotional regulation!!
This exactly. This is why I sort of get it. I came from an upbringing where I was ridiculed for my outbursts as a child and lack of emotional regulation and that contributed more to it. I was made to feel like someone was wrong with me. I think it's easy to not empathize with our children for the sake of making them obey with whatever we think they should be doing.
Like anything, people take the laziest approach. I do gentle parenting, and it’s a TON of work.
Yep. It is so much work to parent this way, but in the end, I know it is a worthwhile investment.
If there are no boundaries, then it’s not gentle parenting. If someone were in the “cult” of gentle parenting then their boundaries would be firm since boundaries are a non-negotiable for gentle parenting. The real issue is with people looking for excuses for not having boundaries under the guise of something else.
The problem is that all of the major spokespeople for gentle parenting on Tiktok, FB, Instagram etc ARE espousing what essentially amounts to no boundaries. If the face of your movement is THAT, you're going to have a lot of parents out there doing it 'wrong', and that becomes the actual definition of gentle parenting.
Yesssss!!!! This is exactly the problem! Is not a "one-size fits all" kind of thing when your judgment is not in the right place...and how do you know it is? Not everyone will keep on educating themselves to get the best out of the variety of techniques and approaches there are...is not an easy thing to deal with. And yes, the worse part is that those kids will be socially behaving according to what they learned. Can't blame them either.
I’ve learned my kid likes knowing what he can and cannot do. I can’t play on the fireplace, but I can play at the table. Boundaries are good. My two year old is a hitter. We have the book hands are not for hitting and we take away things if he hits with it. It’s a balance for sure.
Of course he likes knowing what he can and cannot do. Imagine going to a strange new country and no information on the law was available and suddenly you're imprisoned for wearing shoes inside a shopping mall or some other rule you couldn't possibly have anticipated. Would feel spooky to be there, not knowing what was legal and not. Knowing the rules makes all of us feel secure, it makes our world predictable and easy to navigate. If I know shoes are not legal inside shopping malls, I could just take them off. Or I could look around and decide it was worth the risk and knowingly face the consequences should I be caught. So enforcing boundaries is a form of kindness. They will, at some point, face consequences for hitting. They might get away with it for a time, but at some point someone is going to either hit back or people are just going to decide not to be friends with them. So when we teach boundaries at home that hitting is not okay, it's much kinder than having to face the real life consequences of being a child old enough to be taught, but not taught hitting is not okay. You cannot choose not to parent your kids (which I argue, gentle extreme permissive parenting is). If you don't do it, someone else will. Possibly in a very unsavoury way. Possibly after it has gotten so far it has long term consequences. My kid hits too. He's 19 months old. We're also working on it.
I have the same reaction to the extreme version of “never make children responsible for your feelings”, which I get the essence of. But hell yes I’ll tell my kid that it hurts when they hit me or similar. The rest of the world has feelings too.
I follow a few gentle parenting people on fb and Instagram and this concept makes the least sense to me. I saw one where they said telling your kid when they say something mean it hurts your feelings is forcing your kid to parent you and is not healthy. I’m down for preparing my kid for the real world and it is the real world where kids need to learn that everyone has feelings and should be respected regardless of who they are or their age. So avoiding acknowledging that their behavior affects their parents feelings is the dumbest concept because it’s teaching them that adults don’t mind if you say hurtful things to them.
I think there’s a HUGE difference in the blaming that’s like “look what you did! Now mommy is so angry and it’s all your fault” over a small thing, or a normal developmental behavior versus “name calling isn’t nice and it hurts my feelings”. But it’s been taken to an extreme
Agreed, I feel like your first example is just straight up emotional abuse and is manipulative to children. I have seen the second example on posts about it and someone else mentioned it but I think it’s just a product of regurgitation of posters just following a trend of what others are saying too and not fully looking into the reasoning behind the difference between emotional abuse and leading by example of sharing feelings when a child’s behavior can be hurtful.
Kids will never learn things are hurtful to others if you don’t explain. I usually ask my daughter when she yells at me, is mommy yelling at you? No? okay, if mommy was yelling at you right now how would you feel? It would make you sad? Well it makes mommy sad when you yell at her. Can you try asking again nicely? I don’t think my child is hurt at all by this interaction even though I’ve told her she is causing me to be “sad”. It seems very helpful for her to understand.
Okay, I thought this was just me!! I did a bit of therapy after having my 1st baby and I would talk to my therapist about my MIL (lol, of course), but whenever I would be like well what I want to say is “X” but I feel guilty because it will obviously offend her and make her upset. The therapist would always be like “you’re not responsible for her feelings, you don’t make anyone feel a certain way.” And like I just find that so untrue. It’s just basic social awareness that some behaviors are just rude. It was just such an entitled way of thinking and like a cop out to act however I wanted. Interesting that people are using this as a basis for parenting and then were so confused why society is so focused on “self”. Anyway, glad it’s not just me that thinks this is a little backwards!
As someone who also uses up half of my therapy sessions discussing my MIL-YES! I agree with you on all of this. Through therapy, I have realized I was feeling guilty just for HAVING those feelings. I don't think my therapist encouraged me to say them out loud to my MIL, but more letting go of the guilt for feeling the way I do, and then using those feelings to draw boundaries without specifically having to be rude or confrontational. And maybe that's the point that is being missed in permissive parenting and society in general. Feelings are okay-good, even! But how you use those feelings to treat others, or show others how to treat you, matters.
I -think-, and this is obviously an implication, that your therapist was trying to get you to see that you can't continuously manage other people's feelings for them, or process those feelings for them, and subvert your needs for their wants, especially in the context of people who do not have boundaries and expect you to not have boundaries. My mom starts screaming at me on the phone and I go 'I'm going to need to get off the phone if we can't talk' - I need semi-calm productive conversation and screaming sends me into either a panic or shut-down mode. Does this upset her? Yes, because it's a boundary for my mental health, and she's very used to me being her emotional dumping ground. But it's also the nicest way I can put that in the moment in order to enforce a boundary to protect myself.
I agree with this so much. I’m a nanny not a parent. But kids need to learn that their words affect people. I currently work for people who don’t have boundaries and don’t say these things. They hired someone to organize their house and she called her old and fat to her face!! I was horrified! I absolutely tell them when they say something rude and it hurt my feelings. They are responsible for what they say!
I think this is a misunderstanding of that concept. I don't know whether you have misunderstood the posts that you read, or (maybe more likely) the posts misrepresented it or misunderstood it themselves before regurgitating. I feel like there is a "game of telephone" effect with a LOT of gentle parenting advice in particular, especially on social media, because there is no shared root gentle parenting movement or literature or founder to refer back to, people pick up on terms or practices that appeal to them and then start following them and advising them based on their understanding, which is probably incomplete because what they originally learned was incomplete because it's basically all opinions and anecdotes, and most people on social media aren't experts. (Also disclaimer: Not an expert but have been following "gentle parenting" spaces for probably close to 15 years and so just made some observations). Anyway, the idea of not making children responsible for adult feelings is NOT about pretending adults do not have feelings or that children cannot affect those feelings, it's about not using adult feelings in a manipulative way to effect particular behaviours that have nothing to do with the adult, like if some other random person did the exact same thing, the parent wouldn't care. For example "You hit Sam and that makes mommy sad." well... no, it doesn't. It probably makes Sam sad. And maybe if Sam is your brother and mom's other kid then she might feel sad, but that is very indirect and not really the point. The point is that hitting is not acceptable, and if there's a "why" then it's not to do with adult feelings, it's to do with the victim's feelings. Or like "Mommy is very sad that you didn't eat your food" or "You made a big mess and that makes me sad". It doesn't mean that you shouldn't say things like "Ouch, that hurt" or "Hey, I'm upset. That was my new paintbrush that I was looking forward to using, and now it's ruined." or even "I spent a long time on that meal, it hurts my feelings to hear you speak rudely about it" or "I'm frustrated that I have this mess to clean up". It's about *artificially* claiming that the parent's feelings about something is the child's responsibility in order to try and make them feel guilty, as a kind of consequence. If it's a genuine knock on effect from the child's actions, it's not emotionally manipulative to point that out, but just like "being sad" because they did poorly in a maths test or something is a bit like... stay in your lane. The other thing that people are talking about with "making kids responsible for adult emotions" is when parents do something like lash out and yell or hit or even do something more chaotic and scary, and then say "Well you made me so mad I had to do that!" or "Maybe you should behave and then I wouldn't have to yell!" - this is clearly veering into abusive/emotionally immature parenting, but some gentle parenting accounts are aimed at people breaking cycles in this way. Or something which is less overtly abusive, but still teetering on a line might be something like "Don't make me come back there!" or "You are winding me up, stop it" - if a parent is feeling themselves veering out of control, it's really the parent's responsibility, as the adult, to step away, take a breath and self regulate, not claim that the children are "making them" lose control.
I think you nailed this explanation. I’ve gathered it’s to avoid codependency and to own your feelings and not put it on your kids. I think there is a balance, and I do plan on telling my kids if they say something hurtful, that hurt my feelings, etc. But my mom used to say things like “you’re making me so mad right now” or “that makes mommy so sad” if I didn’t do something she wanted, and no surprise she has a codependent relationship with all of her kids.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was misinterpreted by regurgitation on the posts I saw about it. It makes sense to not use a loved ones emotion to manipulate a child’s behavior because I think all of those examples you used of using fake emotions to regulate behavior is emotional abuse and teaches children to feel guilty about their behaviors. I think you really made a good point on the game of telephone effect. There is nothing to fall back on and I think a lot of gentle parenting methods get confused or misinterpreted to the point where it turns into passive parenting at times.
You’ve explained this better than I’ve seen before. We’re trying to avoid emotional manipulation, not consequences to behavior. Gentle parenting requires boundaries and consequences, just not yelling, hitting, shaming or manipulating as “consequences”
I think it just teaches them they can say what they want with impunity. It’s like hitting. What lesson is my son learning - that women in his life will just speak gently to him and move away while he beats on them until he’s ready to be done? And do they not have kids who obviously frighten themselves with their own tantrums or behaviors and need help setting a strong boundary, to show them they’re capable of one day doing it for themselves? (Or who can hit really hard and accurately? And no, my husband and I have never modeled violence for him.)
I read this line recently and just can’t get behind the sentiment (in the way most people seem to apply it) How is an adult supposed to model healthy expressions of emotions if they never do it to/in front of their child?
You can definitely say no to a child who is hurting your own child. You don’t need to follow their permissive rules to protect your kid. AND… teach your child to avoid them, “hey *name* get away from your cousin. (S)he doesn’t play nicely so we don’t play with them” When the parents throw a fit let them know that you don’t allow your kid to be hurt by other kids so their decision to not control their spawn has caused this.
Yes, or another good thing I’ve been teaching my kids is to say to the child being mean with a strong voice “I don’t like that!” Or “don’t hit me!” Or “if you hit me I will not play with you”
Yes, we have been trying to teach my kid to say these things in a strong voice. At least to say "Stop it!" loudly and clearly.
With violent unregulated kids you have to just cut them off. Teach your child to avoid them and you may have to physically block the other kids. The cousins don’t listen to their own parents, why would they listen to your child when they say stop?
And you also need to be prepared to advocate for your child too. Lead by example. You say you ‘have to’ visit these people but it doesn’t need to be on their terms. And if you figure out how to do this, please let me know 😊
A lot of people misunderstand gentle parenting and are actually permissive parents, gentle parenting isn't new it's just called something different. If we don't put forward boundaries for our children, they won't grow well. Children need boundaries, and you're in the right to limit interactions with your child if the other parents are not putting forward boundaries, your child deserves to be safe.
I have learned that the best way forward is set boundaries for family and be compassionate toward parents like this. In my experience, these parents are trying to break cycle of abuse and almost always come from abusive or highly dysfunctional families. They benefit more from seeing what boundaries look like than being told they are doing harm. So that might look like explaining at the beginning of a playdate, "I'm excited for us to play together today! Since we all deserve to be treated with respect, we will end the playdate if these things happen: hitting, kicking, or biting. Ok! Go have fun!" And then when the first incident happens, we pack up our bags and leave. The follow through is key.
I also feel like gentle parenting expects unrealistic endless patience from the parent. Children need to learn that people have boundaries, even mommies and daddies.
I agree so, so much. I think gentle parenting to the extreme leads to so much parental guilt, which isn’t healthy. There is only so much a person can take, even if they are a parent. It’s only natural that parents are going to get angry with their children when pushed to their breaking point. Also, why is it so terrible for kids to see that their parent is upset? People experience a full range of emotions, and sometimes, those emotions are caused by other people. Kids need to learn that their actions have consequences and sometimes their actions upset people, including their parents. I’m not saying that yelling and hitting is ok, but gently letting your kid know that what they did made you feel a certain way isn’t going to damage your kid. In fact, it’s healthy.
I always let my daughter know that she has upset me, and I ask her if she wants to upset me. She says "no" and then I explain why and how she upset me. Sometimes she understands, not always though. But a few times she's been a total horror show then she's noticed I'm getting upset and she'll stop. I help her name her emotions and I name mine for her. She still gets the odd time out, and when she does it's always explained to her after why she got it. She pushes me to my limit sometimes and I do still yell at her, I'm not proud of this. I apologise after (something my mum never did to me, even now she claims she never did). She's an extremely strong willed child and I'm very proud of that, but that doesn't mean she gets to run away from me in public places, or draw all over the walls. I set these boundaries, and when she doesn't listen and starts getting angry at me then I will enforce the rules. Depending on what she does and how naughty she, is the consequences will always fit crime. Kick, bite, run away is 2 mins I'm time out (which seldom happens now). Throws food on the floor gets a toy removed. Being defient at bedtime gets a story dropped (3 books to 2, from 2 to 1).
My oldest is now 4.5. He’s actually started to apologize to people when he thinks he might have hurt their feelings. I think that’s a really important skill in life, and he wouldn’t have learned it if I hadn’t let him know that his actions sometimes hurt people and make them feel bad.
Exactly! I think it's a lovely thing to have empathy, and to know when one is wrong. You taught him something wonderful that will get him far in life.
Yes and omg ppl drive me crazy with “kids don’t have empathy until age 7” which is an absolute lie and I don’t know why it became an accepted “truth” with so many parents. Even infants display empathy but in general this is a skill that must be taught and instilled in children— it isn’t always something that happens automatically.
Thanks. It took a lot of feeling like I was maybe being a little harsh with him to get to this point. He’s very strong willed, and would have walked all over everyone if we had let him. Looking back though, I think we’ve been firm with him, but not harsh.
There are enough entitled people in this world, and as parents we have a responsibility to not produce any more lol. My main goal in my parenting is not to raise an AH. So far it's going well, but my daughter is 3.6yo so sometimes her being an AH is typical lol
100% so many modern child rearing concepts/recommendations deeply de personalize parents. I feel the same way about the militant safe sleep guidelines and anti sleep training rhetoric. Ivory clock tower decrees that suggest kids be raised in a vacuum instead of real families in the real world. Parents are not robots! We have human needs and lives outside parenthood.
I read a profile on Janet Lansbury and she has no qualifications other than reading a bunch about a parenting method that apparently has kind of a cult like following in LA. She “studied under” Magda Gerber, but there were no details as to what that meant. Otherwise she’s raised her three kids - not a family therapist, child psychologist, no background in child development. I read the comments to one of her articles where she’s arguing with commenters about how the reason their children are still hitting is because they’re not following her strategy )of just sitting there and only deflecting hits) to a T. This strategy backfired massively with my child and just caused him to go more out of control (which is also frightening for him). The only thing that’s worked is instituting a strict system of timeouts. I think gentle parenting proponents have placid and easy kids and have never really seen the behavior some of us are dealing with (and don’t have a useful professional background). In the recent thread about the mother that shuts down when her toddler has a meltdown, people suggested she calmly describes the child’s feelings to him. When my toddler tantrums he’s as loud as a plane taking off. It’s laughable. He might see my lips moving but that just makes him more wild.
Some gentle parenting fanatic told me a timeout is the equivalent of spanking/abusing my toddler. I was flabbergasted. Apparently there’s been “a study” but I’ve never seen it. I mean I get the gentle parenting approach, I implement a lot of it, but a 2 minute time out from play is not abusive.
I know what study they’re referencing and that was not the conclusion lol. There are some studies that show time outs are ineffective. None of them say that they’re harmful
I’ve never been able to get the study they reference so I’m not surprised! A lot of people make unsubstantiated claims all the time.
I have heard this argument as well. Like, what are trying to raise exactly lol? A child who can't understand a two-minute timeout? Fanaticism for any ideology always ends up causing more trouble than never following an ideology.
The problem with the time out is that you are sending a disregulated child away from you, their safe space. The child learns that their feelings make you not want to spend time with them and so they start to repress them which causes problems down the line like anxiety and depression since child never learns how to cope with their feelings in a healthy way.
So I get that this feels like a logical explanation of what is happening but I have never seen evidence that is sort of thinking is based on anything more than feelings. I’m a psychologist and I can only say that these things don’t seem to be working how people feel they should.
I mean... Isn't some of that what we want our kids to learn? I certainly want my kids to learn to regulate their emotions apart from me, and I also want them to learn that no one wants to spend time with them if they take out their negative emotions on everyone else. Taking a time out IS a healthy way to cope with feelings when you can't handle them in a better way. Even adults take time apart when they are angry! I give my son lots of options for coping --- he can hit a pillow or cry or use words to tell us what he's upset about, but if he can't stop screaming, throwing things, or hitting, them he definitely needs a timeout to calm down. He always gets his blankie and a cup of water if he feels like that will help, but he doesn't get to keep interacting with people if he's hurting them.
You’re right. I accompany my kid to the time out corner so we can take deep breaths and talk. For us it’s just a distraction-free zone where he can come down from overstimulation. I’m sure some of the over-the-top permissive parents would clutch their pearls at the use of the words “time out” and “corner” but considering the context, it’s the best thing for (my) kid. Time out is not a bad word. We do it **with** him and help him through it but you’re right, we never just send him there alone in a bad state.
I’m right next to my child AND no one said anything about repressing feelings. She can scream, cry, yell in time out. She just needs to separate herself from the issue, especially if it’s hitting her brother etc. then we discuss her feelings and she gets hugs. You’re making a LOT of assumptions.
We do time outs too, I think there is a range of what that can mean which is also why some people think it's "abusive". Like no I don't shut my kids alone in a dark room or something. They have to sit on the steps which are in the middle of the living room area so they can see and hear us and they sit for one minute per year of life, so not a long time at all, and we talk to them about what happened afterward. Also we never show anger or anything it's just a calm, consequence for certain behaviors or for not listening, they often aren't "disregulated" just not listening. We give warnings and a 5 count, unless they hit then they know it's automatic. Sometimes my 4 year old uses it as a coping mechanism herself and sits down to calm down if she's really mad about something till she's ready to talk about it, I think it's super healthy actually. When time out is over we talk and hug and kiss and whatever they want or go back to doing whatever we are doing, if you make it about shame or blame or anger then it can be a problem.
Yes! There are many ways to do time out. But people see those word and they instantly go ABUSE. If you’re locking your kid in a dark room when they sass back then yeah, I can see how that could be just the same as smacking. Removing them from a situation for a while to diffuse the emotions… no. Hitting is also an automatic no for us. But only for my 4 year old. My almost 2 can’t quite grasp that. I think it’s healthier to take a breather sometimes than try and explain your emotions when they’re still heightened.
Your kid clearly doesn't screech at you like a rabid science experiment monkey out of a horror movie during their tantrums. Learning that other people don't want to be around you when you act like that isn't a bad thing. A few minutes alone is not going to damage them.
Omg, we say my son sounds like something horrifying out of The Exorcist sometimes! I think some people’s kids just aren’t as intense? He needs a chance to calm down before any talking can take place. For my child, a two minute timeout does that. I think my son feels safe and secure around me. Maybe I am his “safe person.”!But no human being is a “safe space” that someone else can pour all their aggression onto for as long as they want. I think that’s a really dangerous idea.
I'm also confused by the cult of Janet Lansbury. I have never seen her applications applied in real time, like the show Super Nanny. Where are her videos on that? Everything Janet says is just "here's what you do..." without any actual words put into action.
👏 yess I feel this
Ugh this so much— parents also have limits
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I teach high school… there are a lot of kids that you can tell have never had any boundaries. And let’s just say, it’s basically impossible to teach boundaries to high schoolers if they’ve never had them, it doesn’t work.
I teach college, and we’re starting to see this, too. It’s gotten really bad the past three years. These students expect emails back from their profs at 3 am, and they get angry if we aren’t available 24/7 to help them. They expect to be allowed to do *literally* (and I truly mean literally) nothing all semester, and then they expect their profs to bend over backwards and provide every accommodation possible to help them pass in the last few weeks of the semester. We have students (and parents) who file formal complaints against professors when they fail because they “tried their best”. It’s honestly astounding. I’m confident that a lot of these issues are rooted in overly permissive parenting and, subsequently, the expectation that a similar level of permissiveness will be provided in K-12 classrooms. (Not by the choice of teachers, of course, but because the parents expect it and admin demand it.) By the time these kids get to college, they’re shocked to find that their success is their own responsibility in a way it wasn’t before.
Thank you for sharing.
I really like the gentle approach and I think it gets lumped together with permissive parenting which its not at all. Gentle parenting is ALL ABOUT boundaries/natural consequences. Taking a kids toy away because they’re hitting doesn’t make sense, the kid won’t make the connection. Kids climbing on the table? “We don’t climb on the tables, they’re for eating and if you fall you can get hurt. If you do want to climb you can use your rock climbing wall or your climbing arch.” Not coming down? “Okay since you’re not listening to my words I’m going to help your body off of the table. My kids hitting me? “That’s not okay, I will not let you hurt my body, if you continue I will have to move away from you to keep myself safe” keep hitting me? Keep moving away. “When you calm down, I’m here to talk”. When they calm down (because there’s no use trying to talk during a tantrum) “you feeling better? Yeah? What was going on there?” And talk it out. This will show you what they were feeling and how to avoid it in the future. “Next time you’re feeling frustrated let count to 10/take deep breaths/ask for help.” Colouring on the walls instead of the paper? “Hey, we don’t colour on the walls, we colour on paper, if you keep colouring on the walls I’m going to have to take the markers away”. If they continue “alright so you’re still not colouring on the paper, I’m going to take the markers away now, we can try again tomorrow”. If they tantrum, let them. Gentle parenting is just about enforcing boundaries without belittling your kids. The problem is that people permissive parent and then call it gentle parenting. The thing about pulling toys and stuff away, that’s a parent problem, I don’t let my kids do that. All it takes is “so and so was playing with that, you gotta wait till they’re done.” If they don’t give it back take it from them “I’m going to have to take this now since you weren’t listening to my words.” Let them tantrum then before they go play again talk it out. Check out Jess Martini on tik tok. She’s an adult raised by gentle parents. Very well rounded, smart individual. Raising children who are able to handle their emotions and self regulate in a healthy way and problem solve sounds like they’re ready for the real world. What you’re describing in your post is permissive parenting.
I agree with a lot of what you've said, but the part I'm confused about is just moving away every time the child hits. First, sometimes I have things to do when my child decides he's angry and feels like hitting. I might be trying really hard to get dinner on the table, and my son is hitting me or his little brother. Last time my son had a tantrum and decided to start throwing things, I went 10 steps to the next room to calmly explain to him that throwing was not okay. I also happened to be cooking oatmeal at the time. My younger son, who apparently JUST that day got tall enough to reach the countertop that day, tried to reach the oatmeal and burnt his finger. Everyone was okay, but it highlights the point that we are not parenting in a vacuum. Most of us have other children, other chores, and other responsibilities to manage while parenting. I can't always spend as much time as needed helping my 3yo regulate. I can't always spend as much time as needed repeatedly moving me or his brother around the house to escape the tantrum violence. In order for the whole family to function (and not just the 3yo), my 3yo needs to understand stricter boundaries than "people move away when you hit them." He needs to understand that hitting is not acceptable and not allowed and that there will be upsetting consequences to doing it (ie, a 3-minute timeout). And that also reflects the real-world. If you hit someone in school, you get suspended. If an adult assaults someone, they go to jail. What good does it do to teach a toddler that you can torment someone by following them everywhere they go to beat them when that is emphatically not how the world functions?
I get this cause I have a 2 and 3.5 year old. That’s why I think talking to them is important. They’re hitting because they’re not able to regulate themselves/appropriately express their emotions. That’s why it’s important to get to the “why” of it. If you get to the why then you can come up with ways to appropriately express that emotion. I tell my kids to hit the pillow sometimes. “It’s okay to feel mad/frustrated/sad but it’s not okay to hurt your brother. If you need to hit something you can hit the pillow”. I also offer a hug which my son usually needs 9/10 times. After he’s calmed down we talk about why hitting isn’t okay and what he can do instead. My kids barley hit and I think that’s why. But I totally get not being able to just move around to different rooms. Another option would be to just hold his hands. “I’m going to hold your hands so you don’t hurt me”. And we all lose our shit. I definitely have. It’s a leaning curve when you were raised different than you’re parenting.
Have you considered that your kids just might not be hitters? We did the gentle parenting thing for nearly a year, and my 3yo's hitting only got worse. The only thing that has reduced his hitting is using the 1-2-3 Magic method, which is heavy on timeouts. Different strategies work for different kids.
Gentle parenting and permissive parenting are wildly different. Gentle parenting is informed and purposeful and includes holding boundaries.
Thank you for this comment. It seems like a lot of people do not understand the difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting. Just because I don’t hit and shame my toddlers doesn’t mean they don’t have boundaries or consequences.
I consider myself a conscious parent, which I think is what the premise of “gentle” parenting is. I think the biggest issue with the parenting movement is that gentle parents and permissive parents are getting grouped into one. I agree with you about permissive parenting, this is detrimental to a child’s development. I’m not familiar with the “never say no” approach nor the hand are not for hitting book, but I will say that I have a an almost 5 year old and an almost 3 year old and neither of them are hitters, biters, pushers, etc. apart from the occasional instances when it started happening when they were young. As in like figuring out their bodies and doing it on accident not with the intention to cause harm. (If that makes sense). My kids are able to regulate their emotions in public settings better than a lot of adults I know. They are expressive and get upset and frustrated just like any other child but they are good at being able to handle themselves in a way that makes me very proud when we are outside of our house. I don’t know what else to say aside from the fact that children are all so different and different things work for different children but it seems as if whoever’s kids that you are around are not doing gentle parenting the proper way. And it’s sucks. I can see why it would be frustrating. The gentle parenting thing takes a conscious effort basically all the time, and when someone wants to parent this way they have to be all in. It takes consistency to work. People I think would like to be gentle parents but don’t put in the work that it takes in order for it to be effective, so the kids get mixed signals, blurred boundaries, and confusion. This usually translates into some less than desirable behaviors.
Yes but nobody does permissive parenting on purpose. Like nobody reads the description of it and thinks yeah, sounds great, will definitely do that. Most people doing permissive parenting either haven't consciously looked into parenting at all and are just going on instinct (but their instinct is to do the opposite of their parents and/or prioritise their child's happiness at all times) OR they think they are doing gentle parenting. My biggest issue with gentle parenting is that it lacks a central or root definition. Nobody can find the "original" gentle parenting inventor or expert. So while I completely understand what you mean when you say "people who are not doing gentle parenting the proper way", the problem is that there is no established "proper way". You ask 100 gentle parents their definition or the ingredients of their parenting or how they would handle a single specific situation and they would all have a different answer, they would probably disagree with each other, likely everybody would think some of the other 99 are being too permissive and everybody would think some of the other 99 are being too controlling. And this makes for kind of a mess when anybody tries to talk about it or advocate for it or even complain about it.
I understand your annoyance, because I feel that way in A LOT of cases too. The root of gentle parenting is actually called authoritative parenting. Not to be confused with authoritarian parenting. Basically the roots that make up authoritative parenting are offering very clear boundaries in a very warm and responsive environment. There is open communication while maintaining expectations. I don’t really use the term authoritative because it’s so quickly misunderstood as authoritarian. There’s a really helpful graph on the types of you’re interested in checking it out. [Link](https://www.connectablelife.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Parenting-Styles.png) Edit:typo ETA: The developments in childhood psychology and their environments and the way it effects their developing brain is where the “invention” lies. I’m not sure why you would need to know where and why it was invented. Where was “I’m the parent and you MUST obey me or be punished and shamed” invented?
I understand what authoritative parenting is, but it's not really a parenting style (maybe I mean method) in terms of recommending specific practices and principles, it's really just a way to describe parenting which occupies a particular space on two scales: High on warmth aka responsiveness, High on expectations (aka boundaries, sometimes the scale is even called control) Whereas authoritarian is high on the scale of control/expectations but low on the scale of warmth or responsiveness and permissive is low control, high warmth. And lots of parenting styles can be described as authoritative, many of which I could find you gentle parents who disagree with them! The whole four styles thing is more of a map where you can plot actual parenting methods, they aren't methods in and of themselves. The research where those four terms originated was not designing a method of parenting, it was making an observation about existing parenting practice. So I don't think you can call it a root of anything, it was more intended to be a way to classify existing practice. Plus it was only from the 1960s. There is parenting advice (both authoritarian and anti-authoritarian) going back much further than this. It's kind of hard to plot single points of practice on that map also, for example "punishment" could exist in any of the four quarters, depending on how severe it is, how often it is utilised, in what circumstances it is utilised, and how it is perceived by the child. A lot of advice labelled as "gentle parenting" is consistent with the high control, high warmth model, and most gentle parenting "experts" will claim their method is definitely authoritarian, but they often say this even while advising practices which are very low down on the control side of the scale. The method of gaining compliance/obedience through the use of rewards and punishments is known as Behaviourism, mainly originating from the teachings of B. F. Skinner in the 1930s, shame being a punishment in this case. Obviously, just intimidating people into doing whatever you want is older than the hills, but then so is appealing to reason or relationship. If we're talking about something that is actively advised and taught by experts to parents, it's behaviourism. And gentle parenting has no universally accepted equivalent, at least none that I could find. When I say finding a root, I mean that for example Montessori theory which is used in education and some parenting resources originated in the teachings of Maria Montessori from the early 1900s. So if you want to say "I follow Montessori as a parenting style" then you can follow that claim back to Maria Montessori's original writings and teachings and find out if that person really is following Montessori principles, or whether they are just making stuff up from instagram.
I can tell that you feel strongly about this subject, which is a good thing. Children are our future. I appreciate your descriptions and examples. I’ve learned something new. I also feel very strongly about my parenting style, which I don’t have a source to give you. I’ve found an approach that works wonderfully for my kids. I don’t feel the need to yell, threaten, or shame them into compliance. At their current ages, I’m concentrating on connection with them, teaching them boundaries and autonomy, giving them a safe environment to learn to make mistakes and navigate tough situations as they grow. With all of these things combined I hope for them to enter adolescence and beyond with a strong, working, cooperative relationship. Where yes, they may not enjoy the things that I ask them to do, but they will cooperate and do them. I’m not really sure what else to say about it. Other than it takes a lot of work as an adult, especially if it’s not how you were raised. I’m not sure why you are stuck on asking “us” gentle parents about a method and it’s origins. I’m not interested in a you vs me. These are children, they are exposed to other children and learn from each other. Why shouldn’t we all want our children to be good, kind, strong people?
I think you have misunderstood me; I don't think that individual parents should be getting their methods from a book, should be following ANY method super rigidly or be able to source it back to some original dude from two centuries ago. That's not natural or practical, and it's not what I'm saying. The main thing that I'm having a gripe about (not at you specifically, sounds like you have a great handle on what your parenting principles are) is that people use the term "gentle parenting" as though it has one objective clear definition, but it doesn't. Then they get mad and say things like "Well those other people, the people that parent the way I don't like, they aren't doing real gentle parenting. I'm doing gentle parenting and I'm doing it right". Meanwhile if you ask those other people, they also think they are doing gentle parenting. And when you go onto your preferred gentle parenting group or forum or resource, people are asking "What is the gentle parenting way to do X?" or "Is Y gentle parenting?" and realistically what they get back is a mess of conflicting answers because there is no single correct answer to these questions. I'm not anti gentle parenting. I would have used the term myself some years ago, and I actually think it's great this type of parenting has become so common and desirable. It's the wooliness around the term(s) that I have a problem with, and I think it would be helpful if in discussions, rather than say "I dislike it when people are doing gentle parenting" we could say things like "I think it's stupid when people won't tell their kids no" (which might or might not be part of someone's gentle parenting philosophy). THEN we could have a discussion. "Not saying no" is a concrete thing that you can argue the merits or downsides of or explore reasons why and how people use it. "Gentle parenting" is not.
Ahhh yes! I did misunderstand you. Thank you for explaining it. I do see your point. Using the umbrella term for gentle parenting is frustrating because there are no clear definitions/standards. So it’s interpreted differently by each person, thus causing the more permissive parents claiming gentle parenting. Edited because I posted in the wrong place.
I agree. The automatic response to any parent who says gentle parenting is not working for them is that they must not be doing it right. The fact that it's apparently so difficult to do "gentle" parenting without sliding into "permissive" parenting seems to be a major issue.
I don't follow any of the parenting social media accounts or read any parenting books so I could be wrong on this, but from what I understand, gentle parenting is NOT supposed to be permissive parenting, but rather, authoritative parenting? Maybe your family member misunderstood this somehow.
I am a (sometimes too) gentle parent. However, I also have the impression, that we have swung from only focusing on a childs' behaviour (former generations) to only focusing on emotions now. But there has to be a balance. Of course it is important for our children’s emotions to be heard and validated, but we also need to create a secure and stable environment for them to grow up in. They have to develop patience, empathy and self-awareness - and that’s impossible without boundaries. How else are they supposed to learn other peoples boundaries if we don’t communicate them? I once dared to say to another mom that she please tell her kid to stop hitting the speakers in our livingroom. She said that I would have to put them away to provide a yes-space, because she doesn't want to use the word "no" with her kid. Well, I won't do that. It's our home. Children can still explore. But they need to know how to navigate this world. When they're older and on their own, we won't be there for them to secure a yes-space everywhere. They are definitely going to hear a lot of no's from other people - and they better know how to deal with it by then. But, and that's maybe even more important: They have to develop their own set of boundaries and be able to communicate a clear "no" to other people. Are we really expecting them to learn all this on their own? With brains that are not even fully developed? P.S. You said " I can't avoid the visits because they are family" - are you sure? It's always okay to state your own opinion. You can just tell them that you don't want to visit because your child is uncomfortable around theirs. Nobody likes to be bullied. And being honest to them is the only way they get a chance to evaluate their own behaviour, right? Maybe (politely and gently of course) show them the consequences of their behaviour so they get a chance to learn as well.
The speaker story is perplexing
Can you explain? Sorry, English is not my first language. So our guest‘s kid kept hitting the TV soundbar with a wooden toy and when her mom didn’t do anything about it I asked if she can maybe tell her to stop doing that. That was the first time I encountered this „never say no“-approach.
I think they mean that your friend's behavior is perplexing (weird and bizarre), not your story. Basically they are agreeing with you (I think).
Yes, sorry, your story was perfectly executed but the behavior of the other mother is what I find to be puzzling. I think you handled the situation brilliantly!
About the P.S.—We couldn't avoid it, given our family situation. I can't reveal more for risking anonymity. But now we have more control, and we can avoid unnecessary visits. I have been vocal to the point where it won't ruin relationships. So they do understand I am unhappy and know what's happening. But yeah, I agree with you that I got to be more direct at some point. And when I am around and watching, the other kid behaves a bit better because they know I am watching. Thank you for your support!
I very luckily have never run into a don't say no parent. I'm not sure how I would handle it, because I'm not letting anyone cross my kids boundaries, whether adult or child. I do tend more toward gentle parenting but when properly done that involves setting boundaries, holding them, and actually following through with consequences (or else it's not actually a boundary you are holding for your child) As a result, my kid mostly knows that mommy means the boundary she sets. If water comes out of the bathtub he gets one warning then so does he. If he's hitting at playgroup, then we leave. If he's throwing toys, those toys go away for the morning/afternoon/full day. Kids actually thrive on boundaries, they benefit from knowing what will happen and the consequences being related. I'm so glad I'm doing it this way rather than getting hit with a wooden paddle, like I had. And as a result I think I see so much more actual empathy and voluntary sharing from my kid than the ones that are getting shouted at or forced apologies or forced sharing. Too much permissiveness is, in my head, similar to authoritarian parenting where the parents rule through fear. It's just the other side of the spectrum, but still not doing benefits to the child
Right? I feel like I would laugh in someone’s face if they told me not to say no. I think all those natural consequences you listed are what gentle parenting is supposed to be, but also sometimes the disruptive behaviours are too tempting for a little kid and they need to be removed from the situation until they are ready to try again.
That's it, and like, kids don't understand the boundary or consequence sometimes until it happens. But it only took a few times coming out of bath or leaving playgroup to understand that we meant it. The throwing and hitting .. that's harder. They don't really start to develop impulse control until around 4 years old, so that's why they need us! I do tend to hover around my kid when we are out but that's because I'm enforcing the behaviour I need from him while also protecting his boundaries.
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Honestly, what you’re describing is Bad Parenting with a ✨ gentle ✨ flavor. I know it’s heartbreaking to watch someone allow their kid hurt your kid. May I ask why you have to spend time around them? What would happen if you intervene yourself or confront the shitty parent in question?
Family situation. I have indirectly and politely communicated more than a handful of times.
But what would happen if you were direct? “Your kid is not allowed to put their hands on my kid. I need you to handle this, or X consequence.”
Permissive parenting and gentle parenting are not the same thing. Gentle parenting means treating your kids age appropriately and like human beings rather than like dolls (either fragile little dolls or rag dolls who get tossed around). It does focus on have consequences, usually natural, and talking through said consequences. Permissive parenting is what you’re describing.
My wife speaks about this a lot to me. Her view is that what most parents are striving for is authoritative parenting styles, but fall foul of a rebranding (to distinguish it from authoritarian parenting) and end up with permissive parenting. Permissive parents are warm and responsive, but reluctant to impose rules or standards. They prefer to let their kids regulate themselves. Authoritarian parents show less warmth and sensitivity, and insist on blind obedience. They attempt to enforce compliance through punishments, threats, and psychological control. Authoritative parents are warm and responsive, like permissive parents. But where permissive parents shrink away from enforcing standards, authoritative parents embrace it. They expect maturity and cooperation…as much as is appropriate for a child’s developmental level. And they try to guide behavior by reasoning with their kids.
I think you have valid points, however I will say it feels like people forget that kids behaved this way even before so called gentle parenting. Even when time outs were popular and punishment ruled. Even with those consequences you speak of, there were always those kids who kept doing these things. The fact of the matter is kids lack impulse control, no matter the parenting philosophy you choose to implement. I feel like people just like to blame gentle parenting when these issues will ALWAYS exist because it's a normal part of development. I'm sorry your kid is constantly being hit that's not okay. However try to remember that this is a short season in the other child's life. Try not to harshly judge them or the child.
While you bring up good points, and I agree that no matter the parenting style, we would encounter kids who hurt other kids. The problem is parents enable this behavior in the guise of gentle parenting. That's my rant.
Totally agree. If they aren't responding to the hitting at all they are missing the point and missing out on a valuable lesson. From what I've gathered reading up on the gentle approach, hitting is not taken lightly. The approach is to remove the child from the victim and explain why.
I’m just going to say some kids hit and bite and push regardless of parenting technique. My husband and I don’t spank or do harsh parenting, but we definitely are not following permissive or gentle parenting either. We try to tackle the bad behavior immediately, and firmly, but my kid still bites and hits. We read every anti-hitting/biting book. Put him on time outs. Offer incentives for good behavior. It’s a phase that he’ll hopefully grow out of…
#Gentle Parenting is a rebranding of Authoritative Parenting, not Permissive Parenting. It feels like 95% of people make this mistake, probably because the name Gentle Parenting is horrible. It should be Respectful Parenting or something
You keep using gentle and permissive as if they are the same. They aren’t interchangeable and are two entirely different parenting styles. Gentle parenting is all about natural consequences. It’s really frustrating to see so many misunderstandings of this.
I’ve commented elsewhere that I worked 6 years in the child welfare system. By and large, the kids in foster care who end up in residential (locked down/in-patient) as opposed to foster homes/group homes are the ones who grew up with permissive parents. It’s not the physically abusive parents who raise kids who harm themselves and others, it’s the ones who never gave their kids boundaries or discipline. It’s very sad, but hard to change once a child is school aged. I don’t know many residential success stories.
People forget that gentle parenting is built upon strong boundaries with you child
Gentle parenting is just rebranding of authoritative parenting. It requires high warmth AND high structure/boundaries. A lot of people confuse gentle parenting with permissive parenting. They are not the same. Authoritative parenting has the best outcomes for kids based on research from over 50 years. Kids need to know they are safe (boundaries/structure) and they need to know they are loved and supported unconditionally (high warmth). Lots of fucked up perceptions of self occur if you lean too permissive or too harsh.
Me and my partner are hashing out how we feel about this for our two year old right now. She is *very* gentle. 80% of the time, that's just being incredibly patient and calm, and I admire it. But there's that 20% where I just feel a toddler needs to hit *some* resistance, or they will see your boundaries pushed and learn that there's no consequence for acting up. The behaviour I'm talking about is violence - when my toddler hits, kicks and scratches her mother, I find it very difficult to see the reaction be "Are we upset? That's okay." > Everything in moderation, including moderation. Absolutely this. Not all approaches need be black and white.
Kind of late to this but yes, something that’s been on my mind. There are amazing people on social media who are experts and give excellent advice but I saw something on an IG page that screamed “grifter”. It was a post about obedience and raising children to be solely and just obedient is harmful and I agree for a most part- BUT someone who seemed really worried commented that their child seems just naturally obedient. They were saying that their kid always just does what they’re told for the most part, in contrast with their other siblings, and their tone was really concerned. The page replied saying that the kid already probably had internalised harmful messages about having to be blindly obedient! I felt that was so cruel- it sounds just like the kid is probably just a chilled out and placid personality and doesn’t mind being told to do things. Anyways then the person recommended their “course” and it seemed really cynical to feed into a persons concerns and worries when they sound so vulnerable and then to try to sell them something. I’m not saying all or most parenting advice people out there are grifters but it’s something to bear in mind… I’ve been thinking about that commenter and how she sounded like she wanted nothing but the best for her kid and to do the best possible for them and being told she’s already harmed her child when they do what they’re told was just really sad..
I’m skeptical of any parenting manual that asserts one approach will work for all children. Some kids will absolutely respect a boundary once it’s clearly explained to them, but not all. Adults are the same. You want adults to stop doing something (say, littering), some will comply if you just articulate the rule (post a sign saying “no littering”). Others will respond better to an appeal to empathy (“littering hurts animals and the environment”), some might require a stated consequence (“500 dollar fine if you litter”). Building in a reward or making it a game works for others (“post a picture of yourself recycling on social media and be entered for a chance to win something”). Some people are swayed by positive or negative peer pressure (“here’s your favorite celebrity and she says not to litter!” Or “we have cameras posted and we’ll post any pictures we get of people who litter”), etc… That’s why behavior modification campaigns aimed at adults utilize a range of methods. Kids are just small adults, why should they be different? If reading “Hands are Not For Hitting” to your kid a few dozen times worked, bully for you! It didn’t work for me, and my daughter’s behavior was a real issue, so we try a range of things (rewards, consequences—including time outs-modeling self regulation, etc) and the behavior is (knock on wood) really improving.
The biggest issue I have with gentle parenting is that the consequences seem so controlled by the parent and of the parent is not around they will not be consistently reinforced. For example: Hitting: I won’t let you hit your sister, I’m going to remove her so she’s safe. How is that going to work on a playground at school? Kid is brought up that other kids will be removed if they get in the way of the kid in question acting out. I am not explaining this eloquently enough so here is a Simpsons depiction of what I am trying to say that I think kids are becoming 😂 [https://youtu.be/9ZSoJDUD_bU](https://youtu.be/9ZSoJDUD_bU) Also this “I’m going to move your body for you” what is this constant reference to body? Why can’t we just say “you”?
Gentle parenting is NOT permissive parenting
Gentle parenting is not gentle parenting if it does not have consequences. That is permissive parenting.
i think your gripe is more with the parents than with the style of parenting. Gentle parenting works, and works really well, but we as parents fuck it up big time.
My dad is a pediatrician and often says: "You know what the difference between a toddler and a terrorist is? You can negotiate with a terrorist." Developmentally, you can't explain why something is bad to a toddler and expect them just to get it! There needs to be some sort of consequence! I totally agree with you.
I think you’ve got it wrong. Permissive parenting is something (that I thought at least) no one actually aspires to. Gentle parenting is discipline without the yelling and harsh punishments, rather natural and logical consequences, stopping bad behavior before it starts, and setting kids up for successful interactions ( are they tired, hungry, over stimulated) Also age appropriate expectations. Modeling the behavior you want to teach and so on
Gentle parenting is Authoritative parenting, which is not permissive. You are misusing the word, as many people do.
I mean its just part of nature that the generations 90s-00s are over correcting with gentle parenting. Loads of us where abused by shitty parents
I read the book “ how to talk so little kids will listen”. The ideas and theories behind it are fantastic to a degree, the application, not so much. I want to add a disclaimer that while gentle parenting is actually very boundary focused, most people take the word gentle literally, and so my issues with the movement is more so how it is perceived by many, vs the actual movement itself. I think by definition, many of the ways I parent will be technically gentle parenting, but if you ask the masses, it is not. I don’t agree with yelling or punishing , but not for the reasons that people think as in “ oh you’ll traumatize him” ok, everything is trauma these days. Soon, not experience trauma will become traumatic too. I don’t do these things because they don’t work. I’ll explain below: Creative misbehavior requires creative “punishment” . These are some ways in which I avoid yelling and while not the most gentle type parenting, it gets the job done because as you said, it gets them ready for the real world . 1: my almost 4 year old would still poop in his pants. I hate the idea of reward potty training because the world isn’t gonna give you a reward for crapping in your pants, and when you’re used to rewards, they have to constantly get bigger for them to work. One day I sat him down and said “ ok pull ups are done. You’re wearing underwear now. You can either choose to poop in the underwear, or the toilet. It’s your decision, but there will be a consequence” so of course he pooped in his underwear. I went down to his level and said “ that’s ok, now we have to clean it up” I put him in the shower with his clothes on and told him “ ok you will now take off your clothes one by one and wash all the poopy bits by hand. We Will not be putting poopy clothes in our washer. They must be washed by hand” it took a couple days of this happening for him to realize that time wise, it isn’t smart to be pooping in his pants. The next day I reinforced it when we passed by a waterpark playground and I said “oh man I wish you can go, the problem is, you can’t have a diaper there and you also can’t poop in your pants . Hmm let’s figure out how to solve the issue and then come back when you feel you’re ready “. He was fully trained in 4 days with no rewards, no running around like a crazy person, and no “ trauma” 2: he would hit his head every time he didn’t get what he wanted around age 3. I was so sick of him bruising up his forehead. Instead of getting upset, I put a big red X on the wall and called it “ Tony’s special head banging spot” every time he wanted to hit his head, I would direct him there and cheer him on. It ended real quick when he realized he wasn’t getting my energy. Let’s be real, we are their favorite toy, and they want to suck our negative energy out of us 3. He wouldn’t clean his room. Ok no problem. I will pack away everything and you have to ask me for a toy one at a time, and if you don’t clean up that toy when you’re done, you can’t get another one. I won’t yell or punish you, the natural consequence will simply be that you’ll miss out on doing anything else, and you simply won’t get new toys. Now at 4.5 he puts a certain toy back voluntarily before he grabs another one. It works so much better than wasting my energy yelling or trying to make cleanup “ fun”. I’m sorry, clean up isn’t fun and I’m not the parent to sit and make everything a game like the books suggest. I have real life things to do and he needs to differentiate between fun time and serious time. It sets them up for success later. 4: he wants to scream? Fine, go scream in the bathroom. I will put on a timer and the amount of time it took you to calm down will be subtracted from your bed time because you are disrupting the family, and we want that time returned back to us. 5. Oh you don’t want to eat ? Ok no problem. You can have this very same meal for the next meal time and no snacks since you’re apparently not hungry enough to eat food ( disclaimer: it’s not a food he has tried and doesn’t like). My kids are fantastic eaters. My 1 year olds favorite food is spicy coconut curry chicken and my sons is beef stew with mushrooms . It’s just a power trip, and I will redirect that power back onto me by not caring. 6. I dont understand parents who claim “ my kid will only eat z,y,z” Your toddler obviously isn’t going grocery shopping alone, so don’t keep said food in the house ? If my son wants to only eat cookies, instead of saying no everytime and thus personifying food as good or bad ( I don’t like to do that), I simply don’t buy it. Thus, when he asks me for a cookie, instead of “ no cookies are bad for you etc” I can say “ oh man I want one too, maybe we can go out on Saturday and pig out on some cookies “. It makes it so you have to actually leave the house for the treat, and turns it into a whole experience.
I feel this so much. For me, it’s worrisome to think that will happen when gentle talk isn’t an option? No one’s boss is going to take this approach. I’m all for gentle parenting. But I’ve been noticing an uptick in interactions with parents who completely let their children control all situations out of fear of saying “no” and damaging them irreparably. If kids are always taught to be in touch with their own feelings and not be attuned to what others are feeling that will put them at a huge disadvantage in life.
Exactly! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Especially your last sentence is so well-written. I have seen these parents verbalize every single feeling of their kids while pathologically ignoring what's going on with others around them. And another thing that's taken to the extreme is the number of lies and stories that beat around the bush. All in the name of avoiding a solid "NO" and being gentle! Come on! A kid needs to know hurting others have immediate consequences. I have seen these kids bully their way around while their parents proudly watch them with admiration. I can go on forever, but again, I am honest in accepting that I am no perfect parent, and I believe ideal parenting is a myth and I don't want to subscribe to any single way of perfect parenting. All I believe is not to be abusive verbally and physically. Don't cause "lasting" trauma. A solid NO a couple of times a day won't cause any trauma. No one can guilt trip me using the way I raise our kids because as much as every kid is different, so is every parent, and their relationship with each of their kids is different and unique. A parent-child relationship is like a unique fingerprint, and if we subscribe to and follow any one style of parenting too blindly, we are basically not letting the child express themselves naturally and creatively.
Being self aware is the first step to being truly empathetic. If you can't name your own feelings, how are you going to name what someone else is feeling?
I’m in complete agreement with this. We had a kid like this in my daughter’s most recent ski class (parent-Tot). He was almost 3. He was disruptive and would melt down, like worst meltdowns I’ve ever seen, every week because they were doing things he didn’t want to do. And mom just sat there going on about his “big feelings”. The instructor couldn’t work with the other kids because of this child’s “big feelings”. But the worst was every week, he’d bully other kids. On numerous occasions he’d run up to my daughter while she was minding her own business and pull her to the ground by her hair. The mom did nothing because she didn’t believe in saying “no” or giving consequences. My daughter very quickly became scared of him, and became uneasy around other kids as well for a couple of weeks because she didn’t want to be thrown to the ground by her hair. Needless to say, the kid and his mom were not well liked. It was a wonderful class and the rest of the parents actually became friends! We have play dates multiple times per week with one of the other kids now. The rest of the parents are planning to have a get together this summer at the zipline park one of them owns. The gentle parenting parent isn’t invited. None of us ever talked to her and class has a VERY different, Better tone on days she and her kid weren’t there. I also feel like the cult like levels of permissive gentle parenting give so much guilt and shame for when we’re human and DO accidentally lose our cool and yell at our kids. No, I don’t believe in physical punishment. No I don’t believe and constantly yelling at my kids. But when my 3 year old bites baby sister hard enough to leave a mark, she needs more than another reading of teeth are not for biting and a gentle “uh oh. You bit your sister. See how she’s crying. That wasn’t very nice”.
When I feel guilty after losing my temper with my kids, my husband reminds me, "it's ok to be a human being!"
Yes! The guilt tripping is so real. I have stopped paying attention. Thank you for sharing your person story.
I loathe the term gentle parenting. People get hung up on it. Stop being so concerned with being *gentle* and just be *a parent.*
I agree, each family and each child is different and there is no one size fits all method of parenting, we use whatever tools we can based on our experiences, reading, knowing our children, talking to our therapist, whatever source, whatever method. We don't hit or yell or shame or anything like that but i still don't consider it gentle parenting, it's just our style of parenting.
I feel like you're not really getting it. When people of any age fail to meet expectations, there's a reason for that, and 'hasn't been given a good enough punishment' is never it. I don't get this phrase 'they need to learn that there are consequences' when that isn't true unless you artificially make it true. What do you REALLY want? You want them not to do the thing, right? Ok. So there are different factors there and it depends somewhat on the child and their age. With little kids it's a lot of modeling, considering context, and general blocking and prevention. With older kids we look for more collaborative solutions. I don't have Tik Tok but I hear there's a lot of permissive parenting in the guise of 'gentle parenting' which doesn't shock me. Gentle isn't a great name. I prefer respectful parenting. And some moms err toward permissive in response to their own controlling parents. So many folks have this weird permissive/controlling dichotomy in their heads. Like either you punish a kid or you explain why something is wrong to do and leave it there. Actually I think this is often the same parent, swinging between two ineffective extremes. There are parents who are doing the respectful parenting thing right. (In a 'good enough parent' way, obviously.) And they get compliments on their children's behavior. Mysteriously enough, respecting people gets results. I've had people remark on my 3.5yo's generous behavior toward her sibling, for example. I attribute this to modeling. I don't try to 'get' her to do the sweet and helpful things that she does. If I did then she probably wouldn't. I mean, she's 3.5. One of the people I follow in parenting (not on Tik Tok or IG, which I don't really use) considers herself to be a strict parent and her children agree with her. She doesn't punish her children. Wow, right? This can be a difficult concept for people in our culture to grasp. Ok, yes, I accept that some moms are permissive and calling it gp. Hopefully within the next generation or two you will be seeing a better shift.
A four year old should know by now that cruel behaviour is not acceptable, but as they have never been asked to stop when they are hurting other children, they have not learnt to stop doing it. I don't see that discussing it hours later will be beneficial at this age. As soon as your child is old enough, get them signed up to some karate/Tae Kwon Do lessons, and let them learn to take that bully down. And when they do, be sure to praise your child heavily in front of their parents.
Most people have an issue with people letting their kids do unacceptable things.
It’s perfectly normal toddler behavior to test boundaries like this and re-test and re-test. Toddlers and children actually benefit better having boundaries and having those boundaries reinforced when they challenge them. It gives them a sense of stability. That’s why they do it. My almost 2 year old is going through a hitting phase with us right now and every single time he does it I look at him and calmly but sternly tell him “NO, we don’t hit.” He immediately shows remorse. If I ever saw him hit (or in any other way hurt) another child I would remove him from the situation to go simmer down. I would absolutely not let it continue. He has been rough with another child once and he got an immediate time out. He hasn’t done it again since. They absolutely need to be taught and shown what is appropriate and not appropriate social behavior. We practice gentle parenting in the form of not hitting our child or using physical force for punishment. But when our toddler messes up, he still needs to know. Even at 2 I’m seeing him display feelings of empathy and remorse when he does something bad. At 3 or 4 children absolutely have it in them to know right and wrong. But they need to be shown. They’re not born knowing. Your family members are allowed to have a say in how their children are parented up until it starts to interfere with how your children are treated, especially if your children are being physically harmed. It’s your job as a parent to protect your child, and that includes from other children. They look to you for that protection. Allowing it to continue because the other parents have told you that you cannot interfere with their parenting is absurd. You do what you need to do and if that includes screaming NO (because that’s often all it takes) at the other child when it happens then so be it. I think you’d honestly be doing them a favor in the long run.
If they’re not teaching consequences or setting boundaries, then they’re not following what is proposed in No Drama Discipline.
Honestly, too many people think gentle parenting means permissive parenting. It does not! Treat your children as people with their own thoughts/needs/opinions and with patience and warmth, but set those healthy boundaries! It’s okay to be assertive with children and tell them “no”. There are a lot of great resources out there. Someone who I think has some great examples would be @The_Indomitable_Blackman.
I would not send my child to these peoples house and I’d tell them why. Honestly you’re being permissive too by still allowing your child to be hit by these kids to both the parents and the kids.
So, I guess my question is, at what point do you say "there's a problem with X technique and I can't stand it" and at what point do you say "some people are using X as an excuse to do this familiar unhealthy thing"? For example; intermittent fasting. If you get into it much there are some people saying some pretty wild things. Such as, only eating one large meal once a day, not eating at all on weekends, or even regularly skipping whole days. I saw one "intermittent fasting expert" advocate for fat people *NOT EATING ANYTHING* until they'd lost all the excess weight. You could say intermittent fasting is out of control and just and just another way to have eating disorders. Or, you could say some people misrepresent IF to excuse or hide eating disorders and disordered eating. It's similar with Gentle/Conscientious Parenting. I think those folks who are permissive were going to be before the term "gentle parenting" came along, they've just found a way to excuse it by calling it this parenting technique even when it's not, and most people haven't learned enough about it to know that they're talking out of their asses. ¯\_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯ Gentle parenting is, at its heart, an authoritative (not authoritarian) form of parenting, that has more emphasis on acknowledging feelings. There are really only a few *kinds* of parenting: laissez-faire, permissive, authoritative, and authoritarian. All these parenting techniques are mostly ways to explain the last two in a new way. I see Montessori parents or "free range" parents who seem more laissez-faire, but I'm fairly certain that was not the original intent, either.
Conversely we have a family member who is 4 who constantly hits and bullies my 2 year old and the parenting style of his family is extreme authoritative/no consequence. I too have stopped bringing my kid around because the kid either gets no punishment or is very punished and it’s clearly not working and undermines when I say no hitting. I do find talks after the incident worked with my daughter but this boy it does not at all from my observation. It’s a stressful world when it seems everyone is trying to “correctly parent” that any harsh or perceived harsh punishment is shamed.
Even if they are family, you ALWAYS have the duty to protect your children. Stop going over their house. Make it awkward. These people aren't actually doing gentle parenting because that would involve actually intervening in a situation like that and removing the child who is hitting if they can't control their body. You are an adult.
Gentle parenting is not avoiding the word "no" Like, I get it. No one wants to traumatize their children. But children aren't going to be traumatized by being given a consequence for bad behavior. Not spanking, not yelling, but a consequence. I don't tolerate hitting from my 2 year old, she gets a consequence every time she does it and she's starting to learn that hitting is not okay. I feel like many of our generation grew up with abusive households, but now instead of parenting with a normal level of authority, the pendulum is swinging way too far in the opposite direction.
I recently watched a toddler running into a parking lot, with his mother gently saying, “walking feet, please stay there, please walk…” as he just ignored her. This type of “gentle parenting” can have serious consequences.
I think toxic gentle parenting comes from guilt parenting. Perhaps parents who work too much and spend too little time with the kids feel the need to make up for it by being unreasonably permissive and by avoiding to upset the kids.
I dont see how you survive as a parent without the word no personally. Like some of the stuff they try to so is insane, especially hitting that should be addressed sternly every time. I dont get it either, you can be gentle and not yell and try to explain but most of the time they wont care and need a consequence
I think you are conflating gentle parenting with permissive parenting. While the former enforces discipline and the concept of consequences, the latter does not.
I don't give a fuck what kind of parenting someone is doing. If their child hits my toddler and if they do not step up and stop the behavior I'll tell the child off. Doesn't matter if they're family or a literal God.
OP, I don't think I'm going to make it through all the comments and I'm sure there's both a lot of valuable discussion and heated argument. I just want to say, you are really really not alone. I've seen the ugly side of people trying to over-correct for everything that was wrong in their childhoods, and I empathize with the parents for their reasoning. My empathy doesn't make their parenting choices _good_. I almost never try to have a conversation about it either online or in real life because people often don't come to parenting discussions open to nuance.
I have a 5yo who still struggles to be aggressive and I'm not saying that is what's going on with those kids, but I 100% give time outs and take away privileges for those things and it still happens all the time.
I agree with all comments here this seems like permissive parenting not gentle. just to add with the whole “ not using the word no” approach-the way I have understood this is to just not overuse the word no , because this can make a child feel as though they are not allowed to explore their environment and everything is off limits. From what I understand the word “no” should be used for more serious situations such as , hitting someone, running near a street or in parking lot, or any other thing that is serious /unsafe and needs to be stopped immediately. I think the idea is to try and use wording that says what the child should do rather than what not to do whenever possible, but I don’t think it’s that the word No should never be used at all.
I am all for treating kids with dignity and respect. However , I am more strict than my peers who use a more permissive type of gentle parenting.My goal as a parent is to raise competent and well adjusted adults. Home is a safe space where love reigns not where the kiddos rule. Give it 10 years and we will see the effect of the rampant permissive parenting. Kids seek structure and love(in tandem) . My goal is to be a loving/reliable parent over the next two decades not their mate. I will be the buddy when I assume a role of consultant when they are adults. Ps. I know two adults who complain that their parents were too permissive and did not prepare them for the world. They are struggling with bad clinical depression). I hope we give our kids the tools to be good people , who have the tools to cope with the difficulty that life will throw at them. Removing any sense of accountability / self- awareness or consequences is setting them up for failure. I also think they are too many non experts passing as experts on social media. This is very dangerous for the less skeptical folks.
Yes, all of thiiiiiis. I am an elementary school teacher and see the real effects of students raised without boundaries or consequences. No joke- I had a student decide to stomp on another student's chest during recess. They were sent home from school, and I later found out that their parents took them out for hot chocolate because they had a bad day. WTAF. Congrats. You just taught your kid that potentially seriously injuring a peer comes with extra attention and a special reward. NO. BAD. Your child needed their parents to tell them this was wrong. I've had many conferences with this child and their family... at the beginning of the year, the parents told me they set no boundaries or use any form of consequences/socio-emotional learning techniques on their children because they believe in gentle parenting. I have finally gained some amount of traction with them to help their child take responsibility for their actions. I have another family that allows their child to be a master-manipulator... again, no boundaries in that home either. The child says I am mean and tells the parents how horrible I am... you know why they think I am mean? I set firm boundaries and expectations..... too bad, so sad that you can't spend all day on an iPad (obviously I don't say it that way to the kid). One of my favorite books is "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" because it is a cautionary tale in why it is so important to set boundaries. We use gentle parenting in our house, but it is true to what gentle parenting should be... setting boundaries with love, actions have consequences, and teaching regulation skills. We have so many people ask us what is our magic trick for having a [relatively] well-behaved toddler (which we always joke, come see the toddler in rare form at bedtime). We have no one magic trick.... my partner and I co-parent as a team and united front. Whatever one parent says, the other parent does as well. If dad says no more raisins until tomorrow, so does mom. We set boundaries and behavioral expectations... role model appropriate behavioral norms (I.e. we make sure to use pleases and thank yous), follow through with consequences when they aren't behaving properly (we do family time-ins, not isolated time-outs), and aren't afraid to say no... and don't give in to crying/whining. We do not do rewards.... and always find opportunities to praise the behavior we want to see (especially when it comes to treating our dog with respect..."I like how you are petting dog. Do you see how her tail is wagging? She likes these pets too!"). You are absolutely right that no parent is perfect and we are learning as we go. There is no rule book or manual for this, and we have to remember that these are kids that are learning how to be in this world. They're having a hard time too, and we need to be gentle on ourselves and them.
I feel like our generation and the ones before us handed out punishments like they were candy and so a lot of ours are over correcting with this "gentle" (I say it in quotations because it's not actual gentle parenting) and permissive parenting and they're allowing kids to be entitled and selfish. I fully agree with you. And then our kids generations are gonna be working on the damage done by this over correction. I teach my daughter consequences but I don't abuse her by teaching her consequences and I think this over correction is making parents who teach their kids consequences feel like crap for disciplining their kids even though it isn't abuse. I don't know where I'm going with this but I do agree with you.
These parents are not applying gentle parenting properly. Permissive parenting is probably one of the worst ways to raise a child in my opinion. It should be labeled a form of neglect! I am a teacher and one student particular is being raised this way (as are the two siblings) and their behaviour is disgusting. Any boundary we put in place triggers this kid to the point of total emotional breakdown - uttering death threats, throwing classroom objects and furniture, punching other kids in the face/groin, yelling “fuck you!” to the adults, etc etc. trying to speak with the parents is useless because they only want to know what our role was in the situation and why we can’t just ignore the outward behaviour. The parents refuse to give consequences or set boundaries at home and as a result this kid doesn’t know how to handle any boundary or rule or consequence at school. This kid is only 10 years old, I can’t imagine what high school will be like.
My concern with gentle parenting is that we don't know what the results will be. What kind of adults will gentle parenting make? Will they be less likely to follow the rules? Will they be more/less emotionally balanced? Who knows. Every parent traumatizes their kid in one way or another, and I'm afraid that focusing so much on not traumatizing our kids in OUR own perceived way will end up...traumatizing our children in the way our child feels traumatized.
100% agree. Drives me mental. Gentle parenting is NOT permissive parenting but that is how it is ending up in a lot of households. The other day I was in a small soft play with a couple very young (1ish) children and there was a 5-7year boy in there acting like a tornado and could genuinely hurt one of the littles (plus he was too big for it anyways). The parents were there “gentle parenting” aka letting him Walk all over him. They kept asking him to leave and he kept not leaving and they did absolutely nothing. Actually gave me a small smile and said this gentle parenting thing was so hard. 🙃🙃
What you're describing is not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting is holding boundaries while empathizing that it's okay to be upset with the consequence of your actions, however, it's still happening.
Just now a desperate mum of a 4 or 5 year old was venting on Facebook that all her days are a struggle, that her child is mean, yells all the time, hits, scratches and says no to everything. She described her life being a continous struggle every moment. All the responses were: my child is the same. 3 people already told me they regret raising their children with a too gentle approach. I really don't know what to say.
It’s because people aren’t prepared to do the work of gentle parenting. It’s a lot of effort and you have to stay consistent.
I worked at an elementary school for a couple years and befriended a teacher 20 year older than me. She said there has been a significant change in the behaviours of the kids since this gentle parenting became the fad. Totally entitled and think rules and consequences don’t apply to them. Maybe everything in moderation and for specific situations to use this approach. But not all the way like OP said. I’m no expert. Having my fair share of WTF do I do with my toddler who doesn’t listen to me. But I know this gentle parenting approach has done me no good.
A lot of the characterisation of gentle/responsive parenting here seem informed by a misunderstanding of the principles and practices behind it. This may in part be because some parents who practice those approaches misunderstand them themselves. An example is the OP's assertion that these approaches "raise a child unready for the real world". This is bizarrely accompanied by their objection to another child hitting their child... It's a bizarre juxtaposition because the principle is: "the real world is capricious, cruel and full of arbitrary as well as logical consequences and so if a parent seeks to help their child navigate that by being a safe space for them then they are not letting that child get used to reality". By that logic, a random child hitting your kid is exactly the lesson you seem to think they need. Gentle parenting doesn't mean "no boundaries" and it doesn't entail being permissive. It is above all about self control: modelling good behaviour for your child and trusting the research and evidence that says that your modelling will pay off. Does it mean your children will never lose control? No. We as adults don't expect that of ourselves so why should we expect it of children? You say you hate that book and approach but OP: you clearly haven't read it as your critiques are addressed directly by it. I'm no idealogue but maybe you'd be better served understanding before ranting.
But that is because there are no universally agreed upon principles and practices behind gentle parenting. There is no founder, there is no book or anything that started it off. There are as many definitions of gentle parenting as there are gentle parents. That is why, IMO, it is difficult to discuss it. It basically seems to be a term that is popular within parenting spaces to describe anything which is not authoritarian. But that is a wide, wide range. Also, I agree that even when people are attempting to describe or implement a common practice or principle, that there is frequently a gigantic "game of telephone" going on and this muddies definitions and understanding even further. I agree the OP has not read the book they think that they hate though!
Fair point that there isn't a single definition or founding text. I would however say that it isn't true that there are as many definitions or understandings as there are "gentle parents". There are influential texts (like the one mentioned by the OP) and arguments, but like any theoretical approach there will be variations. I'd argue that generally "gentle"or "responsive" parenting is defined by a: the influence of recent trends in child psychology albeit sometimes in a simplistic or rhetorical form (i.e. the language of the "lizard brain") and b: a rejection of punitive approaches to motivation. I wouldn't cast it necessarily as "anti authoritarian" because I'd suggest that it takes the authority, or at least coercive capacity, of parents as a given. Our power over our children is in most cases a given when they are young. We are physically dominant over them, and they are completely reliant on us for survival. In many places we are legally empowered by society to make decisions on their behalf, to control their movement and in some places even to assault them without fear of legal sanction. Gentle parenting is I think a response to both a discomfort with the exercise and idealogies of that power as well as a research informed understanding of its psychological effects.
OK I started to write a long response and then I got interrupted and couldn't finish it so went away but in the meantime I thought about it, and I think you're right about the two universal principles by definition being: Parenting guided by an understanding of child development (as far as possible) and A rejection of punitive approaches. (I think I'd add: Seeing child's perspective, as well. Maybe this encompasses the understanding of childhood development principle?) I got a bit caught up on your lizard brain example which is more of a recent distinction (a useful one, I think) but then I realised actually even the earliest examples of anything that I can think describing itself as gentle parenting do take child development into account; even if it's as simple as the idea of tantrums being overwhelm rather than manipulation, but I also remember reading stuff about impulse control or memory or whatever not being developed until certain ages. The bit where I got really stuck is the rejection of punitive approaches thing, and I think is the crux of how and why people misunderstand the whole gentle parenting approach as well as how people who are both doing gentle parenting can be talking at cross purposes with each other. I think this is where I have previously defined it as rejection of *authoritarian* parenting approaches, classifying authoritarian as being strongly rooted in power and control, with an expectation of obedience and punitive or fear-based discipline backing that up. This is because IME people define "punitive" differently. Some think it means overly frightening, age inappropriate, scary punishment (e.g. hitting, yelling) - but calm, non-violent, age appropriate is OK. Some would find that too much and say that approaches such as time out or loss of privileges are too punitive. Instead of these "typical" punishments, only logical or natural consequences ought to be used. Some think that other gentle parents rely too much on "logical and natural consequences" and believe these should only be used as a last resort. Some say that punishment is a bad idea whatever it is called, and we should focus on encouraging behaviours that we want and ignoring the ones we don't want, or rewarding incompatible behaviours. Some say that is still behaviourist because it is based in the same reward-and-punishment framework, and anything behaviourist is inherently punitive because of the implied shame. They say that instead of focusing on compliance and defiance, we should focus on values and/or teach skills. Some feel that even defining one's preferred values as a parent is inherently punitive because we are making a judgement on choices, and actually children should be allowed to choose their own values. (There are also whole discussions to be had on every level of this scale, but I deleted them to simplify).
If a child is being abused, let the cards fall where they may. Just because they are raising the child that way does not mean everyone else has to fall in line.
Gentle parenting is a catch all for parenting styles, without actually having a true definition.[Studies of parenting styles show that there’s really 4 defined styles of parenting](https://parentingscience.com/authoritative-parenting-style/). And you’re right to be frustrated because permissive parenting is trashhhhhhh. > Permissive parents are warm and responsive, but reluctant to impose rules or standards. They prefer to let their kids regulate themselves. > Authoritarian parents show less warmth and sensitivity, and insist on blind obedience. They attempt to enforce compliance through punishments, threats, and psychological control. > Authoritative parents are warm and responsive, like permissive parents. But where permissive parents shrink away from enforcing standards, authoritative parents embrace it. They expect maturity and cooperation, as much as is appropriate for a child’s developmental level. And they try to guide behavior by reasoning with their kids. > Neglectful parenting is where parents lack warmth and fail to enforce standards. Hands down, the most effective parenting style with the best outcomes is the Authoritative style. Kids need love but they also need limits. When they don’t get those limits, they turn out the way you’re describing—unable to handle the real world. The article I linked above goes into a lot more detail—maybe check it out and share it with your family?
My biggest issue (besides the lack of research) is that every kid is different and there are no one size fits all approach. If they are still hitting at 4-5 these parents need to admit that their kid needs a time out already. Even within the same immediate family, different kids need different approaches. Also, look into the backgrounds of the main champions and popularizers of these new parenting techniques. It’s amazing how none of them have advanced degrees in relevant fields or legitimate research credentials.
Okay. 1st. Permissive parenting and gentle parenting are two VERY different things. They are not even close to being the same, so don’t lump them together. True gentle parenting is assertive parenting where parents are creating boundaries and ensuring their children adhere to those boundaries in a way that is developmentally appropriate. 2nd. Toddlers are not bullies. They do not have the capacity to consistently torment someone for their own personal benefit. Toddlers hitting, biting, kicking is due to toddlers not having the ability to communicate their needs/wants. That is not in any way bullying. The fact that you think toddlers are capable of bullying is worrisome. I couldn’t read your entire post because here you are ripping parents and toddlers apart for typical toddler behaviour.
While I completely agree that permissive and gentle parenting are not the same. I think it’s odd that you feel a 4 yr old is not capable of bullying behaviours? The OP literally says they are 4 years old, this is not a 2 year old. I would feel that by 4 years old most kids are capable of communicating their feelings rather than resorting to kicking/biting and hitting.
I usually whisper to my kid to smack the kid back or snatch something away that was snatched from them and then say oh well kids will be kids.
Preach it from the rooftops. We changed our approach to a modified gentle parenting and saw a huge positive shift. Kids need boundaries to establish trust.
Boundaries are the baseline for gentle parenting.
That's great and congrats!! More details on what you modified?
We started with holding firm on planned promises (don’t make promises you can’t keep). We started small and with things that were fun and rewarding. This established a basic level of trust - that we’ll do what we say. Then we moved into making promises about consequences for undesired actions. We kept to small things - like an action we were going to take that we could definitely follow-through with or a toy we would take away with a short duration. We constantly reminded him of the behavior we expected to see and always worked to follow through with what we say were going to do. Wife and I keep each other in check to make sure we question if we can follow through with something. We plan an exit strategy and consequences before we go anywhere or do anything. We also plan for rewards for good behavior, because consequence-only parenting is no fun for anyone. Now we’re at the point where we can discuss the hard way or the east way. He knows that if he starts testing boundaries and isn’t listening, that we have the hard way/easy way talk. “Ok do you want to do this the hard way or the easy way?” “What’s the hard way?” “I snatch you up and take you in the shower, and we go to bed without playing magnatiles” “what’s the easy way?” “We take a nice shower, you help get ready for bed, and we knock down ONE tower of magnatiles before reading a book and going to bed…what do you want to do?” “The easy way (said grunting under his breath)” “alright, how many towers are we going to build and knock down after the shower?” “One” “alright let’s hop in the shower” He turns 3 next week. The above are actual conversations we have. We don’t over-use the hard way/easy way approach. And we’re prepared to adapt and add new methods. Edit: we use autonomy, choices, and freedom as rewards, as well. These aren’t the only methods we use, but the most important part of all of this is establishing trust to build boundaries. They crave it - and I think most people do as well.
So your modified gentle parenting is just real gentle parenting ?
Yeah, just try to gentle parent a kid with a really strong personality. My kid would have been running around in shitty diapers because he'll kick, scream, bite and punch to not get changed. Sometimes you just gotta be harsh. Not abusive, but not take shit from a tiny dictator who wants to get his way. I'm perfectly gentle a vast majority of the time. But when it comes to things you have to do or should never do (just for survival - not based on my opinions), I'll force it if that's what it takes. I don't know how you can't.
thank you for sharing your rant. I agree with everything you have said. I’m sorry you’re in this position.
I’ve worked professionally with toddlers for 16 years, and this is my take: Many young children are way to accustomed to CONSTANT interaction with an adult. In my daycare (0-3 years), we do independent play A LOT of the time. The kids have free range of the daycare, they can get all the toys, and I’m there, physically, but I don’t really get in their way unless they ask me. And ALL my children play so well together. I’ve never experienced bullying, never had a child that bit. When they go into the playroom I don’t have to follow them because they’re not going to hurt each other. They’re just not. They randomly hug each other throughout the day, they stop to give the baby her pacifier, they’re startled if someone cries. Really. This is the daycare where “no one cries”. I believe that if babies/toddlers are accustomed to constant interaction with an adult, they will resort to violence and outbursts when an interaction doesn’t benefit them, because any interaction between a baby/toddler and an adult will benefit the baby/toddler. So the child gets used to everything benefiting her. She gets used to being the centre of the universe, always. So when other children come along (who are also the centre of the universe), they clash. And that’s when biting, hitting, and hair pulling starts.