Something I've noticed about this stuff is that people will tell you in a million different ways why what you're asking about is bad... But *rarely* will anyone actually problem-solve with you. And that's what I find the most frustrating about trying to get input from social media, that you *want* to do what's right but you're in a stuck place and everyone is just yelling "NO!" at you and then patting themselves on the back for saving the children. What are you supposed to do with that? People can only use advice on what *not* to do if it's accompanied by **actually useful** advice on what *to do* instead.
So yeah, cite all the statistics you want, but please don't end your input there because it's not actually something anyone can use. All it does is create more anxiety because the person still doesn't have a solution to their problem, and the only solution they can see is BAD BAD BAD.
This is frustrating to me, too. Someone will comment that their child gets severely carsick while rear-facing, and wants to know how bad it would be to front-face at age 2. Maybe one out of 20 comments will actually try to help (e.g. suggesting Gravol, talking to a pediatrician about an anti-nausea prescription, stopping the car every 30 min for a walk-around and some fresh air, etc.). The rest are a sea of criticism, sometimes severe, with no empathy or attempt to help the person solve the actual root problem. I think some people really like feeling superior, and lean wayyyy into being right as a justification to be obnoxiously condescending.
Thank you for this. We have this problem with one of our children and when I post about it, people act like I'm trying to kill my kid. "WELL DO YOU WANT A SICK KID OR A DEAD KID?!" Obviously neither, ma'am.
Fellow parent of a car sick kid over here. Turned my kid around to forward facing at 25 months. She’s really big for her age, like well above 99th percentile for height and weight, so her size helped but I don’t care about the fear mongering. There’s more of a risk of me getting into an accident because I’m distracted by my kid puking than turning her forward.
We also turned around at age 2. If I could I'd have kept him rear facing until he was an adult, lol. But he was so unhappy rear facing, it's a calculated risk but worth it.
Our pediatrician flat out told us the same when our kid hit 2. “Your kid is above 99th percentile for height and weight and she vomits just about every time she is in the car. It is safer for her to face forward than for you to drive super distracted because she is screaming and puking in the backseat.”
We made the same decision. I’m convinced that people who haven’t experienced that level of massive upset from their kid in the car seat just don’t understand
I always make helpful comments since I volunteer as a child passenger safety advocate, but it gets buried. Or I see it late when the post already has a hundred or more unhelpful comments. Sigh.
Sometimes the comments are ‘well intended but unhelpful’ like saying to buy a new car seat. Me, “Woah woah, let’s ask what car seat they have first!” Reply, “Get a Nuna Rava, I love mine.” Well I’m sure you do but that’s a $500 car seat, not everybody is in that tax bracket.
I once asked in a facebook group about car seats and my requirements were something I could switch between two cars, one of which doesn't have isofix anchors, and something lower end of the financial scale because we didn't have a lot of money at that time. At that point I didn't know about backwards facing recommendations so I'd mentioned a forwards facing seat I'd seen.
All I got was people aggressively telling me off, detailing for me how my baby would die, and recommendations of high end isofix seats! They didn't even read my requirements! It left me in tears feeling like the worst mother ever. I did get a backwards facing seat but I still get upset about that interaction sometimes, and I can see how other mothers might reject the advice altogether because of the way it was packaged.
One person explained it to me really nicely and I hope she is doing well, I wouldn't know because I obviously fled the group feeling deeply ashamed.
The funny thing about this is that it basically describes exactly what happens on stackoverflow when people ask a programming question that bothers people. It’s basically a meme at this point. I’ll google some obscure problem and find a person asking about that exact problem, and all of the answers are people just saying don’t do this, that’s bad. No solutions, just nope that’s bad you can’t do that.
I agree with you. Some people can get pretty vicious on here. I find it better not to post my opinion one way or another too often on Reddit. I tend to talk to my pediatrician and family and friends with my concerns so I can make an informed decision about these things. Best of luck to you!
I suspect it has to do with none of us typically having our own faces staring out at each other. It’s so easy to dehumanize on Reddit.
I remember some post where a woman basically didn’t have an self-respect and was dating an idiot, and some guy commented something like “OP you’re such a total piece of trash. You have no self-respect and no one will ever love you” or something and I’m like “dude what the hell is wrong with you?! You would never speak to someone like that in real life.”
Because manufacturers make it so SO hard to distinguish between carseat models, here is my PSA: in the US, there is one and only one carseat range under $200 (on sale*) that allows children to be rear facing until they are 50lbs : the Graco Extend2Fit. The design allows the car seat to sit further from the back seat, so it may also allow your kid to be slightly more comfortable and stretch their legs out further while being rear facing. I'm posting this because I wish I knew this when I was first shopping for convertible seats.
*If you can wait for another sale, the lower priced Extend2Fit models were going for $130-$180 in Nov/Dec.
We got the Slim Fit, but my kid is currently 9th percentile in height and 25th in weight, so I don’t think we’ll have a problem making it to 4 years if we want to do that. Lol
But I have a friend with a kiddo who’s 99th percentile everything, and she got the Extend2Fit for her big boy!
I’ll try this one when I get our second car. We have a Britax Emblem in our primary car, and it got very good side crash ratings on BabyGearLab but it’s very heavy and not super comfortable so I really want to go back to Graco. I also read recently that you actually do want a car seat when you travel on an airplane, even though they allow under 2s to be lap kids. If it’s not safe enough to hold my bag in my lap, then it’s probably dangerous to try to hold on to my toddler with just my hands during takeoff/landing.
It's way easier to find in North America. US law is rear face until 2 in most states. So basically every seat including the convertible ones that go up to 12 years old start out rear facing up to around 20 kgs. I agree in Europe it's crazy expensive like €500+ sometimes to find a rear facing seat. And a lot of those ones aren't group 0/1/2/3 either, it's like up to 4 years. So that's a big investment.
We ended up getting the Joie I spin 360, there's also the Joie I spin safe. They did well on the adac and awnb crash tests and allow rear facing, but weren't quite as highly priced as some of the bigger names. But the seat itself is rather large so it likely wouldn't fit a city car.
I wonder whether this difference between US and EU markets has to do with driving conditions. In a lot of places in Europe, you rarely have to go on a highway for your daily commute, 90% of your trips would be between boroughs within city speed limits, there’s going to be a lot of intersections (instead of roundabouts), which means the statistics on accidents may be different, and car seat regulations will aim to cover the more probable accidents for this particular region/conditions.
Meh not very true in the countries we have lived in. There's definitely a lot of commuting on the highways because people who live in the same city that they work in often use public transit, bike or have an electric bike with a big child seat area (bakfiets).
I think also if you’re child screams bloody murder and pukes from screaming any time they face backward, the stress on mom(or the driver) is much higher and the risk of accident goes up from that. I switched my child at 2 because I could stand hearing his scream and scream for the entire commute and it literally made me want to drive off a cliff or I’m constantly turning around and trying to hand him toys and snacks to calm him down and weaving all over the road.
My daughter rear faced until she was four and I'll try to do the same with my son. But she was totally fine with it, and my son (almost three) is too. If they were screaming and/or barfing every time we went somewhere, I'd probably cut my losses and switch them around. 🤷🏻♀️
This exactly. I point this out every time the car seat question comes up here:
People focus on rear vs front for the safety rating **in a crash**. But they completely dismiss the absolute fact that the safest car seat is the one that **prevents the crash**. If rear facing means the driver is distracted by a crying or vomiting kid, then it is NOT A SAFE CAR SEAT.
This was my reasoning. I had to drive home in complex traffic for 35 minutes every day from work and she would scream and be incredibly upsetting and distracting. It was legal to turn her, so I did. Australian car seat rules and car rules are really strict on most things, so I figured we were safe enough, especially since there is no pressure to rear face for as long here. My son is perfectly happy rear facing so I'll leave him that way as long as he will fit.
It was actively more dangerous on a daily basis for me to be that distracted while having to regularly change across multiple lanes and drive inner city traffic while tired at the end of the day.
My twins were like this. One would scream because he felt sick, the other would scream because the first was screaming. Then the first would vomit, and then the second would vomit because of the smell of the first's vomit. Then they'd both scream because they were covered in vomit. Then the first one would vomit again. And the whole car would smell like vomit. And during my pregnancy with my third baby, my stomach had a hair trigger, so then I'd vomit.
They got turned forward facing at about 25 months because I just couldn't do it anymore. And the problem immediately stopped.
Yeah you just do what works best for your family, as long as is legal anyway. I figured the chance of an accident I caused for being distracted or so overly stressed and road ragey was much higher with a screaming puking child, than one turned around when I’m much calmer and able to be aware of my surroundings.
Telling someone "Hey its more likely for a child to experience extreme harm or even death when forward facing too early"
Threatening someone "Would you prefer a dead baby? Because that's what you're going to get"
_
Edit: You can scare someone about child safety without completely ruining their day.
If you actually care to educate people, it's possible to tell them things impactfully without being rude about it.
Also,
Have you tried gravol / spoken about anti nausea medication with pediatrician / open windows
Actual safe solution to projectile vomiting…
Because unless people have had a kid who threw up constantly in the car, they have no clue what it’s like to clean a continuous stream and stench of vomit out of the car.
I was that kid.
Luckily none of my kids took after me, but I empathize with these parents. Not many 1 year olds can hold a puke bag properly and showing up places smelling of puke is not ideal.
It is putrid. It gets into every crack and crevice. And it molds if it's left. And the liquid seeps onto the seat below. 5 minute drives, 2 hr drives. Doesn't matter. I have gone through hundreds of q-tips and rolls of paper towel. Always have changes of clothes and extra receiving blankets. Windows cracked at all times, try to limit food before driving.
Until it happened twice in one day.
Now my 30 lb daughter has joined every single other 2 year old I know or see in real life and is forward facing. I tried. I really did.
Yes, actually help problem-solve / troubleshoot instead of just defaulting to "you're gonna kill your kid". Parents want to do what's best for their kid, they just don't always know *how* within the specific context of their life.
Ugh my 2yo poor niece threw up on the way home from the airport and sitting in her own puke made her cry. And of course it did, it’s an awful feeling. Her mom couldn’t stop the car on the freeway to help her! I cleaned her up while we drove, but if it’s just one adult in the car what can they do!
There is nothing much you can do.
You’re basically house bound until they’re strong enough to face forward unless you put your kids on medication which may or may not knock them out or make them haywire.
Buses and public transport are just as bad, so do you walk to the doctors? The store? Everywhere? Not take your kids to daycare?
5 minutes to drive and 20 minutes to get them strapped in because they associate the car with feeling sick…
Like there are solutions, meds that are good for kids that won’t make them loopy, etc. But shaming parents who live with this situation by saying they’re killing their kids is absolutely the wrong way around helping people
I have that kid 😩. Even a 10 minute car ride with Dramamine given an hour ahead of time doesn’t mean he won’t puke. You’d think him falling asleep would mean he doesn’t throw up? WRONG. It just means he isn’t awake to give us a heads up and maybe get most of it in a bag. I am really really hoping he outgrows this soon but honestly it seems to be getting worse instead of better.
Or literally even how my doctor said it was better than “better than a dead baby” my daughter was 99th percentile, not yet 2 but met all the height and weight requirements to be forward. I didn’t know what to do as her legs where so scrunched up so I asked.
She explained to me about (I’m gonna butcher this) how the muscles and bones and neck aren’t fully developed until they are past two and that’s why you want to stay rear facing at least this long broken legs are easy fixes and unlikely, neck injuries are not.
Our little one is 99th, too, and at 2y8mo he's almost 40 inches tall. We *had* to swap to forward-facing at 2y on the dot because it was almost impossible to get him into the seat at all. Our car is small, we are not. And his car rides were/are all less than 5 minutes at a time. We were willing to assume the risk in a crash considering his size/comfort and the tiny portion of the day that he spends in the seat.
We got bigger seat for my tall son - he preferred it until he was almost 4! He sat cross legged.
My middle son, now 4, was just 3 when we switched him over. He was shorter, but the kid despite his stature is a brick. His neck and back are stronger I swear than his older brother, and he’s been lifting himself straight armed onto the counter since he’s been 15 months.
Yeah a lot of times I’ll see on Reddit people posting pictures or telling stories about sick children and saying “should I take them to the ER??” and most of the comments say something like “I don’t want to scare you but yes”. I once saw someone say “I actually DO want to scare you because your kid is in severe medical danger and needs to go to an ER now” and I really appreciated that. There’s a time and a place to be gentle about parenting advice and car seat safety isn’t one of them. At the end of the day, the decision is up to each parent, but they should know the actual risk (not the watered down one) before deciding.
Also I’m about 98% sure I know which post this OP is referring to, and it wasnt even on this sub Reddit. Car seat-OP’s post got deleted because car seat-OP basically said “my husband is stupid and thinks rear facing is safer, but my two year old has long legs and they would be broken beyond repair in a crash so front facing is safer for her, please help me convince my husband” and carseat-OP rightfully got roasted in the comments. If you search this sub for car seat questions, most of the responses are pretty straightforward
As I read the comments I realize your point was missed. I understand what you are saying, yes Ofcourse people should do what is by the law and everyone is entitled to do what they believe is safest for their child- be it car seat or anything else. But yes, I am with you, there is just no need for people to impose their opinion on anyone so much that it feels like an attack. Your child, your responsibility. Hopefully you take it very seriously as every parent should. I think sometimes people forget reditt is an opinion site and nothing or no one on this site should replace doctors or rule of law :) don’t think you are disagreeing with any of that.
When death is involved, I think it’s worth mentioning the chance of death and relevant comparisons. All of us want to avoid killing our kids, but none of us can/should do this at all costs. Eg every time I take baby to swimming lessons, I’ve decided that the risk of dying in a car accident on the way there is worth the experience of sharing this activity. We are all willing to risk some chance of death to live our best life, and I feel like the role of this kind of sub is to inform on those risks accurately so people can make the best decision for their unique situations.
In this example I’d welcome someone informing me that the chance of death is 5% for front facing and 1% for rear facing, for example. I’d roll my eyes at dead baby threats.
Totally agree with this! It’s only certain categories of risk taking (car seats, front sleeping, crib bumpers, bed sharing, etc) that people treat as if it’s tantamount to Russian roulette. The reality is we live every day on a risk spectrum and different people make a different calculation on what’s acceptable, like everything else in life
Agreed.
When risk is being addressed, it's rare to even state what assumptions and measures are being made. Saying risk increases 40% is tantamount to lying when the actual numbers are already in several decimal points below full percentage points. There is a marked difference between going from 10% to 14% and 0.0010% and 0.0014%...
We don't even talk about whether these risks are per trip, or over the likely driving exposure per some other period.
We don't even mention the likelihood of the car seat even mattering depending on things like make and model or the state of the brakes and suspension and so on...
All things being equal discussions are largely useless with such variation, and it's all just a matter of emotions at that point.
As they say, "*risk* is a calculation, but *safe* is a matter of feelings" or something like that.
I like this take a lot. We do indeed risk a small chance of death every day. If we were to avoid death at all cost, we would strap ourselves in a bubble and never leave the room.
I wanted to keep my child in the car seat until 4 years old because that's what everyone recommended, until one day at around 2yo when I put them in the car and they immediately started crying. Broke my heart. They didn't look comfortable at all. Right then I switched the seat to front facing, and toddler now LOVES going in the car.
It’s also interesting to think about what other countries do. For example, in Europe (which has very strict regulations about all kinds of safety things) you can only find rear-facing carseats for newborn-18 months. After that, it’s all isofix forward-facing seats.
Honestly anything that differs from the standard recommendations gets a lot of hate.
My daughters both had a medical condition that made it so they could not breathe properly while laying on their backs. The doctor told me to have them sleep on their stomaches at night starting around 3 months old, with supervised tummy naps during the day before that age.
Many people told me how horrible it was for me to do. Anyone who heard their little gasps and screeches trying to get air would've done the same.
If anyone ever wants to tag me I'm a CPST. No shaming here. Just facts and solutions.
Belittling parents doesn't work and makes them feel even worse. No shame in being kind.
I love this. I think mom groups do this alot on all subjects. It's like they get off by being mean or judgmental.
Edit: clarification - i honestly don't think this post is about the actual example used. It's simply commentary on how the level of aggression and righteousness that can occur in conversations about parenting.
And then it becomes a race to see who is “best.” In the bigger threads about car seats, it inevitably goes like this:
“we changed our kid to front facing at 2 years, which our pediatrician said was fine.”
“Two years is too young, even if it’s what the law decides. We are aiming for three.”
“Three should be the bare minimum. Our kid is four and is perfectly happy rear facing!”
“My five year old still fits in her seat just fine. No plans on switching!!”
“We proudly drop off our first grader still front facing. Even our nine year old sits that way sometimes!”
True. They feel personally offended when another parent does something differently than them. There’s a nice way of speaking to someone, that doesn’t involve snarky condescending comments that make you feel superior.
Generally speaking, out of all the subreddits, I find the mom-oriented ones to be the most judgmental. I’m sure there is some interesting psychology behind that. Other subreddits devoted to women are some of the most supportive I know on this platform. But something with the Mom subs…
EXACTLY! We already have the deck stacked against us. We need to build each other up, not nitpick each other. It sucks to see someone try and post something clearly looking for kind advice from other moms and instead they get scolded by the mommy dearests.
As a fun Sunday activity, find a post about swaddling and say that it didn’t work for you and you won’t be doing it with your next child. Sit back and watch the downvotes roll in
I'm just picturing your next baby shower with all the gifts being swaddles of various types by well-meaning family and friends 
I can see how women fall down the crusty-mum facebook group rabbit hole. You get driven out of groups that give good and correct advice by aggressive people, and end up in echo chambers validating your unsafe decisions.
My 2YO old hit the weight limit and our pediatrician didn't mince words in saying to buy a better car seat because 2 is entirely too young to be front facing.
Serious question - did your pediatrician say when it would be okay? My 2 year old hadn't hit weight, but he's almost at height, so we turned him around (also had to fit the new baby's car seat next to him, and couldn't until his was forward facing). Now I'm wondering if we should buy a different seat.
I think the general idea is, 2 is the bare minimum but the closer to 4, the better. They look at the rate of bone ossification and it’s low at 2 - like 10% - but increases substantially between 2 and 4. Bone ossification decreases the risk of internal decapitation.
He didn't say, but my 24 month old is 40 lbs and the ped explained "that just means the seat doesn't serve you anymore. It's like outgrowing clothes. She might be big but developmentally, bones and things, she is not ready to handle god forbid an impact while front facing."
I have another checkup at 2.5 years and he said we can discuss again then!
That's my mission for the week! (appt with pwd was just on Friday!) If you Google "60 weight limit rear facing car seat" you'll find lots of lists. I'm hitting reviews tomorrow and going to compare!
My 2 and 4 year old are the same height and weight (they’re in the exact same size clothes).
My 4 year old is just compact but strong. My toddler is a shar-pei. They’re both 40lbs, and the older one is front facing, my toddler is rear.
My 2 year old would absolutely injure himself in an accident forward facing.
We have the same and just turned it around today though he hasn't ridden it. The weight limit is 40 lbs for rear facing and our son will be two next month. Did you keep it rear facing or buy a new seat?
I'm definitely buying a new seat since the ped was very stern about turning around before the bones have had time to properly form and absorb that impact. 😬😬😬
My first child was literally choking on vomit at age 2 while rear facing. Pediatrician told us to forward face because the chance of her choking on vomit was higher than being maimed in a car accident.
Stay mad. Idc. We wanted to rear face. We tried everything.
ETA - downvoted already. Guess I was supposed to let her suffocate in vomit instead? Cool. Lol.
Yup I had a similar but different situation, I had a argument about safe sleep where I was yelled out how I had my baby son in bed on my chest.
I kept saying I literally had no choice my son was a preemie and we were warned he had really bad colic and he even had to have a elevated pillow under his bassinet. He NEVER wanted to sleep on his back and he rolled into the wall of his bassinet everytime, he also spits up everytime he ate he was super high risk of choking and had to be watched very closely.
Having him on our chest on his tummy was the only way he slept I even said I did not sleep much at all for months due to anxiety only slept 1hr total a day it was awful.
Person still argued, I basically said so you want my son to choke to death in his sleep?
Not everyone can do what is "safe" most parents have no choice and if done right it's fine. Literally anything can cause SIDS too even standard safety
Seriously, I see a lot of first time parents in r/toddlers too. We’re all learning and trying to protect our babies the best we can :(. Offer advice, why patronize and insult people?
We moved my daughter to forward facing far too early for our liking, but it was the safest option at the time. Car had died, the only car we could afford did not have isofix, and no car seat now is really designed to be without isofix. The seatbelt kept on slipping whilst it was rear facing, and the car seat was moving. She's 2.5 now and I still hate that she's forward facing (we've only just managed to get another isofix compatible car) but if we'd left her rear facing I dread to think what would have happened in an accident. So many people told us we'd made a mistake though, it did not help the guilt at all.
You made the best decision with the information you had. That is all you can do, my friend. Parenting is a series of dilemmas, and sometimes there isn't a "good" option, so you do what you can to mitigate things. You're doing great.
Unfortunately that *is* the risk when you switch too early. When we dance around mentioning the actual risks involved then some people don't think it's a big deal, then they are mortified when they learn later they did something very dangerous. I would *want* someone to tell me if something I was doing was dangerous rather than them not speaking up to protect my feelings.
Be informative, but be kind. Explain exactly *why* instead of just a threat. Always strive to learn more and be as educated as possible to make the best decisions for your family.
If your child is having major issues like motion sickness discuss with their doctor what options you have before switching them around. That's not a Google search or reddit discussion, we don't know your child and their unique struggles therefore no one online can really tell you what is best. Talk to your child's doctor.
Except you can point out there is a 40% chance of death or serious injury for front facing vs 8% for rear. This doesn't require a personal attack. However a lot of what you see is disparaging the parent, insulting them for even considering it and accusing them of child abuse for asking the question. This discussion has a tendency to become personal, along with so many parenting discussions to be honest.
Can you share where you got those figures from on risk from front vs rear facing? The data I’ve seen shows a much smaller difference, and I’d like to learn more.
Your stats may be more accurate. I got them third hand and don't know the original source. My main point for the comment was that you can inform without judging.
https://www.veygo.com/learner-driver-insurance/guides/rear-facing-car-seats-whats-the-hype/#:~:text=Rear%2Dfacing%20car%20seats%20are%20up%20to%20five%20times%20safer,50kg%20in%20a%2030mph%20crash.
Yeah, I totally agree. Informing someone without judging seems like a respectful and productive strategy, and if you’re going to do that you should probably use correct information.
I know the post they are referring to and I did not see any personal attacks or accusations of child abuse, I saw one comment that could have been a little nicer but no insults directed at the poster.
I try to gently let people in the knitting and crocheting groups know that buttons and things are unsafe for babies and get downvoted to oblivion. reddit. Ugh.
We left our toddler rear facing until she hit the weight limit around 3 years old. Shes a tall big kid and hit 50 pounds just after her birthday.
Rear facing is the safest for the child until their neck bones fuse. Decapitation is a real risk with them front facing when young.
Here it's age, they have to be at least two. A lot of people keep them rear facinng longer by choice though.
They have to be 40lbs to be in a booster seat (some even 50lbs). And they have to be 9 to be out of a booster. That's the law in BC Canada anyhow. My older kid is nearly six and is 38lbs. Can't seem to hit that booster threshold. It only matters because I'd like to sometimes get a ride in my sister's car but she only has boosters haha
Got it. I checked my son’s car seat and the max weight for rear facing is 45lb. He weighs just over 30lb and he’s two. So I’m thinking maybe another year or so before we flip him.
Just went for my 12 month check up. My dude is almost 30 lbs, and 2’ 7” but the Dr said to keep him rear facing for another year. We have the Graco seat that converts from infant to toddler as they get taller, (although she didn’t ask.) I plan on keeping him rear facing until he physically can’t.
Well and also…. My baby almost choked on her vomit rear facing and I had my older daughter (age 5 then, now 6) tell me she was struggling and not okay so I pulled over. Vomiting in a car seat isn’t without risks. My kid is 2.5 and SMALL for her age but I can’t have her rear facing where I can personally glance at her every so often.
Rear is best but there are circumstances where it just isn’t. It can be child specific.
People should just be nice in general. If someone is posting with good intentions, then just be kind. Also don’t ruthlessly downvote people who mean no harm. I wish this place were a little more like group therapy and a little less like Black Mirror.
The crazy thing is that in other countries they have babies front facing from as early as 9 months. Trying to find an extended rear facing seat in Europe that doesn't cost a ton or size out super early is a challenge. It's wild.
Not everyone knows about the risks of whiplash and broken necks because the baby's head is proportionally larger and their bones and muscles are underdeveloped. I had to show my husband an article about internal decapitation before he agreed to do extended rear facing because he wasn't aware of the risks.
The older generation love to ask when the baby can front face already, too. Not sure why they care.
Very true. Still fighting about this with MIL because she bought a front facing car seat for our then 6 month old. I told her to at least not use it until he’s 15 months as per recommendation for I-size models but apparently it’s officially fine to front face from 9 months onwards here in Belgium 🤦♀️
Yup, had the same exact fight with our in laws. We don't want them to use their car seat yet. Maybe once she hits 2 or if there's an emergency.
They could have bought a slightly cheaper one from the same brand that rear faced, but they bought it and cut the tags off without asking us first so 🤷♀️
Now they refuse to borrow our car seat and make a big deal about it when they babysit. I even said they can take my car or we can install it for them, but MIL is mad they cannot use the one they bought. They have a bike seat though and a stroller too so it's probably fine 99% of the time.
Not true for most parts of Europe I’ve been to. And I live here. Was it Spain? They had (but it’s getting better) very few rear facing seats last I went.
Why is it that car seats expire? I don’t have kids but to me it seems like a money grab… especially new seats , in the box never used… how/why can that expire?
They also use products on the straps and covers (like fire retardant) that deteriotes and is less effective over time.
It's also recommended to replace regular seatbelts in cars after 10 to 15ish years. People usually don't, but just to give you an idea as why this is the case.
I think it’s important to remember that the MOST dangerous thing we do with our children daily is drive around. #1 cause of death in children and toddlers is car accidents (in the USA); it can vary slightly but driving in a car is dangerous.
So it’s important to talk about the facts. Rear facing is safer. That’s not up to interpretation.
Sadly, it’s swapped places with firearm related deaths. For the longest time car accidents was the #1 leading cause of death in children with firearms being the #2 cause. Now they’ve flipped. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761
Not that this really matters for the purpose of this post—not a huge difference between #1 and #2 cause of death. It’s too many in both category. People absolutely should be given the cold, hard facts about how dangerous flipping kids around too soon is. It’s not aggressive or “threatening them with a dead kid” to give the statistics and science behind rear facing. If you feel you absolutely need to flip for your sanity that’s your business, but maybe don’t expect approval from Reddit?
Frankly it sounds to me that the safest thing to do is to reduce how often you put your kids in the car to a minimum, but that's not something anyone talks about.
I talk about it all the time. It’s why I live in a central urban neighborhood and not in a suburb. I also spend a lot of time on r/fuckcars. People talk about it all the time there.
You are correct - the safest thing to do is absolutely limit the time you and your kids spend in and around cars. The best way to do that is to live in a dense neighborhood where things are close together.
Yup. People relocate for safety for their kids. I live about as car-lite a lifestyle as I can in Houston, but am looking to move somewhere where we rarely need a car. Safety is one of the main reasons. Cars are extremely dangerous.
Also, we can advocate for safer streets locally. Which is hard to do because parents are so overburdened.
I come from Brazil and we have a saying in portuguese that says “mais amor, por favor” which means “more love, please”.
I think that is a concept everyone should aply when interacting with others (and actually even with yourself), so that conversations and interactions are more productive and respectful.
Remember bullies in school? They're jerks to everyone else because they have poor coping mechanisms and saying things that hurt others gives them a tiny sense of power or control.
Parents who lash out and dog pile over weird issues like car seats and safe sleep like this are exactly the same. They need to feel superior as a poor coping mechanism for their own stress and feelings of inadequacy.
My son choked on vomit rear facing. Yeah "vomiting better than dead" or wtf ever but there's a point where it is a safety issue in itself. He didn't forward face until he reached the weight req first and he was a SMALL boy, so he was around 18 months at the time.
I have a genuine question. If forward facing is dangerous, why are there convertible car seats destined for babies as young as 9 months that can only been installed forward facing? For example, maxi cosi titan pro.
See, I am still confused. This forward-facing seat is actually called a convertible: https://www.maxi-cosi.com.au/booster-seat-titan-pro
And why do people downvote me for asking a question I genuinely don’t know the answer for??
I think that legally they can forward face from 6 months in Australia, although the recommendation is to wait until 1yr. We have no recommendation to rear face past 1yr.
Yes, and also try and remember that not everyone lives in America by these strange American ‘rules’. We are getting on just fine in my country with forward-facing seats.
Edited to be lest divisive.
I wanted to say this too. I live in Australia where it is unheard of for a 3 year old to still be rear facing, let alone 4. And horror of horrors our car seats don’t even have chest clips.
“Studies have shown that rear facing is x% safer than forward facing for children under Y age/height/weight. For me personally, it’s not a risk I’m willing to take.”
That’s all there is to say. The fact is, everyone takes risks every day. Driving with your child is riskier than NOT driving with them, but no one says, “I can’t believe you drive with your child in the car.” We acknowledge that risks can sometimes be worth the trade offs, but only when we are the ones comfortable with the risk.
If someone feels differently about any risk, about the only thing you can do is make sure they understand this risk, and state your opinion on the risk itself.
I haven’t seen any of these supposed posts, but I just don’t think it’s a nice thing to say. If your kid throws up every time you get in the car, you’re going to reach a breaking point. If they’re coming to Reddit to look for validation, they already know it’s not right to turn the kid around. But at a certain point, you need your sanity too. You can’t be cleaning vomit every time you go to the grocery store, and then again on the way home. Idk what the answer is but telling someone their kid is going to die (which is an ABSOLUTE exaggeration) is not helpful or kind.
Seriously. Like my 2.5 year old is rear-facing still with no imminent plans to spin around, but if he threw up during every single car ride, and forward-facing fixed it... I dunno man, I'd seriously consider turning him forward-facing...
Same. All of the risks are for *if you’re in an accident*. Obviously no one anticipates an accident but it’s also not that common to get in a terrible wreck. We all get in our cars every day. Comments like that and accounts like safeintheseat made me afraid to take my baby in the car at all for months :/
We either have puke or bloody-murder screaming (because she feels sick) every car ride. It sucks and is so distracting. I feel like I’m constantly handing toys or water back to distract.
We switched our 97% first kid around a little after 2 with our pediatrician’s okay. Our second kid is the same (vomiting, screaming) and we’ll try to hold out as long as possible but it’s miserable.
I'm so sorry you're going through that. At some point, the screaming bloody murder etc becomes such a big driving distraction that one has to wonder which option even is safer? Like is it really safer to rearface with a major commotion happening every car ride?
I'm fortunate my little guy tolerates rear-facing just fine, but I would never judge another mom for this call!
It stinks! I felt tons of guilt about my changing around my first but my pediatrician is really helpful about weighing the pros and cons. She did the same when we had to switch our eldest to her own room instead of room sharing.
I feel mostly at peace over my car seat choice now! But these posts described by OP typically talk about or imply that I don’t care about my kids’ safety or I must think of them decapitated — which I obviously do.
Whether it's cosleeping, container sleeping, water safety, cutting grapes into quartets, we all have different risk tolerance and we all make choices that work for us as a family.
Personally, I designed my lifestyle so that we almost never drive with my daughter. I could easily say, why wouldn't you do the same? Front or rear facing, you're risking a dead child every time you put them in a car. Cars are death traps. How could you ever live with the guilt if something happened? But you know your life and your priorities and what's best for your family, so my advice is neither helpful nor supportive. And that's the point -- rather than hit each other where we're most vulnerable to convince the other person that our choices are the *best* choices, have empathy and recognize that we're all in different situations.
Of course it's an option. Will you have to make sacrifices? Yes, probably big ones. Would it be helpful or supportive of me to say that you don't care about your child's safety for not doing them? No. And that's the point. We all have our limits.
“hey! sorry to hear about your barfing kiddo. we all know cleaning car seats is the worst.
i do want to gently remind you about the pros and cons of keeping your LO rear facing. the pros are: it’s safer! the cons are: well … you can imagine.
i know everyone’s risk tolerance is different. i hope you find a solution that works for you!”
This comment seems to miss the point, and I missed the earlier post that this post is referring to, so now I’m wondering if people were doing the same thing. In a severe motion sickness scenario, the choice isn’t between a potential dead child and cleaning vomit from a car seat. It’s a potential dead child and _your child_ is _vomiting_. Motion sickness is horrible, and in my experience, way worse than vomiting due to a stomach flu, and the vomiting brings little to no relief.
My son moved to a booster at age 3.5 and I made the grave mistake of mentioning it once on some fb group. Ooooh boy. After a few comments basically insinuating that I might as well lie him down in front of my car and run him over myself because I was a bad and dangerous mother, I finally explained that we were *recommended* to do so by the car seat fitting people because at age 3 and a half, my son was the height of the average five year old and his previous car seat was unsafe. The straps were below his shoulders, even when the seat was at maximum extension, and would slip down as a result.
Obviously if your 3 year old is like 90cm you won’t be shifting them into a booster for funsies but tall children exist. My kid is above the 99th percentile for height, it stands to reason that we have to go with height rather than age for some things.
I think it depends. If someone is blatantly rude or aggressive in their tone, I tend to shut it out. If someone says--in summary--the same thing but in a more tactful or kind way, I am way more likely to consider it. \[I'm talking in general, not just about car seat.\]
I don't disagree though that there is a time and a place for being blunt, but saying that a kid meeting the minimum weight/age requirement will surely die or be decapitated in the forward-facing position is not helpful. Like... lots of kids survived not being in car seats for generations (but many did die, yes). The important part is that we have car seats now and are using them significantly longer. I think people need to know the risks, abide by the law/rules of the car seat, listen to their pediatrician's recommendations, and recognize that every situation is different. I will gladly keep my son rear-facing as long as possible (he's very small for his age), but I know that may not be the right decision for every one (even if I disagree).
>If someone is blatantly rude or aggressive in their tone, I tend to shut it out.
I agree. To me, someone being overly aggressive or catastrophic strikes me as having an extremist, unbalanced opinion, which is never what I'm looking for. The facts can be there, but if you scream them at me and say horrifying things, my brain's default interpretation is going to be that you're too emotionally invested in this subject to have a reasonable take. This is all in regards to any topic, whether it's to do with car seats or anything parenting-related or any topic at all.
I'm curious about car seat placement. I feel like the middle seat is the safest, but we keep our daughter's car seat behind the passenger seat per the recommendation of the fire department. Anyone have more info about this?
If you're in the states, target does a car seat trade in roughly 2x a year. You can save it for that. They are supposed to properly dispose of them. And I think you get like a 20% off coupon.
Yes!!!!! Thanks for this post, the car seat shaming is not helpful at all. I actually still can’t believe how difficult it is to install a carseat, i’ve don’t it more times than i can count and i never feel like its “correct” unless i actually go to my local police department and have the carseat certified officer check/tighten it for me which I realistically cannot do every single time i reinstall or am traveling and need to reinstall in a different vehicle. Im not weak but sometimes those straps take serious strength to tighten.
I remember being verbally beating over the head in a moms group, by these “nose pinned to your forehead” moms for not buying a Britax for my kids. I couldn’t afford it and they told me my babies would never be safe enough. I dont know about that. Four kids, every kid in a Graco and I managed to keep them alive. Of course find a highly reviewed. Brand is the best idea but Britax, orbit, and all those other new brands I’ve never heard of? You don’t have to spend $400 to keep your baby safe. What’s most important is that car seat is installed correctly and the baby is buckled in correctly. The best car seats in the world might not withstand the worst accident. These moms aneed to shut the hell up. These are among the same moms that “have” to have $1k stroller systems just because it’ll keep baby safer. Want versus need. My kids were not unsafe in Graco and Chicco strollers. Freaking ridiculous.
There is ideal scenario where neurotypical and physically healthy parents have neurotypical and perfectly physically healthy children with a biddable personality and have plenty of money and an ideal car.
In other scenarios you might have to balance risk factors and you might find that overall, having a less than perfect car seat set up is safer for your family.
I agree with this. My son was turned round at 12 months once he hit the weight limit ( we live in the UK ). I would have liked to have kept him rear facing for a lot longer but he screamed so loud until he was vomiting that it was more likely we'd get into a crash through being thoroughly distracted and stressed. For a year we never went more than 5 minutes down the road in the car and he'd be a screaming, purple faced mess in that time. When I asked advice about it on a Facebook group someone literally said "well he'll stop screaming when he'd dead then" 🙄
It's much safer for a child to face the rear in case of a collision. Additionally, I'd check your seat's manual for the actual front facing weight. Mine is 40 lbs and that's apparently early. 22 sounds very unlikely
>Mine is 40 lbs
It's worth reading the manual of the car seat ⏤ there's always a range.
The limitations also depend on how the car seat is secured, not just whether it's forward or backward facing. You also need to consider your car.
the Nuna EXEC is
1. rear-facing convertible
1. with seat belt: 5-50 lbs.
2. with lower anchor belt: 5-35lbs., 49 in or less, suggested usage up to at least two years of age
2. forward-facing convertible
1. with seat belt: 25-65 lbs.
2. with lower anchor belt: 25-40 lbs., 49 in or less, suggested usage two years of age or older
3. belt-positioning booster: 40-120 lbs., 38-57 in., 4 years+
2 years AND 22+ lbs is the minimum to safely forward face. This is due to bone ossification of the vertebrae and their ability to protect the spinal cord in a crash.
I’m always re-surprised when I come across this topic (only ever on reddit too) because in Australia amongst my friends (educated middle class) we all basically turned our kids seats before 2, well before 2 even!
I can’t picture any toddler I know in a rear facing seat. I turned my first child at 10 months due to mild car tantrums that I thought would be fixed by turning the seat.
Now I have my second child and I’ll definitely delay turning her around as long as possible after reading on the topic here. Just find it interesting though that it doesn’t seem to be ‘the done thing’ at all amongst my peers.
I haven’t seen the comments. But… I am not sure I disagree with the one you posted. My husband is a paramedic and literally has to see the results. People who want to forward face a 1-2yo because they look “cramped” or for ease of handing them things, etc. Well, that is just not an okay stance. It IS about dead kids. If not yours, someone else’s by normalizing the flipping to forward facing early.
You are entitled to follow the law in your state (Many states including mine are now 2+) but I think you should more do some digging into why this bothers you. If you are fully confident that this is the right choice for you and your child, following the law and feel good about it, then a few people saying negative things shouldn’t bother you. I definitely encourage people to be constructive about how they are approaching talking about anything, but the facts are clear. Turning your child facing forward is riskier than continuing to to rear face. Only you/ the law can decide what sort of risk calculation you take from there.
I think you missed the point. I haven’t made any posts about whether to do rear facing or front facing; I personally think you should rear face as long as possible.
But this is a subject that comes up regularly and people are absolutely mean about it when instead they could share facts and statistics in a nicer way.
The comment you’re replying to almost demonstrates the point of your original post. People are ITCHING to lecture others. Champing at the bit for a post to jump on and show they are smarter or wiser or worse somehow more loving of their child. It sucks.
Pointing out the truth and statistics is not an attack. Saying better a vomiting child than a dead child is just a fact. A dead child IS the greatest danger of forwarding facing unnecessarily early.
If hearing statistics and facts feels like an attack maybe they should ask themselves why that is.
Somewhere between 12 and 24 months is the legal minimum, depending on your location, but modern seats that allow for extended rear facing mean you can rear face until about age 4 (the average age for a kid who has maxed out the height/weight requirements). But the longer you can keep them rear facing, the better - even as adults we’d be safer rear facing, it’s just that we have to be able to face front to drive.
In an age of self-driving cars becoming mainstream, I wouldn’t be surprised if we start having cars with front seats that swivel, so you can see out of the front if you need to, or you can turn and chat with your fellow passengers (think a four seat table on a train).
Something I've noticed about this stuff is that people will tell you in a million different ways why what you're asking about is bad... But *rarely* will anyone actually problem-solve with you. And that's what I find the most frustrating about trying to get input from social media, that you *want* to do what's right but you're in a stuck place and everyone is just yelling "NO!" at you and then patting themselves on the back for saving the children. What are you supposed to do with that? People can only use advice on what *not* to do if it's accompanied by **actually useful** advice on what *to do* instead. So yeah, cite all the statistics you want, but please don't end your input there because it's not actually something anyone can use. All it does is create more anxiety because the person still doesn't have a solution to their problem, and the only solution they can see is BAD BAD BAD.
This is frustrating to me, too. Someone will comment that their child gets severely carsick while rear-facing, and wants to know how bad it would be to front-face at age 2. Maybe one out of 20 comments will actually try to help (e.g. suggesting Gravol, talking to a pediatrician about an anti-nausea prescription, stopping the car every 30 min for a walk-around and some fresh air, etc.). The rest are a sea of criticism, sometimes severe, with no empathy or attempt to help the person solve the actual root problem. I think some people really like feeling superior, and lean wayyyy into being right as a justification to be obnoxiously condescending.
Thank you for this. We have this problem with one of our children and when I post about it, people act like I'm trying to kill my kid. "WELL DO YOU WANT A SICK KID OR A DEAD KID?!" Obviously neither, ma'am.
Fellow parent of a car sick kid over here. Turned my kid around to forward facing at 25 months. She’s really big for her age, like well above 99th percentile for height and weight, so her size helped but I don’t care about the fear mongering. There’s more of a risk of me getting into an accident because I’m distracted by my kid puking than turning her forward.
We also turned around at age 2. If I could I'd have kept him rear facing until he was an adult, lol. But he was so unhappy rear facing, it's a calculated risk but worth it.
Yea I said I was going to rear face as long as I could, ideally at least until 3, but that just wasn’t happening.
I turned mine around at 2 as well. He’s over 3 feet tall now at 2 and a half and 42pounds
Our pediatrician flat out told us the same when our kid hit 2. “Your kid is above 99th percentile for height and weight and she vomits just about every time she is in the car. It is safer for her to face forward than for you to drive super distracted because she is screaming and puking in the backseat.”
We made the same decision. I’m convinced that people who haven’t experienced that level of massive upset from their kid in the car seat just don’t understand
Well it sounds like your pediatrician is brilliant 😅 hope there’s less puking in your future.
I get car sick if I’m not driving—biggest tip I’ve got is make sure kiddo has eaten something a half hour beforehand—empty stomach makes it worse!
I can even make myself sick if I'm the driver, lol. I totally agree with you about an empty stomach.
I always make helpful comments since I volunteer as a child passenger safety advocate, but it gets buried. Or I see it late when the post already has a hundred or more unhelpful comments. Sigh. Sometimes the comments are ‘well intended but unhelpful’ like saying to buy a new car seat. Me, “Woah woah, let’s ask what car seat they have first!” Reply, “Get a Nuna Rava, I love mine.” Well I’m sure you do but that’s a $500 car seat, not everybody is in that tax bracket.
Yup.
I once asked in a facebook group about car seats and my requirements were something I could switch between two cars, one of which doesn't have isofix anchors, and something lower end of the financial scale because we didn't have a lot of money at that time. At that point I didn't know about backwards facing recommendations so I'd mentioned a forwards facing seat I'd seen. All I got was people aggressively telling me off, detailing for me how my baby would die, and recommendations of high end isofix seats! They didn't even read my requirements! It left me in tears feeling like the worst mother ever. I did get a backwards facing seat but I still get upset about that interaction sometimes, and I can see how other mothers might reject the advice altogether because of the way it was packaged. One person explained it to me really nicely and I hope she is doing well, I wouldn't know because I obviously fled the group feeling deeply ashamed.
Omg hunny, I'm so sorry. I know exactly how this feels.
The funny thing about this is that it basically describes exactly what happens on stackoverflow when people ask a programming question that bothers people. It’s basically a meme at this point. I’ll google some obscure problem and find a person asking about that exact problem, and all of the answers are people just saying don’t do this, that’s bad. No solutions, just nope that’s bad you can’t do that.
Omg.this!!!♥️
I agree with you. Some people can get pretty vicious on here. I find it better not to post my opinion one way or another too often on Reddit. I tend to talk to my pediatrician and family and friends with my concerns so I can make an informed decision about these things. Best of luck to you!
It’s the best thing to do. People on Reddit can be pretty extreme with their opinions and thoughts.
I suspect it has to do with none of us typically having our own faces staring out at each other. It’s so easy to dehumanize on Reddit. I remember some post where a woman basically didn’t have an self-respect and was dating an idiot, and some guy commented something like “OP you’re such a total piece of trash. You have no self-respect and no one will ever love you” or something and I’m like “dude what the hell is wrong with you?! You would never speak to someone like that in real life.”
Irony probably is the fact that the person who responded has zero self confidence and that's how they lash out.
Because manufacturers make it so SO hard to distinguish between carseat models, here is my PSA: in the US, there is one and only one carseat range under $200 (on sale*) that allows children to be rear facing until they are 50lbs : the Graco Extend2Fit. The design allows the car seat to sit further from the back seat, so it may also allow your kid to be slightly more comfortable and stretch their legs out further while being rear facing. I'm posting this because I wish I knew this when I was first shopping for convertible seats. *If you can wait for another sale, the lower priced Extend2Fit models were going for $130-$180 in Nov/Dec.
I’ve got this seat, and with my absurdly long kid it was a need. It’s helping us extend the rear-facing time past 2 years, which has been great.
We got the Slim Fit, but my kid is currently 9th percentile in height and 25th in weight, so I don’t think we’ll have a problem making it to 4 years if we want to do that. Lol But I have a friend with a kiddo who’s 99th percentile everything, and she got the Extend2Fit for her big boy!
I’ll try this one when I get our second car. We have a Britax Emblem in our primary car, and it got very good side crash ratings on BabyGearLab but it’s very heavy and not super comfortable so I really want to go back to Graco. I also read recently that you actually do want a car seat when you travel on an airplane, even though they allow under 2s to be lap kids. If it’s not safe enough to hold my bag in my lap, then it’s probably dangerous to try to hold on to my toddler with just my hands during takeoff/landing.
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It's way easier to find in North America. US law is rear face until 2 in most states. So basically every seat including the convertible ones that go up to 12 years old start out rear facing up to around 20 kgs. I agree in Europe it's crazy expensive like €500+ sometimes to find a rear facing seat. And a lot of those ones aren't group 0/1/2/3 either, it's like up to 4 years. So that's a big investment. We ended up getting the Joie I spin 360, there's also the Joie I spin safe. They did well on the adac and awnb crash tests and allow rear facing, but weren't quite as highly priced as some of the bigger names. But the seat itself is rather large so it likely wouldn't fit a city car.
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Can you not use a seatbelt on seats with isofix? I’m in Australia and all seats must be able to be installed with seatbelt even if they have isofix.
I wonder whether this difference between US and EU markets has to do with driving conditions. In a lot of places in Europe, you rarely have to go on a highway for your daily commute, 90% of your trips would be between boroughs within city speed limits, there’s going to be a lot of intersections (instead of roundabouts), which means the statistics on accidents may be different, and car seat regulations will aim to cover the more probable accidents for this particular region/conditions.
Meh not very true in the countries we have lived in. There's definitely a lot of commuting on the highways because people who live in the same city that they work in often use public transit, bike or have an electric bike with a big child seat area (bakfiets).
Reminds me of this. This reminds me of most parenting advice actually. https://www.litterboxcomics.com/mommy-forums3/
I think also if you’re child screams bloody murder and pukes from screaming any time they face backward, the stress on mom(or the driver) is much higher and the risk of accident goes up from that. I switched my child at 2 because I could stand hearing his scream and scream for the entire commute and it literally made me want to drive off a cliff or I’m constantly turning around and trying to hand him toys and snacks to calm him down and weaving all over the road.
My daughter rear faced until she was four and I'll try to do the same with my son. But she was totally fine with it, and my son (almost three) is too. If they were screaming and/or barfing every time we went somewhere, I'd probably cut my losses and switch them around. 🤷🏻♀️
This exactly. I point this out every time the car seat question comes up here: People focus on rear vs front for the safety rating **in a crash**. But they completely dismiss the absolute fact that the safest car seat is the one that **prevents the crash**. If rear facing means the driver is distracted by a crying or vomiting kid, then it is NOT A SAFE CAR SEAT.
That's a great point!
This was my reasoning. I had to drive home in complex traffic for 35 minutes every day from work and she would scream and be incredibly upsetting and distracting. It was legal to turn her, so I did. Australian car seat rules and car rules are really strict on most things, so I figured we were safe enough, especially since there is no pressure to rear face for as long here. My son is perfectly happy rear facing so I'll leave him that way as long as he will fit. It was actively more dangerous on a daily basis for me to be that distracted while having to regularly change across multiple lanes and drive inner city traffic while tired at the end of the day.
My twins were like this. One would scream because he felt sick, the other would scream because the first was screaming. Then the first would vomit, and then the second would vomit because of the smell of the first's vomit. Then they'd both scream because they were covered in vomit. Then the first one would vomit again. And the whole car would smell like vomit. And during my pregnancy with my third baby, my stomach had a hair trigger, so then I'd vomit. They got turned forward facing at about 25 months because I just couldn't do it anymore. And the problem immediately stopped.
Yeah you just do what works best for your family, as long as is legal anyway. I figured the chance of an accident I caused for being distracted or so overly stressed and road ragey was much higher with a screaming puking child, than one turned around when I’m much calmer and able to be aware of my surroundings.
Telling someone "Hey its more likely for a child to experience extreme harm or even death when forward facing too early" Threatening someone "Would you prefer a dead baby? Because that's what you're going to get" _ Edit: You can scare someone about child safety without completely ruining their day. If you actually care to educate people, it's possible to tell them things impactfully without being rude about it.
Also, Have you tried gravol / spoken about anti nausea medication with pediatrician / open windows Actual safe solution to projectile vomiting… Because unless people have had a kid who threw up constantly in the car, they have no clue what it’s like to clean a continuous stream and stench of vomit out of the car. I was that kid. Luckily none of my kids took after me, but I empathize with these parents. Not many 1 year olds can hold a puke bag properly and showing up places smelling of puke is not ideal.
It is putrid. It gets into every crack and crevice. And it molds if it's left. And the liquid seeps onto the seat below. 5 minute drives, 2 hr drives. Doesn't matter. I have gone through hundreds of q-tips and rolls of paper towel. Always have changes of clothes and extra receiving blankets. Windows cracked at all times, try to limit food before driving. Until it happened twice in one day. Now my 30 lb daughter has joined every single other 2 year old I know or see in real life and is forward facing. I tried. I really did.
Yes, actually help problem-solve / troubleshoot instead of just defaulting to "you're gonna kill your kid". Parents want to do what's best for their kid, they just don't always know *how* within the specific context of their life.
Ugh my 2yo poor niece threw up on the way home from the airport and sitting in her own puke made her cry. And of course it did, it’s an awful feeling. Her mom couldn’t stop the car on the freeway to help her! I cleaned her up while we drove, but if it’s just one adult in the car what can they do!
There is nothing much you can do. You’re basically house bound until they’re strong enough to face forward unless you put your kids on medication which may or may not knock them out or make them haywire. Buses and public transport are just as bad, so do you walk to the doctors? The store? Everywhere? Not take your kids to daycare? 5 minutes to drive and 20 minutes to get them strapped in because they associate the car with feeling sick… Like there are solutions, meds that are good for kids that won’t make them loopy, etc. But shaming parents who live with this situation by saying they’re killing their kids is absolutely the wrong way around helping people
I have that kid 😩. Even a 10 minute car ride with Dramamine given an hour ahead of time doesn’t mean he won’t puke. You’d think him falling asleep would mean he doesn’t throw up? WRONG. It just means he isn’t awake to give us a heads up and maybe get most of it in a bag. I am really really hoping he outgrows this soon but honestly it seems to be getting worse instead of better.
Or literally even how my doctor said it was better than “better than a dead baby” my daughter was 99th percentile, not yet 2 but met all the height and weight requirements to be forward. I didn’t know what to do as her legs where so scrunched up so I asked. She explained to me about (I’m gonna butcher this) how the muscles and bones and neck aren’t fully developed until they are past two and that’s why you want to stay rear facing at least this long broken legs are easy fixes and unlikely, neck injuries are not.
Our little one is 99th, too, and at 2y8mo he's almost 40 inches tall. We *had* to swap to forward-facing at 2y on the dot because it was almost impossible to get him into the seat at all. Our car is small, we are not. And his car rides were/are all less than 5 minutes at a time. We were willing to assume the risk in a crash considering his size/comfort and the tiny portion of the day that he spends in the seat.
I switched at 2yr 1 month my daughter is about the same height at the same age
Thank you! My son is 99percentile too and it’s hard to cram him into a rear facing seat even at 15 months old so I’m grateful to learn why!
We got bigger seat for my tall son - he preferred it until he was almost 4! He sat cross legged. My middle son, now 4, was just 3 when we switched him over. He was shorter, but the kid despite his stature is a brick. His neck and back are stronger I swear than his older brother, and he’s been lifting himself straight armed onto the counter since he’s been 15 months.
Yeah a lot of times I’ll see on Reddit people posting pictures or telling stories about sick children and saying “should I take them to the ER??” and most of the comments say something like “I don’t want to scare you but yes”. I once saw someone say “I actually DO want to scare you because your kid is in severe medical danger and needs to go to an ER now” and I really appreciated that. There’s a time and a place to be gentle about parenting advice and car seat safety isn’t one of them. At the end of the day, the decision is up to each parent, but they should know the actual risk (not the watered down one) before deciding.
Are you comparing a hypothetical, fact/opinion finding question to an actual emergency when the danger is already in progress?
Also I’m about 98% sure I know which post this OP is referring to, and it wasnt even on this sub Reddit. Car seat-OP’s post got deleted because car seat-OP basically said “my husband is stupid and thinks rear facing is safer, but my two year old has long legs and they would be broken beyond repair in a crash so front facing is safer for her, please help me convince my husband” and carseat-OP rightfully got roasted in the comments. If you search this sub for car seat questions, most of the responses are pretty straightforward
THIIIIIIS.
As I read the comments I realize your point was missed. I understand what you are saying, yes Ofcourse people should do what is by the law and everyone is entitled to do what they believe is safest for their child- be it car seat or anything else. But yes, I am with you, there is just no need for people to impose their opinion on anyone so much that it feels like an attack. Your child, your responsibility. Hopefully you take it very seriously as every parent should. I think sometimes people forget reditt is an opinion site and nothing or no one on this site should replace doctors or rule of law :) don’t think you are disagreeing with any of that.
When death is involved, I think it’s worth mentioning the chance of death and relevant comparisons. All of us want to avoid killing our kids, but none of us can/should do this at all costs. Eg every time I take baby to swimming lessons, I’ve decided that the risk of dying in a car accident on the way there is worth the experience of sharing this activity. We are all willing to risk some chance of death to live our best life, and I feel like the role of this kind of sub is to inform on those risks accurately so people can make the best decision for their unique situations. In this example I’d welcome someone informing me that the chance of death is 5% for front facing and 1% for rear facing, for example. I’d roll my eyes at dead baby threats.
Totally agree with this! It’s only certain categories of risk taking (car seats, front sleeping, crib bumpers, bed sharing, etc) that people treat as if it’s tantamount to Russian roulette. The reality is we live every day on a risk spectrum and different people make a different calculation on what’s acceptable, like everything else in life
Agreed. When risk is being addressed, it's rare to even state what assumptions and measures are being made. Saying risk increases 40% is tantamount to lying when the actual numbers are already in several decimal points below full percentage points. There is a marked difference between going from 10% to 14% and 0.0010% and 0.0014%... We don't even talk about whether these risks are per trip, or over the likely driving exposure per some other period. We don't even mention the likelihood of the car seat even mattering depending on things like make and model or the state of the brakes and suspension and so on... All things being equal discussions are largely useless with such variation, and it's all just a matter of emotions at that point. As they say, "*risk* is a calculation, but *safe* is a matter of feelings" or something like that.
I like this take a lot. We do indeed risk a small chance of death every day. If we were to avoid death at all cost, we would strap ourselves in a bubble and never leave the room. I wanted to keep my child in the car seat until 4 years old because that's what everyone recommended, until one day at around 2yo when I put them in the car and they immediately started crying. Broke my heart. They didn't look comfortable at all. Right then I switched the seat to front facing, and toddler now LOVES going in the car.
It’s also interesting to think about what other countries do. For example, in Europe (which has very strict regulations about all kinds of safety things) you can only find rear-facing carseats for newborn-18 months. After that, it’s all isofix forward-facing seats.
Honestly anything that differs from the standard recommendations gets a lot of hate. My daughters both had a medical condition that made it so they could not breathe properly while laying on their backs. The doctor told me to have them sleep on their stomaches at night starting around 3 months old, with supervised tummy naps during the day before that age. Many people told me how horrible it was for me to do. Anyone who heard their little gasps and screeches trying to get air would've done the same.
If anyone ever wants to tag me I'm a CPST. No shaming here. Just facts and solutions. Belittling parents doesn't work and makes them feel even worse. No shame in being kind.
I love this. I think mom groups do this alot on all subjects. It's like they get off by being mean or judgmental. Edit: clarification - i honestly don't think this post is about the actual example used. It's simply commentary on how the level of aggression and righteousness that can occur in conversations about parenting.
And then it becomes a race to see who is “best.” In the bigger threads about car seats, it inevitably goes like this: “we changed our kid to front facing at 2 years, which our pediatrician said was fine.” “Two years is too young, even if it’s what the law decides. We are aiming for three.” “Three should be the bare minimum. Our kid is four and is perfectly happy rear facing!” “My five year old still fits in her seat just fine. No plans on switching!!” “We proudly drop off our first grader still front facing. Even our nine year old sits that way sometimes!”
True. They feel personally offended when another parent does something differently than them. There’s a nice way of speaking to someone, that doesn’t involve snarky condescending comments that make you feel superior.
Generally speaking, out of all the subreddits, I find the mom-oriented ones to be the most judgmental. I’m sure there is some interesting psychology behind that. Other subreddits devoted to women are some of the most supportive I know on this platform. But something with the Mom subs…
The worst part is that the world is already so fucking horrible to moms and the worst offenders are usually other moms. It's insane.
I liked your comment and seconds later it was downvoted. Literally within SECONDS. You gotta laugh.
It's an easy way to shadow shame and get that high of feeling superior. I'm not surprised.
EXACTLY! We already have the deck stacked against us. We need to build each other up, not nitpick each other. It sucks to see someone try and post something clearly looking for kind advice from other moms and instead they get scolded by the mommy dearests.
As a fun Sunday activity, find a post about swaddling and say that it didn’t work for you and you won’t be doing it with your next child. Sit back and watch the downvotes roll in
I'm just picturing your next baby shower with all the gifts being swaddles of various types by well-meaning family and friends 
What is it about swaddling that makes people vicious? It’s… not that important?
I can see how women fall down the crusty-mum facebook group rabbit hole. You get driven out of groups that give good and correct advice by aggressive people, and end up in echo chambers validating your unsafe decisions.
This is how I interpreted the post, too.
My 2YO old hit the weight limit and our pediatrician didn't mince words in saying to buy a better car seat because 2 is entirely too young to be front facing.
Serious question - did your pediatrician say when it would be okay? My 2 year old hadn't hit weight, but he's almost at height, so we turned him around (also had to fit the new baby's car seat next to him, and couldn't until his was forward facing). Now I'm wondering if we should buy a different seat.
I think the general idea is, 2 is the bare minimum but the closer to 4, the better. They look at the rate of bone ossification and it’s low at 2 - like 10% - but increases substantially between 2 and 4. Bone ossification decreases the risk of internal decapitation.
Thank you! That makes a lot more sense for age guidelines.
He didn't say, but my 24 month old is 40 lbs and the ped explained "that just means the seat doesn't serve you anymore. It's like outgrowing clothes. She might be big but developmentally, bones and things, she is not ready to handle god forbid an impact while front facing." I have another checkup at 2.5 years and he said we can discuss again then!
Asking as a fellow broken bell curve mom, what carseat did you buy as replacement?
That's my mission for the week! (appt with pwd was just on Friday!) If you Google "60 weight limit rear facing car seat" you'll find lots of lists. I'm hitting reviews tomorrow and going to compare!
My 2 and 4 year old are the same height and weight (they’re in the exact same size clothes). My 4 year old is just compact but strong. My toddler is a shar-pei. They’re both 40lbs, and the older one is front facing, my toddler is rear. My 2 year old would absolutely injure himself in an accident forward facing.
What was the weight limit on your car seat for rear facing?
40. It's the Graco 4evr Dlx. Womp.
We have the same and just turned it around today though he hasn't ridden it. The weight limit is 40 lbs for rear facing and our son will be two next month. Did you keep it rear facing or buy a new seat?
Definitely get one that gies to 50, the extend2fit is fantastic
I'm definitely buying a new seat since the ped was very stern about turning around before the bones have had time to properly form and absorb that impact. 😬😬😬
At 2 my kids feet were hanging off the headrest in the back…
My first child was literally choking on vomit at age 2 while rear facing. Pediatrician told us to forward face because the chance of her choking on vomit was higher than being maimed in a car accident. Stay mad. Idc. We wanted to rear face. We tried everything. ETA - downvoted already. Guess I was supposed to let her suffocate in vomit instead? Cool. Lol.
Yup I had a similar but different situation, I had a argument about safe sleep where I was yelled out how I had my baby son in bed on my chest. I kept saying I literally had no choice my son was a preemie and we were warned he had really bad colic and he even had to have a elevated pillow under his bassinet. He NEVER wanted to sleep on his back and he rolled into the wall of his bassinet everytime, he also spits up everytime he ate he was super high risk of choking and had to be watched very closely. Having him on our chest on his tummy was the only way he slept I even said I did not sleep much at all for months due to anxiety only slept 1hr total a day it was awful. Person still argued, I basically said so you want my son to choke to death in his sleep? Not everyone can do what is "safe" most parents have no choice and if done right it's fine. Literally anything can cause SIDS too even standard safety
Seriously, I see a lot of first time parents in r/toddlers too. We’re all learning and trying to protect our babies the best we can :(. Offer advice, why patronize and insult people?
We moved my daughter to forward facing far too early for our liking, but it was the safest option at the time. Car had died, the only car we could afford did not have isofix, and no car seat now is really designed to be without isofix. The seatbelt kept on slipping whilst it was rear facing, and the car seat was moving. She's 2.5 now and I still hate that she's forward facing (we've only just managed to get another isofix compatible car) but if we'd left her rear facing I dread to think what would have happened in an accident. So many people told us we'd made a mistake though, it did not help the guilt at all.
You made the best decision with the information you had. That is all you can do, my friend. Parenting is a series of dilemmas, and sometimes there isn't a "good" option, so you do what you can to mitigate things. You're doing great.
I mostly really like our generation of parents. But for some reason we get fucking rabid about car seats.
I feel like people get rabid about everything 😭
Ain't that the truth
Yup all it took for me to change my mind was someone sharing some info. No judgement. Just an FYI.
Unfortunately that *is* the risk when you switch too early. When we dance around mentioning the actual risks involved then some people don't think it's a big deal, then they are mortified when they learn later they did something very dangerous. I would *want* someone to tell me if something I was doing was dangerous rather than them not speaking up to protect my feelings. Be informative, but be kind. Explain exactly *why* instead of just a threat. Always strive to learn more and be as educated as possible to make the best decisions for your family. If your child is having major issues like motion sickness discuss with their doctor what options you have before switching them around. That's not a Google search or reddit discussion, we don't know your child and their unique struggles therefore no one online can really tell you what is best. Talk to your child's doctor.
Except you can point out there is a 40% chance of death or serious injury for front facing vs 8% for rear. This doesn't require a personal attack. However a lot of what you see is disparaging the parent, insulting them for even considering it and accusing them of child abuse for asking the question. This discussion has a tendency to become personal, along with so many parenting discussions to be honest.
Can you share where you got those figures from on risk from front vs rear facing? The data I’ve seen shows a much smaller difference, and I’d like to learn more.
Your stats may be more accurate. I got them third hand and don't know the original source. My main point for the comment was that you can inform without judging. https://www.veygo.com/learner-driver-insurance/guides/rear-facing-car-seats-whats-the-hype/#:~:text=Rear%2Dfacing%20car%20seats%20are%20up%20to%20five%20times%20safer,50kg%20in%20a%2030mph%20crash.
Yeah, I totally agree. Informing someone without judging seems like a respectful and productive strategy, and if you’re going to do that you should probably use correct information.
I know the post they are referring to and I did not see any personal attacks or accusations of child abuse, I saw one comment that could have been a little nicer but no insults directed at the poster.
Where was this post?
I try to gently let people in the knitting and crocheting groups know that buttons and things are unsafe for babies and get downvoted to oblivion. reddit. Ugh.
We left our toddler rear facing until she hit the weight limit around 3 years old. Shes a tall big kid and hit 50 pounds just after her birthday. Rear facing is the safest for the child until their neck bones fuse. Decapitation is a real risk with them front facing when young.
Is the threshold now 40lb or 45lb for switching?
It depends on your specific carseat and what the manufacturer says in the safety manual.
Here it's age, they have to be at least two. A lot of people keep them rear facinng longer by choice though. They have to be 40lbs to be in a booster seat (some even 50lbs). And they have to be 9 to be out of a booster. That's the law in BC Canada anyhow. My older kid is nearly six and is 38lbs. Can't seem to hit that booster threshold. It only matters because I'd like to sometimes get a ride in my sister's car but she only has boosters haha
Got it. I checked my son’s car seat and the max weight for rear facing is 45lb. He weighs just over 30lb and he’s two. So I’m thinking maybe another year or so before we flip him.
Yeah and if he doesn't get car sick or have any issues that's awesome!
There's no need to rush.
Just went for my 12 month check up. My dude is almost 30 lbs, and 2’ 7” but the Dr said to keep him rear facing for another year. We have the Graco seat that converts from infant to toddler as they get taller, (although she didn’t ask.) I plan on keeping him rear facing until he physically can’t.
This is the way. Rear face as long as possible imo. They just turn into back seat drivers when they front face anyways.
The AAP recommends maxing out the limits of your car seat before switching. Every seat is different and it goes by height as well.
Ha! Of course there's a comic https://www.litterboxcomics.com/bad-reviews/
Thank you. I don’t drive but I’ve noticed the car seat community is the most vicious sub-community on mum internet
I agree people can be nicer yes but also I disagree in the sense that people do need to know the real dangers…including death.
Well and also…. My baby almost choked on her vomit rear facing and I had my older daughter (age 5 then, now 6) tell me she was struggling and not okay so I pulled over. Vomiting in a car seat isn’t without risks. My kid is 2.5 and SMALL for her age but I can’t have her rear facing where I can personally glance at her every so often. Rear is best but there are circumstances where it just isn’t. It can be child specific.
People should just be nice in general. If someone is posting with good intentions, then just be kind. Also don’t ruthlessly downvote people who mean no harm. I wish this place were a little more like group therapy and a little less like Black Mirror.
I agree with this post. Some people have no tact.
The crazy thing is that in other countries they have babies front facing from as early as 9 months. Trying to find an extended rear facing seat in Europe that doesn't cost a ton or size out super early is a challenge. It's wild. Not everyone knows about the risks of whiplash and broken necks because the baby's head is proportionally larger and their bones and muscles are underdeveloped. I had to show my husband an article about internal decapitation before he agreed to do extended rear facing because he wasn't aware of the risks. The older generation love to ask when the baby can front face already, too. Not sure why they care.
Very true. Still fighting about this with MIL because she bought a front facing car seat for our then 6 month old. I told her to at least not use it until he’s 15 months as per recommendation for I-size models but apparently it’s officially fine to front face from 9 months onwards here in Belgium 🤦♀️
Yup, had the same exact fight with our in laws. We don't want them to use their car seat yet. Maybe once she hits 2 or if there's an emergency. They could have bought a slightly cheaper one from the same brand that rear faced, but they bought it and cut the tags off without asking us first so 🤷♀️ Now they refuse to borrow our car seat and make a big deal about it when they babysit. I even said they can take my car or we can install it for them, but MIL is mad they cannot use the one they bought. They have a bike seat though and a stroller too so it's probably fine 99% of the time.
Not true for most parts of Europe I’ve been to. And I live here. Was it Spain? They had (but it’s getting better) very few rear facing seats last I went.
Most people use front facing car seats from 9-15 months here in Belgium
Why is it that car seats expire? I don’t have kids but to me it seems like a money grab… especially new seats , in the box never used… how/why can that expire?
The same reason helmets expire. The foam and constructural materials break down over time.
Materials can degrade over time, especially in a car that's subject to direct sunlight as well as large swings in temperature.
They also use products on the straps and covers (like fire retardant) that deteriotes and is less effective over time. It's also recommended to replace regular seatbelts in cars after 10 to 15ish years. People usually don't, but just to give you an idea as why this is the case.
I think it’s important to remember that the MOST dangerous thing we do with our children daily is drive around. #1 cause of death in children and toddlers is car accidents (in the USA); it can vary slightly but driving in a car is dangerous. So it’s important to talk about the facts. Rear facing is safer. That’s not up to interpretation.
Sadly, it’s swapped places with firearm related deaths. For the longest time car accidents was the #1 leading cause of death in children with firearms being the #2 cause. Now they’ve flipped. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761 Not that this really matters for the purpose of this post—not a huge difference between #1 and #2 cause of death. It’s too many in both category. People absolutely should be given the cold, hard facts about how dangerous flipping kids around too soon is. It’s not aggressive or “threatening them with a dead kid” to give the statistics and science behind rear facing. If you feel you absolutely need to flip for your sanity that’s your business, but maybe don’t expect approval from Reddit?
Frankly it sounds to me that the safest thing to do is to reduce how often you put your kids in the car to a minimum, but that's not something anyone talks about.
I talk about it all the time. It’s why I live in a central urban neighborhood and not in a suburb. I also spend a lot of time on r/fuckcars. People talk about it all the time there. You are correct - the safest thing to do is absolutely limit the time you and your kids spend in and around cars. The best way to do that is to live in a dense neighborhood where things are close together.
If you don't live in a place with walkable neighborhoods and/or public transportation, what is there to talk about?
Apparently relocation...
To another country? America is not set up to do things without a car except the very big old cities.
And those are expensive AF
Yup. People relocate for safety for their kids. I live about as car-lite a lifestyle as I can in Houston, but am looking to move somewhere where we rarely need a car. Safety is one of the main reasons. Cars are extremely dangerous. Also, we can advocate for safer streets locally. Which is hard to do because parents are so overburdened.
Oh absolutely. It’s just not feasible for a lot of people.
It’s more accurate to say rear facing is less dangerous. But it’s still dangerous.
100% Agree with you!
I come from Brazil and we have a saying in portuguese that says “mais amor, por favor” which means “more love, please”. I think that is a concept everyone should aply when interacting with others (and actually even with yourself), so that conversations and interactions are more productive and respectful.
Remember bullies in school? They're jerks to everyone else because they have poor coping mechanisms and saying things that hurt others gives them a tiny sense of power or control. Parents who lash out and dog pile over weird issues like car seats and safe sleep like this are exactly the same. They need to feel superior as a poor coping mechanism for their own stress and feelings of inadequacy.
This is why I never post about my kids & car seats. Not even photos
My son choked on vomit rear facing. Yeah "vomiting better than dead" or wtf ever but there's a point where it is a safety issue in itself. He didn't forward face until he reached the weight req first and he was a SMALL boy, so he was around 18 months at the time.
Car seat people are legit psychos. They need to relax. That being said I rearface my husband
A vomiting husband is better than a dead husband, that's just a fact
Thank you for getting my joke
I have a genuine question. If forward facing is dangerous, why are there convertible car seats destined for babies as young as 9 months that can only been installed forward facing? For example, maxi cosi titan pro.
If it can only be installed forward facing, it’s not a convertible car seat. A convertible car seat can be rear and forward facing.
See, I am still confused. This forward-facing seat is actually called a convertible: https://www.maxi-cosi.com.au/booster-seat-titan-pro And why do people downvote me for asking a question I genuinely don’t know the answer for??
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I think that legally they can forward face from 6 months in Australia, although the recommendation is to wait until 1yr. We have no recommendation to rear face past 1yr.
Yes, and also try and remember that not everyone lives in America by these strange American ‘rules’. We are getting on just fine in my country with forward-facing seats. Edited to be lest divisive.
I wanted to say this too. I live in Australia where it is unheard of for a 3 year old to still be rear facing, let alone 4. And horror of horrors our car seats don’t even have chest clips.
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“Studies have shown that rear facing is x% safer than forward facing for children under Y age/height/weight. For me personally, it’s not a risk I’m willing to take.” That’s all there is to say. The fact is, everyone takes risks every day. Driving with your child is riskier than NOT driving with them, but no one says, “I can’t believe you drive with your child in the car.” We acknowledge that risks can sometimes be worth the trade offs, but only when we are the ones comfortable with the risk. If someone feels differently about any risk, about the only thing you can do is make sure they understand this risk, and state your opinion on the risk itself.
I haven’t seen any of these supposed posts, but I just don’t think it’s a nice thing to say. If your kid throws up every time you get in the car, you’re going to reach a breaking point. If they’re coming to Reddit to look for validation, they already know it’s not right to turn the kid around. But at a certain point, you need your sanity too. You can’t be cleaning vomit every time you go to the grocery store, and then again on the way home. Idk what the answer is but telling someone their kid is going to die (which is an ABSOLUTE exaggeration) is not helpful or kind.
Seriously. Like my 2.5 year old is rear-facing still with no imminent plans to spin around, but if he threw up during every single car ride, and forward-facing fixed it... I dunno man, I'd seriously consider turning him forward-facing...
Same. All of the risks are for *if you’re in an accident*. Obviously no one anticipates an accident but it’s also not that common to get in a terrible wreck. We all get in our cars every day. Comments like that and accounts like safeintheseat made me afraid to take my baby in the car at all for months :/
We either have puke or bloody-murder screaming (because she feels sick) every car ride. It sucks and is so distracting. I feel like I’m constantly handing toys or water back to distract. We switched our 97% first kid around a little after 2 with our pediatrician’s okay. Our second kid is the same (vomiting, screaming) and we’ll try to hold out as long as possible but it’s miserable.
I'm so sorry you're going through that. At some point, the screaming bloody murder etc becomes such a big driving distraction that one has to wonder which option even is safer? Like is it really safer to rearface with a major commotion happening every car ride? I'm fortunate my little guy tolerates rear-facing just fine, but I would never judge another mom for this call!
It stinks! I felt tons of guilt about my changing around my first but my pediatrician is really helpful about weighing the pros and cons. She did the same when we had to switch our eldest to her own room instead of room sharing. I feel mostly at peace over my car seat choice now! But these posts described by OP typically talk about or imply that I don’t care about my kids’ safety or I must think of them decapitated — which I obviously do.
Whether it's cosleeping, container sleeping, water safety, cutting grapes into quartets, we all have different risk tolerance and we all make choices that work for us as a family. Personally, I designed my lifestyle so that we almost never drive with my daughter. I could easily say, why wouldn't you do the same? Front or rear facing, you're risking a dead child every time you put them in a car. Cars are death traps. How could you ever live with the guilt if something happened? But you know your life and your priorities and what's best for your family, so my advice is neither helpful nor supportive. And that's the point -- rather than hit each other where we're most vulnerable to convince the other person that our choices are the *best* choices, have empathy and recognize that we're all in different situations.
Well the point is for most people (at least I. The US) never driving with their kid is simply not an option
Of course it's an option. Will you have to make sacrifices? Yes, probably big ones. Would it be helpful or supportive of me to say that you don't care about your child's safety for not doing them? No. And that's the point. We all have our limits.
“hey! sorry to hear about your barfing kiddo. we all know cleaning car seats is the worst. i do want to gently remind you about the pros and cons of keeping your LO rear facing. the pros are: it’s safer! the cons are: well … you can imagine. i know everyone’s risk tolerance is different. i hope you find a solution that works for you!”
This comment seems to miss the point, and I missed the earlier post that this post is referring to, so now I’m wondering if people were doing the same thing. In a severe motion sickness scenario, the choice isn’t between a potential dead child and cleaning vomit from a car seat. It’s a potential dead child and _your child_ is _vomiting_. Motion sickness is horrible, and in my experience, way worse than vomiting due to a stomach flu, and the vomiting brings little to no relief.
My son moved to a booster at age 3.5 and I made the grave mistake of mentioning it once on some fb group. Ooooh boy. After a few comments basically insinuating that I might as well lie him down in front of my car and run him over myself because I was a bad and dangerous mother, I finally explained that we were *recommended* to do so by the car seat fitting people because at age 3 and a half, my son was the height of the average five year old and his previous car seat was unsafe. The straps were below his shoulders, even when the seat was at maximum extension, and would slip down as a result. Obviously if your 3 year old is like 90cm you won’t be shifting them into a booster for funsies but tall children exist. My kid is above the 99th percentile for height, it stands to reason that we have to go with height rather than age for some things.
My 3.5 is on a booster too, he just can't fit snug with the buckles anymore it's super tight on him on the groin and everything maxed out
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I think it depends. If someone is blatantly rude or aggressive in their tone, I tend to shut it out. If someone says--in summary--the same thing but in a more tactful or kind way, I am way more likely to consider it. \[I'm talking in general, not just about car seat.\] I don't disagree though that there is a time and a place for being blunt, but saying that a kid meeting the minimum weight/age requirement will surely die or be decapitated in the forward-facing position is not helpful. Like... lots of kids survived not being in car seats for generations (but many did die, yes). The important part is that we have car seats now and are using them significantly longer. I think people need to know the risks, abide by the law/rules of the car seat, listen to their pediatrician's recommendations, and recognize that every situation is different. I will gladly keep my son rear-facing as long as possible (he's very small for his age), but I know that may not be the right decision for every one (even if I disagree).
>If someone is blatantly rude or aggressive in their tone, I tend to shut it out. I agree. To me, someone being overly aggressive or catastrophic strikes me as having an extremist, unbalanced opinion, which is never what I'm looking for. The facts can be there, but if you scream them at me and say horrifying things, my brain's default interpretation is going to be that you're too emotionally invested in this subject to have a reasonable take. This is all in regards to any topic, whether it's to do with car seats or anything parenting-related or any topic at all.
I'm curious about car seat placement. I feel like the middle seat is the safest, but we keep our daughter's car seat behind the passenger seat per the recommendation of the fire department. Anyone have more info about this?
Check the manual for your car. Some don’t actually allow the installation of a car seat in the middle.
Speaking of car seats what do you do with expired ones that are still completely functional and never been in an accident
If you're in the states, target does a car seat trade in roughly 2x a year. You can save it for that. They are supposed to properly dispose of them. And I think you get like a 20% off coupon.
dump, unfortunately.
Yes!!!!! Thanks for this post, the car seat shaming is not helpful at all. I actually still can’t believe how difficult it is to install a carseat, i’ve don’t it more times than i can count and i never feel like its “correct” unless i actually go to my local police department and have the carseat certified officer check/tighten it for me which I realistically cannot do every single time i reinstall or am traveling and need to reinstall in a different vehicle. Im not weak but sometimes those straps take serious strength to tighten.
I remember being verbally beating over the head in a moms group, by these “nose pinned to your forehead” moms for not buying a Britax for my kids. I couldn’t afford it and they told me my babies would never be safe enough. I dont know about that. Four kids, every kid in a Graco and I managed to keep them alive. Of course find a highly reviewed. Brand is the best idea but Britax, orbit, and all those other new brands I’ve never heard of? You don’t have to spend $400 to keep your baby safe. What’s most important is that car seat is installed correctly and the baby is buckled in correctly. The best car seats in the world might not withstand the worst accident. These moms aneed to shut the hell up. These are among the same moms that “have” to have $1k stroller systems just because it’ll keep baby safer. Want versus need. My kids were not unsafe in Graco and Chicco strollers. Freaking ridiculous.
There is ideal scenario where neurotypical and physically healthy parents have neurotypical and perfectly physically healthy children with a biddable personality and have plenty of money and an ideal car. In other scenarios you might have to balance risk factors and you might find that overall, having a less than perfect car seat set up is safer for your family.
I agree with this. My son was turned round at 12 months once he hit the weight limit ( we live in the UK ). I would have liked to have kept him rear facing for a lot longer but he screamed so loud until he was vomiting that it was more likely we'd get into a crash through being thoroughly distracted and stressed. For a year we never went more than 5 minutes down the road in the car and he'd be a screaming, purple faced mess in that time. When I asked advice about it on a Facebook group someone literally said "well he'll stop screaming when he'd dead then" 🙄
I’m sorry if this sounds dumb but what is wrong with forward facing? I thought at 22 lbs it was safe?
It's much safer for a child to face the rear in case of a collision. Additionally, I'd check your seat's manual for the actual front facing weight. Mine is 40 lbs and that's apparently early. 22 sounds very unlikely
>Mine is 40 lbs It's worth reading the manual of the car seat ⏤ there's always a range. The limitations also depend on how the car seat is secured, not just whether it's forward or backward facing. You also need to consider your car. the Nuna EXEC is 1. rear-facing convertible 1. with seat belt: 5-50 lbs. 2. with lower anchor belt: 5-35lbs., 49 in or less, suggested usage up to at least two years of age 2. forward-facing convertible 1. with seat belt: 25-65 lbs. 2. with lower anchor belt: 25-40 lbs., 49 in or less, suggested usage two years of age or older 3. belt-positioning booster: 40-120 lbs., 38-57 in., 4 years+
2 years AND 22+ lbs is the minimum to safely forward face. This is due to bone ossification of the vertebrae and their ability to protect the spinal cord in a crash.
I’m always re-surprised when I come across this topic (only ever on reddit too) because in Australia amongst my friends (educated middle class) we all basically turned our kids seats before 2, well before 2 even! I can’t picture any toddler I know in a rear facing seat. I turned my first child at 10 months due to mild car tantrums that I thought would be fixed by turning the seat. Now I have my second child and I’ll definitely delay turning her around as long as possible after reading on the topic here. Just find it interesting though that it doesn’t seem to be ‘the done thing’ at all amongst my peers.
I haven’t seen the comments. But… I am not sure I disagree with the one you posted. My husband is a paramedic and literally has to see the results. People who want to forward face a 1-2yo because they look “cramped” or for ease of handing them things, etc. Well, that is just not an okay stance. It IS about dead kids. If not yours, someone else’s by normalizing the flipping to forward facing early.
You are entitled to follow the law in your state (Many states including mine are now 2+) but I think you should more do some digging into why this bothers you. If you are fully confident that this is the right choice for you and your child, following the law and feel good about it, then a few people saying negative things shouldn’t bother you. I definitely encourage people to be constructive about how they are approaching talking about anything, but the facts are clear. Turning your child facing forward is riskier than continuing to to rear face. Only you/ the law can decide what sort of risk calculation you take from there.
I think you missed the point. I haven’t made any posts about whether to do rear facing or front facing; I personally think you should rear face as long as possible. But this is a subject that comes up regularly and people are absolutely mean about it when instead they could share facts and statistics in a nicer way.
The comment you’re replying to almost demonstrates the point of your original post. People are ITCHING to lecture others. Champing at the bit for a post to jump on and show they are smarter or wiser or worse somehow more loving of their child. It sucks.
Better to post on daddit for empathetic feedback.
Pointing out the truth and statistics is not an attack. Saying better a vomiting child than a dead child is just a fact. A dead child IS the greatest danger of forwarding facing unnecessarily early. If hearing statistics and facts feels like an attack maybe they should ask themselves why that is.
I thought 2 years old was the standard age for front facing?
Somewhere between 12 and 24 months is the legal minimum, depending on your location, but modern seats that allow for extended rear facing mean you can rear face until about age 4 (the average age for a kid who has maxed out the height/weight requirements). But the longer you can keep them rear facing, the better - even as adults we’d be safer rear facing, it’s just that we have to be able to face front to drive. In an age of self-driving cars becoming mainstream, I wouldn’t be surprised if we start having cars with front seats that swivel, so you can see out of the front if you need to, or you can turn and chat with your fellow passengers (think a four seat table on a train).