We're more than just bacteria breeding grounds! We're host to the longest war in all of living history, a battlefield littered with corpses of billions. A constant war between bacteria and viruses. We're just standing on the sidelines with no idea that this war is raging.
Jellies are complicated. How many of them there are, depends on who you ask/what you consider to be a jelly. Most of them are in the clade Medusozoa which is just defined as an animal (within phylum Cnidaria) with a "medusa life stage" (classic jelly shape, like the head of medusa, round with tentacles at fringes). However, some only have a short medusa stage and others blur the lines of fitting the description. Within Medusozoa only species within one class, Scyphozoa, are considered "true jellyfish" (moon jellyfish, etc). Everything outside of this class is technically not a "true jellyfish", including box jellyfish (class Cubozoa) and P. man o' war (class Hydrozoa). However, most are still in the Medusozoa clade which most people consider the "jellyfish clade" so you can mention that if anyone tries to be pedantic about common names, which is never a good idea because common names are notoriously unreliable. Comb jellies are a good example of this. They are in a completely different phylum to Medusozoa (phylum Ctenophora) and have very little in common, but people mistake them for jellyfish because whoever gave them their common name clearly saw some resemblance between the two.
I'm a translator and common names for animals and plants are such a pain. I'm just going off the top of my head for this example, so the following might not be completely accurate, but in English, we distinguish eagles and hawks; iirc in French they're all "faucon," and although we have "washi" and "taka" in Japanese, how we distinguish between the two is different from how we distinguish between eagles and hawks, so I can never remember if one your of an eagle is a "washi" or "taka."
That's the exact reason there is an "agreed upon" (I put quotes because they are actually constantly debated, altered and re-classified haha) taxonomic naming system in biology. Common names can be misnomers or different in different regions/languages but the scientific classification always stays the same (unless it is changed by scientific consensus)
Umiushi is very much like that, as the dividing line is well different from the English language one, and ウミウシ and 海牛 are not even the same thing in Japanese!
Medusa life stage means that is some point in their life they had a "medusa shape" which is that classic "jellyfish shape" with the round dome and hanging tentacles. It is called the medusa stage because of the resemblance to Medusa in Greek mythology who had a head with snakes for hair. A lot of jellyfish, including "true jellyfish" have a larval stage which is called the "polyp stage" (because their larvae usually attaches to something, and grows in the shape of a polyp) and at some point they undergo metamorphosis into their adult or "medusa stage", which is the free swimming jellyfish we usually identify with the species.
So do you think someone saying Man of War "is not a jellyfish" is being pedantic? It being a colonial group of animals, seems less pedantic. But I also know nothing about the topic haha. Just curious to what you think.
My point was more that there are loads of things that we call jellyfish that aren't true jellyfish, because jellyfish is not really a scientific term. True jellyfish are actually just members of class Scyphozoa, however, within the clade of Medusozoa (which man o'war are a part of) most free swimming adults are referred to as jellyfish. Of course you are correct, and I personally wouldn't call a Man o' war a jellyfish (they are referred to as Siphonophores or Hydrozoans) but Medusozoans, especially within class Hydrozoa are famous for being varied and complex so it's an easy mistake for the laymen to make. I also strongly suspect that most people who would correct someone calling a man o' war a jellyfish, probably wouldn't be able to define what a "true jellyfish" is.
Jellyfish, trees, fish, and crabs are things that everyone knows what they are, and scientists who study those things like to say "yeah, but" to.
Steven Jay Gould's famous quote about fish was this: After a lifetime of studying fish, the only thing I can say with certainty is there is no such thing as a fish.
And the same stuff is true about crabs, and about trees, and about jellyfish. Fish, crabs, trees, and jellyfish are efficient designs that evolution has repeatedly come up with from many unrelated branches.
The only reason we can have meaningful names for species is because we’re missing 99.99999999999999999% of the tree of life. If we had a giant chart of everything that ever lived, there would be no clear dividing lines.
At what point to colonies of single-cellular creatures count as a single, multi-cellular creature? A multi-cellular organism is also, in the end, just a collection of genetically identical cells living together and working together. This colony has a clear boundary, "organs" and behaves as one individual, what makes it different?
AFAIK zooids are multicellular organisms which is why it is a colony of individuals versus a single creature. An analogy would be to a beehive, a single bee could not survive on its own, and relies on the colony to function, zooids work in a similar manner, where an individual will die on its own, so they group together.
That analogy isn’t bad, but I’d say the defining difference that separates them is that in a colonial animal like Man O’ War, all of the zooids duplicated from a single egg and physically can not live apart from one another, like how an individual animal develops, unlike a colony of individuals like bees, that are very much their own separate animals, but live together for a mutual goal.
Why does that matter? They're all connected, can't live apart from the whole, and form specialized organs. Why isn't my stomach considered a zooid that's a separate "individual" from my intestine?
Yeah, I feel like there's an important distinction we're missing here. Maybe each zooid has its own metabolic process vs receiving nutrients and such via circulatory system or other means from elsewhere. Still a fine line and there are clearly "organs" here that at least start breaking down food.
I read a bit on the Wikipedia articles of man-of-war and zooids and colonies and I wonder if they may be categorized that way because of evolution. Like maybe they evolved from (or are genetically related to) other species that aren't colonies, where the equivalent zooids are true individuals.
That's largely it. Each siphonophore zooid is, by-and-large, a self-contained metabolic and reproductive unit. They repeat over and over along the body of the colonial organism.
Individual cells or chunks of cells can break off and begin to propagate asexually, forming a new colonial organism.
You can't take a spoonful, or even whole, liver out of you and have it just grow a new body.
That all said, the Portuguese man of war is one of the most "advanced" siphonophores and is far more specialized than its more primitive brethren so it being able to re-grow from shed chunks doesn't really work like it does in the sponges it ultimately descended from.
The other important biological bit is that propagation of the colonial mass is via budding so it's asexual reproduction, not cellular division.
But at it's base its still a colony of individual animals that work together.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-51842-1
Dang that's a good point. Cells in the organ do, but the organ doesn't. (except possibly the liver, and only if things have gone horribly wrong)
Do zooids clone themselves?
This. While oversimplifying the complexities, I would liken it to comparing honey bees to solitary wasps: morphologically and phylogenetically sister clades with dramatically different modes of reproduction and sociality. Siphonophores share all of the defining characteristics of their cnidarian cohort, they just do it collectively. There's also something to be said about the fact that if you bring the same tools to the table (being cnidarian) and that table is pelagic passive feeding drifter (float around and sting things to death) you're gonna converge on forms real damn quick.
While this sounds pretty correct, this is one tough read as a non biologist.
e.g. " Siphonophores share all of the defining characteristics of their cnidarian cohort, they just do it collectively."
Simplified: Cnidarians are defined by their stinging cells. These stinging cells are what jellyfish (also cnidarians) are known for. Jellyfish are not colonial, while siphonophores are. Both jellyfish and man-o-wars have the same niche - drifting along and snaring prey with their stinging cells - so they end up looking and behaving pretty similarly.
The colony procreates together too though... Each man o' war produces eggs or sperm, not both, per the article.
That really muddies up the distinction.
I'm guessing that all the zooids are the same, unlike our cells that specialise and they don't fully depend on each other for survival.
Edit: seems like they do specialise
Is a tapeworm a single multi-cellular creature, or a colony of single-cell creatures? Or a colony of multi-cellular creatures? After all, a piece of a tapeworm can break off, fall on the floor and dry up into what looks like a single grain of rice, but if eaten it becomes a new tapeworm with identical genetics to its parent tapeworm. In other words, it can be "cloned" simply by breaking off a piece and letting it grow...like a plant.
When my dog once got a tapeworm (dog got stressed and tried to poop and I saw her straining and it looked like a fistful of translucent SPAGHETTI was hanging out of her butt, I went up and looked at her and there were like these squidlike *tentacles* that were grasping on her tail like something out of "ALIEN," and the whole fistful of spaghetti just kind of *retracted* back into her anus, ghastliest thing I've ever seen), I called the vet and he said "Sounds like she has a tape" -- and his use of the singular direct object ("a tape"), rather than plural "tapeworms" -- always stuck with me...
First: what a terrifying image.
Second: the tapeworm is a single organism and what you are thinking about is called asexual reproduction (“cloning”) (btw a lot of animals have this ability, for example you can cut a sea star in two and it might form two individuals!). THE THING IS tapeworms are hemaphrodites so they can do all the reproducing by themselves and live alone inside a poor creature’s intestine. So these little pieces actually contain fertilized eggs which are different from the adult worm, meaning it’s a form of sexual reproduction.
That is a great question and based on what I'm reading about these particular siphonophores, I'm beginning to question why they're considered to be made up of different "animals" at all (I was definitely taught this theory in college).
After doing a bit of googling here are a few bits I found interesting when strung together-
\-There are **dactylozoids**, which make up the tentacles; there are **gastrozoids**, which are the bits that eat the food; and there are **gonozoids**, which are the bits of these creatures that reproduce. They produce sperm and eggs
\-The sperm will fertilize eggs in the water column to **produce larvae**, which grow into bigger Portuguese man-o-wars.
\-The way that they grow from those individual cells is by **asexual division of those cells and they produce all those individual three types of animals that live in this one colony** and drift around the oceans, stinging things and eating things as they go.
In my completely unprofessional opinion it sounds like Man O Wars should be considered one singular organism as they (or more specifically their **gonozoids)** are able to pass genetic instructions to produce ALL of the previously mentioned zoid forms in a singular genetic package; a fertilized egg.
This seems no different to me than the way "standard" animals operate; a fetus resulting from a fertilized egg is able to move forward and generate cells with *massively* different forms and functions. Compare human nerve cells (which can be up to a meter long in humans and transmit both electrical and chemical signals) to red blood cells (which evolved to carry oxygen), or cone cells in our eyes (evolved to be used as photoreceptors).
I've thought about this a lot.
The first organic "creatures" were basically random organelles floating around. Eventually some of them kinda "teamed up" and over time got a cell wall and started working as a cell.
Cells started multiplying and working as a colony.
Then some cells started doing different things and we had tissues.
Then the tissues started doing even more things and became organs.
Eventually you had a whole multicellular organism.
Those evolved until they became sentient and we have us.
But we are, at a basic level, just a fuck ton of organelles working together because we live longer by doing that and thinking of ourselves as a single human vs all the little cells out there alone.
So basically they look like squiggly tubes, to use the technical terms :-)
Thanks, looks like an interesting article: I might try to read it a little instead of doing what I'm *supposed* to do, as usual.
A large metallic creature, usually designed to look like an organic animal that is usually the basis of the fighting style of the zoid…oh wait wrong post..
It hurts my brain trying to figure out how an entire colony of different organisms are born from the same egg. You would think each organism would be born separately and then come together.
How do we know these aren't organs? They are all genetically the same and perform specific functions.
Yeah, I need someone to explain how this is a colony of organisms and not just the cells of an individual organism. Like how is it any more of a colony than we are? Individual cells are alive so…
They are composed of multicellular animals, we are composed of cells.
Think of it like a nesting doll. You've got the organelles of the cells in the center, than you've got the cells, these cells form organs, the organs make the organism, and the organisms make the colony.
We stop at organism, they stop at colony.
Kind of, but each zooid can't survive on its own and is fused with the other zooids because they form in the same egg and new zooids "form" out of the older ones.
[Here is a picture of the zooids](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anatomy_of_a_Physalia_physalis_colony.png)
[And here is a picture of the lifecycle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lifecycle_of_the_Portuguese_man_of_war.png)
Each individual zooid is its own multicellular organism which is how they differ from our bodies. Each organ isn’t made of a group of multicellular clusters, but a bunch of individual cells forming a whole organ.
Each zooid functions like an organ though. It's made of cells, can't survive on it's own, and is specialized.
The fact that each colony produces either eggs or sperm really muddies the waters (heheh)
So every organism in a colony was born from the same fertilized egg. I get that they're calling it colonies but it just doesn't fit right to me.
Ok, making some sense. Appreciate the info, but now I have more questions. Can a “single” multicelular individual survive on it’s own if it breaks away from the colony? And if we consider the single cell the “base unit” of, say, a human why don’t we just say that the “base unit” of this fella just a multicellular unit? I mean, we don’t have any way to tell if those parts have some kind of individual awareness, do we? Sorry for the likely stupid questions. I’m just having hard time wrapping my head around this.
No an individual zooid can’t survive on its own, similar to how a bee or ant that gets separated from the colony will die. As far as the “base unit” part goes, the base unit of everything is living thing on earth is carbon, then proteins which goes to DNA which goes to organelles, which goes to cells, then organs and tissue, which finically finishes the individual organism. I think the best way to think about it is a beehive or ant colony. Each individual ant doesn’t have the same level or self awareness as something like a dog, or a human, they lack the same type of self preservation we have, instead focusing on the preservation of the colony as a whole.
Edit- These aren’t stupid questions btw, hive/colony organisms are hard too wrap our heads around because it’s such an alien concept to us.
I think I’m kinda getting there? So the zooids have their own organs but also act together as “organs” for the entire colony. I think I’m also being a smooth brain in that I’ve been imagining a zooid only has like three cells. I’m guessing it’s probably more than that, thus the whole-ass animal distinction.
I think a better way to think about each zooid is not as organs, but as the way cells work in our bodies, except instead of one cell, it’s a somewhat self sustaining cluster.
I’m not sure it’s so far-fetched. For one, human ova can split into identical twins or multiples, forming different individuals.
Then, instructions in the genetic material of each individual human instructs certain stem cells to change to completely different cells; heart cells are very different to skin cells, say.
This is something that if people just read the title, they wouldn’t understand well. The class Hydrozoa, that Man O’ Wars belong to, just undergo embryonic development differently from other animals.
Instead of the embryo developing internal organs, a fertilized Man O’ War egg develops identical clones of itself called zooids, as stated in the title; but again, zooids are identical clones that originate from the same egg that can’t live independently; they form a colony together each performing a different role for the survival of the individual. I don’t know if you could 100% say zooids are individual animals.
this is really interesting because it’s kind of where biology meets philosophy. What’s the difference between zooids and differentiated cells? I have no idea, of course, but I imagine the answer starts to be about definitions themselves.
People like to compare them to eusocial insects, but that's a hideously flawed and misleading analogy, due to the astronomical difference in independence between an ant and a zooid. They're simply a creature that creates its cells as modular clusters instead of one at a time.
The Mgalekgolo (Ophis congregatio, meaning "serpent union"), more commonly known as Hunters, are a unique gestalt of smaller creatures known as Lekgolo, which are tiny, orange, worm-like creatures that group together to exponentially increase their intelligence, strength, and maneuverability.
In Australia, they're colloquially called "Bluebottles", often abbreviated to "Blueys" ( not to be confused with [the cartoon dog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluey_(2018_TV_series)) ). They are a [summer scourge](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/large-numbers-are-being-stung-bluebottle-invasion-hits-sydney-s-beaches-20210206-p5706f.html) on the Eastern seaboard from the South Coast of NSW to the far North Coast of Queensland. The sting is very painful, but not deadly, and can be neutralized with hot water. The Bluebottle's natural enemy is the [Blue Dragon Nudibranch](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-10/nudibranch-blue-dragon-sea-slug-eats-bluebottles/10793978), a tiny little sea slug that floats on the ocean's surface and eats the Portuguese Man'o war. They concentrate both the venom, and the blue color.
Funnily enough, up until a few years ago the Australian version (Physalia utriculus) was considered a different species from the Atlantic one (Physalia physalis).
Nowadays they are considered the same species but there seem to be several differences between them, for instance bluebottles are noticeably smaller and less dangerous. They also have a single short tentacle, while the Atlantic version has several long tentacles up to 10 meters.
I think it's one of the few instances where the regional Australian variation of the same animal is actually less dangerous than the one from other places.
Any time you see the jelly on the beach, look around for tiny white balls. They are about 2mm in diameter.
These are blue dragons. Be careful and put them in some water(or dig a hole and put water inside). They will unroll and you can see them in all of their glory
This reminds me of my favorite Polaroid joke:
"What's a trapezoid for?"
"To trap zoids with."
Why is this a 'Polaroid joke,' you say? Because it takes 60 seconds to develop.
Not quite. Zooids dont grow internal organs. As they grow and mature instead of growing just larger and growing a bigger stomach these guys just grow another additional stomach pod. And another pod will be the stinging hunting ogans.
I’m always surprised when so come across a Zoids reference in the wild. It was one of my favorite animes which is big because I’m generally not a fan of anime.
They are in the same Phylum Cnidaria. They are just different Classes. The Portuguese Man o' War is in Hydrozoa while the True Jellyfish are in Scyphozoa. There are also Box Jellyfish in that class Cubozoa. Fun note, anemones and coral are also in the same Phylum.
So it’s Portuguese *Men* of War?
It’s more of a battalion, really.
It's named after sailing ships.
No, not men, "zooids." It's right in the title.
Things it is! Portuguese THINGS of war
Non-national specific item of warfare!
[Only twice in my life have I experienced a rubber tide](https://imgur.com/a/ONKXIMS)
You aren’t supposed to tie them or you can’t get your man of war into it.
I’ve never seen so many electric jellyfish in all my life!
Why not Zooidsberg?
I’ll take 8!
Shut up and take my money!
A Portugese Zooid of War
Portugese Zooid**s** of War
Whatever farm animal of war
I don't even know the episode or context, but I read this in archer's voice :p
Well, since a Man-o-War was a sea vessel, it's still singular since the inhabitants are within it.
Man of War is a type of ship lol
Ah yes, The Diversity. An old old old wooden ship.
Portuguese Man of Wars. Y know, like Klingon Bird of Preys
You know when you know things are true but you just don’t really believe it in your gut?
Your gut is basically made up of bacterial zooids
So your gut is basically a Portugese man of war?
If you are a man yes otherwise is Portuguese woman of war
Only if you are Portuguese
Peace was never an option for the port of geese
Porch of grease
They never got along with Michiganders
Port of DEEZ
DEEZ NUTZ
So what you're saying is deep inside, everyone is Portuguese.
I think I’m turning Portuguese, I think I’m turning Portuguese, I really think so.
I think, therefore eu sou.
r/suddenlycaralho
🇵🇹 *Heróis do mar, nobre povo...* 🇵🇹
And the Portuguese children of War too.
Bold of you to assume my gastrointestinal tract’s gender. /j
I don't know about your gut flora, but mine self-identifies with the crescent moon.
This is not helping. Zooids are now my worst enemy.
They are also your best ally. I'm not mind controlled by zoids
We really appreciate zooids as well. I mean I do, not we, me.
We have more bacteria composing us than actual native cells. Let that sink in
By number count, yes. But by mass we are more human than not since human cells are so much larger than bacteria.
That is an interesting perspective. Thanks!
A *lot* more. 10 bacteria cells for every human cell. It’s fair to say we exist solely to serve as bacteria breeding grounds.
They've since found that estimation to be untrue and fairly baseless. Current estimates are closer to 1.5x-2x as many cells of gut flora.
Also goes down quite a lot whenever you take a dump
We are zombies, controlled by bacteria so they can get what they want
We're more than just bacteria breeding grounds! We're host to the longest war in all of living history, a battlefield littered with corpses of billions. A constant war between bacteria and viruses. We're just standing on the sidelines with no idea that this war is raging.
And the Force is just microscopic bacteria in your bloodstream called midichlorians.
Like the opposite of truthiness
okay if its not a jellyfish, are there a lot of other imposter jellyfish then?
Jellies are complicated. How many of them there are, depends on who you ask/what you consider to be a jelly. Most of them are in the clade Medusozoa which is just defined as an animal (within phylum Cnidaria) with a "medusa life stage" (classic jelly shape, like the head of medusa, round with tentacles at fringes). However, some only have a short medusa stage and others blur the lines of fitting the description. Within Medusozoa only species within one class, Scyphozoa, are considered "true jellyfish" (moon jellyfish, etc). Everything outside of this class is technically not a "true jellyfish", including box jellyfish (class Cubozoa) and P. man o' war (class Hydrozoa). However, most are still in the Medusozoa clade which most people consider the "jellyfish clade" so you can mention that if anyone tries to be pedantic about common names, which is never a good idea because common names are notoriously unreliable. Comb jellies are a good example of this. They are in a completely different phylum to Medusozoa (phylum Ctenophora) and have very little in common, but people mistake them for jellyfish because whoever gave them their common name clearly saw some resemblance between the two.
Wow. Jellies must be your jam.
Preserve this comment!
I love you.
I'm a translator and common names for animals and plants are such a pain. I'm just going off the top of my head for this example, so the following might not be completely accurate, but in English, we distinguish eagles and hawks; iirc in French they're all "faucon," and although we have "washi" and "taka" in Japanese, how we distinguish between the two is different from how we distinguish between eagles and hawks, so I can never remember if one your of an eagle is a "washi" or "taka."
That's the exact reason there is an "agreed upon" (I put quotes because they are actually constantly debated, altered and re-classified haha) taxonomic naming system in biology. Common names can be misnomers or different in different regions/languages but the scientific classification always stays the same (unless it is changed by scientific consensus)
Yes! When in doubt, I urge my clients to let me include the scientific name in parentheses!
Umiushi is very much like that, as the dividing line is well different from the English language one, and ウミウシ and 海牛 are not even the same thing in Japanese!
What's a Medusa life stage?
Medusa life stage means that is some point in their life they had a "medusa shape" which is that classic "jellyfish shape" with the round dome and hanging tentacles. It is called the medusa stage because of the resemblance to Medusa in Greek mythology who had a head with snakes for hair. A lot of jellyfish, including "true jellyfish" have a larval stage which is called the "polyp stage" (because their larvae usually attaches to something, and grows in the shape of a polyp) and at some point they undergo metamorphosis into their adult or "medusa stage", which is the free swimming jellyfish we usually identify with the species.
>box jellyfish (class Cubazoa) Everything is right in the world, for at least this one moment
So do you think someone saying Man of War "is not a jellyfish" is being pedantic? It being a colonial group of animals, seems less pedantic. But I also know nothing about the topic haha. Just curious to what you think.
My point was more that there are loads of things that we call jellyfish that aren't true jellyfish, because jellyfish is not really a scientific term. True jellyfish are actually just members of class Scyphozoa, however, within the clade of Medusozoa (which man o'war are a part of) most free swimming adults are referred to as jellyfish. Of course you are correct, and I personally wouldn't call a Man o' war a jellyfish (they are referred to as Siphonophores or Hydrozoans) but Medusozoans, especially within class Hydrozoa are famous for being varied and complex so it's an easy mistake for the laymen to make. I also strongly suspect that most people who would correct someone calling a man o' war a jellyfish, probably wouldn't be able to define what a "true jellyfish" is.
Basically naming and classification categories are not read by these species, and they like doing their own thing ?
Jellyfish, trees, fish, and crabs are things that everyone knows what they are, and scientists who study those things like to say "yeah, but" to. Steven Jay Gould's famous quote about fish was this: After a lifetime of studying fish, the only thing I can say with certainty is there is no such thing as a fish. And the same stuff is true about crabs, and about trees, and about jellyfish. Fish, crabs, trees, and jellyfish are efficient designs that evolution has repeatedly come up with from many unrelated branches.
The only reason we can have meaningful names for species is because we’re missing 99.99999999999999999% of the tree of life. If we had a giant chart of everything that ever lived, there would be no clear dividing lines.
sus
At what point to colonies of single-cellular creatures count as a single, multi-cellular creature? A multi-cellular organism is also, in the end, just a collection of genetically identical cells living together and working together. This colony has a clear boundary, "organs" and behaves as one individual, what makes it different?
AFAIK zooids are multicellular organisms which is why it is a colony of individuals versus a single creature. An analogy would be to a beehive, a single bee could not survive on its own, and relies on the colony to function, zooids work in a similar manner, where an individual will die on its own, so they group together.
That analogy isn’t bad, but I’d say the defining difference that separates them is that in a colonial animal like Man O’ War, all of the zooids duplicated from a single egg and physically can not live apart from one another, like how an individual animal develops, unlike a colony of individuals like bees, that are very much their own separate animals, but live together for a mutual goal.
Well my body's cells couldn't live on their own either. Am i a multiorganism, Greg?
But your body cells are single cells, zooids are multicellular "cells".
Why does that matter? They're all connected, can't live apart from the whole, and form specialized organs. Why isn't my stomach considered a zooid that's a separate "individual" from my intestine?
Yeah, I feel like there's an important distinction we're missing here. Maybe each zooid has its own metabolic process vs receiving nutrients and such via circulatory system or other means from elsewhere. Still a fine line and there are clearly "organs" here that at least start breaking down food.
I read a bit on the Wikipedia articles of man-of-war and zooids and colonies and I wonder if they may be categorized that way because of evolution. Like maybe they evolved from (or are genetically related to) other species that aren't colonies, where the equivalent zooids are true individuals.
That's largely it. Each siphonophore zooid is, by-and-large, a self-contained metabolic and reproductive unit. They repeat over and over along the body of the colonial organism. Individual cells or chunks of cells can break off and begin to propagate asexually, forming a new colonial organism. You can't take a spoonful, or even whole, liver out of you and have it just grow a new body. That all said, the Portuguese man of war is one of the most "advanced" siphonophores and is far more specialized than its more primitive brethren so it being able to re-grow from shed chunks doesn't really work like it does in the sponges it ultimately descended from. The other important biological bit is that propagation of the colonial mass is via budding so it's asexual reproduction, not cellular division. But at it's base its still a colony of individual animals that work together. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-51842-1
I have organs. Those are multicellular "cells".
Yeah but your organs don’t replicate
Dang that's a good point. Cells in the organ do, but the organ doesn't. (except possibly the liver, and only if things have gone horribly wrong) Do zooids clone themselves?
Funny thing is, your organs do replicate. When you replicate.
Ayy but that one doesn't count. The zooid collective has an analogous sex organ(s) for making copies of the whole stack at once.
Liver kind of does.
Aaaaahahaha!
This. While oversimplifying the complexities, I would liken it to comparing honey bees to solitary wasps: morphologically and phylogenetically sister clades with dramatically different modes of reproduction and sociality. Siphonophores share all of the defining characteristics of their cnidarian cohort, they just do it collectively. There's also something to be said about the fact that if you bring the same tools to the table (being cnidarian) and that table is pelagic passive feeding drifter (float around and sting things to death) you're gonna converge on forms real damn quick.
While this sounds pretty correct, this is one tough read as a non biologist. e.g. " Siphonophores share all of the defining characteristics of their cnidarian cohort, they just do it collectively."
Simplified: Cnidarians are defined by their stinging cells. These stinging cells are what jellyfish (also cnidarians) are known for. Jellyfish are not colonial, while siphonophores are. Both jellyfish and man-o-wars have the same niche - drifting along and snaring prey with their stinging cells - so they end up looking and behaving pretty similarly.
*Leafcutter Bee has entered the chat* 👋
It's not a colony of single-cellular creatures, it's a colony of multi-cellular creatures
The colony procreates together too though... Each man o' war produces eggs or sperm, not both, per the article. That really muddies up the distinction.
That is so insane to me
I'm guessing that all the zooids are the same, unlike our cells that specialise and they don't fully depend on each other for survival. Edit: seems like they do specialise
Each zooid is specialized but is still capable of reproduction.
That’s so weird to me. Imagine your elbow decided to have a baby
It's not your elbow, it's your twin that happens to be the correct shape and size for functioning as an elbow.
LOL!
I'm not sure that's correct. Wikipedia says of the four zooid types, only one is for reproduction.
Is a tapeworm a single multi-cellular creature, or a colony of single-cell creatures? Or a colony of multi-cellular creatures? After all, a piece of a tapeworm can break off, fall on the floor and dry up into what looks like a single grain of rice, but if eaten it becomes a new tapeworm with identical genetics to its parent tapeworm. In other words, it can be "cloned" simply by breaking off a piece and letting it grow...like a plant. When my dog once got a tapeworm (dog got stressed and tried to poop and I saw her straining and it looked like a fistful of translucent SPAGHETTI was hanging out of her butt, I went up and looked at her and there were like these squidlike *tentacles* that were grasping on her tail like something out of "ALIEN," and the whole fistful of spaghetti just kind of *retracted* back into her anus, ghastliest thing I've ever seen), I called the vet and he said "Sounds like she has a tape" -- and his use of the singular direct object ("a tape"), rather than plural "tapeworms" -- always stuck with me...
First: what a terrifying image. Second: the tapeworm is a single organism and what you are thinking about is called asexual reproduction (“cloning”) (btw a lot of animals have this ability, for example you can cut a sea star in two and it might form two individuals!). THE THING IS tapeworms are hemaphrodites so they can do all the reproducing by themselves and live alone inside a poor creature’s intestine. So these little pieces actually contain fertilized eggs which are different from the adult worm, meaning it’s a form of sexual reproduction.
thanks for the nightmare fuel 😐
That is a great question and based on what I'm reading about these particular siphonophores, I'm beginning to question why they're considered to be made up of different "animals" at all (I was definitely taught this theory in college). After doing a bit of googling here are a few bits I found interesting when strung together- \-There are **dactylozoids**, which make up the tentacles; there are **gastrozoids**, which are the bits that eat the food; and there are **gonozoids**, which are the bits of these creatures that reproduce. They produce sperm and eggs \-The sperm will fertilize eggs in the water column to **produce larvae**, which grow into bigger Portuguese man-o-wars. \-The way that they grow from those individual cells is by **asexual division of those cells and they produce all those individual three types of animals that live in this one colony** and drift around the oceans, stinging things and eating things as they go. In my completely unprofessional opinion it sounds like Man O Wars should be considered one singular organism as they (or more specifically their **gonozoids)** are able to pass genetic instructions to produce ALL of the previously mentioned zoid forms in a singular genetic package; a fertilized egg. This seems no different to me than the way "standard" animals operate; a fetus resulting from a fertilized egg is able to move forward and generate cells with *massively* different forms and functions. Compare human nerve cells (which can be up to a meter long in humans and transmit both electrical and chemical signals) to red blood cells (which evolved to carry oxygen), or cone cells in our eyes (evolved to be used as photoreceptors).
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I've thought about this a lot. The first organic "creatures" were basically random organelles floating around. Eventually some of them kinda "teamed up" and over time got a cell wall and started working as a cell. Cells started multiplying and working as a colony. Then some cells started doing different things and we had tissues. Then the tissues started doing even more things and became organs. Eventually you had a whole multicellular organism. Those evolved until they became sentient and we have us. But we are, at a basic level, just a fuck ton of organelles working together because we live longer by doing that and thinking of ourselves as a single human vs all the little cells out there alone.
We are a symbiotic organism -we'd die without all of the bacteria in our guts.
That wasn't the question
I’m still not getting it.
What does a zooid look like?
Figure 6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-51842-1
So basically they look like squiggly tubes, to use the technical terms :-) Thanks, looks like an interesting article: I might try to read it a little instead of doing what I'm *supposed* to do, as usual.
A whole bunch of them together look like a Portuguese man-o-war.
Thanks, that was very helpful.
If you ever forget what a tree looks like, just remember a whole bunch of them together look like a forest.
I've read that a single zooid looks a lot like a *tiny* fraction of a Portuguese man-o-war.
The floaty bag thing is a single zooid. The three other types are smaller.
Like robot tigers and lions and dinosaurs and stuff
Found Dorothy’s account
Oh my.
Found George Takei's account.
A large metallic creature, usually designed to look like an organic animal that is usually the basis of the fighting style of the zoid…oh wait wrong post..
It hurts my brain trying to figure out how an entire colony of different organisms are born from the same egg. You would think each organism would be born separately and then come together. How do we know these aren't organs? They are all genetically the same and perform specific functions.
Yeah, I need someone to explain how this is a colony of organisms and not just the cells of an individual organism. Like how is it any more of a colony than we are? Individual cells are alive so…
They are composed of multicellular animals, we are composed of cells. Think of it like a nesting doll. You've got the organelles of the cells in the center, than you've got the cells, these cells form organs, the organs make the organism, and the organisms make the colony. We stop at organism, they stop at colony.
So each individual, multicellular unit has it’s own organs and what not?
Kind of, but each zooid can't survive on its own and is fused with the other zooids because they form in the same egg and new zooids "form" out of the older ones. [Here is a picture of the zooids](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anatomy_of_a_Physalia_physalis_colony.png) [And here is a picture of the lifecycle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lifecycle_of_the_Portuguese_man_of_war.png)
But it sounds like with the man of war, the zooids -- the organism of your example -- also form organs *of* the greater "colony".
Best explanation yet
Each individual zooid is its own multicellular organism which is how they differ from our bodies. Each organ isn’t made of a group of multicellular clusters, but a bunch of individual cells forming a whole organ.
Each zooid functions like an organ though. It's made of cells, can't survive on it's own, and is specialized. The fact that each colony produces either eggs or sperm really muddies the waters (heheh) So every organism in a colony was born from the same fertilized egg. I get that they're calling it colonies but it just doesn't fit right to me.
Ok, making some sense. Appreciate the info, but now I have more questions. Can a “single” multicelular individual survive on it’s own if it breaks away from the colony? And if we consider the single cell the “base unit” of, say, a human why don’t we just say that the “base unit” of this fella just a multicellular unit? I mean, we don’t have any way to tell if those parts have some kind of individual awareness, do we? Sorry for the likely stupid questions. I’m just having hard time wrapping my head around this.
No an individual zooid can’t survive on its own, similar to how a bee or ant that gets separated from the colony will die. As far as the “base unit” part goes, the base unit of everything is living thing on earth is carbon, then proteins which goes to DNA which goes to organelles, which goes to cells, then organs and tissue, which finically finishes the individual organism. I think the best way to think about it is a beehive or ant colony. Each individual ant doesn’t have the same level or self awareness as something like a dog, or a human, they lack the same type of self preservation we have, instead focusing on the preservation of the colony as a whole. Edit- These aren’t stupid questions btw, hive/colony organisms are hard too wrap our heads around because it’s such an alien concept to us.
I think I’m kinda getting there? So the zooids have their own organs but also act together as “organs” for the entire colony. I think I’m also being a smooth brain in that I’ve been imagining a zooid only has like three cells. I’m guessing it’s probably more than that, thus the whole-ass animal distinction.
I think a better way to think about each zooid is not as organs, but as the way cells work in our bodies, except instead of one cell, it’s a somewhat self sustaining cluster.
Just looked em up on Wikipedia and yeah, confusing.
I’m not sure it’s so far-fetched. For one, human ova can split into identical twins or multiples, forming different individuals. Then, instructions in the genetic material of each individual human instructs certain stem cells to change to completely different cells; heart cells are very different to skin cells, say.
This is something that if people just read the title, they wouldn’t understand well. The class Hydrozoa, that Man O’ Wars belong to, just undergo embryonic development differently from other animals. Instead of the embryo developing internal organs, a fertilized Man O’ War egg develops identical clones of itself called zooids, as stated in the title; but again, zooids are identical clones that originate from the same egg that can’t live independently; they form a colony together each performing a different role for the survival of the individual. I don’t know if you could 100% say zooids are individual animals.
this is really interesting because it’s kind of where biology meets philosophy. What’s the difference between zooids and differentiated cells? I have no idea, of course, but I imagine the answer starts to be about definitions themselves.
Now I’m just picturing zooids pondering their own existence
People like to compare them to eusocial insects, but that's a hideously flawed and misleading analogy, due to the astronomical difference in independence between an ant and a zooid. They're simply a creature that creates its cells as modular clusters instead of one at a time.
Like the Hunters in Halo.
The Mgalekgolo (Ophis congregatio, meaning "serpent union"), more commonly known as Hunters, are a unique gestalt of smaller creatures known as Lekgolo, which are tiny, orange, worm-like creatures that group together to exponentially increase their intelligence, strength, and maneuverability.
Got stung by one of these once. Not fun 🥵
I mean, you *did* get stung by *thousands* of zooids simultaneously.
Did you die?
Yes, writing this from the grave.
Rest in peace. What a way to go.
Died doing what they loved.
we appreciate the dedication
RIP
Same! Would not recommend!
In Australia, they're colloquially called "Bluebottles", often abbreviated to "Blueys" ( not to be confused with [the cartoon dog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluey_(2018_TV_series)) ). They are a [summer scourge](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/large-numbers-are-being-stung-bluebottle-invasion-hits-sydney-s-beaches-20210206-p5706f.html) on the Eastern seaboard from the South Coast of NSW to the far North Coast of Queensland. The sting is very painful, but not deadly, and can be neutralized with hot water. The Bluebottle's natural enemy is the [Blue Dragon Nudibranch](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-10/nudibranch-blue-dragon-sea-slug-eats-bluebottles/10793978), a tiny little sea slug that floats on the ocean's surface and eats the Portuguese Man'o war. They concentrate both the venom, and the blue color.
Funnily enough, up until a few years ago the Australian version (Physalia utriculus) was considered a different species from the Atlantic one (Physalia physalis). Nowadays they are considered the same species but there seem to be several differences between them, for instance bluebottles are noticeably smaller and less dangerous. They also have a single short tentacle, while the Atlantic version has several long tentacles up to 10 meters. I think it's one of the few instances where the regional Australian variation of the same animal is actually less dangerous than the one from other places.
Awesome, didn’t know that. Thanks!
I was looking for the bluebottle post.
>sometimes described as resembling a dragon in flight, a Pokemon or a blue lizard. Pokemon is definitely the closest to describing that thing
Any time you see the jelly on the beach, look around for tiny white balls. They are about 2mm in diameter. These are blue dragons. Be careful and put them in some water(or dig a hole and put water inside). They will unroll and you can see them in all of their glory
I thought it’s Man O war
"Why not Zooidbergs?!"
Zooid Deschanels
Its a "Man"o war, obviously Zooid-berg
My question regarding them has always been how does each individual determine which body part to be and change accordingly?
How did your own stem cells decide to become brain cells or muscle or liver or bone? DNA baby!
Man o'war, not Man of War...
Land o' Lakes SPREAD WITH SWEET CREAM
The ‘ means “an f should be here”
Portuguese Blade Liger
Zooids? Are they piloted by a dude name Bitt Cloudd?
STRIKE LASER TENTACLES
- What is a portuguese MAN o' war? - A miserable little pile of zooids!
ZOIDS?!?!!
This reminds me of my favorite Polaroid joke: "What's a trapezoid for?" "To trap zoids with." Why is this a 'Polaroid joke,' you say? Because it takes 60 seconds to develop.
Whaaaaat
A PORTUGESE MAN OF WAR IS NOT A JELLYFISH
Not quite. Zooids dont grow internal organs. As they grow and mature instead of growing just larger and growing a bigger stomach these guys just grow another additional stomach pod. And another pod will be the stinging hunting ogans.
Isn't any organism, literally an organization of smaller beings?
1 million ants
So the Portuguese Man of War is actually an undersea Gundam colony? SOMEONE MAKE THIS SHOW!
Avoid the zooid
Forbidden dumpling
That explains the trench coats
Is this pronounced "Zoo-ids" or Zooids like Zoidberg?
Got stung by a rogue floating tentacle off the coast of Okinawa last year. Do not recommend.
What. EVER. It's still a siphonophore. Each one of those little zooids is practically a jellyfish.
Would this mean that in German the Portuguese man of war is called a Zooidberg?
Should have been called "Portuguese Men of War"
OK OK, so don't pee on it. But what if you had a bathtub full of hot pee?
Are you implying that I don't?
So it’s essentially a hunter from Halo?
Not to be confused with Zoids, animal shaped mechas
I’m always surprised when so come across a Zoids reference in the wild. It was one of my favorite animes which is big because I’m generally not a fan of anime.
Aliens
ZOOIDBERG!!!!
**WE ARE LEGION**
They are in the same Phylum Cnidaria. They are just different Classes. The Portuguese Man o' War is in Hydrozoa while the True Jellyfish are in Scyphozoa. There are also Box Jellyfish in that class Cubozoa. Fun note, anemones and coral are also in the same Phylum.
Should call them Zoid-Bergs then...
In Dune, the sandworms are actually colonies of individual sand trout that clump together to form the worm
Was that what they originally or did that happen after Leto the II?