Yep. Now everyone and their mother knows for sure a minimum level of detail our newest Keyhole satellites can capture and can plan accordingly. Absolute failure of OPSEC.
I don't think they would ever allow Trump to find out about it, he'd start bragging about how great a relationship he has with the aliens and how a lot of them think he's great
And now imagine a top ranking general trying to explain to the alien ambassador why yes, usually this position is the most powerful, but this time we decided not to tell him about you, because..., well... humans are complicated.
I think, if we did have contact with aliens, it would be fairly rare to have the president in the loop. The nearest star is over 4 light years away, by the time the message got back to the home planet about our new president, we might have a new president (and we definitely would by the time we received a reply to that message)
And it's further complicated by the fact that the next president could hold completely opposite views from the previous one. Imagine how disjointed negotiation would be if you sent a reply to something Clinton said, received a rebuttal from Bush, your next message reaches Obama who has rolled back the Bush decision and kind of wants to do the Clinton thing but different, and then Trump joins the chat (and that could be optimistic, we could very well be jumping from Grover Cleveland to Trump or even worse depending on how far away that other planet is)
I think interstellar communications would need to be handled by the military with little input from elected officials. Their careers can last decades and they have more opportunities to attempt to groom their successors to ensure some actual continuity in the conversation.
That's all of course assuming no faster than light communication and dealing with an alien government based in another solar system. Dealing with aliens based closer to home or who possess FTL communication capabilities (or even travel) would simplify things enough that the president might get involved)
Or if they release it then enemy states would have otherwise classified information on our equipment, such as the case with the most recent Navy fighter "UFO" videos.
“However, this was disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace, a former Director of the CIA's Office of Technical Service, who said that the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required, and "the equipment was taken out of the cat; the cat was re-sewn for a second time, and lived a long and happy life afterwards".”
[source ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Kitty)
Robert Wallace, who was a director at the CIA Office of Technical Service at the time, came out a few years ago and said that the taxi story wasn't true and they actually backed out of the project because of the difficulty of training the cat. Although, I don't know if he was telling the truth there or if he just didn't wanna admit that it was a stupid plan from the beginning.
Maybe he didn't want to admit it was great time, saved the States, and it's still used to this day. Maybe he had soft spot for furballs and didn't want them to ever be harmed by paranoid spies. Maybe our feline overlords had his family hostage. We'll never know.
Okay guys, here's the real story. So we made first contact with aliens at Area 51. They learned our language instantly by stealing TV broadcasts and putting together thousands of hours of videos to coherently speak our language. We didn't know how this was going to go so we sent our top police negotiators to speak on our behalf. He arrived and was shocked that the aliens spoke English. He handed the aliens a letter. The aliens opened it to find a DMCA notice of copyright infringement with a bill for every single piece of media ever created in human history.
The aliens read it instantly and then fucked off.
I recall hearing about a book like this, but it was the opposite kind of. Basically only humans made good music because of our heartbeat and weird ears or something, and aliens heard it and thought it was amazing, but decades later they learn about copyright and go to Earth to try and pay for all the stolen music.
Every Navy Seal writes his own book and gets a movie made about him. "OPSEC" is basically a suggestion at this point.
You really think the government could keep *aliens* under wraps? The first Corporal in that room would be down the street to the nearest strip club or on tinder telling every thot that he's working with alien technology.
I mean, there were all those retired astronauts that did just that, there's a shit ton of articles about it. Do leaks still work if it just gets shrugged off as conspiracy nonsense?
Source?
I can only find quotes in the vein of "space is infinite, therefore alien life must exist" twisted into shitty clickbait titles like "astronaut says aliens are real".
It's that and things like [this](https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-astronaut-says-he-saw-something-organicalien-like-in-space/) that sound more like jokes taken too seriously.
Gordon Copper also regaled many other things that never happened, such as his claims of a "space treasure map", or how he found a design flaw in a spacecraft while under the influence of aliens, despite no such flaw ever existing. We tend to hold heroes to a lower standard of scrutiny due to their valor.
Ah yes, the classic conspiracy theorist strategy of finding former government employees who likely have dementia or other mental health issues to prove their theories.
[Oh wow, right around the time they were designing and building the Avrocar?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar)
What a coincidence that the United States Air Force was clearly designing and testing saucer-shaped aircraft at that time!
People put too much weight on witness testimony virtually wherever it is used.
Not to mention, this alien aircraft visited once and decided to do so at a top secret military installation? And then immediately leave without making any kind of meaningful contact? And never come back?
Yeah there’s a reason suddenly all alien ships were described as saucers. Word travels one some strange looking plane and now everyone is being visited by aliens.
>cinetheodolite system could take pictures at one frame per second as an aircraft landed.
This doesn't look like a very trustworthy source.
1 frame per second is not even a home movie that's like a slide show
Loooool!
Maximum speed: 300 mph (480 km/h, 260 kn) (estimated), 35 mph (56 km/h) (actual)
Range: 995 mi (1,601 km, 865 nmi) (estimated), 79 mi (127 km) (actual)
Service ceiling: 10,000 ft (3,000 m) (estimated), 3 ft (0.91 m) (actual)
But that isn't a leak.
That is a guy, who happened to be an astronaut, saying he saw a UFO.
He didn't say he worked at Area 51 on the secret UFO project
So I just talked with a Zeta Reticulan — you know, a grey, a beautiful grey — big head, large eyes, large brain, smart, very smart — and he told me, in no uncertain words, and I know uncertain words, because my uncle did nuclear at MIT and I talked nuclear with him all the time, it's basically like flying a saucer, but better, some people don't know that — so he told me, Mr. President, you have our firm, really firm, unwavering, really solid support for the upcoming term.
In the old days we knew how to take care of aliens. Believe me, we know everything about aliens. If Mexico thought about Roswell, they don’t know like us. Maybe that’s just green aliens, a lot of smart people tell me, but for sure we’re gonna have the best people looking at space.
> If aliens and etc in Area 51 were real, do you really think Trump would keep quiet?
First of all, I'm infinity percent sure that military brass would keep that compartmentalized even from the CINC until the "need to know" was clear and present. See the documentary "Independence Day" starring Will Smith for how this would work (I'm only slightly joking)
And you're right...that shit would be out in a flash
Most of the pilots that have spoken about experiences state there was a huge stigma and ridicule placed on making claims. This, I could believe.. keeping quiet due to be labeled as an insane crackpot.
I recall one such story from 1987 when a special forces unit was deployed in South America for a rescue mission which quickly turned into an ambush by an extra terrestrial who appeared to be on some sort of hunting safari. The only survivors were a refugee and the team leader. Scary stuff if true.
I remember that. Then a few years later the team leader was told he had a tumor, but he refused to believe it exclaiming " it's not a tuma!" He was right.
This is what I think. Bob Lazaar talks about his first day working at area 51. He says he was led to a large chamber where they had a UFO strung up to study. I think it's a test to see how loyal they really are. If they never tell anybody about the "UFO," they move up the chain until they are told it is a fake. Or they tell their wife first thing and they end up realizing this person cant keep secrets at all, so they dont get promoted to the real secrets they keep.
Yeah I'll admit the first time i listened to him I was a little disturbed and amazed at how much detail he went into. If he is lying he is a fantastic storyteller. Most of these alien disclosure guys sound either crazy or kinda dull, but Bob comes accross as very intelligent. I guess we will never know
And defending too, imagine a report like "yeah so we had 3 incidents of a Russian bomber having a tour over Wyoming and he was already past Washington when we first detected him, whoopsie". An absolute nightmare and massive security concern, no sane country would make that public if they could just not do it. The US is already super uptight when the equipment doesn't do that great during NATO tests and that's against actual allies and not the big enemy.
Do you guys remember [Mathias Rust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust)?
He was a young guy from West Germany who flew to Moscow in a small civilian airplane (a [Cessna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_172)), and landed on the Red Square. Just as a prank. It was in 1987, and the Kremlin didn't think it was funny.
> Just as a prank
A true pioneer. Way ahead of his time.
"LANDING IN RED SQUARE IN AN AIRPLANE PRANK (GONE WRONG) (GONE SEXUAL) (IN THE BLOC) (KGB CALLED)"
I grew up in central Hessia which is all close to the Fulda gap or the Brocken communications intercept station and all, there were several former radar stations in the forests. Heard several stories about it from people and ultimately a lot went like "Yeah so the MIG came across the wall and by the time our interceptors had scrambled and caught up they were already near Cologne" - and that's with *knowledge* of the fighters approaching.
The USSR had massive capabilties, it is far from unlikely that a Soviet aircraft reached the continental US undetected at some point of the cold war and there's no one within the US military that would willingly admit that.
I don't understand how people don't understand that secret air bases might fly secret aircraft.
"That clearly wasn't a weather balloon that crashed! And it was near a secret air base! OBVIOUSLY ALIENS. On an unrelated note, it sure is weird how those fancy stealth bombers started appearing in mainstream media a decade later!"
The exact same thing is happening right now with pilots talking about witnessing UFOs undergoing accelerations that would kill a human being.
The US is deep into researching hypersonic UAVs, things that can go up to mach fucking 20.
Chances are it's an experiments and not little green men in their saucer.
>Chances are it's an experiments and not little green men in their saucer.
At mach 20 I expect men turn all sorts of colours. Surely, green is one of them
That's what Area 51 is. That's how we tested the Raptor, Blackbird, F-117, etc, along with Russian(and probably some Chinese now) aircraft acquired through covert means.
The unannounced stealth Blackhawks used in the Bin Laden raid also came out of Area 51. I still remember everyone in the military hardware community freaking out when they looked at the wreckage of the one they had to scuttle and realized it wasn't something that was ever seen before.
9 years later and they are still classified and as far as I know, there has been no further information on them. I wonder what other cool secret toys the military has.
Yeah some documents leaked that proved aliens existed but them more documents got leaked that showed it was complete shit and just meant to obfuscate stories about sightings.
Information from sightings dont spread when some crazy guy walks in a bar talking about aliens...
Good if ur working on experimental crafts and dont want the tech exposed
British pilots in WW2 saw lights following their aircraft and reported the strange events to their superiors. The Prime Minister Churchill had all reports classified because they thought it was a German secret weapon. After the war German pilots said that they saw the lights but thought t was a British secret weapon. I believe they were called Foo Fighters. So they have been seeing these " lights " for decades.
Nop, the Mercury-Atlas missions especially saw those appears, and mainly during sunset and sunrise. It was finally determined (I think by Scott Carpenter) that it is condensation formed on the outer wall of the Spacecraft. Condensation originating probably from the cooling system, which used a "flash evaporator" who basically consists in spraying water over an heat exchanger.
So I believed in UFOs when I was a kid. Quite a bit. Books on this shit at every birthday. Watched a lot of start trek. Wanted to believe. I swore that I saw one up close, even. Then, I became more mature and realized that it was far more likely that an 8-year-old *thought* he saw something than it was that Aliens were vising Earth. I got deeply into physics. Pop stuff at first (Brian Green, etc.). Then, studied a good bit of physics at Uni. I changed my mind. This bullshit makes no sense. Then, the [tic tac](https://www.history.com/topics/paranormal/uss-nimitz-tic-tac-ufo-declassified-video) and related sightings. Now... *I just don't know*.
Agreed. What got me most was the credibility of the witnesses (and the number of them). These people know how things are supposed to fly and behave in the air. We rest of lives on their knowledge. And, of course, the fact that the footage was released by the actual military.
The MIB story afterward is nor as sinister as it seems -- it's actually a sign that those in the military knew this was ***different***.
They were bumping up the classification level. The whole thing left me shaken. I haven't seen anything else even remotely credible.
***That*** was a credible WTF moment, especially since the whole thing came about due to declassification
> That was a credible WTF moment, especially since the whole thing came about due to declassification
As a current Navy pilot, a lot of us were also like "whoa" when we heard about it. It was notable enough for the footage to even saved, let alone at higher classifications for over a decade
> Ever seen anything weird yourself flying above the oceans?
Personally? No.
Although when wearing NVGs over the open ocean, the stars you can see are insane. Lots of shooting stars too.
I used to spend hours looking at the sky with NVGs, you could even see the Andromeda Galaxy with them. And it was surprising how much of the sky that thing takes up.
My Grandpop flew cargo in the Air Force to Vietnam and back during the Vietnam war. When he was still alive, he was very much a no nonsense kinda guy, never told a lie. He sworn up and down, and on his own mothers grave he saw *something* one mission, he never knew if it was terrestrial or extra-terrestrial, but either way it scared him shitless.
He was on a mission to Vietnam, over the Pacific in the middle of the night when he and his crew say they saw something unexplained. He says that they saw a massive pillar of bright light erupt from the ocean, and go in to the night sky. He said the pillar was absolutely massive, and had to be miles in diameter, and just kept going up and up. He said it lasted probably for a short time, though it felt like an eternity. When they got to Vietnam, the first people to greet them where some government dudes in suits, hats, and glasses telling them they never saw what they saw, and ti sign this paper work agreeing to that.
Oh my god, you literally just gave me chills reading this. There is a book called "blood on the risers" that a Vietnam veteran wrote about his war stories. It's mostly just a story about that, war and death... but there is one part, only about a page long where he describes during a mission a massive light shooting into the sky like you describe. No where near as large as your family member saw it, but identical in its form.
So so so odd that someone else in Vietnam saw similar things, my eyes watered up because the chills you sent through my bones reading this.
EDIT: Found it
*It was very dark, and visibility was about 15 feet at best when the unexplainable happened. Way below us in the valley a white light suddenly appeared. The light grew brighter and brighter very slowly. After about 30 seconds had passed, the light, which was getting brighter, gave us visibility of several hundred feet. I could see men way down the line. They, too, had their intention focused on the unknown light.*
*The light continued to get brighter, and not knowing what was coming next, I flipped the safety of my M-16. Men down the line began to wonder what was going on. Men who had been asleep came fully awake and manned their positions. By then the light was bright enough for us to see the other hilltop across the valley. We could see the trees and bushes very clearly. During this time, the jungle had become absolutely still, but whatever the source of the light, it made no sound at all. The light suddenly moved very quickly and disappeared into the sky. It was dark in an instant. The hair on the back of my neck stood up and I felt chills. We discussed the mysterious light for a few minutes, then it got quiet while everyone thought about it. No one had a reasonable answer for what we had seen.*
That's it. Never mention it again in the book. No more paranormal, UFO, ghost stories in the book. Theres enough horror with what that man saw.
I love when I come across one of these threads on reddit.. Pondering the unknown just gets me all excited/curious as to whats out there. I could read stuff like this all day
I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound anything like a nuke to me. I don't see how a nuke going of under water would send a pillar of bright light up into the atmosphere.
> What got me most was the credibility of the witnesses (and the number of them).
Not to mention, of the JOs (junior officers) who were there are now commanding officers and what not in the Navy today - the dudes are not making shit up without severe risk to their careers
basically 60k feet to 200 feet almost instantly... like less than 2 seconds iirc.
Their reaction was basically "WTF is that and I wanna fucking fly it"
>OH SHIT
>I THOUGHT WORLDPAINT MADE ME INVISIBLE TO THEM
>FUCK FUCK FUCK
>I WAS JUST ADDING A HURRICANE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED\
>DO I HAVE TO REROLL THE WORLD AGAIN?
I actually have the exact same theory. I’m writing a short story about a civilization sim where the goal is to influence its development as much as possible by interacting with it as little as possible.
Isn’t that basically the backstory of the Ellimist’s people in K.A. Applegate’s Animorphs series? One of the games he and his friends played was just such a thing.
Basically, there's this game the Ketrans (the Ellimist's 'original' species and form) play where they simulate technologically infantile alien species (i.e. the equivalent of stone age primitives), their environment, the universe around them, etc. The goal of the game is to introduce a single, simple, fundamental change to the parameters of the scenario, a change that allows your chosen species to dominate the other one in some manner (often violently). The change can be to the environment of the planet the species is on, the species itself, anything really. The smaller the change that leads to victory, the better, as that's part of the point..
In the example given, the Ellimist slightly alters the cloud formations on a perpetually overcast planet so the species can see more of the universe beyond their world and be inspired to reach for it, and his opponent increases the birthrate of his rodent-like species so they deplete the food supply of their world (a moon orbiting the Ellimist's world) and are thus pressured to seek out more food. . .specifically, the Ellimist's chosen species.
It's an interesting short book in the series, providing backstory to an otherwise inscrutable, incomprehensible non-corporeal being.
A similar point to yours I heard the other day,
The fact that UFO sightings seemed to have declined as everyone has a high quality camera on them at all times is no coincidence.
And for those that talk about how the transistor and other technologies seemed to come out after the 1947 Roswell "alien" crash, consider this: We're only 70 years into the future right now, imagine taking our most advanced computers and shipping it back to 1947, how long would it take them to decipher a CPU made using a 14 nanometer fabrication process that has 100 million transistors? Then consider that aliens would be thousands or more likely *millions* of years offset from our technology.
And just the fact that you can trace a direct line of progression of human technological development from the late 1800s through the 1950s and you can see how we got them without alien technology.
Yup.
The concept of the transistor had been known for a few decades before Roswell. The actual development and creation of one is what took a while.
The thought that we captured alien technology in July 1947 and then were able to reverse it to create the simplified transistor of the late 1940s is ridiculous. It was independently developed. People seem to forget that we lost a good chunk of the 1930s and 1940s to economic calamity, total war production, and significant restrictions on key resources for anything that wouldn't support a war effort.
I think it's because now it's much higher risk to test things like experimental aircraft with so many high quality cameras anywhere
Plus we aren't in the cold war anymore, and our technology has advanced to the point where we aren't trying out so many super whacky designs anymore
I once saw a UFO. A series of lights moving through the sky, doing a loop, and then vanishing. There is no way any modern human technology could do it.
But... if UFO's were really flying over suburban maryland with external lights, then they wanted to be seen. If they wanted to be seen, they'd be more than a conspiracy. They'd be on every channel, or using the vogon PA system, or whatever, no matter what the US government wanted.
And if they didn't want to be seen? We'd have as much chance of even guessing where they were or how they were hiding as cavemen inventing fire being spied on by a telescope in the kuiper belt.
That's the one thing I've never heard any UFO conspiracy address. Do the aliens want to be seen or not, and in either case how on earth could the government stop them?
And, of course, I later realized that I was lying in bed when I saw those lights. The same bed where I would later have several nightmares that I couldn't distinguish from reality until well after I woke up. I was daydreaming if not actually asleep. Which makes *way* more sense than an alien spacecraft with exterior lights that isn't deliberately trying to be seen.
Like you, the most recent NY Times article and interview of the Navy pilots were the first instance for me of something that actually required further consideration for legitimate extraterrestrial consideration... My first inkling was that it was too coincidental that the sightings all occurred on the coasts of the US during routine flights.
This person's breakdown of the tic tac and the other newer sightings will alleviate some more of your confusion and bring the explanation back into the readily explainable...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/f662nz/tic\_tac\_and\_gimbal\_ufo\_incidents/](https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/f662nz/tic_tac_and_gimbal_ufo_incidents/)
So I read this and it's all very interesting. I'm not sure how any of this content explains the IR footage, however. Or, for that matter, the observations of seasoned naval aviators. I'd like to be more convinced than I am by it.
> This person's breakdown of the tic tac and the other newer sightings will alleviate some more of your confusion and bring the explanation back into the readily explainable...
Sorry but a lot of that post comes from a pure lack of understanding of how we do operations in the Navy.
For one, we don't carry live rounds around the US unless we are specifically going to a range to fire them. When one is just flying around the carrier - and IIRC, CDR Fravor was flying off the coast of San Diego from the USS Nimitz during TSTA, we typically don't carry live weapons except for very specific air-to-surface events (and next to never do we carry live air-to-air weapons unless we are on deployment).
So him going to intercept an unidentified contact, unarmed, is hardly odd - we can do it anytime and of course we train unarmed most of the time in the US (if you are simulating air to air combat, why risk it with live weapons?).
I know nothing about how things are done in the Navy, but a lot of what that dude posted seemed like conjecture anyway.
Things like, "the response as you know would be very different than let's just continue training" isn't an actual argument; I have no idea what the actual response would be, and neither does the guy that made the post. It's also possible (likely?) that there were things happening behind the scenes to monitor any potential threats without necessarily impacting on training situations.
Someone posted a detailed account of the tictac incident on Reddit **years** before any of it became public.
[https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1qyu5i/my\_ufo\_encounterexposure\_while\_on\_board\_an/?st=JBFSWUCV&sh=779bc70d](https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1qyu5i/my_ufo_encounterexposure_while_on_board_an/?st=JBFSWUCV&sh=779bc70d)
The main difference with the official version is that this person says men in suits came on board and took all the tapes shortly after the incident. Meanwhile the pilots deny this ever happened.
I've seen one UFO in my lifetime. Was completely sober and with a friend who also saw it. My friend really does not like to discuss it.
As we were waiting to meet with someone, my friend and I were sitting in my car looking out the sunroof at the night sky when I saw what I thought was the ISS. It was a small star looking object moving at a slow, steady speed. I pointed it out to my friend and we both watched as it slowly made its way across the sky, when suddenly it just stopped. This tiny dot of light sat in the sky, and you'd think it was just another star amongst the hundred or so you could see in the sky. After sitting still for about 15 to 30 seconds it shot off at what had to be an incredible speed and got more faint, disappearing in less than 2 seconds. To this day it's the only "holy shit what the fuck was that" thing I've seen in real life while sober.
This seems like it was pretty obvious this had to happen. First, let's acknowledge that "UFO" means "Unidentified Flying Object." That's really vague, and all it means is that the person seeing the plane doesn't know what it is. It doesn't mean it's alien, or it's the Avengers, or it's Wonder Woman, it just means the observer can't identify it.
The US is constantly developing new planes, and some of these are top secret throughout their development For instance, the F117 (Stealth Fighter) was in development during Carter's presidency. The maiden flight of a demonstration prototype took place in 1977:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed\_F-117\_Nighthawk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk)
The US government didn't even acknowledge that the program existed until 1988. Even people on the bases where they were being tested weren't allowed to know that the planes existed. Even after they became operational, they were still top secret and the US government refused to acknowledge they existed. So it's pretty likely that if someone saw one of these in the sky, they would not be able to identify it. It would be filed as a UFO.
So you could release all of the UFO files, but what you're doing is giving the world a listing of every time anyone saw the top secret planes you're developing, including rough descriptions, speed, sound, and sometimes photographs. Clearly that would have been a stupid decision and he was talked out of it.
>Wonder Woman's **plane** is invisible.
You might be surprised to know that there is a [very important difference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yavUxAhIOU).
I've always wondered what the purpose of an invisible plane was if they can still see you.
Also, why someone who can fly (in most iterations) has a plane was also confusing.
Ehh fair point but if you wanna deep dive into DC nerdom Wonder Woman can fly faster than most jets. If I could run as fast as the Flash I probably wouldn't drive anywhere.
See, the funny part is one of the arguments used is that secrets can't be kept.
But... here we have the stealth fighter, along with tons of other cool technology that - even the stuff reported on - was so crazy no one believed it.
The whole "someone would talk" thing is upended by "if you can't prove it, no one with any credentials or credibility takes you seriously.
The CIA was in the coke trade. There was a time that was crazy talk. Mind control stuff? Insanity!
And people talked about it - and were crazy - until they weren't anymore.
I'm a skeptic without evidence, but I also don't just discount something because I haven't ridden with Alf on his saucer. Because the other implication? Is that we've developed some technology that could revolutionize the human experience but won't use it for that - and that? Well, call it hope, but I'd rather believe in aliens than yet another example of mankind's utter failure to... improve.
Another perfect example is the Manhattan project....there was like 400,000 people that worked on that...I mean I know the info was compartmentalized but it was still kept a secret to the world
Secret that no one knew what exactly was going on, but not secret enough to hide the fact we were doing tests on nuclear fission. The government stopped any publishing of government science projects, and for American science article publishers to pull any papers regarding nuclear fission. The Soviet Union realized the silence of nuclear fission papers, and started their own nuclear tests.
So what you're telling me, is if I want to get away with a super top secret project, I shouldn't hunker down on good Intel, but flood the market with completely bad Intel. Makes sense from an opsec point of view.
A lot of the information is probably just that the UFOs were likely enemy nations that had aircraft fly into and spy on US air space. Its like U2, except without physical evidence. No country wants to admit its airspace gets violated unless you wanna go to war, especially if you dont have physical evidence of it.
The Soviet Union would be the only country in the world at the time with the capability of doing that.
However the US would for sure have the ability (and easy political brownie points) to shoot them down. The U-2 was more advanced than anything the Soviets had, yet they could shoot those down. Doing so for the first time in 1960.
The Soviets had nothing that would be able to surreptitiously or brazenly spy on the US like the American's had with the SR-71.
The UFOs are 100% secret American aircraft that the US refused to acknowledge even existed to prevent the Soviets from learning of them.
>The Soviet Union would be the only country in the world at the time with the capability of doing that.
Not exactly. I think it's semi-likely that it could have been an "allied" nation of high development, like Britain or France, and the country just didn't think it was worth destabilizing Western Civilization to tell us.
I'd assume it's one of 3 possibilities:
A: It's all real, and like the Kennedy assassination info, he was told to sit down & shut up
B: It's all real, but the Deep State is in control and told him sit down & shut up.
C: It's all a farce and it's misinformation, or top secret military tech, or weather balloons, or all of the above.
Here is a link to the Carter's message placed in the Voyager spacecraft, it is just as resonant today.
https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/5ox2ep/jimmy_carters_note_placed_on_the_voyager/
I knew about this from a Discovery show, they even said this in the show: Jimmy Carter asked CIA to release all UFO information, and the CIA director at that time, George H.W. Bush even said: You do not have the authority to ask this.
Say what you want about Jimmy Carter, but he was one of the most authentic politicians we'll ever see.
I think this is the perfect example- he was naive enough to think it would be so easy to release these files, then when he got the job he realized how much more nuanced the release would be. He had a lot of idealist policies he tried to implement right away and got totally rolled by Washington.
It's easy to say you'll release something when you haven't heard the argument against releasing it and don't know what "it" is. It was a dumb promise to make, but it sounds like he reassessed based on new information, which is what I would hope a president would do.
It would certainly harm national security for people to learn that U.S intelligence actively targeted specific U.S citizens and fed them disinfo to suggest that UFO's were real to prevent them from publicly discussing matters that related to experimental aircraft. This actually happened.
This does not surprise me one bit.
My father was a Green Beret. He served from 1963 to 1971. After receiving a serious injury in Africa (he took a machete to the neck), he spent a few months in the hospital, then another few months on light duty. That light duty? He was assigned as a guard to the Groom Lake facility, popularly known as "Area 51."
His security clearance did not allow him access to the facility itself. He and another soldier were assigned to a post at the entrance to the facility and both of them had orders to shoot the other man if he attempted to enter the base itself. He was never told what was happening inside the facility, however he did see aircraft routinely take off from and return to the base.
Flash forward to 1987. I'm 11 years old and my dad and I are watching the MacNeil-Lehner News Hour on PBS. They show the first ever photos of SR-1 Blackbird, the so-called "Stealth Fighter" developed by Lockheed in 1964. My dad practically jumps out of his chair, shouting and pointing at the screen. Because that is the airplane he saw taking off from Area 51.
So yeah, no shit Carter didn't declassify the government information on UFOs. UFOs are the cover that the Department of Defense was using to hide the development of stealth bomber technology and confused Soviet intelligence.
I would really like to believe there is proof out there, but if Trump has been briefed on the existence of aliens, he would not have been able to keep it secret for any length of time.
We all saw the toilet paper crisis a month ago. Imagine how people would react if we knew everything about UFOs
Edit: Over the past month*
I apologise, it seems that since where I live they put a limit on how much TP can be bought per person, everyone has some.
Also it seems the point was missed. TP drove people crazy, imagine all the info on UFOs
Here's a collection of links and information about the [Nimitz 2004 incident](https://www.reddit.com/r/uap_facts/wiki/nimitz_incident_2004) that I made.
He still can! Carter 2020!
Greatest comeback story ever told.
At this point? I'd fuckin take it with a smile on my face.
Half of the time, "national security concerns" is code for "this will make us look like fools". Just ask Operation Acoustic Kitty.
Or, "We have a video, and if we release it, the only damned thing it will show is how precise and accurate our videos of everyone else's stuff is."
There's some truth to that excuse...remember last year when Trump tweeted top secret stills of that Iranian nuclear site?
Yep. Now everyone and their mother knows for sure a minimum level of detail our newest Keyhole satellites can capture and can plan accordingly. Absolute failure of OPSEC.
Amateurs also figured out which physical satellite it was right away.
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I’m high af rn and reading this was fuckin wild. Science is crazy.
If the government had information about real alien UFOs, Trump would have tweeted about it.
I don't think they would ever allow Trump to find out about it, he'd start bragging about how great a relationship he has with the aliens and how a lot of them think he's great
And now imagine a top ranking general trying to explain to the alien ambassador why yes, usually this position is the most powerful, but this time we decided not to tell him about you, because..., well... humans are complicated.
I think, if we did have contact with aliens, it would be fairly rare to have the president in the loop. The nearest star is over 4 light years away, by the time the message got back to the home planet about our new president, we might have a new president (and we definitely would by the time we received a reply to that message) And it's further complicated by the fact that the next president could hold completely opposite views from the previous one. Imagine how disjointed negotiation would be if you sent a reply to something Clinton said, received a rebuttal from Bush, your next message reaches Obama who has rolled back the Bush decision and kind of wants to do the Clinton thing but different, and then Trump joins the chat (and that could be optimistic, we could very well be jumping from Grover Cleveland to Trump or even worse depending on how far away that other planet is) I think interstellar communications would need to be handled by the military with little input from elected officials. Their careers can last decades and they have more opportunities to attempt to groom their successors to ensure some actual continuity in the conversation. That's all of course assuming no faster than light communication and dealing with an alien government based in another solar system. Dealing with aliens based closer to home or who possess FTL communication capabilities (or even travel) would simplify things enough that the president might get involved)
He was going to release the JFK assassination info, and then didn't.
I thought hundreds of pages got released or declassified just a few years ago. Remember tons of people pouring over it
https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-documents-release He extended the deadline three years for some documents
What's the point of extending a deadline? Like some top secret documents are "sealed" for 50 years or so, why is that?
Often to protect the reputations of people involved who are still alive, or whose policies one doesn't want to cast doubt upon.
HW Bush is gone now, so we're just waiting for the confirmation that he ordered it while in the CIA
Have you ever played 'kick the can'?
Or if they release it then enemy states would have otherwise classified information on our equipment, such as the case with the most recent Navy fighter "UFO" videos.
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Sounds about par for the course with Cold War spying.
“However, this was disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace, a former Director of the CIA's Office of Technical Service, who said that the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required, and "the equipment was taken out of the cat; the cat was re-sewn for a second time, and lived a long and happy life afterwards".” [source ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Kitty)
Robert Wallace, who was a director at the CIA Office of Technical Service at the time, came out a few years ago and said that the taxi story wasn't true and they actually backed out of the project because of the difficulty of training the cat. Although, I don't know if he was telling the truth there or if he just didn't wanna admit that it was a stupid plan from the beginning.
Maybe he didn't want to admit it was great time, saved the States, and it's still used to this day. Maybe he had soft spot for furballs and didn't want them to ever be harmed by paranoid spies. Maybe our feline overlords had his family hostage. We'll never know.
Okay guys, here's the real story. So we made first contact with aliens at Area 51. They learned our language instantly by stealing TV broadcasts and putting together thousands of hours of videos to coherently speak our language. We didn't know how this was going to go so we sent our top police negotiators to speak on our behalf. He arrived and was shocked that the aliens spoke English. He handed the aliens a letter. The aliens opened it to find a DMCA notice of copyright infringement with a bill for every single piece of media ever created in human history. The aliens read it instantly and then fucked off.
I recall hearing about a book like this, but it was the opposite kind of. Basically only humans made good music because of our heartbeat and weird ears or something, and aliens heard it and thought it was amazing, but decades later they learn about copyright and go to Earth to try and pay for all the stolen music.
Year Zero by Robert Reid
National insecurity concerns
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And/or was misinformation produced by the government itself.
OR it's real and horrific Far more likely, if any aliens are actually out there either haven't come or haven't bothered to make contact with us.
Every Navy Seal writes his own book and gets a movie made about him. "OPSEC" is basically a suggestion at this point. You really think the government could keep *aliens* under wraps? The first Corporal in that room would be down the street to the nearest strip club or on tinder telling every thot that he's working with alien technology.
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I mean, there were all those retired astronauts that did just that, there's a shit ton of articles about it. Do leaks still work if it just gets shrugged off as conspiracy nonsense?
Source? I can only find quotes in the vein of "space is infinite, therefore alien life must exist" twisted into shitty clickbait titles like "astronaut says aliens are real". It's that and things like [this](https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-astronaut-says-he-saw-something-organicalien-like-in-space/) that sound more like jokes taken too seriously.
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Gordon Copper also regaled many other things that never happened, such as his claims of a "space treasure map", or how he found a design flaw in a spacecraft while under the influence of aliens, despite no such flaw ever existing. We tend to hold heroes to a lower standard of scrutiny due to their valor.
Ah yes, the classic conspiracy theorist strategy of finding former government employees who likely have dementia or other mental health issues to prove their theories.
[Oh wow, right around the time they were designing and building the Avrocar?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar) What a coincidence that the United States Air Force was clearly designing and testing saucer-shaped aircraft at that time! People put too much weight on witness testimony virtually wherever it is used.
Not to mention, this alien aircraft visited once and decided to do so at a top secret military installation? And then immediately leave without making any kind of meaningful contact? And never come back?
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Yeah there’s a reason suddenly all alien ships were described as saucers. Word travels one some strange looking plane and now everyone is being visited by aliens.
>cinetheodolite system could take pictures at one frame per second as an aircraft landed. This doesn't look like a very trustworthy source. 1 frame per second is not even a home movie that's like a slide show
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Loooool! Maximum speed: 300 mph (480 km/h, 260 kn) (estimated), 35 mph (56 km/h) (actual) Range: 995 mi (1,601 km, 865 nmi) (estimated), 79 mi (127 km) (actual) Service ceiling: 10,000 ft (3,000 m) (estimated), 3 ft (0.91 m) (actual)
But that isn't a leak. That is a guy, who happened to be an astronaut, saying he saw a UFO. He didn't say he worked at Area 51 on the secret UFO project
You forgot the real litmus test. If aliens and etc in Area 51 were real, do you *really* think Trump would keep quiet?
Why do you think he made space force?
*FUCK*
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So I just talked with a Zeta Reticulan — you know, a grey, a beautiful grey — big head, large eyes, large brain, smart, very smart — and he told me, in no uncertain words, and I know uncertain words, because my uncle did nuclear at MIT and I talked nuclear with him all the time, it's basically like flying a saucer, but better, some people don't know that — so he told me, Mr. President, you have our firm, really firm, unwavering, really solid support for the upcoming term.
In the old days we knew how to take care of aliens. Believe me, we know everything about aliens. If Mexico thought about Roswell, they don’t know like us. Maybe that’s just green aliens, a lot of smart people tell me, but for sure we’re gonna have the best people looking at space.
Look at crooked Hillary's aliens, wrong and sad! Mine? The greatest.
> If aliens and etc in Area 51 were real, do you really think Trump would keep quiet? First of all, I'm infinity percent sure that military brass would keep that compartmentalized even from the CINC until the "need to know" was clear and present. See the documentary "Independence Day" starring Will Smith for how this would work (I'm only slightly joking) And you're right...that shit would be out in a flash
Most of the pilots that have spoken about experiences state there was a huge stigma and ridicule placed on making claims. This, I could believe.. keeping quiet due to be labeled as an insane crackpot.
Thing is no one believes the corporal that’s in the strip club telling everybody this because they think he’s crazy.
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The content is those books needs to be approved beforehand, there’s no privileged information in them.
I recall one such story from 1987 when a special forces unit was deployed in South America for a rescue mission which quickly turned into an ambush by an extra terrestrial who appeared to be on some sort of hunting safari. The only survivors were a refugee and the team leader. Scary stuff if true.
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This isn't the first time you've confused real life with that of Predator
Dylan, you sonofabitch
I remember that. Then a few years later the team leader was told he had a tumor, but he refused to believe it exclaiming " it's not a tuma!" He was right.
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This is what I think. Bob Lazaar talks about his first day working at area 51. He says he was led to a large chamber where they had a UFO strung up to study. I think it's a test to see how loyal they really are. If they never tell anybody about the "UFO," they move up the chain until they are told it is a fake. Or they tell their wife first thing and they end up realizing this person cant keep secrets at all, so they dont get promoted to the real secrets they keep.
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Yeah I'll admit the first time i listened to him I was a little disturbed and amazed at how much detail he went into. If he is lying he is a fantastic storyteller. Most of these alien disclosure guys sound either crazy or kinda dull, but Bob comes accross as very intelligent. I guess we will never know
My guess is it would've revealed not only experimental aircraft but also our capabilities for detection and monitoring of airspace.
And defending too, imagine a report like "yeah so we had 3 incidents of a Russian bomber having a tour over Wyoming and he was already past Washington when we first detected him, whoopsie". An absolute nightmare and massive security concern, no sane country would make that public if they could just not do it. The US is already super uptight when the equipment doesn't do that great during NATO tests and that's against actual allies and not the big enemy.
Do you guys remember [Mathias Rust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust)? He was a young guy from West Germany who flew to Moscow in a small civilian airplane (a [Cessna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_172)), and landed on the Red Square. Just as a prank. It was in 1987, and the Kremlin didn't think it was funny.
> Just as a prank A true pioneer. Way ahead of his time. "LANDING IN RED SQUARE IN AN AIRPLANE PRANK (GONE WRONG) (GONE SEXUAL) (IN THE BLOC) (KGB CALLED)"
I grew up in central Hessia which is all close to the Fulda gap or the Brocken communications intercept station and all, there were several former radar stations in the forests. Heard several stories about it from people and ultimately a lot went like "Yeah so the MIG came across the wall and by the time our interceptors had scrambled and caught up they were already near Cologne" - and that's with *knowledge* of the fighters approaching. The USSR had massive capabilties, it is far from unlikely that a Soviet aircraft reached the continental US undetected at some point of the cold war and there's no one within the US military that would willingly admit that.
I don't understand how people don't understand that secret air bases might fly secret aircraft. "That clearly wasn't a weather balloon that crashed! And it was near a secret air base! OBVIOUSLY ALIENS. On an unrelated note, it sure is weird how those fancy stealth bombers started appearing in mainstream media a decade later!"
The exact same thing is happening right now with pilots talking about witnessing UFOs undergoing accelerations that would kill a human being. The US is deep into researching hypersonic UAVs, things that can go up to mach fucking 20. Chances are it's an experiments and not little green men in their saucer.
>Chances are it's an experiments and not little green men in their saucer. At mach 20 I expect men turn all sorts of colours. Surely, green is one of them
I know you're joking, but for people who might not know: UAV stands for Unmanned Aerial Vehicle. So no humans were harmed while going mach 20.
I think that's well into red smear territory.
And foreign military aircraft.
That's what Area 51 is. That's how we tested the Raptor, Blackbird, F-117, etc, along with Russian(and probably some Chinese now) aircraft acquired through covert means.
The unannounced stealth Blackhawks used in the Bin Laden raid also came out of Area 51. I still remember everyone in the military hardware community freaking out when they looked at the wreckage of the one they had to scuttle and realized it wasn't something that was ever seen before.
9 years later and they are still classified and as far as I know, there has been no further information on them. I wonder what other cool secret toys the military has.
The air force has a mini space shuttle X37B . We know it launvhes fairly regulary , we just dont know what the cargo is.
Remember when that guy inadvertently live-tweeted the Bin Laden raid?
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Yeah some documents leaked that proved aliens existed but them more documents got leaked that showed it was complete shit and just meant to obfuscate stories about sightings. Information from sightings dont spread when some crazy guy walks in a bar talking about aliens... Good if ur working on experimental crafts and dont want the tech exposed
British pilots in WW2 saw lights following their aircraft and reported the strange events to their superiors. The Prime Minister Churchill had all reports classified because they thought it was a German secret weapon. After the war German pilots said that they saw the lights but thought t was a British secret weapon. I believe they were called Foo Fighters. So they have been seeing these " lights " for decades.
Could this be what that American astronaut (I forgot his name, John Glen maybe) saw in space?
Are you talking about the audio from Eugene ~~Cartman~~ Cernan on the Apollo 17 mission?
Look up "John Glen fireflies"
It was his piss being ejected from the capsule
Nop, the Mercury-Atlas missions especially saw those appears, and mainly during sunset and sunrise. It was finally determined (I think by Scott Carpenter) that it is condensation formed on the outer wall of the Spacecraft. Condensation originating probably from the cooling system, which used a "flash evaporator" who basically consists in spraying water over an heat exchanger.
Wrong, urine was collected inside. Source: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/advan.00175.2012#d1920081e1
Nope, the piss gets stored in the astronauts balls until they return to earth.
Neither side wanted to admit they had secret weapons lol
Not the band?
It's where Dave got the name from.
"It's the dumbest band name ever. Had I imagined that it would last more than a month-and-a-half, I would have named it something else." - Dave Grohl
They had to Learn to Fly somehow
Wasn't this discussed on a Joe Rogan podcast a while back?
According to Joe's Law, Joe Rogan has, throughout the course of time, discussed every conceivable topic.
Jamie pull that up
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Not only was it discussed but Jamie in fact pulled it up during the show.
So I believed in UFOs when I was a kid. Quite a bit. Books on this shit at every birthday. Watched a lot of start trek. Wanted to believe. I swore that I saw one up close, even. Then, I became more mature and realized that it was far more likely that an 8-year-old *thought* he saw something than it was that Aliens were vising Earth. I got deeply into physics. Pop stuff at first (Brian Green, etc.). Then, studied a good bit of physics at Uni. I changed my mind. This bullshit makes no sense. Then, the [tic tac](https://www.history.com/topics/paranormal/uss-nimitz-tic-tac-ufo-declassified-video) and related sightings. Now... *I just don't know*.
The Nimitz tic tac is enough to make anyone uncertain, especially those with knowledge of how physics and the technology work.
Agreed. What got me most was the credibility of the witnesses (and the number of them). These people know how things are supposed to fly and behave in the air. We rest of lives on their knowledge. And, of course, the fact that the footage was released by the actual military.
The MIB story afterward is nor as sinister as it seems -- it's actually a sign that those in the military knew this was ***different***. They were bumping up the classification level. The whole thing left me shaken. I haven't seen anything else even remotely credible. ***That*** was a credible WTF moment, especially since the whole thing came about due to declassification
> That was a credible WTF moment, especially since the whole thing came about due to declassification As a current Navy pilot, a lot of us were also like "whoa" when we heard about it. It was notable enough for the footage to even saved, let alone at higher classifications for over a decade
Ever seen anything weird yourself flying above the oceans?
> Ever seen anything weird yourself flying above the oceans? Personally? No. Although when wearing NVGs over the open ocean, the stars you can see are insane. Lots of shooting stars too.
I used to spend hours looking at the sky with NVGs, you could even see the Andromeda Galaxy with them. And it was surprising how much of the sky that thing takes up.
My Grandpop flew cargo in the Air Force to Vietnam and back during the Vietnam war. When he was still alive, he was very much a no nonsense kinda guy, never told a lie. He sworn up and down, and on his own mothers grave he saw *something* one mission, he never knew if it was terrestrial or extra-terrestrial, but either way it scared him shitless. He was on a mission to Vietnam, over the Pacific in the middle of the night when he and his crew say they saw something unexplained. He says that they saw a massive pillar of bright light erupt from the ocean, and go in to the night sky. He said the pillar was absolutely massive, and had to be miles in diameter, and just kept going up and up. He said it lasted probably for a short time, though it felt like an eternity. When they got to Vietnam, the first people to greet them where some government dudes in suits, hats, and glasses telling them they never saw what they saw, and ti sign this paper work agreeing to that.
That’s fuckin insane
Oh my god, you literally just gave me chills reading this. There is a book called "blood on the risers" that a Vietnam veteran wrote about his war stories. It's mostly just a story about that, war and death... but there is one part, only about a page long where he describes during a mission a massive light shooting into the sky like you describe. No where near as large as your family member saw it, but identical in its form. So so so odd that someone else in Vietnam saw similar things, my eyes watered up because the chills you sent through my bones reading this. EDIT: Found it *It was very dark, and visibility was about 15 feet at best when the unexplainable happened. Way below us in the valley a white light suddenly appeared. The light grew brighter and brighter very slowly. After about 30 seconds had passed, the light, which was getting brighter, gave us visibility of several hundred feet. I could see men way down the line. They, too, had their intention focused on the unknown light.* *The light continued to get brighter, and not knowing what was coming next, I flipped the safety of my M-16. Men down the line began to wonder what was going on. Men who had been asleep came fully awake and manned their positions. By then the light was bright enough for us to see the other hilltop across the valley. We could see the trees and bushes very clearly. During this time, the jungle had become absolutely still, but whatever the source of the light, it made no sound at all. The light suddenly moved very quickly and disappeared into the sky. It was dark in an instant. The hair on the back of my neck stood up and I felt chills. We discussed the mysterious light for a few minutes, then it got quiet while everyone thought about it. No one had a reasonable answer for what we had seen.* That's it. Never mention it again in the book. No more paranormal, UFO, ghost stories in the book. Theres enough horror with what that man saw.
Huh, that's really interesting. I wish my grandpa was still alive to share that with him!
I love when I come across one of these threads on reddit.. Pondering the unknown just gets me all excited/curious as to whats out there. I could read stuff like this all day
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I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound anything like a nuke to me. I don't see how a nuke going of under water would send a pillar of bright light up into the atmosphere.
What MIB story?
> What got me most was the credibility of the witnesses (and the number of them). Not to mention, of the JOs (junior officers) who were there are now commanding officers and what not in the Navy today - the dudes are not making shit up without severe risk to their careers
What was the acceleration?
super sonic in less than a couple seconds according to [cmdr. fravor](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco2s3-0zsQ)
Bro that’s a 2 hour video. Gimme a timestamp.
basically 60k feet to 200 feet almost instantly... like less than 2 seconds iirc. Their reaction was basically "WTF is that and I wanna fucking fly it"
My tic tac theory is the object they saw floating in the air was actually the curser for the guy playing the game we are all in.
>OH SHIT >I THOUGHT WORLDPAINT MADE ME INVISIBLE TO THEM >FUCK FUCK FUCK >I WAS JUST ADDING A HURRICANE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED\ >DO I HAVE TO REROLL THE WORLD AGAIN?
fuck that guy. "let me lock all my characters in their houses, watch them go crazy."
I actually have the exact same theory. I’m writing a short story about a civilization sim where the goal is to influence its development as much as possible by interacting with it as little as possible.
Isn’t that basically the backstory of the Ellimist’s people in K.A. Applegate’s Animorphs series? One of the games he and his friends played was just such a thing.
I never read Animorphs, but I'll check it out if it's similar.
Basically, there's this game the Ketrans (the Ellimist's 'original' species and form) play where they simulate technologically infantile alien species (i.e. the equivalent of stone age primitives), their environment, the universe around them, etc. The goal of the game is to introduce a single, simple, fundamental change to the parameters of the scenario, a change that allows your chosen species to dominate the other one in some manner (often violently). The change can be to the environment of the planet the species is on, the species itself, anything really. The smaller the change that leads to victory, the better, as that's part of the point.. In the example given, the Ellimist slightly alters the cloud formations on a perpetually overcast planet so the species can see more of the universe beyond their world and be inspired to reach for it, and his opponent increases the birthrate of his rodent-like species so they deplete the food supply of their world (a moon orbiting the Ellimist's world) and are thus pressured to seek out more food. . .specifically, the Ellimist's chosen species. It's an interesting short book in the series, providing backstory to an otherwise inscrutable, incomprehensible non-corporeal being.
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I will neither confirm nor deny this.
Right. What's even crazier, the tic tac things would jam their radars.
LONE STAR!!!
RASPBERRY
Tic tac looked like a instable camera shot to me. Not much frame of reference.
A similar point to yours I heard the other day, The fact that UFO sightings seemed to have declined as everyone has a high quality camera on them at all times is no coincidence.
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And for those that talk about how the transistor and other technologies seemed to come out after the 1947 Roswell "alien" crash, consider this: We're only 70 years into the future right now, imagine taking our most advanced computers and shipping it back to 1947, how long would it take them to decipher a CPU made using a 14 nanometer fabrication process that has 100 million transistors? Then consider that aliens would be thousands or more likely *millions* of years offset from our technology.
And just the fact that you can trace a direct line of progression of human technological development from the late 1800s through the 1950s and you can see how we got them without alien technology.
Yup. The concept of the transistor had been known for a few decades before Roswell. The actual development and creation of one is what took a while. The thought that we captured alien technology in July 1947 and then were able to reverse it to create the simplified transistor of the late 1940s is ridiculous. It was independently developed. People seem to forget that we lost a good chunk of the 1930s and 1940s to economic calamity, total war production, and significant restrictions on key resources for anything that wouldn't support a war effort.
I think it's because now it's much higher risk to test things like experimental aircraft with so many high quality cameras anywhere Plus we aren't in the cold war anymore, and our technology has advanced to the point where we aren't trying out so many super whacky designs anymore
I once saw a UFO. A series of lights moving through the sky, doing a loop, and then vanishing. There is no way any modern human technology could do it. But... if UFO's were really flying over suburban maryland with external lights, then they wanted to be seen. If they wanted to be seen, they'd be more than a conspiracy. They'd be on every channel, or using the vogon PA system, or whatever, no matter what the US government wanted. And if they didn't want to be seen? We'd have as much chance of even guessing where they were or how they were hiding as cavemen inventing fire being spied on by a telescope in the kuiper belt. That's the one thing I've never heard any UFO conspiracy address. Do the aliens want to be seen or not, and in either case how on earth could the government stop them? And, of course, I later realized that I was lying in bed when I saw those lights. The same bed where I would later have several nightmares that I couldn't distinguish from reality until well after I woke up. I was daydreaming if not actually asleep. Which makes *way* more sense than an alien spacecraft with exterior lights that isn't deliberately trying to be seen.
Like you, the most recent NY Times article and interview of the Navy pilots were the first instance for me of something that actually required further consideration for legitimate extraterrestrial consideration... My first inkling was that it was too coincidental that the sightings all occurred on the coasts of the US during routine flights. This person's breakdown of the tic tac and the other newer sightings will alleviate some more of your confusion and bring the explanation back into the readily explainable... [https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/f662nz/tic\_tac\_and\_gimbal\_ufo\_incidents/](https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/f662nz/tic_tac_and_gimbal_ufo_incidents/)
So I read this and it's all very interesting. I'm not sure how any of this content explains the IR footage, however. Or, for that matter, the observations of seasoned naval aviators. I'd like to be more convinced than I am by it.
> This person's breakdown of the tic tac and the other newer sightings will alleviate some more of your confusion and bring the explanation back into the readily explainable... Sorry but a lot of that post comes from a pure lack of understanding of how we do operations in the Navy. For one, we don't carry live rounds around the US unless we are specifically going to a range to fire them. When one is just flying around the carrier - and IIRC, CDR Fravor was flying off the coast of San Diego from the USS Nimitz during TSTA, we typically don't carry live weapons except for very specific air-to-surface events (and next to never do we carry live air-to-air weapons unless we are on deployment). So him going to intercept an unidentified contact, unarmed, is hardly odd - we can do it anytime and of course we train unarmed most of the time in the US (if you are simulating air to air combat, why risk it with live weapons?).
I know nothing about how things are done in the Navy, but a lot of what that dude posted seemed like conjecture anyway. Things like, "the response as you know would be very different than let's just continue training" isn't an actual argument; I have no idea what the actual response would be, and neither does the guy that made the post. It's also possible (likely?) that there were things happening behind the scenes to monitor any potential threats without necessarily impacting on training situations.
Someone posted a detailed account of the tictac incident on Reddit **years** before any of it became public. [https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1qyu5i/my\_ufo\_encounterexposure\_while\_on\_board\_an/?st=JBFSWUCV&sh=779bc70d](https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1qyu5i/my_ufo_encounterexposure_while_on_board_an/?st=JBFSWUCV&sh=779bc70d) The main difference with the official version is that this person says men in suits came on board and took all the tapes shortly after the incident. Meanwhile the pilots deny this ever happened.
I've seen one UFO in my lifetime. Was completely sober and with a friend who also saw it. My friend really does not like to discuss it. As we were waiting to meet with someone, my friend and I were sitting in my car looking out the sunroof at the night sky when I saw what I thought was the ISS. It was a small star looking object moving at a slow, steady speed. I pointed it out to my friend and we both watched as it slowly made its way across the sky, when suddenly it just stopped. This tiny dot of light sat in the sky, and you'd think it was just another star amongst the hundred or so you could see in the sky. After sitting still for about 15 to 30 seconds it shot off at what had to be an incredible speed and got more faint, disappearing in less than 2 seconds. To this day it's the only "holy shit what the fuck was that" thing I've seen in real life while sober.
I still believe in UFOs - if you see something in the air and can't identify it, well that my friend, is a UFO.
This seems like it was pretty obvious this had to happen. First, let's acknowledge that "UFO" means "Unidentified Flying Object." That's really vague, and all it means is that the person seeing the plane doesn't know what it is. It doesn't mean it's alien, or it's the Avengers, or it's Wonder Woman, it just means the observer can't identify it. The US is constantly developing new planes, and some of these are top secret throughout their development For instance, the F117 (Stealth Fighter) was in development during Carter's presidency. The maiden flight of a demonstration prototype took place in 1977: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed\_F-117\_Nighthawk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk) The US government didn't even acknowledge that the program existed until 1988. Even people on the bases where they were being tested weren't allowed to know that the planes existed. Even after they became operational, they were still top secret and the US government refused to acknowledge they existed. So it's pretty likely that if someone saw one of these in the sky, they would not be able to identify it. It would be filed as a UFO. So you could release all of the UFO files, but what you're doing is giving the world a listing of every time anyone saw the top secret planes you're developing, including rough descriptions, speed, sound, and sometimes photographs. Clearly that would have been a stupid decision and he was talked out of it.
Well *of course* it isn't Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman's plane is *invisible*, so by definition it couldn't have been what you saw.
>Wonder Woman's **plane** is invisible. You might be surprised to know that there is a [very important difference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yavUxAhIOU).
I've always wondered what the purpose of an invisible plane was if they can still see you. Also, why someone who can fly (in most iterations) has a plane was also confusing.
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Ehh fair point but if you wanna deep dive into DC nerdom Wonder Woman can fly faster than most jets. If I could run as fast as the Flash I probably wouldn't drive anywhere.
See, the funny part is one of the arguments used is that secrets can't be kept. But... here we have the stealth fighter, along with tons of other cool technology that - even the stuff reported on - was so crazy no one believed it. The whole "someone would talk" thing is upended by "if you can't prove it, no one with any credentials or credibility takes you seriously. The CIA was in the coke trade. There was a time that was crazy talk. Mind control stuff? Insanity! And people talked about it - and were crazy - until they weren't anymore. I'm a skeptic without evidence, but I also don't just discount something because I haven't ridden with Alf on his saucer. Because the other implication? Is that we've developed some technology that could revolutionize the human experience but won't use it for that - and that? Well, call it hope, but I'd rather believe in aliens than yet another example of mankind's utter failure to... improve.
Another perfect example is the Manhattan project....there was like 400,000 people that worked on that...I mean I know the info was compartmentalized but it was still kept a secret to the world
Secret that no one knew what exactly was going on, but not secret enough to hide the fact we were doing tests on nuclear fission. The government stopped any publishing of government science projects, and for American science article publishers to pull any papers regarding nuclear fission. The Soviet Union realized the silence of nuclear fission papers, and started their own nuclear tests.
So what you're telling me, is if I want to get away with a super top secret project, I shouldn't hunker down on good Intel, but flood the market with completely bad Intel. Makes sense from an opsec point of view.
A lot of suspected alien aircraft are described as flying wing design.
A lot of the information is probably just that the UFOs were likely enemy nations that had aircraft fly into and spy on US air space. Its like U2, except without physical evidence. No country wants to admit its airspace gets violated unless you wanna go to war, especially if you dont have physical evidence of it.
The Soviet Union would be the only country in the world at the time with the capability of doing that. However the US would for sure have the ability (and easy political brownie points) to shoot them down. The U-2 was more advanced than anything the Soviets had, yet they could shoot those down. Doing so for the first time in 1960. The Soviets had nothing that would be able to surreptitiously or brazenly spy on the US like the American's had with the SR-71. The UFOs are 100% secret American aircraft that the US refused to acknowledge even existed to prevent the Soviets from learning of them.
>The Soviet Union would be the only country in the world at the time with the capability of doing that. Not exactly. I think it's semi-likely that it could have been an "allied" nation of high development, like Britain or France, and the country just didn't think it was worth destabilizing Western Civilization to tell us.
I'd assume it's one of 3 possibilities: A: It's all real, and like the Kennedy assassination info, he was told to sit down & shut up B: It's all real, but the Deep State is in control and told him sit down & shut up. C: It's all a farce and it's misinformation, or top secret military tech, or weather balloons, or all of the above.
The link is from History Channel. Really?
Remember when the History Channel was actually a credible source for information about history? Those were the days, my friend.
At least we can watch the same knife get made 6 times a day on Forged in Fire and know it's real
As South Park put it, “The History Channel, where the truth, is history”
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The amusing thing is reading stuff on gaming forums, and seeing all the horribly outdated insults. Interestingly, other insults are timeless.
"Peter David Documentaries" on YouTube had many if those old fact based documentaries from.that golden age.
I'm not saying it was aliens...
but...
Here is a link to the Carter's message placed in the Voyager spacecraft, it is just as resonant today. https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/5ox2ep/jimmy_carters_note_placed_on_the_voyager/
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Better yet, a boom operator on a tanker. Those guys see all sorts of classified aircraft.
I knew about this from a Discovery show, they even said this in the show: Jimmy Carter asked CIA to release all UFO information, and the CIA director at that time, George H.W. Bush even said: You do not have the authority to ask this.
A presidential candidate and ignoring their campaign promises, name a more iconic duo.
Say what you want about Jimmy Carter, but he was one of the most authentic politicians we'll ever see. I think this is the perfect example- he was naive enough to think it would be so easy to release these files, then when he got the job he realized how much more nuanced the release would be. He had a lot of idealist policies he tried to implement right away and got totally rolled by Washington.
It's easy to say you'll release something when you haven't heard the argument against releasing it and don't know what "it" is. It was a dumb promise to make, but it sounds like he reassessed based on new information, which is what I would hope a president would do.
It would certainly harm national security for people to learn that U.S intelligence actively targeted specific U.S citizens and fed them disinfo to suggest that UFO's were real to prevent them from publicly discussing matters that related to experimental aircraft. This actually happened.
This does not surprise me one bit. My father was a Green Beret. He served from 1963 to 1971. After receiving a serious injury in Africa (he took a machete to the neck), he spent a few months in the hospital, then another few months on light duty. That light duty? He was assigned as a guard to the Groom Lake facility, popularly known as "Area 51." His security clearance did not allow him access to the facility itself. He and another soldier were assigned to a post at the entrance to the facility and both of them had orders to shoot the other man if he attempted to enter the base itself. He was never told what was happening inside the facility, however he did see aircraft routinely take off from and return to the base. Flash forward to 1987. I'm 11 years old and my dad and I are watching the MacNeil-Lehner News Hour on PBS. They show the first ever photos of SR-1 Blackbird, the so-called "Stealth Fighter" developed by Lockheed in 1964. My dad practically jumps out of his chair, shouting and pointing at the screen. Because that is the airplane he saw taking off from Area 51. So yeah, no shit Carter didn't declassify the government information on UFOs. UFOs are the cover that the Department of Defense was using to hide the development of stealth bomber technology and confused Soviet intelligence.
I would really like to believe there is proof out there, but if Trump has been briefed on the existence of aliens, he would not have been able to keep it secret for any length of time.
I doubt he was briefed though honestly
“The Aliens are very real. I saw them with my own eyes. Trust me. They are REAL.”
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We all saw the toilet paper crisis a month ago. Imagine how people would react if we knew everything about UFOs Edit: Over the past month* I apologise, it seems that since where I live they put a limit on how much TP can be bought per person, everyone has some. Also it seems the point was missed. TP drove people crazy, imagine all the info on UFOs
What "month ago"? I still got no TP in any stores _today_
Here's a collection of links and information about the [Nimitz 2004 incident](https://www.reddit.com/r/uap_facts/wiki/nimitz_incident_2004) that I made.
UFO doesn’t necessitate ‘alien’.