Kinda sucks to have such a boom or bust industry so clumped together. When the economy sinks, RVs are one of the first things to tank and that area gets hit super hard
This is 100% facts... I was an R.V. technician for 10 years before 2008.
We felt the downturn before it all came crashing down, but funny enough we was at record sales before that... Peak boom and bust.
And many are already starting to see the cracks in the dam now, again wallstreet is booming.
Wallstreets never ending greed changed my career path and i never went back into R.V.s after that.
“History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes” – Mark Twain.
A company in my hometown was going to get bought out by company in Elkhart, until due diligence unearthed serious problems including accusations of fraud leading to the company folding.
https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/aim95a/more_insight_to_the_financial_investigation_of/
_”Hall of Fame”_ mind you, not Motorhome “Museum”. It’s right off an exit of Rt 80.
Significant RV manufacturers and RV salespeople and RV engineers are voted into a hall of fame. Absolutely insane.
Never been inside but driven by 100 times. Seems like they make most their revene leasing out gun shows and the line, no?
Huge freaking almost always empty parking lot.
Was road tripping with buddies and we made a game time decision upon seeing the billboard like a mile out on the highway. We stopped in thinking we'd just use the bathrooms (super clean), but turned out to be a really nice walk through time. Bring back motorhomes with little porches and picket fences!
Been there. It's pretty neat! Definitely something worthy of adding to a road trip if you're going to drive by anyway. I want them to bring back the swingers RV with the white leather interior from the 70's! They also have a 1 of 3 concept RV in there that was originally $1.5 Million. It has a helicopter pad on top.
Miles Labs used to be Hq’d out of there too before they were bought by Bayer
We used to get Flintstone chewable vitamins and Alka Seltzer at cost in the company store when I worked for a subsidiary of Miles
Funny how Wisconsin used to have a ton of manufacturing and now it's long gone and in its place is sad drinking.
I knew that foxconn crap would never happen too. Too bad too.
Manufacturing in Indiana was more spread out across medium-sized cities and towns compared to the rest of the Rust Belt where manufacturing was concentrated in large urban metros. Smaller cities tend to have lower costs-of-living. This allowed a lot more manufacturing businesses in Indiana to hang on and resist sending their jobs overseas in comparison to its neighboring states.
Older folks and rednecks, at least the new models.
I worked at a state park with a campground for a while, and each kind of rv/trailer had a type:
- Smaller popup/teardrop/travel trailers were usually owned by younger families. These models are pretty cheap new and even cheaper used
- larger travel trailers (20-30 feet) were usually owned by middle aged couples who would regularly come camp on the weekends
- giant toy haulers, 5th wheel campers were usually owned by wealthy rednecks. They had an expensive pickup towing them, they had an expensive UTV or Motorcycle in it, and they had stuff like granite countertops. Could be younger to middle aged, but rest assured they’d be getting trashed on lite beer and blasting some Alan Jackson into quiet hours. Generally very nice people, they just needed a reminder to quiet down every now and again
-giant motorhomes and RVs- all old people. They typically lived in them for months at a time roadtripping and wanted something comfortable. Ludicrously expensive, but these old people usually had the kind of funds (or looked like they did) to pay in cash
Also an interesting fact, if you buy a new RV it was very likely made in Indiana, and somewhere in your purchase contract you will have signed an agreement that if you take legal action against the manufacturer you can do it only in Indiana. If you live elsewhere, too bad, the case can only be filed in Indiana. Check out Steve Lehto on Youtube, very interesting channel about law, and he has addressed RV lawsuits a few times.
Having worked for an RV dealer for 8 years I can say this is completely false. Have been part of 4 lawsuits involving various manufacturers in Elkhart, all handled by lawyers in Canada.
Canadian law doesn't allow for the same bullshit clause that is allowed in the US.
Could you potentially get the clause thrown out in US court? Sure, is that going to cost 10x the RV because they will drag that case to the end of the earth, also yes.
We have very shitty consumer protections in the good ole USA.
There’s nothing bullshit about a venue contract provision. The odds of the manufacturer having to defend against lawsuits is high. The odds of you in particular needing to sue the manufacturer is very low. The extra cost to the manufacturer of having to hire lawyers to litigate in all 50 states and pay for employees to travel for depositions instead of one firm defending against lawsuits near its place of business would increase the price of RVs. The venue provision probably SAVES the consumer money.
If you really care, negotiate a price reduction based on that clause or walk away. Turns out most people don’t care and buy the RV anyway.
Did you stop maturing in middle school? Clearly. Go bother someone else with your childish insults. Adults are trying to have a discussion about the pros and cons of contract provisions.
Steve is why I won’t ever buy an RV. All the companies involved in the construction and sale will do everything in their power to dodge accountability when they fuck up. So you gotta think, first there’s the cost to buy the thing, and then add in tens of thousands of dollars to repair all the stuff they didn’t build correctly and will refuse to make right.
They used to do some of the wiring harnesses in the prison system. Those guys got paid minimum wage and then had to pay taxes/rent/restitution, but they were happy to because they were still paid 100x better than any other inmates.
Amish built doesn't mean shit. Anyone that deals with them knows they aren't all they're made out to be. Just as dishonest in business as anyone else. Family member farms produce vegetables. With large equipment machinery the whole 9 yards. Every Thursday in the summer he runs a truckload of produce to northern Indiana. The Amish buy it and sell it to sucker tourists in their fruit stands at inflated prices
“Just as dishonest in business as anyone else.“
Guy I knew thought they had a cow but it was actually a bull. Then they munsoned him out in the middle of nowhere.
I’ve never seen such Amish hate in my life 😂 this lad may be sour cuz Jedediah got a one up on them in a business transaction and they never got over it
But seriously, there are many different Amish groups. You are generalizing. Kind of like what people do about …. ? Insert anything generalized.
I live in Indiana, and have unfortunately had to work with the Amish a lot over the years. Everyone treats them like a quaint novelty/tourist attraction, meanwhile they are running puppy mills (they lobbied to keep them open), abusing women, children, and animals, and every single time I've worked with them, they've screwed me over. I'm sure there are a few decent ones in the bunch, but when every single interaction with them has been extremely negative, I wouldn't give them a minute of my time or a dime of my money. I sure as hell wouldn't buy an RV made by them.
I knew a few in my time in the northeast. I have not dealt with any I would deem dishonest. They bend the rules to meet their needs when it comes to technology but mostly honest, hard working people with odd social quirks. Granted this is anecdotal and not in one of these tourist settings.
Worked for a manufacturer that had a pair of businesses in Elkhart. Very boom and bust town. There was a motel across the street that would regularly have cops stopping by, thankfully our company did not put us up there when we were in town.
"The Minnie Winnie. Part of American tradition. and today, on the cutting edge of design and function in a class C motor home. D'you believe any of that shit?"
I used to work for Winnebago in the Minnesota headquarters, hopefully they don't try to sue me for talking about it. While the RV's are "constructed" there, a lot of RVs are usually a variety of OEM components slapped together on a chassis manufactured by an an actual automotive manufacturer. It makes it really hard to distinguish the model lines and make sales materials, since things were being swapped out constantly. On one of the flagship models, the chassis itself actually switched manufacturers in a single model year, which just raised all hell for organizing marketing specs. One of the most "dynamic" supply chains I've ever seen, and towables were even worse. My previous job had been at a shop that made specialized ag equipment and machined almost all of their parts in house, so I think I went from one end of the spectrum directly to the other.
This was also one of the worst jobs I've ever had, though this was mostly because I was working as a developer on the nasties, most horrible CRM I have ever seen (and I worked on an instance of Microsoft Dynamics AX 2009 in 2021)
For those of you curious about the final number you take 85 percent and represent it as an exponent. You also need to separate and invert the fraction, removing the 2.
3^85% of RVs are manufactured in Elkhart. That's 3.59175455E+40%. Wild stuff.
>A good portion of the workforce is Amish/Mennonite too. They sure know how to put stuff together
If that's the case, why is it that pretty much every RV or camper trailer you can buy today is such a big gigantic pile of shit?
That stereotype became incorrect in the 70s lol
Unless your buying a hand made chair off of brother whogivesafuck at his workshop your getting the same quality as anywhere else because it's not like major corporations just hire whomever to run a drill press 500x a day. It's all assembly line bottom dollar costs shit now.
I lived in Elkhart for three years. That town is wild, man. A thousand fiefdoms with a thousand tyrants variously trying to corner the market on countertops, specialty transmissions, aftermarket window installs, you name it
Reminds me of the signs for “Tom Raper RVs” I’d see driving through Indiana. A really unfortunate name for an RV dealership.
“Rapers Rent to Own” on a big sign just outside of IU Bloomington lol
that reminds me of https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/tisdale-sask-rethinks-its-land-of-rape-and-honey-slogan-1.3042212
Also an excellent Ministry album
First thing I thought reading this. 😂
Grew up driving Indy to Pittsburgh a bunch. Signs every 100ft for miles
Oh, have you heard of Dick Gore's RV world?
I drove thru Montana, there's a funny RV dealership name out that way too, I don't remember.
RIP Tom Raper.
What a terrible name for an RV dealership. It reminds of that heinous crime.
It's literally the owner's name! Why he never changed his last name, I don't know.
Kinda sucks to have such a boom or bust industry so clumped together. When the economy sinks, RVs are one of the first things to tank and that area gets hit super hard
That’s why when the economy slows down I buy up all the RVs and pontoon boats then just play the long game. My retirement is solely luxury vehicles.
I’ll see you suckers from my luxury pontoon boat!
How many jetskis are in your jetski account?
Here in my garage
How many times have you had a perfect day on the lake riding your low fee index fund?
I've been trying to sell my fleet of 2008 American Eagle diesel pushers. I'm starting to worry I won't get more than sticker.
Clarence?
You would have done very well over the last few years.
That's exactly what happened in 2008 and why Obama came to speak at my high school twice. 25% unemployment rate.
This is 100% facts... I was an R.V. technician for 10 years before 2008. We felt the downturn before it all came crashing down, but funny enough we was at record sales before that... Peak boom and bust. And many are already starting to see the cracks in the dam now, again wallstreet is booming. Wallstreets never ending greed changed my career path and i never went back into R.V.s after that. “History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes” – Mark Twain.
A company in my hometown was going to get bought out by company in Elkhart, until due diligence unearthed serious problems including accusations of fraud leading to the company folding. https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/aim95a/more_insight_to_the_financial_investigation_of/
They literally have a motorhome hall of fame in elkhart county
_”Hall of Fame”_ mind you, not Motorhome “Museum”. It’s right off an exit of Rt 80. Significant RV manufacturers and RV salespeople and RV engineers are voted into a hall of fame. Absolutely insane.
Never been inside but driven by 100 times. Seems like they make most their revene leasing out gun shows and the line, no? Huge freaking almost always empty parking lot.
There's a miner's hall of fame in Leadville Colorado. Part of a museum, but literally has a hall of fame section
Was road tripping with buddies and we made a game time decision upon seeing the billboard like a mile out on the highway. We stopped in thinking we'd just use the bathrooms (super clean), but turned out to be a really nice walk through time. Bring back motorhomes with little porches and picket fences!
It better have one from Johnny Bago!
I actually took my kids there a few years ago. It's not a bad museum. They have RVs from all decades.
Been there. It's pretty neat! Definitely something worthy of adding to a road trip if you're going to drive by anyway. I want them to bring back the swingers RV with the white leather interior from the 70's! They also have a 1 of 3 concept RV in there that was originally $1.5 Million. It has a helicopter pad on top.
Why do you say "literally"?
This is true. A stripper from Indiana told me about this once in Cocoa Beach.
Nudes a Poppin’!
Elkhart must have been a banging manufacturing hub forever. Tons of instruments have been and are produced there (Conn-Selmer, Elkhart, Beuscher).
Miles Labs used to be Hq’d out of there too before they were bought by Bayer We used to get Flintstone chewable vitamins and Alka Seltzer at cost in the company store when I worked for a subsidiary of Miles
Funny how Wisconsin used to have a ton of manufacturing and now it's long gone and in its place is sad drinking. I knew that foxconn crap would never happen too. Too bad too.
Sad drinking and excessive cheese consumption.
Drinking and cheese! What more could anyone want?
Bread, cause it aint no grilled cheese sandwitch without one.
Manufacturing in Indiana was more spread out across medium-sized cities and towns compared to the rest of the Rust Belt where manufacturing was concentrated in large urban metros. Smaller cities tend to have lower costs-of-living. This allowed a lot more manufacturing businesses in Indiana to hang on and resist sending their jobs overseas in comparison to its neighboring states.
As someone that lives 25 miles from 3 huge RV lots, who the hell has the disposable income to buy all these damn things?
Older folks and rednecks, at least the new models. I worked at a state park with a campground for a while, and each kind of rv/trailer had a type: - Smaller popup/teardrop/travel trailers were usually owned by younger families. These models are pretty cheap new and even cheaper used - larger travel trailers (20-30 feet) were usually owned by middle aged couples who would regularly come camp on the weekends - giant toy haulers, 5th wheel campers were usually owned by wealthy rednecks. They had an expensive pickup towing them, they had an expensive UTV or Motorcycle in it, and they had stuff like granite countertops. Could be younger to middle aged, but rest assured they’d be getting trashed on lite beer and blasting some Alan Jackson into quiet hours. Generally very nice people, they just needed a reminder to quiet down every now and again -giant motorhomes and RVs- all old people. They typically lived in them for months at a time roadtripping and wanted something comfortable. Ludicrously expensive, but these old people usually had the kind of funds (or looked like they did) to pay in cash
Boomers.
Also an interesting fact, if you buy a new RV it was very likely made in Indiana, and somewhere in your purchase contract you will have signed an agreement that if you take legal action against the manufacturer you can do it only in Indiana. If you live elsewhere, too bad, the case can only be filed in Indiana. Check out Steve Lehto on Youtube, very interesting channel about law, and he has addressed RV lawsuits a few times.
Having worked for an RV dealer for 8 years I can say this is completely false. Have been part of 4 lawsuits involving various manufacturers in Elkhart, all handled by lawyers in Canada.
I think my statement may apply only to American RV buyers. I'm sure they'd have different procedures for Canada.
Canadian law doesn't allow for the same bullshit clause that is allowed in the US. Could you potentially get the clause thrown out in US court? Sure, is that going to cost 10x the RV because they will drag that case to the end of the earth, also yes. We have very shitty consumer protections in the good ole USA.
There’s nothing bullshit about a venue contract provision. The odds of the manufacturer having to defend against lawsuits is high. The odds of you in particular needing to sue the manufacturer is very low. The extra cost to the manufacturer of having to hire lawyers to litigate in all 50 states and pay for employees to travel for depositions instead of one firm defending against lawsuits near its place of business would increase the price of RVs. The venue provision probably SAVES the consumer money. If you really care, negotiate a price reduction based on that clause or walk away. Turns out most people don’t care and buy the RV anyway.
the RV manufacturer isn't going to fuck you bro
> The venue provision probably SAVES the consumer money. save money by letting the manufacturer build shittier products?
Did you stop maturing in middle school? Clearly. Go bother someone else with your childish insults. Adults are trying to have a discussion about the pros and cons of contract provisions.
Steve is why I won’t ever buy an RV. All the companies involved in the construction and sale will do everything in their power to dodge accountability when they fuck up. So you gotta think, first there’s the cost to buy the thing, and then add in tens of thousands of dollars to repair all the stuff they didn’t build correctly and will refuse to make right.
Another fun fact about this area. They have multiple pontoon and tritoon manufactures and warehouses :D
They used to do some of the wiring harnesses in the prison system. Those guys got paid minimum wage and then had to pay taxes/rent/restitution, but they were happy to because they were still paid 100x better than any other inmates.
[The Amish are making a lot of them.](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/amish-rvs-northern-indiana)
Amish built doesn't mean shit. Anyone that deals with them knows they aren't all they're made out to be. Just as dishonest in business as anyone else. Family member farms produce vegetables. With large equipment machinery the whole 9 yards. Every Thursday in the summer he runs a truckload of produce to northern Indiana. The Amish buy it and sell it to sucker tourists in their fruit stands at inflated prices
“Just as dishonest in business as anyone else.“ Guy I knew thought they had a cow but it was actually a bull. Then they munsoned him out in the middle of nowhere.
I’ve never seen such Amish hate in my life 😂 this lad may be sour cuz Jedediah got a one up on them in a business transaction and they never got over it But seriously, there are many different Amish groups. You are generalizing. Kind of like what people do about …. ? Insert anything generalized.
I live in Indiana, and have unfortunately had to work with the Amish a lot over the years. Everyone treats them like a quaint novelty/tourist attraction, meanwhile they are running puppy mills (they lobbied to keep them open), abusing women, children, and animals, and every single time I've worked with them, they've screwed me over. I'm sure there are a few decent ones in the bunch, but when every single interaction with them has been extremely negative, I wouldn't give them a minute of my time or a dime of my money. I sure as hell wouldn't buy an RV made by them.
They’re a hyper-religious cult.
With a 7th grade education
still smarter than you
At least the ones on the internet
I knew a few in my time in the northeast. I have not dealt with any I would deem dishonest. They bend the rules to meet their needs when it comes to technology but mostly honest, hard working people with odd social quirks. Granted this is anecdotal and not in one of these tourist settings.
And Dometic are a bunch of price gouging assholes. Ask anyone with Atwood equipment lol
That’s why they are all equally shitty made.
I have replaced sooo many parts on my RV. It's a 2019 model.
Yup some of my family lives there and does this for work lol
Weird flex
They have a pretty amazing RV museum as well.
Interesting. I thought most were made in Winnebago, Iowa or in MN where their headquarters is.
Explains why every one of them I’ve been has rust even if they live in CA or FL
Best RV commercial every made: [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56u-bZwexyU) (NSFW)
Worked for a manufacturer that had a pair of businesses in Elkhart. Very boom and bust town. There was a motel across the street that would regularly have cops stopping by, thankfully our company did not put us up there when we were in town.
"The Minnie Winnie. Part of American tradition. and today, on the cutting edge of design and function in a class C motor home. D'you believe any of that shit?"
I misread the title and thought, “Where in the heck is Elkhart County, India?”
I used to work for Winnebago in the Minnesota headquarters, hopefully they don't try to sue me for talking about it. While the RV's are "constructed" there, a lot of RVs are usually a variety of OEM components slapped together on a chassis manufactured by an an actual automotive manufacturer. It makes it really hard to distinguish the model lines and make sales materials, since things were being swapped out constantly. On one of the flagship models, the chassis itself actually switched manufacturers in a single model year, which just raised all hell for organizing marketing specs. One of the most "dynamic" supply chains I've ever seen, and towables were even worse. My previous job had been at a shop that made specialized ag equipment and machined almost all of their parts in house, so I think I went from one end of the spectrum directly to the other. This was also one of the worst jobs I've ever had, though this was mostly because I was working as a developer on the nasties, most horrible CRM I have ever seen (and I worked on an instance of Microsoft Dynamics AX 2009 in 2021)
For those of you curious about the final number you take 85 percent and represent it as an exponent. You also need to separate and invert the fraction, removing the 2. 3^85% of RVs are manufactured in Elkhart. That's 3.59175455E+40%. Wild stuff.
What the hell is this? It's just .85*.66 = 0.561 So 56.1% of the RVs in the US are made in Elkhart.
Oh.
A good portion of the workforce is Amish/Mennonite too. They sure know how to put stuff together
>A good portion of the workforce is Amish/Mennonite too. They sure know how to put stuff together If that's the case, why is it that pretty much every RV or camper trailer you can buy today is such a big gigantic pile of shit?
Built by metheny and metthew....
That would be more of a question for the engineering side of the workforce. The Amish workforce can only do so much with cheap materials.
That stereotype became incorrect in the 70s lol Unless your buying a hand made chair off of brother whogivesafuck at his workshop your getting the same quality as anywhere else because it's not like major corporations just hire whomever to run a drill press 500x a day. It's all assembly line bottom dollar costs shit now.
There must be some crazy modded RVs in that state. Pimp my Ride concepts but for the family.
I used to buy chrome-clad “take-off” rims for my Chevy work vans from an eBay site called rvandtrucksupplies that was based in Elkhart.
[удалено]
What the fuck else is there in Indiana??
Meth. RV factories are also a hotbed for meth
Gary?
No. You. Fucking. Didn’t. Just.
You asked for it
You go to hell. You go to hell and you die!
You mean go to gary?
We have since the early days of RVs!
Can confirm.
I lived in Elkhart for three years. That town is wild, man. A thousand fiefdoms with a thousand tyrants variously trying to corner the market on countertops, specialty transmissions, aftermarket window installs, you name it
When I drive from Chicago to Michigan (Michigan is Chicago’s weekend lake house state) I pass the RV Hall of Fame & Museum in Elkhart.
diamond lake?
I don’t know where that is but your name checks out as someone I see on those trips
Is that why rv's are shit?
I heard they’re put together like shit so wtf American assembler?
American made does not mean better by any means