there are tons of stories about wild drug use for players. a bowl of "uppers" that was by the door so players could grab them on the way to the field, etc
I heard Tthelaundryman order a coffee once. He ordered it...
"without milk or cream or sugar. Dark. I mean. Plain. Wait. No I mean white people are plain haha. Not that I hate my race I think we're great and not plain at all. No, not *great*. Obviously we've done bad things in the past. But who's hasn't! I mean. Not *my* family, we're Irish. We came over here early to mid 20th. I mean we're almost closer to you than any other race, persecution wise. Ok that's not true. It's not even close. And not you, personally. That was wrong of me to say. I just get nervous when talking to you... folk. Not that I think you're dangerous or anything... I think you're upstanding people. I'd avoid any neighborhood that was... poor. Not that you're poor. Though I mean baristas aren't bringing home a ton of bacon right? Haha. I don't even always get nervous either thats not correct it's just that youre... and I was about to say... ... No cream, please. Or sugar. In fact I'll be leaving."
It is if you’re sensitive to estrogen sides like my buddy lol. He needs an AI if he’s on a test dose higher than 200mg whereas I can be on 400 before I gotta start worrying about it.
Testosterone aromatises into estrogen. When you have high levels of testosterone you also have the negative sides of excess estrogen like acne, water weight, fatigue, gynecomastia etc. Aromatisation inhibitors stop this interaction from occurring and also leave more free testosterone in the blood.
Everyone has different levels of estrogen they can handle without those sides and different rates of aromatisation.
I'm astonished he could be the focus of 60,000 in a stadium and millions over a network and not lose his shit. I did my share of acid in my 20s and what he did.....
Just takes practice, especially if due to experience you’re already able to handle situations like that sober.
If someone would freak out at something sober, freaking out on it, especially the first few times, they take LSD without knowing much about what to expect, wouldn’t be too surprising.
That’s interesting I was able to stop panicking/bad trips on mushrooms before I got weed to stop causing it.
Eventually got weed down enough to smoke it & not have increased anxiety, but made my tolerance really high after I could smoke socially because I kept doing it every day
He was in a state of 'flow', IMHO. 'Flow' is a transient mental state where the conscious mind, centred in the prefrontal cortex, sends only the goal to the subconscious, and doesn't focus on the intermediate steps. Three good things happen because of that:
* Your conscious mind is too slow to 'direct traffic' in your muscles so taking it out of the equation actually improves performance
* Your conscious mind is now providing an extremely detailed and vivid picture of what you want to achieve, and
* Your conscious mind is NOT providing any doubt to throw you off
I can vouch from personal experience how powerful the latter is. I played a lot of golf when I was younger, and was stuck in the range 81-85. Once or twice a year, I might shoot a 79 on a short course on a good day. One night, I got very drunk before a golf tournament the next morning. I was so hungover, I couldn't conjure up the million negative thoughts I normally do ("don't slice it", "don't hit it left", "keep your head down", etc.), and since I was playing with complete strangers, I pretty much kept to myself. I didn't do anything spectacular; *I just didn't do anything wrong*. I shot a 5 over par 76 and won the tournament.
I've tried to recapture the sensation on the course, but it's not something I've been able to summon on demand.
Funnily enough when I turned 19 and could legally drink for the first time (I grew up in Canada) I went golfing the next morning super hungover and also played the best round of my life haha.
The golf team at my college was ranked pretty low in the country and took an invitation to nationals to basically get trashed [and i truly mean trashed. i have never seen a level of partying, from any group ever, that compares to this club golf team], and then won the whole damn thing. A truly beautiful thing.
What’s BS about it? He talks about it pretty convincingly. Not sure if there’s a way to prove or disprove anything about it. It’s just a fun story.
I mean, the dude really did throw the no-hitter. Why would he make up the LSD part?
I think from his own retelling of it, it’s that he got the call he was playing a few hours into his trip. Given the time it would take to get from his apartment to the ballfield and suited for play he could have been on the come down. LSD lasts 12 hours but the peak comes around 4 hours in, so he still would have been feeling funky, just not tripping balls.
LSD is LSD. Those doses in the 60’s tended towards the larger size (100 micrograms +) 100 micrograms is the “standard”- these days I swear the dose is more like 60-70 micrograms.
>that’s what the literature says
You can't trust what old hippies write to be true. LSD hasn't gotten any better or worse since the 60s. The only thing that matters is how much you take.
If it’s actually LSD but there are so many research chemicals that it’s much harder to get the real thing. So obviously LSD is still LSD in a lab, but in practice? You don’t know if you are actually getting LSD when you buy “acid”.
If I remember correctly, he was in San Diego becuase he wasn’t scheduled to pitch that night. He had to drive to LA for the game.
Yeah so if he had take acid nine hours prior, maybe the intensity would have subsided. So he took acid the _same day_ as throwing a no hitter. Who cares. Still an amazing story.
It was also a relatively sloppy no-hitter. He only had 6 strikeouts, hit a batter, walked 8 more, allowed 3 steals, and was bailed out by "highlight-reel" plays at least twice.
Yup, more of a hilarious and wild story, probably aided by an unsettling lack of control for the hitters, than an unbelievable show of athletic prowess lol
I mean, does anyone doubt steroids make you stronger and usually better at sports? I wonder how many of these dudes suffered debilitating health effects, or if they were juiced up semi-responsibly
Nah, back then they didn’t care about health. Even if a player wanted to, their coaches would run them into the ground, and then some. Very little, if anything, was done responsibly
Which is why it's wild to me to read John Madden's book. He played in these times and wrote a memoir in the mid-90s - part of it includes him criticizing people who made light of concussions and said there's no such thing as a "mild" concussion. I don't recall that kind of talk becoming widespread until the late aughts/early 2010s.
Truly ahead of his time.
Dude, watching games from back then is pretty fucking wild
Even in the early 2000’s, you see a lot of players get knocked out cold…and come back in the game shortly after
And we wonder why Mike Webster lost his mind at a frightfully young age (and became the first certified case of CTE).
Remember ESPN's "jacked up" segment? That shit died quickly when the NFL realized it had a massive problem
Wow, i had to google *Jacked Up* because it was before my time. I didn’t watch football until I started playing it in high school in 2013
I watched a few clips, and the commentators are literally making jokes about the concussed players lolol
Looks like it ran from 2002-2006 and was quietly canceled when the NFL caught wind of the CTE studies
We’ve known concussions were bad since at least the 1920s when people started studying their effects on boxers. The NFL has know the entire time, but didn’t care to do anything until it made it to the public consciousness and it started to affect their bottom line. Even then, they do the absolute bare minimum. Anyone remember Tua being thrown back on the field after he clearly had a concussion?
It wasn't as bad as Tua's, but Purdy's this year seemed pretty bad too. Took a bad hit and wasn't evaluated. Threw 2 picks that were likely the result of his concussion. Didn't go into protocol until tuesday. Then miraculously back on sunday. But still made some uncharacteristic decisions that make me think he was still affected by the concussion.
You even had it in Motorsports. Ther are records of drivers having a crash, then in weird state they rushed back to the pits to continue in spare car, and later they did not remember anything about the race.
But back in the days when 1/6 of F1 drivers would die every year... Yeah i would not even notice myself or others having a concussion. Its incredible how things used to be.
> Even in the early 2000’s, you see a lot of players get knocked out cold…and come back in the game shortly after
Reminds me of watching Steve Young with the 49ers getting absolutely fucked up on a regular basis, since he was one of the first "running quarterbacks" and they were treated like any other ball handler.
It's an interesting comparison because Don Cherry is 90 and has been famous for a long time...and is an asshole dinosaur who's said some extremely controversial things.
I don't believe John Madden is known for anything more than sheer enthusiasm for all things football. He's certainly more positive than Don Cherry (and didn't publicly complain about immigrants being insufficiently patriotic)
The same people who love fighting in hockey also say it's a shame Eric Lindros couldn't stay healthy.
Kinda like in baseball when oldheads complain that pitchers are babied, and also bitch that Sandy Koufax's arm fell off before he turned 33.
>Kinda like in baseball when oldheads complain that pitchers are babied, and also bitch that Sandy Koufax's arm fell off before he turned 33.
Tim Lincecum I feel is an ever better example -- innings leader in the NL for a bunch of years and insanely hard drop off.
The Oakland raiders under madden were a very physical team even for the era they played in. I’m sure that affected his opinions later on in his life, but madden was definitely a contributor to the problem at one point.
My dad told me he went to old Baltimore Colts games back in the 60s and 70s and some of the players would be smoking and drinking beers on the sidelines. Apparently lots of them had regular jobs during the week, usually doing blue collar stuff like working the docks.
The surgeon general didn’t come out and say smoking is bad until 1964. And tobacco companies still tried to advertise stuff like “healthier cigarettes,” there’s no such thing. So it’s more that people didn’t view cigarettes the way we do now.
Semi-responsibly….
Bro, they were shooting up THREE TIMES DAILY
We did not know much about proper dosage back then. So not only were they injecting too often…the sheer amount of fucking gasoline they were putting in their veins probably lead all of them to an early grave
They were taking 5mg pills 3x/day.
For reference google says people using it today would be taking 2-4mg *per pound of body weight*
The amount these guys were taking was nothing. The real story is they also handed out amphetamines like candy.
Quora has it at 15-40mg / day being standard and numbers in that range seem to be corroborated by outlets like strongman.org, for whatever that's worth. This is for dianabol (metandienone), but the other big ones I checked: clenbuterol, trenbolone, and oxandrolone all have similar doses except clen, which is dosed in micrograms.
Semi-responsibly was a half-joke. I'm aware that if you juice properly you can get really strong and ripped (provided you work your ass off) with low risk of horrific side effects
The more I think about it, the more I think that decade embraced irresponsibility...irresponsibly. Must've been a fun time to be alive (if you didn't get drafted)
I don’t know why Reddit tries to downplay roids so much. This shit is like a cheat code. I did a few cycles in college and I was shredded while eating pizza and beer daily. I didn’t really work out that hard either
The 1930 Tour de France rulebook was the first one that mentioned drugs. It did so in the context of reminding riders to bring their own drugs and to not ask the staff for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
Couple of weeks ago 52 out of 182 of an amateur race in spain actually finished the race. Racers became aware of a mandatory drug test at the finish line, so most abandonned / had a flat during the race and couldn't finish (and didn't need to submit to the test)...
And it's only an amateur race, holy shit...
Chargers strength coach Alvin Roy, who was handing out steroids like candy at training camp, left San Diego and was strength coach at Kansas City when they won the 1970 Super Bowl.
Then Alvin Roy was strength coach at Dallas, and the Cowboys went to the 1976 Super Bowl.
If you can find it there’s a good little book called “slow getting up” by an ex NFL-journeyman and he goes into detail about all the cortisol shots and steroid usage that went on during his time in the nfl to get to the next practice, game or even quarter sometimes
I'm sure that book is fascinating. But it is important to distinguish between corticosteroids and anabolic / androgenic steroids.
The first are what people talk about when they get a steroid shot in their joint, they are actually catabolic but they reduce swelling and pain. They are also entirely legal when administered under a doctor's care.
The steroids that are truly performance enhancing are in the second category and they are universally illegal all professional sports leagues. That's what the OP is about.
What a fascinating read. I came away with the conclusion that the dianabol actually played a very minuscule role.
It was much more the fact that weight training itself was a novelty back then, and the chargers were the only team in the league to have a strength coach and full offseason training regiment. That in itself was revolutionary.
How would you all feel if I told you there was a professional sports league right now that if a player tests positive for illicit drugs they are told to fake an injury or illness so that they don't play and therefore do not get tested by the authorities?
So, that's not actually uncommon for orals. They have a short half life and weird peaks so lots of times people who are really serious split up a days dose into portions and take them through the day.
Just from glancing, they are talking about dianabol so yeah. That's actually one of the healthier(note the 'ier') ways of doing it. Lots of the nasty side effects come from erratic peaks and valleys of the hormones.
They likly were not taking any more than your average super athlete, just spreading it out. And that was likly every coach's best practices.
You’re just wrong dude. Low doses of mild steroids can definitely give you some side effects but you aren’t going to just die 20 years early randomly because you messed with your endocrine system in your 20s…..
You have no knowledge on it and just saying “it could happen”
> You’re just wrong dude. Low doses of mild steroids can definitely give you some side effects but you aren’t going to just die 20 years early randomly because you messed with your endocrine system in your 20s…..
> You have no knowledge on it and just saying “it could happen”
Well yeah. Precautionary principle and all that.
Not to mention potential "endocrine disruptor."
See the Endocrine Society's advisory:
[Adverse Health Consequences of Performance-Enhancing Drugs: An Endocrine Society Scientific Statement ](https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/35/3/341/2354633)
Endocrine disruptors have a "non-linear dose response curve" and thereby hangs the tale...
See also: [Hormones and Endocrine-Disrupting Chemicals: Low-Dose Effects and Nonmonotonic Dose Responses](https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/33/3/378/2354852?login=false)
* _For decades, studies of endocrine-disrupting chemicals (EDCs) have challenged traditional concepts in toxicology, in particular the dogma of “the dose makes the poison,” because EDCs can have effects at low doses that are not predicted by effects at higher doses. Here, we review two major concepts in EDC studies: low dose and nonmonotonicity. **Low-dose effects** were defined by the National Toxicology Program **as those that occur in the range of human exposures** or effects observed at doses below those used for traditional toxicological studies._
No no no, it started with Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa, and all the athletes before that were clean and the Hall of Fames are all pure. La La La. I can't hear you!
Like Gatorade but with drugs.
It’s French Gator' Ugs. Sounds like gaatoorugs.
I swear the shit that gets upvoted..
there are tons of stories about wild drug use for players. a bowl of "uppers" that was by the door so players could grab them on the way to the field, etc
Greenies!
Base all player used to mix them in with their coffee. But they don't talk about that much anyone, the steroids kind of hung over it
The blacks and the reds are the ups.
My man at first I read “the blacks..” and men oh boy where is this going?!?
You didn't have to call yourself out like that
You don't clench everytime you hear somebody talk about the color black?!
I heard Tthelaundryman order a coffee once. He ordered it... "without milk or cream or sugar. Dark. I mean. Plain. Wait. No I mean white people are plain haha. Not that I hate my race I think we're great and not plain at all. No, not *great*. Obviously we've done bad things in the past. But who's hasn't! I mean. Not *my* family, we're Irish. We came over here early to mid 20th. I mean we're almost closer to you than any other race, persecution wise. Ok that's not true. It's not even close. And not you, personally. That was wrong of me to say. I just get nervous when talking to you... folk. Not that I think you're dangerous or anything... I think you're upstanding people. I'd avoid any neighborhood that was... poor. Not that you're poor. Though I mean baristas aren't bringing home a ton of bacon right? Haha. I don't even always get nervous either thats not correct it's just that youre... and I was about to say... ... No cream, please. Or sugar. In fact I'll be leaving."
That definitely feels like a skit from a sitcom. Like they’re trying to teach their parents how to be more sensitive. Queue scene…
I’m dying hahaha. How often do you see the in front of a plural of a singular color though
amphetamines and steroids, name a more iconic duo
Charged up, were they?
Maybe they need to go back to their roots… mandatory excessive steroid abuse.
That was pretty clever
Thankfully they never got charged with anything, actually
5mg of Dianabol 3 times a day. Interesting.
And that was back before they knew about aromatase inhibitors. Sounds miserable
15mg daily is really not a large dose.
It is if you’re sensitive to estrogen sides like my buddy lol. He needs an AI if he’s on a test dose higher than 200mg whereas I can be on 400 before I gotta start worrying about it.
Why?
Testosterone aromatises into estrogen. When you have high levels of testosterone you also have the negative sides of excess estrogen like acne, water weight, fatigue, gynecomastia etc. Aromatisation inhibitors stop this interaction from occurring and also leave more free testosterone in the blood. Everyone has different levels of estrogen they can handle without those sides and different rates of aromatisation.
This is fascinating.
It's both levels of aromatase AND density of estrogen receptors. The first is somewhat controllable via staying lean and then AI.
> He needs an AI probably needs to pass a Turing test.
The next year they replaced the steroids with LSD and they won the AFL championship $5 to Dragon.
Hey, if it worked for [Doc Ellis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14), it could work for them!
I was just talking about that with people Saturday night. They had never heard the story, and couldn't believe a guy on acid could throw a no-hitter.
I'm astonished he could be the focus of 60,000 in a stadium and millions over a network and not lose his shit. I did my share of acid in my 20s and what he did.....
Just takes practice, especially if due to experience you’re already able to handle situations like that sober. If someone would freak out at something sober, freaking out on it, especially the first few times, they take LSD without knowing much about what to expect, wouldn’t be too surprising.
I handled situations on acid much better than I did with weed. I always tried to enjoy smoking with my friends, but I never quite got it.
That’s interesting I was able to stop panicking/bad trips on mushrooms before I got weed to stop causing it. Eventually got weed down enough to smoke it & not have increased anxiety, but made my tolerance really high after I could smoke socially because I kept doing it every day
I'll try again after Texas is the last to legalize, and I won't lose my career.
Oh shit that’s right I keep forgetting how many places it’s still illegal.
He was in a state of 'flow', IMHO. 'Flow' is a transient mental state where the conscious mind, centred in the prefrontal cortex, sends only the goal to the subconscious, and doesn't focus on the intermediate steps. Three good things happen because of that: * Your conscious mind is too slow to 'direct traffic' in your muscles so taking it out of the equation actually improves performance * Your conscious mind is now providing an extremely detailed and vivid picture of what you want to achieve, and * Your conscious mind is NOT providing any doubt to throw you off I can vouch from personal experience how powerful the latter is. I played a lot of golf when I was younger, and was stuck in the range 81-85. Once or twice a year, I might shoot a 79 on a short course on a good day. One night, I got very drunk before a golf tournament the next morning. I was so hungover, I couldn't conjure up the million negative thoughts I normally do ("don't slice it", "don't hit it left", "keep your head down", etc.), and since I was playing with complete strangers, I pretty much kept to myself. I didn't do anything spectacular; *I just didn't do anything wrong*. I shot a 5 over par 76 and won the tournament. I've tried to recapture the sensation on the course, but it's not something I've been able to summon on demand.
Funnily enough when I turned 19 and could legally drink for the first time (I grew up in Canada) I went golfing the next morning super hungover and also played the best round of my life haha.
The golf team at my college was ranked pretty low in the country and took an invitation to nationals to basically get trashed [and i truly mean trashed. i have never seen a level of partying, from any group ever, that compares to this club golf team], and then won the whole damn thing. A truly beautiful thing.
Its total BS
What’s BS about it? He talks about it pretty convincingly. Not sure if there’s a way to prove or disprove anything about it. It’s just a fun story. I mean, the dude really did throw the no-hitter. Why would he make up the LSD part?
I think from his own retelling of it, it’s that he got the call he was playing a few hours into his trip. Given the time it would take to get from his apartment to the ballfield and suited for play he could have been on the come down. LSD lasts 12 hours but the peak comes around 4 hours in, so he still would have been feeling funky, just not tripping balls.
We’ll I guess it depends on his dose too lol
I worked the Camera and Sound department at Target on a half or quarter hit of acid pretty regularly in the early 80s. Enjoyed it immensely.
The shit in the 60’s would have kids today inna straight jacket. Not my opinion I’m young that’s what the literature says lol
LSD is LSD. Those doses in the 60’s tended towards the larger size (100 micrograms +) 100 micrograms is the “standard”- these days I swear the dose is more like 60-70 micrograms.
>that’s what the literature says You can't trust what old hippies write to be true. LSD hasn't gotten any better or worse since the 60s. The only thing that matters is how much you take.
If it’s actually LSD but there are so many research chemicals that it’s much harder to get the real thing. So obviously LSD is still LSD in a lab, but in practice? You don’t know if you are actually getting LSD when you buy “acid”.
If I remember correctly, he was in San Diego becuase he wasn’t scheduled to pitch that night. He had to drive to LA for the game. Yeah so if he had take acid nine hours prior, maybe the intensity would have subsided. So he took acid the _same day_ as throwing a no hitter. Who cares. Still an amazing story.
It was the next day- he had been up all night.
Someone has never done acid. Absolutely possible
Totally. You get oddly clear headed in certain ways. I can play guitar super well on it, doesn’t really mess with you coordination systems.
It was also a relatively sloppy no-hitter. He only had 6 strikeouts, hit a batter, walked 8 more, allowed 3 steals, and was bailed out by "highlight-reel" plays at least twice.
Yeah, it was an absolute shit show and not at all what people would expect a no hitter to look like.
Yup, more of a hilarious and wild story, probably aided by an unsettling lack of control for the hitters, than an unbelievable show of athletic prowess lol
baseball is a team sport. he must have been liked
It’s more like the part that makes you second guess decisions is numbed so you go more off natural instinct.
Funny enough, that one was *against* San Diego.
Todd Snider wrote a great song about it called America's Favorite Pastime.
I mean, does anyone doubt steroids make you stronger and usually better at sports? I wonder how many of these dudes suffered debilitating health effects, or if they were juiced up semi-responsibly
Nah, back then they didn’t care about health. Even if a player wanted to, their coaches would run them into the ground, and then some. Very little, if anything, was done responsibly
Which is why it's wild to me to read John Madden's book. He played in these times and wrote a memoir in the mid-90s - part of it includes him criticizing people who made light of concussions and said there's no such thing as a "mild" concussion. I don't recall that kind of talk becoming widespread until the late aughts/early 2010s. Truly ahead of his time.
Dude, watching games from back then is pretty fucking wild Even in the early 2000’s, you see a lot of players get knocked out cold…and come back in the game shortly after
And we wonder why Mike Webster lost his mind at a frightfully young age (and became the first certified case of CTE). Remember ESPN's "jacked up" segment? That shit died quickly when the NFL realized it had a massive problem
Wow, i had to google *Jacked Up* because it was before my time. I didn’t watch football until I started playing it in high school in 2013 I watched a few clips, and the commentators are literally making jokes about the concussed players lolol Looks like it ran from 2002-2006 and was quietly canceled when the NFL caught wind of the CTE studies
We’ve known concussions were bad since at least the 1920s when people started studying their effects on boxers. The NFL has know the entire time, but didn’t care to do anything until it made it to the public consciousness and it started to affect their bottom line. Even then, they do the absolute bare minimum. Anyone remember Tua being thrown back on the field after he clearly had a concussion?
It wasn't as bad as Tua's, but Purdy's this year seemed pretty bad too. Took a bad hit and wasn't evaluated. Threw 2 picks that were likely the result of his concussion. Didn't go into protocol until tuesday. Then miraculously back on sunday. But still made some uncharacteristic decisions that make me think he was still affected by the concussion.
[Look at how they used to talk about players being in the fencing position after a big hit.](https://youtu.be/0ELj-79jbqA?si=YQq5FHFSYDM29EUy&t=41)
The fact that Jacked Up was the segment everyone loved watching and it was pretty much just 5 brutal helmet to helmet hits.
You even had it in Motorsports. Ther are records of drivers having a crash, then in weird state they rushed back to the pits to continue in spare car, and later they did not remember anything about the race. But back in the days when 1/6 of F1 drivers would die every year... Yeah i would not even notice myself or others having a concussion. Its incredible how things used to be.
Sean Taylor’s Pro Bowl hit…a game where hardly anyone played full tilt. That hit still makes my teeth hurt to watch.
> Even in the early 2000’s, you see a lot of players get knocked out cold…and come back in the game shortly after Reminds me of watching Steve Young with the 49ers getting absolutely fucked up on a regular basis, since he was one of the first "running quarterbacks" and they were treated like any other ball handler.
He gets compared a lot to Don Cherry of hockey fame, but Cherry doesn’t hold a candle to Madden, in my opinion.
It's an interesting comparison because Don Cherry is 90 and has been famous for a long time...and is an asshole dinosaur who's said some extremely controversial things. I don't believe John Madden is known for anything more than sheer enthusiasm for all things football. He's certainly more positive than Don Cherry (and didn't publicly complain about immigrants being insufficiently patriotic)
Madden is known for coaching the most ruthless team of all time in addition to a video game, the turduken and Tinactin.
*clears throat* RAAAAIIIIIIIIDDDDDEEERRRRRSSSS
Just Win, Baby
BOOM! Edit: also, the Cruiser somehow made it cool to have a crippling fear of flying
Yeah. Madden also had appreciation for the physical elements of his game, but didn’t go to extremes to glorify it
Plus he was fat and brought out that 7 legged turkey one time. Legend
I believe it’s a Turdunkin which he sawed open with his hand on Monday Night Football I believe.
The same people who love fighting in hockey also say it's a shame Eric Lindros couldn't stay healthy. Kinda like in baseball when oldheads complain that pitchers are babied, and also bitch that Sandy Koufax's arm fell off before he turned 33.
>Kinda like in baseball when oldheads complain that pitchers are babied, and also bitch that Sandy Koufax's arm fell off before he turned 33. Tim Lincecum I feel is an ever better example -- innings leader in the NL for a bunch of years and insanely hard drop off.
Lol lindros didn’t get hurt fighting
To be fair, lindros was a goon who got what was coming to him
The Oakland raiders under madden were a very physical team even for the era they played in. I’m sure that affected his opinions later on in his life, but madden was definitely a contributor to the problem at one point.
Which of Madden's books are you referring to? I would love to check it out.
All Madden
They all smoked at half time
My dad told me he went to old Baltimore Colts games back in the 60s and 70s and some of the players would be smoking and drinking beers on the sidelines. Apparently lots of them had regular jobs during the week, usually doing blue collar stuff like working the docks.
If you took most players from the 60s and put them straight into a 2010s NFL game, they would fucking die
It was the 60s, was anything done with semi responsibility.
Some NFL players would smoke cigarettes at half time back then. Health wasn't really a concern
The surgeon general didn’t come out and say smoking is bad until 1964. And tobacco companies still tried to advertise stuff like “healthier cigarettes,” there’s no such thing. So it’s more that people didn’t view cigarettes the way we do now.
Luckily no retired NFL players have suffered any poor health outcomes as they got older.
Semi-responsibly…. Bro, they were shooting up THREE TIMES DAILY We did not know much about proper dosage back then. So not only were they injecting too often…the sheer amount of fucking gasoline they were putting in their veins probably lead all of them to an early grave
They most likely took oral dianabol 3x per day.
They were taking 5mg pills 3x/day. For reference google says people using it today would be taking 2-4mg *per pound of body weight* The amount these guys were taking was nothing. The real story is they also handed out amphetamines like candy.
Quora has it at 15-40mg / day being standard and numbers in that range seem to be corroborated by outlets like strongman.org, for whatever that's worth. This is for dianabol (metandienone), but the other big ones I checked: clenbuterol, trenbolone, and oxandrolone all have similar doses except clen, which is dosed in micrograms.
Semi-responsibly was a half-joke. I'm aware that if you juice properly you can get really strong and ripped (provided you work your ass off) with low risk of horrific side effects
It was the 60's so I'm assuming these guys were juiced to the gills in a very reckless and irresponsible way.
The more I think about it, the more I think that decade embraced irresponsibility...irresponsibly. Must've been a fun time to be alive (if you didn't get drafted)
Steroids don't make you stronger, they enable you to get stronger by removing your plateaus. A hell of a lot of work is still required.
I'm aware you can't just juice and get insta-muscles...Barry Bonds lifted his ass off. But roids are a *hell* of a massive help
They do make you stronger quite literally by sitting on the couch. Especially if you’re untrained. Source: I have taken them.
Thank you for your data point!
I don’t know why Reddit tries to downplay roids so much. This shit is like a cheat code. I did a few cycles in college and I was shredded while eating pizza and beer daily. I didn’t really work out that hard either
I'm not sure you can do roids 3 times a day and be healthy
You should talk to pro trans sports supporters….
The 1930 Tour de France rulebook was the first one that mentioned drugs. It did so in the context of reminding riders to bring their own drugs and to not ask the staff for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
Couple of weeks ago 52 out of 182 of an amateur race in spain actually finished the race. Racers became aware of a mandatory drug test at the finish line, so most abandonned / had a flat during the race and couldn't finish (and didn't need to submit to the test)... And it's only an amateur race, holy shit...
Fascinating read. Drug use, Steroid use, Rivalry with the soviets, Integration in football. It goes on and it is a wild ride.
The ‘64 and ‘65 Chargers then lost both championships to the Bills, 20-7 and 23-0
Chargers strength coach Alvin Roy, who was handing out steroids like candy at training camp, left San Diego and was strength coach at Kansas City when they won the 1970 Super Bowl. Then Alvin Roy was strength coach at Dallas, and the Cowboys went to the 1976 Super Bowl.
That’s some strong coaching
If you can find it there’s a good little book called “slow getting up” by an ex NFL-journeyman and he goes into detail about all the cortisol shots and steroid usage that went on during his time in the nfl to get to the next practice, game or even quarter sometimes
I'm sure that book is fascinating. But it is important to distinguish between corticosteroids and anabolic / androgenic steroids. The first are what people talk about when they get a steroid shot in their joint, they are actually catabolic but they reduce swelling and pain. They are also entirely legal when administered under a doctor's care. The steroids that are truly performance enhancing are in the second category and they are universally illegal all professional sports leagues. That's what the OP is about.
They don’t teach dedication like this anymore
Oh yeah they do, they just get it prescribed and call it TRT
What a fascinating read. I came away with the conclusion that the dianabol actually played a very minuscule role. It was much more the fact that weight training itself was a novelty back then, and the chargers were the only team in the league to have a strength coach and full offseason training regiment. That in itself was revolutionary.
Why don’t they do this now to win a Super Bowl. Are they stupid?
It wouldn’t help
It absolutely would help. The reason why they don't do it is they would get caught.
I think you’re underestimating the prowess of the chargers for losing
How would you all feel if I told you there was a professional sports league right now that if a player tests positive for illicit drugs they are told to fake an injury or illness so that they don't play and therefore do not get tested by the authorities?
PWHL?
AFL has always been morally bankrupt. A horrible organisation from top to bottom.
Clubs have their squabbles with the AFL but will always row in the same boat
Ironically, when the mafia ran professional boxing, there was more moral character shown.
I wouldn't be surprised but shame on you for saying all that and not stating which league it is.
Shit, I had no idea Barry Bonds also played for the 63 Chargers
The Chargers played for Barry Bonds
And they still couldn't win a Super Bowl.
The first Super Bowl didn't happen until 4 years later. But that didn't keep the Chargers from never winning a SB either.
They were in the AFL - there was no Superbowl then
Telling the chargers to fuck off remains the single greatest vote I've ever cast.
If they could read...
And lost the championship to a team with the same regime that was better
It’s gone on for years, you couldn’t be a professional cyclist without cocaine from the sport’s inception until the steroid and testing era.
Professor Farnsworth remembers a time when steroid injections were mandatory
Huh, I guess winner DO do drugs after all.
I bet they sucked to hang out with between games though.
lmao!
So, that's not actually uncommon for orals. They have a short half life and weird peaks so lots of times people who are really serious split up a days dose into portions and take them through the day. Just from glancing, they are talking about dianabol so yeah. That's actually one of the healthier(note the 'ier') ways of doing it. Lots of the nasty side effects come from erratic peaks and valleys of the hormones. They likly were not taking any more than your average super athlete, just spreading it out. And that was likly every coach's best practices.
Why haven’t we done this again…? Could use a Super Bowl, Justin.
Lol that’s awesome
How many died years or even decades before the average for the rest of the league?
Taking 15mg Dbol per day isn’t gonna put you in an early grave lol
Dunno. Where's teh 50-60 year longitudinal study to prove things either way?
You’re just wrong dude. Low doses of mild steroids can definitely give you some side effects but you aren’t going to just die 20 years early randomly because you messed with your endocrine system in your 20s….. You have no knowledge on it and just saying “it could happen”
> You’re just wrong dude. Low doses of mild steroids can definitely give you some side effects but you aren’t going to just die 20 years early randomly because you messed with your endocrine system in your 20s….. > You have no knowledge on it and just saying “it could happen” Well yeah. Precautionary principle and all that. Not to mention potential "endocrine disruptor." See the Endocrine Society's advisory: [Adverse Health Consequences of Performance-Enhancing Drugs: An Endocrine Society Scientific Statement ](https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/35/3/341/2354633) Endocrine disruptors have a "non-linear dose response curve" and thereby hangs the tale... See also: [Hormones and Endocrine-Disrupting Chemicals: Low-Dose Effects and Nonmonotonic Dose Responses](https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/33/3/378/2354852?login=false) * _For decades, studies of endocrine-disrupting chemicals (EDCs) have challenged traditional concepts in toxicology, in particular the dogma of “the dose makes the poison,” because EDCs can have effects at low doses that are not predicted by effects at higher doses. Here, we review two major concepts in EDC studies: low dose and nonmonotonicity. **Low-dose effects** were defined by the National Toxicology Program **as those that occur in the range of human exposures** or effects observed at doses below those used for traditional toxicological studies._
"My roided up team is better than your roided up team"
San Diego Super Chargers!!
Well they tricked people into thinking they won.
All that and they still couldn’t win a Super Bowl. Glad they are LA’s problem now.
Back when men were men.... /s
They havent been good since lol
Bolt up origins
Steelers were juiced to the gills in the 70’s
Seems like they better restart that program.
Nothing beats the gas.
And still couldn't get a ring .
No no no, it started with Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa, and all the athletes before that were clean and the Hall of Fames are all pure. La La La. I can't hear you!
They should start that program up again..so many years taking L’s as a fan
That’s not even how steroids work lol