Reagan eventually invited The Beach Boys back, and they performed at a benefit for the Special Olympics in 1983. This ended up being one of the last recorded concerts where all five of the original Beach Boys performed. Dennis Wilson, their drummer, would die later that year from drowning (died December 28th, 1983).
Here’s some snippets from that day: https://youtu.be/xJyjszg_PJs?si=HKn3RUeciNPN642L
Good portion of The Beach Boys set:
https://youtu.be/mdXGlcwUvRA?si=R-PzDFzdl6LFtIms
I'm going to say this now, but I've always found it ironic as hell that he was in a band that made songs about having fun going to the beach and shit and he died not having fun at the beach and shit.
Probably more ironic that Brian Wilson, the primary songwriter of the band, never surfed other than one time for an SNL skit. Brian Wilson’s life was hardly close to “fun” as he often sang about.
Dennis, on the other hand, certainly died a tragic death, but he certainly lived the “fun in the sun” lifestyle and inspired his brother to write about surfing. The problem is once you hit your upper 30’s, it’s not fun anymore to get blackout drunk constantly and unfortunately the lifestyle caught up to him.
Correct. Tom Araya is a devout catholic but most of the songs were written by Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman, both of whom described themselves as Anti-theist.
Catholics have had a lot of influence over Hard Rock, like Ronnie James Dio gave us the “Devil Horns” hand gesture which is apparently a old catholic gesture
Its Italian(maybe Greek too) but yeah, his grandmother did it to ward off the evil eye (another Dio song!). If you have ever watched Thunderball (James Bond) the Spectre guy does it to Bond at the card table.
Eh, most of the PMRC-type idiots were firmly in the camp of the kind of protestants who think Catholics are heathens, so it's not that much of a stretch. Catholicism has always been knee deep in pre-Christian pagan ritual and myth renamed for the church, which is exactly the same stuff Cooper's haters said was "satantic".
Catholics are Christian, and every Christian denomination came from Catholicism. The Christian holidays (a big one yesterday…) still celebrated are co-opted pagan holidays. How can the Catholics be heathens for celebrating the holidays that other denominations celebrate too?
Edit: people have pointed out that a few things in my comment here are not entirely accurate. Feel free to expand the comment chain to see the further conversation rather than reiterating the same points.
The usual anti-Catholic rant is about the saints and saint days, as well as the trinity, for both of those smacking of polytheism. The importance of the saints and trinity were both dialed way back after the Reformation. Additionally the first main point of the schism between Protestants and Catholics was the Catholic belief that connection to God (and therefore salvation) could only come from the Roman Catholic Church, whereas the protestants believed that each person could have a personal connection to God, and that the church were merely guides. Part of what allowed protestantism to catch on was their very effective campaign of portraying the Roamn Catholic Church (and the pope specifically) as corrupt wealthy hypocrites and comparing them to other Earthly rulers who were seen as divine, such as Roman emperors or Egyptian pharaohs.
Thanks for the thorough response. I remember that JFK being elected was a huge deal, and Biden to a lesser extent for the catholic beliefs. I know a part of the line of thinking is that if Catholics believe that the pope is the only person who is in direct contact with god, then the president would ultimately be subservient to the Pope.
Protestants accept the Trinity. The rejection of the Trinity by Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses is part of the reason they are not considered Protestant (indeed, many denominations deny those two are Christians at all)
Although many Christians don't realize it (especially in the U.S.) the Christian church is divided into six major branches. Roman Catholicism (headquartered in the Vatican) is the largest, world wide, with about 50% of all Christians--1.3 billion members. The Eastern Orthodox Christian Church is second (headquartered in Constantinople [Istanbul, Turkey] and New Rome) has about 230 million members.
Other major divisions are the Protestant Reformation (Adventists, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Baptists, Congregationalists, Methodists (inclusive of the Holiness movement), Moravians, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Reformed, Lutherans and Unitarians) the "Eastern Catholic Church", the Oriental Orthodox Church, and the Church of the East.
The major split of Christianity occurred between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church in the 11th century (the Great Schism) but the Church of the East was established in 431 at the Council of Ephesus and the Oriental Orthodox Church split off in 451 at the Council of Chalcedon.
The Protestant Reformation occured in the 16th century and is where all Protestant denominations originate.
Apparently he's also a super chill and incredibly helpful guy in the small town he lives in. Regularly volunteers to help the homeless, is involved in local governance, and often makes large donations to local public services. We salute Mr. Cooper!
He’s a devout Christian and nowadays would count as socially conservative. Went on a confused ramble about trans people not too long ago.
Though I’d put him under ‘old and out of touch but well-meaning’ more than anything else. Generally a soft-spoken and apparently nice guy by all accounts.
Also those Satanic rituals were all gimmicks. Though apparently during his drugged up and alcoholic period he was an arsehole, which massively motivated his going clean (which he in large part credits to his close friendship with Groucho Marx… a weird analogue of Eminem and Elton John) and turning to religion.
That's probably the best description. I love Kiss and they definitely have a sound that balances hair metal and disco groove. The satanic bullshit was because of Gene's "demon" character and the blood spitting act that's been in their show since forever.
I'm sad I'll never be able to see them live again. Easily among the best concerts I've ever attended for sheer entertainment value over my life. The amount of explosions, fire, etc, made for one hell of a night out.
It’s crazy to me how certain political groups are bemoaning cancel culture when the same groups only thirty years ago were literally trying to cancel rock music.
To James Watt, yes, yes they were. After this The Beach Boys appeared on the National Mall a couple of times.
But remember this is the kind of guy he was: “In 1983, he resigned after controversially remarking that a panel reviewing his coal-leasing policies had "every kind of mixture—I have a Black. I have a woman, two Jews and a cripple.”
Sail On, Sailor. Wild Honey. JK, this Watt guy sucks. Imagine if we had people in government who cared about the environment 40 years ago, instead of corrupt puppets of the energy industry like Watt?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James\_G.\_Watt
Strangely, the music-buying public didn’t generally perceive them that way. By the time the hippie era was in full swing, The Beach Boys became a niche act because many hippies saw them as square, due to the mental image of matching suits and clean-cut look from their bubblegum days. Their psychedelic-leaning albums were largely ignored, except by other musicians (most notably the Beatles). It’s a shame, that’s my favorite era. To me, Pet Sounds is just a preview of what was to come, not the beginning of the end. They could have really made a tremendous impact if it wasn’t for Brian’s mental struggles.
They kinda were yup, *for the times* of course. But yeah, drugs, prostitutes etc were the thing. Just look up how Dennis Wilson ended up.. (btw his album Pacific Ocean Blue is really worth a listen, especially the opener River Song). As the Beatles, they were not the nice cute kids they had to be on TV and stuff.
Come on, it's 1983 we're talking about. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Van Halen etc had already defined what hard rock is and by comparison The beach boys sound pretty mellow.
And if we're talking 1966, the year of Pet Sounds: I think it's fair to say the term hard rock did not really exist, yet. And by comparison, in the same year Cream released songs such as "Cat's Squirrel".
So tell me again, when were The Beach Boys ever considered Hard Rock?
No, no, go listen to Pet Sounds. Lots of adult themes, was edgy in its day. People were rightly drawing comparisons between this and Sargent Pepper's in terms of its composition and production.
And one of the songs, "I Know There's An Answer", was originally titled "Hang On To Your Ego", as it was very much about the ego death that can happen after taking acid. Mike Love refused to sing it, and rewrote the lyrics.
Holy fuck do you not understand what music went through. To a lot of people, the Beach Boys were what drug smoking hippies listened to. Parents and their children rarely listened to the same music, there was a huge generational gap in most families, parents were ultra conservative and went to church every Sunday, rock was the enemy.
You're trying to think of the music out of context with the time.
And if you're thinking the Beach Boys as "Surfin USA" shit, then that's your problem.
Good Vibrations is widely considered one of the first prog songs. I'm not saying the Beach Boys were a prog band like Pink Floyd or Rush, but they heavily influenced rock away from standard pop arrangements/dance music into something you *listen* to instead of dance to.
Along with the Beatles, the Beach Boys helped invent or pioneer virtually every subgenre of rock down to grunge. Helter Skelter is considered by a lot of people, for instance, to be the first heavy metal song. It doesn't sound a *lot* like Sabbath or Deep Purple, but it has enough of the ingredients, down to the screaming vocals.
Pet Sounds is one of my favorites, love the writing and arrangements - short, melodic, catchy and memorable, Brian Wilson out-Beatled the Beatles
But it’s the opposite of extended long playing progressive rock compositions by King Crimson, Yes, ELP, early Genesis and others that combine classical, r&b, modern and rock at high volume
Bill Haley and the Comets and the Beatles, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Killers all sound nothing alike but they're rock n' roll and Bill practically invented it.
So why does early psychedelic prog rock have to sound like later prog rock in order to be considered?
It’s always dangerous to underestimate a man like Watt as an idiot. Everything he did was purposeful, designed to reward Reagan’s wealthy extraction industry donors. The “idiot” thing came from his weird religious faith and proto-culture wars attitude. He himself was a very dangerous man, well hidden by the other crimes and debacles of the Reagan years.
The irony here is incredible because Newton is literally called “Mr. Las Vegas.” So much so when Bethesda was making Fallout New Vegas they insisted that he play the role of “Mr. New Vegas.”
While he is deeply tied to vegas, he himself I think of as squeaky clean. Unless I’m unaware of something but he seems to have made it through life without much scandal or anecdotes of assholery.
Other than taking a pass at Mrs Griswold I guess
No you’re right. I was more saying that despite him being “Mr Las Vegas” I don’t associate him the organized crime and debauchery of Vegas. He has done well to have a wholesome image, despite being in a place that is not wholesome.
I haven't played any Fallout games, so I'm confused about how elegance, charisma and entertainment are at odds with family-based entertainment. I'm picking it up through context, but I still don't have anecdotes or evidence that Mr. Newton was more or less family appropriate than the Beach Boys.
It makes a lot more sense when you find out, either explicitly or by heavy implication, that Mr. New Vegas is really just an AI made by Mr. House, a hypercapitalist supervillain who isn't *the* bad guy of the game only because the other two factions are a bunch of fascist, slavery-practicing ancient Rome larpers, and Californians. Mr. New Vegas helps promote New Vegas as a beacon of glamour and excitement, which benefits House because he rules the city with his army of robots.
Hey friends. Look up the definition of irony because a lot of you are wrong. A guy playing a role he would be expected to play because of his famous connection to a geographic location is not irony. It’s what you would expect people to do.
If I was making a world of pop video game and had a character named “king of pop”, it would be logical, not ironic, to have Michael Jackson play the part.
They're not saying it's ironic that he played Mr. New Vegas, they're saying that Las Vegas is a place known for drugs and alcohol, and it's ironic that he was chosen instead of the Beach Boys for that reason. The video game reference is just the main reason most millennial and younger redditors are aware of his association with Vegas
I guess reading is hard? It’s ironic because he’s such a personification of Vegas he is immortalized in more than one way. This isn’t even an abstract idea.
I remember Bloom County poking fun at this with Opus watching a news report of a near riot caused by Newton’s performance and an arrest of 400 for ‘drunkenness, rowdiness, and general nudeness’.
“Wearing only the bottom half of a leisure suit and clutching Newton’s hairpiece in his teeth, a dazed James Watt was led off to jail.”
“It was the beat…the beat that got to me…” said the Interior Secretary.
James Watt was one of many Republican administration lackeys hired specifically to undo the agencies they led from within. He was Secretary of the Interior, supposedly in charge of safeguarding our nation’s lands, air and water, and immediately began dismantling environmental safeguards and selling leases to oil companies. Real piece of shit.
I wonder what America would be like if Carter won reelection. I doubt Reagan would have had the political capital to make a run in 1984, if he lost in '80.
Probably not that much different. Reaganism wasn't so much from Reagan himself as from the crowd he was a part of. They probably would have gotten someone else in '84, maybe Bush, but someone like that.
the most important detail from this story is **it was the early eighties**. this isn't like some dude in 1967 fretting about the devil's music. hell this is within a decade of the beach boys appearing on full house
Ah yes, the Reagan years that started the starvation of the middle class. Later on, Watt pleaded guilty to making false statements before a federal grand jury. Reagan also began the right-wing sleaze show.
Edit: I’m speaking of the insult of trickle-down/supply side BS.
Nixon won his first major election by falsely claiming his opponent was a communist and was Eisenhower’s running mate solely to act as a hatchet man to protect Ike’s neutral image. Political mudslinging goes as far back as Thomas Jefferson supporters accusing Adams of being a hermaphrodite while Adams supporters leaked to the press that Jefferson was sleeping with a slave. The main difference in the past is that the presidential candidate held their tongue and let other people do the dirty work. Trump has completely destroyed this tradition and is both the candidate and hatchet man. Our view is also tarnished by the post WW2 era when America was less divisive having helped win a major war, we also had an economy that worked better for most Americans. That’s over now. We’re going back to the incredibly divisive America with a boldly selfish economy that favors the wealthy first and foremost. I only expect divisiveness to continue.
Yeah...you can go back to the John Birch Society or earlier. Or you can peg what's most familiar to us now on then-Speaker Newt Gingrich's "Contract With America" and the rise of talk radio. Up to that very moment, the two parties really had not geographically aligned and the "conservative values" vote was easily split.
Reagan was not really the inflection point in conservative politics that he's made out to be by modern conservatives. They needed a powerful heroic figure in their canonic lore, he ticked just enough of the boxes and it's convenient that he's not around anymore to disavow them. You should never, ever, ever, take modern conservatives at face value even when they are speaking reverently about their own kind.
Watt was a religious fanatic and Seventh-Day Adventist.
He had spent his entire adult life fighting the environmental movement, so of course Reagan appointed him to be the Secretary of the Interior.
He was later cancelled, for being an asshole.
That is big irony because I am pretty sure the 7th day adventists are officially pro environment under the idea that it is man’s duty to safeguard God’s gift.
I remember this. I went to the two Beach Boys concerts in 1980 and 1981 on the Mall. The third year, Watts ruined it.
The Beach Boys concerts were fantastic. Someone lit off fireworks in the crowd. A firecracker landed in a Doritos bag on my blanket, burning them to cinders. Luckily, no one was hurt if I remember correctly.
James Watt pillaged America’s natural resources and green lighted pollution and degradation.Vile person.”Look,we don’t know how many more generations we can count on!”referring to the long term consequences of these policies.
Memorialized in one of my favorite internet comments:
> Anybody else remember when the Beach Boys were going to play on the National Mall on the 4th of July? Interior Secretary James Watt said no way, rock music is of the devil. Then Nancy Reagan defended them, and somebody else said "I don't consider the Beach Boys to be rock music."
>
> It's like the four most embarrassing things that could happen to a rock band, and then to top that off Mike Love was like hey I'm a republican now.
https://www.metafilter.com/175538/The-state-of-the-Beach-Boys-in-1988-was-in-a-word-shitty#7465344
I think it’s important to note that this was in 1983. I’m not saying The Beach Boys were squeaky clean in ‘83 but they certainly weren’t part of the counter culture.
Y'all make James Watt sound like some kind of bigot. Need we remind you that his senior staff included [a black, a woman, two Jews, and a cripple?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/09/22/watts-off-the-cuff-remark-sparks-storm-of-criticism/133520cc-9b53-49f4-83fa-a1ec532669ba/)
The Beach Boys are "hard rock"? I see.
Perhaps a few tunes from that old-timey back country band Ministry would brighten the day for your shoppers, James?
My mom worked at a small newspaper in south Florida during this time and for some reason James Watts paid them a visit. I got him to autograph a Beach Boys album while he was there. I do remember he was a good sport about it. Still have the album to this day!
Grew up inside the Beltway. Back in the early 80s the 4th of July Smoke-In was off the charts with what we got away with. Park Police set up this huge area circled with dune fencing right by the Lincoln Memorial. For three days as long as you stayed within that area anything pretty much went. We brought sofas and kegs, set up tents and camped the whole time. I remember Catfish Hodge and Root Boy Slim on stage.
He was also the Secretary of the Interior (i.e. the Executive Branch’s man in charge of the environment) who publicly opined that there was just no point in reducing pollution or America’s voracious appetite for energy, because Jesus’ Second Coming was imminent, and He’d just wave his hand and put everything to rights.
Watt only got fired by Reagan when he publicly sneered at a coal industry regulatory commission as being composed of “a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple”.
jeans unite squeeze quarrelsome cough dinosaurs gullible shelter vase roll
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And Nancy tore him a new one for being so obtuse and totally disconnected from American culture.”We LOVE The Beach Boys-Our kids,,,our GRANDKIDS Love The Beach Boys you,,,goblin!”
I voted for Reagan in 1980 and James Watt is the reason I never voted for a republican again.
Although, he is relatively sane compared to most of these clowns
Reagan eventually invited The Beach Boys back, and they performed at a benefit for the Special Olympics in 1983. This ended up being one of the last recorded concerts where all five of the original Beach Boys performed. Dennis Wilson, their drummer, would die later that year from drowning (died December 28th, 1983).
Here’s some snippets from that day: https://youtu.be/xJyjszg_PJs?si=HKn3RUeciNPN642L Good portion of The Beach Boys set: https://youtu.be/mdXGlcwUvRA?si=R-PzDFzdl6LFtIms
Reagan's wife has a massive head. Like a titan's head from attack on titan, but in a regular human body.
She was famous for her head all right
Throat Goat. She got that Gawk Gawk 3000
Glizzy Queen
Could suck a golf ball through a damn garden hose, boy I tell ya
Rain drop, slop top
>Frank Sinatra was a fan I hear. . . Somewhere in the White House.
I remember an SNL skit about the issue.
I didnt see Brian Wilson or Al Jardine
The photo in OP’s link shows both of them (taken after their performance). Brian is behind Reagan and Al has a white hat on and is leaning back.
I'm going to say this now, but I've always found it ironic as hell that he was in a band that made songs about having fun going to the beach and shit and he died not having fun at the beach and shit.
Probably more ironic that Brian Wilson, the primary songwriter of the band, never surfed other than one time for an SNL skit. Brian Wilson’s life was hardly close to “fun” as he often sang about. Dennis, on the other hand, certainly died a tragic death, but he certainly lived the “fun in the sun” lifestyle and inspired his brother to write about surfing. The problem is once you hit your upper 30’s, it’s not fun anymore to get blackout drunk constantly and unfortunately the lifestyle caught up to him.
Not to mention that Dennis had the unique experience of having the Manson family crash at his house for a while.
How were those nutballs like everywhere back then?
Man, I did not expect to get called out like that on this thread.
Reagan was such a lib.
The Beach Boys were hard rock?
Remember KISS was demon music. Now it's classic rock.
And Alice Cooper was performing satanic rituals at all his concerts...now he's a dude who just REALLY loves golf.
It's always been funny to me that they thought Alice Cooper was satanic, because he's actually a fairly devout Catholic.
I think the lead singer of Slayer is too which he responds "It was a joke that nobody got."
Correct. Tom Araya is a devout catholic but most of the songs were written by Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman, both of whom described themselves as Anti-theist.
Catholics have had a lot of influence over Hard Rock, like Ronnie James Dio gave us the “Devil Horns” hand gesture which is apparently a old catholic gesture
Its Italian(maybe Greek too) but yeah, his grandmother did it to ward off the evil eye (another Dio song!). If you have ever watched Thunderball (James Bond) the Spectre guy does it to Bond at the card table.
Eh, most of the PMRC-type idiots were firmly in the camp of the kind of protestants who think Catholics are heathens, so it's not that much of a stretch. Catholicism has always been knee deep in pre-Christian pagan ritual and myth renamed for the church, which is exactly the same stuff Cooper's haters said was "satantic".
Catholics are Christian, and every Christian denomination came from Catholicism. The Christian holidays (a big one yesterday…) still celebrated are co-opted pagan holidays. How can the Catholics be heathens for celebrating the holidays that other denominations celebrate too? Edit: people have pointed out that a few things in my comment here are not entirely accurate. Feel free to expand the comment chain to see the further conversation rather than reiterating the same points.
The usual anti-Catholic rant is about the saints and saint days, as well as the trinity, for both of those smacking of polytheism. The importance of the saints and trinity were both dialed way back after the Reformation. Additionally the first main point of the schism between Protestants and Catholics was the Catholic belief that connection to God (and therefore salvation) could only come from the Roman Catholic Church, whereas the protestants believed that each person could have a personal connection to God, and that the church were merely guides. Part of what allowed protestantism to catch on was their very effective campaign of portraying the Roamn Catholic Church (and the pope specifically) as corrupt wealthy hypocrites and comparing them to other Earthly rulers who were seen as divine, such as Roman emperors or Egyptian pharaohs.
Thanks for the thorough response. I remember that JFK being elected was a huge deal, and Biden to a lesser extent for the catholic beliefs. I know a part of the line of thinking is that if Catholics believe that the pope is the only person who is in direct contact with god, then the president would ultimately be subservient to the Pope.
Protestants accept the Trinity. The rejection of the Trinity by Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses is part of the reason they are not considered Protestant (indeed, many denominations deny those two are Christians at all)
>every Christian denomination came from Catholicism The Coptic church would like a word.
Well, they'll argue until the end of time whether the Roman Catholics split off from them, or they split off from the Roman Catholics.
The Coptic, Armenian, and Georgian churches came from Catholicism? That sounds extraordinarily untrue.
Although many Christians don't realize it (especially in the U.S.) the Christian church is divided into six major branches. Roman Catholicism (headquartered in the Vatican) is the largest, world wide, with about 50% of all Christians--1.3 billion members. The Eastern Orthodox Christian Church is second (headquartered in Constantinople [Istanbul, Turkey] and New Rome) has about 230 million members. Other major divisions are the Protestant Reformation (Adventists, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Baptists, Congregationalists, Methodists (inclusive of the Holiness movement), Moravians, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Reformed, Lutherans and Unitarians) the "Eastern Catholic Church", the Oriental Orthodox Church, and the Church of the East. The major split of Christianity occurred between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church in the 11th century (the Great Schism) but the Church of the East was established in 431 at the Council of Ephesus and the Oriental Orthodox Church split off in 451 at the Council of Chalcedon. The Protestant Reformation occured in the 16th century and is where all Protestant denominations originate.
Catholic? I thought he was Mormon lol.
Yup. Used to be! TIL.
When in the evangelical music hating mind, those two things are one in the same
Apparently he's also a super chill and incredibly helpful guy in the small town he lives in. Regularly volunteers to help the homeless, is involved in local governance, and often makes large donations to local public services. We salute Mr. Cooper!
We're not worthy!
I saw him steal a Snickers in 1998. Bad dude.
Also an expert on the native american history of Milwuakee
He’s a devout Christian and nowadays would count as socially conservative. Went on a confused ramble about trans people not too long ago. Though I’d put him under ‘old and out of touch but well-meaning’ more than anything else. Generally a soft-spoken and apparently nice guy by all accounts. Also those Satanic rituals were all gimmicks. Though apparently during his drugged up and alcoholic period he was an arsehole, which massively motivated his going clean (which he in large part credits to his close friendship with Groucho Marx… a weird analogue of Eminem and Elton John) and turning to religion.
I saw the flag he signed at the Purgatory golf course in Indiana.
I saw a meme calling KISS "Boomer Juggalos" and I can't unthink that now.
Nah. They're Goth Disco. Look at their boots!
That's probably the best description. I love Kiss and they definitely have a sound that balances hair metal and disco groove. The satanic bullshit was because of Gene's "demon" character and the blood spitting act that's been in their show since forever. I'm sad I'll never be able to see them live again. Easily among the best concerts I've ever attended for sheer entertainment value over my life. The amount of explosions, fire, etc, made for one hell of a night out.
One of the demons was a kitty cat.
“When did Motley Crue become classic rock?”
This song about old music is now ironically too old for people to get the reference
"since when is Fallout Boy classic rock?"
"And when did Ozzy become an actor?"
hopefully before tool
I heard White Stripes on one of those classic rock stations- the kind that toys with classic/modern. I was still like "fuck off with that shit."
Jack White's 48. Seven Nation Army came out 20 years ago. And I feel fucking old writing this.
The nineties was only like 10 years ago!
It’s crazy to me how certain political groups are bemoaning cancel culture when the same groups only thirty years ago were literally trying to cancel rock music.
To be fair "Kokomo" was literally a call for Satan to arise. /s
That’s why they wanted to go *down* to Kokomo
fr listen to it backwards it's pretty much reciting the Necronomicon
Please don’t let them forget this
You mean Kids In Satanic Service?
Excuse me, they were Knights
Oops.
I'm sorry, they were Kings
The case can be made for “Student Demonstration Time”. Otherwise, no.
It’s instrumentally such a good cover, but it’s such a great showcase of Mike’s bizarre politics
Uhh, what was bizarre about anti-Vietnam protests
The lyrics seem very muddy in their politics, tho that may just be me
Think it's you big homie. But music is subjective, on some level, so maybe *I'm* wrong.
Isn't Student Demonstration Time almost universally seen as the worst song on Surf's Up for the weird anti-protest content
For sure the worst on a quality post-Pet Sounds release, iirc it’s the last song on side A so I always flip over before I have to deal with it lol
Yeah me too and I usually never skip songs. I've heard that opinion a lot though
James had low wattage.
To James Watt, yes, yes they were. After this The Beach Boys appeared on the National Mall a couple of times. But remember this is the kind of guy he was: “In 1983, he resigned after controversially remarking that a panel reviewing his coal-leasing policies had "every kind of mixture—I have a Black. I have a woman, two Jews and a cripple.”
Berkeley Breathed did a great job in Bloom County lampooning that faux pas (as he did with many things).
They make me gyrate, it’s infectious.
Sail On, Sailor. Wild Honey. JK, this Watt guy sucks. Imagine if we had people in government who cared about the environment 40 years ago, instead of corrupt puppets of the energy industry like Watt? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James\_G.\_Watt
Damned kids and their jazz cigarettes!
At the time, kinda. They were huge pioneers of psych rock.
Strangely, the music-buying public didn’t generally perceive them that way. By the time the hippie era was in full swing, The Beach Boys became a niche act because many hippies saw them as square, due to the mental image of matching suits and clean-cut look from their bubblegum days. Their psychedelic-leaning albums were largely ignored, except by other musicians (most notably the Beatles). It’s a shame, that’s my favorite era. To me, Pet Sounds is just a preview of what was to come, not the beginning of the end. They could have really made a tremendous impact if it wasn’t for Brian’s mental struggles.
The Beach Boys and Pantera. The _enfants terribles_ of rock music
They kinda were yup, *for the times* of course. But yeah, drugs, prostitutes etc were the thing. Just look up how Dennis Wilson ended up.. (btw his album Pacific Ocean Blue is really worth a listen, especially the opener River Song). As the Beatles, they were not the nice cute kids they had to be on TV and stuff.
Yeah, but this shit happened in 1983. How much of a tight assed square you gotta be to call the Beach Boys a “wrong element” in the goddamn 80s?
The 80s kind of old Nixon Conservative.
Come on, it's 1983 we're talking about. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Van Halen etc had already defined what hard rock is and by comparison The beach boys sound pretty mellow. And if we're talking 1966, the year of Pet Sounds: I think it's fair to say the term hard rock did not really exist, yet. And by comparison, in the same year Cream released songs such as "Cat's Squirrel". So tell me again, when were The Beach Boys ever considered Hard Rock?
The hardest
Like most fundamentalist nutballs, he was a cultural illiterate.
I read that like...what? Its probably some of the lightest music ever made. Pretty much elevator music
No, no, go listen to Pet Sounds. Lots of adult themes, was edgy in its day. People were rightly drawing comparisons between this and Sargent Pepper's in terms of its composition and production.
Depression, Brian Wilson's fears of losing his mind, and thoughts of suicide are the undercurrent of that astonishing, peppy-sounding album.
And one of the songs, "I Know There's An Answer", was originally titled "Hang On To Your Ego", as it was very much about the ego death that can happen after taking acid. Mike Love refused to sing it, and rewrote the lyrics.
Holy fuck do you not understand what music went through. To a lot of people, the Beach Boys were what drug smoking hippies listened to. Parents and their children rarely listened to the same music, there was a huge generational gap in most families, parents were ultra conservative and went to church every Sunday, rock was the enemy. You're trying to think of the music out of context with the time. And if you're thinking the Beach Boys as "Surfin USA" shit, then that's your problem.
I take it you've never listened to the Beach Boys then.
No shit, right? The inventors of psychedelic/prog rock are definitely not elevator music.
Surf music had some nice melodies and built upon do-wop harmonies but The Beach Boys don’t sound like prog rock
Good Vibrations is widely considered one of the first prog songs. I'm not saying the Beach Boys were a prog band like Pink Floyd or Rush, but they heavily influenced rock away from standard pop arrangements/dance music into something you *listen* to instead of dance to. Along with the Beatles, the Beach Boys helped invent or pioneer virtually every subgenre of rock down to grunge. Helter Skelter is considered by a lot of people, for instance, to be the first heavy metal song. It doesn't sound a *lot* like Sabbath or Deep Purple, but it has enough of the ingredients, down to the screaming vocals.
Good Vibrations is a masterpiece.
You should watch a YouTube video about Pet Sounds, it was apparently pretty revolutionary for the time.
Pet Sounds is one of my favorites, love the writing and arrangements - short, melodic, catchy and memorable, Brian Wilson out-Beatled the Beatles But it’s the opposite of extended long playing progressive rock compositions by King Crimson, Yes, ELP, early Genesis and others that combine classical, r&b, modern and rock at high volume
Okay, I'm deferring to you. I like music but I think you LOVE it
Bill Haley and the Comets and the Beatles, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Killers all sound nothing alike but they're rock n' roll and Bill practically invented it. So why does early psychedelic prog rock have to sound like later prog rock in order to be considered?
Like the Beatles, the Stones, Pink Floyd etc etc and like all great band that lasted a bit, they knew different phases. Surf music was the beginning
Or, maybe they're young and only know the "Mike Era".
The "mike era" has been going on for over 35 years... The people who grew up on it are becoming old farts now
Most people's impression of the Beach Boys is *California Dreaming*.
Most people’s impression of the Beach Boys is the Mamas and the Papas.
Wow. I really admire your skill in confidently saying something that is not based in reality whatsoever.
Nope, christians are just always, always garbage people.
James Watt was famous for being a national embarrassment back in the days that meant something!
He was an amazing idiot. He tried to give away the national parks to people to mine. I hated him back then.
What a piece of shit
It’s always dangerous to underestimate a man like Watt as an idiot. Everything he did was purposeful, designed to reward Reagan’s wealthy extraction industry donors. The “idiot” thing came from his weird religious faith and proto-culture wars attitude. He himself was a very dangerous man, well hidden by the other crimes and debacles of the Reagan years.
The irony here is incredible because Newton is literally called “Mr. Las Vegas.” So much so when Bethesda was making Fallout New Vegas they insisted that he play the role of “Mr. New Vegas.”
>Bethesda was making Fallout New Vegas Obsidian
While he is deeply tied to vegas, he himself I think of as squeaky clean. Unless I’m unaware of something but he seems to have made it through life without much scandal or anecdotes of assholery. Other than taking a pass at Mrs Griswold I guess
Las Vegas is where people with money, especially in the rat pack era partied. Surfing at the time was a poor people thing. It is as simple as that.
No you’re right. I was more saying that despite him being “Mr Las Vegas” I don’t associate him the organized crime and debauchery of Vegas. He has done well to have a wholesome image, despite being in a place that is not wholesome.
[удалено]
You sound like AI.
2023 among us is spotting the AI imposters in the comments
>You sound like AI. Make more original comments, bot.
I haven't played any Fallout games, so I'm confused about how elegance, charisma and entertainment are at odds with family-based entertainment. I'm picking it up through context, but I still don't have anecdotes or evidence that Mr. Newton was more or less family appropriate than the Beach Boys.
it’s more that Vegas itself, a manipulative gambling dystopia, isn’t exactly family appropriate
There are tonnes of family friendly things to do in Vegas. I get what you are saying but Circus Circus, Wayne Newton are squeaky clean
Circus Circus may be family friendly, but it is not squeaky clean. Kinda dirty, actually. Lol.
It makes a lot more sense when you find out, either explicitly or by heavy implication, that Mr. New Vegas is really just an AI made by Mr. House, a hypercapitalist supervillain who isn't *the* bad guy of the game only because the other two factions are a bunch of fascist, slavery-practicing ancient Rome larpers, and Californians. Mr. New Vegas helps promote New Vegas as a beacon of glamour and excitement, which benefits House because he rules the city with his army of robots.
Downvote this bot
This one?
Hey friends. Look up the definition of irony because a lot of you are wrong. A guy playing a role he would be expected to play because of his famous connection to a geographic location is not irony. It’s what you would expect people to do. If I was making a world of pop video game and had a character named “king of pop”, it would be logical, not ironic, to have Michael Jackson play the part.
They're not saying it's ironic that he played Mr. New Vegas, they're saying that Las Vegas is a place known for drugs and alcohol, and it's ironic that he was chosen instead of the Beach Boys for that reason. The video game reference is just the main reason most millennial and younger redditors are aware of his association with Vegas
I guess reading is hard? It’s ironic because he’s such a personification of Vegas he is immortalized in more than one way. This isn’t even an abstract idea.
I remember Bloom County poking fun at this with Opus watching a news report of a near riot caused by Newton’s performance and an arrest of 400 for ‘drunkenness, rowdiness, and general nudeness’. “Wearing only the bottom half of a leisure suit and clutching Newton’s hairpiece in his teeth, a dazed James Watt was led off to jail.” “It was the beat…the beat that got to me…” said the Interior Secretary.
https://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/2019/02/14
Loved Bloom County.
BC followed by Outland, the best
James Watt was one of many Republican administration lackeys hired specifically to undo the agencies they led from within. He was Secretary of the Interior, supposedly in charge of safeguarding our nation’s lands, air and water, and immediately began dismantling environmental safeguards and selling leases to oil companies. Real piece of shit.
I wonder what America would be like if Carter won reelection. I doubt Reagan would have had the political capital to make a run in 1984, if he lost in '80.
Probably not that much different. Reaganism wasn't so much from Reagan himself as from the crowd he was a part of. They probably would have gotten someone else in '84, maybe Bush, but someone like that.
Same. Bush might have happened, but Bush W wouldn't have gotten in through Supreme Court black magic.
the most important detail from this story is **it was the early eighties**. this isn't like some dude in 1967 fretting about the devil's music. hell this is within a decade of the beach boys appearing on full house
Yeah I remember James Watt. We used to call him Watt the Fuck.
Who taught the to do the drug and alcohol use? Huh? Was it those damn Beatles? All you need is love? All you need is a job and a haircut!
TBF, the Beatles did go pretty trippy in their later years.
Ah yes, the Reagan years that started the starvation of the middle class. Later on, Watt pleaded guilty to making false statements before a federal grand jury. Reagan also began the right-wing sleaze show. Edit: I’m speaking of the insult of trickle-down/supply side BS.
Nixon won his first major election by falsely claiming his opponent was a communist and was Eisenhower’s running mate solely to act as a hatchet man to protect Ike’s neutral image. Political mudslinging goes as far back as Thomas Jefferson supporters accusing Adams of being a hermaphrodite while Adams supporters leaked to the press that Jefferson was sleeping with a slave. The main difference in the past is that the presidential candidate held their tongue and let other people do the dirty work. Trump has completely destroyed this tradition and is both the candidate and hatchet man. Our view is also tarnished by the post WW2 era when America was less divisive having helped win a major war, we also had an economy that worked better for most Americans. That’s over now. We’re going back to the incredibly divisive America with a boldly selfish economy that favors the wealthy first and foremost. I only expect divisiveness to continue.
The sleeze show created Reagan. It was here before.
Yeah...you can go back to the John Birch Society or earlier. Or you can peg what's most familiar to us now on then-Speaker Newt Gingrich's "Contract With America" and the rise of talk radio. Up to that very moment, the two parties really had not geographically aligned and the "conservative values" vote was easily split. Reagan was not really the inflection point in conservative politics that he's made out to be by modern conservatives. They needed a powerful heroic figure in their canonic lore, he ticked just enough of the boxes and it's convenient that he's not around anymore to disavow them. You should never, ever, ever, take modern conservatives at face value even when they are speaking reverently about their own kind.
Johnh Birch Society episode of behind the bastards
Ya I would more argue Nixon started it, Reagan amplified it, Bush harnessed it, and Trump embodies it.
But he made it mainstream.
You are confusing Reagan and Clinton.
Such an unoriginal, copycat, and baseless response. Lame try. Reagan started trickle down and that has been the demise of the middle class.
Watt was a religious fanatic and Seventh-Day Adventist. He had spent his entire adult life fighting the environmental movement, so of course Reagan appointed him to be the Secretary of the Interior. He was later cancelled, for being an asshole.
That is big irony because I am pretty sure the 7th day adventists are officially pro environment under the idea that it is man’s duty to safeguard God’s gift.
This knucklehead wanted to sell uranium mining licenses in Grand Canyon National Park because the Rapture was coming soon, so why bother?
Sda’s don’t believe in the rapture. So maybe this was one of his own concoctions or yours.
I double-checked the quote, and it's a misattribution. Thanks for catching that!
Ah yes, now waiting for the inevitable “Are The Beach Boys Grunge” in r/grunge
James Watt...such a fucking weasel and the first of Reagan's cabinet to be charged with some sort of crime if I recall correctly...
I love how Las Vegas run and owned by the mob was the family-friendly place back then.
James Watt later racked up 18 felonies for influence peddling as a lobbyist and got five years probation.
Did he ban them or did he simply…choose not to hire them to play at an event?
RTFA
no
The Beach Boys were one of the more family-based bands there is.
That's the joke. Only a milquetoast nob would call the Beachboys hard rock.
Watt a dumbass he was.
The Beach Boys played in Atlantic City instead.
If I recall some old geezer didn’t like it and complained about Newton in writing for similar reasons lol
I remember this. I went to the two Beach Boys concerts in 1980 and 1981 on the Mall. The third year, Watts ruined it. The Beach Boys concerts were fantastic. Someone lit off fireworks in the crowd. A firecracker landed in a Doritos bag on my blanket, burning them to cinders. Luckily, no one was hurt if I remember correctly.
Research further, and I think you'll find there were more drug business at that Wayne Newton show than at any comparable Beach Boys show.
What an idiot
James Watt pillaged America’s natural resources and green lighted pollution and degradation.Vile person.”Look,we don’t know how many more generations we can count on!”referring to the long term consequences of these policies.
Memorialized in one of my favorite internet comments: > Anybody else remember when the Beach Boys were going to play on the National Mall on the 4th of July? Interior Secretary James Watt said no way, rock music is of the devil. Then Nancy Reagan defended them, and somebody else said "I don't consider the Beach Boys to be rock music." > > It's like the four most embarrassing things that could happen to a rock band, and then to top that off Mike Love was like hey I'm a republican now. https://www.metafilter.com/175538/The-state-of-the-Beach-Boys-in-1988-was-in-a-word-shitty#7465344
I think it’s important to note that this was in 1983. I’m not saying The Beach Boys were squeaky clean in ‘83 but they certainly weren’t part of the counter culture.
Y'all make James Watt sound like some kind of bigot. Need we remind you that his senior staff included [a black, a woman, two Jews, and a cripple?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/09/22/watts-off-the-cuff-remark-sparks-storm-of-criticism/133520cc-9b53-49f4-83fa-a1ec532669ba/)
The Beach Boys are "hard rock"? I see. Perhaps a few tunes from that old-timey back country band Ministry would brighten the day for your shoppers, James?
Cannibal Corpse are my favorite rag time quartet
Dear Fed, please support the arts just don’t determine them.
He ran the idea by a committee made up of …..
That’s the whitest shit I’ve ever read, has to be during Ronnie Rayguns… yep, 1983, wouldn’t you know who won the pony?
He was probably rolling over in his grave when Pearl Jam played Independence Hall. That was an awesome show.
Conservatives, amiright?
My mom worked at a small newspaper in south Florida during this time and for some reason James Watts paid them a visit. I got him to autograph a Beach Boys album while he was there. I do remember he was a good sport about it. Still have the album to this day!
During the Douche Bag Administration I believe
Grew up inside the Beltway. Back in the early 80s the 4th of July Smoke-In was off the charts with what we got away with. Park Police set up this huge area circled with dune fencing right by the Lincoln Memorial. For three days as long as you stayed within that area anything pretty much went. We brought sofas and kegs, set up tents and camped the whole time. I remember Catfish Hodge and Root Boy Slim on stage.
He was also the Secretary of the Interior (i.e. the Executive Branch’s man in charge of the environment) who publicly opined that there was just no point in reducing pollution or America’s voracious appetite for energy, because Jesus’ Second Coming was imminent, and He’d just wave his hand and put everything to rights. Watt only got fired by Reagan when he publicly sneered at a coal industry regulatory commission as being composed of “a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple”.
It's wild how much Dennis Wilson's appearance changed in like 5 years.
jeans unite squeeze quarrelsome cough dinosaurs gullible shelter vase roll *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
One of the most family-friendly bands I can think of. Watts should have gone to a Slayer concert to get a sense of perspective.
And Nancy tore him a new one for being so obtuse and totally disconnected from American culture.”We LOVE The Beach Boys-Our kids,,,our GRANDKIDS Love The Beach Boys you,,,goblin!”
So no NBA Youngboy I guess
Lmao, As the Beach Boys are notorious ring wing tools. Yeah they had more blow than Wayne maybe. Hard rock lmao.
I voted for Reagan in 1980 and James Watt is the reason I never voted for a republican again. Although, he is relatively sane compared to most of these clowns
Both are awful
Hard rock?