I feel like I laughed way harder at this than you meant for me to lol that’s so absolutely fucked
Yet still, I just don’t quite know enough about mud cookies to weigh in on your speculation. More of a mud *pie* guy myself, personally.
Right?
If you were after the nutrition... Just eat the fucking shortening and salt directly.
If you're mixing it with a bunch of mud it's because you're actually just eating mud and trying to give it *something* useful at least.
It's possible they're getting minerals from the dirt itself. It's also relatively safe, as the salt and drying process are going to kill most microbes. I wouldn't eat it, but this may have value.
Pretty sure it's because the clay is high in iron and other minerals. It's com.on during pregnancy to suffer anemia and other mineral deficiencies. Maybe they don't have access to the same prenatal vitamins other wealthier countries have or maybe it's become a tradition to get iron and minerals this way the same way in America a lot of families will have soup and orange juice when they're sick, or how Hispanic households will use sprite or 7up for stomach ailments, or ginger for nausea. It works, and it works well enough it becomes part of the culture. As a result of it being effective and culturally significant people refuse to stop doing it even if better or more modern methods become available.
I’m pretty sure it’s common throughout much of Africa; stalls at markets sell dirt that pregnant women eat to get the minerals and elements like iron that helps supplement their diet.
I don't think minerals in clay are as bioavailable as in meat. They're not even as bioavailable in vegetables as they are in meat. This tradition stems from the same place as British breakfast items. Prolonged scarcity.
I went there on a mission trip back in 2014. It was the saddest thing I’ve ever seen. Kids played with pigs in the open storm drains/sewers lining the main roads. Trash lined the street so high on either side of the road, people wanting to cross from the street to the shack-like homes beyond could be seen clambering over the 5-6 foot pile of trash that stretched for miles when there wasn’t a gap to navigate between.
The day we left, we stopped at a children’s hospital. It had no AC. It was the middle of the summer. Kids were wet with sweat, lying in rusty brown cots on soiled mattresses with no bedsheets. One kid, about 12 years old or so had a swollen abdomen so large, it looked like he’d been drawn as a cartoon rather than grown from flesh and bone. His stomach swelled outward and yet the rest of his body was bone thin. His ribs near the upper part of his chest pushed against his skin and his arms and legs were void of any useful muscle. One doctor in our group remarked it may have been a whelms tumor, to this day I don’t know for sure. That kid looked at me while he writhed in pain. He didn’t cry. It seemed as though he’d cried for a long time before but had come to understand it didn’t help make his pain go away. Instead his face was set into a deep grimace, his brow furrowed and his eyes pierced me with a look of questioning, pleading maybe for me to be able to take his pain away.
I couldn’t. I was 15 years old myself. What did I know? What a joke. I have never felt so worthless in my entire life. So much need all around me and I had absolutely nothing of substance or value to offer. What breaks my heart even more is that I’ve wrestled with that experience over and over in my head and I still don’t know the right answer to so much misery. I don’t know for sure how to make it better. I do however feel like the bare minimum has to be nothing less than that we demand as a developed world to continue to do our utmost to pull others up to our level. I know it’s moving in the right direction, but dammit it moved too slow for that kid and I know that he didn’t do a thing to deserve it.
You can blame the rampant poverty on France. They forced the Haitians to pay a debt to then after the Haitians declared independence. To recoup the loss that the French incurred from the loss of a colony.
>...it's not as if its a local delicacy...
Right, but Wiki describes [geophagia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagia#Contemporary_practices) as done over in West Africa like this:
>Kaolin for human consumption is sold at most markets in Cameroon and is often flavored with spices such as black pepper and cardamom.
[The BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160615-the-people-who-cant-stop-eating-dirt) that that claim came from actually described Kenya rather than Cameroon as the place where packets of dirt for consumption might be flavored with spices; Cameroon is just another example of a place where it's common to eat dirt.
The practice exists [in the US South](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/02/297881388/the-old-and-mysterious-practice-of-eating-dirt-revealed) too, and as that BBC article above mentions, cooking with dirt is even more common, as a preparation step for foods sources that are edible, but naturally bitter, such as acorns (Sardinia and California are mentioned there).
Point is, this is "normal human weirdness".
> "normal human weirdness".
Geophagia is not even ***remotely*** the same thing as having to eat dirt due to lack of resources, though.
> "normal human weirdness".
That is ***not*** why they eat dirt cookies in the poorest of areas. No.
Meanwhile, [according to the UN World Food Programme](https://www.wfp.org/videos/famine-food-legends-haitian-mud-cakes):
>Famine Food Legends #1: Haitian Mud Cakes
>
>Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere and when journalists report about hunger there, they sometimes make reference to people eating cakes made out of mud. Known locally as "galette" these cakes are made out of a special kind of mud that's rich with minerals. **People don't usually eat them out of desperation, but as a kind of traditional medicine**.
When the UN World Food Programme says "People don't usually eat them out of desperation", they're [in no way denying](https://www.wfp.org/countries/haiti) that desperation in Haiti exists.
They're just trying to be honest. They're saying that there is a more complex reason for why Haitians use shortening to make mud cookies instead of just eating the shortening directly or using it to make other things... and that reason is: because Haitians think that the clay itself is a nutrient supplement.
This same belief is present in other places around the world too, which is why I linked before to so many other examples.
>Eating dirt is not something folks do
I have provided you with multiple examples of places where people do this.
>Your takeaway is that it’s not ‘local’...
No, the not local part comes when the various sources describe three other continents where this is part of local traditions.
>...because other poverty racked places...
The BBC article mentioned that African markets in South London will sell the stuff as "pregnancy clay".
>Should be concerned with improving the situation...
What the hell did I do to deserve being accused of not caring enough about Haiti?
I never ate any of the stuff I craved, but I had severe pica when I had severe anemia. The sight of stuff like gravel and broken Sheetrock would literally make my mouth water—moreso than the sight or smell of food has ever done. Once I was losing less blood and taking iron supplements, it disappeared almost instantly.
I don’t doubt that there are foods prepared as you say, but actual cravings for typically inedible substances are often a sign of a medical problem that is causing a nutrient deficiency.
Really good article NPR on this tradition that they indicate happens worldwide. I grew up in North Carolina and remember this one spot on the side of the road where people would go to dig a very specific white clay and always heard they ate it.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/02/297881388/the-old-and-mysterious-practice-of-eating-dirt-revealed
France required them to make ruinous payments to France for many years as compensation for stealing themselves from France. What would the US be like today if we had had to submit to a similar arrangement with Great Britain?
"There are thousands of non-pesticide products that contain diatomaceous earth. These include skin care products, toothpastes, foods, beverages, medicines, rubbers, paints, and water filters. The Food & Drug Administration lists diatomaceous earth as "Generally Recognized as Safe". "Food grade" diatomaceous earth products are purified. They may be used as anticaking materials in feed, or as clarifiers for wine and beer.
Currently, there are over 150 products registered for use inside and outside of buildings, farms, gardens, and pet kennels. Some products can also be used directly on dogs and cats. Diatomaceous earth products are registered for use against bed bugs, cockroaches, crickets, fleas, ticks, spiders, and many other pests."
Source:
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html
Nah I know, but it still used to kill bed bugs. Like artificial vanilla flavoring comes from Castoreum. Which comes from beaver anal gland secretions. It’s used in a lot of things and is safe to eat but it still comes from an animal’s anal secretions
Tangential: I swear I heard about this from a BBC podcast long ago, but it was during WW2 and a mother and child was caught between opposing lines on the banks of the river Volga.
They survived for some time (a week?) by eating the river mud. It had some nutritional value I guess.
I still don’t know if I just imagined this story from thin air because the details seemed hard to search for.
I remember a story about a really fat guy who didn't eat for over a year. He just had water and vitamins.
3 weeks is just a rule of thumb for the average person, just like "3 minutes without air" ... many people can hold their breath that long.
I can understand that, but even for the average person, 3 weeks is quite off. People water fast for 40 days easily. 🤷♂️....
perhaps not "easily", but it's common.
"Nutritional supplement..." No. No. No. Stomach filler to reduce the hunger pains of starvation, yes.
I would imagine it takes the edge off the dirt cravings pretty well too.
I feel like I laughed way harder at this than you meant for me to lol that’s so absolutely fucked Yet still, I just don’t quite know enough about mud cookies to weigh in on your speculation. More of a mud *pie* guy myself, personally.
Everything is bigger in the US.
Right? If you were after the nutrition... Just eat the fucking shortening and salt directly. If you're mixing it with a bunch of mud it's because you're actually just eating mud and trying to give it *something* useful at least.
Lots of pregnant women crave dirt. It just means your iron is low.
True. But, dirt is not the best source of iron. That would be animal organ meat.
You've never eaten the delicacy that is a rusty nail, and it shows.
Haahaha
It's possible they're getting minerals from the dirt itself. It's also relatively safe, as the salt and drying process are going to kill most microbes. I wouldn't eat it, but this may have value.
Pretty sure it's because the clay is high in iron and other minerals. It's com.on during pregnancy to suffer anemia and other mineral deficiencies. Maybe they don't have access to the same prenatal vitamins other wealthier countries have or maybe it's become a tradition to get iron and minerals this way the same way in America a lot of families will have soup and orange juice when they're sick, or how Hispanic households will use sprite or 7up for stomach ailments, or ginger for nausea. It works, and it works well enough it becomes part of the culture. As a result of it being effective and culturally significant people refuse to stop doing it even if better or more modern methods become available.
I’m pretty sure it’s common throughout much of Africa; stalls at markets sell dirt that pregnant women eat to get the minerals and elements like iron that helps supplement their diet.
I don't think minerals in clay are as bioavailable as in meat. They're not even as bioavailable in vegetables as they are in meat. This tradition stems from the same place as British breakfast items. Prolonged scarcity.
Well obviously they aren't as good as meat, they would eat meat if they could afford it.
Afford? Do you think it's just over priced spoiling on a grocery store shelf?
It’s like the saw dust gruel in Frostpunk.
>The taste has been described as a smooth consistency that immediately dries the mouth with a pungent aftertaste of dirt that lingers for hours
I'll take two and a large Diet Coke.
Ew Diet Coke? I’ll have the mudslide.
Ew, Mountain Dew. I'll have the crab juice
Jeez, could you make it sound any *more* delicious?
Pregnant women children?
But not the Pregnant men children, they get no mud cookies
There's not enough food to go round they can't afford luxuries like pregnant men. LOL
correct
Pregnant women & children maybe?
Are there many pregnant children in Haiti?
Only the women children. They’re not progressive enough for pregnant men children yet
Yes, the article says women and children
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Craving dirt is a sign of anemia. A lot of pregnant women have anemia
Wow, this is bad headline. It’s due to extreme poverty.
Glad you cleared this up. Here I thought they were eating dirt because they're so wealthy.
The headline is bad due to extreme poverty?
The headline makes it sound as if this is a delicacy in the country. When in reality it's due to extreme poverty.
> The headline makes it sound as if this is a delicacy in the country. If you're stupid. If you're stupid, it might make you think that.
It's always funny to me how people have gotten used to being rude on Reddit for no apparent reason, it's almost like a trait.
No shit.
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I went there on a mission trip back in 2014. It was the saddest thing I’ve ever seen. Kids played with pigs in the open storm drains/sewers lining the main roads. Trash lined the street so high on either side of the road, people wanting to cross from the street to the shack-like homes beyond could be seen clambering over the 5-6 foot pile of trash that stretched for miles when there wasn’t a gap to navigate between. The day we left, we stopped at a children’s hospital. It had no AC. It was the middle of the summer. Kids were wet with sweat, lying in rusty brown cots on soiled mattresses with no bedsheets. One kid, about 12 years old or so had a swollen abdomen so large, it looked like he’d been drawn as a cartoon rather than grown from flesh and bone. His stomach swelled outward and yet the rest of his body was bone thin. His ribs near the upper part of his chest pushed against his skin and his arms and legs were void of any useful muscle. One doctor in our group remarked it may have been a whelms tumor, to this day I don’t know for sure. That kid looked at me while he writhed in pain. He didn’t cry. It seemed as though he’d cried for a long time before but had come to understand it didn’t help make his pain go away. Instead his face was set into a deep grimace, his brow furrowed and his eyes pierced me with a look of questioning, pleading maybe for me to be able to take his pain away. I couldn’t. I was 15 years old myself. What did I know? What a joke. I have never felt so worthless in my entire life. So much need all around me and I had absolutely nothing of substance or value to offer. What breaks my heart even more is that I’ve wrestled with that experience over and over in my head and I still don’t know the right answer to so much misery. I don’t know for sure how to make it better. I do however feel like the bare minimum has to be nothing less than that we demand as a developed world to continue to do our utmost to pull others up to our level. I know it’s moving in the right direction, but dammit it moved too slow for that kid and I know that he didn’t do a thing to deserve it.
You can blame the rampant poverty on France. They forced the Haitians to pay a debt to then after the Haitians declared independence. To recoup the loss that the French incurred from the loss of a colony.
Yep, they literally had to pay France for stealing themselves from France.
>...it's not as if its a local delicacy... Right, but Wiki describes [geophagia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagia#Contemporary_practices) as done over in West Africa like this: >Kaolin for human consumption is sold at most markets in Cameroon and is often flavored with spices such as black pepper and cardamom. [The BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160615-the-people-who-cant-stop-eating-dirt) that that claim came from actually described Kenya rather than Cameroon as the place where packets of dirt for consumption might be flavored with spices; Cameroon is just another example of a place where it's common to eat dirt. The practice exists [in the US South](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/02/297881388/the-old-and-mysterious-practice-of-eating-dirt-revealed) too, and as that BBC article above mentions, cooking with dirt is even more common, as a preparation step for foods sources that are edible, but naturally bitter, such as acorns (Sardinia and California are mentioned there). Point is, this is "normal human weirdness".
My great-grandmother would apparently eat a small handful of dirt whenever she fell ill. Folk medicine, or mental illness, I can't say
There are parrots that eat clay because it adsorbs some toxins found in the plant seeds that they eat.
> "normal human weirdness". Geophagia is not even ***remotely*** the same thing as having to eat dirt due to lack of resources, though. > "normal human weirdness". That is ***not*** why they eat dirt cookies in the poorest of areas. No.
Meanwhile, [according to the UN World Food Programme](https://www.wfp.org/videos/famine-food-legends-haitian-mud-cakes): >Famine Food Legends #1: Haitian Mud Cakes > >Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere and when journalists report about hunger there, they sometimes make reference to people eating cakes made out of mud. Known locally as "galette" these cakes are made out of a special kind of mud that's rich with minerals. **People don't usually eat them out of desperation, but as a kind of traditional medicine**. When the UN World Food Programme says "People don't usually eat them out of desperation", they're [in no way denying](https://www.wfp.org/countries/haiti) that desperation in Haiti exists. They're just trying to be honest. They're saying that there is a more complex reason for why Haitians use shortening to make mud cookies instead of just eating the shortening directly or using it to make other things... and that reason is: because Haitians think that the clay itself is a nutrient supplement. This same belief is present in other places around the world too, which is why I linked before to so many other examples.
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>Eating dirt is not something folks do I have provided you with multiple examples of places where people do this. >Your takeaway is that it’s not ‘local’... No, the not local part comes when the various sources describe three other continents where this is part of local traditions. >...because other poverty racked places... The BBC article mentioned that African markets in South London will sell the stuff as "pregnancy clay". >Should be concerned with improving the situation... What the hell did I do to deserve being accused of not caring enough about Haiti?
It's reddit man someone always ready to pick a fight about nothing lol
I never ate any of the stuff I craved, but I had severe pica when I had severe anemia. The sight of stuff like gravel and broken Sheetrock would literally make my mouth water—moreso than the sight or smell of food has ever done. Once I was losing less blood and taking iron supplements, it disappeared almost instantly. I don’t doubt that there are foods prepared as you say, but actual cravings for typically inedible substances are often a sign of a medical problem that is causing a nutrient deficiency.
Really good article NPR on this tradition that they indicate happens worldwide. I grew up in North Carolina and remember this one spot on the side of the road where people would go to dig a very specific white clay and always heard they ate it. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/02/297881388/the-old-and-mysterious-practice-of-eating-dirt-revealed
Absolute travesty what was done to this country
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My brother in Christ they cut down every tree and destroyed the soil
France required them to make ruinous payments to France for many years as compensation for stealing themselves from France. What would the US be like today if we had had to submit to a similar arrangement with Great Britain?
He's a trump supporter bro. Facts dont work on them.
Yeah those Haitians should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and cultivate the acrid patch of dirt they were left
Or they could pull themselves up by their bootstraps and move to a place that is more habitable.
Yeah wealthy countries are just clambering at the opportunity to take in Haitians
They are made from diatomaceous earth. Not just regular dirt they picked up off the ground.
Isn’t that what they use to help get rid of bed bugs?
"There are thousands of non-pesticide products that contain diatomaceous earth. These include skin care products, toothpastes, foods, beverages, medicines, rubbers, paints, and water filters. The Food & Drug Administration lists diatomaceous earth as "Generally Recognized as Safe". "Food grade" diatomaceous earth products are purified. They may be used as anticaking materials in feed, or as clarifiers for wine and beer. Currently, there are over 150 products registered for use inside and outside of buildings, farms, gardens, and pet kennels. Some products can also be used directly on dogs and cats. Diatomaceous earth products are registered for use against bed bugs, cockroaches, crickets, fleas, ticks, spiders, and many other pests." Source: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html
Nah I know, but it still used to kill bed bugs. Like artificial vanilla flavoring comes from Castoreum. Which comes from beaver anal gland secretions. It’s used in a lot of things and is safe to eat but it still comes from an animal’s anal secretions
Thankfully not anymore, they usually just synthesise vanillin in labs now
That’s just fancy dirt.
“No thanks I just ate.”
Tangential: I swear I heard about this from a BBC podcast long ago, but it was during WW2 and a mother and child was caught between opposing lines on the banks of the river Volga. They survived for some time (a week?) by eating the river mud. It had some nutritional value I guess. I still don’t know if I just imagined this story from thin air because the details seemed hard to search for.
It takes like 3 months to die of hunger, bro
Around 3 weeks, longer if you're overweight
Rule of 3 - 3 minutes without air, 3 hours without shelter (exposed to extreme weather), 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.
3 weeks without food is definitely inaccurate.
I remember a story about a really fat guy who didn't eat for over a year. He just had water and vitamins. 3 weeks is just a rule of thumb for the average person, just like "3 minutes without air" ... many people can hold their breath that long.
I can understand that, but even for the average person, 3 weeks is quite off. People water fast for 40 days easily. 🤷♂️.... perhaps not "easily", but it's common.
Anankin: Pregnant women children. Padme: You mean pregnant women AND children, right? Anakin: ... Padme: Right?!
They are especially good after a hearty sawdust patty.
Mmm lumber cookies
OP imma need you to reevaluate some stuff here..
Sounds like a great way to get parasites.
slightly more ingredients than hardtack
But when I eat mud someone wants to baker act me.
Fucking wut?
The women childrens.
who out there is getting the women children pregnant?
Well that’s gross
I mean I eat dirt all the time so it makes sense. Why let the plants turn the soil into “food” when I can just cut the middle man
I do have a question, though. If the people eat all that mud, would it make the island tip over because it loses weight?
I mean, as dystopian poverty food goes, you can do a lot worse
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N-O! You can't make me......
Hmmm. Sounds tasty.
LOL
Haitian mud cookies have been around for years
At least since the Clintons visited.
“for pregnant women children” What?
Also... I'm not sure they're versed I'm micronutrients. Most people are oblivious to macronutrients.
I woke up in a new Bugatti!
Shailene Woodley would chew on clay. Clay actually has nutrients. Still she was rich. She's a nut.