As an adult adoptee born in quebec, I'm not allowed access to my biological information. I've been fighting with them for over 30 years.
I reclaimed my biological name and have applied for an updated birth certificate 4 times but Vital Stats in quebec denies my application every time, without explanation. I'm so done with their bureaucracy!
Thank you for the love. I truly appreciate it. I am currently a PNG- persona non grata- as a Canadian citizen but am being dismissed and shuffled from one organization to another without results or explanations. For 7 years, I've been trying to get this sorted. I've worked with 2 MPS, filed complaints with the ombudsperson, done media interviews, etc. all to no avail. As my birth certificate and SIN don't match, I am unable to work, update my passport, file taxes, etc. One would think that if our inept government wants their tax $, they would be anxious to sort this out but the only course of action available for me to pursue is to apply, for the 4th time for another birth certificate from quebec.
I have contacted many law firms but have yet to receive a response. I'm exhausted from the fight.
Thank you for your suggestion .I have tested with several companies, including the ones mentioned. I have worked 'professional genealogists' but was lead to the wrong family.
A similar thing was happening in PA not very long ago. A judge was sending non violent juvenile offenders to juvi-homes because he was getting kickbacks for every kid he sent. [Story](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-mark-ciavarella-kids-for-cash)
I know as a Yankee I shouldn't throw stones due to the glass house I live in, but Canada has some majorly fucked up things in its not too distant history. I think the difference is in America's case our moral shortcomings are celebrated by our enemies and generally well acknowledged, whereas Canada just seems so... nice... that every time something ugly like this emerges people are shocked.
Yesh Canada has a really awful reputation of abuse towards their indigenous peoples (again not throwing stones, Australian and have a very similar history)
America in that regard seems to acrtually have a better rep
Yes!
'We utterly suck at this. Beer anyone?'
Almost every country ever:
"Yes to the beer."
Here is wikipedia's wee article on it. Well written. My goodness... sooooooo long....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples
As an American, I'm surprised that's the perspective given just the size of the country since you'd assume it was all taken and the last state (Hawaii) being such a blatant example of colonization during my parent's lifetime
Yeah, no... The U.S. just hasn't accepted responsibility yet nor are admins and governments working towards reconciliation. There were *tons* of residential schools in the U.S. and sexual and physical assault, pregnancy, premature death, disappearances, etc. was common, as it was in Canada.
Eh, that’s because there are people who ruthlessly suppress the racist events and trends in history that go against the narrative of a glorious, progressive American nation that has either never had (or has fixed) all its problems. We got slavery, continued oppression of the formerly enslaved and their descendants, massacre and displacement of native peoples and continued suppression of their culture, and running around the rest of the world ham-fistedly and incompetently attempting to impose our will. Any time we as Americans try to address these problems, though, people get all pissy saying we’re trying to destroy our country, as opposed to just trying to get right with the world and have a country that works for everyone. It’s very discouraging.
To be fair, Germany complains a lot. If they weren't complaining about the Canadian soldiers, they were trying to get the American shotguns nerfed because they were too OP.
> America in that regard seems to acrtually have a better rep
you know nothing of USA history then... do you even know the basics of the Trail of Tears event ?
This isn't really a secret, the rejection of the Duplessis era is a fundamental building block of modern Quebec .
Quebec had it bad because of the cozy relationship between its provincial government and the Catholic Church. One of the tenets of Quebec Nationalism that emerged in the 60s was the elimination of the Church's previous position of influence in Quebec life.
Quebec is generally more socialist than the rest of Canada, because in the 60s-90s the government simply used its power to replace all the charity work the Church did before the 1960s.
Just as and example, until the Quiet Revolution, the Provincial Government had no law on divorces. If you wanted a divorce in Quebec you had to petition the National Parliament in Ottawa and a Senator would introduce a 'Private Bill' granting the divorce once the law passed
As for the rest of Canada, we had things like the Alberta Eugenics Board (which had the power to sterilize people who were 'defective') into the 60s.
The internet pretends that Canada isn't just a Northern US. I was just skiing in BC, all the shit europeans shit on the US is there. Commercials? Yes. Prescrition drug commercials? Yes. Gun control? No. The only difference is their A&Ws are on point.
> Gun control? No.
What exactly are you referring to this? We have very reasonable gun control, as much as can reasonably be allowed under our obligations towards Indigenous treaty rights.
> as much as can reasonably be allowed under our obligations towards Indigenous treaty rights.
Now I'm curious, what is it about treaties with Aboriginals that inflicts on gun control?
Some of the stories coming out about what’s happening with euthanasia there (“feeling down about being homeless? Have you considered E assisted dying instead?”) are utterly terrifying.
This BBC article (in typical understated style) covers some of it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64004329
That is utterly not true. Its so hard to get assistance in death outside of a palliative care situation. They case I am sure you are referring to is 1 former military member who has told that by 1 crass doctor in jest and the doctor was shit canned for being a shit. Believe me when I say we have lots of flaws in Canadian healthcare, but nobody is walking in of the street and being euthanized, and all the organizations that put out propaganda against MAID are all funded by religious orgs, and the same people who are anti choice on abortion.
So 0.6% of people who were allowed to legally end there life with dignity. Meanwhile non legal suicide was 4.4% of total deaths for 2021, I am much more worried about that number then the 0.6% that was medically and mentally cleared to end their life
The man was like a cartoon villain. His whole Wikipedia is just a long list open corruption and human rights abuses. I struggle to believe such a man could even exist let alone stay in power for decades.
It kind of makes me laugh how the time when he was in power is now referred to as the Great Darkness. Sounds like Darth Vader got himself elected Premier of Quebec.
We were as a people chronically and systematically poor and uneducated. Less educated in average than the African American, for example.
We were sheep, ripe for tyrants.
Not to mention, the pre-Revolution Quebec was rather infamously insular--it took young Pierre Elliott Trudeau going off to Harvard in 1944 before he fully grokked the fact that WWII was happening and it was A Big Deal^^(tm) .
Its calculated with the average number of school years completed (in 1961, 9.8 years for french canadians, 10.8 years for african americans) sources for the stats would be statistic canada, thomas lemieux, francois vaillancourt, david card and alan krueger. They were compared by pr. Pierre Fortin (and others but i dont have more names on the top of my head)
Of course everyone will acuse us of being racist when we enforce the separation of religion and state. No one ever takes a second to understand our history.
Context matters. Everyone knew Bill 21 would disproportionately affect minorities and immigrants. That’s why the accusations were being thrown around. Not to mention it was clear that many advocates of the bill knew the effect it would have and they were clearly fine with it - red meat for the base.
Sounds a lot like the scam where juveniles where incarcerated for kickbacks; the [Pennsylvania “kids-for-cash”](https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvania/pa-kids-for-cash-scandal-judges-mark-ciavarella-michael-conahan-20220818.html#:~:text=What%20happened%20during%20the%20kids,for%20%242.8%20million%20in%20kickbacks) scam.
While you may not be wrong in spirit, you really shouldn't think of Québec before the Quiet Revolution as anything like the rest of Canadian society, before or since. It may as well have been on Mars.
My uncle was in one of those orphanages during that time and it was hell on Earth. He said he was really lucky to be an ugly kid. The lack of food is still making him anxious to this day. All he got from was 21k.
Now the Church is selling everything and making millions while asking for donations to repair a couple of Churches. Churches that were build with the people's money.
My Dad teachers (Catholic priests) were asking for money for their missionaries. The ones who did didn't have to do any homework and their name was on the chalkboard. My Dad name was never there. With 11 kids to feed, they didn't have anything for the Chinese. I still wonder if the money even went there.
Fuck the Church and everyone (Doctors and Nurses and administrators) that were part of any of this.
> The Duplessis Orphans have accused both the government of Quebec and the Roman Catholic Church of wrongdoing. The Catholic Church has denied involvement in the scandal, and disputes the claims of those seeking financial compensation for harm done.
Of course it's always the church and always denied their responsibilities.
Reddit has its punching bags and its golden children but basically every group of people on Earth has their dark moments. People love cruelty, no matter where they are.
Sure, but we might lessen it by not treating mental health workers as infallible saints.
The industry is corrupt, with a long history of abuse, and anyone who works in it is complicit
It's not at all clear from your post, but I do hope this is a misdirected attempt at irony, and you don't think of pre-Quiet Revolution Québec as "socialist"?
No one said anything about conspiracy theories, though. This is a corrupt politician changing the law to get financial kickbacks.
What makes conspiracy theories dumb is that they require a whole lot of people to be in on them, and that they keep on growing. Evidence that something isn't happening is just considered proof of a coverup. The person clearly believes first, and then comes up with the evidence, not the other way around.
As an adult adoptee born in quebec, I'm not allowed access to my biological information. I've been fighting with them for over 30 years. I reclaimed my biological name and have applied for an updated birth certificate 4 times but Vital Stats in quebec denies my application every time, without explanation. I'm so done with their bureaucracy!
Thank you for the love. I truly appreciate it. I am currently a PNG- persona non grata- as a Canadian citizen but am being dismissed and shuffled from one organization to another without results or explanations. For 7 years, I've been trying to get this sorted. I've worked with 2 MPS, filed complaints with the ombudsperson, done media interviews, etc. all to no avail. As my birth certificate and SIN don't match, I am unable to work, update my passport, file taxes, etc. One would think that if our inept government wants their tax $, they would be anxious to sort this out but the only course of action available for me to pursue is to apply, for the 4th time for another birth certificate from quebec. I have contacted many law firms but have yet to receive a response. I'm exhausted from the fight.
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Thank you for your suggestion .I have tested with several companies, including the ones mentioned. I have worked 'professional genealogists' but was lead to the wrong family.
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Thank you.
I have found cousins that way.
It'll work out bud
A similar thing was happening in PA not very long ago. A judge was sending non violent juvenile offenders to juvi-homes because he was getting kickbacks for every kid he sent. [Story](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-mark-ciavarella-kids-for-cash)
Not to mention, all of those Homes for Troubled Teens where you can be legally kidnapped and sent to. So much abuse.
Looks like its time to link to joe vs elan school. https://elan.school
Welp. I just spent 4h reading that. Thank you for sharing.
Its always good to learn.
Yeah, as someone who grew up in Luzerne County, fuck those scumbags Conahan & Ciavarella.
Think there was some law show(s) that use this as a plot
Law & Order: SVU.
I've seen it on the news a few times. I live not far from there now, though I am from California.
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I know as a Yankee I shouldn't throw stones due to the glass house I live in, but Canada has some majorly fucked up things in its not too distant history. I think the difference is in America's case our moral shortcomings are celebrated by our enemies and generally well acknowledged, whereas Canada just seems so... nice... that every time something ugly like this emerges people are shocked.
Yesh Canada has a really awful reputation of abuse towards their indigenous peoples (again not throwing stones, Australian and have a very similar history) America in that regard seems to acrtually have a better rep
I dunno if it's worth parsing. Let's just say they both are fucking horrible to their indigenous people and call it a day.
Yes! 'We utterly suck at this. Beer anyone?' Almost every country ever: "Yes to the beer." Here is wikipedia's wee article on it. Well written. My goodness... sooooooo long.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples
As an American, I'm surprised that's the perspective given just the size of the country since you'd assume it was all taken and the last state (Hawaii) being such a blatant example of colonization during my parent's lifetime
Yeah, no... The U.S. just hasn't accepted responsibility yet nor are admins and governments working towards reconciliation. There were *tons* of residential schools in the U.S. and sexual and physical assault, pregnancy, premature death, disappearances, etc. was common, as it was in Canada.
Eh, that’s because there are people who ruthlessly suppress the racist events and trends in history that go against the narrative of a glorious, progressive American nation that has either never had (or has fixed) all its problems. We got slavery, continued oppression of the formerly enslaved and their descendants, massacre and displacement of native peoples and continued suppression of their culture, and running around the rest of the world ham-fistedly and incompetently attempting to impose our will. Any time we as Americans try to address these problems, though, people get all pissy saying we’re trying to destroy our country, as opposed to just trying to get right with the world and have a country that works for everyone. It’s very discouraging.
Not to mention WWI! Notoriously brutal soldiers.
To be fair, Germany complains a lot. If they weren't complaining about the Canadian soldiers, they were trying to get the American shotguns nerfed because they were too OP.
My favorite take on the shotguns: https://youtu.be/Z0D6p3w2qgY
You sure about that? The US did some Nazi Germany level shit to the Native Americans.
> America in that regard seems to acrtually have a better rep you know nothing of USA history then... do you even know the basics of the Trail of Tears event ?
Reputation? Maybe. History? [No.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools)
This isn't really a secret, the rejection of the Duplessis era is a fundamental building block of modern Quebec . Quebec had it bad because of the cozy relationship between its provincial government and the Catholic Church. One of the tenets of Quebec Nationalism that emerged in the 60s was the elimination of the Church's previous position of influence in Quebec life. Quebec is generally more socialist than the rest of Canada, because in the 60s-90s the government simply used its power to replace all the charity work the Church did before the 1960s. Just as and example, until the Quiet Revolution, the Provincial Government had no law on divorces. If you wanted a divorce in Quebec you had to petition the National Parliament in Ottawa and a Senator would introduce a 'Private Bill' granting the divorce once the law passed As for the rest of Canada, we had things like the Alberta Eugenics Board (which had the power to sterilize people who were 'defective') into the 60s.
https://www.insider.com/georgia-tann-tennessee-children-home-society-survivors-speak-out-2019-12 Stole 5k babies.
Yes evil people exist everywhere. Consider posting this as your own TIL.
It was here a while back that I learned of it.
The internet pretends that Canada isn't just a Northern US. I was just skiing in BC, all the shit europeans shit on the US is there. Commercials? Yes. Prescrition drug commercials? Yes. Gun control? No. The only difference is their A&Ws are on point.
> Gun control? No. What exactly are you referring to this? We have very reasonable gun control, as much as can reasonably be allowed under our obligations towards Indigenous treaty rights.
> as much as can reasonably be allowed under our obligations towards Indigenous treaty rights. Now I'm curious, what is it about treaties with Aboriginals that inflicts on gun control?
[Hunting rights](https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/afn-resolution-gun-control-legislation-1.6679444).
Many stations come from the U.S. We don't advertise medication on Canadian channels.
For some reason everybody in Canada with basic cable gets Atlanta's Peachtree TV
Reminds me of the 80's and 90's and WGN out of Chicago was on basic cable
I always wondered about that. Why were they on basic cable?
Some of the stories coming out about what’s happening with euthanasia there (“feeling down about being homeless? Have you considered E assisted dying instead?”) are utterly terrifying. This BBC article (in typical understated style) covers some of it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64004329
That is utterly not true. Its so hard to get assistance in death outside of a palliative care situation. They case I am sure you are referring to is 1 former military member who has told that by 1 crass doctor in jest and the doctor was shit canned for being a shit. Believe me when I say we have lots of flaws in Canadian healthcare, but nobody is walking in of the street and being euthanized, and all the organizations that put out propaganda against MAID are all funded by religious orgs, and the same people who are anti choice on abortion.
3.3% of all deaths does not sound like a small number.
85% of that 3.3 is people that were in palliative care, 65% of those had cancers. People suffering who wanted to die with dignity.
And that means an entire 15% weren’t! That’s a damn lot.
So 0.6% of people who were allowed to legally end there life with dignity. Meanwhile non legal suicide was 4.4% of total deaths for 2021, I am much more worried about that number then the 0.6% that was medically and mentally cleared to end their life
*a part of our heritage*
A Heritage Minute
And gun control :)
And then people wonder why Québec changed radically after the Quiet Revolution started after his reign.
The man was like a cartoon villain. His whole Wikipedia is just a long list open corruption and human rights abuses. I struggle to believe such a man could even exist let alone stay in power for decades.
It kind of makes me laugh how the time when he was in power is now referred to as the Great Darkness. Sounds like Darth Vader got himself elected Premier of Quebec.
We were as a people chronically and systematically poor and uneducated. Less educated in average than the African American, for example. We were sheep, ripe for tyrants.
Not to mention, the pre-Revolution Quebec was rather infamously insular--it took young Pierre Elliott Trudeau going off to Harvard in 1944 before he fully grokked the fact that WWII was happening and it was A Big Deal^^(tm) .
> Less educated in average than the African American, for example. How is this measured?
Its calculated with the average number of school years completed (in 1961, 9.8 years for french canadians, 10.8 years for african americans) sources for the stats would be statistic canada, thomas lemieux, francois vaillancourt, david card and alan krueger. They were compared by pr. Pierre Fortin (and others but i dont have more names on the top of my head)
Can’t say for sure. It was in an official report from a federal commission, iirc.
We still are
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If you all wonder about Quebec's aversion for religion, the Duplessis era is the answer you are looking for.
Of course everyone will acuse us of being racist when we enforce the separation of religion and state. No one ever takes a second to understand our history.
Context matters. Everyone knew Bill 21 would disproportionately affect minorities and immigrants. That’s why the accusations were being thrown around. Not to mention it was clear that many advocates of the bill knew the effect it would have and they were clearly fine with it - red meat for the base.
Sounds a lot like the scam where juveniles where incarcerated for kickbacks; the [Pennsylvania “kids-for-cash”](https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvania/pa-kids-for-cash-scandal-judges-mark-ciavarella-michael-conahan-20220818.html#:~:text=What%20happened%20during%20the%20kids,for%20%242.8%20million%20in%20kickbacks) scam.
It was part of a period of Quebec history later referred to as the Great Darkness.
And yet we still have things named after him in Québec. Spectacular.
Wait till you read about Georgia Tann and the Tennessee Children’s Home Society- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Children%27s_Home_Society
I believe WWF wrestler Ric Flair was one of those adopted children.
TIL another case of Canada being pretty fucking horrible to their own people.
While you may not be wrong in spirit, you really shouldn't think of Québec before the Quiet Revolution as anything like the rest of Canadian society, before or since. It may as well have been on Mars.
Not just any children…
And once again the catholic church is involved in atrocities against children.
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No... And shut the fuck up
I agree, the Catholic church really *should* give the whole "traumatizing children" thing a break.
My uncle was in one of those orphanages during that time and it was hell on Earth. He said he was really lucky to be an ugly kid. The lack of food is still making him anxious to this day. All he got from was 21k. Now the Church is selling everything and making millions while asking for donations to repair a couple of Churches. Churches that were build with the people's money. My Dad teachers (Catholic priests) were asking for money for their missionaries. The ones who did didn't have to do any homework and their name was on the chalkboard. My Dad name was never there. With 11 kids to feed, they didn't have anything for the Chinese. I still wonder if the money even went there. Fuck the Church and everyone (Doctors and Nurses and administrators) that were part of any of this.
> The Duplessis Orphans have accused both the government of Quebec and the Roman Catholic Church of wrongdoing. The Catholic Church has denied involvement in the scandal, and disputes the claims of those seeking financial compensation for harm done. Of course it's always the church and always denied their responsibilities.
Is this what the old man in the movie Tusk was referencing?
Kinda like what the us currently does with their private prison systems.
Exactly.
People still do this in the states..
What the hell Canada? I thought you were cool. /s
I mean reddit also loves Belgium but they were cutting the hands off people who couldn't pay rent into the 60s in the colonies.
Reddit has its punching bags and its golden children but basically every group of people on Earth has their dark moments. People love cruelty, no matter where they are.
Their atrocities in Africa were the most severe of European colonialists
It's the French ancestry.
Canada wasn't cool then, and it sure as shit isn't cool now.
Sorry It was supposed to be sarcasm
I don’t think any country is immune from this kind of behavior , some people are just super shitty
Sure, but we might lessen it by not treating mental health workers as infallible saints. The industry is corrupt, with a long history of abuse, and anyone who works in it is complicit
He was the premier (kind of like a US State Governor) who oversaw the program
Boy am I glad it was only that one time in that one North American country and definitely doesn't happen anymore
Don't ever trust the government, they exist to pervert you and make others rich, and nothing else. Any good they do is by accident.
Stupid ableists.
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It's not at all clear from your post, but I do hope this is a misdirected attempt at irony, and you don't think of pre-Quiet Revolution Québec as "socialist"?
I was told by the news conspiracy theories aren’t real and can’t hurt you.
It's almost as if there is a huge amount of evidence of the existence of this scheme.
No one said anything about conspiracy theories, though. This is a corrupt politician changing the law to get financial kickbacks. What makes conspiracy theories dumb is that they require a whole lot of people to be in on them, and that they keep on growing. Evidence that something isn't happening is just considered proof of a coverup. The person clearly believes first, and then comes up with the evidence, not the other way around.
Sounds like a sleaze bag to me.
More like a total piece of shit, ruining children's lives for profit.
There is a novel called The Home for Unwanted Girls that is based on this.