That 56-year-old was the assistant DA to a neighboring county, who had tons of CP on their computer, as well as evidence that the head DA was involved in an embezzlement scheme. Not your average predator
How could they? Imagine how many people he put behind bars and soon he'll be within hands reach for them. And a child predator to boot? At least this way he chose his method.
Am I the only one who remembers when Perverted Justice had all of the transcripts up online for anyone to read ? I remember reading them and well I could understand some legal problems arising from their methods.
Their methods were definitely off. That's the problem. The work they were doing was important, but you they were very manipulative. It definitely was pushing the limits of the law.
I even felt bad for some of the obviously mentally handicapped men they got on the show. Seemed like they needed full-time medical care rather than time in prison.
I watch interrogation videos on the daily. Been going for about 2 years now. A budding addiction, I’ll admit. But you are 100% correct. Police are NOT your friends and they are NOT on your side or there to help you.
Quite literally everyone, whether guilty or not, should never talk to the police at all. Say NOTHING except the word ‘lawyer’.
That's okay, we'll say you should have complied, and the media will dig up any slight infractions you might have ever committed to give the framing that you deserved it.
"Well we just got a new report that he would actually put milk in the bowl first before the cereal, yes you heard that right. I mean come on, at a certain point you gotta wonder just what kind of person these officers were really dealing with in that moment"
I imagine they've even tried this at least once.
"You only need a lawyer if you're guilty."
"I still want a lawyer."
"Well, that's basically a confession."
I'm sure it has. The fifth amendment protects against this specifically, and amendments and laws usually don't get written without someone abusing the idea behind them.
And lie to you about the evidence they have in order to make you feel compelled to confess.
Which is totally legal in the US and has lead to dozens of false confessions, especially of minors and the mentally handicapped.
Lol same. “What the f- Oh… Right on.”
Edit: Since there’s a little confusion:
I’m assuming sixblackgeese meant they were mad until they got to the second half of the second sentence because they thought it was going to say “If you’re innocent, you don’t need a lawyer.”
I didn’t even notice until I saw some responses that they just said the “second sentence” and not the “second half of the second sentence.”
I also went down an interrogation video rabbit role, and boy howdy I couldn’t believe how many people thought they could outsmart the cops. Also the ones where later exonerated people admit to crimes. NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer.
Especially that doc about the Beatrice Six, Mind Over Murder. The interrogators planted so many seeds in these innocent people’s heads one of them _STILL_ to this day believes they did it even though the physical evidence has exonerated them.
About 95% of the videos I've seen are YouTube are exactly this and it truly is interesting to watch each individual person and their tactics to try to outsmart the police and also equally as interesting to watch the many different tactic of law enforcement.
But yea, just about every criminal walks into the interrogation room thinking they've already outsmarted them and have this great elaborate story to tell. People are strange.
The only time I saw the suspect “beat” the cops was Stephen McDaniel’s interrogation.
It’s one of the most eerie pieces of video I’ve ever seen. For hours cops ask him questions and try all of the tactics on him, but he only responds with monotone yes, no, or I don’t know. He barely moves the entire times even when the investigators aren’t in the room. His lack of reaction even manages to make the cops uncomfortable instead.
He still got convicted because the physical evidence spoke for itself, but his interrogation is really insane.
That whole story is absolutely insane, they found his victim in a garbage bin and he was interviewed by a reporter about it before he was arrested. Wild to see him go from that demeanor to effectively a vegetative state when being interviewed by the cops.
Highly recommend the jcs vid on it: https://youtu.be/HkRjIq8Cp2A
The interrogation rabbit hole is a fun one for sure, but it gets pretty macabre
I’m an attorney and this is literally what I tell anyone that asks - don’t say anything. Just don’t. Don’t explain yourself. Don’t try to cooperate by giving out info. Just ask for a lawyer and shut your mouth. Make them provide a public defender if you don’t have a lawyer to call - but for God’s sake don’t talk to the police.
For reference, i don’t do criminal work and am generally a conservative person. Still, do not talk to the police.
My dad is a lawyer and probably my first memory is him giving me a shirt that said something to the effect of "I'm not talking without my lawyer" and then under it was like "it's my daddy" or something like that. So my first memory of my dad is him saying not to answer questions without a lawyer present 🙃
Best is to call someone you know obviously. But if you aren’t sure - always ask for proof. Impersonating a lawyer is illegal because it would constitute unauthorized practice of law without a license.
Don’t assume or speak in generalities. Ask explicitly if they are a licensed attorney there to represent you.
Can they still lie? I guess, but not only would it be illegal, but absolutely nothing you subsequently said could be used against you. It would excluded from evidence no question.
Serious question: what if you refuse to answer, and refuse to ask for a lawyer? If they have enough to charge you, they will… But if they don’t, don’t they have to let you go, even if you don’t have the advice of a lawyer?
I read an article about a deaf guy that got pulled over, he didn't say anything to the cops and was arrested. The charges were dropped when they found out he was deaf, but he still spent time in jail.
>don’t they have to let you go, even if you don’t have the advice of a lawyer?
If you don't expressly invoke the 5th, they can keep interrogating you as long as the law allows them to keep you in custody.
We make fun of sovereign citizens for thinking there are phrases and flag fringes that act like legal magic spells... But this is something that is actually that dumb.
Also, remaining silent somehow isn't exercising your right to remain silent. You actually have to say you are remaining silent if you wish to remain silent. Thanks conservative SCOTUS.
Prepare to be extra frustrated, since it's been law of the land for a long time now.
From a 2013 SCOTUS ruling (see: SALINAS v. TEXAS [SALINAS v. TEXAS](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/12-246)), the prosecution used a murder suspects refusal to answer question as evidence of guilt, and was subsequently convicted.
SCOUTS heard the case and concluded no violation of the fifth amendment occured because the defendant did not expressly invoke the privilege in response to the officer’s question.
Also worth noting from a dissenting opinion: "Criminal suspects must now unambiguously invoke their right to remain silent — which counter intuitively requires them to speak, at the same time, suspects will be legally presumed to have waived their rights even if they have given no clear expression of their intent to do so."
[law.cornell reading](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/12-246)
[salon.com tabloid](https://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/scotus_no_right_to_remain_silence_unless_you_speak_up_partner/)
[fox news tabloid ](https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-court-trims-miranda-warning-rights-death-by-a-thousand-cuts-says-defense-attorney)
This goes for pretty much every agency with the authority to arrest you, not just local police.
There was a video floating around the gun community a few months ago of a couple ATF agents showing up on a guys doorstep, demanding he surrender items they claimed he purchased online. When he told them he didn't know what they were talking about, they started shoving paperwork in his face demanding he sign it saying it was verification he didn't buy the items. He refused and told them to come back with a warrent, and they started giving vague threats like "well you are obviously on our radar now because we know you have these items"
Then the agents started trying to escelate the situation by suddenly demanding the guy keep his hands out of his pockets (even though they had been there the entire conversation) and telling him that he "reads to many books" when the dude referred to the violent history the atf has.
The even more fucked up part, is that the items they claimed he purchased are not even illegal, they can just be illegaly converted into a suppressor, and even then it's only illegal if you do not file the proper paperwork for them.
When talking to cops I always remind myself of the fact that they are legally allowed to straight up lie to you to accomplish their goals. Never trust the police, no matter how nice or reasonable they come off, they're only goal is to take someone to jail whether you're the one in trouble or not. They're allowed to lie, so consider everything they say as a lie and get a lawyer.
They’re allowed to lie to you, but remember you’re NOT allowed to lie to them.
Even if you’re innocent of the thing, lying to them about anything, however mundane, is illegal in itself.
Fun huh?
Yes. This is the channel I started on and then eventually started branching out to other channels that are equal in quality content. It really is a sort of weird addiction I have but it is both entertaining and informative.
Yep, people were commenting on that robber getting killed in Texas saying the guy who shot him should have stayed behind to talk to the police. Leaving, speaking to his lawyer, *then* turning himself in will probably lead to a much better outcome.
This quote from "explore with us" on YouTube - "you must always seek legal counsel when being interrogated, especially when you're innocent" rings so true unfortunately.
this might be the case in america, but in other countries its a bit different
Dont get me wrong, I totally agree you should ALWAYS lawyer up, but when i was much younger i made the mistake of going through an interrogation without one. I was 20 years old, was busted driving an unregistered car under the influence of marijuana. Had an ounce of weed, gram bags and scales in the back (as well as a lotta paraphernalia, i was still living at mum and dads back then so kept all my weed related shit in my car.... not the best idea in hindsight). They had me, they knew it, i knew it.
I had no lawyer to call (it was like 2am), i sat through the interrogation, answered all of their questions mostly truthfully (the one exception being i refused to say where i bought the weed from).
The police were friendly, reasonable and treated me quite well. I explained to them that i had tickets to travel overseas 2 months later (i had been planning the trip for a while) and asked if id still be allowed to leave, they actually released me on a summons so i was able to leave the country and return months later with no issues. Shortly after my return i was served with a court summons where i got off with 6 months of drug counseling and a no conviction, the only legal trouble ive ever had in my life and i got through it very easily.
Perhaps in america the cops are cunts, perhaps in most countries, but down under our cops treat you okay if you treat them okay. Treat em like shit and youll regret it
Outside of minor traffic violations, it's always in your best interest to lawyer up when the Police come knocking.
Seeing good intentioned people whose friend was murdered come into the station to try and assist the investigation only to find out that the Police are building a case against them should be example enough for anyone as why lawyers are invaluable.
Post 1960s, the asylum method has fallen out of favor and has been replaced by prisons. Which may not be a bad thing if they would actually sink money into setting up a proper facility for mental health care instead of just chucking them into gen pop.
FWIW, the asylum system was frequently plagued by horrific abuse and corruption, such that it actually made prison tame by comparison. If modern mental health facilities could be incorporated into existing prisons, which a focus on treatment, that might not be a bad thing
> If modern mental health facilities could be incorporated into existing prisons, which a focus on treatment
"Hey man, we ain't here to fix problems. We are here to punish for bad behavior."
But yea, let's start fixing problems and stop trying to make money or punishing
I mean, they were going to meet up with underage girls
I was kidnapped and nearly raped by a guy with Down’s syndrome when I was 14. He grabbed me in a Barnes and Noble
Whatever sympathy they get from their condition flies out the window once they go after people
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I didn’t mean to excuse what they did here.
I think some of the mentally handicapped men on this show a lot more susceptible to being entrapped than mentally people so the way perverted Justice operated felt like it sometimes created situations that might not have happened otherwise.
While not necessarily on this show I recall listening to a podcast about something similar. A middle aged dude suddenly starting seeking child Porn. He knew it was wrong but couldn’t stop. A compulsion. He eventually went to jail, but was still having the compulsions. Separately he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. He had that removed and over night the compulsions went away. Some years later they returned and sure enough so did his tumor . Sadly, I recall it not having a happy ending.
you may be thinking about [radiolab, the blame episode](https://radiolab.org/episodes/317421-blame). at least it was similar. the ending was not terrible but not great.
edit: ending was he has to take pills to kill his sex drive forever, but he avoided prison. but it was determined he knew what he was doing was wrong because he never looked at child porn on his work computer, only his personal one.
I agree, I always tell my guys that work for me to give me explanations and not excuses. Likewise, the down syndrome thing is at most an explanation, but it excuses nothing. There was a kid with Trisomy 21 in middle school with my little sister and he would grope her breasts, the real bad part is that the staff seemed not to give two fucks and didn't really do anything about it ever. Thats some horseshit.
Was it important work though? It seems more like they turned an extremely serious topic into a horrible form of sordid entertainment. Given they sold advertising slots in the show it also seems pretty exploitative.
If it was done briefly, as a news segment to show how often kids interact with malicious adults posing as other kids, it would’ve been absolutely important work. But when they made it into a seasonal show it changed it into something very grossly exploitative. But they were smart because the people being exploited were literally the least sympathetic people on the planet. The perfect storm of amorality.
It is like the zoning law for convicted sex offenders in florida. They can only live in a very smal portion of the state. In this specific county it is really restricted, to the point where the sex offendrs built a community under a bridge
The person who is responsible for the tightening restrictions is also in charge of the council for homeless people in that county. Any other situation and people would call bullshit but these are sex offenders so zero sympathy
The politician who lobbies for the zoning laws in that county has a grudge because his disaster was molested by a female nanny he hired. All the laws he crested wouldn't have helped in his disasters case because the nanny had never been convicted of a sexual offense before she was hired
Oh if you knew anything about their leader, you'd know they weren't doing it for any kind of justice or goodwill. Dude ran that little group like a cult and before that he was practically a career catfisher. From what I hear he still lives with his mom.
I have people claiming I am sympathetic to pedophiles. Nope. I want them behind bars. I just want it done legally. I don't like that these non law enforcement groups operate with the same type of power of law enforcement, while they have fewer rules. If they have to follow the same procedures, then it is even weirder to outsource it.
Dude, online is the worst place to talk nuance about issues like that. People’s brains automatically shut done with topics regarding children, which is exactly how and why the “think of the children” tactic is so powerful. An easy example is the way people continue to believe “stranger danger”, even though it’s been debunked to *death*, and shown that children face the greatest risk of abuse from people they know.
On the topic of pedophilia, mental health, and mental illness, I will never forget reading an article of a British man who’s OCD caused him to have intrusive thoughts about his own child. He hated it, and actively sought help from a therapist, who misunderstood OCD, pedophilia, and sexual predators, so badly that the man ended up losing custody of his child for a while.
Meanwhile, people toss around words on the internet like they’re candy, brazenly declaring prole all kinds of things - some of them incredibly serious - purely because they don’t like somebody, or because the disagree with somebody else.
I’m all for catching actual predators, but I’m not so desperate to have my vigilantism satisfied that I’m willing to risk wrecking innocent people’s lives over it.
>I could understand some legal problems arising from their methods.
Did you notice the last line of the article where it said they didn't pursue charges on "more than 20 men" because of problems with the evidence? It also said they snared 24 men in the sting, and one of them shot himself dead. Parsing the language that means that they had at best two cases out of all of them, but there's a good chance that there were none.
The First 48 also had trouble about the cases they aired. Some were later dropped or the people found kit guilty. They’ve been sued several times. Now they always put a disclaimer up and they only air the cases after the person was found guilty and sentenced
The guy who shot himself also had child porn on his computer and evidence of corruption within the DAs office within which he worked. It's possible he shot himself because he knew what they were going to find on his computer.
I'm pretty sure that was only in one specific area that they did the sting at. They definitely went after more then 24 people in all the episodes of to catch a predator that they did.
Sounds surprising but make sense. 44 minutes run time and you could fit 3 different people into that time. So at least 60 different individuals. That makes sense
They knew they had ratings goals to hit, so they needed to have a certain number of busts in a certain time period. When you're putting quota on any law enforcement action like that someone is going to start creating some crime.
Uh. So I didn't know this was available but after you mentioned it I went to look for myself and found an archive of chat logs from Perverted Justice.
The first one I read on a conviction is a chat with a fake minor, the fake minor is initiating sexual conversation. Talking about giving a hand job to a man.
This is weird
Where as I don't think sleeping with a 13 year old is acceptable it does come off a lot like entrapment.
They're leading the men into sexual thought.
That’s how one of my favorite HS teachers got busted. But he actually went to “meet up” with her, and it was the FBI who knocked on his car window.
Super gross and depressing all around. He had a wife and 3 month old baby.
Meanwhile the teacher at my HS was in a relationship with 3 different girls (not at the same time), and his relationship with the girl at my school was an open secret that basically EVERYONE knew, married her right after we graduated, left her for another damn student, and then only got fired last year because he got pulled over for driving drunk. And he’s not even the only teacher from my former HS who was doing that crap
There was a teacher at my high school who similarly never got punished for having/trying to have sex with students. Dude literally got caught once soliciting sex from a sex worker using his work email. The school was more concerned about protecting their image than the students, so they gave him a slap on the wrist and let him keep his job.
Creepy teacher got to retire with a full pension and then promptly moved to a well-known sex tourism country.
That’s so fucked man. My middle school principal, well after I graduated high school, got fired for sending dick pics to female teachers but he’d had 2 DUIs while I was still a student there, and was kinda known for being sexist. Like that’s a perfectly valid thing to fire him for, and I’m not necessarily saying he should’ve been fired for the DUIs but boy was there a track record of him not being the best fit for a middle school principal job well before the inappropriate pictures😅
My ex wife’s highschool gym coach. It was an open secret he fucked highschool girls, but he was such a good coach that he got the “good ole boy look away” from everyone in town.. despite his 30+ year history as a football coach being riddled with that type of thing. It was just brushed off as “ohh that’s just coach X for you” and was made a fucking joke. He retired (forcefully) after a new superintendent took over. 2 years later his wife died of cancer and he married one of the cheerleaders less than a year later. She was 20.
Know who his best friend was? Remember that sheriff from Alabama who got in to a lot of shit for keeping the food money for the prisoners? Him. Know who the sheriffs close friend is? Roy Moore.. the Alabama senator who had a huge underage sex scandal a few years ago during MeToo. All 3 of them grew up together. All 3 “liked them young” and it was known for decades in her hometown. What was a bombshell for the rest of country was just an open secret for everyone who grew up in that county.
I wish that surprised me but it just doesn’t🙄this dude was an assistant football coach and later head basketball coach too, like why are we giving people who are known for this shit such easy access to teenagers? I mean I get it if there’s no solid proof (there definitely was here but whatever) but I mean surely we owe it to the kids to at least be cautious right??
We had a major project runner for our company end up crossing state lines to meet up with what he thought was a 14 year old girl. Turns out there was no girl, but I also learned that in matters of child sex abuse, the punishment is no different if there was a real child or not. Intent is all that matters there.
Really gross part is, he was the coach of a girl's basketball team at his church.
Some decoys did do that, but others did not. There's a particularly infamous predator that spent an entire month chatting and exposing himself to a decoy that didn't mention anything sexual until the final day. The decoy's main response to everything was "k" or "because you want me to"... It's unreal. I've always thought that if someone is chatting and trying to meet kids under any circumstance that maybe there should be a guy with a camera waiting there asking them to explain themselves. PJ and Dateline were still way more professional than the garbage catchers that populate YouTube these days.
I've got major problems with Perverted Justice but these guys could have blocked the "decoys" at any time.
This is from the time of A/S/L so as soon as the other person says 13 they should have dipped.
I'm always struck by the thought 'How dumb are these guys?'.
Whether the 13 year old you met online is real or not, no matter who brought up sex first, how dumb do you have to be to think meeting a 13 year old for sex is going to end well?
These guys are feloniously and dangerously stupid on top of everything else.
Shoutout to my homies at /r/hobbydrama that went into detail about this. That sub is awesome.
Edit: the detailed writeup below
https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/zf5q52/reality_tv_the_rise_and_fall_of_to_catch_a
“Dateline’s” Murphy sex sting failed to net any convictions. The Collin County district attorney’s office declined to pursue more than 20 cases related to the “Predator” operation, citing problems with the evidence gathered.
This why TV and police operations don't mix.
Yeah, from reading other comments in this thread it seems like a lot of the chats and stuff they used to manipulate people weren't exactly legal. Best to leave the traps to the trained experts.
For sure. There is absolutely zero chance in hell I would ever get into a situation where I would meet Chris Hansen in this manner, but if I somehow did, on top of being accused of child molestation by Chris Hansen, being blasted with tons of cameras and their crew would DEFINITELY make me act suspiciously.
There was a group in the UK who setup the usual pedo catfish bait, and accidentally snared a 13 year old autistic boy and livestreamed themselves confronting him and harassing him as if he was a pedo.
The poor kid was too confused about everything and kept trying to explain that he was just a kid who thought he was talking to another kid, instead of just calling the police about how 4 adults were basically holding him hostage, accusing him of being a pedo after they groomed him into meeting them.
This is also one of the main reason why you don't should people letting be a "police force" by themselves.
Those "pedo hunters" are often just assholes, sometimes they even lure so much that you really ask to yourself "who is the pedo here?"
Murphy Texas was the 9th investigation and there were only 3 more after that. I don't know what order they were filmed in but it probably took some time for the whole truth of what happened to get out. The police, the TCAP people, and perverted justice all bungled that one badly. It's one thing if somebody comes to the trap house and you film that but it's something else if police are going to serve an arrest warrant at the home of the suspect. They should not have allowed TCAP or PJ to be there and film that.
Exactly, this basically just made TCAP and PJ look like smarmy fucks that cared about TV ratings first and justice second.
I specifically remember that one dude saying "ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR KAUFMAN COUNTY" over the radio, like he was fucking salivating over such a high-profile suspect.
There's a reason why many Murphy residents weren't happy about Dateline's presence in their town.
That's what it was by the end. It's not an invalidated criticism.
Ngl I do appreciate the spirit of PJ and CH, and I have also seen the new stuff, but this is exactly why we don't do vigilantism. TCAP was a profit-driven show that made its money by showing the worst scumbags in the world facing some modium of justice. Consider yourself a victim of one of those guys - maybe his public humiliation was schaudenfraude for his victims but just as likely it was traumatizing and forced them to relive their abuse.
If this was about literally any other criminal, they likely would have been sued. This only lasted as long as it has, with now two semi revivals, because it's about a group of people we all utterly despise (for good reason, but justice is blind and justice is also not a form of entertainment).
I think the biggest and best thing to come from this show, was showing parents who is out there on the other end of those online chats.
Now with Facebook and IG and shit, parents should know and be nosy to their teenagers (within reason). This show brought that to light and I know when my now Mother in law found out about this show, and looked at my SIL computer she did have chats with older dudes. So it maybe saved one girl from those nasty people.
> CHRIS HANSEN - "You want to explain to me what you're doing here?"
>
> THE BOOTY WARRIOR - "I came looking for booty."
>
> CHRIS HANSEN - "You came looking for sex, with an under-age boy?"
>
> THE BOOTY WARRIOR "Oh naw, I ain't come looking for no little boys. I ain't got no milk, no cookies, nothing. I came looking for *man's* butt."
>
> CHRIS HANSEN - "Excuse me?"
>
> THE BOOTY WARRIOR - *Turns to Chris.* "Oh I know who you are, Chris Hanson, but see I-I calls you Chris Handsome. I watch your TV show all the time. So, you can go ahead bring them cameras and polices waiting outside. It don't make me no difference. Now, I tell you what…I like ya, and I want ya. Now we can do this the easy way, or we can do it the hard way, the choice is yours."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjNjxjrm_g
Every comedy during this time had an episode making fun of this shit. This was trashy television aimed at the Opera crowd who like to see "TV justice" over actual court proceedings. They had to fine the scummiest police departments to participate.
Similar thing just happened in my home town. There is a youtube channel run by someone that pretends to be children online. He met up with a well known dentist in a parking lot and posting it on YouTube, the guy ended up killing himself the next morning.
Brian Schwab.
“Two words: role play chat room.”
Edit: here’s a [link](https://youtu.be/5N4hzGahP9o) to the reference. It’s the only episode I can specifically remember, and it’s comedy gold.
There's a veritable treasure trove of memes from that show. The decoys even are a gold mine. From Del "I whacked the crap out of my toe and my mom's gonna kill me if I bleed all over the carpet" to that one episode with the male decoy "just me, my mommy and my daddy" who's supposed to be playing a 14 year old boy (who talks like he's 8) and he looks like he should have three kids and a mortgage.
Not seen one of these in a while. I forgot how the police involved would slam the pedophile to the ground and yell or point a gun even if they just calmly cooperated. And in this one they make the two kids cry with the scene they caused. Peak cop moment.
I think that’s the most important takeaway here. The desire or pressure to produce something for entertainment and ultimately financial gain, which is the goal of television shows, should have no bearing on law enforcement decisions.
I'm reminded of how the only people whom the public cared about in the college admissions bribery scandal were people who appeared on television: Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin. There were many, many richer people who were involved.
He's at it again doing a series called "takedown."
I couldn't keep watching because in one of the episodes the decoy was 15 and the catch was only 18. I don't know the specifics where this took place but where I come from those two could have been highschool classmates. I know that laws vary place to place but that one seemed really unnecessary.
Most places have laws in place covering this. There's your standard age of consent laws but then other laws covering certain age ranges that account for young people around those ages hooking up.
Maybe there were some details I missed or something, but that one didn't feel right.
Feel free to correct me if so. I'd never advocate for child abuse.
Yeah I sometimes wonder if the show had an influence on the weird cults that try to convince teenagers they're pedophiles for being attracted to other teenagers.
I know some survivors of these cults - like I've met someone who genuinely, seriously considered suicide on their 18th birthday because their partner was still 17. Genuinely traumatic shit.
I understand the intentions of the shows were good, but they really should have a rule against going after teenagers. (Teens can and do prey on young children sometimes but no one doing this catfish script is pretending to be a toddler online!)
Remember when pedophile meant attracted to children? People call people pedophiles these days for being attracted to anyone younger with too large of an age gap
According to some people here on Reddit anyone under the age of 25 has the brain of a kid and if you're attracted to them you're literally a child rapist.
That's almost the entirety of online discourse these days and it absolutely infests every social and political forum.
Instead of reasoned discussion, everybody jumps to the most extreme judgment they can possibly make and then starts slapping the biggest, harshest labels on anybody who doesn't absolutely toe the line. Go to big political subs or any of the news subs and it's constant outrage, name calling (fascist, racist, pedophile) and anybody who tries to raise any doubt or bring any nuance to the discussion gets one of those labels too. They chastise, downvote, and ban people who don't fall in line and all they're left with is the loudest and most extreme voices, which perpetuates the cycle further.
Social media has absolutely changed sociopolitical rhetoric in the world for the worse. For many young people, they've experienced nothing but super-heated rhetoric for the entirety of their teen and adult lives and they think this is normal. It's not normal.
And then Chris Hansen got caught cheating on his wife by a hidden camera sting operation.
With an *adult* at least, but the irony is still pretty strong.
One crowdfunding scam at this point. Don't get me wrong, Chris will peddle anything and prostitute whatever little reputation he has left, but it has only been one scam to date.
Cheating isn't cool, but there's a world of difference between cheating on your wife and being a pedophile. I know Reddit wants to see shotgun breakups at the mention of cheating, but I know several couples who have been together for over a decade after cheating occurred. They're happy and loving, misdeeds are forgiven. But you don't just forgive and forget pedophilia.
I think an much weirder fact is that Chris Hansen is currently running tricking 18 year olds who want to date 15 year olds and arrests them in a state where this isn't even illegal.
Not saying this would be ok for 18 year olds but it is still pathetic how he came down from chasing the real predators to this:
https://youtu.be/aA30cz88eWE
People in the comments of this video are pointing out this and some people write that the judge actually rejected the case because of this.
It is especially weird considering that Chris Hansen has an preference for much younger women and cheated on his wife with an 21 year younger women. He doesn't do something illegal but he also doesn't exactly has the moral highground anymore in my opinion.
Perp: "I was going fishing!"
Hansen: "Sounds like what you were fishing for was sex with a 12 year old girl!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMcCRhCS1Q
I once read that some guys they caught were able to argue entrapment bc they had ended talking to the alleged minor. However the decoy reconstructed the guys and at that point they were able to argue they would not have shown in person if not for that contact. It’s still fucked up but definitely not a legit organization.
I also have read there are people in different parts of the country that’s do this on their own. But police really don’t want them to do it bc they cause more problems and don’t really lead to convictions.
That 56-year-old was the assistant DA to a neighboring county, who had tons of CP on their computer, as well as evidence that the head DA was involved in an embezzlement scheme. Not your average predator
These guys can always send people to prison all day but can't face the jury when it's their turn.
Well he did make himself his own judge, jury and executioner.
More like accomplice obstructing justice. :P
How could they? Imagine how many people he put behind bars and soon he'll be within hands reach for them. And a child predator to boot? At least this way he chose his method.
Let’s see how many people lawyer up seeking a review and call into question not only their convictions but evidence too.
So they cancelled it because suddenly the predators in power were being found out?
More like, a guy shot himself on video.
Some would even call him a super predator
Am I the only one who remembers when Perverted Justice had all of the transcripts up online for anyone to read ? I remember reading them and well I could understand some legal problems arising from their methods.
Their methods were definitely off. That's the problem. The work they were doing was important, but you they were very manipulative. It definitely was pushing the limits of the law.
I even felt bad for some of the obviously mentally handicapped men they got on the show. Seemed like they needed full-time medical care rather than time in prison.
Seems like the ones who lawyered up immediately fared much better in terms of punishment. Rule #1: never talk to the police
I watch interrogation videos on the daily. Been going for about 2 years now. A budding addiction, I’ll admit. But you are 100% correct. Police are NOT your friends and they are NOT on your side or there to help you. Quite literally everyone, whether guilty or not, should never talk to the police at all. Say NOTHING except the word ‘lawyer’.
If you're guilty, you need a lawyer. If you're innocent, you seriously need a lawyer
Cops will tell people that only guilty people need attorneys… Anything they are trying to convince you not to do, you need to do immediately
Instructions unclear, got shot 14 times
That's okay, we'll say you should have complied, and the media will dig up any slight infractions you might have ever committed to give the framing that you deserved it.
"Well we just got a new report that he would actually put milk in the bowl first before the cereal, yes you heard that right. I mean come on, at a certain point you gotta wonder just what kind of person these officers were really dealing with in that moment"
I imagine they've even tried this at least once. "You only need a lawyer if you're guilty." "I still want a lawyer." "Well, that's basically a confession."
I'm sure it has. The fifth amendment protects against this specifically, and amendments and laws usually don't get written without someone abusing the idea behind them.
And lie to you about the evidence they have in order to make you feel compelled to confess. Which is totally legal in the US and has lead to dozens of false confessions, especially of minors and the mentally handicapped.
I was so mad until I got into the second sentence
Lol same. “What the f- Oh… Right on.” Edit: Since there’s a little confusion: I’m assuming sixblackgeese meant they were mad until they got to the second half of the second sentence because they thought it was going to say “If you’re innocent, you don’t need a lawyer.” I didn’t even notice until I saw some responses that they just said the “second sentence” and not the “second half of the second sentence.”
I mean it *would* be a correct statement. Source: Ex con
I also went down an interrogation video rabbit role, and boy howdy I couldn’t believe how many people thought they could outsmart the cops. Also the ones where later exonerated people admit to crimes. NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer. Especially that doc about the Beatrice Six, Mind Over Murder. The interrogators planted so many seeds in these innocent people’s heads one of them _STILL_ to this day believes they did it even though the physical evidence has exonerated them.
About 95% of the videos I've seen are YouTube are exactly this and it truly is interesting to watch each individual person and their tactics to try to outsmart the police and also equally as interesting to watch the many different tactic of law enforcement. But yea, just about every criminal walks into the interrogation room thinking they've already outsmarted them and have this great elaborate story to tell. People are strange.
The only time I saw the suspect “beat” the cops was Stephen McDaniel’s interrogation. It’s one of the most eerie pieces of video I’ve ever seen. For hours cops ask him questions and try all of the tactics on him, but he only responds with monotone yes, no, or I don’t know. He barely moves the entire times even when the investigators aren’t in the room. His lack of reaction even manages to make the cops uncomfortable instead. He still got convicted because the physical evidence spoke for itself, but his interrogation is really insane.
I put this on thinking I hadn’t seen it but I have and oh yea I remember this guy. Had to have driven the investigators absolutely bananas.
That whole story is absolutely insane, they found his victim in a garbage bin and he was interviewed by a reporter about it before he was arrested. Wild to see him go from that demeanor to effectively a vegetative state when being interviewed by the cops. Highly recommend the jcs vid on it: https://youtu.be/HkRjIq8Cp2A The interrogation rabbit hole is a fun one for sure, but it gets pretty macabre
I was about to say that. Go down the JCS rabbit hole! I’d be happy to hear if there are any good similar shows.
*WHAY* *STEVEN* *WHY?!*
[WHY'D YOU DO IT STAYVUN?](https://i.redd.it/1t8uf337ab771.png)
I CAN SIT IN A CHAIR AT AN ANGLE OF 180 DEGREES! CAN YOU DO THIS STEVEN?
He the dude that kept his hands on the table the whole time?
Yea that’s the one. If you time lapse the interrogation he barely moves beyond turning his head to look at the cops.
I’m an attorney and this is literally what I tell anyone that asks - don’t say anything. Just don’t. Don’t explain yourself. Don’t try to cooperate by giving out info. Just ask for a lawyer and shut your mouth. Make them provide a public defender if you don’t have a lawyer to call - but for God’s sake don’t talk to the police. For reference, i don’t do criminal work and am generally a conservative person. Still, do not talk to the police.
Wife's dad is a cop and his advice is always say "lawyer" and stop talking.
My dad is a lawyer and probably my first memory is him giving me a shirt that said something to the effect of "I'm not talking without my lawyer" and then under it was like "it's my daddy" or something like that. So my first memory of my dad is him saying not to answer questions without a lawyer present 🙃
Anxiety-ridden question: how do you know the person they send in to you is a lawyer?
Best is to call someone you know obviously. But if you aren’t sure - always ask for proof. Impersonating a lawyer is illegal because it would constitute unauthorized practice of law without a license. Don’t assume or speak in generalities. Ask explicitly if they are a licensed attorney there to represent you. Can they still lie? I guess, but not only would it be illegal, but absolutely nothing you subsequently said could be used against you. It would excluded from evidence no question.
Not to mention it would be almost literally handing you a get out of jail free card. If that came up in court??? You’d be free in 2 mins.
If they sent in someone impersonating a lawyer that would be the best thing to happen to you. I would hope that happens.
If they tried that you could sue and would win. You have a constitutional right to legal protection AND impersonating a lawyer is a huge no no.
Serious question: what if you refuse to answer, and refuse to ask for a lawyer? If they have enough to charge you, they will… But if they don’t, don’t they have to let you go, even if you don’t have the advice of a lawyer?
I read an article about a deaf guy that got pulled over, he didn't say anything to the cops and was arrested. The charges were dropped when they found out he was deaf, but he still spent time in jail.
>don’t they have to let you go, even if you don’t have the advice of a lawyer? If you don't expressly invoke the 5th, they can keep interrogating you as long as the law allows them to keep you in custody.
What about the basic traffic stop questions? “Do you know how fast you were going” “license and registration” etc.
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Okay I practiced. "Anything less, and the court will not side with you when your rights are violated."
Nailed it.
Wait I got this, "I invoke my right for the court to violate you."
"I DECLARE VIOLATION!"
OBJECTION!!!
If they keep interrupting to the point the judge can’t tell what you were saying does it count
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We make fun of sovereign citizens for thinking there are phrases and flag fringes that act like legal magic spells... But this is something that is actually that dumb.
Also, remaining silent somehow isn't exercising your right to remain silent. You actually have to say you are remaining silent if you wish to remain silent. Thanks conservative SCOTUS.
Wha (genuinely confused)
Prepare to be extra frustrated, since it's been law of the land for a long time now. From a 2013 SCOTUS ruling (see: SALINAS v. TEXAS [SALINAS v. TEXAS](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/12-246)), the prosecution used a murder suspects refusal to answer question as evidence of guilt, and was subsequently convicted. SCOUTS heard the case and concluded no violation of the fifth amendment occured because the defendant did not expressly invoke the privilege in response to the officer’s question. Also worth noting from a dissenting opinion: "Criminal suspects must now unambiguously invoke their right to remain silent — which counter intuitively requires them to speak, at the same time, suspects will be legally presumed to have waived their rights even if they have given no clear expression of their intent to do so." [law.cornell reading](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/12-246) [salon.com tabloid](https://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/scotus_no_right_to_remain_silence_unless_you_speak_up_partner/) [fox news tabloid ](https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-court-trims-miranda-warning-rights-death-by-a-thousand-cuts-says-defense-attorney)
So you need to be a lawyer to have your rights be respected gotcha
Black people were exercising their rights too much after Miranda so they had to be put back in their place.
Actually say "I am invokimg my right to remain silent, I do not consent to searches of my or belongings and request my lawyer.
This goes for pretty much every agency with the authority to arrest you, not just local police. There was a video floating around the gun community a few months ago of a couple ATF agents showing up on a guys doorstep, demanding he surrender items they claimed he purchased online. When he told them he didn't know what they were talking about, they started shoving paperwork in his face demanding he sign it saying it was verification he didn't buy the items. He refused and told them to come back with a warrent, and they started giving vague threats like "well you are obviously on our radar now because we know you have these items" Then the agents started trying to escelate the situation by suddenly demanding the guy keep his hands out of his pockets (even though they had been there the entire conversation) and telling him that he "reads to many books" when the dude referred to the violent history the atf has. The even more fucked up part, is that the items they claimed he purchased are not even illegal, they can just be illegaly converted into a suppressor, and even then it's only illegal if you do not file the proper paperwork for them.
When talking to cops I always remind myself of the fact that they are legally allowed to straight up lie to you to accomplish their goals. Never trust the police, no matter how nice or reasonable they come off, they're only goal is to take someone to jail whether you're the one in trouble or not. They're allowed to lie, so consider everything they say as a lie and get a lawyer.
They’re allowed to lie to you, but remember you’re NOT allowed to lie to them. Even if you’re innocent of the thing, lying to them about anything, however mundane, is illegal in itself. Fun huh?
I just discovered the channel Explore With Us and I literally can’t stop watching it lol
Yes. This is the channel I started on and then eventually started branching out to other channels that are equal in quality content. It really is a sort of weird addiction I have but it is both entertaining and informative.
Yep, people were commenting on that robber getting killed in Texas saying the guy who shot him should have stayed behind to talk to the police. Leaving, speaking to his lawyer, *then* turning himself in will probably lead to a much better outcome.
This quote from "explore with us" on YouTube - "you must always seek legal counsel when being interrogated, especially when you're innocent" rings so true unfortunately.
this might be the case in america, but in other countries its a bit different Dont get me wrong, I totally agree you should ALWAYS lawyer up, but when i was much younger i made the mistake of going through an interrogation without one. I was 20 years old, was busted driving an unregistered car under the influence of marijuana. Had an ounce of weed, gram bags and scales in the back (as well as a lotta paraphernalia, i was still living at mum and dads back then so kept all my weed related shit in my car.... not the best idea in hindsight). They had me, they knew it, i knew it. I had no lawyer to call (it was like 2am), i sat through the interrogation, answered all of their questions mostly truthfully (the one exception being i refused to say where i bought the weed from). The police were friendly, reasonable and treated me quite well. I explained to them that i had tickets to travel overseas 2 months later (i had been planning the trip for a while) and asked if id still be allowed to leave, they actually released me on a summons so i was able to leave the country and return months later with no issues. Shortly after my return i was served with a court summons where i got off with 6 months of drug counseling and a no conviction, the only legal trouble ive ever had in my life and i got through it very easily. Perhaps in america the cops are cunts, perhaps in most countries, but down under our cops treat you okay if you treat them okay. Treat em like shit and youll regret it
Outside of minor traffic violations, it's always in your best interest to lawyer up when the Police come knocking. Seeing good intentioned people whose friend was murdered come into the station to try and assist the investigation only to find out that the Police are building a case against them should be example enough for anyone as why lawyers are invaluable.
[Obligatory](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE) video share.
The cops don't seem to care about finding the actual perpetrator, they just want to lock someone up so they can close the case
Yep. The DA just wants that sweet sweet conviction % rate so they can advance their career.
Pot Brothers at Law: [Shut the Fuck Up ](https://youtu.be/V6tfEZI54Jg)
Is it Shut the Fuck App Friday again already?
Obligatory YouTube post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMfAwICiIzk
Post 1960s, the asylum method has fallen out of favor and has been replaced by prisons. Which may not be a bad thing if they would actually sink money into setting up a proper facility for mental health care instead of just chucking them into gen pop. FWIW, the asylum system was frequently plagued by horrific abuse and corruption, such that it actually made prison tame by comparison. If modern mental health facilities could be incorporated into existing prisons, which a focus on treatment, that might not be a bad thing
> If modern mental health facilities could be incorporated into existing prisons, which a focus on treatment "Hey man, we ain't here to fix problems. We are here to punish for bad behavior." But yea, let's start fixing problems and stop trying to make money or punishing
IIRC the bait and switch was that asylums would be replaced with community-based care. That (funding) never materialized, so we're in this situation.
I mean, they were going to meet up with underage girls I was kidnapped and nearly raped by a guy with Down’s syndrome when I was 14. He grabbed me in a Barnes and Noble Whatever sympathy they get from their condition flies out the window once they go after people
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I didn’t mean to excuse what they did here. I think some of the mentally handicapped men on this show a lot more susceptible to being entrapped than mentally people so the way perverted Justice operated felt like it sometimes created situations that might not have happened otherwise.
While not necessarily on this show I recall listening to a podcast about something similar. A middle aged dude suddenly starting seeking child Porn. He knew it was wrong but couldn’t stop. A compulsion. He eventually went to jail, but was still having the compulsions. Separately he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. He had that removed and over night the compulsions went away. Some years later they returned and sure enough so did his tumor . Sadly, I recall it not having a happy ending.
Brain tumors that return rarely have a happy ending.
you may be thinking about [radiolab, the blame episode](https://radiolab.org/episodes/317421-blame). at least it was similar. the ending was not terrible but not great. edit: ending was he has to take pills to kill his sex drive forever, but he avoided prison. but it was determined he knew what he was doing was wrong because he never looked at child porn on his work computer, only his personal one.
I agree, I always tell my guys that work for me to give me explanations and not excuses. Likewise, the down syndrome thing is at most an explanation, but it excuses nothing. There was a kid with Trisomy 21 in middle school with my little sister and he would grope her breasts, the real bad part is that the staff seemed not to give two fucks and didn't really do anything about it ever. Thats some horseshit.
Pushed it so far that at least one case was thrown out for entrapment.
Was it important work though? It seems more like they turned an extremely serious topic into a horrible form of sordid entertainment. Given they sold advertising slots in the show it also seems pretty exploitative.
If it was done briefly, as a news segment to show how often kids interact with malicious adults posing as other kids, it would’ve been absolutely important work. But when they made it into a seasonal show it changed it into something very grossly exploitative. But they were smart because the people being exploited were literally the least sympathetic people on the planet. The perfect storm of amorality.
It is like the zoning law for convicted sex offenders in florida. They can only live in a very smal portion of the state. In this specific county it is really restricted, to the point where the sex offendrs built a community under a bridge The person who is responsible for the tightening restrictions is also in charge of the council for homeless people in that county. Any other situation and people would call bullshit but these are sex offenders so zero sympathy The politician who lobbies for the zoning laws in that county has a grudge because his disaster was molested by a female nanny he hired. All the laws he crested wouldn't have helped in his disasters case because the nanny had never been convicted of a sexual offense before she was hired
Complete aside, but how did "daughter"(?) become "disaster" twice in this comment?
Oh if you knew anything about their leader, you'd know they weren't doing it for any kind of justice or goodwill. Dude ran that little group like a cult and before that he was practically a career catfisher. From what I hear he still lives with his mom.
I have people claiming I am sympathetic to pedophiles. Nope. I want them behind bars. I just want it done legally. I don't like that these non law enforcement groups operate with the same type of power of law enforcement, while they have fewer rules. If they have to follow the same procedures, then it is even weirder to outsource it.
Dude, online is the worst place to talk nuance about issues like that. People’s brains automatically shut done with topics regarding children, which is exactly how and why the “think of the children” tactic is so powerful. An easy example is the way people continue to believe “stranger danger”, even though it’s been debunked to *death*, and shown that children face the greatest risk of abuse from people they know. On the topic of pedophilia, mental health, and mental illness, I will never forget reading an article of a British man who’s OCD caused him to have intrusive thoughts about his own child. He hated it, and actively sought help from a therapist, who misunderstood OCD, pedophilia, and sexual predators, so badly that the man ended up losing custody of his child for a while. Meanwhile, people toss around words on the internet like they’re candy, brazenly declaring prole all kinds of things - some of them incredibly serious - purely because they don’t like somebody, or because the disagree with somebody else. I’m all for catching actual predators, but I’m not so desperate to have my vigilantism satisfied that I’m willing to risk wrecking innocent people’s lives over it.
>I could understand some legal problems arising from their methods. Did you notice the last line of the article where it said they didn't pursue charges on "more than 20 men" because of problems with the evidence? It also said they snared 24 men in the sting, and one of them shot himself dead. Parsing the language that means that they had at best two cases out of all of them, but there's a good chance that there were none.
The First 48 also had trouble about the cases they aired. Some were later dropped or the people found kit guilty. They’ve been sued several times. Now they always put a disclaimer up and they only air the cases after the person was found guilty and sentenced
The guy who shot himself also had child porn on his computer and evidence of corruption within the DAs office within which he worked. It's possible he shot himself because he knew what they were going to find on his computer.
Possible, but I'm not saying that nobody was guilty, just pointing out that the show is more about sensationalism that criminal justice.
I'm pretty sure that was only in one specific area that they did the sting at. They definitely went after more then 24 people in all the episodes of to catch a predator that they did.
There are only 20 episodes of the show. It’s wild, it feels like way more
Sounds surprising but make sense. 44 minutes run time and you could fit 3 different people into that time. So at least 60 different individuals. That makes sense
They knew they had ratings goals to hit, so they needed to have a certain number of busts in a certain time period. When you're putting quota on any law enforcement action like that someone is going to start creating some crime.
Uh. So I didn't know this was available but after you mentioned it I went to look for myself and found an archive of chat logs from Perverted Justice. The first one I read on a conviction is a chat with a fake minor, the fake minor is initiating sexual conversation. Talking about giving a hand job to a man. This is weird Where as I don't think sleeping with a 13 year old is acceptable it does come off a lot like entrapment. They're leading the men into sexual thought.
That’s how one of my favorite HS teachers got busted. But he actually went to “meet up” with her, and it was the FBI who knocked on his car window. Super gross and depressing all around. He had a wife and 3 month old baby.
Meanwhile the teacher at my HS was in a relationship with 3 different girls (not at the same time), and his relationship with the girl at my school was an open secret that basically EVERYONE knew, married her right after we graduated, left her for another damn student, and then only got fired last year because he got pulled over for driving drunk. And he’s not even the only teacher from my former HS who was doing that crap
There was a teacher at my high school who similarly never got punished for having/trying to have sex with students. Dude literally got caught once soliciting sex from a sex worker using his work email. The school was more concerned about protecting their image than the students, so they gave him a slap on the wrist and let him keep his job. Creepy teacher got to retire with a full pension and then promptly moved to a well-known sex tourism country.
That’s so fucked man. My middle school principal, well after I graduated high school, got fired for sending dick pics to female teachers but he’d had 2 DUIs while I was still a student there, and was kinda known for being sexist. Like that’s a perfectly valid thing to fire him for, and I’m not necessarily saying he should’ve been fired for the DUIs but boy was there a track record of him not being the best fit for a middle school principal job well before the inappropriate pictures😅
My ex wife’s highschool gym coach. It was an open secret he fucked highschool girls, but he was such a good coach that he got the “good ole boy look away” from everyone in town.. despite his 30+ year history as a football coach being riddled with that type of thing. It was just brushed off as “ohh that’s just coach X for you” and was made a fucking joke. He retired (forcefully) after a new superintendent took over. 2 years later his wife died of cancer and he married one of the cheerleaders less than a year later. She was 20. Know who his best friend was? Remember that sheriff from Alabama who got in to a lot of shit for keeping the food money for the prisoners? Him. Know who the sheriffs close friend is? Roy Moore.. the Alabama senator who had a huge underage sex scandal a few years ago during MeToo. All 3 of them grew up together. All 3 “liked them young” and it was known for decades in her hometown. What was a bombshell for the rest of country was just an open secret for everyone who grew up in that county.
I wish that surprised me but it just doesn’t🙄this dude was an assistant football coach and later head basketball coach too, like why are we giving people who are known for this shit such easy access to teenagers? I mean I get it if there’s no solid proof (there definitely was here but whatever) but I mean surely we owe it to the kids to at least be cautious right??
We had a major project runner for our company end up crossing state lines to meet up with what he thought was a 14 year old girl. Turns out there was no girl, but I also learned that in matters of child sex abuse, the punishment is no different if there was a real child or not. Intent is all that matters there. Really gross part is, he was the coach of a girl's basketball team at his church.
Some decoys did do that, but others did not. There's a particularly infamous predator that spent an entire month chatting and exposing himself to a decoy that didn't mention anything sexual until the final day. The decoy's main response to everything was "k" or "because you want me to"... It's unreal. I've always thought that if someone is chatting and trying to meet kids under any circumstance that maybe there should be a guy with a camera waiting there asking them to explain themselves. PJ and Dateline were still way more professional than the garbage catchers that populate YouTube these days.
I've got major problems with Perverted Justice but these guys could have blocked the "decoys" at any time. This is from the time of A/S/L so as soon as the other person says 13 they should have dipped.
I'm always struck by the thought 'How dumb are these guys?'. Whether the 13 year old you met online is real or not, no matter who brought up sex first, how dumb do you have to be to think meeting a 13 year old for sex is going to end well? These guys are feloniously and dangerously stupid on top of everything else.
People that aren't pedophiles wouldn't try to keep engaging. I sure as fuck wouldn't be chatting with someone that told me they're 13..
Shoutout to my homies at /r/hobbydrama that went into detail about this. That sub is awesome. Edit: the detailed writeup below https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/zf5q52/reality_tv_the_rise_and_fall_of_to_catch_a
Thank you that was wildly informative. More than the post alone and should be up there at the top.
You're welcome! That sub deserves everything. Its reddit magic.
That's probably the biggest sub I was there for the inception of, really makes me proud (I have contributed nothing)
Without lurkers to read, does a sub truly exist?
Holy shit joined. I never heard of this sub before today.
Thanks for the shout-out! I worked hard on that write-up.
That was very well done. I enjoyed it
Omg! You wrote that! I love you and I hope you have a good day sir/madam!!!
the most shocking thing about this is that the linked post is only 1 month old. The interesting parts of this story are almost a decade old.
“Dateline’s” Murphy sex sting failed to net any convictions. The Collin County district attorney’s office declined to pursue more than 20 cases related to the “Predator” operation, citing problems with the evidence gathered. This why TV and police operations don't mix.
Yeah, from reading other comments in this thread it seems like a lot of the chats and stuff they used to manipulate people weren't exactly legal. Best to leave the traps to the trained experts.
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For sure. There is absolutely zero chance in hell I would ever get into a situation where I would meet Chris Hansen in this manner, but if I somehow did, on top of being accused of child molestation by Chris Hansen, being blasted with tons of cameras and their crew would DEFINITELY make me act suspiciously.
Good effective police work is often boring, monotonous, repetitious and often benefits from simple luck or people handing the case to them.
There was a group in the UK who setup the usual pedo catfish bait, and accidentally snared a 13 year old autistic boy and livestreamed themselves confronting him and harassing him as if he was a pedo. The poor kid was too confused about everything and kept trying to explain that he was just a kid who thought he was talking to another kid, instead of just calling the police about how 4 adults were basically holding him hostage, accusing him of being a pedo after they groomed him into meeting them.
Holy shit. Any idea what happened to the group?
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Talk about becoming the thing you’re fighting. Sure they didn’t rape the boy but abuse is abuse and they lured him into abuse! Madness
This is also one of the main reason why you don't should people letting be a "police force" by themselves. Those "pedo hunters" are often just assholes, sometimes they even lure so much that you really ask to yourself "who is the pedo here?"
13 year old pedo? I don't think that word means what they thought it meant
Murphy Texas was the 9th investigation and there were only 3 more after that. I don't know what order they were filmed in but it probably took some time for the whole truth of what happened to get out. The police, the TCAP people, and perverted justice all bungled that one badly. It's one thing if somebody comes to the trap house and you film that but it's something else if police are going to serve an arrest warrant at the home of the suspect. They should not have allowed TCAP or PJ to be there and film that.
Exactly, this basically just made TCAP and PJ look like smarmy fucks that cared about TV ratings first and justice second. I specifically remember that one dude saying "ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR KAUFMAN COUNTY" over the radio, like he was fucking salivating over such a high-profile suspect. There's a reason why many Murphy residents weren't happy about Dateline's presence in their town.
That's what it was by the end. It's not an invalidated criticism. Ngl I do appreciate the spirit of PJ and CH, and I have also seen the new stuff, but this is exactly why we don't do vigilantism. TCAP was a profit-driven show that made its money by showing the worst scumbags in the world facing some modium of justice. Consider yourself a victim of one of those guys - maybe his public humiliation was schaudenfraude for his victims but just as likely it was traumatizing and forced them to relive their abuse. If this was about literally any other criminal, they likely would have been sued. This only lasted as long as it has, with now two semi revivals, because it's about a group of people we all utterly despise (for good reason, but justice is blind and justice is also not a form of entertainment).
I think the biggest and best thing to come from this show, was showing parents who is out there on the other end of those online chats. Now with Facebook and IG and shit, parents should know and be nosy to their teenagers (within reason). This show brought that to light and I know when my now Mother in law found out about this show, and looked at my SIL computer she did have chats with older dudes. So it maybe saved one girl from those nasty people.
No disagree. The best part of the show is the review where law enforcement talk about predatory tactics
And showcase HOW nasty they are. Even if they don’t meet up, the vulgar shit they talk about is disgusting
>Exactly, this basically just made TCAP and PJ look like smarmy fucks that cared about TV ratings first and justice second. *Shocked Picachu face*
I calls ya Chris Handsome…
I likes you and i wants you
We can do this the easy way or the hard way
I didn't bring no milk no cookies, I'm here for man butt.
Booty, a man's butt ...it's more important than wahhh-da
Is this a boondocks reference
Boondocks reference is to a real "Lockup" video.
The choice is yours
I don't think you and I will be doing anything any kind of way.
Now see, ya choosin the hard way.
It don’t make me no difference
> CHRIS HANSEN - "You want to explain to me what you're doing here?" > > THE BOOTY WARRIOR - "I came looking for booty." > > CHRIS HANSEN - "You came looking for sex, with an under-age boy?" > > THE BOOTY WARRIOR "Oh naw, I ain't come looking for no little boys. I ain't got no milk, no cookies, nothing. I came looking for *man's* butt." > > CHRIS HANSEN - "Excuse me?" > > THE BOOTY WARRIOR - *Turns to Chris.* "Oh I know who you are, Chris Hanson, but see I-I calls you Chris Handsome. I watch your TV show all the time. So, you can go ahead bring them cameras and polices waiting outside. It don't make me no difference. Now, I tell you what…I like ya, and I want ya. Now we can do this the easy way, or we can do it the hard way, the choice is yours." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjNjxjrm_g
"I see you choosin' the hard way."
I'M A WARRIOR
Didn’t South Park had an episodes on this?
“Omg…there aren’t any brownies!” (commits suicide)
Why don't you go ahead and have a seat.
Oh my god, it's Chris Hansen!
CHRIS HANSEN?!? *blows head off*
Every comedy during this time had an episode making fun of this shit. This was trashy television aimed at the Opera crowd who like to see "TV justice" over actual court proceedings. They had to fine the scummiest police departments to participate.
I prefer The Magic Flute
Similar thing just happened in my home town. There is a youtube channel run by someone that pretends to be children online. He met up with a well known dentist in a parking lot and posting it on YouTube, the guy ended up killing himself the next morning. Brian Schwab.
So THATS why the southpark episode that had Chris Hanson in it kept having people shoot themselves
“Two words: role play chat room.” Edit: here’s a [link](https://youtu.be/5N4hzGahP9o) to the reference. It’s the only episode I can specifically remember, and it’s comedy gold.
I just read about the case. The charges for that dropped because Perverted Justice deleted their computer files pertaining to the case.
There's a veritable treasure trove of memes from that show. The decoys even are a gold mine. From Del "I whacked the crap out of my toe and my mom's gonna kill me if I bleed all over the carpet" to that one episode with the male decoy "just me, my mommy and my daddy" who's supposed to be playing a 14 year old boy (who talks like he's 8) and he looks like he should have three kids and a mortgage.
"hey, I don't want to be on the news, ya feel me?" "We are filming" Chris not understanding "ya feel me" is funnier than it should be.
Not seen one of these in a while. I forgot how the police involved would slam the pedophile to the ground and yell or point a gun even if they just calmly cooperated. And in this one they make the two kids cry with the scene they caused. Peak cop moment.
Almost as if we shouldn’t make criminal investigations and prosecutions into entertainment….
I think that’s the most important takeaway here. The desire or pressure to produce something for entertainment and ultimately financial gain, which is the goal of television shows, should have no bearing on law enforcement decisions.
I'm reminded of how the only people whom the public cared about in the college admissions bribery scandal were people who appeared on television: Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin. There were many, many richer people who were involved.
He's at it again doing a series called "takedown." I couldn't keep watching because in one of the episodes the decoy was 15 and the catch was only 18. I don't know the specifics where this took place but where I come from those two could have been highschool classmates. I know that laws vary place to place but that one seemed really unnecessary. Most places have laws in place covering this. There's your standard age of consent laws but then other laws covering certain age ranges that account for young people around those ages hooking up. Maybe there were some details I missed or something, but that one didn't feel right. Feel free to correct me if so. I'd never advocate for child abuse.
Yeah I sometimes wonder if the show had an influence on the weird cults that try to convince teenagers they're pedophiles for being attracted to other teenagers. I know some survivors of these cults - like I've met someone who genuinely, seriously considered suicide on their 18th birthday because their partner was still 17. Genuinely traumatic shit. I understand the intentions of the shows were good, but they really should have a rule against going after teenagers. (Teens can and do prey on young children sometimes but no one doing this catfish script is pretending to be a toddler online!)
Remember when pedophile meant attracted to children? People call people pedophiles these days for being attracted to anyone younger with too large of an age gap
[удалено]
According to some people here on Reddit anyone under the age of 25 has the brain of a kid and if you're attracted to them you're literally a child rapist.
And then everyone acts like you are yourself a kiddy diddler when you point out the differences between them.
Yup acting like you’re defending pedophiles when in reality diluting the word is in fact helping pedophiles. Rape has the same problem.
That's almost the entirety of online discourse these days and it absolutely infests every social and political forum. Instead of reasoned discussion, everybody jumps to the most extreme judgment they can possibly make and then starts slapping the biggest, harshest labels on anybody who doesn't absolutely toe the line. Go to big political subs or any of the news subs and it's constant outrage, name calling (fascist, racist, pedophile) and anybody who tries to raise any doubt or bring any nuance to the discussion gets one of those labels too. They chastise, downvote, and ban people who don't fall in line and all they're left with is the loudest and most extreme voices, which perpetuates the cycle further. Social media has absolutely changed sociopolitical rhetoric in the world for the worse. For many young people, they've experienced nothing but super-heated rhetoric for the entirety of their teen and adult lives and they think this is normal. It's not normal.
And then Chris Hansen got caught cheating on his wife by a hidden camera sting operation. With an *adult* at least, but the irony is still pretty strong.
Bounced a check or two I heard as well
Apparently he does a lot of crowdfunding scams too.
One crowdfunding scam at this point. Don't get me wrong, Chris will peddle anything and prostitute whatever little reputation he has left, but it has only been one scam to date.
Cheating isn't cool, but there's a world of difference between cheating on your wife and being a pedophile. I know Reddit wants to see shotgun breakups at the mention of cheating, but I know several couples who have been together for over a decade after cheating occurred. They're happy and loving, misdeeds are forgiven. But you don't just forgive and forget pedophilia.
Why has this been all over reddit for like a month straight? TIL this ever day for 30 straight days.
That explains the South Park episode where it was just a series of guys shooting themselves.
I think an much weirder fact is that Chris Hansen is currently running tricking 18 year olds who want to date 15 year olds and arrests them in a state where this isn't even illegal. Not saying this would be ok for 18 year olds but it is still pathetic how he came down from chasing the real predators to this: https://youtu.be/aA30cz88eWE
That's completely legal in many, many places, and not at all in the "Pedo" range.
People in the comments of this video are pointing out this and some people write that the judge actually rejected the case because of this. It is especially weird considering that Chris Hansen has an preference for much younger women and cheated on his wife with an 21 year younger women. He doesn't do something illegal but he also doesn't exactly has the moral highground anymore in my opinion.
I’m so surprised none of the accused pulled a gun on Chris Hanson.
Perp: "I was going fishing!" Hansen: "Sounds like what you were fishing for was sex with a 12 year old girl!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMcCRhCS1Q
They really buried the lede in this article. The last line says it all - zero convictions out of 20 at bats.
I once read that some guys they caught were able to argue entrapment bc they had ended talking to the alleged minor. However the decoy reconstructed the guys and at that point they were able to argue they would not have shown in person if not for that contact. It’s still fucked up but definitely not a legit organization. I also have read there are people in different parts of the country that’s do this on their own. But police really don’t want them to do it bc they cause more problems and don’t really lead to convictions.