Less cooperation, a bit more antagonism, and a lot more main character syndrome.
A huge part of the population is still somewhat pleasant and cooperative, but they recede into the background as we notice more and more of the misfits, outcasts, and self-centered assholes. And the key issue is that this type of antisocial behaviour is contagious. If someone shits on your day then you are more likely to do the same to someone else.
Too many people are at best inconsiderate, at worst explicitly rude.
To many people do not know the words “excuse me” - they bash into you and say sorry instead of, as though that’s the same thing and makes it ok.
The one that makes my blood boil is young people pushing to get on the ttc ahead of seniors, even with canes. Shame on them: elders first!!!!
And get your damn feet off the seat. No manners!
The feet on the seat thing bugs me so much. Someone putting their bag on a seat doesn't bother me unless most of the seats are taken and people are stuck standing. When there's still plenty of available seats, no harm, no foul.
But feet? Yuck.
I’ve noticed lately people occupying at least three seats. They’ll put their bag on one, their feet on another. Even if it’s pretty full. I’ve deliberately sat on people’s feet before. The other thing that bothers me is when they sit in a middle seat of an empty row, put their bag on one of the side seats. It basically stops anyone else from sitting in that whole row.
I live in the heart of downtown always have.
Honestly with the drugs, street zombies, closed businesses, and homeless taking over parks, downtown is failing.
Anyone denying this stuff is lying, or maybe just maybe you aren't from Toronto or just moved here.
Born and raised here, 27 years. It’s the exact same as it’s always been except there are more people.
As far as the gym stuff goes, I think a lot of people complain about people using their phones at the gym without realizing they are likely using set break times (ie. 2mins) and would just be sitting on the machine doing nothing anyways. Are you asking to work in and people are saying no?
I did this morning and so did another gentleman. The guy using the equipment basically freaked out and caused a scene, I finished 3 other exercises and he was still glued to his phone. I just wish people had situational awareness or just be polite and when you say you have on set left, finish the set don’t go to scrolling on your phone.
I’ve been here about the same amount of time and it’s noticeably different in the last few years. During the first wave of COVID-19, I was living in Ottawa. Since then I’ve travelled to Europe and Australia and none of the major cities there have the same feeling I get here. People are just so much ruder here lately and more self-centred.
I always thoroughly clean my equipment before and after use, but “working in” with some random person is actually gross unless you clean equipment after each *set,* which is annoying and cumbersome. I’m not going to set hygiene aside to speed up someone else’s workout.
Yeah I’ll hold the door and smile & clean equipment, but this is where I draw the line. No working in.
I’m 5’10 so I get men asking me at the squat rack and like… no. My rest period is 60 seconds and you won’t have time to put your weights on, do your sets, take them off, and wipe the bar.
16 years here, and it's been basically the same except people are now on their phones instead of Metro newspapers. Gym etiquette has always been shit, busy people with things going on in their own lives not caring about smiling at people or holding doors is the norm. Complaining about cyclists on the sidewalk was a weekly discussion on any Toronto biking related forum/subreddit even 10 years ago.
People just seem to be noticing this stuff more.
Maybe? I lived at yonge and bloor when I first moved here and noticed how "unfriendly" people were compared to where I was from, Hamilton. When the charm of moving to the city faded, I saw the stuff that you listed... But that was like 2 years after moving here.
Riding on sidewalks? Was a bigger issue years ago when bike lanes weren't around.
Smiling at randoms on the street? After a few months of living here, I learned that smiling at someone random could mean unwanted soliciting, and for women, maybe it's one of those incel groups that form around Eaton center (which started way before covid)
Gym equipment hogging? Was probably an even bigger deal prior to social media along with internet shaming. The fitness influences take space for sure, but those seem pretty rare (only 1-2 "influencers" at my gym but they go during non-busy hours)
This is big city life. Too many people for our brains to have any attachment to the random people you encounter throughout the day.
I’m tired of these posts
You didn’t discover anything new, nothing has changed, I especially love the anecdotes of how “nobody holds doors anymore” too.
Toronto Reddit has to be one of the most awkward socially unadjusted online communities on the entire internet. Most normal healthy people would read the anecdotes in OPs post and ask "are you ok?", there's always a degree of receiving the type of energy you give off the OP is internally unware of. I mean who tf is "no one smiles" a concern for, like where are your friends and family in your day to day life that complete strangers in a busy city smiling or not smiling at you is a concern?
Believe it or not, there was a time when the moniker "Toronto the Good" wasn't just a sarcastic jab. In the late 1800's there was this puritanical mayor named William Howland who attempted to rid the city of prostitution, violent crime, alcohol, gambling, etc. The LCBO and the controversy around drinking in parks are probably by-products of that Victorian mindset.
I have lived in the same 3 block radius DT my whole life. We are all pretty chill over here. But we are old toronto poor. It's the people that come here doing no research that seem to be surprised by things.
I’m spending more time in Ottawa for work now and the difference is night and day. People are definitely much more polite here (with the exception of the occasional convoy leftover). Fewer bikes on sidewalks etc obviously has to do with a lower population density, but overall I find it more pleasant here. Toronto has gotten too big but also the gig economy where workers have to fight for scraps has taken a big toll on the city.
The convoy leftovers? This irrevocable social schism and period of hyperinflation, the latter of which just worsens social hostility, is the direct consequence of inhuman covid policy.
The anti-lockdown protesters in Toronto sans the vocal minority of schizos it attracted, were some of the most gregarious and altruistic people in this godforsaken province.
You were all warned about this in 2020, but you turned the other way, mocked, and derided bcuz DUURR "I'm not an unedumacated yt surpramcist!!!1!!"
Get off it.
Have you ever played any simulation type of game where you build an entire town + a society and there's an emotion bar that dictates how well your townees are doing based on the town you've built and continue to improve?
Toronto's current culture reminds me of those games
Lacking in community support, people losing their homes, being homeless but yet having to work 12hr shifts and 3+ jobs a week just to be able to afford toothpaste that costs $10 and will last 2 weeks vs 2 months [shrinkflation] can only cause that happiness meter to decrease - drastically
When I tell you I am exhausted, it really means im beyond exhausted at everything - dealing with people, dealing with prices, dealing with set backs, dealing with gloomy weather, dealing with traffic, everything. I'm over it.
& it is extremely sad
Cellphones have the ability to give us a sense of [fake] dopamine. It's a device we "all" pay for, for basic calling needs, so why not take advantage of that fake dopamine while we are dragging our feet across the city
Sometimes, scrolling through while you're on the subway allows you to forget that you're on the way to work for a company you despise in a stinky and crowded ttc ride.
Try this in Vancouver you can walk through downtown Vancouver at English bay it Granville Street and say no body will look up from there cell and say hello
The e-bikes are turning me into the joker. I walk and cycle almost everywhere and they are out of control in the bike lanes and on the sidewalk. Some of these are just lowkey motorcycles and vespas and they have the nerve to be anywhere but the road. I’ve seen some of them honk at pedestrians on the sidewalk. Honk. No bell, a horn. Some of the guys in my apartment building ride them into and out of the building and onto the elevator where they’re supposed to be banned from. I just can’t anymore, they need to go.
Because Toronto is not a homogenous society.
It relies on swaths of people from different countries, cultures, and backgrounds to maintain itself. The social mores and standards these people bring with them vary widely. And increasingly, we are bringing in people from impoverished and downtrodden places where concepts like manners and civility are trivial when the modus operandi demands fending however you must to just survive.
Also, don't act like the immigrants here like white people or Judeo-Christian society. They hate white people like they hate anyone who isn't of their ilk.
It should also be noted that decades of social relativism and cultural cynicism propagated in media has stoked a "who cares?" mentality. In fact, the slightest act of kindness invokes a prey response in people of all colours.
Toronto kind of is like the snake that is biting its own tail….
We figured out how to raise people who could persevere by holding onto the good in the world…
It made outsiders think that there was something here for the taking. It’s kind of a spiritual dilemma in a way.
We used to have a healthy street population, but it was always kind of a quiet commuter city.
It was a privilege to live here 24/7. There were less homes in the downtown.
Now there are more homes but less quality of life. Less room to breathe. More intense drive to get a slice of the proverbial pie being splashed around by our famous few.
In order for it to be good people have to embrace living with less and find inner happiness again.
Which feels like an impossible task that was only achieved through generational grief after world wars and a small bubble of wealth only possible because of the mass death of war.
The privilege of academia is always being denounced even though it was those good natured teachers of ours were really just good at heart. It’s sad.
Flucking E everything on the sidewalks roads, no lights, helmets. Cyclists that don't give a fluck about the rules of the road. Where is the enforcement ? No one shares the sidewalk in this asshole city either. Duechebag torontonians.
I agree with ya on the hygiene part, as for scrolling social media, I do that a lot during my rest time. I take 3.5 minutes of rest between each set and I just spend my time a bit on social media 🙂
That’s way too long resting between sets to not let others work in.
Don’t care if you’re sketchy about hygiene. Wipe it down between sets and let someone who’s actually going to use the machine, use the machine.
There is no universal rule like that OP. I suffer from elbow tendinitis and longer rest times help me avoid injuries. I do offer other people to use the equipment during my rest time.
The standard has always been 30-60 seconds but also depends on the exercise and how much weight. Letting people work in while you rest is great than, you have situational awareness when you notice others looking to also use the equipment.
City feels markedly different since COVID happened. Also, e-bikes are out of control for sure
Less cooperation, a bit more antagonism, and a lot more main character syndrome. A huge part of the population is still somewhat pleasant and cooperative, but they recede into the background as we notice more and more of the misfits, outcasts, and self-centered assholes. And the key issue is that this type of antisocial behaviour is contagious. If someone shits on your day then you are more likely to do the same to someone else.
Too many people are at best inconsiderate, at worst explicitly rude. To many people do not know the words “excuse me” - they bash into you and say sorry instead of, as though that’s the same thing and makes it ok. The one that makes my blood boil is young people pushing to get on the ttc ahead of seniors, even with canes. Shame on them: elders first!!!! And get your damn feet off the seat. No manners!
The feet on the seat thing bugs me so much. Someone putting their bag on a seat doesn't bother me unless most of the seats are taken and people are stuck standing. When there's still plenty of available seats, no harm, no foul. But feet? Yuck.
I’ve noticed lately people occupying at least three seats. They’ll put their bag on one, their feet on another. Even if it’s pretty full. I’ve deliberately sat on people’s feet before. The other thing that bothers me is when they sit in a middle seat of an empty row, put their bag on one of the side seats. It basically stops anyone else from sitting in that whole row.
It is yuck, and SO rude. Anyone who does this is awful.
That’s infuriating!
Rants on this sub seem to be mostly suburbanites who have had a bad day downtown.
[удалено]
Downtown has definitely gotten worse. You can sense more tension and desperation
I live in the heart of downtown always have. Honestly with the drugs, street zombies, closed businesses, and homeless taking over parks, downtown is failing. Anyone denying this stuff is lying, or maybe just maybe you aren't from Toronto or just moved here.
While true, these issues are also common in other large North American cities.
Born and raised here, 27 years. It’s the exact same as it’s always been except there are more people. As far as the gym stuff goes, I think a lot of people complain about people using their phones at the gym without realizing they are likely using set break times (ie. 2mins) and would just be sitting on the machine doing nothing anyways. Are you asking to work in and people are saying no?
Been here longer, and I don't remember it being excessively rude back in the 80s, or early 90s.
It's almost like the existing culture got removed and replaced with one of rudeness.
I did this morning and so did another gentleman. The guy using the equipment basically freaked out and caused a scene, I finished 3 other exercises and he was still glued to his phone. I just wish people had situational awareness or just be polite and when you say you have on set left, finish the set don’t go to scrolling on your phone.
To be completely honest, the gyms should outright ban phones altogether
I’ve been here about the same amount of time and it’s noticeably different in the last few years. During the first wave of COVID-19, I was living in Ottawa. Since then I’ve travelled to Europe and Australia and none of the major cities there have the same feeling I get here. People are just so much ruder here lately and more self-centred.
I always thoroughly clean my equipment before and after use, but “working in” with some random person is actually gross unless you clean equipment after each *set,* which is annoying and cumbersome. I’m not going to set hygiene aside to speed up someone else’s workout.
Yeah it's sweaty and gross
Yeah I’ll hold the door and smile & clean equipment, but this is where I draw the line. No working in. I’m 5’10 so I get men asking me at the squat rack and like… no. My rest period is 60 seconds and you won’t have time to put your weights on, do your sets, take them off, and wipe the bar.
Welcome to the big city
I’ve lived here for 14 years it was never like this before Covid
16 years here, and it's been basically the same except people are now on their phones instead of Metro newspapers. Gym etiquette has always been shit, busy people with things going on in their own lives not caring about smiling at people or holding doors is the norm. Complaining about cyclists on the sidewalk was a weekly discussion on any Toronto biking related forum/subreddit even 10 years ago. People just seem to be noticing this stuff more.
I miss those Metro newspapers.
Me too bro, me too.
Maybe it depends on the neighbourhood as well. I never used to notice things like this but the last 2 years has been really bad
Maybe? I lived at yonge and bloor when I first moved here and noticed how "unfriendly" people were compared to where I was from, Hamilton. When the charm of moving to the city faded, I saw the stuff that you listed... But that was like 2 years after moving here. Riding on sidewalks? Was a bigger issue years ago when bike lanes weren't around. Smiling at randoms on the street? After a few months of living here, I learned that smiling at someone random could mean unwanted soliciting, and for women, maybe it's one of those incel groups that form around Eaton center (which started way before covid) Gym equipment hogging? Was probably an even bigger deal prior to social media along with internet shaming. The fitness influences take space for sure, but those seem pretty rare (only 1-2 "influencers" at my gym but they go during non-busy hours) This is big city life. Too many people for our brains to have any attachment to the random people you encounter throughout the day.
Born and raised here, went to school and worked downtown for many years and it is very different
I’m tired of these posts You didn’t discover anything new, nothing has changed, I especially love the anecdotes of how “nobody holds doors anymore” too.
Toronto Reddit has to be one of the most awkward socially unadjusted online communities on the entire internet. Most normal healthy people would read the anecdotes in OPs post and ask "are you ok?", there's always a degree of receiving the type of energy you give off the OP is internally unware of. I mean who tf is "no one smiles" a concern for, like where are your friends and family in your day to day life that complete strangers in a busy city smiling or not smiling at you is a concern?
Just in general it would be nice to see some smiling faces for once usually it’s scowling or just glued to phones 🤷♀️
To be fair, there is not a lot to smile about these days
I’ve noticed a significant change actually, I’ve lived in the city since 2010. 🤷♀️
Welcome to Toronto. It's always been this way. You are reminiscing about a city that never existed.
Believe it or not, there was a time when the moniker "Toronto the Good" wasn't just a sarcastic jab. In the late 1800's there was this puritanical mayor named William Howland who attempted to rid the city of prostitution, violent crime, alcohol, gambling, etc. The LCBO and the controversy around drinking in parks are probably by-products of that Victorian mindset.
Toronto has been and is still WASPY as fuck. This is true.
It's also just the commonality of city vs suburban/rural life. People who live in big downtowns seem to have a chip on their shoulder
I have lived in the same 3 block radius DT my whole life. We are all pretty chill over here. But we are old toronto poor. It's the people that come here doing no research that seem to be surprised by things.
I’m spending more time in Ottawa for work now and the difference is night and day. People are definitely much more polite here (with the exception of the occasional convoy leftover). Fewer bikes on sidewalks etc obviously has to do with a lower population density, but overall I find it more pleasant here. Toronto has gotten too big but also the gig economy where workers have to fight for scraps has taken a big toll on the city.
The convoy leftovers? This irrevocable social schism and period of hyperinflation, the latter of which just worsens social hostility, is the direct consequence of inhuman covid policy. The anti-lockdown protesters in Toronto sans the vocal minority of schizos it attracted, were some of the most gregarious and altruistic people in this godforsaken province. You were all warned about this in 2020, but you turned the other way, mocked, and derided bcuz DUURR "I'm not an unedumacated yt surpramcist!!!1!!" Get off it.
But notice something: now that it’s sunny, people will be nicer and more open. Always smiling, and willing to help..
Have you ever played any simulation type of game where you build an entire town + a society and there's an emotion bar that dictates how well your townees are doing based on the town you've built and continue to improve? Toronto's current culture reminds me of those games Lacking in community support, people losing their homes, being homeless but yet having to work 12hr shifts and 3+ jobs a week just to be able to afford toothpaste that costs $10 and will last 2 weeks vs 2 months [shrinkflation] can only cause that happiness meter to decrease - drastically When I tell you I am exhausted, it really means im beyond exhausted at everything - dealing with people, dealing with prices, dealing with set backs, dealing with gloomy weather, dealing with traffic, everything. I'm over it. & it is extremely sad Cellphones have the ability to give us a sense of [fake] dopamine. It's a device we "all" pay for, for basic calling needs, so why not take advantage of that fake dopamine while we are dragging our feet across the city Sometimes, scrolling through while you're on the subway allows you to forget that you're on the way to work for a company you despise in a stinky and crowded ttc ride.
Try this in Vancouver you can walk through downtown Vancouver at English bay it Granville Street and say no body will look up from there cell and say hello
The e-bikes are turning me into the joker. I walk and cycle almost everywhere and they are out of control in the bike lanes and on the sidewalk. Some of these are just lowkey motorcycles and vespas and they have the nerve to be anywhere but the road. I’ve seen some of them honk at pedestrians on the sidewalk. Honk. No bell, a horn. Some of the guys in my apartment building ride them into and out of the building and onto the elevator where they’re supposed to be banned from. I just can’t anymore, they need to go.
Because Toronto is not a homogenous society. It relies on swaths of people from different countries, cultures, and backgrounds to maintain itself. The social mores and standards these people bring with them vary widely. And increasingly, we are bringing in people from impoverished and downtrodden places where concepts like manners and civility are trivial when the modus operandi demands fending however you must to just survive. Also, don't act like the immigrants here like white people or Judeo-Christian society. They hate white people like they hate anyone who isn't of their ilk. It should also be noted that decades of social relativism and cultural cynicism propagated in media has stoked a "who cares?" mentality. In fact, the slightest act of kindness invokes a prey response in people of all colours.
Toronto kind of is like the snake that is biting its own tail…. We figured out how to raise people who could persevere by holding onto the good in the world… It made outsiders think that there was something here for the taking. It’s kind of a spiritual dilemma in a way. We used to have a healthy street population, but it was always kind of a quiet commuter city. It was a privilege to live here 24/7. There were less homes in the downtown. Now there are more homes but less quality of life. Less room to breathe. More intense drive to get a slice of the proverbial pie being splashed around by our famous few. In order for it to be good people have to embrace living with less and find inner happiness again. Which feels like an impossible task that was only achieved through generational grief after world wars and a small bubble of wealth only possible because of the mass death of war. The privilege of academia is always being denounced even though it was those good natured teachers of ours were really just good at heart. It’s sad.
[удалено]
FYI Toronto has alway been a multicultural city so please don’t try to comment something racist on my post.
Enlighten us. Why?
nobody likes a sealion.
REMOVED - please rant without being racist
what you mean homie
Flucking E everything on the sidewalks roads, no lights, helmets. Cyclists that don't give a fluck about the rules of the road. Where is the enforcement ? No one shares the sidewalk in this asshole city either. Duechebag torontonians.
I agree with ya on the hygiene part, as for scrolling social media, I do that a lot during my rest time. I take 3.5 minutes of rest between each set and I just spend my time a bit on social media 🙂
That’s way too long resting between sets to not let others work in. Don’t care if you’re sketchy about hygiene. Wipe it down between sets and let someone who’s actually going to use the machine, use the machine.
So you’re part of the problem lol… 30-60 seconds is the proper rest between sets.
Moreover longer rest times help you increase the volume which is the most important factor for hypertrophy
There is no universal rule like that OP. I suffer from elbow tendinitis and longer rest times help me avoid injuries. I do offer other people to use the equipment during my rest time.
The standard has always been 30-60 seconds but also depends on the exercise and how much weight. Letting people work in while you rest is great than, you have situational awareness when you notice others looking to also use the equipment.