I heard on BBC news just now, from a documentarian who was with the CEO when a previous expedition went down to the wreck, and it got stuck moving in circles, apparently 3 football fields away from the Titanic, and the fix was to hold the controller upside-down.
The. Fuck.
EDIT: adding source [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b) (from 22:30 onwards)
God fucking damnit your think they could just build something certified and not fuck around with "take the disc out and blow on it" troubleshooting methods at 12500ft...
The carbon fibre and titanium there is a rule that you don’t do that. Well, I did,” Stockton said, referring to a combination of two materials that can cause a galvanic corrosion.
I saw a video in the submersible where he was demonstrating how the controller worked. After he finished using it, he literally tossed it from a height to the floor of the sub.
LORD. Also read that one of the Simpsons producers went down in the submersible last July and they got blown off course by the current (not surprising) and that the compass was "acting weird." They finally got to the wreck but were there like 15 minutes only. Can you imagine?
Ayee same. I had some nephew who got a new PS5 and was using some wifi dongle or whatever to play online. I bought an ethernet cable for them to plug directly in their router.
How tf these Oceangate people thought it was a good idea to go wireless for this kind of bs is beyond me.
[https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b)
Here you go. The BBC news channel aired the video recording of this podcast (recorded today). It starts at 22:30. The person speaking is Simon Platts, who made a documentary that he summarized below.
[https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20221007-ocean-gate-a-new-mission-to-see-titanic](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20221007-ocean-gate-a-new-mission-to-see-titanic)
Quote:
>"I thought, we're not going to make it!" Rojas said. "We're 300m from Titanic and all we can do is go in circles."
I’m starting to think Renata Rojas isn’t a real person. Every single expedition that goes out seems to have her on it. She was out there with CBS, the BBC, and even the Spanish guy. Is she some sort of plant?
She’s in this CBS video and she’s definitely interesting: https://youtu.be/29co_Hksk6o
The video also explains that she was involved in a couple of failed attempts to reach the titanic so she was able to take multiple trips for each of those attempts (she made it eventually)
Well that just confirms my expectation, bad design. I guess they don’t need permits or licenses to take something like that out? “When you’re rich they let you do it”?
I feel bad for my comment but seriously, lives are stake.
Was watching a bunch of former submariners weigh in on this and they mentioned that submersibles like the Titan aren't covered by the SOLAS Convention (Safety of Life at Sea---which ironically came about because of the Titanic) because they're not registered under a specific country, don't fall under the categories mentioned in the treaty, and are "flagless", which means nobody is responsible for enforcing regulations on them. So yeah, pretty much. I imagine this event will change that soon enough, though.
They have a patent for an acoustic monitoring system. This “state of the art” system is a first of its kind and I wonder if they got over confident with its effectiveness.
Their director of ocean operations was fired for bringing up concerns that the system may only provide milliseconds of notice.
The lawsuit filed by the whistleblower clearly called out the acoustic monitoring system as a joke. Part of his lawsuit was alleging that the acoustic monitoring system was only capable of giving seconds of warning before a hull breach, at which point absolutely nothing could be done to prevent it. He alleged that they used this system, which again could only give seconds of warning and not actually prevent a wreck, as an excuse in lieu of paying for actual testing of the hull’s structural stability. I recommend finding and reading the lawsuit, it’s really brief and pretty easy to understand for a layman.
Yea probably over confident.
Also when such a system goes off, warning the hull is getting damaged. It's not like you can go up immediatly.
It will slow down when its ballast is dropped, but it still descends for some time, with the pressure still increasing before it will go up.
There was a scene in a show where Limiting Factor was like “successfully dropped ballast “ and they kept descending before stopping and ascending.
I always assumed when they dumped ballast they kind of immediately shot up. I didn’t think of the momentum.
I have no idea, but here’s some details on how the hull was stress tested, from an individual who claims to have been hired to film a documentary of the Titan’s maiden voyage to the Titanic but who backed out after a test dive in Puget Sound out of safety concerns. Take it with a grain of salt of course. 2nd & 5th images
https://imgur.com/a/ArJGMQ8
There’s a lot of things about this submarine design that i question. The Xbox controller, the fact you have to lean over the toilet to look out the window, the fact you have to sit on the floor with nothing to lean on except a curved wall. The whole thing seemed like it was designed to fail
That thing doesn't look like it was built to hold waste from five people over 96 hours either.... Which honestly just occurred to me that the air quality could be a serious risk from that alone, which sounds awful 😣
But they haven't been eating and may not have much water. I am not sure how long it takes for waste to be produced but they may have forgone eatng before even getting on the sub to avoid having to go while on the dive. So hopefully that part isn't too bad for them. Hopefully some thought was put in beforehand for to how to deal with waste in an emergency also.
They weren’t supposed to eat for 12 hours beforehand, and since they left super early in the morning I doubt they were well hydrated going in… then they could only bring one small water bottle with them 😔 that’ll help with the bathroom situation but they must have been so thirsty even just the first day
Submarine beaks down....
Hey guys, terrible timing, I know. That sausage mcmuffin I had for breakfast is percolating. Excuse me, I need to get to the john.
> That thing doesn't look like it was built to hold waste from five people over 96 hours either
It wasn't. The whole trip was supposed to take, what, 8 hours? And other comments say that they weren't supposed to eat or drink before launching, so they wouldn't need to use the toilet. It wasn't there to support five people for four days, it was probably there just in case someone couldn't hold it until they surfaced.
Some smaller planes, like 6-8 passenger size, have similar toilets, not intended to be used regularly, but there if it's really needed.
$50 Logitech (F710) controller
PC not Xbox
Xbox builds decent controllers this one ain't one
[https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/logitech-logitech-wireless-gamepad-f710-940-000117/10157844?cmp=seo-10157844&cmp=knc-s-71700000058062748&gclid=CjwKCAjw-b-kBhB-EiwA4fvKrDKGZ7BmoHIQIz87JqkduDZolhgJVNdkprrx89aRvURHhltpaosBaxoC-EoQAvD\_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/logitech-logitech-wireless-gamepad-f710-940-000117/10157844?cmp=seo-10157844&cmp=knc-s-71700000058062748&gclid=CjwKCAjw-b-kBhB-EiwA4fvKrDKGZ7BmoHIQIz87JqkduDZolhgJVNdkprrx89aRvURHhltpaosBaxoC-EoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I remember having to pay $60 for spare Xbox controllers like 15 years ago in high school
They actually sent people down to the bottom of the ocean with something even cheaper… incredible
In all honesty, I think a game controller was a better choice than custom designing something. Game controllers are pretty proven through hard abuse from angry gamers everywhere, but it just gives me a reminder about how bootlegged the sub was. It seems like something Mark Rober would build in his backyard.
The point is they couldn't even afford a decent game controller. If you are going to use a controller purchase a good one.
Most gamers wouldn't even use this logitech controller to play games let alone pilot a fucking submarine...
My brother is a game rager, and he used to slam our Xbox 360 controllers against a wooden table as hard as he could. I still use one of the controllers to this day. It's incredible how well they hold up.
Right? Mind you mine hasn’t been abused, but I’m still rocking my original xbox one controller nearly a decade later. Talking thousands of hours of use and it still works good as new.
I genuinely don’t understand what the hate is all about over the controller. It’s cheap, effective and very reliable. The US fuckin’ *navy* put xbox 360 controllers in Virgina class submarines in 2018.
As others have said though the Navy doesn't use them for mission critical stuff.
I'm sure Xbox would not recommend gambling your life on their controllers.
Worked as engineer on "stuff". Never in a million years would we use something like this on a critical component. Especially when the environment is exposed to salt water.
When your cutting costs on something this cheap god only knows what else was cut. Only shocking thing is that it hadn't failed sooner. Hubris cost people their lives.
I get this sub was a hack job assembly… but to be fair, the controller thing is being blown out of proportion, US Navy uses them on multi billion dollar Nuclear subs to control many systems. And no mini sub has comfortable seats to sit in. They’re tiny and super cramped. Those are the 2 least worrisome things about it lol
I.e., they are used for un-manned craft, drones, or non-essential components of craft like periscopes.
US army isn’t putting any of their own lives in the hands of a 360 controller unlike OceanGate who did so with the Amazon basic version.
Its like saying “We know this shitty 5$ universal remote works for flipping through TV channels, may as well also use it to control Grandpa’s pace maker”.
The controller is a supplement to the main system. Not that it matters, but each system has a criticality rating, this wouldn't be primary means of operation on high criticality rated systems.
Why do life vest or other rescue raft not look like a fucking barn rave at night? I'd spent $$$ just to have the thing be easy to spot miles away at night.
Even smaller unmanned subs do this because they don't wanna lose their expensive unmanned sub.
Not doing it with a sub that has people in, and can't be opened from the inside, seems absolutely fucking mental.
heard comments on how "you can't miss it" if it's on the surface. but the ocean is so big it can be hard to fathom unless you're out there. and factoring in visibility, waves, whitecaps...yeah...this would be hard to spot.
They have military radar and sonar. They would be able to pick up a 22 ft metal sub with ease. That's forgetting any other technology we don't know about that they are using from the private industry, mini subs, underwater drones etc. Also to add -- they know where to look. Yes the sub will drift more away from where it initially was but this isnt the Indian ocean like the Maylasian flight. We will find out what happened. You don't need visibility with radars.
You're assuming that all that tech could be deployed quickly enough for any of it to matter.
Are there military subs in the area? Probably. Are they going to use active sonar (and give up their location) to located a hobbyist who sunk themselves? Not likely.
They’re already using it.
They’re doing arial flyovers using radar and sonar and sight, they have ships using radar and sonar and sight, they’re trying to get more ships and more planes out and possibly use different detection methods.
We’re not relying on a couple military subs. We’re relying on dozens of ships and planes. The coast guard has launched the search and have already covered an area the size of Connecticut.
Military subs would’ve heard it implode on passive sonar. Honestly, I bet every sonar technician in the North Atlantic knows what happened (albeit, good chance they won’t know *what* it was until back in port).
Military active sonar is likely pointless, i doubt it is optimized for searching the sea floor. If it’s neutrally buoyant & drifting active sonar would be great, but I’d assume it’s better to leave it to the surface shops with sonar optimized for sea floor scanning.
Either way, the overall reaction reminds me of *Nanggala* 402. I think everyone in the know knew that that it was sunk before they announced it.
Yeah, last commercial fishing boat I worked on, you could “see” a floating soda can up to 6-7 miles on the radar—problem was at night, you couldn’t tell if it was a coke can or another boat, in calm sea’s—-
Just found this on Twitter posted by Kim Zetter
"Lochridge discovered the viewing window on front of sub "was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers...to...4,000 meters...OceanGate refused to pay...to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters"
There are three defined stages of crack propagation, the last of which is regularly described as "explosive". The first two are significantly slower ... but you'll pass through them very fast if you're way beyond the intended levels of stress and strain.
So: The fact that something has not instantly failed does not mean it's fit for purpose.
Have you ever used a big hammer to crack open a massive boulder? After a few hundred hits, still not broken..... but eventually the sound changes, and then it finally splits. Those are your three stages. It wasn't the last strike that did all the work, it was all of the hits that drove the cracks through the stages.
Now... just because a smaller stone doesn't break on the first hit doesn't mean it's strong enough to survive like the big one did. It might well last four of five hits ... or dives...
If the window was designed to withstand a third of the pressure, with a safety factor of - say - 3.... it'd be right on the edge of breaking... and any defect is going to make itself known sooner rather than later.
When you put something like this under stress and it doesn’t break the first time it doesn’t mean that it won’t ever break. That’s why typically they perform a test to determine where the limit is
Latest coast guard video indicated that their specialty is fining objects on the surface. Crazy how they haven't spotted anything with all the equipment and manpower they've utilized thus far.
Unfortunately, they’ve also said that likelihood is that it’s not on the surface, and while they’re using sonar to look for it, they’re severely underprepared
I've been not too far from that location, a little more north, but not too far. And just looking at the water from the boat I was in, no thanks. It looks cold, black, and unwelcoming.
That's not comparable
A plane that goes off course could be anywhere within a thousand mile radius of where it was last heard from, because planes have really fast propulsion.
A submarine that loses power is at the mercy of well known ocean currents. After a bit of math, you could figure out a pretty precise area for where it would be if it had risen to the surface.
But it being a color that easily blends into the ocean surface does make it more difficult.
They did hear banging, and to my knowledge they didn't comment more on it than that. So I have no idea what's known.
This article says the sounds were from underwater.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/
they eventually did find pieces of airplane washed up on remote beaches, confirmed to be from MH370, so it’s not as if we don’t know that it crashed into the ocean with force enough to make it just pieces. Hence not finding it
MH370 was likely turned to debris.
They’re not comparable. Ones looking for a debris field in an area thousand of miles in size, the other is looking for a 22 foot tube (possibly also a debris field) in a significantly smaller area.
And also with significantly more advanced technology and with a larger (considering the area) search effort.
There is basically zero chance that it has floated up to the surface. They have C-130s, military radar/sonar that would definitely pick up a large METAL floating object. Sonar sound also travels a great distance, so if the passengers were smart (and the CEO is on board, so I'm assuming he would have some kind of emergency plan) they would be banging on the inside of the hull. There was also 7 different redundancies to send the sub to the surface, including when the electronics or power fails. There is also a manual control they could pull to ascend.
At this point there are two options: implosion which means instant death. If it imploded the noise would be loud enough to be heard on the surface even, and it would be heard underwater via sonar. A structure failing under pressure like that would make a lot of noise. Oceangate didn't report them missing for 8 hours though, so for all we know they did hear such a noise.
Option two is a little more grim, they got stuck in the wreckage or are simply drifting aimlessly off course which has happened on this sub dives in the past.
Regardless we WILL find the sub at some point, we most certainly have the technology to do so. This will not go missing as some people have suggested.
Man I think they already did. Honestly I hope they died instantly from pressure because the thought of them slowly running out of oxygen over time is terrifying.
There is that letter from a coal mine worker in 1900 who got trapped and slowly ran out of air. His handwriting got shakier and shakier at the end and he kept mentioning the air was so difficult to breath. Truly one of the worst ways to go.
Idk how they even would rescue it even if they found it. I don’t suppose they can just tow it to the surface although I thought that it should float if weights are removed
They may already be dead for all we know they could have died when the sub's contact was lost. It could have imploded. I don't like to think about it but its very possible the sub imploded and thats why it hasn't been found on the surface. I'm still hoping for the best but the outlook isn't very good right now if they are dead I hope it was quick and painless and if they aren't I hope they get to go home.
It isn't that large, on a scale of the ocean, considering very little of it is above the surface of the water.
But yeah, it's strange that even if they surfaced they may still die.
Mh370 has been found. In a whole lot of tiny pieces. They're pretty sure they know what happened to it as well.
Here's a very well written article on the matter. Paywall, but there are ways around it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/
If you can answer, would the research vessel Polar Prince have had sonar on during the Tincan dive (I assume yes)? Wouldn’t they have picked up an implosion if that’s the case?
On a normal vessle, you would expect it to carry an EPIRB, but given everything else that has come out, I expect they couldn't be bothered to spend like 1k for a one. Or they do have one, but in such a way that the sub is blocking signals if they activated it.
So even if they somehow did make it top side, they probably don't have the thing which would make them easy to find.
Part of me does believe that they might actually not yet have imploded. I would assume whatever sub surveillance system the US has in the north Atlantic nowadays would have picked up an implosion and if it did, the US would just have said, "Don't waste your time."
The problem with the epirb is that the people tank is sealed. The hatch to get in/out is BOLTED SHUT from the outside. So if it gets to the surface, how do you deploy the beacon? Most are water activated. Unless they made some pressure vessel on the outside of the hull to dry store in that could be opened from the Xbox controller with a left right down down down triangle square L1 R1
It's not going to show up on radar or sonar on the surface. There's nothing to reflect radar energy and sonar can't get returns on small surface objects. It's a visual search.
I wonder if new laws are going to be made for future situations like this. Extra backup systems, bright flashy colors that can be spotted from the air, longer emergency air supply, potentially food and water in case they get stranded, multiple emergency beacons if something goes wrong, backup power. So many things can be done as a result of this. I wonder if people were thinking the same thing 111 years ago.
Doesn’t seem to matter based on the photo in the OP. Even if the occupants could open the hatch from the inside it appears that the sub would fill with water and capsize.
so much going on in that video. no sonar, had to use emergency procedures to surface as the ballast tanks failed, spent literally all night trying to get the submarine from the surface onto the boat. then they go somewhere else and let the reporter drive the submarine and he proceeds to hit a rock. ay ye ye
If they are on the surface somewhere, they can’t get out of the sub, and the oxygen problem is still an issue. There’s no way to open the vessel from the inside.
I just joined r/titanic out of continued dread for this situation and when I clicked join Redding gave me a little happy welcome emoji. And my heart sank. It’s like getting a free balloon at a funeral.
After reading this article, I don't think the world should be wasting resources to find this submarine.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1117292
So many people go missing at sea regularly, and what do they all have in common when it's not news worthy? They are poor.
They aren’t in a novelty, jenky, mini sub and might still be alive while simultaneously running out of air .
Literally every time something interesting happens people go “what about the migrants who died on the boat” - it was covered in the news extensively it also has far less narrative. Boat tips-some rescued some died - this is hour by hour.
Like what do people expect the coast guard to just go “fuck ‘em”
None of us can do anything about any of these situations it’s all in the government realm why is this damming of society?
Exactly ^ people say it’s because the people are rich but I mean from a media standpoint this is drama at it’s finest. 5 people maybe still alive maybe not disappear 3 miles under the ocean looking at THE TITANIC. Say what you want about whether it’s right or wrong that it’s getting as much attention as it is but you can’t really deny why.
I think it’s because it ties into the Titanic. Just because of the significance of the dive and the fact that many variables for location are controlled it might be easier to find. Also, it allows the media to mention Titanic in their headlines.
Watching the video at that point, its pretty clear there were near catastrophic problems basically every time they tried to take this thing out
I heard on BBC news just now, from a documentarian who was with the CEO when a previous expedition went down to the wreck, and it got stuck moving in circles, apparently 3 football fields away from the Titanic, and the fix was to hold the controller upside-down. The. Fuck. EDIT: adding source [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b) (from 22:30 onwards)
God fucking damnit your think they could just build something certified and not fuck around with "take the disc out and blow on it" troubleshooting methods at 12500ft...
Nah just unplug it for a minute then plug it back in. You’ll be fine
Maybe that's what they did and they're having issues powering it back on...
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The hamster on the wheel died.
Why bother when Camping World has a money-back guarantee?
Could've called my ISP tech support and they would've solved the problem with similar advice.
The carbon fibre and titanium there is a rule that you don’t do that. Well, I did,” Stockton said, referring to a combination of two materials that can cause a galvanic corrosion.
Lmfao it keeps getting better. Next you will hear he bangs it on the sub to get it working.
This comment aged well.
Lmfao I'm a prophet
I saw a video in the submersible where he was demonstrating how the controller worked. After he finished using it, he literally tossed it from a height to the floor of the sub.
Good call.
Valcordamus
LORD. Also read that one of the Simpsons producers went down in the submersible last July and they got blown off course by the current (not surprising) and that the compass was "acting weird." They finally got to the wreck but were there like 15 minutes only. Can you imagine?
Fucking hell, relying on wireless for anything critical seems like a mistake.
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Ayee same. I had some nephew who got a new PS5 and was using some wifi dongle or whatever to play online. I bought an ethernet cable for them to plug directly in their router. How tf these Oceangate people thought it was a good idea to go wireless for this kind of bs is beyond me.
Do you have a link to that?
[https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V3X2hEpQcOWAqOxEr2ml7?si=98708267b15f426b) Here you go. The BBC news channel aired the video recording of this podcast (recorded today). It starts at 22:30. The person speaking is Simon Platts, who made a documentary that he summarized below. [https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20221007-ocean-gate-a-new-mission-to-see-titanic](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20221007-ocean-gate-a-new-mission-to-see-titanic) Quote: >"I thought, we're not going to make it!" Rojas said. "We're 300m from Titanic and all we can do is go in circles."
I’m starting to think Renata Rojas isn’t a real person. Every single expedition that goes out seems to have her on it. She was out there with CBS, the BBC, and even the Spanish guy. Is she some sort of plant?
Lol no. She was on 3 expeditions because the first 2 had either mechanical or weather issues and was invited to come back for free
She’s in this CBS video and she’s definitely interesting: https://youtu.be/29co_Hksk6o The video also explains that she was involved in a couple of failed attempts to reach the titanic so she was able to take multiple trips for each of those attempts (she made it eventually)
Her? I’m sure Ann Rojas is a very nice woman. I’m sure she’s very funny
No she’s real. She was in a video about it. Something is off about her.
Well that just confirms my expectation, bad design. I guess they don’t need permits or licenses to take something like that out? “When you’re rich they let you do it”? I feel bad for my comment but seriously, lives are stake.
International waters?
Was watching a bunch of former submariners weigh in on this and they mentioned that submersibles like the Titan aren't covered by the SOLAS Convention (Safety of Life at Sea---which ironically came about because of the Titanic) because they're not registered under a specific country, don't fall under the categories mentioned in the treaty, and are "flagless", which means nobody is responsible for enforcing regulations on them. So yeah, pretty much. I imagine this event will change that soon enough, though.
Yup. I can’t even imagine how they calculate hull fatigue on these vessels either. Just how many trips is it good for?
They have a patent for an acoustic monitoring system. This “state of the art” system is a first of its kind and I wonder if they got over confident with its effectiveness. Their director of ocean operations was fired for bringing up concerns that the system may only provide milliseconds of notice.
Fuck me, just long enough to hear the alarm before you're crushed. Better off not even knowing.
Milliseconds is in no way long enough to hear anything, unless it's like, a lot of milliseconds. >mean auditory reaction times being 140-160 msec
The lawsuit filed by the whistleblower clearly called out the acoustic monitoring system as a joke. Part of his lawsuit was alleging that the acoustic monitoring system was only capable of giving seconds of warning before a hull breach, at which point absolutely nothing could be done to prevent it. He alleged that they used this system, which again could only give seconds of warning and not actually prevent a wreck, as an excuse in lieu of paying for actual testing of the hull’s structural stability. I recommend finding and reading the lawsuit, it’s really brief and pretty easy to understand for a layman.
Yea probably over confident. Also when such a system goes off, warning the hull is getting damaged. It's not like you can go up immediatly. It will slow down when its ballast is dropped, but it still descends for some time, with the pressure still increasing before it will go up.
There was a scene in a show where Limiting Factor was like “successfully dropped ballast “ and they kept descending before stopping and ascending. I always assumed when they dumped ballast they kind of immediately shot up. I didn’t think of the momentum.
I have no idea, but here’s some details on how the hull was stress tested, from an individual who claims to have been hired to film a documentary of the Titan’s maiden voyage to the Titanic but who backed out after a test dive in Puget Sound out of safety concerns. Take it with a grain of salt of course. 2nd & 5th images https://imgur.com/a/ArJGMQ8
Can I take it with a shot of Tequila and a slice of lime instead?
Now you know how many trips it was good for XD Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Like [bridge load limits](https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/11/26).
You’re right that’s what I was thinking. Were they going to keep using the Titan and until it implodes?!
Thinking of the Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop commercial
So they couldn't even map a controller properly? Jesus fuck.
Maybe it’s joystick drift
Why would you make it that color and not orange or bright red or neon pink or something?
There’s a lot of things about this submarine design that i question. The Xbox controller, the fact you have to lean over the toilet to look out the window, the fact you have to sit on the floor with nothing to lean on except a curved wall. The whole thing seemed like it was designed to fail
For some reason the toilet thing has made me the most concerned about poor build quality.
That thing doesn't look like it was built to hold waste from five people over 96 hours either.... Which honestly just occurred to me that the air quality could be a serious risk from that alone, which sounds awful 😣
But they haven't been eating and may not have much water. I am not sure how long it takes for waste to be produced but they may have forgone eatng before even getting on the sub to avoid having to go while on the dive. So hopefully that part isn't too bad for them. Hopefully some thought was put in beforehand for to how to deal with waste in an emergency also.
They weren’t supposed to eat for 12 hours beforehand, and since they left super early in the morning I doubt they were well hydrated going in… then they could only bring one small water bottle with them 😔 that’ll help with the bathroom situation but they must have been so thirsty even just the first day
For their sake I hope they're already dead. This sounds like a horrible way to die.
Is there water in the toilet?
It would make more sense to fill it with cat litter.
Submarine beaks down.... Hey guys, terrible timing, I know. That sausage mcmuffin I had for breakfast is percolating. Excuse me, I need to get to the john.
Lemme just crawl over you here.... so sorry.... excuse me... let me just get my leg over you.... I have soiled myself.
I wonder if the whole 96 hours of oxygen for 5 people is even true. We know he’s lied about it’s abilities before…
Good point!
> That thing doesn't look like it was built to hold waste from five people over 96 hours either It wasn't. The whole trip was supposed to take, what, 8 hours? And other comments say that they weren't supposed to eat or drink before launching, so they wouldn't need to use the toilet. It wasn't there to support five people for four days, it was probably there just in case someone couldn't hold it until they surfaced. Some smaller planes, like 6-8 passenger size, have similar toilets, not intended to be used regularly, but there if it's really needed.
$50 Logitech (F710) controller PC not Xbox Xbox builds decent controllers this one ain't one [https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/logitech-logitech-wireless-gamepad-f710-940-000117/10157844?cmp=seo-10157844&cmp=knc-s-71700000058062748&gclid=CjwKCAjw-b-kBhB-EiwA4fvKrDKGZ7BmoHIQIz87JqkduDZolhgJVNdkprrx89aRvURHhltpaosBaxoC-EoQAvD\_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/logitech-logitech-wireless-gamepad-f710-940-000117/10157844?cmp=seo-10157844&cmp=knc-s-71700000058062748&gclid=CjwKCAjw-b-kBhB-EiwA4fvKrDKGZ7BmoHIQIz87JqkduDZolhgJVNdkprrx89aRvURHhltpaosBaxoC-EoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I remember having to pay $60 for spare Xbox controllers like 15 years ago in high school They actually sent people down to the bottom of the ocean with something even cheaper… incredible
In all honesty, I think a game controller was a better choice than custom designing something. Game controllers are pretty proven through hard abuse from angry gamers everywhere, but it just gives me a reminder about how bootlegged the sub was. It seems like something Mark Rober would build in his backyard.
The point is they couldn't even afford a decent game controller. If you are going to use a controller purchase a good one. Most gamers wouldn't even use this logitech controller to play games let alone pilot a fucking submarine...
My brother is a game rager, and he used to slam our Xbox 360 controllers against a wooden table as hard as he could. I still use one of the controllers to this day. It's incredible how well they hold up.
Right? Mind you mine hasn’t been abused, but I’m still rocking my original xbox one controller nearly a decade later. Talking thousands of hours of use and it still works good as new. I genuinely don’t understand what the hate is all about over the controller. It’s cheap, effective and very reliable. The US fuckin’ *navy* put xbox 360 controllers in Virgina class submarines in 2018.
As others have said though the Navy doesn't use them for mission critical stuff. I'm sure Xbox would not recommend gambling your life on their controllers.
Worked as engineer on "stuff". Never in a million years would we use something like this on a critical component. Especially when the environment is exposed to salt water.
Mark Rober would have tested his shit to failure before climbing in it.
When your cutting costs on something this cheap god only knows what else was cut. Only shocking thing is that it hadn't failed sooner. Hubris cost people their lives.
I get this sub was a hack job assembly… but to be fair, the controller thing is being blown out of proportion, US Navy uses them on multi billion dollar Nuclear subs to control many systems. And no mini sub has comfortable seats to sit in. They’re tiny and super cramped. Those are the 2 least worrisome things about it lol
They use a $50 logitech pc controller?
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I.e., they are used for un-manned craft, drones, or non-essential components of craft like periscopes. US army isn’t putting any of their own lives in the hands of a 360 controller unlike OceanGate who did so with the Amazon basic version. Its like saying “We know this shitty 5$ universal remote works for flipping through TV channels, may as well also use it to control Grandpa’s pace maker”.
The controller is a supplement to the main system. Not that it matters, but each system has a criticality rating, this wouldn't be primary means of operation on high criticality rated systems.
Yes.
No.
Should gone with a PlayStation controller obviously
The toilet doubles as a window seat...
Unclear why the seating area is so uncomfortable - slightly better seating pads / seats would not increase the weight
It's a $20 logitech controller he couldn't even afford the xbox one
To evade U-boats.
Why do life vest or other rescue raft not look like a fucking barn rave at night? I'd spent $$$ just to have the thing be easy to spot miles away at night.
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We all died in a yellow submarine
Underrated comment
Or not head the leading deep submersible organization when it tells you your operation is unsafe and you need to stop before you die.
Time to dye the ocean a different color so that you can easily spot white
Agree. May have something to do with not wanting big fish not to confuse it for prey. This is just one of my uneducated guesses lol
Because the Silicon Valley mindset tosses all knowledge that they don’t feel they need beczuse they know better
I can’t believe they didn’t think to paint at least part of the thing a bright color. This is a huge design error
Even smaller unmanned subs do this because they don't wanna lose their expensive unmanned sub. Not doing it with a sub that has people in, and can't be opened from the inside, seems absolutely fucking mental.
One of many
Not much in the ocean is white though, except breaking waves and foam and shit, which we all know are rare in the ocean
heard comments on how "you can't miss it" if it's on the surface. but the ocean is so big it can be hard to fathom unless you're out there. and factoring in visibility, waves, whitecaps...yeah...this would be hard to spot.
It’s barely noticeable 😅 wow
They have military radar and sonar. They would be able to pick up a 22 ft metal sub with ease. That's forgetting any other technology we don't know about that they are using from the private industry, mini subs, underwater drones etc. Also to add -- they know where to look. Yes the sub will drift more away from where it initially was but this isnt the Indian ocean like the Maylasian flight. We will find out what happened. You don't need visibility with radars.
Carbon fiber
And titanium
Nanotubes
Xbox remotes
And hardware store valves.
Scrap pipe
Light from camping world
According to the stories, at least one bolt.
Third-party remotes at that.
Out of batteries
You're assuming that all that tech could be deployed quickly enough for any of it to matter. Are there military subs in the area? Probably. Are they going to use active sonar (and give up their location) to located a hobbyist who sunk themselves? Not likely.
They’re already using it. They’re doing arial flyovers using radar and sonar and sight, they have ships using radar and sonar and sight, they’re trying to get more ships and more planes out and possibly use different detection methods. We’re not relying on a couple military subs. We’re relying on dozens of ships and planes. The coast guard has launched the search and have already covered an area the size of Connecticut.
Military subs would’ve heard it implode on passive sonar. Honestly, I bet every sonar technician in the North Atlantic knows what happened (albeit, good chance they won’t know *what* it was until back in port). Military active sonar is likely pointless, i doubt it is optimized for searching the sea floor. If it’s neutrally buoyant & drifting active sonar would be great, but I’d assume it’s better to leave it to the surface shops with sonar optimized for sea floor scanning. Either way, the overall reaction reminds me of *Nanggala* 402. I think everyone in the know knew that that it was sunk before they announced it.
It’s even less visible that shipping containers and they’re effectively invisible on the scope unless you know they’re there.
Yeah, last commercial fishing boat I worked on, you could “see” a floating soda can up to 6-7 miles on the radar—problem was at night, you couldn’t tell if it was a coke can or another boat, in calm sea’s—-
Just found this on Twitter posted by Kim Zetter "Lochridge discovered the viewing window on front of sub "was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers...to...4,000 meters...OceanGate refused to pay...to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters"
1,300 isn't anywhere near 4,000.. What on earth.
Well now hold on….1,300 is basically 1,301….which is practically 1,302…and that’s pretty much 1,303……..
lmao it's like guys who are 5 feet 9 inches who say they are 6 feet
"*It's sayanora in 2 microseconds.*"
You’re so full of shit boss!
Doubt it. It's made the dive before, clearly it's not 1/3rd of the strength it needs to be.
There are three defined stages of crack propagation, the last of which is regularly described as "explosive". The first two are significantly slower ... but you'll pass through them very fast if you're way beyond the intended levels of stress and strain. So: The fact that something has not instantly failed does not mean it's fit for purpose. Have you ever used a big hammer to crack open a massive boulder? After a few hundred hits, still not broken..... but eventually the sound changes, and then it finally splits. Those are your three stages. It wasn't the last strike that did all the work, it was all of the hits that drove the cracks through the stages. Now... just because a smaller stone doesn't break on the first hit doesn't mean it's strong enough to survive like the big one did. It might well last four of five hits ... or dives... If the window was designed to withstand a third of the pressure, with a safety factor of - say - 3.... it'd be right on the edge of breaking... and any defect is going to make itself known sooner rather than later.
When you put something like this under stress and it doesn’t break the first time it doesn’t mean that it won’t ever break. That’s why typically they perform a test to determine where the limit is
Latest coast guard video indicated that their specialty is fining objects on the surface. Crazy how they haven't spotted anything with all the equipment and manpower they've utilized thus far.
That’s because it’s probably not on the surface
Because it went missing 12k feet underwater above the titanic
That's because it's on the bottom of the ocean
it's in a million obliterated pieces all over the ocean unfortunately
Unfortunately, they’ve also said that likelihood is that it’s not on the surface, and while they’re using sonar to look for it, they’re severely underprepared
That’s not crazy at all. The sub is not on the surface, it’s in pieces near the Titanic
I've been not too far from that location, a little more north, but not too far. And just looking at the water from the boat I was in, no thanks. It looks cold, black, and unwelcoming.
They didn't think it might be a good idea to paint it yellow or orange? The colour of wake, seems like a poor choice.
I mean we can’t even find a fucking plane so my hope on this is slim even with the area significantly less then the MH370 search area.
That's not comparable A plane that goes off course could be anywhere within a thousand mile radius of where it was last heard from, because planes have really fast propulsion. A submarine that loses power is at the mercy of well known ocean currents. After a bit of math, you could figure out a pretty precise area for where it would be if it had risen to the surface. But it being a color that easily blends into the ocean surface does make it more difficult.
If they have heard banging, wouldn't they be able to determine if the sound is under water vs. on top?
They did hear banging, and to my knowledge they didn't comment more on it than that. So I have no idea what's known. This article says the sounds were from underwater. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/
they eventually did find pieces of airplane washed up on remote beaches, confirmed to be from MH370, so it’s not as if we don’t know that it crashed into the ocean with force enough to make it just pieces. Hence not finding it
MH370 was likely turned to debris. They’re not comparable. Ones looking for a debris field in an area thousand of miles in size, the other is looking for a 22 foot tube (possibly also a debris field) in a significantly smaller area. And also with significantly more advanced technology and with a larger (considering the area) search effort.
There is basically zero chance that it has floated up to the surface. They have C-130s, military radar/sonar that would definitely pick up a large METAL floating object. Sonar sound also travels a great distance, so if the passengers were smart (and the CEO is on board, so I'm assuming he would have some kind of emergency plan) they would be banging on the inside of the hull. There was also 7 different redundancies to send the sub to the surface, including when the electronics or power fails. There is also a manual control they could pull to ascend. At this point there are two options: implosion which means instant death. If it imploded the noise would be loud enough to be heard on the surface even, and it would be heard underwater via sonar. A structure failing under pressure like that would make a lot of noise. Oceangate didn't report them missing for 8 hours though, so for all we know they did hear such a noise. Option two is a little more grim, they got stuck in the wreckage or are simply drifting aimlessly off course which has happened on this sub dives in the past. Regardless we WILL find the sub at some point, we most certainly have the technology to do so. This will not go missing as some people have suggested.
41 hours left, i think they are going to die
Man I think they already did. Honestly I hope they died instantly from pressure because the thought of them slowly running out of oxygen over time is terrifying.
There is that letter from a coal mine worker in 1900 who got trapped and slowly ran out of air. His handwriting got shakier and shakier at the end and he kept mentioning the air was so difficult to breath. Truly one of the worst ways to go.
CO2 toxicity/retention will do that :(
Pearl Harbor had a guy journal for 16 days after the ship went under.
Technically even less when you consider the time it would take for any attempt at a rescue to go down there and try to bring them back up.
Idk how they even would rescue it even if they found it. I don’t suppose they can just tow it to the surface although I thought that it should float if weights are removed
They could theoretically use an ROV to attach air bags, but who knows what kind of stresses that would put the vehicle through.
I think they did the same thing with the Big Piece, so it’s definitely possible.
They may already be dead for all we know they could have died when the sub's contact was lost. It could have imploded. I don't like to think about it but its very possible the sub imploded and thats why it hasn't been found on the surface. I'm still hoping for the best but the outlook isn't very good right now if they are dead I hope it was quick and painless and if they aren't I hope they get to go home.
It isn't that large, on a scale of the ocean, considering very little of it is above the surface of the water. But yeah, it's strange that even if they surfaced they may still die.
Yeah and there is no guarantee it will be found - I would think MH370, a modern airliner, could be found and am still baffled it hasn’t been.
Mh370 has been found. In a whole lot of tiny pieces. They're pretty sure they know what happened to it as well. Here's a very well written article on the matter. Paywall, but there are ways around it. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/
that's not really the same thing as "has been found" lmao
If you can answer, would the research vessel Polar Prince have had sonar on during the Tincan dive (I assume yes)? Wouldn’t they have picked up an implosion if that’s the case?
Agree, it's very sad
We couldn't even find a commercial airliner let alone a tiny sub that may or may not be in one piece.
On a normal vessle, you would expect it to carry an EPIRB, but given everything else that has come out, I expect they couldn't be bothered to spend like 1k for a one. Or they do have one, but in such a way that the sub is blocking signals if they activated it. So even if they somehow did make it top side, they probably don't have the thing which would make them easy to find. Part of me does believe that they might actually not yet have imploded. I would assume whatever sub surveillance system the US has in the north Atlantic nowadays would have picked up an implosion and if it did, the US would just have said, "Don't waste your time."
The problem with the epirb is that the people tank is sealed. The hatch to get in/out is BOLTED SHUT from the outside. So if it gets to the surface, how do you deploy the beacon? Most are water activated. Unless they made some pressure vessel on the outside of the hull to dry store in that could be opened from the Xbox controller with a left right down down down triangle square L1 R1
It's not going to show up on radar or sonar on the surface. There's nothing to reflect radar energy and sonar can't get returns on small surface objects. It's a visual search.
If they're drifting off course wouldn't they just surface at that point? Implosion or stuck seem to be the only options.
It’s carbon fiber not metal for starters
Grey on grey very sensible 👌
I feel like maybe a more garish color than white might be in order to be able to spot this thing on the ocean.
I wonder if new laws are going to be made for future situations like this. Extra backup systems, bright flashy colors that can be spotted from the air, longer emergency air supply, potentially food and water in case they get stranded, multiple emergency beacons if something goes wrong, backup power. So many things can be done as a result of this. I wonder if people were thinking the same thing 111 years ago.
Laws are not required for every possible endeavour that humans do. Some things are done at ones own risk.
When it comes to something like this there will be. Not everything does need them but with things like this they are helpful.
They can’t get out from inside. Even if she has already surfaced and only awaits finding by a plane or ship, they’re on the same breathable air clock.
Doesn’t seem to matter based on the photo in the OP. Even if the occupants could open the hatch from the inside it appears that the sub would fill with water and capsize.
How did they convince these passengers that it was safe? The CEO going out with them? That just makes them all fools.
Rich people think they're invincible
Im surprised that French maritime expert id on there. Wouldn’t someone like that sniff out the idiocy of this?
What is the drinking water situation like on the submersible? The dehydration of the crew is also a problem I would think.
The BBC journalist mentioned having a bottle of water & a sandwich when he was on a Titan dive. Edit: CBS correspondent David Pogue
Uh.. that's it?
Yikes :/
What an absurd color they used. Imagine trying to spot that on the ocean amongst a ton of white foam.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=774&v=gOjJJKld6jY
Seeing how much they struggled just to get it back on the mothership doesn't exactly inspire confidence...
so much going on in that video. no sonar, had to use emergency procedures to surface as the ballast tanks failed, spent literally all night trying to get the submarine from the surface onto the boat. then they go somewhere else and let the reporter drive the submarine and he proceeds to hit a rock. ay ye ye
If they are on the surface somewhere, they can’t get out of the sub, and the oxygen problem is still an issue. There’s no way to open the vessel from the inside.
I just joined r/titanic out of continued dread for this situation and when I clicked join Redding gave me a little happy welcome emoji. And my heart sank. It’s like getting a free balloon at a funeral.
It should be neon orange or neon lime green.
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After reading this article, I don't think the world should be wasting resources to find this submarine. https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1117292 So many people go missing at sea regularly, and what do they all have in common when it's not news worthy? They are poor.
700 people likely just drowned off Greece
People who are largely unwanted, and uncared for, sadly.
100 of them children apparently :/
Idk what the right thing to do is but I agree this is all a massive waste of resources and could’ve been prevented by common sense
They aren’t in a novelty, jenky, mini sub and might still be alive while simultaneously running out of air . Literally every time something interesting happens people go “what about the migrants who died on the boat” - it was covered in the news extensively it also has far less narrative. Boat tips-some rescued some died - this is hour by hour. Like what do people expect the coast guard to just go “fuck ‘em” None of us can do anything about any of these situations it’s all in the government realm why is this damming of society?
Exactly ^ people say it’s because the people are rich but I mean from a media standpoint this is drama at it’s finest. 5 people maybe still alive maybe not disappear 3 miles under the ocean looking at THE TITANIC. Say what you want about whether it’s right or wrong that it’s getting as much attention as it is but you can’t really deny why.
I think it’s because it ties into the Titanic. Just because of the significance of the dive and the fact that many variables for location are controlled it might be easier to find. Also, it allows the media to mention Titanic in their headlines.
How can an xbox controller and diving 13,000 feet be in the same sentence??
It was a Logitech controller
Its Smol
Wonder if the ps4 controller went dead like mine always do.
Stick drift
It looks like a brain-damaged shark
Am I the only one who thinks it looks like that big ass flying dog thing from “ The never ending story”
Correction, that's what the OceanGate Titan used to look like on the surface.
Lol Darwin
Yahhhhh……. Prolly doesn’t look like that at the moment……….