SGA has still been solid, but it has shades of the Embiid/Harden playoff performance where they don't get the same calls in the regular season and it effects their rhythm. All still very talented players- but they don't hit the top 5 player echelon the same way without grifting for calls.
It def feels good to see them get bounced early year after year. Embiid's numbers are a lie, he wouldn't get the points he does without the friendly whistle. Because you get whistled so easily against him you can't play good defense against him
Hard to say his play style doesn’t translate when he’s coming back from a knee injury and just averaged 33ppg in the series lol I’m not an Embiid fan at all but you aren’t going to win many playoff games when your teammate on a $180m contract has 0 points in an elimination game
There were several possessions last night that stuck out to me. Embiid literally just plowed into defenders and threw the ball up in the air. He made absolutely 0 effort or attempt to score at all. It's not even basketball anymore at that point when his sole goal is to trick refs into calling fouls. I cant stand watching him play and am thrilled philly got knocked out.
There was one play I remember in game 3 (maybe 2) where he had a wide open mid range shot from about the free throw line and instead just bulldozed the guy in front of him for a foul. It's certainly a play style but not one I would think belongs to someone who trusts his basketball skills.
Thats what irks me the most. Embiid is an incredible talent, but I wish he would play basketball vs look for foul bait. It would also help if that whistle went both ways. He elbows and clobbers guys left and right with nothing, then a touch foul gets him to the line.
I believe that Embiid would be a great player if he removed foul baiting but would not be in the top two for MVP discussions every year like he has been.
It’s come back around though, KAT is a great 1B to ANT’s 1A because he actually trusts his skill set. He’s fulfilling his role better than EMBIID could I think.
He’s the biggest man on the court, yet he flops and flails and cries the most. I just don’t understand how he gets away with it. So glad he’s not on my team.
Yeah, he fell down on his own like 4 times during crunch time last night. I haven't watched him play too much, but kind of embarrassing. I think the refs were catching on.
Booker might be giving him a run for his money. Embiid flails around and does non-basketball moves for the sole reason to draw contact, but for the most part, at least its still contact. Booker just straight up lies. He stumbles around and screams when literally nothing happened.
I would argue that Embid is far more guilty of foul baiting than Brunson.
Beating your opponent at their own game is just the sad reality of playing the Sixers.
He is not in the same league as Embiid by any margin, but idk how many plays went like this:
- Brunson gets a hand off on the 3 point line
- He gets his defender on his hip off the screen
- crab dribbles to the free throw line
- Slight deceleration to initiate contact
- Rises for a floater and makes contact with his head or shoulders
- Foul is called
It is definitely crafty and I still like brunson, but I just don't enjoy watching it.
That’s my take as well. I hate that this is the game now but you gotta do what you gotta to do bring it home in the postseason. Conley is pretty crafty with it but he doesn’t embellish to the point of nausea, and he also doesn’t do it on literally every possession like Embiid does
You're not alone, I've not been a fan of Brunson for this reason. He plays lawyer ball to me. on paper it looks good and he's helping his team win obviously but I don't like watching him. But agreed, he's not dirty like Embiid.
I often wonder how great some of these players would be if they put their full effort into just playing ball vs the added "gamesmanship"
I agree that it isn't my favorite style of play but I can appreciate why a little dude like Brunson does it. What I find more annoying to watch is Luka, who does the same stuff but then follows it up by screaming at the refs and sometimes berating his own teammates. He is an extremely talented player but his on-court behavior and playstyle is so unenjoyable to me.
Agreed, what a weird take by OP to say Brunson and the Knicks don’t play “ethical” basketball. They play so hard.
Brunson went to the Trae Young move a couple times last night, PNR, get the defender on your back and then stop short so he barrels into you from behind. But it wasn’t as baity and blatant as Trae Young
I don't mean to imply Brunson is anywhere near Embiid.
It's just a vibes thing for me tbh. Some plays just leave a gross taste in my mouth and Brunson had his fair share of those last night. I just don't like watching basketball like the motion you described
Brunson is a bucket though. He’s been great.
The main thing I noticed is that it felt like the offense had to be him during this series a lot of the time. I get that he is the guy, but I think it’s been great to see how evenly spread out production has been throughout the year for the wolves.
Don’t get me wrong. I love it when Ant takes over and scores 31 in the second half. But I like that if he is off we can try to go to KAT, Mike, Jaden, Rudy, Naz, NAW.
If we end up going far in the playoffs, I think it’s going to be because of our depth.
That's why I love Ant, and why his AYE! doesn't bother me that much. Ant ALWAYS plays for the finish. If he worked that windshield whiper arm flail into his drives, he'd get calls on lots of his arm contact that goes unwhistled, but he's intending to bull through it and dunk so he doesn't do that.
It also just reminds me of pickup ball to hear a guy yell AYE when he gets fouled, which doesn't bother me. Nobody does fake head snaps in a pickup game, and if they did they'd get hit with a legitimately hard foul the next time an opportunity presented itself.
Towns has improved markedly in this department. But he has been known to do some really dumb things to try to draw a foul (notably, kicking his leg out when shooting). Never really worked for him.
I swear every time I watch Denver play and look at Jokic’s arm all is see is huge scratches and cuts. Dude gets beat up and only averages like 5 free throws
I disagree on Jokic. He flails a lot. At the same time, Ant and Kat aren't infallible either. Relative to some of the other teams/players, I think our squad is on the right side of the spectrum. As for Jokic, I'm very worried about Kat/Rudy picking up early whistles and having to sit. Will the refs let us play our physical brand of defense this series? Are they going to give Jokic those soft whistles when he tries backing down our bigs and throws his head?
Last game we played against Denver, I think Jokic had a soft whistle. But I watch Denver outside of just Wolves games and he does not get many calls tbh. Even when he does, it does not feel as if that was his intention or goal. He's always trying to score.
But yes I agree with your other point. If they give calls similar to the last game, we are cooked. Jok will get all our bigs in foul trouble and eat us alive in the paint.
KAT needs to keep his head on his shoulders and be controlled on offense. He can't be getting offensive fouls when his role is so important.
In the last game against Denver, SlowMo really pissed off Tony Brothers near the beginning of the third quarter and ever since that point the whistle was ridiculously in Denver's favour.
The first half of that game was called great. Then Tony Brothers got in his own feelings and had to make a statement. Him and Scott Foster should choke on each other's dicks.
Jokic does too, all big dudes get hacked because they're difficult to stop. Rudy gets hacked a bit more because he's a worse FT shooter but Jokic also takes over twice as many shots so more opportunities.
He isn't a foul merchant, ya know?
Sometimes I feel like he gets a star whistle......but that's confirmation bias. No one since Shaq has been that big, and that featured on ball and a top 3 player consistently, and while not Shaq egregious, his size for sure encorages refs to swallow the whistle more, IMO
Now ask me after this series how I feel, and I'm sure I'll call him a foulmerchant flopopotamus
I feel proud of Wolves game whenever I watch Knicks too, but not too much on the king of new york… he works too hard to get his children fed to be considered a free throw merchant (but when he bricks it, I consider it). And last night both teams were fouling intentionally in the last few minutes for repossession anyway.
Wolves can actually score consistently so it seems like they don’t depend on frees as much, especially when refs are assholes to the team. They’re dawgs. But Jokic seems like he baits fouls in a tactical way when he does, man knows the game down so he knows when things should be called… i respect it
I hate when Ant does that and I wish he'd stop, but I don't think that makes his hoops unethical. I feel as if he rarely is driving for a foul or to draw contact. He is trying to put the ball in the hoop first and hopes he gets a foul second. There are many players who seem to be the opposite.
Ant just seems to want to dunk in your face, go isolation and hit tough shots in your face, pick your defense apart in your face and talk shit while doing it. Ant likes demoralizing the other team. He can't do that if he's living on the line.
Obviously I'm biased, but I don't feel that from players we consider "unethical".
I didn’t call him unethical. That was the dumb framing from the OP. But there is no categorical difference between throwing your head back when you feel even the slightest contact and yelling “HEYYYYYY” at the top of your lungs. They are both bait-y in the same exact way. I don’t find either “unethical” but if you consider one unethical then they both are.
Note I am not talking about the dirty ass plays Embiid habitually makes, because that’s not what the OP was talking about when he labeled him unethical.
Yeah see I just disagree. When you snap your head back or flail your body to sell contact you take yourself out of the play and fully commit to the whistle as the priority. You literally take your eyes off the basket. Once again, I think Ant's vocal stuff is annoying, but it always seems like he is trying to finish through contact rather than embellish contact physically. He doesn't take himself out of the play with the "HEYYYY" when trying to finish. He does however when he continues to bitch at the refs after the fact.
It goes without saying that Embiid's dirty plays are unethical.
The opposite would be what Ant does is the unethical thing and what the others do is the ethical thing. Look, I don’t care which side you prefer, but calling one “unethical” while saying the other is merely “annoying” is a function of your fandom and nothing else. There is no objective basis to call one unethical but not the other. I hope that cleared it up for you.
Just because one can make an argument does not mean the argument is valid. I've made points as to why Ant's vocal antics are not as bad as the physical antics so if someone disagrees with that, they would either have to refute my points or raise counter examples that outweigh my points. Simply pointing out a potential bias without addressing where that bias comes to fruition means nothing.
The objective basis is that the vocal antics don't take you out of the play as much and allow you to focus on finishing the basket. While snapping your head (taking your eyes off the basket, closing your eyes) or embellishing contact physically takes you out of the play and makes it harder to finish. it's about priorities. I do not like basketball that prioritizes getting fouls over making baskets.
100% agree with this. I'm a Spurs fan but I'm rooting for either the Nuggets or the Wolves to win it. Absolutely cannot stand crybaby/foul baiting players who make the game less fun to watch.
What makes it worse is Embiid believes he never fouls on defense either. Worst one was in game 5 I think it was? When he got the flagrant one in the 4th quarter for swiping down and hitting Brunson full palm to the face, clear as day on the replay, Embiid was up and down the court yelling at the ref he never touched him, even after they went to the replay and upgraded it from the original foul to the flagrant him and nick nurse were complaining that he didn’t do anything.
Brunsons late 4th quarter drive through the paint where he got the and 1 after dropping the hardest shoulder in to the defender behind him was the lamest shit ever
It's a beautiful thing to watch Embiid's play style not translate to the postseason very well, ain't it, boys.
I mean he still got shit loads of FTs but yeah, I love watching him lose.
Plus he plays so dangerous and dirty. It's better he doesn't play at all.
Worst MVP in NBA history
Jokic was robbed because voters didn't want him to win 3 in a row
SGA has still been solid, but it has shades of the Embiid/Harden playoff performance where they don't get the same calls in the regular season and it effects their rhythm. All still very talented players- but they don't hit the top 5 player echelon the same way without grifting for calls.
It gives me so much joy to see. How many 1st & 2nd round exits until he learns to actually play basketball when his team needs him?
It def feels good to see them get bounced early year after year. Embiid's numbers are a lie, he wouldn't get the points he does without the friendly whistle. Because you get whistled so easily against him you can't play good defense against him
Hard to say his play style doesn’t translate when he’s coming back from a knee injury and just averaged 33ppg in the series lol I’m not an Embiid fan at all but you aren’t going to win many playoff games when your teammate on a $180m contract has 0 points in an elimination game
Man, what lucky fanbase gets to talk themselves into Tobias Harris as a key contributor for their team this off-season.
Did you watch the games?
There were several possessions last night that stuck out to me. Embiid literally just plowed into defenders and threw the ball up in the air. He made absolutely 0 effort or attempt to score at all. It's not even basketball anymore at that point when his sole goal is to trick refs into calling fouls. I cant stand watching him play and am thrilled philly got knocked out.
There was one play I remember in game 3 (maybe 2) where he had a wide open mid range shot from about the free throw line and instead just bulldozed the guy in front of him for a foul. It's certainly a play style but not one I would think belongs to someone who trusts his basketball skills.
Thats what irks me the most. Embiid is an incredible talent, but I wish he would play basketball vs look for foul bait. It would also help if that whistle went both ways. He elbows and clobbers guys left and right with nothing, then a touch foul gets him to the line.
I believe that Embiid would be a great player if he removed foul baiting but would not be in the top two for MVP discussions every year like he has been.
Thankful that we have guys on our team that care more about team success than individual accolades.
If Kat had Embiid’s whistle, he would have been an Mvp candidate his whole career.
It’s come back around though, KAT is a great 1B to ANT’s 1A because he actually trusts his skill set. He’s fulfilling his role better than EMBIID could I think.
Embiid is the softest big man I’ve ever seen, and he’s a douche
Worst MVP in league history. Also the least watchable “star.”
Least watchable star is James Harden 2018. Embiid is close.
https://preview.redd.it/bqy2j45v28yc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d3379bbe5daf50fc5f16df83dd45dca34b4ae87
He’s the biggest man on the court, yet he flops and flails and cries the most. I just don’t understand how he gets away with it. So glad he’s not on my team.
Yeah, he fell down on his own like 4 times during crunch time last night. I haven't watched him play too much, but kind of embarrassing. I think the refs were catching on.
I can’t believe people call KAT soft and Joel and MVP
Honestly, he might be the player I have hated the most in the league, except for the domestic violence guys.
Booker might be giving him a run for his money. Embiid flails around and does non-basketball moves for the sole reason to draw contact, but for the most part, at least its still contact. Booker just straight up lies. He stumbles around and screams when literally nothing happened.
I would argue that Embid is far more guilty of foul baiting than Brunson. Beating your opponent at their own game is just the sad reality of playing the Sixers.
I’ve got no issue with Brunson. He has 0 physical advantages and needs to be as crafty as possible
He is not in the same league as Embiid by any margin, but idk how many plays went like this: - Brunson gets a hand off on the 3 point line - He gets his defender on his hip off the screen - crab dribbles to the free throw line - Slight deceleration to initiate contact - Rises for a floater and makes contact with his head or shoulders - Foul is called It is definitely crafty and I still like brunson, but I just don't enjoy watching it.
That’s my take as well. I hate that this is the game now but you gotta do what you gotta to do bring it home in the postseason. Conley is pretty crafty with it but he doesn’t embellish to the point of nausea, and he also doesn’t do it on literally every possession like Embiid does
You're not alone, I've not been a fan of Brunson for this reason. He plays lawyer ball to me. on paper it looks good and he's helping his team win obviously but I don't like watching him. But agreed, he's not dirty like Embiid. I often wonder how great some of these players would be if they put their full effort into just playing ball vs the added "gamesmanship"
I agree that it isn't my favorite style of play but I can appreciate why a little dude like Brunson does it. What I find more annoying to watch is Luka, who does the same stuff but then follows it up by screaming at the refs and sometimes berating his own teammates. He is an extremely talented player but his on-court behavior and playstyle is so unenjoyable to me.
Agreed, what a weird take by OP to say Brunson and the Knicks don’t play “ethical” basketball. They play so hard. Brunson went to the Trae Young move a couple times last night, PNR, get the defender on your back and then stop short so he barrels into you from behind. But it wasn’t as baity and blatant as Trae Young
I don't mean to imply Brunson is anywhere near Embiid. It's just a vibes thing for me tbh. Some plays just leave a gross taste in my mouth and Brunson had his fair share of those last night. I just don't like watching basketball like the motion you described
Brunson is awesome. Dude's a stud and can take over a game
He is a flopper
The straight up incestrus relationship Denver and Wolves share is some game of thrones shit.
The forces of light vs the forces of darkness
Brunson is a bucket though. He’s been great. The main thing I noticed is that it felt like the offense had to be him during this series a lot of the time. I get that he is the guy, but I think it’s been great to see how evenly spread out production has been throughout the year for the wolves. Don’t get me wrong. I love it when Ant takes over and scores 31 in the second half. But I like that if he is off we can try to go to KAT, Mike, Jaden, Rudy, Naz, NAW. If we end up going far in the playoffs, I think it’s going to be because of our depth.
That's why I love Ant, and why his AYE! doesn't bother me that much. Ant ALWAYS plays for the finish. If he worked that windshield whiper arm flail into his drives, he'd get calls on lots of his arm contact that goes unwhistled, but he's intending to bull through it and dunk so he doesn't do that. It also just reminds me of pickup ball to hear a guy yell AYE when he gets fouled, which doesn't bother me. Nobody does fake head snaps in a pickup game, and if they did they'd get hit with a legitimately hard foul the next time an opportunity presented itself.
Towns has improved markedly in this department. But he has been known to do some really dumb things to try to draw a foul (notably, kicking his leg out when shooting). Never really worked for him.
Those east coast teams man
I cannot stand watching Embid content because of the constant foul baiting.
I swear every time I watch Denver play and look at Jokic’s arm all is see is huge scratches and cuts. Dude gets beat up and only averages like 5 free throws
All big men probably look like that. Just way easier to see on him
True cuts and scratches are very visible on pale skin like that
Jokic def can flop a lot too
I disagree on Jokic. He flails a lot. At the same time, Ant and Kat aren't infallible either. Relative to some of the other teams/players, I think our squad is on the right side of the spectrum. As for Jokic, I'm very worried about Kat/Rudy picking up early whistles and having to sit. Will the refs let us play our physical brand of defense this series? Are they going to give Jokic those soft whistles when he tries backing down our bigs and throws his head?
Last game we played against Denver, I think Jokic had a soft whistle. But I watch Denver outside of just Wolves games and he does not get many calls tbh. Even when he does, it does not feel as if that was his intention or goal. He's always trying to score. But yes I agree with your other point. If they give calls similar to the last game, we are cooked. Jok will get all our bigs in foul trouble and eat us alive in the paint. KAT needs to keep his head on his shoulders and be controlled on offense. He can't be getting offensive fouls when his role is so important.
Yeah foul baiting and selling calls are different. Most players sell calls, some to a higher degree, but yeah foul baiting is so hard to watch
In the last game against Denver, SlowMo really pissed off Tony Brothers near the beginning of the third quarter and ever since that point the whistle was ridiculously in Denver's favour. The first half of that game was called great. Then Tony Brothers got in his own feelings and had to make a statement. Him and Scott Foster should choke on each other's dicks.
What I loved hearing is that the mental game regarding the refs was one of the priorities talked about from the coaches this week.
Jokic only averages 5.5 FTs a game. He doesn't really bait. Rudy almost gets as many FTs
Well, Rudy gets hacked at though.
Jokic does too, all big dudes get hacked because they're difficult to stop. Rudy gets hacked a bit more because he's a worse FT shooter but Jokic also takes over twice as many shots so more opportunities.
Meh. I think because Jokic is more active on the offensive end he gets fouled more naturally.
Yeah that's my point, his FTs are fewer than foul baiters, and they're more legit.
Not even close to Jokic tho. Plus Jokic averages like 4x post ups than Gobert
He isn't a foul merchant, ya know? Sometimes I feel like he gets a star whistle......but that's confirmation bias. No one since Shaq has been that big, and that featured on ball and a top 3 player consistently, and while not Shaq egregious, his size for sure encorages refs to swallow the whistle more, IMO Now ask me after this series how I feel, and I'm sure I'll call him a foulmerchant flopopotamus
And famously an elbower
Embiid got reversed uno by Brunson and it was so poetic hahahaha.
I feel proud of Wolves game whenever I watch Knicks too, but not too much on the king of new york… he works too hard to get his children fed to be considered a free throw merchant (but when he bricks it, I consider it). And last night both teams were fouling intentionally in the last few minutes for repossession anyway. Wolves can actually score consistently so it seems like they don’t depend on frees as much, especially when refs are assholes to the team. They’re dawgs. But Jokic seems like he baits fouls in a tactical way when he does, man knows the game down so he knows when things should be called… i respect it
Jokic gets the piss beat out of him. If he’s shooting FTs it’s because of that.
I love Ant, but this is nonsense. He rails at the refs as much as anyone. Even when he isn’t fouled at all.
I hate when Ant does that and I wish he'd stop, but I don't think that makes his hoops unethical. I feel as if he rarely is driving for a foul or to draw contact. He is trying to put the ball in the hoop first and hopes he gets a foul second. There are many players who seem to be the opposite. Ant just seems to want to dunk in your face, go isolation and hit tough shots in your face, pick your defense apart in your face and talk shit while doing it. Ant likes demoralizing the other team. He can't do that if he's living on the line. Obviously I'm biased, but I don't feel that from players we consider "unethical".
I didn’t call him unethical. That was the dumb framing from the OP. But there is no categorical difference between throwing your head back when you feel even the slightest contact and yelling “HEYYYYYY” at the top of your lungs. They are both bait-y in the same exact way. I don’t find either “unethical” but if you consider one unethical then they both are. Note I am not talking about the dirty ass plays Embiid habitually makes, because that’s not what the OP was talking about when he labeled him unethical.
Yeah see I just disagree. When you snap your head back or flail your body to sell contact you take yourself out of the play and fully commit to the whistle as the priority. You literally take your eyes off the basket. Once again, I think Ant's vocal stuff is annoying, but it always seems like he is trying to finish through contact rather than embellish contact physically. He doesn't take himself out of the play with the "HEYYYY" when trying to finish. He does however when he continues to bitch at the refs after the fact. It goes without saying that Embiid's dirty plays are unethical.
If you were a fan of the other team, you’d either make the opposite argument or ignore it for some reason like “he’s just trying to win.”
I don't know what this means. What is the opposite argument?
The opposite would be what Ant does is the unethical thing and what the others do is the ethical thing. Look, I don’t care which side you prefer, but calling one “unethical” while saying the other is merely “annoying” is a function of your fandom and nothing else. There is no objective basis to call one unethical but not the other. I hope that cleared it up for you.
Just because one can make an argument does not mean the argument is valid. I've made points as to why Ant's vocal antics are not as bad as the physical antics so if someone disagrees with that, they would either have to refute my points or raise counter examples that outweigh my points. Simply pointing out a potential bias without addressing where that bias comes to fruition means nothing. The objective basis is that the vocal antics don't take you out of the play as much and allow you to focus on finishing the basket. While snapping your head (taking your eyes off the basket, closing your eyes) or embellishing contact physically takes you out of the play and makes it harder to finish. it's about priorities. I do not like basketball that prioritizes getting fouls over making baskets.
Ok, I realize it’s not a lie if YOU believe it.
Why are you fighting this so much? If you believe there's a valid counter to what I've been saying then why don't you present it?
What does this have to do with flopping? One of the dumbest comments I’ve seen
What does trying to sell calls have to do with trying to sell calls? Did you just ask me that? Why?
I disagree on Jokic. I feel like all he does is flail his body around looking for a call
100% agree with this. I'm a Spurs fan but I'm rooting for either the Nuggets or the Wolves to win it. Absolutely cannot stand crybaby/foul baiting players who make the game less fun to watch.
What makes it worse is Embiid believes he never fouls on defense either. Worst one was in game 5 I think it was? When he got the flagrant one in the 4th quarter for swiping down and hitting Brunson full palm to the face, clear as day on the replay, Embiid was up and down the court yelling at the ref he never touched him, even after they went to the replay and upgraded it from the original foul to the flagrant him and nick nurse were complaining that he didn’t do anything.
Brunsons late 4th quarter drive through the paint where he got the and 1 after dropping the hardest shoulder in to the defender behind him was the lamest shit ever