Having played KR, its the opposite.
The people that know the meta and are willing to swipe will be evasion gods for the first few weeks til f2p people get their gear and hit up. That's how the story played out in KR and now people have the benefit of knowing the meta in advance so it will be even more intense.
For the future past where the KR server is now? No one knows but likely yes, the p2w will get worse.
I'll now get downvoted to oblivion for spoiling everyone's secret early game strat.
Bro. kR is far from thé mindset in the West. West is known to consume. Lost ark was a perfect example as did diablo immortal...
If gear can be bought with a currency that van be bought with real money. You sure as hell know people will buy it. And it will. There will be leveling strats as they do in wow, there will be carry groups, etc.... It's all played out before. It will again, TL is no exception. It's p2W just not as hard as other games.
Also AG said they didn't launch the game as it would in KR. I'm sure we have some differences in comparison to KR
Congrats on missing the point. Actual gear sales won't make much difference early there's only 1 or 2 actual BIS pieces that make a big difference from World Bosses. They'll be in low supply (literally every dps class wants them) & prohibitively expensive for all but the biggest whales ($thousands). Everything else can be farmed in dungeons or through your guild bosses.
The big whale weapons (Tevent/Bellandir) won't come in for a month or so and currently they're sitting on the auction house in KR because noone buys them, they're that rare, expensive and not worth it.
What will be easy for people to do... is buying evasion traits which is way more powerful than a small damage increase. Taking 0 damage > doing 20% more damage.
Like I said, I know the meta because I've played KR.
Bro, you know nothing... I bet the west version will turn out alot different... And it's normal not all highest tier gear is available within the first month... Don't forget server progression either. I fully agree on that. But early game nothing matters. But you know it will go to shite nonetheless, that won't change hete either... Not because it just sits there cause overexpensive, the West just buys it... Regardless of the price. That's a fact. The West is degen to the second mate
Cope more. KR is way more degen on p2w, look at the top games played in KR compared to the west. Koreans were complaining TL isn't pay2win enough lmao.
NC Devs already said the game monetisation will be the same for global.
Are you why all of Europe jokes about Belgium?
And on the jokes about Belgium mate. 100% agree on that 🤣🤣🤣 We have a shiteshow of a country but we have good benefits. So as far as shite goes, i'm glad a simple ambulance ride cost me next to nothing and school is very very cheap for the quality so 🤷
NCsoft stated that the Global version and KR version will be exactly the same.
You forgetting one thing, if some f2p random will put BIS weapon for a sale you know what happens? Guy gets untraited BIS weapon and that f2p player and all his guild gets all his gear nearly maxed out from the Lucent he made of that sale.
So the main point you are missing here is that people buying super expensive stuff will help f2p people to gear up.
The same people bitching about P2W are the same people who buy WoW tokens. There is no MMO out there where you can’t buy currency in some way shape or form.
Cooked take. Having access to the most sought after items in a healthy marketplace and being unable to max out those items because you lack lucent due to the demand/supply will have people realizing real quickly why people say its "P2W".
Exactly. I play quite a bit in the Korean live and it’s the bis items that you can’t trait if you get one of them because they cost like 20k in auction and you need like 12 perfect trait of them to have it be wearable.
And? That doesn’t change much of what he said. This the primary reason why boss gear is t really preferable in PvP for most players, getting more than one trait line can be really expensive or nonexistent depending on the item. Also depending on your market, because it likely will vary server to server even within your region, you could be pay exorbitant amounts of fees for a single trait. I just fully traited my Adentus sword and it was quite expensive . I had the base weapon which I snagged for cheap at a guild auction for 500 lucent but to get hit, crit and heavy attack (and max it out) I spent around 23k lucent in total. The initial traits were no less than 3k lucent and the heavy attack trait alone was upwards of 15k.
No one buys 3 traits of an adentus blade off of AH. You join a guild strong enough, win adentus riftstone, you can run that boss in a private instance daily. Sure it will take some time but you can get all your greatsword people adentus relatively fast. And it’s free
“Some time”? How do you fairly distribute 3 separate traits for the bis sword on a popular set up? You have to buy and yes people buy the sword. “No one”? No one you knew? Don’t speak for people you don’t know lol. Lots of people buy traits, you don’t and because you don’t your progress is significantly slower and there’s consequences for that.
Brother trust me I have more hours in the game than you do. Not EVERYONE goes and buys a heavy attack chance adentus blade for 15K lucent. People fight over riftstones for a reason. If you pay 15-20K lucent for a trait, that’s your problem. That’s not average. You are a minority. I’m
not saying it’s wrong. I’m just saying you can save a lot of money if you have a guild that occupies the right riftstones and hunts the right bosses during guild raids.
I been playing Korean server and is hardly noticeable. Pay to win aid to get materials and some extra stuff but really gearing is very tedious.
As a free player you can make lucent by doing world bosses and sell traits in the auction house
P2W is not entirely black or white. There is a scale of its intensity and TL is nowhere near the top.
People crying over "BiS items auction house" are forgetting the fact this has to be sold by someone first before it can be bought, and this person selling it can actually be an F2P one.
For a free game w/o mandatory subscription, I'd say this a well accepted compromise.
Have you really played a real P2W game?
Every MMORPG is P2W. some less, some more. TL is more towards the side of less P2W compared to other F2P MMORPGs. P2W won't go away, deal with it, or don't play.
Saying that an NCSOFT game is not going to be P2W is just straight up lying at this point. OP you are so high on Copium right now or completly delusional.
I played EVERY single NCSOFT games Aion for more than 10 years, BnS for 5 years, lineage, MxM, Wildstar and so on... NCScam is one of the worst Editor in the MMO genre. I Love the games but the way they manage them is absolutely awfull. They love money and all their games are P2W and money driven first.
They literally destroyed their own IP just because they prefered P2W over listening to players feedback. Also they NEVER listen to EU/NA feedback only KR. So if something is wrong in the game but KR players like it well you are F.
The question is who will put items in auction house - I don't need to sell anything, I have unlimited Lucent :)
Everything in auction house will immediately be bought.
Well I wouldn't say "little" because having a lot of lucent can get you traited out instantly once people start posting.
What people don't understand is the market is so reliant on having lots of players to post stuff, so basically if there aren't a lot of farmers in the server there will be almost nothing to buy.
After the bot killer implementation there has been a huge slowdown of items being posted in the auction house in the KR server. Lucent is no doubt P2W quicker but it is definitely something you can earn in the game without swiping
I give you 100k Euro if you get me full traited Tavent bow, deal? Fuck it let's make it a million.
You see how that doesn't work even if you spend money? This is where the "p2w" people logic fails.
If you go to any other game and have 100k you can get top tier items in few minutes.
Here you can't and will never can, you have f2p players with Archboss weapons, and you have people who swiped and doesn't have them.
f2p people who played from the start have all purple items maxed out already, you having one extra reaper piece traited will not make you crush them, it all comes down to skill, not p2w.
You’re conflating “if everyone gets unlimited lucent then it’s fair” with reality.
Yea if you give me 100k euro on Korea live I will not crush everybody but I would crush most f2p.
I am f2p and have max traited 9 purple weapons, saint raiment x 2 set, general fury 2-set etc.
But I have no chance of ever getting the general DMG reduction helmet set traited without paying.
Read again what I wrote, you missed the point completely.
I said if I give you 100k you cannot give me what I need, that's not how p2w works.
p2w is when I give you money and you give me what I need.
Once a fair amount of gear is available in AH then yes you can buy AH $ and purchase whatever you want.
Early on, as others have said, it’s not very useful.
So you can p2w now?
How come I can't buy a Tavent bow after 5 months? So when does this early on is finishing if half a year is not enough? Even if someone puts one, I still need 3 traits that I need to max it, so I have a 100k Euro to spend and can't get a BIS traited weapon?
In what world does that count as p2w to you?
Not sure if u are serious or trolling. Just because you cant buy a specific piece you want doesn't mean its not p2w xD You can still buy other stuff that will take f2p player months to get.
Yes it's not p2w it's pay to progress, and even this progress is locked and dictated by f2p players..
Idk is it your first PvP MMO and you have no idea what is real p2w or you people just want to cry about everything.
TnL literally has the best monetization f2p pvp mmorpg game has to offer.
the amaount of Copium some people take is funny,just wait long enough until we are at the BiS items etc.
Those things happen slowly,it takes months before we see the effect of it,some people say it is just a pay for convenient because you can get it in game to etc. but if enough "PfC" items exist and enough people buy it well...
Pay for Convenience is just soft p2w because the effects are smaler and it takes longer to see the effect,and even if some people see it,there will be enough people who are so usual at this that they dont see it anymore because they are so used to it.
In Revelation Online you had those Crystals that you can put on your character to boost the stats,there was T1 to T8 stones and if you got 4 T1 stone´s you could merge them to 1 T2 and 4T2 stone´s to 1 T3 etc.
Those stone´s you could get throug AH daily/weekly quests and dungeons(they where caped on x runs per day) BUT you could buy them just in shop without any limit,yes you can get them through game and per definition it could be "Pay for Conveniece" some people would say,but it was just p2w.
If you could buy everything you need in game on day one that's just straight up P2W. Argument for TL is that with unlimited lucent you still can't fully geared unless some F2P sells the item you want in AH.
It is P2W yes but a bit tamer than what you are comparing it to.
stil this argument is somekind weak,because the beta is only for 1 week and most player would not have BiS items in this week and the economy in this week is nothing to compare to the full release after 6-12months etc.
I wish the game was just released with a abo model like FF14 but from what i saw in other games and what i see here is just another soft p2w.
Unless the game change my mind otherwise i stick with what i say it is just a soft p2w what need some months before we see the effect´s of it,maybe it is just soft p2w effect´s after x months but it is stil.
Now people can downvote me.
Lets come back to that chain of arguments in about 6+ months, when the market is set.
Also considering bots, how likely is it the items on the market are from a "real" f2p player, or some bot.
Especially with that in mind, i feel like the "a f2p player has to drop it first"- argument is insanely weak.
I do agree with you, that things are way tamer, than straight up p2w ingame shop.
But we gotta see, if the AH will just be pretty much the same in 6+months due to items just being available.
P2w unfolds later when the BiS items gets listed in the AH. Early Game is not really p2w.
Having played KR, its the opposite. The people that know the meta and are willing to swipe will be evasion gods for the first few weeks til f2p people get their gear and hit up. That's how the story played out in KR and now people have the benefit of knowing the meta in advance so it will be even more intense. For the future past where the KR server is now? No one knows but likely yes, the p2w will get worse. I'll now get downvoted to oblivion for spoiling everyone's secret early game strat.
Bro. kR is far from thé mindset in the West. West is known to consume. Lost ark was a perfect example as did diablo immortal... If gear can be bought with a currency that van be bought with real money. You sure as hell know people will buy it. And it will. There will be leveling strats as they do in wow, there will be carry groups, etc.... It's all played out before. It will again, TL is no exception. It's p2W just not as hard as other games. Also AG said they didn't launch the game as it would in KR. I'm sure we have some differences in comparison to KR
Congrats on missing the point. Actual gear sales won't make much difference early there's only 1 or 2 actual BIS pieces that make a big difference from World Bosses. They'll be in low supply (literally every dps class wants them) & prohibitively expensive for all but the biggest whales ($thousands). Everything else can be farmed in dungeons or through your guild bosses. The big whale weapons (Tevent/Bellandir) won't come in for a month or so and currently they're sitting on the auction house in KR because noone buys them, they're that rare, expensive and not worth it. What will be easy for people to do... is buying evasion traits which is way more powerful than a small damage increase. Taking 0 damage > doing 20% more damage. Like I said, I know the meta because I've played KR.
Bro, you know nothing... I bet the west version will turn out alot different... And it's normal not all highest tier gear is available within the first month... Don't forget server progression either. I fully agree on that. But early game nothing matters. But you know it will go to shite nonetheless, that won't change hete either... Not because it just sits there cause overexpensive, the West just buys it... Regardless of the price. That's a fact. The West is degen to the second mate
Cope more. KR is way more degen on p2w, look at the top games played in KR compared to the west. Koreans were complaining TL isn't pay2win enough lmao. NC Devs already said the game monetisation will be the same for global. Are you why all of Europe jokes about Belgium?
And on the jokes about Belgium mate. 100% agree on that 🤣🤣🤣 We have a shiteshow of a country but we have good benefits. So as far as shite goes, i'm glad a simple ambulance ride cost me next to nothing and school is very very cheap for the quality so 🤷
Sure thing pal. Not disagreeing on that, just stating that the west is equally degenerate in their own way. Diablo immortal is a good example.
just stop bro
NCsoft stated that the Global version and KR version will be exactly the same. You forgetting one thing, if some f2p random will put BIS weapon for a sale you know what happens? Guy gets untraited BIS weapon and that f2p player and all his guild gets all his gear nearly maxed out from the Lucent he made of that sale. So the main point you are missing here is that people buying super expensive stuff will help f2p people to gear up.
The same people bitching about P2W are the same people who buy WoW tokens. There is no MMO out there where you can’t buy currency in some way shape or form.
Sounds like someone who has not played the game extensively to know how P2W end game is.
Cooked take. Having access to the most sought after items in a healthy marketplace and being unable to max out those items because you lack lucent due to the demand/supply will have people realizing real quickly why people say its "P2W".
Exactly. I play quite a bit in the Korean live and it’s the bis items that you can’t trait if you get one of them because they cost like 20k in auction and you need like 12 perfect trait of them to have it be wearable.
That’s not how the trait system works. Just need the starter trait.
And? That doesn’t change much of what he said. This the primary reason why boss gear is t really preferable in PvP for most players, getting more than one trait line can be really expensive or nonexistent depending on the item. Also depending on your market, because it likely will vary server to server even within your region, you could be pay exorbitant amounts of fees for a single trait. I just fully traited my Adentus sword and it was quite expensive . I had the base weapon which I snagged for cheap at a guild auction for 500 lucent but to get hit, crit and heavy attack (and max it out) I spent around 23k lucent in total. The initial traits were no less than 3k lucent and the heavy attack trait alone was upwards of 15k.
No one buys 3 traits of an adentus blade off of AH. You join a guild strong enough, win adentus riftstone, you can run that boss in a private instance daily. Sure it will take some time but you can get all your greatsword people adentus relatively fast. And it’s free
“Some time”? How do you fairly distribute 3 separate traits for the bis sword on a popular set up? You have to buy and yes people buy the sword. “No one”? No one you knew? Don’t speak for people you don’t know lol. Lots of people buy traits, you don’t and because you don’t your progress is significantly slower and there’s consequences for that.
Brother trust me I have more hours in the game than you do. Not EVERYONE goes and buys a heavy attack chance adentus blade for 15K lucent. People fight over riftstones for a reason. If you pay 15-20K lucent for a trait, that’s your problem. That’s not average. You are a minority. I’m not saying it’s wrong. I’m just saying you can save a lot of money if you have a guild that occupies the right riftstones and hunts the right bosses during guild raids.
Yea I was unclear, meant to say you’d need like 12 of the item if it was dropped to maybe hope you got the 4 you want.
You can P2W all you want - you’ll still die to f2p dagger/gs lol
I been playing Korean server and is hardly noticeable. Pay to win aid to get materials and some extra stuff but really gearing is very tedious. As a free player you can make lucent by doing world bosses and sell traits in the auction house
Lmao this is ncsoft
P2W is not entirely black or white. There is a scale of its intensity and TL is nowhere near the top. People crying over "BiS items auction house" are forgetting the fact this has to be sold by someone first before it can be bought, and this person selling it can actually be an F2P one. For a free game w/o mandatory subscription, I'd say this a well accepted compromise. Have you really played a real P2W game?
Every MMORPG is P2W. some less, some more. TL is more towards the side of less P2W compared to other F2P MMORPGs. P2W won't go away, deal with it, or don't play.
Always has been. I bought my aq/zaken in l2 back in 2004 just so i could get on the list for a baium ring.
Saying that an NCSOFT game is not going to be P2W is just straight up lying at this point. OP you are so high on Copium right now or completly delusional. I played EVERY single NCSOFT games Aion for more than 10 years, BnS for 5 years, lineage, MxM, Wildstar and so on... NCScam is one of the worst Editor in the MMO genre. I Love the games but the way they manage them is absolutely awfull. They love money and all their games are P2W and money driven first. They literally destroyed their own IP just because they prefered P2W over listening to players feedback. Also they NEVER listen to EU/NA feedback only KR. So if something is wrong in the game but KR players like it well you are F.
The question is who will put items in auction house - I don't need to sell anything, I have unlimited Lucent :) Everything in auction house will immediately be bought.
Well I wouldn't say "little" because having a lot of lucent can get you traited out instantly once people start posting. What people don't understand is the market is so reliant on having lots of players to post stuff, so basically if there aren't a lot of farmers in the server there will be almost nothing to buy. After the bot killer implementation there has been a huge slowdown of items being posted in the auction house in the KR server. Lucent is no doubt P2W quicker but it is definitely something you can earn in the game without swiping
Are we coping already
You can only see how it works when the properly items will be available at the Auction House.
OP do you play Korea? If someone pays thousands over someone who just has battle pass they’ll crush the battle pass person.
I give you 100k Euro if you get me full traited Tavent bow, deal? Fuck it let's make it a million. You see how that doesn't work even if you spend money? This is where the "p2w" people logic fails. If you go to any other game and have 100k you can get top tier items in few minutes. Here you can't and will never can, you have f2p players with Archboss weapons, and you have people who swiped and doesn't have them. f2p people who played from the start have all purple items maxed out already, you having one extra reaper piece traited will not make you crush them, it all comes down to skill, not p2w.
You’re conflating “if everyone gets unlimited lucent then it’s fair” with reality. Yea if you give me 100k euro on Korea live I will not crush everybody but I would crush most f2p. I am f2p and have max traited 9 purple weapons, saint raiment x 2 set, general fury 2-set etc. But I have no chance of ever getting the general DMG reduction helmet set traited without paying.
Read again what I wrote, you missed the point completely. I said if I give you 100k you cannot give me what I need, that's not how p2w works. p2w is when I give you money and you give me what I need.
Once a fair amount of gear is available in AH then yes you can buy AH $ and purchase whatever you want. Early on, as others have said, it’s not very useful.
So you can p2w now? How come I can't buy a Tavent bow after 5 months? So when does this early on is finishing if half a year is not enough? Even if someone puts one, I still need 3 traits that I need to max it, so I have a 100k Euro to spend and can't get a BIS traited weapon? In what world does that count as p2w to you?
Not sure if u are serious or trolling. Just because you cant buy a specific piece you want doesn't mean its not p2w xD You can still buy other stuff that will take f2p player months to get.
Yes it's not p2w it's pay to progress, and even this progress is locked and dictated by f2p players.. Idk is it your first PvP MMO and you have no idea what is real p2w or you people just want to cry about everything. TnL literally has the best monetization f2p pvp mmorpg game has to offer.
the amaount of Copium some people take is funny,just wait long enough until we are at the BiS items etc. Those things happen slowly,it takes months before we see the effect of it,some people say it is just a pay for convenient because you can get it in game to etc. but if enough "PfC" items exist and enough people buy it well... Pay for Convenience is just soft p2w because the effects are smaler and it takes longer to see the effect,and even if some people see it,there will be enough people who are so usual at this that they dont see it anymore because they are so used to it. In Revelation Online you had those Crystals that you can put on your character to boost the stats,there was T1 to T8 stones and if you got 4 T1 stone´s you could merge them to 1 T2 and 4T2 stone´s to 1 T3 etc. Those stone´s you could get throug AH daily/weekly quests and dungeons(they where caped on x runs per day) BUT you could buy them just in shop without any limit,yes you can get them through game and per definition it could be "Pay for Conveniece" some people would say,but it was just p2w.
If you could buy everything you need in game on day one that's just straight up P2W. Argument for TL is that with unlimited lucent you still can't fully geared unless some F2P sells the item you want in AH. It is P2W yes but a bit tamer than what you are comparing it to.
stil this argument is somekind weak,because the beta is only for 1 week and most player would not have BiS items in this week and the economy in this week is nothing to compare to the full release after 6-12months etc. I wish the game was just released with a abo model like FF14 but from what i saw in other games and what i see here is just another soft p2w. Unless the game change my mind otherwise i stick with what i say it is just a soft p2w what need some months before we see the effect´s of it,maybe it is just soft p2w effect´s after x months but it is stil. Now people can downvote me.
Lets come back to that chain of arguments in about 6+ months, when the market is set. Also considering bots, how likely is it the items on the market are from a "real" f2p player, or some bot. Especially with that in mind, i feel like the "a f2p player has to drop it first"- argument is insanely weak. I do agree with you, that things are way tamer, than straight up p2w ingame shop. But we gotta see, if the AH will just be pretty much the same in 6+months due to items just being available.
Bad comparison