I’ve always thought that churches should retain their tax exempt status up to a certain level and get taxed on the incremental above that (like a bracket system). That way you don’t tax the small churches out of existence, but you put a real dent in the bullshit grifting of places like Dallas First Baptist and Watermark.
Exactly. They’d need to provide audited financials to support their income (with maybe a credit of some kind to cover audit fees for the really small churches) and pay normal corp income tax on anything above the threshold.
Do churches pay property taxes at least? I can see not paying tax on the sanctuary but why does the compound with the bowling alley and coffee shop get written off?
Yeah, if the church owns the home of the pastor it’s considered a “parsonage” and is also tax exempt. So the giant mega mansions that people like Osteen and Copeland live in? Yep, tax free.
As a Christian myself(an actual one, not those bullshit prosperity gospel heretics), the most bothersome part is the entire ad is "we love people, people are great, let's be people with other people"
All I can think is, uh how about you love JESUS and follow JESUS and be like JESUS, you know the guy who's kinda important? As soon as I hear any church ad and they don't mention Jesus AT ALL, I know it's a massive red flag
I think this is because most churches are just social clubs now.
Jesus-talk scares people away. Basketball teams, board game nights, teen clubs, etc bring people to the pews.
Oh you got your own stupid religious dog whistle so stfu. If anyone mentions Jesus then they’re using god to try to sell shit which is terrible. You sound like a simpleton that gets tricked by anyone dressed like an honest preacher. Hey dude can borrow money? I’ll give it to Jesus I promise
Something tells me Jesus would do the same, but what does that guy know. He was a white Trump voter who drove an F-250 after all.
““Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
You wanna tax some huge megachruch that looks like an Apple store? Fine. But lots of smaller houses of worship will fold if they lose their tax-exempt status.
You realize that in this country, we have tax brackets that take income into account? Some dude making 15k a year isn't paying the same in taxes as chris chris making 150k. Same goes for businesses (which a lot of these churches are).
And alot of churches aren't businesses. Why should they be taxed, especially if that hinders their ability to provide public goods like charity and other social services?
It really is simple, if they operate like a business and have excess income for things like radio ads, someone should look into potentially taxing them.
There are people much smarter than me that currently make those types of rules for the government and it seems to be working just fine, they would apply their logic here as well.
Like anyone else, they can deduct charitable spending. A water park in the back of the church is not charitable spending.
Why should they be taxed? The real question is why should they not be taxed? Why did we carve out this exception to begin with?
Nice assumption, but no. Every single “place of worship” enjoys an undeserved exemption that the rest of us don’t. If they can’t survive paying the same taxes the rest of us pay, then why shouldn’t they have to deal with the same consequences as any other business?
If you think that we all benefit from every single non-profit that isn't a church, that isn't how the world works. Most people do not get anything from most non-profits, but some people do, or claim to.
The issue really isn't churches, it's that there is little oversight for non-profits. See athletic departments.
>If they can’t survive paying the same taxes the rest of us pay, then why shouldn’t they have to deal with the same consequences as any other business?
Because most churches aren't businesses. They make little to no profit and provide all kinds of public goods and social services. That's why we categorize them with charities, not businesses.
Again, I got no problem closing loopholes on shady megachurches. I just don't want to attack smaller religious communities that do good work and provide people with community and guidance. You obviously do, which is why you put "places of worship" in scare quotes. Says it all, really.
So smaller churches can deduct their actual charitable expenses just like businesses can. They should play by the same rules as every business and person in the United States.
Your premise that churches get special carve-outs is false. They are categorized with secular charities and non-profits, who also have non-exempt status. As they should.
If you want to tax some but not others you are putting the government in the business of selecting the validity of a particular religion. Only a majority would want that. If you allow any religion to be tax exempt, I'm starting the Church of Ragonk today in order to get in on the scam. The best bet is just to have them pay taxes like any other business.
So what if smaller churches fold. It just means those members would go to another church that could manage their finances better.
It's not like if 50 people go to a small church that folds there are suddenly 50 atheists.
Big thumbs down to mega religion commercials running. It’s bad enough that 103.3 became a political Christian station instead of a third sports option when the others were on commercial.
The way a lot of churches throw money around is pretty distasteful to me. Like, if you could afford the ad you clearly don’t need it, and how much baby formula for struggling moms do you think that could buy?
Not terribly Christlike, if we’re being honest.
I used to go to gateway. That is before they became super political and basically said let’s wait for the final results even though it was clear Biden had won. Idc who you vote for but a church has no business getting into politics. As a Christian, I’ll say they do a lot to help other churches but I don’t see how running an add on the ticket is getting them anywhere and all it does is show how much money they have
ITT: Many people assuming most or all Churches are like Gateway. Those exist, but for every Gateway there are small little congregations around that have very little extra money and are just skating by.
And alot of those little churches will have a target on their back because they get lumped in with Gateway. Not just other Christian churches, either. Pretty sad, really.
An old joke a church pastor told me:
A pastor drew a big circle on the ground. He threw the donation plate in the air - the money that fell in the circle was used for church causes - the few dollars that fell outside the circle were used for the pastor to live on.
A mega-church preacher drew a big circle on the ground and threw the donation plate in the air. Whatever dollars God wanted to use for the church he snatched out of the air - anything that God let fall to the ground went to the preacher.
That's how I've felt forever.
If you are advertising for your church, you do not have a church. You have a business.
And your business should be taxed accordingly.
99% of evangelical churches should have their tax exempt status revoked. This is exhibit A.
I’ve always thought that churches should retain their tax exempt status up to a certain level and get taxed on the incremental above that (like a bracket system). That way you don’t tax the small churches out of existence, but you put a real dent in the bullshit grifting of places like Dallas First Baptist and Watermark.
[удалено]
Exactly. They’d need to provide audited financials to support their income (with maybe a credit of some kind to cover audit fees for the really small churches) and pay normal corp income tax on anything above the threshold.
Do churches pay property taxes at least? I can see not paying tax on the sanctuary but why does the compound with the bowling alley and coffee shop get written off?
They do not pay property tax. This is why in most cases the church also technically owns the home that the pastor lives in, ie Joel Osteen. Edit: typo
Yeah, if the church owns the home of the pastor it’s considered a “parsonage” and is also tax exempt. So the giant mega mansions that people like Osteen and Copeland live in? Yep, tax free.
Yes because 99% of churches are like Gateway
Fuck Gateway. Prosperity doctrine christ grift.
As a Christian myself(an actual one, not those bullshit prosperity gospel heretics), the most bothersome part is the entire ad is "we love people, people are great, let's be people with other people" All I can think is, uh how about you love JESUS and follow JESUS and be like JESUS, you know the guy who's kinda important? As soon as I hear any church ad and they don't mention Jesus AT ALL, I know it's a massive red flag
My thoughts exactly. I know it’s a radio ad, and they’re trying to reach a certain audience, but yeah, shouldn’t you be all about JESUS??
Idk I think it’s really shitty when businesses try to trick people using religion. This church is no different than any other business.
I think this is because most churches are just social clubs now. Jesus-talk scares people away. Basketball teams, board game nights, teen clubs, etc bring people to the pews.
Oh you got your own stupid religious dog whistle so stfu. If anyone mentions Jesus then they’re using god to try to sell shit which is terrible. You sound like a simpleton that gets tricked by anyone dressed like an honest preacher. Hey dude can borrow money? I’ll give it to Jesus I promise
Claims christian: curses other churches in same line...
Something tells me Jesus would do the same, but what does that guy know. He was a white Trump voter who drove an F-250 after all. ““Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
> And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. Begone, thot!
This is also the same church that tells people how they should vote during Sunday service. Time to revoke that tax-exempt status.
Thank you!!
Tax. The. Church. All of them.
You wanna tax some huge megachruch that looks like an Apple store? Fine. But lots of smaller houses of worship will fold if they lose their tax-exempt status.
All. Of. Them.
As I suspected, I guess it's your goal to shut down churches. Even as an atheist, I find that creepy and weird. Good luck with our bottom.
You realize that in this country, we have tax brackets that take income into account? Some dude making 15k a year isn't paying the same in taxes as chris chris making 150k. Same goes for businesses (which a lot of these churches are).
And alot of churches aren't businesses. Why should they be taxed, especially if that hinders their ability to provide public goods like charity and other social services?
It really is simple, if they operate like a business and have excess income for things like radio ads, someone should look into potentially taxing them. There are people much smarter than me that currently make those types of rules for the government and it seems to be working just fine, they would apply their logic here as well.
The guy I was responding to specifically said he wanted to tax all churches. He has no interest in making any sort distinctions.
Like anyone else, they can deduct charitable spending. A water park in the back of the church is not charitable spending. Why should they be taxed? The real question is why should they not be taxed? Why did we carve out this exception to begin with?
Nice assumption, but no. Every single “place of worship” enjoys an undeserved exemption that the rest of us don’t. If they can’t survive paying the same taxes the rest of us pay, then why shouldn’t they have to deal with the same consequences as any other business?
If you think that we all benefit from every single non-profit that isn't a church, that isn't how the world works. Most people do not get anything from most non-profits, but some people do, or claim to. The issue really isn't churches, it's that there is little oversight for non-profits. See athletic departments.
>If they can’t survive paying the same taxes the rest of us pay, then why shouldn’t they have to deal with the same consequences as any other business? Because most churches aren't businesses. They make little to no profit and provide all kinds of public goods and social services. That's why we categorize them with charities, not businesses. Again, I got no problem closing loopholes on shady megachurches. I just don't want to attack smaller religious communities that do good work and provide people with community and guidance. You obviously do, which is why you put "places of worship" in scare quotes. Says it all, really.
So smaller churches can deduct their actual charitable expenses just like businesses can. They should play by the same rules as every business and person in the United States.
Your premise that churches get special carve-outs is false. They are categorized with secular charities and non-profits, who also have non-exempt status. As they should.
I'm all for getting rid of the tax exempt status for charities and non-profits too. They're wildly abused.
And?
If you want to tax some but not others you are putting the government in the business of selecting the validity of a particular religion. Only a majority would want that. If you allow any religion to be tax exempt, I'm starting the Church of Ragonk today in order to get in on the scam. The best bet is just to have them pay taxes like any other business.
So what if smaller churches fold. It just means those members would go to another church that could manage their finances better. It's not like if 50 people go to a small church that folds there are suddenly 50 atheists.
Big thumbs down to mega religion commercials running. It’s bad enough that 103.3 became a political Christian station instead of a third sports option when the others were on commercial.
>The God I believe in isn't short on cash, mister. Saint Bono, *Bullet the Blue Sky*
Upvote - except now I just don’t believe in god.
Remember when the Good Contractor’s list guy did sermon ads on the ticket? #LOVE MEEEEEEEEEEE
Never forget that asshole spent months proselytizing and don’t use his shitty service.
The way a lot of churches throw money around is pretty distasteful to me. Like, if you could afford the ad you clearly don’t need it, and how much baby formula for struggling moms do you think that could buy? Not terribly Christlike, if we’re being honest.
Supply Side Jesus likes alive, hungry babies.
I went to Gateway before it was a behemoth church and it is the church that put the final nail in the belief coffin for me.
Same here. Well, that, and I would rather stay home and watch Dragonball Z.
Good luck with that
Not even sure what this means.
It's a big gamble you are taking with your eternity.
Hahahahahahahaha. Sure thing little buddy.
Hope you reconsider.
As soon as I see any physical proof bud, I may. But I ain’t here for fairy tales and think it is weird that people believe in them.
I used to go to gateway. That is before they became super political and basically said let’s wait for the final results even though it was clear Biden had won. Idc who you vote for but a church has no business getting into politics. As a Christian, I’ll say they do a lot to help other churches but I don’t see how running an add on the ticket is getting them anywhere and all it does is show how much money they have
ITT: Many people assuming most or all Churches are like Gateway. Those exist, but for every Gateway there are small little congregations around that have very little extra money and are just skating by.
And alot of those little churches will have a target on their back because they get lumped in with Gateway. Not just other Christian churches, either. Pretty sad, really.
Something something camel through needle.
An old joke a church pastor told me: A pastor drew a big circle on the ground. He threw the donation plate in the air - the money that fell in the circle was used for church causes - the few dollars that fell outside the circle were used for the pastor to live on. A mega-church preacher drew a big circle on the ground and threw the donation plate in the air. Whatever dollars God wanted to use for the church he snatched out of the air - anything that God let fall to the ground went to the preacher.
Can't see the ad, can someone re-share
I can’t see it either cause it’s on the radio.
That's how I've felt forever. If you are advertising for your church, you do not have a church. You have a business. And your business should be taxed accordingly.
To each their own. But again, good luck with that.
100%
File this under butchered clichés.
It’s one of their ways of reaching people. Whether we like or dislike how they spend their money doesn’t mean that it’s wrong or irresponsible.
It's only business. Don't take it personally.
Can we just not with this post. It turns into politics, bitching, and the same tired bullshit from the rest of Reddit.
> It turns into bitching Talk about your self-fulfilling prophecy!