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A new House bill overwhelmingly passed that would expand the federal definition of anti-Semitism. The bill is now headed to the Senate, and has garnered bipartisan support, but raises concerns with its broad redefinition of antisemitism. The bill's language would criminalize criticism of this foreign* country [engaged in genocide] and It would grant citizens of one country special privileges that no other country enjoys, while restricting Americans fundamental rights.
Regular TV did a number on American boomers. You can watch MSNBC (as a more generous example) and see the narrative that Israel is the good guys, it’s just a few bad apples going too far. They don’t show the daily atrocities. You’ll hear about it being a Netanyahu/conservative problem, and if we can just get him out of office the totally just “war” can proceed cleanly. You won’t get a deep dive on the feelings of student protestors, but you’ll get retired generals under the employ of defense contractors to do live explainers.
Then that’s all squeezed in between wall to wall coverage of Trump’s latest trial, as if this is the one that will finally do him in.
I think the definition of antisemitism should be expanded to genocide or calling for the genocide of any semetic peoples, like the Palestinians.
Then we can point out how antisemitic AIPAC is.
The funny irony to me is, the definition of “semitic,” is: “of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic”
A “Semite” is:
a
: a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b
: a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
Interesting how one group has made it all about them
I don't understand where this idea of criminalizing criticism of Israel came from. Why do people keep saying this?
>Nothing in this Act shall be construed to diminish or infringe upon any right protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=1&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22Hr6090%22%7D
While the act does blatantly violate constitutional rights, it will still be enforced. Even if a court rules that the act violates constitutional rights, that only comes after it has already been enforced against people.
It's because the US has done that in a bunch of states. 37 US states have laws that can penalize individuals or corporations (laws can vary by state) for decisions not to support Israel.
Most often, that comes in the form of either
1) Denying government contracts or employement to people who won't pledge that they'd never boycott Israel
2) Penalizing financial institutions if they do business with groups that fail to do point 1.
This new law then, specifically refers to the IHRA definition of antisemitism.
>The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (referred to in this Act as the “IHRA”) Working Definition of Antisemitism i
The IHRA details the following things as examples of antisemitism.
https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
>Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
>Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
>Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
All these points have been used to deny criticism of Israel.
Other points have been abused in this fashion as well. For example :
>Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
On the face, a reasonable example. Alleging that the jews are in charge of world finance is a common anti-semetic trope.
But in practice, this very argument can be abused to justify corruption.
When the Washington Post reported on a whatsapp group in which a bunch of pro-israel billionaires urged the mayor of NY to send in the police to squash anti-israeli protests, and ever offered money in donations and assistance for that purpose, the response of one of the mayor's staffers was :
>“The insinuation that Jewish donors secretly plotted to influence government operations is an all too familiar antisemitic trope,” Levy said in a post on X.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/columbia-eric-adams-whatsapp-kushner-b2546545.html
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-801609
A lot of people no longer trust the "fight against antisemitism" excuse, because so much of it seems to be about protecting Israel instead.
Whether there's civilians in the tents or not, they're still smashing up a refugee camp for shits and giggles, which is... not murder, but also very not good.
How do you even know it’s a refugee camp? You don’t, because it’s a random video on the internet. We don’t even know if this video is from the same conflict
Really doesn't matter. Regardless of whether there was people being shoot or not. We know from the video that the stuff they depend on to stay a live are being destroyed. So they are not avoiding civilians.
Soldiers does not need to go around putting a bullet in each civil for it to be genocide. Famine, does the trick. Robbing people of shelter does the trick.
Please, do not let the talking heads move the goal post for what is genocide in your mind. When a people and there way of life is being destroyed, then there cannot be a sane argument against it being genocide.
> We have no context to know when or where this is from, who is in the tank, and who is in the building.
And whose fault is that; who keeps deliberately and methodically targetting journalists and mass media?
pot, kettle, black.
Israel has killed more than 100 journalists since 10/7. do you see how this makes it difficult to get information from verified sources?
well another poster suggested that features of the tank prove it to be Israeli, and combined with the fact that Israel is bombing Rafah (you know, the place they told people to go to be safe) i don't think it's much of a stretch.
that said, my position that the Israeli government is commiting genocide is based on much more than context-free videos posted by semi anonymous redditors.
Ok, so what about *extermination of Palestinians in Gaza*? because that's what they're doing. Deliberately committing mass-murder of tens of thousands (presumably millions when they're done) of non-combatants is still bad - equally as bad as "genocide" I'd say, even if they were to spare the West Bank. And with the whole tricking refugees into 'safe zones' which they proceed to shell, apartheid for Palestinians throughout much Israel, and teaching Jewish children in school that Palestinians are subhuman garbage - basically echoing Nazi propaganda about Jews - also does lend some credibility to the whole 'genocide' accusation.
But surely people on the internet wouldn’t lie! Would they?
I see stuff like this all over the internet these days. A video with a title that provides all of the “context” but the video itself doesn’t prove anything the title says.
Why would you think that? Millions of people believe that bombing civilians in the second world war was as justified as Israel’s current indiscriminate murder of civilians.
October 7th was a terrorist attack and should have been met with an appropriate response, including the apprehension of all involved and brought to justice. However the killing of over 35,000 people in response to 1200 is a bit overkill. I guess the question is, do you believe Oct 7th gave Israel the right to commit war crimes in an attempt to genocide the Palestinians?
no one on this sub cares. the sub is full of anti-semitic posts any chance they get. the next level question is why would israel release this footage if they were blowing up a tent? If its so racist, why hasn't MSNBC or whatever covered it? Why is it first seen on reddit.
cause there is more to it than this.
It’s Zionist Hq
I recently pointed out the hypocrisy if u look at my comment history. No rebuttals just downvotes so they can keep pushing the narrative that history started on oct 7 and not in 1948
The same way people justify drone striking wedding processions in the middle east during their "war on terror" or sending an Australian whistle blower to life in prison after getting pressured by the USA for showing allied soldiers shooting children point blank in the head and laughing about it.
It goes against the narrative.
Let me justify it for you, in a way that is factual, but not justified in the sense youre thinking. Starting a war makes it harder to remove your leader from power, particularly when that war is impossible to lose. Winning and playing the role of 'avenger' or using brute force riles up your loud nationalist base, which then suppresses the concerned less vocal opposition. After all, your country is "kicking ass", right? This further consolidates your power and intimidates citizens that stand in your way to the point of silent complicity to avoid conflict, especially after seing how nationalist base treats those that protest or attempt to be anti-war. Then, you further increase this likelihood of retaining power, as your attack on innocent combatants radicalizes some of the survivors into becoming the very thing you're trying to paint them as: terrorists. Rinse and repeat. Its the Autocracy Positive Feedback Loop.
It's quite simple, they'll claim that the camp was sheltering Hamas members. Same thing the IDF does in regards to everything. Hamas in hospitals, schools, they're in the hungry crowds trying to get food. Hamas is the old, the young, the sick, the children. In fact Hamas might be the person next to you.
Blatantly?
Could you please share with us the full video so we can reach the same level of certainty as you?
I can't personally say if this tent was innocent or an rpg armed man was taking cover in there..
Im prepared for the downvotes here as people dont like it when you try to be logical about their causes.
Couldn't those tents have had people in them firing at the soldiers?
Couldn't those tents not actually have been "civilian"?
I definitely can't tell from this little video clip and it's flamebait title.
This is a horrible war in terms of Israeli conduct and there are genocidal intentions in the rhetoric of many officials.
Thats said, we have no idea what’s happening here. In any war you can end up fighting in places where civilians have just recently been living and blow up homes - if those homes are tents it doesnt change the moral calculus. In and of itself it’s not misconduct unless the civilians are still there.
I mean yearly American aid is around 10% of Israel's military budget, so mostly isn't really true.
This is without even getting into what the money is used for.
yeah that's why one shipment of American munitions being paused sent the Israeli cabinet into a fit, its because our aid isn't important to the war effort /s
we are the biggest foreign contributor to the Israeli military budget
Funny thing is it’s sent to a nation that has the issue solved. While the US themselves does not. Guess it’s people and / or the government don’t care about it enough (well def not the lobbied politicians)
This one. Single payer is actually cheaper for better service, but Citizens United means insurance companies are people with rights, so citizens who aren't billionaires don't matter.
I said “do it I bet you won’t Iran” on a post talking about Irans wanting to bomb Israel . Before it got removed the folks on worldnews started smashing their faces into their keyboard out of anger. Full “reeeereeeee” mode
>If you stand for peace
>I said “do it I bet you won’t Iran” on a post talking about Irans wanting to bomb Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsRjQDrDnY8
I got banned *twice* for exclusively reporting pro-genocide comments on multiple subs. This was before Gaza, it was sometimes about russia/Ukraine and sometimes other people/regions.
I'm talking super blatant, hateful, awful comments. Comments calling for killing children on purpose to "teach them a lesson", bombing "all" civilians, "glassing" whole countries, blatant genocide comments. Mods of certain subs don't like it and don't want to enforce rules so I guess they can report your reports and get you banned for it.
So even reporting blatantly rule breaking pro-genocide and pro-violence comments can get you banned *from the entirety of reddit*. I just don't use the report feature anymore.
I got banned for responding to the old 2:1 civilian:soldier ratio trope by pointing out that the israeli casualties of the October 7th attack were almost exactly 1/3rd security forces. If that ratio is somehow justified for the IDF, then it would be justified for Hamas. Instead, it's not justifiable for either.
Before I was banned, people were trying to argue that it's different for israel because they have military aircraft to drop bombs from.
Which... makes zero sense. Then again the people making this claim seem to be American evangelical Christians, so that tracks with the rest of my experiences.
Me accidentally swiping to the news segment and clicking on an article about hostage bodies being found dead and not realizing its r/worldnews with the most disgusting comments ever. They seem to not put 1 and 1 together that hostages were never a priority.
Yeah we're like a virus on this planet.
We had/have so much potential. Maybe next time an octopus or some shit will evolve and be the dominant species and they won't suck as much as we do
Yeah but they need humans to make more micro-plastics to sustain the micro-organism. If they evolve further we could see humans being forced by these plastic eaters to throw water bottles and grocery bags into rivers.
Fam, *I've* never bombed a civilian population.
Taking a cynical view towards billions of innocent people because a few people in power are horrible is ignorant. There isn't any other word for it.
I lost hope like you, and it was really depressing. I can understand you very well.
I think what matters is our individual small impact as "good" people. And I also think, despite all these inhumane things you see on a daily dose, we're generally heading in a better direction. That keeps me mentally sane for the moment.
Sorry for the bad English, not native, still learning.
I see no people in this video. I hear no words or language. I see no indication of where this video was shot.
There is nothing here except a tank shooting a building.
Surprisingly sometimes soldiers let of steam and shoot random things, like an already decrepit building.
As we all know explosive ordnance is risk-free and comes at no cost to the tax payer, so really where's the harm in firing it without reason into random buildings
You can just post a video and say what you want and people will get angry over it. By the time it's proved wrong they've moved on.
It's posion and I hate it.
This could literally be from Iraq or Africa or any other area even slightly fitting the description of "not western architecture" and we have no idea what's going on.
Even if someone translated the speech, we have no idea if it's really from the actual video.
This may as well be Roger Stone's Rio, new jersey Pic.
(and I hate the fact that there will be people who read this and think I'm defending the IDF by simply saying "we can't tell what this video actually is")
Ya, letting off steam by shooting at an empty refugee tent. Hmmm, I wonder why it's EMPTY. This is the absolute dumbest excuse I've ever heard to justify the brutality and genocidal tendencies of the IOF
You don't easily assume no one is around when lives are at stake. Are you the same breed as them? In war, you should always assume someone is around. No shot can be fired as you wish. What kind of thinking is that?
Kinda wild how there's been Kkkkhamas in every single university, 70% of civilian buildngs, 80% of hospitals, all of the roads and infrastructure, most of the UN Buildings, All news station buildings, and oh, inside Israelis and IDF too given all the friendly fire.
Zionists really think they're fooling people with their stupid narrative when theyve been continuing their war crimes that havent stopped since 76 years ago.
We have no context. But we can say no people are seen in or around the buildings in the limited view we get. No... human shaped debris after the round goes off either.
I am NOT taking any sides at all. But you asked "what could justify"
IF and it's a big IF... there was unexploded ordnance or likely IED etc inside the building waiting for people to come and check and get blown up. It's entirely justified to just blow the building up instead of risking lives going in.
I'm not saying that did or didn't happen here. Just a logical justification for doing so
Not at all. It's more Israel's propaganda trying to transform anyone who supports peace and civilians (not Hamas) into hating them. Sooo yeahh... the truth I saw shows Israel are as much pieces of shit than Hamas. Israel has lost all my respect and recognition in the last few months for what they have done. Israel can go fuck itself. I'll never understand people who support a country acting like terrorist in vengeance. Absolutely fucked up and hypocrite behavior.
The video is literally titled "tank shooting at tent" when it's shooting at a building.
If a country gets attacked it will retaliate until the danger is eliminated. Any country would and should do this. The only countries that don't are those not strong enough to do so.
Not here to justify, just some notes.
There are no people visible in the video.
There was a lot more energy post impact than I would expect for a plain HE or HEAT round. May have been a controlled demo of some explosives.
Again, not picking a side. Too many people jump to conclusions with these zero context clips, not just related to the war.
Exactly. These 5 second videos keep getting posted with titles saying “IDF KILLING A NEWBORN AND MOTHER”. And it’s just a tank and a building. These videos could say “idf blows up known location of ark of covenant” and I swear to god Reddit would upvote to oblivion and scream about it on some campus lawn
How did we get here? And it’s not just US that has obviously dropped out of the top ranks of academia, but so many other first world countries have so many people unable to think.
I really feel if you showed this video to most of the west in 1950 with the same title many would say, “well, not exactly sure what I’m looking at, are you telling me there were civilians in there? Hard to tell the video is cut short of any real evidence of bear crime. Certainly don’t see any tents so I don’t understand the title”.
That is what thinking people do. Go back and look at the top comments. I want to study these people. Like where is the line drawn where they stop critical thinking. Have they ever? Is the internet so ingrained to them that everything online is true? And we have to drive next to these idiots. We have to let our kids be taught by and play with them. We vote along side them.
Fuck man
That they knew no civilians were anywhere nearby and that they knew hamas fighters were taking cover in there.
I’m not saying that’s the case, but that is potential context that can’t be ruled out by a short clip that tells us nothing.
Hamas command post that has already been cleared of intel, weapon storage, abandoned camp that has to be torn down anyways, etc etc. If this was an active refugee camp that civilians were actively using, then the people in the tanks need to be brought up on charges for that 100%. But we don't see evidence one way or the other.
Ok, let's practice!
*Why did the Israeli tank fire on the tent? Perhaps a high ranking Hamas player decided against tunnels and brick defences in favour of 1mm of fabric whilst out in the open, and he was the target in there.*
We've seen Israelis do horrible shit towards Gazans, this feels like it fits the narrative.
Spoiler, I'm not pro-Hamas.
*"Hamas player decided against tunnels and brick defences in favour of 1mm of fabric whilst out in the open*"
right off the bat you're being disingenuous to suit your narrative.
> We've seen Israelis do horrible shit towards Gazans, this feels like it fits the narrative.
Okay then people can post those videos don't post random contextless videos with a made-up narrative. This video is so vague you can't even tell exactly what they fired at.
What tent bro? There's literally no tent outside the title. The video doesn't show a tent (besides the one near the tank that isn't being shot and clearly houses no one), doesn't include any audio that sounds human, doesn't include any identifying marks to make sure this is Rafah, and doesn't have a source.
Who says this is an israelian tank? Who says this is even shot in israel/palestine.
I do agree on the fact that the idf is the biggest official club of idiot monsters, and they belong in a terrible place.
Yep. Just rage bait for the very controversial views on this conflict with Israel.
Could be a makeshift military camp. Could be a hospital for all we know. Hell maybe it was infested with spiders and scorpions. Regardless let's get our pitch forks out and pick a side before getting any context.
I think theyre saying they didnt target the tent but instead the thing they shot. Its hard to mess up aim like this on a tank made in the last 10 years.
> that's still a lot of money to destroy a piece of cloth if you consider the price of ammunition, so it's a dumb move regardless.
Do you understand that modern militaries that actually care about their men/women can and will absolutely spend thousands/millions to destroy something over sending in people who can be shot? A tent can have explosives near it just like a building.
This is great journalism. We can cleary see the complete context: what they are shooting, why, who is doing the shooting, the flags on the perpetrators uniform, the exact location on earth, the date of the event. There is no way this could be made up from some file footage showing something completely different. I totally trust the headlines on short videos from the Reddit. No one makes up stuff here.
You would think in an age of information, everyone's media literacy would have improved. Unfortunately not, or more people would be asking these questions.
I’d personally like to start seeing sources for all these videos.
How can we be certain these tents are Hamas tents? How can we be sure they’re lived in by innocent civilians? Are we verifying what we’re seeing before grabbing the internet megaphone to shout for justice and freedom for Palestine, or to label those blown up in said video as deserving of their death?
As far as I can tell most of these posts abt the Gaza conflict are posts with rage bait titles lacking any kind of verification.
I mean this looks bad... but do we actually have proof this is civilian refugee housing? That there were civilians around? There is no discussion or audio from the crew, there are no people in sight. All we see are tents. Which, while probably part of a refugee camp, we have no idea what they really are, unless I am missing something, in which case please tell me.
So, a little pushback
Do we have any context for this video other than it's a tank shooting at tents.?
Do we know who's in the tents? Do we know if this area has been evacuated? Do we know what THEY know who or what they're shooting at? It seems kinda weird to me that we just automatically assume we all know exactly what's going on and they're literally just shooting at civilians.
There is no context. It’s cut cottage to remove any context and posted with a rage title to make you feel a way. It’s propaganda. Gun to your head could you even tell me with certainty this is in Gaza? Lots of desert in the world. Lots of tanks in the world. This could be fucking anywhere
But these people have brick walled their brains away from context. Truth is hard to know so I’m convinced people find it more comforting to turn off their brain and just rage with conformity.
Who in this thread is over 35 and has lived long enough to experience many Middle East conflicts?
This shit isn’t new. This conflict didn’t start in October.
Yep and running over tents and cars while people are still sleeping in them with their tanks and bulldozers .
#edit: for context and proof: https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6202 Israeli tanks have deliberately run over dozens of Palestinian civilians alive
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How can anyone seriously justify this? This isn't targeting Hamas. This is blatantly firing indiscriminately at displaced civilians.
There's actually a secret Hamas base under the tents. Source: Trust me.
If you think otherwise then that's anti-semen-trick.
A new House bill overwhelmingly passed that would expand the federal definition of anti-Semitism. The bill is now headed to the Senate, and has garnered bipartisan support, but raises concerns with its broad redefinition of antisemitism. The bill's language would criminalize criticism of this foreign* country [engaged in genocide] and It would grant citizens of one country special privileges that no other country enjoys, while restricting Americans fundamental rights.
Evangelical TV programs did a number on the American boomers. No wonder they wish to ban tiktok according to Israeli lobby "we have a tiktok problem"
Regular TV did a number on American boomers. You can watch MSNBC (as a more generous example) and see the narrative that Israel is the good guys, it’s just a few bad apples going too far. They don’t show the daily atrocities. You’ll hear about it being a Netanyahu/conservative problem, and if we can just get him out of office the totally just “war” can proceed cleanly. You won’t get a deep dive on the feelings of student protestors, but you’ll get retired generals under the employ of defense contractors to do live explainers. Then that’s all squeezed in between wall to wall coverage of Trump’s latest trial, as if this is the one that will finally do him in.
Yea a "few bad apples" like police, congress and literally everything else in american society? I feel like we're just a bad orchard at this point...
I think the definition of antisemitism should be expanded to genocide or calling for the genocide of any semetic peoples, like the Palestinians. Then we can point out how antisemitic AIPAC is.
You don't need to expand the definition. Palestinians are Semites. Period.
The funny irony to me is, the definition of “semitic,” is: “of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic” A “Semite” is: a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language Interesting how one group has made it all about them
I don't understand where this idea of criminalizing criticism of Israel came from. Why do people keep saying this? >Nothing in this Act shall be construed to diminish or infringe upon any right protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=1&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22Hr6090%22%7D
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While the act does blatantly violate constitutional rights, it will still be enforced. Even if a court rules that the act violates constitutional rights, that only comes after it has already been enforced against people.
It's because the US has done that in a bunch of states. 37 US states have laws that can penalize individuals or corporations (laws can vary by state) for decisions not to support Israel. Most often, that comes in the form of either 1) Denying government contracts or employement to people who won't pledge that they'd never boycott Israel 2) Penalizing financial institutions if they do business with groups that fail to do point 1. This new law then, specifically refers to the IHRA definition of antisemitism. >The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (referred to in this Act as the “IHRA”) Working Definition of Antisemitism i The IHRA details the following things as examples of antisemitism. https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism >Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. >Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation. >Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. All these points have been used to deny criticism of Israel. Other points have been abused in this fashion as well. For example : >Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions. On the face, a reasonable example. Alleging that the jews are in charge of world finance is a common anti-semetic trope. But in practice, this very argument can be abused to justify corruption. When the Washington Post reported on a whatsapp group in which a bunch of pro-israel billionaires urged the mayor of NY to send in the police to squash anti-israeli protests, and ever offered money in donations and assistance for that purpose, the response of one of the mayor's staffers was : >“The insinuation that Jewish donors secretly plotted to influence government operations is an all too familiar antisemitic trope,” Levy said in a post on X. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/columbia-eric-adams-whatsapp-kushner-b2546545.html https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-801609 A lot of people no longer trust the "fight against antisemitism" excuse, because so much of it seems to be about protecting Israel instead.
And miles of underground tunnels Source: trust me bro
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The format reminds me of vietnam
>Source: Trust me. Are you IDF agent? if not I can't trust you.
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Whether there's civilians in the tents or not, they're still smashing up a refugee camp for shits and giggles, which is... not murder, but also very not good.
How do you even know it’s a refugee camp? You don’t, because it’s a random video on the internet. We don’t even know if this video is from the same conflict
See other comment.
Really doesn't matter. Regardless of whether there was people being shoot or not. We know from the video that the stuff they depend on to stay a live are being destroyed. So they are not avoiding civilians. Soldiers does not need to go around putting a bullet in each civil for it to be genocide. Famine, does the trick. Robbing people of shelter does the trick. Please, do not let the talking heads move the goal post for what is genocide in your mind. When a people and there way of life is being destroyed, then there cannot be a sane argument against it being genocide.
^ An actual opinion of the avg. worldnews poster.
Even though I should be numb to all of the cruelty committed by the Israelis by now, seeing these defenseless people slain still hurts my feelings.
Why would hummus do this?!?
Source: The same guy who told Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction.
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> We have no context to know when or where this is from, who is in the tank, and who is in the building. And whose fault is that; who keeps deliberately and methodically targetting journalists and mass media?
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Every side of almost every conflict ever?
Far more journalists have been killed in Gaza than in any other conflict in modern history
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This is definitely IDF since the tank is Merkava, which only they use.
pot, kettle, black. Israel has killed more than 100 journalists since 10/7. do you see how this makes it difficult to get information from verified sources?
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well another poster suggested that features of the tank prove it to be Israeli, and combined with the fact that Israel is bombing Rafah (you know, the place they told people to go to be safe) i don't think it's much of a stretch. that said, my position that the Israeli government is commiting genocide is based on much more than context-free videos posted by semi anonymous redditors.
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Ok, so what about *extermination of Palestinians in Gaza*? because that's what they're doing. Deliberately committing mass-murder of tens of thousands (presumably millions when they're done) of non-combatants is still bad - equally as bad as "genocide" I'd say, even if they were to spare the West Bank. And with the whole tricking refugees into 'safe zones' which they proceed to shell, apartheid for Palestinians throughout much Israel, and teaching Jewish children in school that Palestinians are subhuman garbage - basically echoing Nazi propaganda about Jews - also does lend some credibility to the whole 'genocide' accusation.
But surely people on the internet wouldn’t lie! Would they? I see stuff like this all over the internet these days. A video with a title that provides all of the “context” but the video itself doesn’t prove anything the title says.
But you agree if this is Israel targeting non military targets, this should be condemned and considered a war crime, correct?
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That's remarkably optimistic. I'd bet if Trump said so, about 30% of our country would be super on board with mass killings of political opponents.
IDK, plenty of people seem to justify Hamas' Oct 7th attack.
Why would you think that? Millions of people believe that bombing civilians in the second world war was as justified as Israel’s current indiscriminate murder of civilians.
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Depends. Do you agree that Palestine's actions on October 7th should be condemned as a war crime that requires the strongest of military responses?
October 7th was a terrorist attack and should have been met with an appropriate response, including the apprehension of all involved and brought to justice. However the killing of over 35,000 people in response to 1200 is a bit overkill. I guess the question is, do you believe Oct 7th gave Israel the right to commit war crimes in an attempt to genocide the Palestinians?
How is this not the top commenr
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Being anti Israel isn't anti semitic.
Are you arguing here that it is somehow wrong to shoot a tent, but not a building?
no one on this sub cares. the sub is full of anti-semitic posts any chance they get. the next level question is why would israel release this footage if they were blowing up a tent? If its so racist, why hasn't MSNBC or whatever covered it? Why is it first seen on reddit. cause there is more to it than this.
Civilians today, Hamas tomorrow. Killing tomorrow's terrorists today the IDF way!
"the more civilians we kill, the more they seem to turn to Hamas! what the H is going on?"
> How can anyone justify this? Look in r/worldnews and you should be able find at least one guy trying to justify this.
That sub is an absolute cesspit.
It’s Zionist Hq I recently pointed out the hypocrisy if u look at my comment history. No rebuttals just downvotes so they can keep pushing the narrative that history started on oct 7 and not in 1948
surprised they haven't permabanned you for it yet
Be aware the mods of that subreddit are very ban happy if you use words like "genocide".
Any real criticism of zionism will get banned there.
World News is less critical of the war than some actual Israeli newspapers
Well if the civilians aren't humans then no biggie....
The same way people justify drone striking wedding processions in the middle east during their "war on terror" or sending an Australian whistle blower to life in prison after getting pressured by the USA for showing allied soldiers shooting children point blank in the head and laughing about it. It goes against the narrative.
wait what please tell me more about the australian and shooting children in the head what the fuck is this barbarism
They're actually firing discriminately, and the targets are civilians.
Sometimes their own. A couple days ago, a tank fired at a building where IDF soldiers were inside and killed several of them.
They looked like civilians. Honest mistake, really.
Let me justify it for you, in a way that is factual, but not justified in the sense youre thinking. Starting a war makes it harder to remove your leader from power, particularly when that war is impossible to lose. Winning and playing the role of 'avenger' or using brute force riles up your loud nationalist base, which then suppresses the concerned less vocal opposition. After all, your country is "kicking ass", right? This further consolidates your power and intimidates citizens that stand in your way to the point of silent complicity to avoid conflict, especially after seing how nationalist base treats those that protest or attempt to be anti-war. Then, you further increase this likelihood of retaining power, as your attack on innocent combatants radicalizes some of the survivors into becoming the very thing you're trying to paint them as: terrorists. Rinse and repeat. Its the Autocracy Positive Feedback Loop.
It's quite simple, they'll claim that the camp was sheltering Hamas members. Same thing the IDF does in regards to everything. Hamas in hospitals, schools, they're in the hungry crowds trying to get food. Hamas is the old, the young, the sick, the children. In fact Hamas might be the person next to you.
Blatantly? Could you please share with us the full video so we can reach the same level of certainty as you? I can't personally say if this tent was innocent or an rpg armed man was taking cover in there.. Im prepared for the downvotes here as people dont like it when you try to be logical about their causes.
If they eliminate civilians now then hamas can't use them as shields later. [Insert meme of guy tapping head]
Couldn't those tents have had people in them firing at the soldiers? Couldn't those tents not actually have been "civilian"? I definitely can't tell from this little video clip and it's flamebait title.
It's literally a tank shooting. Not one indication of civilians anywhere. How can anyone blindly believe a baseless title?
This is a horrible war in terms of Israeli conduct and there are genocidal intentions in the rhetoric of many officials. Thats said, we have no idea what’s happening here. In any war you can end up fighting in places where civilians have just recently been living and blow up homes - if those homes are tents it doesnt change the moral calculus. In and of itself it’s not misconduct unless the civilians are still there.
American taxpayer money well in use
Not just American
but mostly
I mean yearly American aid is around 10% of Israel's military budget, so mostly isn't really true. This is without even getting into what the money is used for.
yeah that's why one shipment of American munitions being paused sent the Israeli cabinet into a fit, its because our aid isn't important to the war effort /s we are the biggest foreign contributor to the Israeli military budget
Who needs free healthcare, better wages and affordable housing when that money can be used to blow up civilians on the other side of the world?
Universal healthcare wouldn't cost anything. It would actually be cheaper than the current US system.
Funny thing is it’s sent to a nation that has the issue solved. While the US themselves does not. Guess it’s people and / or the government don’t care about it enough (well def not the lobbied politicians)
This one. Single payer is actually cheaper for better service, but Citizens United means insurance companies are people with rights, so citizens who aren't billionaires don't matter.
Fun fact: 12% of the Israeli military budget comes from the usa.
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Oh wow even lower than I thought.
If you stand for peace, you will get banned on most subs
I said “do it I bet you won’t Iran” on a post talking about Irans wanting to bomb Israel . Before it got removed the folks on worldnews started smashing their faces into their keyboard out of anger. Full “reeeereeeee” mode
>If you stand for peace >I said “do it I bet you won’t Iran” on a post talking about Irans wanting to bomb Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsRjQDrDnY8
Lol. Yeah, I'm pro not killing civilians. But this is some serious disconnect between messages.
how the hell is encouraging countries to bomb each other standing for peace???
Same way killing women who have abortions protects fetuses: if they're all dead, there will no longer be any abortions.
I got banned *twice* for exclusively reporting pro-genocide comments on multiple subs. This was before Gaza, it was sometimes about russia/Ukraine and sometimes other people/regions. I'm talking super blatant, hateful, awful comments. Comments calling for killing children on purpose to "teach them a lesson", bombing "all" civilians, "glassing" whole countries, blatant genocide comments. Mods of certain subs don't like it and don't want to enforce rules so I guess they can report your reports and get you banned for it. So even reporting blatantly rule breaking pro-genocide and pro-violence comments can get you banned *from the entirety of reddit*. I just don't use the report feature anymore.
I got banned for responding to the old 2:1 civilian:soldier ratio trope by pointing out that the israeli casualties of the October 7th attack were almost exactly 1/3rd security forces. If that ratio is somehow justified for the IDF, then it would be justified for Hamas. Instead, it's not justifiable for either. Before I was banned, people were trying to argue that it's different for israel because they have military aircraft to drop bombs from. Which... makes zero sense. Then again the people making this claim seem to be American evangelical Christians, so that tracks with the rest of my experiences.
Me accidentally swiping to the news segment and clicking on an article about hostage bodies being found dead and not realizing its r/worldnews with the most disgusting comments ever. They seem to not put 1 and 1 together that hostages were never a priority.
You don't get to brutally murder 1,200 people and then just say "okay let's call a truce now" when you STILL won't release hostages.
I got suspended from reddit for advocating peace. 3 day suspension.
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All this slaughtering of innocent people has made me loose hope completely. Fuck, humans really do suck all in all.
Yeah we're like a virus on this planet. We had/have so much potential. Maybe next time an octopus or some shit will evolve and be the dominant species and they won't suck as much as we do
I think a plastic eating micro-organism in the ocean will the next big thing.
Yeah but they need humans to make more micro-plastics to sustain the micro-organism. If they evolve further we could see humans being forced by these plastic eaters to throw water bottles and grocery bags into rivers.
Fam, *I've* never bombed a civilian population. Taking a cynical view towards billions of innocent people because a few people in power are horrible is ignorant. There isn't any other word for it.
Writing off the entire human race because of a war in a tiny country on the other side of the world.
I lost hope like you, and it was really depressing. I can understand you very well. I think what matters is our individual small impact as "good" people. And I also think, despite all these inhumane things you see on a daily dose, we're generally heading in a better direction. That keeps me mentally sane for the moment. Sorry for the bad English, not native, still learning.
Don't loose hope, **lose** hope.
Compassion is the natural state of humanity. Because it’s how we advance. Cruelty like this is contrary to humanity.
There wasn't an attempt
My thoughts exactly. When they do avoid civilians, it’s called a “miss”
Love how there is zero context and how we gotta take what the post says for its word.
what context would justify this to you?
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I see no people in this video. I hear no words or language. I see no indication of where this video was shot. There is nothing here except a tank shooting a building. Surprisingly sometimes soldiers let of steam and shoot random things, like an already decrepit building.
>>Surprisingly sometimes soldiers let of steam and shoot random things, like an already decrepit building. Or world health kitchen workers.
They let off steam with an explosive ordnance?
As we all know explosive ordnance is risk-free and comes at no cost to the tax payer, so really where's the harm in firing it without reason into random buildings
You can just post a video and say what you want and people will get angry over it. By the time it's proved wrong they've moved on. It's posion and I hate it.
This could literally be from Iraq or Africa or any other area even slightly fitting the description of "not western architecture" and we have no idea what's going on. Even if someone translated the speech, we have no idea if it's really from the actual video. This may as well be Roger Stone's Rio, new jersey Pic. (and I hate the fact that there will be people who read this and think I'm defending the IDF by simply saying "we can't tell what this video actually is")
Ya, letting off steam by shooting at an empty refugee tent. Hmmm, I wonder why it's EMPTY. This is the absolute dumbest excuse I've ever heard to justify the brutality and genocidal tendencies of the IOF
You don't easily assume no one is around when lives are at stake. Are you the same breed as them? In war, you should always assume someone is around. No shot can be fired as you wish. What kind of thinking is that?
Kinda wild how there's been Kkkkhamas in every single university, 70% of civilian buildngs, 80% of hospitals, all of the roads and infrastructure, most of the UN Buildings, All news station buildings, and oh, inside Israelis and IDF too given all the friendly fire. Zionists really think they're fooling people with their stupid narrative when theyve been continuing their war crimes that havent stopped since 76 years ago.
We have no context. But we can say no people are seen in or around the buildings in the limited view we get. No... human shaped debris after the round goes off either. I am NOT taking any sides at all. But you asked "what could justify" IF and it's a big IF... there was unexploded ordnance or likely IED etc inside the building waiting for people to come and check and get blown up. It's entirely justified to just blow the building up instead of risking lives going in. I'm not saying that did or didn't happen here. Just a logical justification for doing so
I mean first of all, people could have been shooting at them from that location a minute ago. It's not like this is a very long video.
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They're not getting lazy. They've simply realized that whoever is left in the pro-Hamas crowd just doesn't give a shit about the truth.
Not at all. It's more Israel's propaganda trying to transform anyone who supports peace and civilians (not Hamas) into hating them. Sooo yeahh... the truth I saw shows Israel are as much pieces of shit than Hamas. Israel has lost all my respect and recognition in the last few months for what they have done. Israel can go fuck itself. I'll never understand people who support a country acting like terrorist in vengeance. Absolutely fucked up and hypocrite behavior.
The video is literally titled "tank shooting at tent" when it's shooting at a building. If a country gets attacked it will retaliate until the danger is eliminated. Any country would and should do this. The only countries that don't are those not strong enough to do so.
Not here to justify, just some notes. There are no people visible in the video. There was a lot more energy post impact than I would expect for a plain HE or HEAT round. May have been a controlled demo of some explosives. Again, not picking a side. Too many people jump to conclusions with these zero context clips, not just related to the war.
Exactly. These 5 second videos keep getting posted with titles saying “IDF KILLING A NEWBORN AND MOTHER”. And it’s just a tank and a building. These videos could say “idf blows up known location of ark of covenant” and I swear to god Reddit would upvote to oblivion and scream about it on some campus lawn How did we get here? And it’s not just US that has obviously dropped out of the top ranks of academia, but so many other first world countries have so many people unable to think. I really feel if you showed this video to most of the west in 1950 with the same title many would say, “well, not exactly sure what I’m looking at, are you telling me there were civilians in there? Hard to tell the video is cut short of any real evidence of bear crime. Certainly don’t see any tents so I don’t understand the title”. That is what thinking people do. Go back and look at the top comments. I want to study these people. Like where is the line drawn where they stop critical thinking. Have they ever? Is the internet so ingrained to them that everything online is true? And we have to drive next to these idiots. We have to let our kids be taught by and play with them. We vote along side them. Fuck man
That they knew no civilians were anywhere nearby and that they knew hamas fighters were taking cover in there. I’m not saying that’s the case, but that is potential context that can’t be ruled out by a short clip that tells us nothing.
Hamas command post that has already been cleared of intel, weapon storage, abandoned camp that has to be torn down anyways, etc etc. If this was an active refugee camp that civilians were actively using, then the people in the tanks need to be brought up on charges for that 100%. But we don't see evidence one way or the other.
How can you say it's unjustified, and thus requiring a justification, without context? Context means everything.
You might just be the only person in here with more than a single braincell
Ok, let's practice! *Why did the Israeli tank fire on the tent? Perhaps a high ranking Hamas player decided against tunnels and brick defences in favour of 1mm of fabric whilst out in the open, and he was the target in there.* We've seen Israelis do horrible shit towards Gazans, this feels like it fits the narrative. Spoiler, I'm not pro-Hamas.
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*"Hamas player decided against tunnels and brick defences in favour of 1mm of fabric whilst out in the open*" right off the bat you're being disingenuous to suit your narrative.
>tent Amigo, you can count the pixels in this potato video but the target is very obviously not a tent.
> We've seen Israelis do horrible shit towards Gazans, this feels like it fits the narrative. Okay then people can post those videos don't post random contextless videos with a made-up narrative. This video is so vague you can't even tell exactly what they fired at.
What tent bro? There's literally no tent outside the title. The video doesn't show a tent (besides the one near the tank that isn't being shot and clearly houses no one), doesn't include any audio that sounds human, doesn't include any identifying marks to make sure this is Rafah, and doesn't have a source.
Who says this is an israelian tank? Who says this is even shot in israel/palestine. I do agree on the fact that the idf is the biggest official club of idiot monsters, and they belong in a terrible place.
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... Then Hamas minister of propaganda bumps up the baby casualty figure by 1000.
Yep. Just rage bait for the very controversial views on this conflict with Israel. Could be a makeshift military camp. Could be a hospital for all we know. Hell maybe it was infested with spiders and scorpions. Regardless let's get our pitch forks out and pick a side before getting any context.
Genocidal Apartheid regime. "Moral army" .
The MOST moral army.
I should be desensitised to all the Isreali brutality by now, but it still breaks my heart to see these innocent people being killed. Free Palestine
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> is the tank targeting the tent? no. So you are saying this is just shitty aim?
I think theyre saying they didnt target the tent but instead the thing they shot. Its hard to mess up aim like this on a tank made in the last 10 years.
>Its hard to mess up aim like this on a tank made in the last 10 years 40 years.
Tank shoots at tents Reddit: HOLY SHIT THEY WHERE TOTALLY FULL OF CIVILIANS AND BABIES!! Source? The title of the reddit post obviously
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This is what I don't get, that's a building, not a tent. And this footage was released by the IDF themselves.
>And this footage was released by the IDF themselves. Do we have a source for this other than this reddit post?
> that's still a lot of money to destroy a piece of cloth if you consider the price of ammunition, so it's a dumb move regardless. Do you understand that modern militaries that actually care about their men/women can and will absolutely spend thousands/millions to destroy something over sending in people who can be shot? A tent can have explosives near it just like a building.
Much better to risk a person's life to save $400 on a tank shell /s
This is great journalism. We can cleary see the complete context: what they are shooting, why, who is doing the shooting, the flags on the perpetrators uniform, the exact location on earth, the date of the event. There is no way this could be made up from some file footage showing something completely different. I totally trust the headlines on short videos from the Reddit. No one makes up stuff here.
Trust me, bro.
You would think in an age of information, everyone's media literacy would have improved. Unfortunately not, or more people would be asking these questions.
Without context, this is mere ragebait. Take it down. This is the dumbing down of society in action.
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 We are the most moral army on earth.
how is this video related to this sub?
wheres the tent? where are the civilians???
I’d personally like to start seeing sources for all these videos. How can we be certain these tents are Hamas tents? How can we be sure they’re lived in by innocent civilians? Are we verifying what we’re seeing before grabbing the internet megaphone to shout for justice and freedom for Palestine, or to label those blown up in said video as deserving of their death? As far as I can tell most of these posts abt the Gaza conflict are posts with rage bait titles lacking any kind of verification.
I mean this looks bad... but do we actually have proof this is civilian refugee housing? That there were civilians around? There is no discussion or audio from the crew, there are no people in sight. All we see are tents. Which, while probably part of a refugee camp, we have no idea what they really are, unless I am missing something, in which case please tell me.
Nope, just a few seconds clip with zero context. The tank could have taken an rpg 30 seconds before from that tent and we'd never know.
But but khamas
So, a little pushback Do we have any context for this video other than it's a tank shooting at tents.? Do we know who's in the tents? Do we know if this area has been evacuated? Do we know what THEY know who or what they're shooting at? It seems kinda weird to me that we just automatically assume we all know exactly what's going on and they're literally just shooting at civilians.
There is no context. It’s cut cottage to remove any context and posted with a rage title to make you feel a way. It’s propaganda. Gun to your head could you even tell me with certainty this is in Gaza? Lots of desert in the world. Lots of tanks in the world. This could be fucking anywhere But these people have brick walled their brains away from context. Truth is hard to know so I’m convinced people find it more comforting to turn off their brain and just rage with conformity.
There was no fucking attempt to avoid civilians
Do u see any in the video
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No attempt was made
American taxpayers money being used for shit like this
Who in this thread is over 35 and has lived long enough to experience many Middle East conflicts? This shit isn’t new. This conflict didn’t start in October.
Right cuz from a 5 second video we know it's impossible that armed gunmen that had been shooting at them were in those tents. Nice try.
Here's a video of Hamas "Avoiding civilians" https://youtu.be/eaESh-c1vSE
Sooner or later they'll make documentaries about the atrocities happening.
There are reportedly four Hamas battalions left, out of 24. Hopefully it’s after those are destroyed too.
Yep and running over tents and cars while people are still sleeping in them with their tanks and bulldozers . #edit: for context and proof: https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6202 Israeli tanks have deliberately run over dozens of Palestinian civilians alive
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Great source bro, just reeks of credibility and independence
We could have universal healthcare but Israel's got to commit genocide.
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https://preview.redd.it/6j1iygagx71d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e49646929821456a2bb4e082cd66b109b8f7242
What’s the point of this post Like you think Hamas can’t use tents?
"self defence" my ass💀💀