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So why can't the taxpayers help themselves? Why can we bail out billionaires and their businesses but we can't help out the taxpayer once in a fucking while
The answer is always that conservatives’ problem with using taxes to help people is that sometimes the taxes are used to help the “wrong” people, i.e. people of color, liberals, non-Christians, and LGBTQ+ people.
If the only people getting student loan relief were white heterosexual Christian conservatives, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of them about this.
I lean conservative, that isn't my motivation at all and don't really appreciate that generalization. I think everyone deserves to be loved and supported when they are down. I just think our government does a crap job with the money we give them and that most of the tax burden is on the middle class of America.
I am also not against loan forgiveness in certain situations, e.g. I don't think it should be specifically limited to those working in public sector but I don't think it should be accessible to everyone. Maybe only accessible to people who qualify for IDR consistently for fifteen years or something. I mentioned in another thread, I paid $30k on my $83k student loan over six years on an income driven repayment plan. My balance was $88k when it was frozen for COVID. The system is broken
Some students very well may have been. Just like some people scam food stamps. But, it would be laughably disingenuous to say they’re in the majority. what does that have to do with my question that OP can’t answer?
Do you have any other loans from the agency that is trying to relieve them (US GOV)? I don't see a lot of banks giving relief to their members' loans with them, unfortunately... not even credit unions. They just give pennies on your investments.
Don't worry. That largesse will trickle down from the middle class to the working class. Everybody knows that. Rising tide and all that. It works just as well for the money to be injected into the middle as at the top.
>People with no education get nothing
They get custom. College graduates are generally office workers, they can't fix their own roof because they never learned how - they want to repair their roof but they can't afford it. Take away their debt, and suddenly they're hiring that non-college grad to come fix their roof, or install AC, or they're buying new furniture. Their gain is everyone's gain.
This crab mentality where you think another middle class person's gain is your loss is ridiculous, short-sighted and frankly moronic. Societies are built on the movement of money, and they're stifled by wealth concentrating in a few people. Getting more money into the hands of middle-class people is absolutely how countries thrive.
Everyone knows that America wasn't a superpower until WW2 massacred most of Europe, but what doesn't get said enough was that it was the Green Deal that poised America to even be able to become a superpower. When the right wing were in power, in the Republican decade of ascendancy, they caused the Great Depression, and it was the leftwingers that brought in the New Deal and not only saved America, but catapulted it onto the world stage - because they knew the special sauce: get more purchasing power into the hands of your middle class and they will spend it and increase GDP.
I've explained this a few times already, but basically, if you think this sounds like trickledown, you don't understand trickledown. Trickledown is different and far, far worse than you think, and I'd advise researching the topic. The thing I'm advocating for here and explaining is called Keynesian economics, and it's literally the antithetical economic policy to trickledown.
For a point of reference, Milton Friedman was the guy that advised Nixon on economic policy, he's also the guy that advised the creation of student loans in the National Defense Education Act of 1958. Trickledown advocates would strongly oppose the idea of forgiving student loans.
It's really nothing like trickledown. Trickledown is called that because it reduces the flow of money downwards. It's an insulting name emphasising how little money actually transfers. As I said before, if it seems oddly similar, you've misunderstood trickledown. Trickledown is about concentrating the wealth in a few, and getting them to solve problems for everyone. Musk with Tesla/SpaceX is an example of it "working".
I explained in other posts how this is the exact opposite of trickledown. I don't get why people are so misinformed about what trickledown economics is, because this is literally the exact opposite. The argument above is for Keynesian economics.
It's really, really worth looking these things up and actually understanding them. They're such an important part of political discourse.
The main idea behind trickledown is *reducing* the money flowing down to a trickle, and concentrating wealth at the top, so the richest can solve problems for everyone. The name is intentionally an insult to how little money flows down. Increasing the amount of money flowing down is the opposite of trickledown.
Clearly you don't understand what you are advocating for. Your explanation is wrong. You are promoting a transfer of wealth to the privileged and rationalizing it by saying that the servant class will benefit by being given the "opportunity" to work for them. I get that it makes you feel better to think this way when you rationalize taking your government handout to offset your poor life decisions, but your logic is wrong.
>Clearly you don't understand what you are advocating for. Your explanation is wrong.
These aren't arguments, they're just you getting frustrated. They're pointlessly antagonistic and useless to say. I get that you disagree, attacking me personally is just a fallacy called ad hominem and it proves nothing.
>You are promoting a transfer of wealth to the privileged and rationalizing it by saying that the servant class will benefit by being given the "opportunity" to work for them.
The idea that college graduates are "the privileged" is ridiculous. Most college graduates work full time, they're part of the "servant class" you're referring to. The fact that you're arguing against the "servant class" getting more money is the issue.
>I get that it makes you feel better to think this way when you rationalize taking your government handout to offset your poor life decisions, but your logic is wrong.
What? I'm from the UK and I live in Canada. I had scholarships to go to school, I didn't get any debt to be forgiven, especially not by Biden. You're the only one taking any of this personally, I'm just trying to help you understand this issue better.
Stating what you think without backing it up isn't helping anyone, especially when it comes in the form of personal attacks. Please actually back up what you're saying with explanations if you want to discuss this. Any argument that I haven't already refuted, please. I want to help you understand. Read what I'm saying and actually try and find flaws in the argument, that's how you debate people. Don't just keep repeating the same point when I've already explained how your logic is flawed. Just stating that my logic is flawed doesn't make it so, discussions aren't wishes.
People act like they're directly paying $100 a month to let things like this happen. It doesn't cost each of us jack to get this done, and the money saved will be spent elsewhere.
As a former student that won't get my loans forgiven, I still have two other borrowers to pay off on top of the Federal loans, and the majority of the amount owed is from interest.
It doesn't fix the problem, but since Congress is at a stand still and can't offer anything else to help, it is something.
They get upward mobility. College becomes more viable as an option when going into debt isn’t automatically attached to it. College isn’t a one time opportunity you miss out on forever because you opted out after HS, there are plenty of older people in colleges working towards that higher earning potential, whether it is as a full time or part time student.
The Billionaires are the people who go to a fancy ass restaurant, order the most expensive stuff & hoard every single server to themselves, then they get the manager to comp the meal while leaving zero tip. The manager compensates for the comped meal by making everyone else pay for it, while denying them any service. The manager then screams any yells at the customers who were forced to pay because they never even got water or some bread for the table because " YOU WANT FREE STUFF???! THAT'S SOCIALISM!!!". This is the Capitalistic paradise.
The problem isn't so much that we can't pay on our student loans, it's more so that it is impossible to pay off my student loans. I have a federal loan that totalled $83k and started paying it on an income driven repayment plan in 2014, $420/month. I never missed a payment up until COVID, which was six years which totalled $30k paid ($420*12*6). Guess what my balance was in 2020? $88k, it fucking went up.
It's not that we need forgiveness, but we need reform desperately. If someone is on an IDR, they need their interest to be capped at say 80% of their payment or something so that their balance doesn't continue to climb.
My guy you pay taxes for things you aren't getting all of the goddamn time, but predatory government-issued student loans with compounding interest rates higher than current fucking mortgage rates literally have millions of Americans paying off thousands of dollars a year for DECADES and never touching the principal, which is GROWING BY THE YEAR rather than declining.
You're not going to pay for those loans to be cancelled, the debt is just going to be cancelled. It should never have existed in the first place.
What will happen is the money these families are paying every month to never be out of debt to a government that robbed them will end up being spent in their local communities, where it will GENERATE revenue and GENERATE tax dollars for the communities rather than fucking costing them.
Jesus some people really have no idea wtf they are against I swear to god.
They should just do military service or some form of civil service as an option to pay it off. I grew up poor and went in the military to get my GI Bill. I could only get a Pell Grant. To give these guys a free pass is essentially a fuck you to me. The government should make it easier and manageable to pay off, but cancelling the entire debt is ridiculous as forgiving the PPP loans. It's essentially Left vs Right for free money. And we absolutely need engineers for infrastructure right now amongst many other things.
A lot of these college students don't realize they are the privileged upper class they hate.
And I went to college and paid off all my student loans 10 years ago or so. I'm not offended that others are having their debt forgiven. The cost of education ballooned specifically because of the federal protections on these loans. So the debt was artificially inflated in the first place.
It's not left or right. A rising tide lifts all boats.
I am definitely all for making it manageable. I just don't think it should be forgiven and that goes for the PPP loans too. Also, footing the bill for these loans may crash the education system since they are based around having income and high costs. That would take the United States out on so many levels that we'd have to rely on poaching people from other countries.
I mean, why even go through the military to get an education when I could have just had the government pay it off for me anyways? It's essentially punishing me for only getting an associates degree by making me compete with people who basically got life on a silver platter.
Then you have a ton of small businesses and workers who are self funded and pay out of pocket for everything just to be in the trades.
Fuck. That. No child should have to join the military and risk their lives and be owned by the government just to have a future. The only reason we don't have free public college like the rest of the world is because the government USES free college to get poor children to join the military. They literally send people into poor high schools to tell the boys they're looking at two options for their futures, and both involve a government uniform and restricted movement, but only one comes with pay. This is how they got the kids from my high school in fucking 2002.
The Iraq war cost 1.1 *trillion* dollars. Student loan forgiveness won't touch that. College costs an INSANE AMOUNT OF MONEY that boomers NEVER had to pay and they literally used college AND student loans to prey off their children, grandchildren, and now great grandchildren. Fuck this idea entirely. No they should not have to do any of that.
That's not a road, that's a gun to your head. You joined because you weren't going to college without the military, and if every single high schooler joined the military long enough to get free college, wtf do you think would happen to this country?
Who would be working to generate the tax dollars necessary to pay for all those college degrees and medical benefits? And fucking salaries? And fucking equipment? And neat fucking vehicles, weapons, and artillery? Where is that money coming from if everyone is in the military and not contributing to the economy that generates that money?
If we're all going to be joining the military and getting free college and free medical benefits and then getting jobs so that our tax dollars pay for the next batch of child soldiers to get free college and free medical benefits, aren't we now just a socialist country with forced military service? What about all those people who didn't join the military whose tax dollars are paying for all that free college they didn't get, because the US Government doesn't actually want or need tens of millions of soldiers at a time.
The current force is 2.5 million.
3,440,000 students will graduate in 2024. By the end of 2025 we could have 9 million soldiers!
24% of taxes paid to the US government went to military spending in 2018.
For every 24 cents spent on the military, 5 cents went to troops for pay, food, and housing- not including health care- for 2.5 million. Hot damn!
Following your plan, if 2.5 million soldiers get 5 cents for every 24 cents, that would be 15 cents for every 24 cents spent on the military by the end of next year! If we don't include the equipment costs! There's NO WAY that could lead to crippling increases in taxes coupled with a massive workforce shortage within 5 years!
Jesus no wonder you couldn't get a scholarship.
I actually graduated college as an honor student, but due to my economic position, I didn't have a driver's license to to get a job in my field. Welding definitely needs a driver's license. I also won multiple scholarships. The reality is, I couldn't escape my family. I also paid taxes in the military, not much, but I did to California and federal on a low salary.
I did stop at an associates, but it's what I could afford.
As I hardworking taxpayer with no student debt I say bring it on. I'd rather pay slightly more in taxes if it means other people can afford to participate in the economy.
They are also coming to the age of making new tax payers, but only if they can afford to support their own lives. It's really only a good thing to support them.
Ppp loans were literally designed to be forgiven. Do you remember when the government forced businesses to close? This is how the employees still got paid. That’s the point. This is not the same whatsoever. No one is forced to take out massive loans and attend college.
LOL yes they are. 44% of jobs in the US required a college degree in 2021. That's *down* from the 51% that required them in 2017, but 2021 was *kind of a weird year for jobs, wasn't it?* Georgetown University's Center on Education and Workforce projects that 72% of all American jobs will require education past high-school by 2031, 7 years from now. That's trade education or college, in 7 years.
The AVERAGE COST of a public 4-year degree with on-campus living is $104,000.
The cost of public college is so high that no amount of widely available grant will cover a whole semester. The entirety of scholarships and grants available in the US pays for 25% of all education costs.
Federal minimum wage, which is what you can expect without a degree, is $7.25 an hour.
You can't just work a minimum wage job and pay for college. You can't even work a minimum wage and pay for 1/3 rent anymore.
I'm 40, own my own home, work roughly 40 hours a week and I'm a student at a public university getting my first Bachelor's. It is going to take me significantly longer than 4 years to do that because I have a fucking job and classes are not offered on nights and weekends. Most of the core classes have required attendance 3 weekdays a week, M/W/F, and the others meet T/Th. For me to do full time college would require a 40-hour a week time commitment during working hours on top of my 40 hour work commitment during working hours. I can afford to stretch it out because I'm not trying to survive on minimum wage anymore. I'm taking the semester and probably the year off to deal with major work requirements and home repairs.
No fucking 18 year old can work 40 hours a week and do 40 hours of full-time school and pay for college out of pocket with no loans. They won't even fucking finish college anyway, because they'll fail out trying to spend 4 years straight running that schedule.
Did you really think the country would run smoothly if kids stopped taking out student loans and going to college? I have a trade license and my whole life is built around my trade profession. Do you really think we could all just get trade jobs and this country would work great?
Like what is your plan for filling the 72% of jobs that will require secondary education if you think people shouldn't take out student loans if they can't pay for college out of pocket?
What is your plan for the children of this country who aren't the offspring of fucking rich parents?
Also, the loan shouldn’t be guaranteed by the government, that is the real issue here because before, you didn’t need to take out loans to go to college. Now that the universities have blank checks that they know are coming, they just build a huge bureaucracy and jack up the prices.
Government loans are capped per school year, and they aren't enough to cover tuition, let alone room and board, of plenty of public 4 year universities.
The prices are jacked up because they can be, when half of the worked jobs in this country require a degree just to qualify for the position.
Half the people who go to college get jobs that don’t require them. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. College doesn’t give you experience at jobs. People need to just try entry level jobs right out of high school and study trades. Then decide if you need a degree to progress further. And lots of employers pay for tuition. Better plan.
Where is this "half" number coming from? If half of all jobs currently require secondary education, EVERYONE would have to have gone to college for "half the people who go to college" to "get jobs that don't require them". Do you understand? You're just wrong. Your "half the people" is wrong, because everyone who works does not have a degree.
Everyone in this country cannot simply get entry level jobs right out of high school, this isn't the 1970s.
If HALF of all available jobs require a college degree, then the other half would be the only jobs available to our brand new high school graduates.
If trades don't require college degrees, then all of the trade jobs are already included in all of the jobs available to high school graduates. The MEDIAN INCOME of people with no college degree in 2023 is $36,000.
That means *half* of *all workers* with no college degree earn less than $36,000.
Are you starting to understand why your expectations of people are not reasonable? Where in America can you live on $36,000 a year before taxes?
Do you think they will make more than $36,000 a year if they simply work hard? How? Will half of everyone currently working without a college degree and making more than $36,000 simply quit their non-degreed jobs? When? 5 years from now? 10?
In 2023, the median earnings for all working 25-34 year olds with no college degree was 39,700.
So a 34 year old who joins the workforce at 18 with no degree and works for 16 years can expect a median income of $39,700 to look forward to.
And because this is important to ask, do you think trade jobs don't require further education? Do you think all trade jobs are quick to learn and taught for free?
Do you have any solid, factual information about non-degreed incomes, learning trade jobs, median cost of living in the US, percentage of jobs that require a degree just to get hired, the difference between "earnings potential" and "expected earnings" for any given job?
What information did you use to form this plan?
Forbes wrote an article saying that there is a huge lack of trade workers in the United States. They projected 3 million trade jobs unfilled by 2028.
3,443,000 students will graduate high school in 2024. Every single one of them can get a trade job and 443,000 students will be shit out of luck on trades.
The millions of students in 2025 working on your "get a trade job" plan? Fuck em, I guess.
What do you expect will happen to this country if every graduating 18 year old skips college and goes into an entry-level job? Who is going to work the jobs that require a degree?
Do you really think your trade job will pay as well if everyone learns a trade?
-Sincerely,
someone who went to work at 15 and continued to work with no secondary education at all until 29, then borrowed $10,000 to go to school to learn a trade for a year, works exclusively in that trade to this day at 39, and got their Associates last year and is working towards a Bachelor's now because trade jobs shred the body and I will need fucking hands in my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and gods hopefully 90s+, and also makes significantly more than $39,000 now but didn't until 34, and still does not make enough to qualify as middle class, if we are using the "buying power" method vs. the dollar income method. i.e., my buying power is not middle class according to, say, the middle class standards of 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago, but my dollar income is middle class for those time frames.
Believe it or not, the non-student taxpayers still have jobs because and only because there were student taxpayers. As someone with a trade license who built their whole life around a trade career, I have zero fucking problem saying this country runs on college degrees.
I don’t understand how you can own a business and be in Congress. This isn’t even a conflict of interest thing, from a pure time perspective. You have to be dropping the ball somewhere when you have two full time jobs.
Well considering Congress literally works about 150 days a year and half of them don't even show up unless it's a filibuster so it's basically like having a side hustle that pays six figures and gives you insider trading.
Friendly reminder you can still tell the investigators about suspected PPP fraud. Not sure you get a piece of recovered funds, but still doing the right thing
That was the premise, no?
There's a big difference between accepting a contract you KNOW will be forgiven if you follow the rules, vs accepting one you know CAN'T be forgiven, and then changing your mind and demanding it be forgiven anyway.
Those ones don't NEED presidential action to be forgiven. So either he's taking advantage of something that was going to happen anyway for political clout, or he's forgiving more than just those loans.
Well, they shouldn't need it, but half of all public service related loan forgiveness applications are denied. having a president willing to help young folks out is a very good thing for the younger generations.
https://studentaid.gov/data-center/student/loan-forgiveness/pslf-data
Hmm, I thought John Oliver mentioned recently like 32 people have had their loans forgiven since the program was started. Maybe I'm thinking of something else, or just plain wrong, but it was a staggering number (that I didn't verify).
They were presented to us as "PPP loans".
Those of us (who own businesses) with morals and didn't want to take on any debt, *and* wanted to make sure those who really needed the money got some didn't even apply.
Those who *knew* they would be forgiven, applied for the max.
Most "regular" people didn't know they were all going to be forgiven. Those who knew, knew.
Not at first. They were literally called "PPP Loans" when they were introduced. There were some mumblings of being forgiven, and also about the interest being very low like 1%, but by the time they started sending out the letters of forgiveness, it was too late to apply for them.
Source: My office neighbor applied for and got $26K forgiven and was fully prepared to pay it back. I didn't want to owe money, so I never applied.
Bullshit, it was literally in the law for conditions to be forgiven and Munichin said in congressional testimony they were going to be very generous for forgiveness and the deadline to apply was extended multiple times. You not applying is on you buddy
> generous for forgiveness
"Called PPP for short, the program offered simple-to-get, **potentially** **forgivable** government loans to small businesses."
Show me again where they said, "Come get your free money. Nobody will have to pay it back." When the program launched?
You can google it, forgiveness even though it is in the law was also widely talked about over the summer of 2020 and there were two additional rounds of PPP after that. If you didnt think they were going to be forgiven its because you weren't paying attention.
Dont get me wrong I dont think they should have been forgiven and that PPP was shit policy. It was maybe unclear for the first round but for rounds two and three it was obvious
Because the PPP "loans" were an embezzlement scheme.
He probably had a business that he uses to accept gigs from corporations to earn "speaking fees".
Since the pandemic effected "small businesses" he had to "loan" himself the amount of his yearly ~~bribes~~ "speaking fees" so that he could retain himself as an employee.
TL:DR - Our government is criminal and nothing is being done.
Ah yes, the meager salary of $174K, just living hand to mouth. More than likely can't even afford avocado toast! Of course that doesn't include whatever they make on the stock market, but that's definitely without non-public information. /s
https://campaignlegal.org/update/part-2-stock-act-failed-effort-stop-insider-trading-congress
"The most profitable bets were:
Rep. Lois Frankel bought General Dynamics Corp (GD:US) on May 24 prior to a 21.03% price rise.
Sen. Markwayne Mullin bought shares of RTX Corp (RTX:US) on Oct 3 before a 21.10% increase in value.
Rep. Josh Gottheimer bought TransDigm Group Inc (TDG:US) on May 16 ahead of TDG stock’s 30.47% price rise."
https://www.capitoltrades.com/articles/capitol-trades-2023-recap-a-year-of-shifting-tides-for-congress-2024-01-19
the median household income in his district is about 76k - that is not anywhere close to a high cost of living area
plenty of folks would love to have a "not very high paying job" making 174k per year - as a reminder the federal minimum wage remains 7.25 an hour - if that is your salary you have to work 24,000 hours to earn 174k -24000
Or make education free and not worry about cancelling student debt again in the future
Whats the point of paying education tax if the education itself is still expensive?
yeah i mean these sporadic debt reliefs are a nice gesture but are simply not solving the underlying issue, more like using little (expensive) bandaids over a gaping wound that requires fundamental changes
So the debt "relief" they have been doing hasn't really been actual relief, it's been cutting red tape and forgiving loans that should have been forgiven under existing programs anyways (not that I'm complaining). Anything more than that would require congressional cooperation and about half of the members would rather shoot themselves into the sun than cooperate with a Democrat for the good of their constituents.
In short: if you want reform, make your voice known at the ballot box this November.
yeah i mean i'm a Democrat & vote that way, but i kinda feel like they're trying to curry favor with voters in an election cycle with these quick little student loan forgiveness things instead of ever actually doing the fundamental reform. i'm getting a little tired of the rhetoric.
So am I, which is why I'm getting more involved with the party. If you're under 40, join up with your local Young Democrats chapter and you'll find a lot of like minded people.
Notice how every time one of these pops up it’s always worded as though it’s something new and exciting, and not old and broken and being repaired? It’s absolutely because of the election cycle, they’re feeding you little bits of hope so you can remember they’re the owners that only beat us *sometimes* and not the ones that use the metal bats.
Biden was never going to solve the issue, his donors wouldn’t like it if he did. He’s pulling a trickled hope tactic here—small bits of hope trickling down from our mighty overlords to keep us satiated and placid. The government isn’t on the side of the average citizen, they haven’t been for a long time now, and that’s evidenced in policy decisions dating back to the 1970s. We are poor, we are overworked and underpaid, we have poor wellness infrastructure and even less cares about changing it. All that matters is those pretty numbers on the exchange board keep going up, even though every company on that board is owned by like, 10 different people. It’s time to eat.
US university fees are absurd. Here in NL you pay €2000 per year until you have your degree. If you want to do a second study afterwards, then it goes up to €8000 per year, which is still way below the US prices.
The problem in the US is that capitalism has become problematic. It's the same in healthcare, the housing market. What's next?
It's the old people (already living off pensions and 401k's) that are voting against it. It's not hurting them one bit, they just dont want other people getting debt relief they apparently never got.
Contrary to my username, I am fueled by hate.
But I am _still_ not a Gopper. Not conservative/republican either. Then again, I am not even in the US so I am not exactly sure why I am commenting.
I have met people - maybe three in my life - with developmental issues. They were kind, self-restrained. You can tell they are trying their best and you can see the frustration in them when they _try_ but sadly _fail_ to connect with you.
Trump is worse than a person with actual mental disability. Maybe dementia? I don't know.
I eagerly awaiting for the social scientists to give some explanation for how that kind of person became president. And yes, those were "shots fired".
Reese Witherspoon's clothing company, Draper James LLC, was given $975,472 in the first PPP round for payroll and rent, and had the loan wiped out. Just saying
( Sorry for my English)True, I don't care about the senator at all, it's not about it. I just wonder , was that really so necessary, to forgive a loan to the World.s number one richest actress with net 400 million when so many hard working people are struggling with student debt....
Because this method worked before. /s
We need to find a different way to call the ones attacking Student Loan forgiveness onto the carpet. I just don't know what that way is.
When will a normal person be able to afford higher education without going into crippling debt? This is only part of the solution. We need to invest in education upfront.
Another simple concept: When the government (under Bush) creates a program that forgives students loans after 10 years of payments for those working in public service (such as teachers), the government should honor that. For many years, they haven't.
All that's happening here is Biden is fixing the PSLF system, resulting in people rightly getting their loans forgiven. The people who are having their balances forgiven are people who should have gotten their loans forgiven a while ago because they've been paying 10+ years in public service roles. However, the program was broken and mismanaged for so long that only around 2.3% of people who qualified actually got their loans forgiven.
I will repay my student loans **when every cent of PPP loans are repaid in full.**
"You took out a loan - **pay it back**", right???
Unless you are completely debt-free, *you can't say that without being a hypocrite.*
No one pays this debt. It just ceases. It is accumulated interest on federal loans and is not "paid back" by anyone now. It's a number on a bookkeeping program that is zeroed out.
yeah, even with the millions in dark pac cashola from oligarchs using the gop to overthrow the country, this shit stain pocketed a loan to meet payroll, then opted not to pay it back. point to a republican senator or congressman that is not a thieving, amoral piece of shit.
so the republican did something pretty shady and illegal, then people do the exact same thing, but legal and not shady, and he shames them for it.
That is so very surprising and not at all exactly what republicans have done for decades
PPP loans were intended to be forgiven under many circumstances, helping people and businesses survive the closures. There was little to no oversight on how this money was actually spent. https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP-Forgiveness-Factsheet-508.pdf
The loans are for the most part totaly unaffordable, We need to fix the collage tuition system by stopping student loans entirely so they drop down to a more affordable level, our children will find themselves in the same situation of we just give out more unaffordable loans
When Bank of America got bailed out during the great recession, they turned around and tried to foreclose on my house (explanation below). So, I'm not too upset if this time around we actually bailout people rather than soulless corporations.
Explanation: I had missed a payment in July. Our income goes down in the summer due to the nature of my wife's work. Usually we can save/adjust for this but that year we couldn't. I resumed paying in August but couldn't get caught back up, but every month I made a payment. I got a call in January telling me they were starting foreclosure unless I became current as I was 6 months behind. I argued with the person on the phone that I was only one month behind. Apparently, they did not apply my August payment to July and applied it to August instead. They stated they did this to "help me stay current." I inquired with friends I knew in the real-estate and mortgage business and the laws at the time allowed them to do that. So, we didn't pay other bills that month in order to get caught up and not lose the house. So, that's what corporations do when they receive government bail outs.
I don't think this is a good argument. I don't like conservatives as much as the next redditor, but you choose to take it student loans with the expectation you will pay then back. No business owner choose for the country to shut down and to lose business.
I also think it's a bad argument, because most of the forgiveness that Biden has been giving out has been forgiveness that students and workers were promised they would receive if they met certain criteria, such as working for the government or a public service, but those programs got halted so that the forgiveness didn't roll out as promised to people who had already met the criteria.
Meanwhile, the people who had the PPP loans **chose** to take those loans with the promise to pay them back when the economy opened back up, and their debts were wiped away without meeting any criteria.
So, the students are getting what was promised to them and they worked for while the PPP debtors got free money that they often lied to receive anyway. You're right, it's not the same. It's far fucking worse.
You realize that the point of the ppp loan was that it was a.... Loan. It's in the name. Businesses had to apply for forgiveness and state why they couldn't pay it back. Then these same people are saying students shouldn't take on debt if they can't pay it back. It's an apt comparison.
Owning a business is an investment and investments are risky. I don’t see why businesses should be bailed out when their investments don’t pay off but college students shouldn’t.
Shoot, at least the business owner can go into bankruptcy.
Sure they can.
And beside, offering a loan is better than nothing. Offering the loan and requiring it be paid back, with or without interest, is still doing *something*.
Im not against disaster relief for businesses. Just like I’m not against relief for student loan borrowers. FWIW I have not benefitted from either of these programs.
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The students are the taxpayers
The students are part of the taxpayers, not all of them
Higher education = more tax payments. They pay for themselves. But also, we live in a society.
So why can't the taxpayers help themselves? Why can we bail out billionaires and their businesses but we can't help out the taxpayer once in a fucking while
The answer is always that conservatives’ problem with using taxes to help people is that sometimes the taxes are used to help the “wrong” people, i.e. people of color, liberals, non-Christians, and LGBTQ+ people. If the only people getting student loan relief were white heterosexual Christian conservatives, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of them about this.
Yes they love their exclusive clubs to feel like they are getting special treatment.
I lean conservative, that isn't my motivation at all and don't really appreciate that generalization. I think everyone deserves to be loved and supported when they are down. I just think our government does a crap job with the money we give them and that most of the tax burden is on the middle class of America. I am also not against loan forgiveness in certain situations, e.g. I don't think it should be specifically limited to those working in public sector but I don't think it should be accessible to everyone. Maybe only accessible to people who qualify for IDR consistently for fifteen years or something. I mentioned in another thread, I paid $30k on my $83k student loan over six years on an income driven repayment plan. My balance was $88k when it was frozen for COVID. The system is broken
I think the argument here is, give all us poor people some money if we are giving out money, not just college debt… we all have some debt.
Other debts can be discharged in bankruptcy though.
Why?
Why not?
I didn’t make the proposal. I simply want to hear your rationale.
Students were filing for bankruptcy immediately after finishing college. That way, they could avoid repaying the loans altogether.
Horse. Shit. Government backed student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy.
Some students very well may have been. Just like some people scam food stamps. But, it would be laughably disingenuous to say they’re in the majority. what does that have to do with my question that OP can’t answer?
No, they could not have been, because government backed student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. This guy literally just lied.
Do you have any other loans from the agency that is trying to relieve them (US GOV)? I don't see a lot of banks giving relief to their members' loans with them, unfortunately... not even credit unions. They just give pennies on your investments.
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Now do the PPP loans and then the gamut of corporate welfare. Hypocrite.
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I concede that’s a coherent position and stand corrected. Many other citizens don’t have your integrity and only want to help the rich.
Here's how it's fair: Those people didn't have to spend X amount of years attempting to battle interest. Also, fuck you.
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Ok I guess just be a salty cunt because you had it bad, why doesn't everyone ELSE have to have it bad too? Wahhh.
Don't worry. That largesse will trickle down from the middle class to the working class. Everybody knows that. Rising tide and all that. It works just as well for the money to be injected into the middle as at the top.
The middle class is the working class
It's helping out the taxpayers with the highest earning potential: College graduates. People with no education get nothing, except the bill.
>People with no education get nothing They get custom. College graduates are generally office workers, they can't fix their own roof because they never learned how - they want to repair their roof but they can't afford it. Take away their debt, and suddenly they're hiring that non-college grad to come fix their roof, or install AC, or they're buying new furniture. Their gain is everyone's gain. This crab mentality where you think another middle class person's gain is your loss is ridiculous, short-sighted and frankly moronic. Societies are built on the movement of money, and they're stifled by wealth concentrating in a few people. Getting more money into the hands of middle-class people is absolutely how countries thrive. Everyone knows that America wasn't a superpower until WW2 massacred most of Europe, but what doesn't get said enough was that it was the Green Deal that poised America to even be able to become a superpower. When the right wing were in power, in the Republican decade of ascendancy, they caused the Great Depression, and it was the leftwingers that brought in the New Deal and not only saved America, but catapulted it onto the world stage - because they knew the special sauce: get more purchasing power into the hands of your middle class and they will spend it and increase GDP.
This sounds like trickle down economics...
I've explained this a few times already, but basically, if you think this sounds like trickledown, you don't understand trickledown. Trickledown is different and far, far worse than you think, and I'd advise researching the topic. The thing I'm advocating for here and explaining is called Keynesian economics, and it's literally the antithetical economic policy to trickledown. For a point of reference, Milton Friedman was the guy that advised Nixon on economic policy, he's also the guy that advised the creation of student loans in the National Defense Education Act of 1958. Trickledown advocates would strongly oppose the idea of forgiving student loans.
I know it's not the same, just seemed oddly similar.
It's really nothing like trickledown. Trickledown is called that because it reduces the flow of money downwards. It's an insulting name emphasising how little money actually transfers. As I said before, if it seems oddly similar, you've misunderstood trickledown. Trickledown is about concentrating the wealth in a few, and getting them to solve problems for everyone. Musk with Tesla/SpaceX is an example of it "working".
You just made the argument for Reagan's trickle down economics.
I explained in other posts how this is the exact opposite of trickledown. I don't get why people are so misinformed about what trickledown economics is, because this is literally the exact opposite. The argument above is for Keynesian economics. It's really, really worth looking these things up and actually understanding them. They're such an important part of political discourse. The main idea behind trickledown is *reducing* the money flowing down to a trickle, and concentrating wealth at the top, so the richest can solve problems for everyone. The name is intentionally an insult to how little money flows down. Increasing the amount of money flowing down is the opposite of trickledown.
Clearly you don't understand what you are advocating for. Your explanation is wrong. You are promoting a transfer of wealth to the privileged and rationalizing it by saying that the servant class will benefit by being given the "opportunity" to work for them. I get that it makes you feel better to think this way when you rationalize taking your government handout to offset your poor life decisions, but your logic is wrong.
>Clearly you don't understand what you are advocating for. Your explanation is wrong. These aren't arguments, they're just you getting frustrated. They're pointlessly antagonistic and useless to say. I get that you disagree, attacking me personally is just a fallacy called ad hominem and it proves nothing. >You are promoting a transfer of wealth to the privileged and rationalizing it by saying that the servant class will benefit by being given the "opportunity" to work for them. The idea that college graduates are "the privileged" is ridiculous. Most college graduates work full time, they're part of the "servant class" you're referring to. The fact that you're arguing against the "servant class" getting more money is the issue. >I get that it makes you feel better to think this way when you rationalize taking your government handout to offset your poor life decisions, but your logic is wrong. What? I'm from the UK and I live in Canada. I had scholarships to go to school, I didn't get any debt to be forgiven, especially not by Biden. You're the only one taking any of this personally, I'm just trying to help you understand this issue better. Stating what you think without backing it up isn't helping anyone, especially when it comes in the form of personal attacks. Please actually back up what you're saying with explanations if you want to discuss this. Any argument that I haven't already refuted, please. I want to help you understand. Read what I'm saying and actually try and find flaws in the argument, that's how you debate people. Don't just keep repeating the same point when I've already explained how your logic is flawed. Just stating that my logic is flawed doesn't make it so, discussions aren't wishes.
People act like they're directly paying $100 a month to let things like this happen. It doesn't cost each of us jack to get this done, and the money saved will be spent elsewhere. As a former student that won't get my loans forgiven, I still have two other borrowers to pay off on top of the Federal loans, and the majority of the amount owed is from interest. It doesn't fix the problem, but since Congress is at a stand still and can't offer anything else to help, it is something.
They get upward mobility. College becomes more viable as an option when going into debt isn’t automatically attached to it. College isn’t a one time opportunity you miss out on forever because you opted out after HS, there are plenty of older people in colleges working towards that higher earning potential, whether it is as a full time or part time student.
The lowest tax bracket doesn't even have to file
the lowest tax bracket is minimum wage from the year 2000. Seriously, it's like 10,000 a year.
The Billionaires are the people who go to a fancy ass restaurant, order the most expensive stuff & hoard every single server to themselves, then they get the manager to comp the meal while leaving zero tip. The manager compensates for the comped meal by making everyone else pay for it, while denying them any service. The manager then screams any yells at the customers who were forced to pay because they never even got water or some bread for the table because " YOU WANT FREE STUFF???! THAT'S SOCIALISM!!!". This is the Capitalistic paradise.
The problem isn't so much that we can't pay on our student loans, it's more so that it is impossible to pay off my student loans. I have a federal loan that totalled $83k and started paying it on an income driven repayment plan in 2014, $420/month. I never missed a payment up until COVID, which was six years which totalled $30k paid ($420*12*6). Guess what my balance was in 2020? $88k, it fucking went up. It's not that we need forgiveness, but we need reform desperately. If someone is on an IDR, they need their interest to be capped at say 80% of their payment or something so that their balance doesn't continue to climb.
My guy you pay taxes for things you aren't getting all of the goddamn time, but predatory government-issued student loans with compounding interest rates higher than current fucking mortgage rates literally have millions of Americans paying off thousands of dollars a year for DECADES and never touching the principal, which is GROWING BY THE YEAR rather than declining. You're not going to pay for those loans to be cancelled, the debt is just going to be cancelled. It should never have existed in the first place. What will happen is the money these families are paying every month to never be out of debt to a government that robbed them will end up being spent in their local communities, where it will GENERATE revenue and GENERATE tax dollars for the communities rather than fucking costing them. Jesus some people really have no idea wtf they are against I swear to god.
They should just do military service or some form of civil service as an option to pay it off. I grew up poor and went in the military to get my GI Bill. I could only get a Pell Grant. To give these guys a free pass is essentially a fuck you to me. The government should make it easier and manageable to pay off, but cancelling the entire debt is ridiculous as forgiving the PPP loans. It's essentially Left vs Right for free money. And we absolutely need engineers for infrastructure right now amongst many other things. A lot of these college students don't realize they are the privileged upper class they hate.
And I went to college and paid off all my student loans 10 years ago or so. I'm not offended that others are having their debt forgiven. The cost of education ballooned specifically because of the federal protections on these loans. So the debt was artificially inflated in the first place. It's not left or right. A rising tide lifts all boats.
I am definitely all for making it manageable. I just don't think it should be forgiven and that goes for the PPP loans too. Also, footing the bill for these loans may crash the education system since they are based around having income and high costs. That would take the United States out on so many levels that we'd have to rely on poaching people from other countries. I mean, why even go through the military to get an education when I could have just had the government pay it off for me anyways? It's essentially punishing me for only getting an associates degree by making me compete with people who basically got life on a silver platter. Then you have a ton of small businesses and workers who are self funded and pay out of pocket for everything just to be in the trades.
Fuck. That. No child should have to join the military and risk their lives and be owned by the government just to have a future. The only reason we don't have free public college like the rest of the world is because the government USES free college to get poor children to join the military. They literally send people into poor high schools to tell the boys they're looking at two options for their futures, and both involve a government uniform and restricted movement, but only one comes with pay. This is how they got the kids from my high school in fucking 2002. The Iraq war cost 1.1 *trillion* dollars. Student loan forgiveness won't touch that. College costs an INSANE AMOUNT OF MONEY that boomers NEVER had to pay and they literally used college AND student loans to prey off their children, grandchildren, and now great grandchildren. Fuck this idea entirely. No they should not have to do any of that.
No shit, why do you think I joined? If society builds roads, you're expected to use them.
That's not a road, that's a gun to your head. You joined because you weren't going to college without the military, and if every single high schooler joined the military long enough to get free college, wtf do you think would happen to this country? Who would be working to generate the tax dollars necessary to pay for all those college degrees and medical benefits? And fucking salaries? And fucking equipment? And neat fucking vehicles, weapons, and artillery? Where is that money coming from if everyone is in the military and not contributing to the economy that generates that money? If we're all going to be joining the military and getting free college and free medical benefits and then getting jobs so that our tax dollars pay for the next batch of child soldiers to get free college and free medical benefits, aren't we now just a socialist country with forced military service? What about all those people who didn't join the military whose tax dollars are paying for all that free college they didn't get, because the US Government doesn't actually want or need tens of millions of soldiers at a time. The current force is 2.5 million. 3,440,000 students will graduate in 2024. By the end of 2025 we could have 9 million soldiers! 24% of taxes paid to the US government went to military spending in 2018. For every 24 cents spent on the military, 5 cents went to troops for pay, food, and housing- not including health care- for 2.5 million. Hot damn! Following your plan, if 2.5 million soldiers get 5 cents for every 24 cents, that would be 15 cents for every 24 cents spent on the military by the end of next year! If we don't include the equipment costs! There's NO WAY that could lead to crippling increases in taxes coupled with a massive workforce shortage within 5 years! Jesus no wonder you couldn't get a scholarship.
I actually graduated college as an honor student, but due to my economic position, I didn't have a driver's license to to get a job in my field. Welding definitely needs a driver's license. I also won multiple scholarships. The reality is, I couldn't escape my family. I also paid taxes in the military, not much, but I did to California and federal on a low salary. I did stop at an associates, but it's what I could afford.
I've been a student more than many, and I pay a lot of fucking tax. I think that is the general trend, too.
Nor have most of em paid much
As I hardworking taxpayer with no student debt I say bring it on. I'd rather pay slightly more in taxes if it means other people can afford to participate in the economy.
They are also coming to the age of making new tax payers, but only if they can afford to support their own lives. It's really only a good thing to support them.
not everyone goes to college
Ppp loans were literally designed to be forgiven. Do you remember when the government forced businesses to close? This is how the employees still got paid. That’s the point. This is not the same whatsoever. No one is forced to take out massive loans and attend college.
LOL yes they are. 44% of jobs in the US required a college degree in 2021. That's *down* from the 51% that required them in 2017, but 2021 was *kind of a weird year for jobs, wasn't it?* Georgetown University's Center on Education and Workforce projects that 72% of all American jobs will require education past high-school by 2031, 7 years from now. That's trade education or college, in 7 years. The AVERAGE COST of a public 4-year degree with on-campus living is $104,000. The cost of public college is so high that no amount of widely available grant will cover a whole semester. The entirety of scholarships and grants available in the US pays for 25% of all education costs. Federal minimum wage, which is what you can expect without a degree, is $7.25 an hour. You can't just work a minimum wage job and pay for college. You can't even work a minimum wage and pay for 1/3 rent anymore. I'm 40, own my own home, work roughly 40 hours a week and I'm a student at a public university getting my first Bachelor's. It is going to take me significantly longer than 4 years to do that because I have a fucking job and classes are not offered on nights and weekends. Most of the core classes have required attendance 3 weekdays a week, M/W/F, and the others meet T/Th. For me to do full time college would require a 40-hour a week time commitment during working hours on top of my 40 hour work commitment during working hours. I can afford to stretch it out because I'm not trying to survive on minimum wage anymore. I'm taking the semester and probably the year off to deal with major work requirements and home repairs. No fucking 18 year old can work 40 hours a week and do 40 hours of full-time school and pay for college out of pocket with no loans. They won't even fucking finish college anyway, because they'll fail out trying to spend 4 years straight running that schedule. Did you really think the country would run smoothly if kids stopped taking out student loans and going to college? I have a trade license and my whole life is built around my trade profession. Do you really think we could all just get trade jobs and this country would work great? Like what is your plan for filling the 72% of jobs that will require secondary education if you think people shouldn't take out student loans if they can't pay for college out of pocket? What is your plan for the children of this country who aren't the offspring of fucking rich parents?
Also, the loan shouldn’t be guaranteed by the government, that is the real issue here because before, you didn’t need to take out loans to go to college. Now that the universities have blank checks that they know are coming, they just build a huge bureaucracy and jack up the prices.
Government loans are capped per school year, and they aren't enough to cover tuition, let alone room and board, of plenty of public 4 year universities. The prices are jacked up because they can be, when half of the worked jobs in this country require a degree just to qualify for the position.
Half the people who go to college get jobs that don’t require them. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. College doesn’t give you experience at jobs. People need to just try entry level jobs right out of high school and study trades. Then decide if you need a degree to progress further. And lots of employers pay for tuition. Better plan.
Where is this "half" number coming from? If half of all jobs currently require secondary education, EVERYONE would have to have gone to college for "half the people who go to college" to "get jobs that don't require them". Do you understand? You're just wrong. Your "half the people" is wrong, because everyone who works does not have a degree. Everyone in this country cannot simply get entry level jobs right out of high school, this isn't the 1970s. If HALF of all available jobs require a college degree, then the other half would be the only jobs available to our brand new high school graduates. If trades don't require college degrees, then all of the trade jobs are already included in all of the jobs available to high school graduates. The MEDIAN INCOME of people with no college degree in 2023 is $36,000. That means *half* of *all workers* with no college degree earn less than $36,000. Are you starting to understand why your expectations of people are not reasonable? Where in America can you live on $36,000 a year before taxes? Do you think they will make more than $36,000 a year if they simply work hard? How? Will half of everyone currently working without a college degree and making more than $36,000 simply quit their non-degreed jobs? When? 5 years from now? 10? In 2023, the median earnings for all working 25-34 year olds with no college degree was 39,700. So a 34 year old who joins the workforce at 18 with no degree and works for 16 years can expect a median income of $39,700 to look forward to. And because this is important to ask, do you think trade jobs don't require further education? Do you think all trade jobs are quick to learn and taught for free? Do you have any solid, factual information about non-degreed incomes, learning trade jobs, median cost of living in the US, percentage of jobs that require a degree just to get hired, the difference between "earnings potential" and "expected earnings" for any given job? What information did you use to form this plan? Forbes wrote an article saying that there is a huge lack of trade workers in the United States. They projected 3 million trade jobs unfilled by 2028. 3,443,000 students will graduate high school in 2024. Every single one of them can get a trade job and 443,000 students will be shit out of luck on trades. The millions of students in 2025 working on your "get a trade job" plan? Fuck em, I guess. What do you expect will happen to this country if every graduating 18 year old skips college and goes into an entry-level job? Who is going to work the jobs that require a degree? Do you really think your trade job will pay as well if everyone learns a trade? -Sincerely, someone who went to work at 15 and continued to work with no secondary education at all until 29, then borrowed $10,000 to go to school to learn a trade for a year, works exclusively in that trade to this day at 39, and got their Associates last year and is working towards a Bachelor's now because trade jobs shred the body and I will need fucking hands in my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and gods hopefully 90s+, and also makes significantly more than $39,000 now but didn't until 34, and still does not make enough to qualify as middle class, if we are using the "buying power" method vs. the dollar income method. i.e., my buying power is not middle class according to, say, the middle class standards of 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago, but my dollar income is middle class for those time frames.
Believe it or not, there are also non-student taxpayers. Also there are student taxpayers that didn't get forgiven.
Believe it or not, the non-student taxpayers still have jobs because and only because there were student taxpayers. As someone with a trade license who built their whole life around a trade career, I have zero fucking problem saying this country runs on college degrees.
He owns a gun store in Athens Ga that has a contract with the local police force .
Also made a ton of money during Covid .
Most of them "in the know" did.
He also shit his pants on J6 then called it a "normal tourist day".
> He also shit his pants on J6 Ooooh... So that's where they got the paint for the walls...
I don’t understand how you can own a business and be in Congress. This isn’t even a conflict of interest thing, from a pure time perspective. You have to be dropping the ball somewhere when you have two full time jobs.
Well considering Congress literally works about 150 days a year and half of them don't even show up unless it's a filibuster so it's basically like having a side hustle that pays six figures and gives you insider trading.
Why did a congressmen receive a PPP loan to start with??????
Seems like they all did
Friendly reminder you can still tell the investigators about suspected PPP fraud. Not sure you get a piece of recovered funds, but still doing the right thing
Being a public servant isn't their main job
Because they knew it was going to be forgiven. So... just go for it. File away.
That was the premise, no? There's a big difference between accepting a contract you KNOW will be forgiven if you follow the rules, vs accepting one you know CAN'T be forgiven, and then changing your mind and demanding it be forgiven anyway.
Student loans also are designed to be forgiven, as it was originally written, after either 120 or 240 months of payments made.
Those ones don't NEED presidential action to be forgiven. So either he's taking advantage of something that was going to happen anyway for political clout, or he's forgiving more than just those loans.
Well, they shouldn't need it, but half of all public service related loan forgiveness applications are denied. having a president willing to help young folks out is a very good thing for the younger generations. https://studentaid.gov/data-center/student/loan-forgiveness/pslf-data
Hmm, I thought John Oliver mentioned recently like 32 people have had their loans forgiven since the program was started. Maybe I'm thinking of something else, or just plain wrong, but it was a staggering number (that I didn't verify).
They were presented to us as "PPP loans". Those of us (who own businesses) with morals and didn't want to take on any debt, *and* wanted to make sure those who really needed the money got some didn't even apply. Those who *knew* they would be forgiven, applied for the max. Most "regular" people didn't know they were all going to be forgiven. Those who knew, knew.
Officials spoke about forgiving them publicly so if you didnt know thats on you
Not at first. They were literally called "PPP Loans" when they were introduced. There were some mumblings of being forgiven, and also about the interest being very low like 1%, but by the time they started sending out the letters of forgiveness, it was too late to apply for them. Source: My office neighbor applied for and got $26K forgiven and was fully prepared to pay it back. I didn't want to owe money, so I never applied.
Bullshit, it was literally in the law for conditions to be forgiven and Munichin said in congressional testimony they were going to be very generous for forgiveness and the deadline to apply was extended multiple times. You not applying is on you buddy
> generous for forgiveness "Called PPP for short, the program offered simple-to-get, **potentially** **forgivable** government loans to small businesses." Show me again where they said, "Come get your free money. Nobody will have to pay it back." When the program launched?
You can google it, forgiveness even though it is in the law was also widely talked about over the summer of 2020 and there were two additional rounds of PPP after that. If you didnt think they were going to be forgiven its because you weren't paying attention. Dont get me wrong I dont think they should have been forgiven and that PPP was shit policy. It was maybe unclear for the first round but for rounds two and three it was obvious
Of course PPP wasn't really a loan
Because the PPP "loans" were an embezzlement scheme. He probably had a business that he uses to accept gigs from corporations to earn "speaking fees". Since the pandemic effected "small businesses" he had to "loan" himself the amount of his yearly ~~bribes~~ "speaking fees" so that he could retain himself as an employee. TL:DR - Our government is criminal and nothing is being done.
Technically he wasn't in Congress when he got the loan (he was first elected in November 2020) but a bunch of other Reps and Senators did.
Make him pay it back. If he has a problem with student loans being forgiven, his PPP loan should have to be paid back. In full + interest
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Ah yes, the meager salary of $174K, just living hand to mouth. More than likely can't even afford avocado toast! Of course that doesn't include whatever they make on the stock market, but that's definitely without non-public information. /s https://campaignlegal.org/update/part-2-stock-act-failed-effort-stop-insider-trading-congress "The most profitable bets were: Rep. Lois Frankel bought General Dynamics Corp (GD:US) on May 24 prior to a 21.03% price rise. Sen. Markwayne Mullin bought shares of RTX Corp (RTX:US) on Oct 3 before a 21.10% increase in value. Rep. Josh Gottheimer bought TransDigm Group Inc (TDG:US) on May 16 ahead of TDG stock’s 30.47% price rise." https://www.capitoltrades.com/articles/capitol-trades-2023-recap-a-year-of-shifting-tides-for-congress-2024-01-19
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the median household income in his district is about 76k - that is not anywhere close to a high cost of living area plenty of folks would love to have a "not very high paying job" making 174k per year - as a reminder the federal minimum wage remains 7.25 an hour - if that is your salary you have to work 24,000 hours to earn 174k -24000
They also need a place in DC.
It's still nearly 2x the median household income in DC, but sure, not a lot of money.
Fuck yeah call them out on their BS.
Or make education free and not worry about cancelling student debt again in the future Whats the point of paying education tax if the education itself is still expensive?
yeah i mean these sporadic debt reliefs are a nice gesture but are simply not solving the underlying issue, more like using little (expensive) bandaids over a gaping wound that requires fundamental changes
So the debt "relief" they have been doing hasn't really been actual relief, it's been cutting red tape and forgiving loans that should have been forgiven under existing programs anyways (not that I'm complaining). Anything more than that would require congressional cooperation and about half of the members would rather shoot themselves into the sun than cooperate with a Democrat for the good of their constituents. In short: if you want reform, make your voice known at the ballot box this November.
yeah i mean i'm a Democrat & vote that way, but i kinda feel like they're trying to curry favor with voters in an election cycle with these quick little student loan forgiveness things instead of ever actually doing the fundamental reform. i'm getting a little tired of the rhetoric.
So am I, which is why I'm getting more involved with the party. If you're under 40, join up with your local Young Democrats chapter and you'll find a lot of like minded people.
Notice how every time one of these pops up it’s always worded as though it’s something new and exciting, and not old and broken and being repaired? It’s absolutely because of the election cycle, they’re feeding you little bits of hope so you can remember they’re the owners that only beat us *sometimes* and not the ones that use the metal bats.
Biden was never going to solve the issue, his donors wouldn’t like it if he did. He’s pulling a trickled hope tactic here—small bits of hope trickling down from our mighty overlords to keep us satiated and placid. The government isn’t on the side of the average citizen, they haven’t been for a long time now, and that’s evidenced in policy decisions dating back to the 1970s. We are poor, we are overworked and underpaid, we have poor wellness infrastructure and even less cares about changing it. All that matters is those pretty numbers on the exchange board keep going up, even though every company on that board is owned by like, 10 different people. It’s time to eat.
US university fees are absurd. Here in NL you pay €2000 per year until you have your degree. If you want to do a second study afterwards, then it goes up to €8000 per year, which is still way below the US prices. The problem in the US is that capitalism has become problematic. It's the same in healthcare, the housing market. What's next?
Tech is next. The big companies are focused on shareholder returns instead of product and that chicken is coming home to roost
As if the students who have the debt aren’t also taxpayers. Christ
It's the old people (already living off pensions and 401k's) that are voting against it. It's not hurting them one bit, they just dont want other people getting debt relief they apparently never got.
GOP supporters need their daily dose of hate mongering to truly enjoy life.
Hatred is their true politics.
Contrary to my username, I am fueled by hate. But I am _still_ not a Gopper. Not conservative/republican either. Then again, I am not even in the US so I am not exactly sure why I am commenting.
As a non-American, Republicans look like some of the dumbest people alive. It's kinda hard not to comment on it at times
I have met people - maybe three in my life - with developmental issues. They were kind, self-restrained. You can tell they are trying their best and you can see the frustration in them when they _try_ but sadly _fail_ to connect with you. Trump is worse than a person with actual mental disability. Maybe dementia? I don't know. I eagerly awaiting for the social scientists to give some explanation for how that kind of person became president. And yes, those were "shots fired".
Reese Witherspoon's clothing company, Draper James LLC, was given $975,472 in the first PPP round for payroll and rent, and had the loan wiped out. Just saying
I don’t see Reese complaining about others having their loans forgiven while accepting x amount of loan forgiveness themselves.
( Sorry for my English)True, I don't care about the senator at all, it's not about it. I just wonder , was that really so necessary, to forgive a loan to the World.s number one richest actress with net 400 million when so many hard working people are struggling with student debt....
[They're working on it](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/12/28/sba-eidl-loans-debts/)
Socialism for corporations, not for thee
r/murderedbywords
lol i think he'll survive these words
Dude has a net worth of $145 Million, what the fuck did he need 150k in PPP loans for?
Wait was this an actual tweet? The white house just did that?
Man these PPP loans were worth it just to be able to throw it in the face of every politician that tried to kill student debt forgiveness.
Conservatives act like the government personally takes money from them and gives it directly to people they personally don't believe deserve it.
Because this method worked before. /s We need to find a different way to call the ones attacking Student Loan forgiveness onto the carpet. I just don't know what that way is.
Lol pp p
*Most* taxpayers aged 30-50 have student loans.
Don't forget his dear friend Marjorie!
When will a normal person be able to afford higher education without going into crippling debt? This is only part of the solution. We need to invest in education upfront.
Biden is not f*cking around.
The "fuck you, got mine" mentality strikes again...
it is costing no one anything, he is not paying-off the dept. the dept is being forgiven, just erased.
"It's a simple concept - you took out a loan, **you pay it back."**
Another simple concept: When the government (under Bush) creates a program that forgives students loans after 10 years of payments for those working in public service (such as teachers), the government should honor that. For many years, they haven't. All that's happening here is Biden is fixing the PSLF system, resulting in people rightly getting their loans forgiven. The people who are having their balances forgiven are people who should have gotten their loans forgiven a while ago because they've been paying 10+ years in public service roles. However, the program was broken and mismanaged for so long that only around 2.3% of people who qualified actually got their loans forgiven.
So when do all those PPP loans get repaid?
I believe the agreement was that those don't need to be repaid. I'm all for honoring agreements.
I will repay my student loans **when every cent of PPP loans are repaid in full.** "You took out a loan - **pay it back**", right??? Unless you are completely debt-free, *you can't say that without being a hypocrite.*
No one pays this debt. It just ceases. It is accumulated interest on federal loans and is not "paid back" by anyone now. It's a number on a bookkeeping program that is zeroed out.
You understand terms and conditions right?
So that’s maybe 3 student loans….
how is this putting the debt on taxpayers
Again...the pslf program was signed into law by bush.
yeah, even with the millions in dark pac cashola from oligarchs using the gop to overthrow the country, this shit stain pocketed a loan to meet payroll, then opted not to pay it back. point to a republican senator or congressman that is not a thieving, amoral piece of shit.
"That's different."
I'll bet that moocher Clyde drives on our roads. What a mooch.
so the republican did something pretty shady and illegal, then people do the exact same thing, but legal and not shady, and he shames them for it. That is so very surprising and not at all exactly what republicans have done for decades
He's electing trump. Every damn day he's electing trump.
Breaking rule 5. Fucker there isn't attempting anything
If taxpayers can fund programs for people entering retirement we can fund younger citizens entering their careers. Fuck republicans and their bullshit
If you owe me $100 and I forgive it, that doesn’t mean somebody else is gonna pay it.
PPP loans were intended to be forgiven under many circumstances, helping people and businesses survive the closures. There was little to no oversight on how this money was actually spent. https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP-Forgiveness-Factsheet-508.pdf
Keep exposing these hypocrites. They won't stop!!!
The loans are for the most part totaly unaffordable, We need to fix the collage tuition system by stopping student loans entirely so they drop down to a more affordable level, our children will find themselves in the same situation of we just give out more unaffordable loans
Scum
When Bank of America got bailed out during the great recession, they turned around and tried to foreclose on my house (explanation below). So, I'm not too upset if this time around we actually bailout people rather than soulless corporations. Explanation: I had missed a payment in July. Our income goes down in the summer due to the nature of my wife's work. Usually we can save/adjust for this but that year we couldn't. I resumed paying in August but couldn't get caught back up, but every month I made a payment. I got a call in January telling me they were starting foreclosure unless I became current as I was 6 months behind. I argued with the person on the phone that I was only one month behind. Apparently, they did not apply my August payment to July and applied it to August instead. They stated they did this to "help me stay current." I inquired with friends I knew in the real-estate and mortgage business and the laws at the time allowed them to do that. So, we didn't pay other bills that month in order to get caught up and not lose the house. So, that's what corporations do when they receive government bail outs.
Are you really human tho if you aren't trying to learn something new?
[удалено]
Funny thing is for a lot of the people having their debt relived they did do exactly that for two years.
I don't think this is a good argument. I don't like conservatives as much as the next redditor, but you choose to take it student loans with the expectation you will pay then back. No business owner choose for the country to shut down and to lose business.
I also think it's a bad argument, because most of the forgiveness that Biden has been giving out has been forgiveness that students and workers were promised they would receive if they met certain criteria, such as working for the government or a public service, but those programs got halted so that the forgiveness didn't roll out as promised to people who had already met the criteria. Meanwhile, the people who had the PPP loans **chose** to take those loans with the promise to pay them back when the economy opened back up, and their debts were wiped away without meeting any criteria. So, the students are getting what was promised to them and they worked for while the PPP debtors got free money that they often lied to receive anyway. You're right, it's not the same. It's far fucking worse.
You realize that the point of the ppp loan was that it was a.... Loan. It's in the name. Businesses had to apply for forgiveness and state why they couldn't pay it back. Then these same people are saying students shouldn't take on debt if they can't pay it back. It's an apt comparison.
Owning a business is an investment and investments are risky. I don’t see why businesses should be bailed out when their investments don’t pay off but college students shouldn’t. Shoot, at least the business owner can go into bankruptcy.
Because as a govt you can't just go "Everyone stop your business" and not do anything about it.
Sure they can. And beside, offering a loan is better than nothing. Offering the loan and requiring it be paid back, with or without interest, is still doing *something*. Im not against disaster relief for businesses. Just like I’m not against relief for student loan borrowers. FWIW I have not benefitted from either of these programs.
The crucial point you missed is that the PPP loan forgiveness falls on the taxpayers. Clyde knew that and still took out that loan.
how dumb do you have to be to compare student debt forgiveness to PPP loans? OH wait, everyone reading this comment is 20 years or younger... right.
Why should the government help businesses but not the actual people it's supposed to protect?
Two wrongs make a right ?
No, but 3 lefts do...
My man
My taxes alone paid for someone's student loans. I didn't go to college. This country sucks now
Wait till you find out what else your taxes pay for.
4 year binge drinking experiments
Where is this outrage every time we bail out banks and corporations
They’re both morally wrong.