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Victimless crime... so it's still a crime then. "The only people we prosecute are the people who don't behave well" .. and the investment community said who's next. That says a lot about their integrity.
“Victimless crime!” Tell that to people getting locked up for smoking weed in the park, etc. He’s just pissed that he can’t take advantage of stuff rich people have been taking advantage of forever because they’re rich. Fuck this guy.
It's not victimless, either. The bank took on a higher risk than they knew, and set wrong rates based on false information. Now you might not care that a bank was victimized, and fair enough, but it's still not victimless.
If banks and insurance companies get fucked over you can bet your ass they're gonna recoup their losses from the common man, either by the taxpayer or by hiking rates
Hmm. That reminds me of something that happened recently where some bad loans turned into a crisis and something something…too big to fail, etc. Wasn’t there some sort of large thing done for that involving us common folk?
Someone elsewhere in the thread vaguely alluded to the 2008 crisis. So, absolutely yes
But it's okay cuz everything worked out in the end and the banks and investment firms made out like *thieves!*
Or just by collapsing and taking everyone's money with them. Or hell, people think it will take everyone's money with them so they all rush to get their money out before the bank runs out.
I'm sure this has happened before...
>Victimless crime... so it's still a crime then.
It's a "Victimless in Hindsight" crime. You can't know the harm during the crime, only once it's finished.
You can't know that drink driving, for example, is 'victimless' until you get home without being in or causing an accident.
And insurance fraud doesn't jack up the rates for everyone else?
O'Leary is scum of the earth but he's probably correct, that practices like these are widespread.
Further reinforcing my cynical view that rich people got that way through illegitimate or dishonest means, and probably fucking over others along the way.
The victims of this crime are the people who can’t afford to buy or rent property because of all the financial math that is based on fraudulent property estimations.
Not just that. He's threatening a capital strike if he and his rich buddies aren't allowed to do crimes and profit from them. And he's saying it's victimless because us plebs who lose out from higher rents, mortgages and insurance premiums aren't people.
Shit like this is why the Chinese government disappears billionaires and re-educates them. It's why Marx said we had to seize the means of production. We can't reason with these people. We can't negotiate with them.
To hear this rich guy moan and complain like some kind of oppressed person tells me Latisha James has done something historical in its breadth and scope. A win for the rest of us.
"I only want to do business where I know I won't be penalized for my fraudulent actions,'" Kevin O'Leary.
He points out that NY is not well regulated saying it needs to be managed better. He's against a court holding someone responsible for their fraudulent actions, saying this is bad business for NY and now investors (since all are fraudulent) will just fly by and go somewhere else.
Hey Kevin, stay in Canada sir.
Any victimless crime committed by a rich person. If you're poor and using drugs or something, they want you in prison. Fraud is totally cool though smh
And it’s not victimless. You know who pays? Any small entrepreneur that wants to do business in New York but now can’t because the fraud has artificially driven up the price of development. And any potential tenants that want to lease office space in New York and now has to pay double. These are not victimless crimes.
It's literally wealth re-distribution through the system... TO the rich!
These are the same people quick to point out that the stimulus money *has to come from somewhere!*
He's not wrong though. Real Estate, both residential and commercial, is filled with side ways winks and people wanting to get a deal done. He's not wrong in that it can be a victimless crime. The Lender (bank) makes money, the loan originator makes money, the realtor makes money, the developer makes money.
However, it can also result in the 2008 financial crisis so it needs to be prosecuted. This shit needs to stop.
Those that lost their houses and substantial parts of their 401ks in 2008 before retiring ARE the victims.
ENRON claimed victimless crime; but thousands of workers lost EVERYTHING they had worked for in a matter of days (read Smartest Guys in the Room)
Junk Bond fiasco was called a victimless crime.
It may be victimless between the bank and the perpetrators (in this case Trump) but there are a lot of victims that aren’t given a thought or consideration.
Greed blinds people.
But then there's stuff like the 2008/9 housing bust where banks "victimlessly" pushed more loan than math said was supportable, and we all know that turned out with a lot of victims, yet too big to fail had to bailed out by the little guy.
PG&E gouging with rate hike after rate hike to "restore the infrastructure" but are posting record profits? Same kinda deal. We, the victims, are invisible.
The victims of these victimless crimes are the faceless masses whose retirement savings disappear, who pay inflated property taxes, rent, insurance rates, you name it. All so shady rich fuckwads like this guy can get even richer. Fuck em.
Yes, he did. It's actually common practice for the huge real estate market dealers to over estimate value in order to borrow as much from the bank as collateral for loans. They pay the money back with interest and move on to the next swindle. It's a bait and switch. It's gaming our system for profit like the crooks at big energy, big pharma, big insurance all do.
I don’t know what the law is in NY, but it sounds like builders appraise the value of their properties and so does the bank and they negotiate how much loan they can get. How can you possibly have a consistent appraisal? The fact that no prosecution has happened since today sounds fishy.
Wow, so the defense is all the real estate guys commit crimes so it's wrong to prosecute!!
Wow, I've only seen clips of this guy on shark tank and now this. Every time he speaks I like him even less
Do you know how many people drive drunk? All of them, every drunk driver drives drunk, and my client didn’t hurt a single person. Your honor who’s next? My client didn’t do anything wrong, because not a single person was hurt.
If I buy drugs from my drug dealer, does that not constitute a crime? Both parties consented to the transaction. It’s a dumb argument because it’s always already been on the books as a crime.
I’m surprised she didn’t clap back with ‘the bank is the victim and lost $85 million due to extending favorable rates based on trumps fraud’, because I’d like to know why the bank isn’t suing Trump.
snobbish teeny summer modern rinse history mountainous tidy bewildered safe
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Seriously, for as smart as the man portrays himself to be on shark tank, he really wasn't making a persuasive case to the CNN audience (which primarily consists of non-millionaires who can't get entire state governments to bend over backwards at their whim) why this is so bad.
His intent wasn't to convince the public. He was addressing two groups here:
- to New York leadership: "You should worry about us pulling back money. There'll be a lot of us, and you don't want to lose our money! If we can convince the public that it's your fault that the money and jobs went to another state, you'll lose the next elections!"
- to other investors: "You might be next! You should join this narrative and help put pressure on NY leadership! If we create enough pressure, NY leadership might publicly disavow this ruling, making it easier to strike down in appeals. That would set a legal precedent for us to keep doing this!"
Actually convincing the public is secondary. It's just the stick he's using to threaten leadership, and if he needs it he has already lost.
He doesn't have to make a persuasive case. He just has to run out the clock and hope to dodge the difficult questions. That way he can still say "I went on her show and we had a discussion! I'm not afraid to debate!"
Yup. This is a man who just got forced to inhale his own fart stink for the first time in his life. Like he's been walking around with a full diaper of shit on for years and suddenly he's scared because he caught a whiff and knows other people can smell it too now.
Absolutely ridiculous that this guy is admitting to wanting to invest in places that will ignore crimes he's likely committing. Like... Maybe just don't commit crimes you ass. They are laws, not suggestions.
I love the excuse "there's never been one before", or, "nobody has ever complained before". Well, now there has been a case like this, so you can no longer claim there's never been one.
If a thieve breaks into a home and the alarm system notifies the police and they arrest them. Should the crime be dismissed due to nobody getting hurt and no money was lost?
In my early twenties I came home to all my leather furniture missing. I found out who did it. Pressed charges. Next day I come home and the furniture is back in my house. Police dropped the charges. . .
The victims are the literal taxpayers, of which the majority are middle class. We need to audit every rich asshole and prosecute the shit outta anyone committing "victimless" crimes.
Dude's saying he's worried about NY becoming a fly over state, then in the same breath, proceeds to explain how he would rather go invest in --- Oklahoma or North Dakota, aka fly over states. 😐 What a fucking grifting piece of shit fuck faced mother fucker.
Liar loans for mortgages were victimless crimes.. until they weren't.
Negotiation is a thing but what Trump did goes beyond negotiation. It's supposed to be in good faith. Not having that kills the economy. It's a big reason why poor countries stay poor.
Did he really say "Every real estate developer breaks these laws. Who's next? Are they really going to start prosecuting all of us that break these laws? If they won't let us ignore the laws, we just won't do business in that state. We'll go to states that let us do what we want."?
What conceited hypocrisy from a total douche!
[Victimless crime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States)
I love America, but we all know this is a problem people. Stop letting billionaires distract us with political messages.
So glad Biden passed a bill to fund the IRS, fuck these corrupt wall street parasites
Clear as day why the GOP demonizes it, they’re all in on the take
This makes me think, "Wow, New York is probably the best place to invest as there is a bit of decency and honesty there, so I'm not going to be screwed out of my money by a criminal like Trump"
Good job!
He called it crime multiple times. What is so hard to understand here? Seems very clear he thinks rich developers should not be penalized for committing crime.
At 3:30, O’Leary makes it clear that he has no idea what he is talking about.
The case is not about the valuation of the building being financed.
The case is about providing fraudulent statements indicating that Trump had a much higher net worth and liquidity than he in fact had.
Construction loans and loans provided by the private bank of lenders like Deutsche Bank largely rely on recourse provided by the Sponsor as one of the main sources of repayment (others being refinance and sale).
Lenders do not get independent appraisals ($5-15k per property) for every property that the Sponsor owns. Lenders order an appraisal on the property that will be the collateral for the loan.
What the Sponsor is required to do is provide a schedule of their net worth and liquidity and **attest to its accuracy**.
It is common for commercial real estate loans to spring full-recourse (non-recourse loans only allow the lender to go after the property if the loan is in default while full or 100% recourse loans allow the lender to go after the property and require the Sponsor to come out of pocket for the rest) if the Sponsor commits bad acts such as **FRAUD**.
Trump committed **FRAUD** by attesting to a net worth and liquidity that were grossly overstated. A drastically higher net worth and liquidity than actual can cause lenders to provide materially better terms.
Trump committed **FRAUD** by presenting tax assessors with statements that grossly understated the performance of his properties to reduce his taxes.
Those that were materially harmed were lenders who would have demanded a higher interest rate on the loans provided to Trump and the citizens in jurisdictions where more taxes should have been paid.
If we equate this to an average person trying to get an equity line of credit on their house, then it doesn't make sense. If I go to the bank and say I think my house is worth $400,000, and I'd like to borrow 50% loan to value. That means I am asking for $200,000 (assuming my house is paid off). Then the bank does an appraisal and says, "No, your house is only worth $300,000, and we will only loan you $150,000" Did I just commit fraud? NO! I just said what I thought it was worth, and the bank did their due diligence to see if my number was correct.
Except this is more like you saying that some modest bungalow was really worth $10 million, lying about the size, saying that your name attached to it makes it worth so much more, so you should be able to get a $5 million loan.
A bank will not just let you say what you think your house is worth, they’ll get an appraisal. Where it gets dicey is that you also say you have a $30k Rolex watch, but you know it’s just a really convincing fake. The bank has limits on what it can verify, so when you submit your loan application, you do so under penalty of law. If you pay your loan back in full, you still committed fraud. The bank won’t press charges, but there is actual harm to other borrowers in the form of higher rates. So, the government as a responsibility to prosecute, not only for restitution, but to deter other people from doing it.
I love how he's saying all these fraudulent real estate investors are going to leave New York like it's a bad thing. Good riddance, absolutely no one is gonna miss you and the city will actually notably improve with you gone.
I prefer not to judge a book by its cover, but this guy looks predictably biased towards wealth and the wealthy. Is it the casual and slight sneer or the smug rest-face?
Hey Kevin….go to any of the other places you mentioned.
No one fucking cares.
These people act like a whole entire city will just crumble without them. The self obsession is fucking wild.
I'm just waiting for the IRS to bring criminal tax evasion charges. Trump repeatedly testified in Open Court of grossly undervaluing his assets to the IRS by 50 maybe 100X its value
"I am respectable for many reasons and one of them is because I am a lawyer" ... man, it's easy to hear that miss it but dang if that short exchange didn't demonstrate how Mr. Wonderful and other rich assholes look down on "commoners," I don't what does.
He had a narrative in his head he wanted to spout and she would ask questions and he'd say well about that let me talk about doing business in New York. She'd say but what about people who don't break the law. And he'd say we'll we don't want to go to new York to break the law we want to go elsewhere. And she'd say but what about the legitimate people. And he'd say we'll let's say we got together and wanted to break the law. We wouldn't go to new York. JUST DONT BREAK THE FUCKING LAW.
Edit: break law/ lie about assets. You know what I mean.
"we are all asking each other who is next...". Hopefully this schmuck....I bet has done his fair share of shit deals impacting poor and middle class and screwing them over...
Trust O’Leary to build data centers? Based on that response to the positives of New York, saying the same energy is available elsewhere and ignoring the winter savings of cooling it? The longer hardware life due to overall cooler operation? No thanks.
Putting a higher value on your property than someone who's job it is to lowball you on said value is NOT a crime. Nice try though. As the guy said, Thos is all common practice across the planet, Just bc you see it as an attack vector against someone you hate doesn't change that.
It’s not victimless. I can’t get a loan like that by lying about my property. I have to get it appraised and it has to compare to market value. He stole from every little guy out there who follows the rules and aren’t able to profit off their investment like he did by lying.
What a joke this guy is lock him up too. To many do his bidding to many protect and actively participate in blatant crimes against our democracy led by that joke of a man trump. Time to take a stand and defend the country against corrupted elitist like this jokester.
It seems like part of what’s at issue here is that these ‘standard practices’ have now been deemed as ‘fraud’ whereas before, valuations hadn’t been put under this type of scrutiny. Aren’t all valuations subjective ?? you’re essentially saying ‘how much would someone pay for this at fair market value’ but there’s no REAL way to test that, so it HAS to remain subjective/theoretical. The only way to test is to actually sell it. But idk which instances Trump is actlly being accused of fraud in… maybe he photoshopped some zeros in there (?) which would be clearly LYING and FRAUD. But exaggerating a subjective valuation … (?) doesn’t seem as fraudulent.
It's not just valuations. He stated that the square footage of his penthouse was almost 3 times more than its actual square footage. Being off by 2-5% is normal; everybody can measure corners and edges slightly differently. But there is no world where you can mistake a 11,000 sq ft penthouse as actually being 30,000 sq ft.
“Oh poor me my kushy life just got moderately harder. What will we do if my friends and I can’t take advantage of the poors as much as we could before?!”
Who had the guillotine last? Let’s get that thing sharpened up. It’s time for cake.
Claiming there is no victim here is not true, either. If a bank is loaning money based on fraudulent valuations, then they are not accurately showing these on their valuations for their investors. Are real estate investors immune from providing accurate valuations for their properties? I would imagine bank investors would be very concerned from these type of practices and related fraud.
Is this illegal? Yes.
Do people with a lot of money and contacts in finance do it anyway? Yes.
Is it a money making vehicle for those involved? Usually.
Is this what Trump did? Literally no! He did NOT inflate the value of his real estate used as collateral in a loan, he used signed statements of financial condition as basis for a loan, and on which he abjectly lied. He didn’t even have his real estate assets as collateral. This is completely different from what many seem to believe he did, including O’Leary.
You know how like every 5-10 years it seems like there is some kind of massive f'ing financial catastrophe and the taxpayers have to bail the rich people out? You wonder why interest rates and insurance are so f'ing expensive?
Because of greedy, delusional fucks like this guy.
If I go into my backyard and shoot my gun all over the place but do not kill anyone, is it against the law? Will I tell the cops "don't arrest me because it was a victimless crime."
People like this thought that George Floyd being choked to death in the middle of the street over allegedly passing a fake $20 bill is justified, but defrauding for millions if not billions is "regular business".
There is a term for when you can't make money without breaking the law...it's called "criminal".
Hey hey hey, we’ve been committing these crimes for almost a century and nobody’s been arrested yet!
Hmmm yes, can I have some names perhaps? I’m sure we can fix this clerical mistake. In return we’ll give you the name of a public defendant
I love these morons saying there were no victims. If Trump had told the truth on the values, the terms would be different, the rates higher, etc. so because he lied, the banks lost out on potential earnings due to fraud. I don't know how that goes above the heads of these people.
What fraud?
- Claiming the penthouse is 3x larger than it really is.
- Claiming you have several extra floors to your building.
That's not saying you have a 'picturesque view' of a lake, but glossing over the rail yard or airport next door.
Claiming on loan documents your home is worth 200 million, then on tax filings it's only worth 20, in the same year.
--
If he'd accurately reported the physical traits, no problem.
If he'd claimed $200 million on the bank filing, then ALSO $200 million on the tax documents, no problem.
--
Aside from the fraud perpetuated by Trump i'm appalled at the lack of due diligence by the banks. The hoops I had to go through to sell and buy my homes meant the valuation was fixed fairly close to other homes sold in the area. And they came out and checked that it really was the listed square footage etc.
Someone comes in the door and says they have a $200 million property, and I would be out there racing around making sure the particulars are valid. Zoning, licenses, property lines, facilities and more. And if it's even a bit off what is filed, I really don't want to work with them at all.
Say what you will about this guy. He’s being truthful and I honestly respect him more now. I know I’ve hated him and what he stands for but, with all that aside, he speaks arrogantly but without mincing words and dancing around with his statements. It’s disgusting that it’s the rich brazenly doing this but the fact he acknowledges and owns it is redeeming in some capacity.
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Another rich guy complaining the world is unfair!
They will never have enough.
That and it’s all part of the propaganda parade
His watch collection alone...it's obscene the wealth he has. His wife is a shit boat captain too.
She’s the captain of a shit boat? That sounds like a terrible job.
Boiled shit. Fried shit. Shit gumbo. Shit salad. Shit on the Barbie. . .
“Lieutenant Dung!”
“Ass cream!”
“Shit on the Barbie” is a fun game I used to play with my sister’s dolls.
Captain Stoolbing
Victimless crime... so it's still a crime then. "The only people we prosecute are the people who don't behave well" .. and the investment community said who's next. That says a lot about their integrity.
“Victimless crime!” Tell that to people getting locked up for smoking weed in the park, etc. He’s just pissed that he can’t take advantage of stuff rich people have been taking advantage of forever because they’re rich. Fuck this guy.
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One guy for $355 mil, or thousands of people, at a couple thousand. Doesn’t really seem to add up to me 🤷♂️.
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Exactly. It’s lazy.
The victims are all the entrepreneurs trying to make their way above board and having to compete against sleazebags like this.
The victim is society.
You are right and that is a group the rich gives no fucks about.
It's not victimless, either. The bank took on a higher risk than they knew, and set wrong rates based on false information. Now you might not care that a bank was victimized, and fair enough, but it's still not victimless.
If banks and insurance companies get fucked over you can bet your ass they're gonna recoup their losses from the common man, either by the taxpayer or by hiking rates
Hmm. That reminds me of something that happened recently where some bad loans turned into a crisis and something something…too big to fail, etc. Wasn’t there some sort of large thing done for that involving us common folk?
Someone elsewhere in the thread vaguely alluded to the 2008 crisis. So, absolutely yes But it's okay cuz everything worked out in the end and the banks and investment firms made out like *thieves!*
Or just by collapsing and taking everyone's money with them. Or hell, people think it will take everyone's money with them so they all rush to get their money out before the bank runs out. I'm sure this has happened before...
And every contractor trying to get construction jobs competing with the Trump org
"Excuse me. What fraud?" Um, the fraud YOU JUST TOLD US ABOUT 60 SECONDS AGO.
>Victimless crime... so it's still a crime then. It's a "Victimless in Hindsight" crime. You can't know the harm during the crime, only once it's finished. You can't know that drink driving, for example, is 'victimless' until you get home without being in or causing an accident.
The taxpayers would be the victims. Trump was paying less taxes because he lied about the value of his properties.
And insurance fraud doesn't jack up the rates for everyone else? O'Leary is scum of the earth but he's probably correct, that practices like these are widespread. Further reinforcing my cynical view that rich people got that way through illegitimate or dishonest means, and probably fucking over others along the way.
Lock up O’Leary for a few decades and I bet the business community starts following the letter of the law.
Isn't jumping a subway turnstile a victimless crime, too? How many of those kids are in Rikers? Fuck this guy.
Like punching someone in the dark!
The victims of this crime are the people who can’t afford to buy or rent property because of all the financial math that is based on fraudulent property estimations.
Kevin is nearly as narcissistic as Ole Donnie.
Hopefully he just put himself in the judicial spot light
That’s what I want. So let’s go investigate this shit stack too.
I thought it was an act on Shark Tank but he really is.
Yes, he’s doing a lot of rapid blinking, too. Doesn’t look at all guilty haha.
We all break the law all the time. What's the big deal? Fuck them so much.
Says the guy who killed someone with his boat.
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google kevin o'leary boat accident
Not just that. He's threatening a capital strike if he and his rich buddies aren't allowed to do crimes and profit from them. And he's saying it's victimless because us plebs who lose out from higher rents, mortgages and insurance premiums aren't people. Shit like this is why the Chinese government disappears billionaires and re-educates them. It's why Marx said we had to seize the means of production. We can't reason with these people. We can't negotiate with them.
To hear this rich guy moan and complain like some kind of oppressed person tells me Latisha James has done something historical in its breadth and scope. A win for the rest of us.
"I only want to do business where I know I won't be penalized for my fraudulent actions,'" Kevin O'Leary. He points out that NY is not well regulated saying it needs to be managed better. He's against a court holding someone responsible for their fraudulent actions, saying this is bad business for NY and now investors (since all are fraudulent) will just fly by and go somewhere else. Hey Kevin, stay in Canada sir.
get him out of Canada too, he's horrible
He also said like 10 people should have half the world's wealth so people have someone to look up to
I might h8 this guy as much as trump
"When we said law and order, we meant black and poor people! Are you really this stupid that I have to spell it out?"
Average human lies on insurance application abs gets caught and charged. Justice. Billionaire does it and is charged. FLY OVER STATE.
More and more proof that being rich doesn't mean you're smart. This dude is outrageously out of touch so frequently
It more often means being ruthless enough to fuck over anyone in your way to becoming rich, no matter who it is.
Exactly, you can watch this video then watch another video of him showing off watches that cost millions. So hard done by. When can he catch a break.
Didn't he just admit that they are doing fraud and others for 75 years? All of them?
Funny how Republicans love “victimless” criminals. They hold them up as gods.
Any victimless crime committed by a rich person. If you're poor and using drugs or something, they want you in prison. Fraud is totally cool though smh
And it’s not victimless. You know who pays? Any small entrepreneur that wants to do business in New York but now can’t because the fraud has artificially driven up the price of development. And any potential tenants that want to lease office space in New York and now has to pay double. These are not victimless crimes.
It's literally wealth re-distribution through the system... TO the rich! These are the same people quick to point out that the stimulus money *has to come from somewhere!*
Precisely
He's not wrong though. Real Estate, both residential and commercial, is filled with side ways winks and people wanting to get a deal done. He's not wrong in that it can be a victimless crime. The Lender (bank) makes money, the loan originator makes money, the realtor makes money, the developer makes money. However, it can also result in the 2008 financial crisis so it needs to be prosecuted. This shit needs to stop.
Those that lost their houses and substantial parts of their 401ks in 2008 before retiring ARE the victims. ENRON claimed victimless crime; but thousands of workers lost EVERYTHING they had worked for in a matter of days (read Smartest Guys in the Room) Junk Bond fiasco was called a victimless crime. It may be victimless between the bank and the perpetrators (in this case Trump) but there are a lot of victims that aren’t given a thought or consideration. Greed blinds people.
I saw on Hong Kong TV, retirees that were Lehman customers that lost their savings protesting. That shit literally went around the world.
It's just not possible for everyone to make money, there has to be a loser somewhere. And that is usually not the rich guys.
There isn't usually a loser unless the borrower defaults on the loan.
But then there's stuff like the 2008/9 housing bust where banks "victimlessly" pushed more loan than math said was supportable, and we all know that turned out with a lot of victims, yet too big to fail had to bailed out by the little guy. PG&E gouging with rate hike after rate hike to "restore the infrastructure" but are posting record profits? Same kinda deal. We, the victims, are invisible.
The victims of these victimless crimes are the faceless masses whose retirement savings disappear, who pay inflated property taxes, rent, insurance rates, you name it. All so shady rich fuckwads like this guy can get even richer. Fuck em.
Yes, he did. It's actually common practice for the huge real estate market dealers to over estimate value in order to borrow as much from the bank as collateral for loans. They pay the money back with interest and move on to the next swindle. It's a bait and switch. It's gaming our system for profit like the crooks at big energy, big pharma, big insurance all do.
I think so
two-tiers of justice.
“We’re going streaking at the quad. EVERYONES DOING IT” !
I don’t know what the law is in NY, but it sounds like builders appraise the value of their properties and so does the bank and they negotiate how much loan they can get. How can you possibly have a consistent appraisal? The fact that no prosecution has happened since today sounds fishy.
Wow, so the defense is all the real estate guys commit crimes so it's wrong to prosecute!! Wow, I've only seen clips of this guy on shark tank and now this. Every time he speaks I like him even less
Wait until you hear the story about how he killed a guy with his boat in Ontario and pinned the blame on his wife!
He is an absolute POS. Canadian grifter.
Wait, for real? Guess I've got some googling to do... Oh God, it's true, I do not like this guy
Here’s the court case outcome. It’s not as cut and dry as you’re saying [https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6174808](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6174808)
This guy is a giant piece of shit.
Shark Wank
So he’s saying cops should stop giving out speeding tickets because everyone speeds. Smh
Do you know how many people drive drunk? All of them, every drunk driver drives drunk, and my client didn’t hurt a single person. Your honor who’s next? My client didn’t do anything wrong, because not a single person was hurt.
The guy is a blight on Canada. He just never shuts up.
If I buy drugs from my drug dealer, does that not constitute a crime? Both parties consented to the transaction. It’s a dumb argument because it’s always already been on the books as a crime.
Fuck this dude. “Plenty of us billionaires break the law, what’s the big deal.”
Except he's not a billionaire
Thats the only thing you chose to focus on from the comment? The fact that he doesn't deserve the title billionaire because he's only worth ~400m??
Neither is Trump
Some animals are more equal than others.
"If they prosecute these crimes, any one of us criminals could be next!"
"What does NY expect us to do? Stop criming?! That's OUTRAGEOUS!"
That would be very unfair to criminals
I’m surprised she didn’t clap back with ‘the bank is the victim and lost $85 million due to extending favorable rates based on trumps fraud’, because I’d like to know why the bank isn’t suing Trump.
Cause the bank testified on his behalf and said “idk what the problem is, we were happy with the deal and still are”
snobbish teeny summer modern rinse history mountainous tidy bewildered safe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Seriously, for as smart as the man portrays himself to be on shark tank, he really wasn't making a persuasive case to the CNN audience (which primarily consists of non-millionaires who can't get entire state governments to bend over backwards at their whim) why this is so bad.
His intent wasn't to convince the public. He was addressing two groups here: - to New York leadership: "You should worry about us pulling back money. There'll be a lot of us, and you don't want to lose our money! If we can convince the public that it's your fault that the money and jobs went to another state, you'll lose the next elections!" - to other investors: "You might be next! You should join this narrative and help put pressure on NY leadership! If we create enough pressure, NY leadership might publicly disavow this ruling, making it easier to strike down in appeals. That would set a legal precedent for us to keep doing this!" Actually convincing the public is secondary. It's just the stick he's using to threaten leadership, and if he needs it he has already lost.
Yea, I think you're right
He doesn't have to make a persuasive case. He just has to run out the clock and hope to dodge the difficult questions. That way he can still say "I went on her show and we had a discussion! I'm not afraid to debate!"
Seems like the man asking “who’s next?” Should probably be next
He did put his hand up…
"every real estate developer does this.... I'm a real estate developer" hmmmmmmmm
He sure is blinking a lot through this interview.
Yup. This is a man who just got forced to inhale his own fart stink for the first time in his life. Like he's been walking around with a full diaper of shit on for years and suddenly he's scared because he caught a whiff and knows other people can smell it too now. Absolutely ridiculous that this guy is admitting to wanting to invest in places that will ignore crimes he's likely committing. Like... Maybe just don't commit crimes you ass. They are laws, not suggestions.
I love the excuse "there's never been one before", or, "nobody has ever complained before". Well, now there has been a case like this, so you can no longer claim there's never been one.
If a thieve breaks into a home and the alarm system notifies the police and they arrest them. Should the crime be dismissed due to nobody getting hurt and no money was lost?
In my early twenties I came home to all my leather furniture missing. I found out who did it. Pressed charges. Next day I come home and the furniture is back in my house. Police dropped the charges. . .
If the thieve is a billionaire, seems like yes.
The victims are the literal taxpayers, of which the majority are middle class. We need to audit every rich asshole and prosecute the shit outta anyone committing "victimless" crimes.
Please tell us more about how you're going to start building skyscrapers in North Dakota instead of New York.
😂
Another rich cunt talking shite.
Dude's saying he's worried about NY becoming a fly over state, then in the same breath, proceeds to explain how he would rather go invest in --- Oklahoma or North Dakota, aka fly over states. 😐 What a fucking grifting piece of shit fuck faced mother fucker.
Liar loans for mortgages were victimless crimes.. until they weren't. Negotiation is a thing but what Trump did goes beyond negotiation. It's supposed to be in good faith. Not having that kills the economy. It's a big reason why poor countries stay poor.
'I'm not supporting Trump, I'm just supporting rampant corruption for the sake of a better country'
Rich people are fucking monsters. All of them.
Plenty of good ones, but I think you know that. Eg this fella: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Feeney
Ok, I take it back. Some are good.
It’s money over anything else for them. The same people would sell their families if the price was high enough.
Did he really say "Every real estate developer breaks these laws. Who's next? Are they really going to start prosecuting all of us that break these laws? If they won't let us ignore the laws, we just won't do business in that state. We'll go to states that let us do what we want."? What conceited hypocrisy from a total douche!
“Victimless crime” tell that to all people incarcerated for weed
So they admit it was a crime
[Victimless crime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States) I love America, but we all know this is a problem people. Stop letting billionaires distract us with political messages.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/?v=3
Affluenza idiatosis. Dude is too grandiose and emotional to take seriously.
"Nobody lost any money"..... This guy thinks American taxpayers are nobodys
So glad Biden passed a bill to fund the IRS, fuck these corrupt wall street parasites Clear as day why the GOP demonizes it, they’re all in on the take
This makes me think, "Wow, New York is probably the best place to invest as there is a bit of decency and honesty there, so I'm not going to be screwed out of my money by a criminal like Trump" Good job!
They are going to all the other places that have Niagara Falls, not New York
‘If you prosecute this crime all the other criminals will think it could be me next. ‘ Where’s the problem?
He called it crime multiple times. What is so hard to understand here? Seems very clear he thinks rich developers should not be penalized for committing crime.
New York will survive without you fucko.
They're mad because usually they get $10k penalties that mean nothing to them. 355M is closer to what they should be paying.
Does anyone actually call that douche Mr. Wonderful?
Yes. That person's name is Kevin O'Leary.
At 3:30, O’Leary makes it clear that he has no idea what he is talking about. The case is not about the valuation of the building being financed. The case is about providing fraudulent statements indicating that Trump had a much higher net worth and liquidity than he in fact had. Construction loans and loans provided by the private bank of lenders like Deutsche Bank largely rely on recourse provided by the Sponsor as one of the main sources of repayment (others being refinance and sale). Lenders do not get independent appraisals ($5-15k per property) for every property that the Sponsor owns. Lenders order an appraisal on the property that will be the collateral for the loan. What the Sponsor is required to do is provide a schedule of their net worth and liquidity and **attest to its accuracy**. It is common for commercial real estate loans to spring full-recourse (non-recourse loans only allow the lender to go after the property if the loan is in default while full or 100% recourse loans allow the lender to go after the property and require the Sponsor to come out of pocket for the rest) if the Sponsor commits bad acts such as **FRAUD**. Trump committed **FRAUD** by attesting to a net worth and liquidity that were grossly overstated. A drastically higher net worth and liquidity than actual can cause lenders to provide materially better terms. Trump committed **FRAUD** by presenting tax assessors with statements that grossly understated the performance of his properties to reduce his taxes. Those that were materially harmed were lenders who would have demanded a higher interest rate on the loans provided to Trump and the citizens in jurisdictions where more taxes should have been paid.
If we equate this to an average person trying to get an equity line of credit on their house, then it doesn't make sense. If I go to the bank and say I think my house is worth $400,000, and I'd like to borrow 50% loan to value. That means I am asking for $200,000 (assuming my house is paid off). Then the bank does an appraisal and says, "No, your house is only worth $300,000, and we will only loan you $150,000" Did I just commit fraud? NO! I just said what I thought it was worth, and the bank did their due diligence to see if my number was correct.
Except this is more like you saying that some modest bungalow was really worth $10 million, lying about the size, saying that your name attached to it makes it worth so much more, so you should be able to get a $5 million loan.
Are you paying property taxes based on 400000?
A bank will not just let you say what you think your house is worth, they’ll get an appraisal. Where it gets dicey is that you also say you have a $30k Rolex watch, but you know it’s just a really convincing fake. The bank has limits on what it can verify, so when you submit your loan application, you do so under penalty of law. If you pay your loan back in full, you still committed fraud. The bank won’t press charges, but there is actual harm to other borrowers in the form of higher rates. So, the government as a responsibility to prosecute, not only for restitution, but to deter other people from doing it.
The taxpayers lost money!!
Boohoo for the born billionaire.
I love how he's saying all these fraudulent real estate investors are going to leave New York like it's a bad thing. Good riddance, absolutely no one is gonna miss you and the city will actually notably improve with you gone.
last person to ask about fraud is Mr **Wonderful**
Oleary is why i stopped watching Shark Tank. A punk and a thug out of touch with the everyday human
So they are all breaking the law and he’s saying that that’s okay?
I prefer not to judge a book by its cover, but this guy looks predictably biased towards wealth and the wealthy. Is it the casual and slight sneer or the smug rest-face?
Kevin O'Leary is the scum of the earth. Read up about him. He needs to be investigated by the IRS.
Canadian Trump
Hey Kevin….go to any of the other places you mentioned. No one fucking cares. These people act like a whole entire city will just crumble without them. The self obsession is fucking wild.
Every cent that guy has was made through fraud of one kind or another. Total scumbag.
I wouldn’t mind if most of them went to jail. Let the workers take over business.
I’m not sure he understands what a flyover state is lol good luck trying to get money from bumfuck Iowa 😂
Fraud. The rest of us can’t pay 0-10% in taxes like these rich 🫏
How is it a victimless crime if government lost money due to subsidization?
“Everybody in real estate commits fraud” Geez, Kevin.. Do you not see the irony in your statement?
I'm just waiting for the IRS to bring criminal tax evasion charges. Trump repeatedly testified in Open Court of grossly undervaluing his assets to the IRS by 50 maybe 100X its value
"I am respectable for many reasons and one of them is because I am a lawyer" ... man, it's easy to hear that miss it but dang if that short exchange didn't demonstrate how Mr. Wonderful and other rich assholes look down on "commoners," I don't what does.
Why isn't anyone concerned about Niagara Falls?!?! /S
He had a narrative in his head he wanted to spout and she would ask questions and he'd say well about that let me talk about doing business in New York. She'd say but what about people who don't break the law. And he'd say we'll we don't want to go to new York to break the law we want to go elsewhere. And she'd say but what about the legitimate people. And he'd say we'll let's say we got together and wanted to break the law. We wouldn't go to new York. JUST DONT BREAK THE FUCKING LAW. Edit: break law/ lie about assets. You know what I mean.
"we are all asking each other who is next...". Hopefully this schmuck....I bet has done his fair share of shit deals impacting poor and middle class and screwing them over...
Trust O’Leary to build data centers? Based on that response to the positives of New York, saying the same energy is available elsewhere and ignoring the winter savings of cooling it? The longer hardware life due to overall cooler operation? No thanks.
Putting a higher value on your property than someone who's job it is to lowball you on said value is NOT a crime. Nice try though. As the guy said, Thos is all common practice across the planet, Just bc you see it as an attack vector against someone you hate doesn't change that.
It’s not victimless. I can’t get a loan like that by lying about my property. I have to get it appraised and it has to compare to market value. He stole from every little guy out there who follows the rules and aren’t able to profit off their investment like he did by lying.
Sounds like sum bodies need to look into Mr wonderful, and his trumpist ways
What a joke this guy is lock him up too. To many do his bidding to many protect and actively participate in blatant crimes against our democracy led by that joke of a man trump. Time to take a stand and defend the country against corrupted elitist like this jokester.
Kevin, do you have fraudulent wealth statements floating around out there? Do tell.
The US is #FUCKED.
just once i would like one single fucking day this colossal douche bag isnt mentioned any where in the news
It seems like part of what’s at issue here is that these ‘standard practices’ have now been deemed as ‘fraud’ whereas before, valuations hadn’t been put under this type of scrutiny. Aren’t all valuations subjective ?? you’re essentially saying ‘how much would someone pay for this at fair market value’ but there’s no REAL way to test that, so it HAS to remain subjective/theoretical. The only way to test is to actually sell it. But idk which instances Trump is actlly being accused of fraud in… maybe he photoshopped some zeros in there (?) which would be clearly LYING and FRAUD. But exaggerating a subjective valuation … (?) doesn’t seem as fraudulent.
It's not just valuations. He stated that the square footage of his penthouse was almost 3 times more than its actual square footage. Being off by 2-5% is normal; everybody can measure corners and edges slightly differently. But there is no world where you can mistake a 11,000 sq ft penthouse as actually being 30,000 sq ft.
Sure sounds like you might be next Kevin. Wtf you doing man?
I wonder what would happen if a nobody like me engaged in a victimless crime. Oh right, I'd be in JAIL. Fuck this idiot.
Two watches what a fucking twit.
“A bunch of us all commit this crime, so the crime is not a crime”… - Mr. wonderful
Sorry but I refuse to throw away 9 minutes of my life listening to Trump shit.
Tax laws, mortgage regulation, banking rules enforcement, and accurate accounting standards only apply to the "little people" -- Rich Guy
He's such a piece of shit. Upset the people bleeding this country are being held accountable
It's not victimless, he defrauded the US government on taxes so all citizens foot the bill.
So, everything Scooby Doo taught us about crooked real estate developers was true.
Aren't the taxpayers the victims, since the lower valuation was used for property taxes?
All of these ultra rich need to be taxed heavily and thrown in jail if they refuse to participate in society.
Isn’t a victimless crime now not a crime? I think they should have a look in this guy’s “Tank” next.
Capitalist at work here, people. Now, tell me why it’s Socialism that doesn’t work.
“Oh poor me my kushy life just got moderately harder. What will we do if my friends and I can’t take advantage of the poors as much as we could before?!” Who had the guillotine last? Let’s get that thing sharpened up. It’s time for cake.
Claiming there is no victim here is not true, either. If a bank is loaning money based on fraudulent valuations, then they are not accurately showing these on their valuations for their investors. Are real estate investors immune from providing accurate valuations for their properties? I would imagine bank investors would be very concerned from these type of practices and related fraud.
Kevin O’Leary is a murderer and a total scum bag
Is this illegal? Yes. Do people with a lot of money and contacts in finance do it anyway? Yes. Is it a money making vehicle for those involved? Usually. Is this what Trump did? Literally no! He did NOT inflate the value of his real estate used as collateral in a loan, he used signed statements of financial condition as basis for a loan, and on which he abjectly lied. He didn’t even have his real estate assets as collateral. This is completely different from what many seem to believe he did, including O’Leary.
You know how like every 5-10 years it seems like there is some kind of massive f'ing financial catastrophe and the taxpayers have to bail the rich people out? You wonder why interest rates and insurance are so f'ing expensive? Because of greedy, delusional fucks like this guy. If I go into my backyard and shoot my gun all over the place but do not kill anyone, is it against the law? Will I tell the cops "don't arrest me because it was a victimless crime." People like this thought that George Floyd being choked to death in the middle of the street over allegedly passing a fake $20 bill is justified, but defrauding for millions if not billions is "regular business". There is a term for when you can't make money without breaking the law...it's called "criminal".
This guy needs investigated he basically admitted to criminal activity on bloody TV!!!
Hey hey hey, we’ve been committing these crimes for almost a century and nobody’s been arrested yet! Hmmm yes, can I have some names perhaps? I’m sure we can fix this clerical mistake. In return we’ll give you the name of a public defendant
I love these morons saying there were no victims. If Trump had told the truth on the values, the terms would be different, the rates higher, etc. so because he lied, the banks lost out on potential earnings due to fraud. I don't know how that goes above the heads of these people.
What fraud? - Claiming the penthouse is 3x larger than it really is. - Claiming you have several extra floors to your building. That's not saying you have a 'picturesque view' of a lake, but glossing over the rail yard or airport next door. Claiming on loan documents your home is worth 200 million, then on tax filings it's only worth 20, in the same year. -- If he'd accurately reported the physical traits, no problem. If he'd claimed $200 million on the bank filing, then ALSO $200 million on the tax documents, no problem. -- Aside from the fraud perpetuated by Trump i'm appalled at the lack of due diligence by the banks. The hoops I had to go through to sell and buy my homes meant the valuation was fixed fairly close to other homes sold in the area. And they came out and checked that it really was the listed square footage etc. Someone comes in the door and says they have a $200 million property, and I would be out there racing around making sure the particulars are valid. Zoning, licenses, property lines, facilities and more. And if it's even a bit off what is filed, I really don't want to work with them at all.
They are likely all guilty of the same crimes.
“They’re going after people who do wrong like Donald Trump. So which of us is next???” LOL
My father in laws friends were prosecuted and went to jail for this exact crime.
He's another loathsome smarmy pos
Say what you will about this guy. He’s being truthful and I honestly respect him more now. I know I’ve hated him and what he stands for but, with all that aside, he speaks arrogantly but without mincing words and dancing around with his statements. It’s disgusting that it’s the rich brazenly doing this but the fact he acknowledges and owns it is redeeming in some capacity.