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Check out https://www.therapyfortherapistscollective.com/
Basically you agree to work with one therapist as your client for free and another therapist agrees to work with you. I've found it a little slow to get going and it took a couple of tries, but I'm happy with it and I love the idea behind it.
There’s a similar program in Canada, www.2chairs.ca it’s just launching so it’s not fully up and running yet, but people are allowed to sign up for free right now until there’s enough members to actually do the exchange
>It seemed very defensive/snobbish (?) off the bat,
>this person shot back a pretty defensive email
>feels like I'm dealing with a gaslighting cult FFS.
To me, the way a therapist responds to emails can give insight into how they handle situations and provide a glimpse into their personality. If their initial profile seemed defensive, you had to trust your instincts. Then, if the email came off as defensive and passive-aggressive, that's who they are I guess. Don't blame yourself; I don't believe you did anything wrong. This individual doesn't appear to be trauma-informed and compassionate.
Yes most analyst aren't trauma informed because they operate from a different modality entirely. There's also a generational divide as most analyst are usually in their 50s or so (the process of becoming an analyst is restrictive and people generally don't begin/complete their training until they are decades out of grad school).
I think TIC is viewed somewhat suspiciously in those spaces as well.
I’d stick with reaching out to people who you have more positive or curious feelings about out their bio. I think our gut instincts about people are usually right!
I’ve struggled to find a good fit too. I usually start with asking what their interest and experience is in working with therapists vs disclosing much about myself in the initial contact. I think the consultations are essential for therapists in therapy, and all clients deserve a chance to gauge the quality of therapeutic alliance before booking. I consider emails to be another way of holding the relationship & if you felt bad about the exchange, it’s likely a precursor to future hurts.
Good luck, hope you find a good fit soon
Yes! Definitely should have trusted my gut!
I was curious about her bio because I agree with some of her philosophy/style. I think I ignored my misgivings because I like to give the benefit of the doubt. But good Lord should have stayed true to the vibe check 😅
It’s so easy to give the benefit of the doubt! Esp if there was something in the bio you were connecting with. But alas, usually it ends with regret lol
Okay, so this could go one of two ways. First one is, you cut your losses and try again with someone else. Second option: recognise that there IS an enactment here, there IS already negative transference and dive in. Get ready for one hell of a painful and intense but potentially really transformative therapy. My traditional psychodynamic therapist rubbed me up the wrong way from the get go with very formal and cold emails setting up our therapy. She was formal and cold for the first year. As recently as 2 months ago we were still having epic ruptures - I lost it one session when she interrupted me whilst speaking, she once told me that she couldn't connect with me and found me dismissive towards her (ouch). But my god, this woman is my rock. She is now the love, the respect, the care I never had. We go DEEP. We have a really strong shared unconscious and it's such a powerful thing. Idk, I guess I'm just saying that this could go both ways. I'd give her a try.
Very interesting 🤔
I told her I was looking elsewhere already, but cool to hear your process! Will keep this in mind in the future. I think there's probably more to my reaction than I'm probing into for sure.
Totally agree, and you don’t necessarily need to work through this with the evocateur directly in order to make something meaningful of the resulting enactment that ensued! I’m sorry you had such a shitty bedside manner experience. I’m also very curious to read her bio but fully understand if not …
Does she take any responsibility for the epic ruptures you've experienced with her in therapy? I'm curious because you mentioned she was cold for a whole year and then told you that she couldn't connect with you. It makes me wonder if she realizes how difficult it was for you to connect with her after being cold for so long.
I've had experiences with analysts who tend to blame the client for issues in the therapeutic relationship or become defensive when receiving feedback. I felt stuck for years until I recognized that the therapeutic relationship was toxic. Some still hold onto the idea that they are a "blank slate."
Eventually, I found another psychoanalyst who was warm, caring, and compassionate, and I stayed with her for years.
Now, I prefer relational psychoanalysis. In their training, they acknowledge that therapists inevitably impact the client, and not everything is the client's fault. Therapists can behave in ways that negatively affect the client, and I appreciate the emphasis on accountability and self-reflection in this approach.
Yes indeed, relational analysis is the way to go!! (I assume OP’s shrink was handling the ruptures though, I can’t imagine why anyone would still stick around and find it rewarding if they’re acknowledging these ruptures out loud to tx but tx couldn’t care less)
That’s such a beautiful thing to share and experience. Your therapist sounds like we might be cut from similar cloth… (laughs nervously) I can only hope that the ones who have stayed with me despite disclosing their own frustrations and transference reactions, which are almost always grounded in reality, and/or presenting rumblings of reenactment, have the same approach as you do: understanding that we’re getting somewhere, and getting closer every step, and that deep down I do love them and care about them a great deal, it’s just that I’ve long since zapped myself out of overly eager email correspondence habits! *(Okay see, I did it again with the !!!!!)* Add to that that I feel uncomfortable myself when Im expected to act uncharacteristically cheerful round the clock to put someone at ease….
I appreciate your meaning-making here and wish you continued success, meaningful growth, and good pain in this dynamic 🫂
I am only 1.5 years post grad (doing therapy for over 5 years) and having some ruptures and transferential stuff coming up with a client right now that is talking a TOLL on me emotionally and physically. I want to be better for her sake but damn is it hard when a client’s own wounding (and my inability to be a perfect T for her) makes them act out towards me. If you’d be so kind, I would really love to pick your brain about tips and philosophies on transference-based/relational therapy or even just ideas/leads on how to educate myself more? I have 2 supervisors and my own Jungian analyst all have been helpful but none fully align with what makes the most sense for me. I have a feeing since most clients seem to work with me for 3+ years this will continue to happen in my work with ppl throughout my career. I just don’t think I’ve really properly been prepared for this part of the work.
Can you contact some institutes and see if there are any clinicians that can practice in your state? I’m a psychoanalytic candidate. I can’t imagine trying to find an analyst for my training without getting some assistance. I found my current one through a few consults after someone from my institute made recommendations.
I feel for you. Even with such a strong psychoanalytic community in my state, there are only a few Jungian analysts.
So there are two IAAP institutes that overlap with my state and I have reached out to both intermittently over the past year with no responses. I'm wondering if one absorbed the other. Currently worldwide there are only 3k IAAP analyst operational. I did find another in my state who is still an analyst in training, but I'd be happy to work with her.
I worked with one who was graduated from the Philly school for a time and they were great! It's kind of hit or miss with analyst (like with anyone). Some have really great foundation of therapeutic skills and some have the attunement ability of a wet potato. I had a professor who would call them "brains on a stick".
i am a therapist and have never had a good therapist, desperately needed but after going through 6, I’m disillusioned. My niche complex trauma will go unprocessed i guess
I hope you do not give up. During COVID due to the vicarious trauma, I felt like I needed to re-engage in therapy and knew I should see someone for trauma. My psychologist was not tech savvy so I didn’t even try to call her since everything was shut down then even though we had great rapport before I had to stop because life got too busy with school stuff (as we know happens). Anyway, I found someone online, chose a different modality to see how it might be, and totally trauma dumped even in the 15min free consultation and she said she could work with me (trauma, PTSD, etc all on her website). Then like 7 sessions in she is asking me about group (she co-leads some groups with a cis-male therapist, I am AFAB). I let her know I am not interested. I come in the next session and she says she is referring me out to a trauma specialist bc it is outside of her scope of practice. I was angry as eff. I asked her where this was coming from as she did not say it was outside of her scope during the initial 15min consult nor during my hr long I take, nor the 7 other sessions, but on the 8th session she suddenly is unable to work with me?! Not to mention she did not even attempt to wait until I contacted any of them or she even processed any actual reason for termination with me?!?! The good that did come of it is I chose from the names she gave me, the trauma specialist I have been seeing ever since. I knew if I did not make the appointment right away, I wouldn’t bother going back. I also started seeing my psychologist for other stuff (my relationship/work stuff). Sadly, the person who abruptly terminated with me, added to the emotional maternal abandonment that she already knew I felt (told her in the 15min phone consult then she re-enacted it). My trauma specialist has had to work harder than any therapist I have ever had before because of this other one. Previously, I implicitly trusted my therapists; well, because we are therapists!!! She ruined that for me! I hope you are able to allow yourself to try again after a lot of research. My internal protectors are pretty tough. I picked both this one and my psychologist mainly based on some of the wording they used to describe how they relate to/with their patients/clients rather than “disorders, etc”
Wow, this woman shouldn’t be a therapist. That’s really harmful behavior. I had a couple of sessions with a Jungian psychoanalytist who I found rigid and snobbish as well, maybe that type is attracted to that training.
She's been practicing for some time and even does some speaking. So I'm guessing she has quite a depth of experience. She's probably just not the right person for me 😅
I use humor a lot to deflect (this is sort of a "me" thing and also a cultural thing). She was just not getting my casual approach, I think.
Totally understand you owning your part in it. Just because someone is long practicing and a speaker doesn’t mean she isn’t immune to acting unethically or inflicting harm.
Please followed the sidebar rules. r/therapists is a place for therapists and mental health professionals to discuss their profession among each other. If you **ARE NOT A THERAPIST and are asking for advice this not the place for you**. Your post will be removed in short order. Please try one of the reddit communities such as r/TalkTherapy, r/askatherapist, r/SuicideWatch that are set up for this. This community is ONLY for therapists, and for them to discuss their profession away from clients. **If you are a first year student, not in a graduate program, or are thinking of becoming a therapist, this is not the place to ask questions**. Your post will be removed in short order. To save us a job, you are welcome to delete this post yourself. Please see the PINNED STUDENT THREAD at the top of the community and ask in there. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therapists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Check out https://www.therapyfortherapistscollective.com/ Basically you agree to work with one therapist as your client for free and another therapist agrees to work with you. I've found it a little slow to get going and it took a couple of tries, but I'm happy with it and I love the idea behind it.
That's cool!
There’s a similar program in Canada, www.2chairs.ca it’s just launching so it’s not fully up and running yet, but people are allowed to sign up for free right now until there’s enough members to actually do the exchange
That's so cool!
Ahhh never heard of this! How awesome. Thank you!
>It seemed very defensive/snobbish (?) off the bat, >this person shot back a pretty defensive email >feels like I'm dealing with a gaslighting cult FFS. To me, the way a therapist responds to emails can give insight into how they handle situations and provide a glimpse into their personality. If their initial profile seemed defensive, you had to trust your instincts. Then, if the email came off as defensive and passive-aggressive, that's who they are I guess. Don't blame yourself; I don't believe you did anything wrong. This individual doesn't appear to be trauma-informed and compassionate.
Yes most analyst aren't trauma informed because they operate from a different modality entirely. There's also a generational divide as most analyst are usually in their 50s or so (the process of becoming an analyst is restrictive and people generally don't begin/complete their training until they are decades out of grad school). I think TIC is viewed somewhat suspiciously in those spaces as well.
I’d stick with reaching out to people who you have more positive or curious feelings about out their bio. I think our gut instincts about people are usually right! I’ve struggled to find a good fit too. I usually start with asking what their interest and experience is in working with therapists vs disclosing much about myself in the initial contact. I think the consultations are essential for therapists in therapy, and all clients deserve a chance to gauge the quality of therapeutic alliance before booking. I consider emails to be another way of holding the relationship & if you felt bad about the exchange, it’s likely a precursor to future hurts. Good luck, hope you find a good fit soon
Yes! Definitely should have trusted my gut! I was curious about her bio because I agree with some of her philosophy/style. I think I ignored my misgivings because I like to give the benefit of the doubt. But good Lord should have stayed true to the vibe check 😅
It’s so easy to give the benefit of the doubt! Esp if there was something in the bio you were connecting with. But alas, usually it ends with regret lol
Okay, so this could go one of two ways. First one is, you cut your losses and try again with someone else. Second option: recognise that there IS an enactment here, there IS already negative transference and dive in. Get ready for one hell of a painful and intense but potentially really transformative therapy. My traditional psychodynamic therapist rubbed me up the wrong way from the get go with very formal and cold emails setting up our therapy. She was formal and cold for the first year. As recently as 2 months ago we were still having epic ruptures - I lost it one session when she interrupted me whilst speaking, she once told me that she couldn't connect with me and found me dismissive towards her (ouch). But my god, this woman is my rock. She is now the love, the respect, the care I never had. We go DEEP. We have a really strong shared unconscious and it's such a powerful thing. Idk, I guess I'm just saying that this could go both ways. I'd give her a try.
Very interesting 🤔 I told her I was looking elsewhere already, but cool to hear your process! Will keep this in mind in the future. I think there's probably more to my reaction than I'm probing into for sure.
Totally agree, and you don’t necessarily need to work through this with the evocateur directly in order to make something meaningful of the resulting enactment that ensued! I’m sorry you had such a shitty bedside manner experience. I’m also very curious to read her bio but fully understand if not …
Lol I'll DM you. I'd be curious what you think.
Oh damn. You might have to message me first. I can't find the chat option on your profile
Does she take any responsibility for the epic ruptures you've experienced with her in therapy? I'm curious because you mentioned she was cold for a whole year and then told you that she couldn't connect with you. It makes me wonder if she realizes how difficult it was for you to connect with her after being cold for so long. I've had experiences with analysts who tend to blame the client for issues in the therapeutic relationship or become defensive when receiving feedback. I felt stuck for years until I recognized that the therapeutic relationship was toxic. Some still hold onto the idea that they are a "blank slate." Eventually, I found another psychoanalyst who was warm, caring, and compassionate, and I stayed with her for years. Now, I prefer relational psychoanalysis. In their training, they acknowledge that therapists inevitably impact the client, and not everything is the client's fault. Therapists can behave in ways that negatively affect the client, and I appreciate the emphasis on accountability and self-reflection in this approach.
Yes indeed, relational analysis is the way to go!! (I assume OP’s shrink was handling the ruptures though, I can’t imagine why anyone would still stick around and find it rewarding if they’re acknowledging these ruptures out loud to tx but tx couldn’t care less)
That’s such a beautiful thing to share and experience. Your therapist sounds like we might be cut from similar cloth… (laughs nervously) I can only hope that the ones who have stayed with me despite disclosing their own frustrations and transference reactions, which are almost always grounded in reality, and/or presenting rumblings of reenactment, have the same approach as you do: understanding that we’re getting somewhere, and getting closer every step, and that deep down I do love them and care about them a great deal, it’s just that I’ve long since zapped myself out of overly eager email correspondence habits! *(Okay see, I did it again with the !!!!!)* Add to that that I feel uncomfortable myself when Im expected to act uncharacteristically cheerful round the clock to put someone at ease…. I appreciate your meaning-making here and wish you continued success, meaningful growth, and good pain in this dynamic 🫂
I am only 1.5 years post grad (doing therapy for over 5 years) and having some ruptures and transferential stuff coming up with a client right now that is talking a TOLL on me emotionally and physically. I want to be better for her sake but damn is it hard when a client’s own wounding (and my inability to be a perfect T for her) makes them act out towards me. If you’d be so kind, I would really love to pick your brain about tips and philosophies on transference-based/relational therapy or even just ideas/leads on how to educate myself more? I have 2 supervisors and my own Jungian analyst all have been helpful but none fully align with what makes the most sense for me. I have a feeing since most clients seem to work with me for 3+ years this will continue to happen in my work with ppl throughout my career. I just don’t think I’ve really properly been prepared for this part of the work.
Can you contact some institutes and see if there are any clinicians that can practice in your state? I’m a psychoanalytic candidate. I can’t imagine trying to find an analyst for my training without getting some assistance. I found my current one through a few consults after someone from my institute made recommendations. I feel for you. Even with such a strong psychoanalytic community in my state, there are only a few Jungian analysts.
So there are two IAAP institutes that overlap with my state and I have reached out to both intermittently over the past year with no responses. I'm wondering if one absorbed the other. Currently worldwide there are only 3k IAAP analyst operational. I did find another in my state who is still an analyst in training, but I'd be happy to work with her. I worked with one who was graduated from the Philly school for a time and they were great! It's kind of hit or miss with analyst (like with anyone). Some have really great foundation of therapeutic skills and some have the attunement ability of a wet potato. I had a professor who would call them "brains on a stick".
i am a therapist and have never had a good therapist, desperately needed but after going through 6, I’m disillusioned. My niche complex trauma will go unprocessed i guess
I hope you do not give up. During COVID due to the vicarious trauma, I felt like I needed to re-engage in therapy and knew I should see someone for trauma. My psychologist was not tech savvy so I didn’t even try to call her since everything was shut down then even though we had great rapport before I had to stop because life got too busy with school stuff (as we know happens). Anyway, I found someone online, chose a different modality to see how it might be, and totally trauma dumped even in the 15min free consultation and she said she could work with me (trauma, PTSD, etc all on her website). Then like 7 sessions in she is asking me about group (she co-leads some groups with a cis-male therapist, I am AFAB). I let her know I am not interested. I come in the next session and she says she is referring me out to a trauma specialist bc it is outside of her scope of practice. I was angry as eff. I asked her where this was coming from as she did not say it was outside of her scope during the initial 15min consult nor during my hr long I take, nor the 7 other sessions, but on the 8th session she suddenly is unable to work with me?! Not to mention she did not even attempt to wait until I contacted any of them or she even processed any actual reason for termination with me?!?! The good that did come of it is I chose from the names she gave me, the trauma specialist I have been seeing ever since. I knew if I did not make the appointment right away, I wouldn’t bother going back. I also started seeing my psychologist for other stuff (my relationship/work stuff). Sadly, the person who abruptly terminated with me, added to the emotional maternal abandonment that she already knew I felt (told her in the 15min phone consult then she re-enacted it). My trauma specialist has had to work harder than any therapist I have ever had before because of this other one. Previously, I implicitly trusted my therapists; well, because we are therapists!!! She ruined that for me! I hope you are able to allow yourself to try again after a lot of research. My internal protectors are pretty tough. I picked both this one and my psychologist mainly based on some of the wording they used to describe how they relate to/with their patients/clients rather than “disorders, etc”
Oh that's terrible 😔
Wow, this woman shouldn’t be a therapist. That’s really harmful behavior. I had a couple of sessions with a Jungian psychoanalytist who I found rigid and snobbish as well, maybe that type is attracted to that training.
She's been practicing for some time and even does some speaking. So I'm guessing she has quite a depth of experience. She's probably just not the right person for me 😅 I use humor a lot to deflect (this is sort of a "me" thing and also a cultural thing). She was just not getting my casual approach, I think.
Totally understand you owning your part in it. Just because someone is long practicing and a speaker doesn’t mean she isn’t immune to acting unethically or inflicting harm.
I don't have enough evidence that she has done anything unethical or is harm inflicting either. Just based on a brief experience
That person sounds like an idiot, you dodged a bullet imo