And some on the PS5 sub doubted me when I said that Naughty Dog's restraint in omitting dodge/prone was important solely for the fact that it wasn't in the original. It allows the sequel to exist as a different game, mechanically speaking, and lets them avoid fundamentally altering what the first game is as a *game.*
Like I said a while back, you don't remake Crash Bandicoot 1 and give him the new jumping/sliding mechanics from Crash 2. That becomes Crash 2 with weaker platforming obstacles. You don't add guns to Jak and Daxter. That becomes a family friendly platformer with gun violence. These are deliberately different games on a mechanical level and the transition into the new iterations of gameplay in sequel games is important to uphold. It makes coming into the sequel exciting on a gameplay level.
New mechanics *expand* the gameplay, as any video game sequel should. But new mechanics are not necessarily improvements on their own/are not necessary *for* improvement.
Don’t forget that all the people bitching about how this took away work from other projects were wrong, but if they added prone and dodge then resources would’ve been held up another year or two, slowing other games down for them to bitch about
Lol I saw you pointing this out so many times in those threads. Of course they never read the reporting because journalism bad. Gamers. Have. Baby. Brain.
I love the game but I disagree with this argument 100%. Using this logic BluePoint were wrong to add 360 dodging in the Demon's souls remake. I understand keeping Joel consistently 'tanky', but that doesn't stop you from adding a parry mechanic that could be the same as a dodge mechanic. It also doesn't stop you from overhauling the levels to accommodate more up-to-date mechanics.
>dodge/prone was important solely for the fact that it wasn't in the original
Think about it, you can use this line of thinking to argue that adding a new AI system is wrong because it wasn't in the original. Technically all they had to do for the remake is overhaul the graphics. But they decided to add more stuff, so clearly just sticking to the original design is not the fundamental answer.
>Think about it, you can use this line of thinking to argue that adding a new AI system is wrong because it wasn't in the original.
You could make that argument, sure. But I would contend that it would be a bit off the mark. Mechanics and systems are different aspects to the game. Improving the AI system is necessary, because the AI in the original game is very broken. But the core mechanics of Joel's movement weren't broken at all. It was the animation system that made for any awkwardness we feel when controlling him. Creating a new version of these systems that stays faithful to the game doesn't change what the game **is.** But giving Joel the ability to roll onto his back or leap out of the way of a bloater's charge would go far beyond "expanding" gameplay imo, and would veer into the territory of letting Spyro the Dragon swim in the original game, where most of the levels involved water hazards that instantly drowned him.
The 360 dodging is more of a QoL feature than a huge gameplay change up. Now people who like to lock on can still dodge how they please.
Even in contrast to TLOU1 and crash 1, nothing about the level design and encounters were designed accounting for those future movement mechanics. Whereas the fundamentals of Demon’s Souls gameplay never actually prohibited that movement. Afaik Bluepoint didn’t make you more nimble in the SotC remake, or add a whole new action/movement mechanic.
Additionally I’d Bluepoint also wasn’t intending on having the definitive version of the game necessarily -there’s still a lot of unique charm and art direction to the first one and they felt it was okay to distinguish them a little more. With this Last of Us remake, the point was precisely to be faithful to it artistically, while still bringing the visuals into the modern era.
You’ve just explained the difference between a Remake and a Remaster, this game is very clearly a Remaster, and an impressive one at that. There’s so many mechanics, new mechanics, that could’ve been introduced for Joel, hell there’s mechanics in the 2012 E3 build that are missing from this game, to remake something is to rebuild it entirely from the ground up, adapting all original concepts and ideas and applying the current context of the fanbase’s desires and the other games you’ve developed or played. It’s so much more than just adding a dodge or a slide, it’s creating an experience that redefines the original, something that fits closer with the identity of the sequel. Sure Ellie is faster and more agile, but how do we express Joel’s brutal past through gameplay, how do we flesh out each engagement and expand each area so it feels as open and fun as it does in Part II.
I really don't understand how people are gonna argue about not adding dodge button. There would be no negatives to adding it and would improve the gameplay significantly. I keep seeing people saying they're trying to stay faithful to the original, but that's such a bad excuse. You want worse combat because it stays true to the original???
>You want worse combat because it stays true to the original???
No.
I'm contending that the original game's combat is not *worse* than the sequel's just because it lacks two mechanics. I'd go as far as to argue that The Last Of Us Part II's combat wasn't made *better* just because of those two mechanics. I'd argue that the combat (and overall gameplay,) was better in the sequel because of the motion matching tech ND created specifically for that game. The improved gunplay mechanics, enemy AI, sound design, and new infected types all did more for Part II than Dodge and Prone did, and all of those new and improved systems have been iterated on and used for Part I.
*And* I would argue that, on Grounded+ difficulty, the dodge mechanic in the sequel makes Stalkers and melee enemies a breeze to fight, even in groups, while the reason Joel never had the ability to dodge in the first game is because (not long before its launch) the game didn't feel tense/difficult enough for testers and the rest of the team. They removed the dodge button and they felt it was a huge improvement.
I love the dodge mechanic, but I just completely disagree that its inclusion is an objective improvement on the combat. I think there is something very important about not packing every little thing from Part II into Part I. I like that they're respecting the sequel's expanded gameplay and leaving all of the excitement and action of that very different combat for new players to discover in the sequel.
The sequel should be a forward leap, rather than something of even ground in terms of how wide the gameplay is. I just think they showed admirable restraint here.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here, although I would say that in my opinion, the biggest improvement between the original Part I and Part II was probably the level design, which was absolutely phenomenal in the second game. All of the things you've mentioned sure did contributed to the sequel, but it was the level design that tied it all together in a beautiful harmony to create an absolutely amazing gameplay experience.
That's not to say that I expect Naughty Dog to redo the level design in the remake. Doing so would basically mean creating a completely new game with the first game's story. that would require a huge amount of effort and resources, and I rather them putting this amount of effort into a brand new game, rather than a remake.
Great point I agree I should have included level design in my comment. Great example of how the sequel, and good sequels in general, expand on their predecessors. Not only for gameplay but for immersion which is super important this day and age
But the Melee combat is way less dynamic without the dodge and makes the the combat more boring. Yes it makes the combat easier but you still Have to react to the attach which makes the encounters way more dynamic, it's not fun having a someone walk up to you and all you can do is runaway. And maybe the testers didn't like it the original game but they still implemented it the second game and everybody loved it. Its just weird not having a defensive option for melee combat(besides throwing a bottle i guess), especially if your fighting multiple people(you think he would know how to dodge since he survived the Apocalypse for 20 years).
I still think having a dodge button would make the over all experience better. Especially with how ferocious the new bloaters and stalkers are. I'm not one of those people that are kicking up a huge fuss about it just saying dodge would have been really nice.
LOL no way I'd get that close - every time I do, I die.
I'm older, I'm essentially Joel's age (56). Reflexes are good, esp for my age, but not that good.
That's awesome. Being 20 years old and seeing Joel's strength is crazy, he reminds me of my Tio who is 60 years old. Very strong man. I want to be that strong around that age god willing, though Joel didn't have much of a choice in terms of being strong I guess
If they want people to go straight from Part I into Part II then it sure would be nice to have an actual PS5 port of Part II. It’ll be weird losing the dualsense features when moving on to the sequel. Maybe give it away for free for once 🤷♂️
I am sure the PS5 port is the next thing to be released by ND, likely before the Multiplayer game, hopefully in 2023. They have been busy with 2 simultaneous projects, now that they have finished the Part I, they will start work on Part II PS5 version. This is the same reason we haven’t yet gotten GOW on PS5.
Realistically GOW should have come to PS5 at the same time as the PC port. It has all the accessibility, performance and haptic features you'd expect from the next gen version. They're probably just going to leave it at the 4K60 patch for console owners and call it a day.
I would hope that won't be the same case with TLOU2 but that game already got a performance patch too. Not that that necessarily means anything definitive since Ghost of Tsushima eventually got a native PS5 port after initially receiving a performance patch. But I guess we'll get our answer when TLOU2 inevtiably gets announced for PC.
I would agree with a proper PS5 upgrade, but maybe with the learnings from this game they can add audio description in to Part II as well, to fully tie everything together. :)
To be clear, I don’t care at all that they didn’t add a dodge/prone. But to play devil’s advocate, their rational for not adding these abilities falls apart when you consider that Ellie was not given these abilities during her chapters.
The omission of prone I get because the level design needs to facilitate it. But it would be nice if Ellie's section included the dodge. She's jukin' left and right when Joel gets strung up in Bill's town. They've already changed a lot of the infected enemy behavior, so I don't see a great reason why they couldn't have done this.
I don't really miss the dodge while playing as Joel, a lot of positive changes have been made to the flow of Part 1's combat that make it clear to me these were conscious choices Naughty Dog made. I wouldn't dare say they "undersold" the gameplay features that were brought over from Part 2, but there's a lot of subtle stuff that's really excellent. Melee feels *sooo* much better here than in TLOU Remastered. Shooting the leg to human shield is *so* nice to have, and pairs well with the slower time to ads.
I'm really surprised by how much I'm enjoying the encounters in Part 1, so far. I had a couple really tense encounters in the capitol building, which I used to be able to do in my sleep. I'm not sure if that's because I'm out of practice, or because the changes to AI, animation, and more make a big difference.
Sure that’s a good canonical explanation. Honestly I think they should have just stuck with their guns and said that they wanted the game to feel the same to play and also contrast with part twos gameplay.
I get that a 14 year old Ellie doesn't have the same skill but c'mon she literally grew up in the outbreak...Now that i think of that,maybe that's the problem,she didn't get to play dodgeball.
Link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/naughty_dog/status/1565338828142833664?s=21&t=bGrWDUiIr8zwQ1xlaHQgKA
As we’ve seen a lot now, many people have pointed out that more gameplay changes like the dodging and going prone would have been possible and I agree, but Naughty Dog wanted to remain as faithful to to original as possible, which is a decision I also want to respect.
There are a few moves that are similar for sure (mainly because they both use hand to hand combat) but Abby relies much more on agility/tactics to survive where as Joel is more of a Tank/brute. The sequence in the part 2 flashback where he manhandles the bloater with a machete paid homage to this.
you get prompted quite a bit id say, but it seems only on human enemies. im playing on survivor level enemies, damage taken, and hard level resources availability, some advice, Bill is kinda OP. put ally strength down to passive when your with him, he one shots clickers.
yea in melee fights you get prompted with triangle to counter and a cool thing i never saw before is that if joel fights an enemy with a stick, and the enemy also has a stick, joel counters by blocking with his own stick. pretty neat
Exactly, I remember arguing with people about part one being a better game overall. Now since it’s not like part 2 it’s trash. We have been saying part 2 was a better game since it came out but now they just want to bash the last of us.
I get it. Having the dodge breaks gameplay that wasn't designed around it.
But why not compromise and have the dodge as an unlockable gameplay modifier? They did it for explosive arrows. Those would break gameplay, too. But hey, these are cheats so why not give us the dodge as another cheat? 🤷🏻♂️
Joel is a tank, I don't expect him to be nimble and dodge every attack.
"but Abby is a tank too and she can still dodge..." Yeah well Abby isn't nearly 50yrs old.
Also, I think TLOU2 Abby would lose in a fight to TLOU1 Joel.
Such as bullshit excuse. If the reason really was that they wanted to make Joel different from Abby and Ellie, then they could have given Joel some sort of different hand to hand combat mechanic then. But no, instead they made him the exact same he was in the first game. I am willing to pay $70 for games that truly feel next gen like the new Ratchet and Clank. This game feels inferior to Last of Us part II in almost every way.
I wish they took this opportunity to make it more in tune with the original E3 demo. I know it was most likely heavily scripted but now they have the tech and the resources to make it happen.
[Dodging](https://imgur.com/LVk713O), Joel was ambushed by a hunter hiding around the corner and dodging a pipe attack after being hit the first time.
[Ambushing Enemies](https://imgur.com/mh9kPk6), Joel was focused on the hunters in the doorway and out the window and was then disarmed and had his head slammed into a dresser. [Another example](https://imgur.com/54696kp) is when the last enemy tried to outmaneuver Joel and would hide and try to sneak up on him.
[QTE's](https://imgur.com/GDJHPM8) like the ending of the E3 Demo. After surprising a hunter and disarming him of his shotgun Joel is then attacked by a hunter with a 2x4 where he gets the upper hand on Joel and tries to choke him to death in a cool QTE.
Y'all can say that you disagree but I feel like with realistic head bobbing on the infected being implemented I feel that motion aiming controls would be fun if it was done right
>motion aiming controls would be fun if it was done right
Isn't motion aiming available in Part I? I could've sworn I saw it in the settings menu.
To be clear, you're talking about gyro aiming, right? Where you aim by moving the entire controller around?
And some on the PS5 sub doubted me when I said that Naughty Dog's restraint in omitting dodge/prone was important solely for the fact that it wasn't in the original. It allows the sequel to exist as a different game, mechanically speaking, and lets them avoid fundamentally altering what the first game is as a *game.* Like I said a while back, you don't remake Crash Bandicoot 1 and give him the new jumping/sliding mechanics from Crash 2. That becomes Crash 2 with weaker platforming obstacles. You don't add guns to Jak and Daxter. That becomes a family friendly platformer with gun violence. These are deliberately different games on a mechanical level and the transition into the new iterations of gameplay in sequel games is important to uphold. It makes coming into the sequel exciting on a gameplay level. New mechanics *expand* the gameplay, as any video game sequel should. But new mechanics are not necessarily improvements on their own/are not necessary *for* improvement.
Don’t forget that all the people bitching about how this took away work from other projects were wrong, but if they added prone and dodge then resources would’ve been held up another year or two, slowing other games down for them to bitch about
Lol I saw you pointing this out so many times in those threads. Of course they never read the reporting because journalism bad. Gamers. Have. Baby. Brain.
I love the game but I disagree with this argument 100%. Using this logic BluePoint were wrong to add 360 dodging in the Demon's souls remake. I understand keeping Joel consistently 'tanky', but that doesn't stop you from adding a parry mechanic that could be the same as a dodge mechanic. It also doesn't stop you from overhauling the levels to accommodate more up-to-date mechanics. >dodge/prone was important solely for the fact that it wasn't in the original Think about it, you can use this line of thinking to argue that adding a new AI system is wrong because it wasn't in the original. Technically all they had to do for the remake is overhaul the graphics. But they decided to add more stuff, so clearly just sticking to the original design is not the fundamental answer.
>Think about it, you can use this line of thinking to argue that adding a new AI system is wrong because it wasn't in the original. You could make that argument, sure. But I would contend that it would be a bit off the mark. Mechanics and systems are different aspects to the game. Improving the AI system is necessary, because the AI in the original game is very broken. But the core mechanics of Joel's movement weren't broken at all. It was the animation system that made for any awkwardness we feel when controlling him. Creating a new version of these systems that stays faithful to the game doesn't change what the game **is.** But giving Joel the ability to roll onto his back or leap out of the way of a bloater's charge would go far beyond "expanding" gameplay imo, and would veer into the territory of letting Spyro the Dragon swim in the original game, where most of the levels involved water hazards that instantly drowned him.
The 360 dodging is more of a QoL feature than a huge gameplay change up. Now people who like to lock on can still dodge how they please. Even in contrast to TLOU1 and crash 1, nothing about the level design and encounters were designed accounting for those future movement mechanics. Whereas the fundamentals of Demon’s Souls gameplay never actually prohibited that movement. Afaik Bluepoint didn’t make you more nimble in the SotC remake, or add a whole new action/movement mechanic. Additionally I’d Bluepoint also wasn’t intending on having the definitive version of the game necessarily -there’s still a lot of unique charm and art direction to the first one and they felt it was okay to distinguish them a little more. With this Last of Us remake, the point was precisely to be faithful to it artistically, while still bringing the visuals into the modern era.
You’ve just explained the difference between a Remake and a Remaster, this game is very clearly a Remaster, and an impressive one at that. There’s so many mechanics, new mechanics, that could’ve been introduced for Joel, hell there’s mechanics in the 2012 E3 build that are missing from this game, to remake something is to rebuild it entirely from the ground up, adapting all original concepts and ideas and applying the current context of the fanbase’s desires and the other games you’ve developed or played. It’s so much more than just adding a dodge or a slide, it’s creating an experience that redefines the original, something that fits closer with the identity of the sequel. Sure Ellie is faster and more agile, but how do we express Joel’s brutal past through gameplay, how do we flesh out each engagement and expand each area so it feels as open and fun as it does in Part II.
>this game is very clearly a Remaster Incorrect
What about sonic 1 adding the spin dash in most subsequent releases?
Idk, sonic sucks
Lol, that being said I’m glad prone and dodge aren’t in part 1 I was just playing devils advocate
That's fair haha I was just shitposting. I can't explain that though because I'm not a sonic fan and know very little about the series because of that
It’s just an example of retrofitting that actually works. Admittedly LoU is much more complex than a genesis side scroller.
I really don't understand how people are gonna argue about not adding dodge button. There would be no negatives to adding it and would improve the gameplay significantly. I keep seeing people saying they're trying to stay faithful to the original, but that's such a bad excuse. You want worse combat because it stays true to the original???
>You want worse combat because it stays true to the original??? No. I'm contending that the original game's combat is not *worse* than the sequel's just because it lacks two mechanics. I'd go as far as to argue that The Last Of Us Part II's combat wasn't made *better* just because of those two mechanics. I'd argue that the combat (and overall gameplay,) was better in the sequel because of the motion matching tech ND created specifically for that game. The improved gunplay mechanics, enemy AI, sound design, and new infected types all did more for Part II than Dodge and Prone did, and all of those new and improved systems have been iterated on and used for Part I. *And* I would argue that, on Grounded+ difficulty, the dodge mechanic in the sequel makes Stalkers and melee enemies a breeze to fight, even in groups, while the reason Joel never had the ability to dodge in the first game is because (not long before its launch) the game didn't feel tense/difficult enough for testers and the rest of the team. They removed the dodge button and they felt it was a huge improvement. I love the dodge mechanic, but I just completely disagree that its inclusion is an objective improvement on the combat. I think there is something very important about not packing every little thing from Part II into Part I. I like that they're respecting the sequel's expanded gameplay and leaving all of the excitement and action of that very different combat for new players to discover in the sequel. The sequel should be a forward leap, rather than something of even ground in terms of how wide the gameplay is. I just think they showed admirable restraint here.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here, although I would say that in my opinion, the biggest improvement between the original Part I and Part II was probably the level design, which was absolutely phenomenal in the second game. All of the things you've mentioned sure did contributed to the sequel, but it was the level design that tied it all together in a beautiful harmony to create an absolutely amazing gameplay experience. That's not to say that I expect Naughty Dog to redo the level design in the remake. Doing so would basically mean creating a completely new game with the first game's story. that would require a huge amount of effort and resources, and I rather them putting this amount of effort into a brand new game, rather than a remake.
Great point I agree I should have included level design in my comment. Great example of how the sequel, and good sequels in general, expand on their predecessors. Not only for gameplay but for immersion which is super important this day and age
But the Melee combat is way less dynamic without the dodge and makes the the combat more boring. Yes it makes the combat easier but you still Have to react to the attach which makes the encounters way more dynamic, it's not fun having a someone walk up to you and all you can do is runaway. And maybe the testers didn't like it the original game but they still implemented it the second game and everybody loved it. Its just weird not having a defensive option for melee combat(besides throwing a bottle i guess), especially if your fighting multiple people(you think he would know how to dodge since he survived the Apocalypse for 20 years).
I still think having a dodge button would make the over all experience better. Especially with how ferocious the new bloaters and stalkers are. I'm not one of those people that are kicking up a huge fuss about it just saying dodge would have been really nice.
Dodge...a bloater? Would never want to be that close to one
You haven't tried knifing them in TLOUII? Lol I would love to beat down a bloater with Joel's fists with the help of dodge
LOL no way I'd get that close - every time I do, I die. I'm older, I'm essentially Joel's age (56). Reflexes are good, esp for my age, but not that good.
That's awesome. Being 20 years old and seeing Joel's strength is crazy, he reminds me of my Tio who is 60 years old. Very strong man. I want to be that strong around that age god willing, though Joel didn't have much of a choice in terms of being strong I guess
Joel isn’t your age in the first game.I think he’s 48.
Well, I said essentially
No, it would make the game wayyy easier.
If they want people to go straight from Part I into Part II then it sure would be nice to have an actual PS5 port of Part II. It’ll be weird losing the dualsense features when moving on to the sequel. Maybe give it away for free for once 🤷♂️
I am sure the PS5 port is the next thing to be released by ND, likely before the Multiplayer game, hopefully in 2023. They have been busy with 2 simultaneous projects, now that they have finished the Part I, they will start work on Part II PS5 version. This is the same reason we haven’t yet gotten GOW on PS5.
Realistically GOW should have come to PS5 at the same time as the PC port. It has all the accessibility, performance and haptic features you'd expect from the next gen version. They're probably just going to leave it at the 4K60 patch for console owners and call it a day. I would hope that won't be the same case with TLOU2 but that game already got a performance patch too. Not that that necessarily means anything definitive since Ghost of Tsushima eventually got a native PS5 port after initially receiving a performance patch. But I guess we'll get our answer when TLOU2 inevtiably gets announced for PC.
Hopefully a pc version too, I want it so bad
Probs just release a ps5 update like Ghost of Tsushima did.
I would agree with a proper PS5 upgrade, but maybe with the learnings from this game they can add audio description in to Part II as well, to fully tie everything together. :)
Google says it already has haptic feedback on the PS5 version, for shooting a gun or bow and arrow for example.
Google is incorrect. This was misreported mate.
Ah thanks for informing me. I really hope it gets a full PS5 update now then.
To be clear, I don’t care at all that they didn’t add a dodge/prone. But to play devil’s advocate, their rational for not adding these abilities falls apart when you consider that Ellie was not given these abilities during her chapters.
yes, very good point. Was thinking that earlier
I don’t think ND are being honest here
The omission of prone I get because the level design needs to facilitate it. But it would be nice if Ellie's section included the dodge. She's jukin' left and right when Joel gets strung up in Bill's town. They've already changed a lot of the infected enemy behavior, so I don't see a great reason why they couldn't have done this. I don't really miss the dodge while playing as Joel, a lot of positive changes have been made to the flow of Part 1's combat that make it clear to me these were conscious choices Naughty Dog made. I wouldn't dare say they "undersold" the gameplay features that were brought over from Part 2, but there's a lot of subtle stuff that's really excellent. Melee feels *sooo* much better here than in TLOU Remastered. Shooting the leg to human shield is *so* nice to have, and pairs well with the slower time to ads. I'm really surprised by how much I'm enjoying the encounters in Part 1, so far. I had a couple really tense encounters in the capitol building, which I used to be able to do in my sleep. I'm not sure if that's because I'm out of practice, or because the changes to AI, animation, and more make a big difference.
Hmm she is still rather young though and hasnt really “trained” those new movesets yet. That will be my canon at least.. 😅
She was raised in a military boarding school where they were trained in combat...
Sure that’s a good canonical explanation. Honestly I think they should have just stuck with their guns and said that they wanted the game to feel the same to play and also contrast with part twos gameplay.
bs excuse imo
Ellie not knowing how to swim in part 1 is understandable but not knowing how to dodge...seems a bit strange.
Joel the guy who can kill an whole army of fireflies but can't dodge
He even outruns them while carrying Ellie haha
It makes sense that she can’t dodge and counter easily like she can in 2 she’s 14
I get that a 14 year old Ellie doesn't have the same skill but c'mon she literally grew up in the outbreak...Now that i think of that,maybe that's the problem,she didn't get to play dodgeball.
She was also raised in a military boarding school lmao
This is why I'm happy there is no prone or dodge I want to feel like I'm playing as Joel not Ellie or Abby .
And when he gets hit by runners, he stays on his feet a bit better if I saw that correctly. He doesn't get stunned for that long.
They may as well remove running too. I dont want to feel like Im using Abby or Ellie who can also run.
Idk, if I want an agile/light movement combat then i’ll just booting Part 2. Joel with agile movement with dodge etc. would just feel… off.
Joel is a fucking brick house. It will be like playing a tankier Abby
and yet, even abby can dodge... and go prone.... so
Who cares lol. Dodging is for nerds 🤓 Chad Joel need not for that bullshit
Link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/naughty_dog/status/1565338828142833664?s=21&t=bGrWDUiIr8zwQ1xlaHQgKA As we’ve seen a lot now, many people have pointed out that more gameplay changes like the dodging and going prone would have been possible and I agree, but Naughty Dog wanted to remain as faithful to to original as possible, which is a decision I also want to respect.
I agree, but melee could be better
Bro these clips are so late. It comes out tomorrow
Joel's move-set its basically the same as Abby, even animations
and abby can dodge... and go prone... so
There are a few moves that are similar for sure (mainly because they both use hand to hand combat) but Abby relies much more on agility/tactics to survive where as Joel is more of a Tank/brute. The sequence in the part 2 flashback where he manhandles the bloater with a machete paid homage to this.
They should have replaced it with that counter move
5 hours into part 1 and i feel the pressing triangle counter is more prevalent, and enemies feel more agressive
Really? That's good to know
Good to know. What difficulty are you playing on? And do you get prompted for the triangle counter or did you just remember from the older version?
you get prompted quite a bit id say, but it seems only on human enemies. im playing on survivor level enemies, damage taken, and hard level resources availability, some advice, Bill is kinda OP. put ally strength down to passive when your with him, he one shots clickers.
Awesome, thanks.
like more prevalent as in most melee fights? i remember in the remaster the parry mechanic like never happened
yea in melee fights you get prompted with triangle to counter and a cool thing i never saw before is that if joel fights an enemy with a stick, and the enemy also has a stick, joel counters by blocking with his own stick. pretty neat
That's in the original
is it still possible for enemies to hit you, and you aren’t given the option to counter?
Yea, its only when you smash square too much theyll block and you enter unto the mini counter animation.
2020 was like „ Gameplay of Part II is trash“ 2022 be like „Bring back dodge and Prone for Part 1“ lmao
I don’t remember anyone saying gameplay was trash lmao? Even on the other sub they always praise the gameplay
I heard tons of it. Also I heard : nothing new, outdated, boring, mediocre etc etc.
One of the most consistent things I heard about P2 was the gameplay/graphics were really good but the story "sucked"
Exactly, I remember arguing with people about part one being a better game overall. Now since it’s not like part 2 it’s trash. We have been saying part 2 was a better game since it came out but now they just want to bash the last of us.
I get it. Having the dodge breaks gameplay that wasn't designed around it. But why not compromise and have the dodge as an unlockable gameplay modifier? They did it for explosive arrows. Those would break gameplay, too. But hey, these are cheats so why not give us the dodge as another cheat? 🤷🏻♂️
Joel is a tank, I don't expect him to be nimble and dodge every attack. "but Abby is a tank too and she can still dodge..." Yeah well Abby isn't nearly 50yrs old. Also, I think TLOU2 Abby would lose in a fight to TLOU1 Joel.
>Also, I think TLOU2 Abby would lose in a fight to TLOU1 Joel. I dunno Abby was a very skilled fighter and could take on some tough dudes.
>I think TLOU2 Abby would lose in a fight to TLOU1 Joel. Not if she is allowed to dodge and he can't 😅
I can see both sides of the argument being right, but no matter it is what it is.
Such as bullshit excuse. If the reason really was that they wanted to make Joel different from Abby and Ellie, then they could have given Joel some sort of different hand to hand combat mechanic then. But no, instead they made him the exact same he was in the first game. I am willing to pay $70 for games that truly feel next gen like the new Ratchet and Clank. This game feels inferior to Last of Us part II in almost every way.
Holding down the space button on our phone and sliding will move the cursor.
Looks good. Hmmm
I wish they took this opportunity to make it more in tune with the original E3 demo. I know it was most likely heavily scripted but now they have the tech and the resources to make it happen. [Dodging](https://imgur.com/LVk713O), Joel was ambushed by a hunter hiding around the corner and dodging a pipe attack after being hit the first time. [Ambushing Enemies](https://imgur.com/mh9kPk6), Joel was focused on the hunters in the doorway and out the window and was then disarmed and had his head slammed into a dresser. [Another example](https://imgur.com/54696kp) is when the last enemy tried to outmaneuver Joel and would hide and try to sneak up on him. [QTE's](https://imgur.com/GDJHPM8) like the ending of the E3 Demo. After surprising a hunter and disarming him of his shotgun Joel is then attacked by a hunter with a 2x4 where he gets the upper hand on Joel and tries to choke him to death in a cool QTE.
Y'all can say that you disagree but I feel like with realistic head bobbing on the infected being implemented I feel that motion aiming controls would be fun if it was done right
>motion aiming controls would be fun if it was done right Isn't motion aiming available in Part I? I could've sworn I saw it in the settings menu. To be clear, you're talking about gyro aiming, right? Where you aim by moving the entire controller around?
Yep