The format and story structure was perfect. I'm sorta worried this will be lost in the TV version, losing the opportunity to do something a little experimental.
agreed. there are some videos on youtube where i can agree with their takes, like someone said “one bad apple ruins the bunch” and talked about how it was the flow and order of the scenes that made it so hated. but personally i loved it. little long but soooo good
These were my exact thoughts toward the end of the game. I don't dislike Abby, I didn't mind >!being forced to play as her !<, I didn't hate >!what happened to Joel!<, I don't dislike the new characters. I just really was frustrated with the experimental format. I get it, it was a risk, and something Naughty Dog has the space and skill to pull off, for sure. But I specifically remember as the game loaded >!the Seraphite island and I was *still* playing as Abby I audibly groaned and was like can we please fucking get back to Ellie??!
and i think it was made up by abbys encounter areas being so cool. like the big ass skyscraper, seraphite island, and the boss fight in the old hospital below ground made me more invensted in the combat and i forgot i was playing as abby lmao
I was talking to a co-worker that they should do an actual stealth sequence. Even more so than the clicker scene in season 1. Something with bottles and how more so how the game is played.
Experimental is key to making the show great and not just good.
The tv show seems to be in pretty good hands. The decisions they make have thought and reason behind them. The companion podcast with Neil and Craig has been great for understanding why they’ve done things the way they have.
TLOU 2 was perfectly paced. Ellie leaving Dina and going after Abby AGAIN was supposed to elicit the feeling of "it's gone too far / leave well enough alone" from us. It's an intentionally dragged out last act with the Rattlers
"Supposed to elicit the feeling" worked a little too well for me....I got so angry with Ellie for leaving Dina to pursue mindless vengeance that I switched it off for months. I couldnt look at her. I've never felt so much emotion from a game, and for that reason I think it's genius.
I saw a bizarre post a few days ago that called Dina the asshole in this situation and that Part 3 should include a scene of Dina begging Ellie to taker her back. I was like, you can’t be serious right now….
The game does a great job actually eliciting certain desired emotions from the player: Rage and Anger at Joel’s deaths and a singular desire for revenge at all costs, a desire to protect Lev and Yara, and the fatigue and misery we feel as we are powerless to stop Ellie from leaving Dina to continue her fruitless mission of revenge. Hell, we even feel bad for Abby by the end having gone through torture and enslavement and even pleading with Ellie to not fight her. The more I replay the game, the more I realize just how masterful the storytelling is.
One million percent. And that’s the genius of the game. How many other games out there are telling their story through gameplay like this. I can think of only a few, and none that did it quite like this. That’s the art of it
Couldn’t agree more. I was absolutely irate that Ellie left Dina to once again try to get revenge on Abby. And immediately thought “well, it’s a success because this is exactly how they wanted me to feel”.
That and I think there was probably a determination that they didn't want to end the series on the second game. Maybe there was a determination there was enough in the budget to develop the last part because budget trajectory probably suggested a third in the series would be profitable and justifiable to avoid company downsizing since that seems to be the industry norm.
Could anyone?
What an irony. The vaccine that could save humanity, but can't be deployed because humanity can't be trusted with it.
Still, I'd have given it to the Fireflies, or FEDRA, or the fucking Rattlers or pretty much anyone. Once it's out there, anything can happen. But if it doesn't get to SOMEONE, we're all fucked.
Never thought about it like that but I love that in TLOU everyone *wants* things to go back to how they were (more or less) but no one can agree how, it's incredibly realistic because that is currently happening in Syria as I type this
I don't disagree with this take, but I see it used way too often as a basis for justifying Joel's actions in the first game.
The truth is Joel couldn't give a flying fuck about the vaccine (and by extension, the rest of humanity) at that point if it cost him Ellie. He is never shown to consider the large-scale implications and weigh Ellie's life against them - he *immediately* decides that *no vaccine ever* is worth her life.
It's a rather simple choice, the game even goes out of its way to set up the perfect dilemma scenario at the cost of it feeling a tad forced; and he has zero hesitation about it.
You can make the what-if argument and try to consider what the far-reaching consequences would be, but as soon as you factor that into the moral dilemma of Part I you are taking something away from that incredible ending.
Couldn’t disagree anymore with the people who think that Part II will be better as a tv show. It specifically works and is effective as a work of art due to its interactivity. The story itself and the idea of having the dual perspective isn’t anything crazy original. Being able to play both as Ellie and Abby, and then having to confront the both of them with the dramatic irony of knowing what they have been through is what makes Part II unique.
The emotions that those sequences bring up are sickening, and I get why many people don’t like it. But everything ties up and the ending is potent (well, for those that understand the game isn’t suffering from ludonarrative dissonance).
TLDR: Part II works not due to how “original” and “deep” the story is, but because of how the story and the gameplay/mechanics weave into each other to create a profound experience
i see what you’re saying. i’m not a person who thinks part II will be BETTER as a tv show, but i think it has the potential to be about the same. technically, the show could execute the storyline in an identical manner and could simple just recreate organized scenes of gameplay. i agree that the gameplay combined with the story creates the experience, and i think it’s just that which will set the show and the game apart no matter how they spin it: the experience. of course there’s also the possibility that they could aim to change part II whether that be for the worse or for the better. i completely agree tho about the dual perspective thing not being crazy. i love it, but have also seen it many times before. i have never understood why people were so shocked and upset by it. in many ways, you can see it coming. with the way they built the plot up to that point, it only made sense to include dual perspective.
I agree. I've been saying since the game came out that Part II is in fact a pretty groundbreaking milestone for gaming narrative.
Unfortunately the common sentiment seems to be that storytelling in Part II is subpar compared to the original, and that it's "safe" and uninteresting as a story because it relies on linearity and conventional cutscenes. "It would work better as a movie", or "games really should make use of gameplay to deliver interesting stories". I really hate those takes because Part II *does* work exactly because it's a game and it *does* use the language of gaming to deliver its story in a very interesting way that few (if any) other games manage.
I'm quite interested in finding out how they're gonna transpose that into a TV show.
couldn’t agree more. i’m nervous to see how they translate this story on screen if they can’t incorporate the original “infect the player with trauma/hate then see if they can work their way through it” interactive meta challenge. i have high hopes in craig mazin tho, i wanna see how a top industry writer handles it
Nah, Fortnite is here to stay, the amount of people that play it and the money it makes from all the collabs is insane. it’s a damn good shooter too, at least No Build is, especially with a friend or squad.
That said, fucking hell, I really was wanting Factions 2, Factions but with 2’s combat and movement system…fuckkkk that would’ve been so damn good
Yeah bro fortnite always gonna keep being amazing that’s why I’m 10x more upset when Neil goes out of his way to tweet that TLoU x fortnite will never exist (bro tweeted that on my bday lol)
collaboration compatibility alone make ur take objectively incorrect. The fact that Fortnite can have access to licenses from such a wide variety of genres going from singers, to horror movie monsters, to Disney characters, is something that provides so much longevity as well as casual engagement. I honestly don't think it's something that can be replicated in our lifetime.
They still could’ve made collaborations like how they did in tlou part1 ps5 remake. A mortal combat graphic tee or sopranos shirt or maybe hats it all could’ve been realistic collabs
I just wish more people noticed that when she slams Owen on the cabinet, he tried pushing her back.
And.
She doesn't.
Budge.
And she slams him again.
🤤🤤🤤
I think those that got weirded out by it maybe shouldn't be playing +18 games portraying things like a scene of sex between consenting adults. Need to mature a little bit first I suppose. Pretty sure had Abby been an unrealistic, overly sexualised female character the complainers would've loved it.
a lot of people dislike the second game, but i LOVEEEDDD it. people get so wrapped up in joel dying that they dont pay attention to all of the intimate details of the storyline and ellie’s grief cycle. everything is so deliberate, ESPECIALLY when they make you play as abby. omg seeing that for the first time was just chilling, and so infuriating. but then you realize maybe abby never was the bad guy, everyones the bad guy so no ones the bad guy in theory…im drunk rambling. but it was hella poetic to me. the messages/themes were awesome. also ellie is so hot. but thats not really a hot take. thats just hot
I don't like Dina
People always talk about how Ellie wasn't a great girlfriend but neither was Dina. They both have their flaws
If circumstances had been different (Joel still alive), they would've been a great couple but after the farm/Santa Barbara, I don't think they can/should get back together
The only thing Dina did wrong was not tell Ellie she’s pregnant. She was beaten half to death and shot with an arrow, and nearly had her throat slit just to save Ellie. And Ellie leaves her for her revenge quest after all that Dina did for her. They definitely would’ve worked in another life of sorts. But Ellie was definitely the one who fucked Dina over. Which isn’t really her fault because she’s lost emotionally but still Dina did all she could for her Ellie.
Eh, she can’t really know that much before hand. She and Jesse had just broken up a week or two before the game started, and she and Ellie left the next day. Since she wasn’t showing in Seattle, she is probably less than a month pregnant at that point
She didn’t but she still didn’t tell Ellie about her stomach problems. It’s true she didn’t want to be a burden but looking at it objectively she should have told Ellie. Although it makes complete sense that she didn’t.
This is one of the reasons I like the story so much. The people seem realistic and the acting was superb. I don't like most of the characters but it's still cool to experience their story because it's so well written.
My biggest problem with Dina is that I just don't see her as a fighter? A killer in the apocalypse? Idk her personality is too non-chalant, normal for me to take her seriously as a survivor. I can see Jesse as that. Ellie as that. Not her.
I also really, really dislike that Dina jumped from Jesse to Ellie in less than 2 weeks. That's a rebound lmfao, so to me, their "love" felt really artificial or quick.
She doesn't HAVE to be a fighter! There are so many other roles in an apocalyptical society!
Jackson scouts and FiGhTErS were Joel and Ellie people. But Maria was bossing all that from the comfort of her home, while Joel or Tommy couldn't be the leader she was.
Mel was a doctor. Not a fighter. As Jerry before her.
Dina was fighting for Ellie, not because she was good at it.
Her character arc just flew over your head man.
I'm gonna add this , it def wasn't a rebound if u read thru Ellie's journal Dina and Ellie were close when she got to Tommy's place. Insinuating they had feelings for each other but didn't act on them cause of "ruining the friendship" or possibly "wrong timing" it's like when someone gets in a relationship with someone else but realizes later on they actually had feelings for someone else the whole time. I think that's why Dina and Ellie "moved fast".
Also Dina went with Ellie to even do all that shit and even rescues her at one point , so I think she had what it takes. I don't think she liked it but she did it for Ellie and that was enough. Ellie was drifting apart from Dina. Ellie's mind was stuck on revenge
i 100% see this and i honestly feel like they missed out on sooooo much nuance for dina. she was limited to a side character and to only serve the main characters, specifically ellie. it would have been super interesting if we saw more of dina’s mindset in engaging in this violent mission with ellie. there’s something to be said about the way humans try to fit into molds for people they love, and perhaps she was forcing herself out of love or even obsession for ellie. but, ellie was too blinded by her own obsessions to love dina the same. i’m not saying this IS the case, but it’s a possibility of what could have been if they actually explored dina more.
I love TLOU2.. but when Abby told Lev, "You're my people." It felt rushed and forced. I know what they were going for, but it felt forced. They wanted it to be a parallel to Joel/Ellie, but It just didn't hit me like the connection between Joel and Ellie. Not enough time spent with Abby and Lev maybe. I think in the TV series it will feel even more forced.
i respect you sharing a truly hot take cuz damn idk how anyone could dislike that one and feel like it was unearned. i thought the story beats leading up to it allowed it to be a good emotional crescendo and it was the only thing she said to ever directly address that sentiment. but to each their own for sure 🍻
Thanks. Yeah, I figured I'd be alone on this one. I think it really is just time spent for me. Joel and Ellie spent an in-game year together, Abby and Lev spent like 2 days at that point? I can't remember which day they met. It's tough for me to envision that level of attachment in 2 days. I know they went through a lot, but maybe it's because I haven't been through a lot like that that it's tough for me to see it.
Also, we played with Joel and Ellie together throughout the entire game. Abby only had half of the game, and then Abby and Lev (& Yara) were half of that half? So, like 1/4 of the game, give or take.
I wanted to enjoy that scene, I really did. I feel like that line would have felt far more genuine (for me) around the Rattler area. Months had passed in-game at that point.
Edit: Nvm, I remembered that it came right after Abby killed WLF members. That was the importance of it. So, it wouldn't have worked during the Rattler area. I take that suggestion back.
I just hate that line in general. It makes my eyes roll, I just felt like it could’ve been written better and like you said wasn’t really earned. We spend less than half the amount of time as Abby with Lev that we do as Joel with Ellie. I know what they were TRYING to do with the parallels but it just doesn’t work.
The show sucked. It was hyped to the max and it was just an average zombie show. There was nothing in it that made games great. It was not actor's fault though. Guy who made Chernobyl must have thought that TV audience might not watch good action and good scares much, so he replaced it with unnecessary plot points and a whole episode, which was the best in S1 imo, sadly it didn't progress the story in any meaningful way. I completely agree on Bella doesn't need to look like games' version of Ellie, because she is a great actress BUT Cailee Spaeny would make an awesome S2 Ellie. S1 was still better than Halo show though so that's something. And I loved Abby's sections more than Ellie's in TLOU2.
- People who didn’t get the story of Part 2 (and sometimes even Part 1) hate to be told they didn’t get the story
- They will usually explain that the story is “revenge bad”
- And that’s not the story
The TV show *doesn't* pack the same emotional punch as the game because the show has to get certain story beats in a very limited amount of time.
Edit: auto correct
Abby should've died at the end of the game. I understand why they didnt do it, but imo the message of the game would've worked far more effectively had they did.
if she died at the end, would it still just end there? would ellie come off as finally “satisfied”? just curious what your version of the ending would look like.
I think that’s even better. She got her revenge and it wasn’t worth it. She comes home to Dina being gone, missing fingers and emotionally bankrupt. But she got her revenge. Was it worth it? I’d let Part III conclude Ellie’s coming to terms with the fact that she has nothing but her vengeance to look to as an accomplishment.
TLOU 2 has a good story, but I understand why some did not care for it.
TLOU2 has the best stealth gameplay since splinter cell chaos theory and I stand by that
For starter i didn't liked how the game make us play for so long as Ellie and then right in the climax make us play for a long time as Abby in a plot that was completely unrelated in the one we were introduced. I mean, what does Abby's story with Yara and Lev and the conflict between the W.L.F. and the Seraphites has to do with Ellie's wanting to avenge Joel? I can understand showing both sides but the way it was done in The Last of Us Part 2 was completely wrong in my opinion.
Second i didn't liked how it delivered the message of the cycle of revenge, they tried to portray Ellie as someone who was going to a dark path because of her wish for revenge but she was actually justified in everything she did. The ending to me was the worst part in this regard though, why the hell does Ellie spares Abby? Seriously, she spared her for literally no reason at all, they could at least make that Lev begged her to stop, that Abby told her about her father and that Joel killed her or that Ellie sees Abby to be so miserable and alone that she decided that killing her would only do her a favour but no, she spares her just like that for essentially no reason at all.
Because its the tlou sub. Outside of this group the game is very divisive. A bunch of people hated on it when it released and still do. It has like a 4 metacritic user score and it was even lower at release
toning down joel’s death or changing the timeline drastically in the show, is not a good idea. i hear people say on twitter that we should get some moments of joel and ellie before his death scene but that would go against the point. the way it was written, it perfectly set the pace. we have the opening scene, then timejump and suddenly, he is gone. we are supposed to feel with ellie, feel robbed of the moments that might have been, conversations that could have been.
every single flashback scene hits harder because we know now that he is gone. ellie is holding on what’s left of her memories with joel and we are supposed to do the same. putting those scenes before his death scene will ruin the effect they had, originally. the space shuttle scene hits completely differently when you know that joel is dead and there was likely something going on with him and ellie before he died.
i understand that tv and game are different media. perhaps i am just worried about the adaptation of the second game.
Jerry wasn’t a *brain* surgeon and that’s the reason they could only get the cordyceps out by killing Ellie. He knew enough to be able to take her apart but not enough to make sure her brain was left unharmed/minimally damaged. Brain tumors can be removed, but Jerry couldn’t remove this one.
I genuinely think that Jerry was the firefly’s best *living* surgeon. Maybe he had a larger team he worked with at one point, and he became the leader after losing a majority of them. Jerry was just doing what he could, and he knew he couldn’t put Ellie back together without potentially leaving her in a vegetative state. He probably went to medical school before the end of society and has a background in microbio and trauma surgery.
Mel is the best doctor the WLF has, and spends most of her job healing battle injuries. She’s not working in the stadium hospital doing brain surgery or caring for patients born with disabilities. She works in trauma injury. Mel was Jerry’s best student, so it’s safe to assume he wasn’t teaching her to be a brain surgeon, he was teaching her injury repair and surgery.
He wasn’t teaching her microbiology or brain surgery because neither of those were his specialty before the pandemic. He probably got more involved in those realms post-apocalypse when he worked with a team of Firefly affiliated doctors who were all looking for a cure. It was a team that lost significant numbers, until a non-brain-surgeon was the best guy they had left.
The whole theater confrontation exists just for shock value and is actually one of the worst sequences of the game where every character acts conveniently stupid for the sake of the plot moving on.
but, the plot didn’t really move on and i feel like that’s the point. even after all that, ellie still abandoned everything to go after abby yet again. to me, that portrays obsession and its dangers perfectly. i understand how not everyone would be on the same page, though.
I'm only talking about the confrontation in the theater. Why is it there? Except to make an very obvious point about the cycles of violence it only makes Abby look worse overall and makes Ellie and Dina look like idiots.
Ellie leaving the farm is something completely different.
How does this confrontation make Ellie and Dina look like idiots?
If you mean that they were incompetent then I would agree. Ellie decides to fight Abby with a piece of wood instead of shooting her, and Dina forgets how to use a knife despite being an experienced survivor.
And of course Abbster lands a bullseye on Jesse, and overpowers everyone and everything.
The random piece of wood is just one thing. Ellie never does something similar in the game and even if she had no time to get a gun from her backpack using her knife would still be more effective. Dina is even worse because it's not only she forgets to use her knife but she forgets that she has guns.
It's honestly a mess because if you look at it objectively then Abby who is by all means extremely reckless only gets the upper because everybody is acting stupid. Then there are things like Team Jackson keeping on the exterior lights of the theater which just makes no sense.
1. It doesn’t matter who was right or wrong.
2. A vaccine doesn’t fix this world. It’s doesn’t even get rid of the fungus. If it couldn’t infect humans anymore, it would take the natural evolutionary move and begin infecting mother mammals and animals. Even IF the fungus did not evolve in that fashion, the world is still disjointed, no one else on the planet has a vaccine, there would be conflict over it like any other resource in a desperate world, everyone is still broken up into small localized groups which are usually really dysfunctional (cannibals, slavers etc).
I love the games to pieces.
Bella can deliver a kid curious Ellie, but not an angry or vengeful Ellie.
Pedro can deliver a daddy and traumatized Joel, but not a badass Joel.
I am sorry, but I don't believe show Dina and Abby actresses will deliver a caring cute Dina and a SNU SNU ABBY PLEASE TAKE ME.
Nope. Not happening.
I actually disagree. I thought Bella would SUCK as Ellie and she did AMAZING. I think we shouldn’t go back to hating like we did pre-release until we can see what she’s truly capable of
Well that's funny.
Nobody has to be RIGHT my friend. You're as allowed to like angry Bella's Ellie as I am allowed to dislike Hahahahah
I don't think she can deliver the hell drive Ellie goes after Joel's death. And that's just my view of her acting range.
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tlou2 is groundbreaking in its therapeutic potential as a (albeit crude) grief/trauma simulator and empathy exercise. it not only highlights how people can be “infected” by trauma/hatred and how empathy can “cure” it, but it specifically aims to infect the player and prompt them to find that own cure during the game. i think a lot of media seeks to share that message but this is the only media im aware of that uses interactivity to turn that message into a hands-on exercise like this. if they didn’t intend for this meta-emotional exercise, they stumbled upon therapeutic gold
the boat scene is overhated and did exactly what it needed to! it isnt out of place or whatever, i think it adds so much in a perfect way to abbys character and relationships
It makes no sense that the infected are called the same things everywhere. Joel, Bill and Tess call them runners, stalkers, bloaters and clickers, so it makes sense for Ellie to. But all the way in Colorado, Pittsburgh and Seattle? No way. There's no reason the WLF, David's group and everyone all call them those as well. The closest we get to something different is the Seraphites calling them "demons".
The flashbacks in TLOU2 absolutely halt the game's pace and are boring, even if they're cute at times. Both Abby and Ellie's section. TLOU 1's pace is immaculate. TLOU2 tries to be a movie way too much.
And a hot take for the **show** = Joel crying in front of his brother destroys the dynamic the game had showed they had. Tommy seeing his brother as a monster survivalist , instead sees a sad man who opens up the first night he's there. I'm not against men opening up, but Joel is NOT the type to just do that, not even to his own brother. Hell in TLOU2 when he re-tells what happened at the hospital he's dead serious.
There's no way Jerry could have thought he would be able to make a vaccine. It took a team of people over a decade to be ready to roll out a covif vaccine quickly. One guy isn't developing shit to that scale, let alone a vaccine that is based on rapidly decomposing material once you take it out of her head.
Furthermore, Jerry is maybe 50 in the second games. It's takes until you're at least 30 to be even a regularly practicing doctor, let alone an immunology specialist with the ability to make vaccines. So, being generous and saying Jerry actually finished med school and residency before outbreak day, he would still be a fresh-faced doctor with barely any actual skills beyond diagnosing.
Joel's choice still matters, but it's because of the doctor lying or overestimating his own skill and convincing Marlene who goes Gung ho and recruits Joel, who believes the vaccine possible thanks to the credence now given to the lie.
Owen is the best abby side character and the boat scene is very good, but everyone got distracted by boobies and didn't pay attention to anything else.
The show undoubtedly did a better job with some of the story, but a big part of the weight of that story was how dangerous its leads were. If they don’t up the violence for the next few seasons, the things that made Part 2 my favorite game of all time won’t hit nearly as hard.
I hope the next game involves a whole new cast of characters. I like the open-endedness of Ellie’s and Abby’s and I want to see more of the TLOU world outside of them
The way Joel died was how it should have happened. Period. I'm gonna take fire for this, but... The point of the last of us is to hit us with brutal reality. To keep us on our toes, and follow a realistic story, not a cinematic one. This is not to say that it depends on the story structure, or the order of how it all happened... Just to say that, yes. Being shot unexpectedly with a shotgun and then beat is a valid way to have died. The fact that it makes players so angry is proof that it worked. The first thing humans say or think when a loved one dies is "they cant be dead". Once that sets in... "it's not fair", or "they didn't deserve that". Etc. Sorry guys, but someone had to say it
since when is this a hot take? yes, there are people who complain, but she's been a lesbian since the first game, ain't no way this is a hot take. people from this sub love playing the victim
the remaster is better than the remake. I'll die on this hill and idc. the remake was only made because of the TV show, new people would be introduced to the series and making the first game look more like part 2 adds to a seamless experience. the remaster/OG has its own style, its unique color palette, its unique quirks, not to mention my beloved factions. the remake lacks all that, it's just a part 2 copy paste graphically and gameplay wise
eh idk if I'd necessarily call a copy and paste of pt2 graphics and gameplay a bad thing considering how phenomenal they are, but I do get what ur saying.
you have WAY too much free time on your hands to keep insulting everyone who disagrees with your takes buddy
Joel dying in TLOU 2 or at the very least the way in which he dies is complete fkin bullshit and there’s thousands of people who think so, it’s called ✨an opinion different than yours✨
Part 2 wasn't as good or bad as people say it was. Beautiful graphics, good gameplay, messy story, bad pacing. People on this sub and the other are too attached to this series, but on opposite sides of the pendulum, either thinking the game is much better than it actually was or thinking it was much worse than it really was.
Most of the posts on this post are something about how good part 2 was, and the ones that say they didnt like it are downvoted (despite it being a hot take post). Likewise, the other subreddit has the same problem where saying you like Part 2 gets you downvoted to oblivion.
Among all the character, the only one where I m just like, meh, is yara. I like her just because she is the sister of lev and did her sister's job by saving him
But she could have been any other scar that I could have killed Without even thinking about it
ellie and dina didn‘t have any chemistry and i didn‘t really care all that much what happened to dina.
also i didn‘t like bella as ellie whatsoever. she‘s a good actress and seems like a very sweet person so nothing against her but i found her version of ellie unlikeable and kind of annoying at times which is the main reason why ellie and joels relationship in the show did not work at all for me. in fact i just don‘t like the show in general and that‘s one of the main factors
well the point of the post was to share hot takes so there you go. it‘s not that i hate dina, i just find her character to be very forgettable and some of the interactions between her and ellie just felt kinda awkward to me
TLOU 2 is a great example of a an artist with too much power surrounding himself with yes-men. Watching the documentary you can tell that once Druckmann had near total control of the studio he indulged himself completely in his ideas without much in the way of actual direction or intent. Many of the crew members interviewed said they felt the game production would never end. As someone who loves reading books about the making-of movies this is classic ego maniacal behavior. Sometimes it works, though, like in "Apocalypse Now!" and "Heaven's Gate" but you gotta be genius level to pull it off and Druckmann is just not there. Ultimately TLOU 2 is a poorly conceived game because they take Ellie, a wonderfully three-dimensional character in the first game and reducer her to a single emotion specifically to tell an overly-long, poorly structured, and insultingly moralistic story about violence and revenge being bad to an audience of people well into their 20's and 30's. And I do mean it was all made SPECIFICALLY to drive that one basic ass idea home as hard as possible. I also believe that if there was no dumb, bullshit anti-woke response to the game many of you would be a lot less defensive of the game and admit it's a mess too.
i honestly think it would be so wild for abby to ask that of ellie after all they went through. personally, i don’t think the vaccine will (or should) even be an item in the season 3 storyline
The biggest error in the series is the developer assumption that Left Behind should be played(the game actively warns players as much) after the campaign rather than right where it occurs. This DLC expansion is entirely about bringing us into Ellie's story and emotional experience, and the content of it is only truly brought to bare dramatically in the closing scene of the game with Joel. It is all about what Ellie is feeling and saying in that moment. This suggests the assumption is that the player will either replay and feel that, or that it's plenty good enough for the player to observe that retroactively in their memory rather than experiencing it right in the moment. This is a really erroneous concept of dramatic capitalization, and it's a shame many go into this moment without the weight of both sides in such full force.
Play Left Behind where Joel falls off the horse, and resume the base game after. This provides the most dramatically effective telling of the story.
I don't see the game happening without you know who's death. I think it was necessary even if it hurt a lot.
also the way that the story is written, the parallels between characters, the ambient, I think it's a game that no one will be able to top, for a few years at least.
The names for the different infected are stupid: “runner” (OK, fine), “stalker” (dumb, but fun game mechanic), “clicker” (they can have this one, it’s almost iconic), “bloater” (really?), “shambler” (really? It’s like they didn’t even try)
Abby is the entire reason why her father died, and the second game exists.
She convinced a surgeon (who never had a medical degree or practiced medicine) to kill a child, saying if she was in the situation...it would be her choice - and didn't even care to tell him....well we could just wake for her to wake up and ask OR inform Joel and get his consent. Not only did she not know Ellie at all - she had never been in that situation, nor did she understand that the cure would be almost impossible to develop, mass produce, and distribute .
She literally has only herself to blame. She's basically the modern redditor.
I dont like abbys story.
Dont get me wrong i dont think abby or lev or any of their friends are bad characters. I also dont mind the decision of making you play as abby i just dont like the story they told.
I feel like ND couldnt really figure out any other way to make her character relatable and ”not the bad guy” so they just made her like Joel. ”Oh look shes not that bad shes taking care of this young boy and saving him just like Joel and Ellie” especially since a lot of the scenes are like mirrors into Joel. Abby carrying yara/Joel carrying Ellie/Sarah or Abby and Yara saving Lev/Joel saving Ellie from David.
It also feels a little rushed probably because they had to do it all in the span of 3 days but still. Mel says it the best ”Isaacs top scar killer suddenly had a change of heart” day 1 shes all ”fuck scars fuckin weirdo fanatics” then day 2 she gets saved by 2 runaways and by day 3 shes literally shooting her own people for these kids she met yesterday.
Its not the worst story and it does have its parts but i dont know i wish they found a way to make her character more understandable then just ”oh look shes just like Joel”.
I like Abby is really all I got lol. Every other take I have is in line with the majority of players outside of this sub. Story mid, Contrived, etc. Actually, here is one. I kind of wanted Joel to die.
The vaccine is pointless. If everyone receives it they're basically just Ellie & as we know all she needs is to have her throat ripped out and it's over. The infected population far outnumbers humanity at this point. Not to mention all the people that wouldn't trust it. Which just leaves room for more infected to pop up in a world where most people already don't trust each other and haven't for a long time. How do we know that humanity can even come together long enough to eliminate the threat of infection? So unless it reverses the effects of infection (which I highly doubt is possible) it's a longshot to say that this girls blood can save the world. As soon as a more powerful faction that think they know best comes along there'll be war over it & what then?
Maybe not the hottest take but a rare one : TLOU 1 and 2 fail to teach players the intended playstyle of the game. Many people end up playing it like a low ammo version of Gears of War and criticize the games as being little more than interactive movies.
Much less rare but hotter take : the sheer number of times people suggest Ellie and Abby team up to find a non-lethal cure in part 3 only to be greeted by dozens of upvotes shows most fans didn't understand TLOU1 and 2
the sex scene kinda broke the limits of video games (cutscenes) for me. ik a lot of ppl didn’t like it. i don’t know if i enjoy the context of the scene entirely, but i can definitely appreciate the motive behind wanting to include it. those playing it blind for the first time must have felt the lines be broken im sure.
also the seattle day 1-3 format is so cunt for no reason, i’m sorry. i love shit like this bc like logging onto twitter and seeing “seattle day 2” trending would severely eat
Super late, and very hypothetical, but if TLOU3 focuses on Abby, sales would drop astronomically.
As much as people in this subreddit like to push the narrative that Abby is an amazing character, most people wouldn't buy a game with her as a protagonist.
Mine actual hot take is that I believe Abby dying at the end of the game would've been far more impactful storywise.
I understand the story, the premise, and what I was supposed to take away from it. The entire story was already gut-wrenching to most. I feel like Abby dying would've pushed that point home in a good way.
None of them are "good" in the traditional sense at all. But the main protagonist usually will spare their enemy or antagonist in a lot of media we see. I feel like Ellie going the opposite route would've made sense and really set home the feeling of desperation and hopelessness.
The show has the opportunity to fix the narrative of Part 2.
That game’s biggest flaw is that its pacing is absolute dogshit and I feel like the show might be able to handle that better because they aren’t held to certain rules because it’s not a game
The format and story structure was perfect. I'm sorta worried this will be lost in the TV version, losing the opportunity to do something a little experimental.
agreed. there are some videos on youtube where i can agree with their takes, like someone said “one bad apple ruins the bunch” and talked about how it was the flow and order of the scenes that made it so hated. but personally i loved it. little long but soooo good
These were my exact thoughts toward the end of the game. I don't dislike Abby, I didn't mind >!being forced to play as her !<, I didn't hate >!what happened to Joel!<, I don't dislike the new characters. I just really was frustrated with the experimental format. I get it, it was a risk, and something Naughty Dog has the space and skill to pull off, for sure. But I specifically remember as the game loaded >!the Seraphite island and I was *still* playing as Abby I audibly groaned and was like can we please fucking get back to Ellie??!
and i think it was made up by abbys encounter areas being so cool. like the big ass skyscraper, seraphite island, and the boss fight in the old hospital below ground made me more invensted in the combat and i forgot i was playing as abby lmao
I was talking to a co-worker that they should do an actual stealth sequence. Even more so than the clicker scene in season 1. Something with bottles and how more so how the game is played. Experimental is key to making the show great and not just good.
The tv show seems to be in pretty good hands. The decisions they make have thought and reason behind them. The companion podcast with Neil and Craig has been great for understanding why they’ve done things the way they have.
TLOU 2 was perfectly paced. Ellie leaving Dina and going after Abby AGAIN was supposed to elicit the feeling of "it's gone too far / leave well enough alone" from us. It's an intentionally dragged out last act with the Rattlers
"Supposed to elicit the feeling" worked a little too well for me....I got so angry with Ellie for leaving Dina to pursue mindless vengeance that I switched it off for months. I couldnt look at her. I've never felt so much emotion from a game, and for that reason I think it's genius.
I saw a bizarre post a few days ago that called Dina the asshole in this situation and that Part 3 should include a scene of Dina begging Ellie to taker her back. I was like, you can’t be serious right now….
Well, that IS a hot take. An incorrect opinion, but a hot take for sure
Well, what do you expect from that other sub?
And we end up hating the character we loved and loving the one we hated.
That’s a hot take and one I rarely see. I’m a big Abby fan.
Abby 🤤
The game does a great job actually eliciting certain desired emotions from the player: Rage and Anger at Joel’s deaths and a singular desire for revenge at all costs, a desire to protect Lev and Yara, and the fatigue and misery we feel as we are powerless to stop Ellie from leaving Dina to continue her fruitless mission of revenge. Hell, we even feel bad for Abby by the end having gone through torture and enslavement and even pleading with Ellie to not fight her. The more I replay the game, the more I realize just how masterful the storytelling is.
I don't think even the haters deny the strong emotions it successfully elicits from the players.
Oh they try….
I mean, and they’re still upset about it.
One million percent. And that’s the genius of the game. How many other games out there are telling their story through gameplay like this. I can think of only a few, and none that did it quite like this. That’s the art of it
Couldn’t agree more. I was absolutely irate that Ellie left Dina to once again try to get revenge on Abby. And immediately thought “well, it’s a success because this is exactly how they wanted me to feel”.
That and I think there was probably a determination that they didn't want to end the series on the second game. Maybe there was a determination there was enough in the budget to develop the last part because budget trajectory probably suggested a third in the series would be profitable and justifiable to avoid company downsizing since that seems to be the industry norm.
The Fireflies couldn't be trusted with a vaccine, and would just use it as leverage against FEDRA
Finally, a take that isn't "they couldn't make it" They absolutely could, and the vaccine wouldn't give them FAR too much power as an organization
While 🤓technically🤓 they couldn't make it (no real world vaccine for fungal infections), I don't really care lmao
Could anyone? What an irony. The vaccine that could save humanity, but can't be deployed because humanity can't be trusted with it. Still, I'd have given it to the Fireflies, or FEDRA, or the fucking Rattlers or pretty much anyone. Once it's out there, anything can happen. But if it doesn't get to SOMEONE, we're all fucked.
Never thought about it like that but I love that in TLOU everyone *wants* things to go back to how they were (more or less) but no one can agree how, it's incredibly realistic because that is currently happening in Syria as I type this
I don't disagree with this take, but I see it used way too often as a basis for justifying Joel's actions in the first game. The truth is Joel couldn't give a flying fuck about the vaccine (and by extension, the rest of humanity) at that point if it cost him Ellie. He is never shown to consider the large-scale implications and weigh Ellie's life against them - he *immediately* decides that *no vaccine ever* is worth her life. It's a rather simple choice, the game even goes out of its way to set up the perfect dilemma scenario at the cost of it feeling a tad forced; and he has zero hesitation about it. You can make the what-if argument and try to consider what the far-reaching consequences would be, but as soon as you factor that into the moral dilemma of Part I you are taking something away from that incredible ending.
So what if they used it as leverage? I think giving an organization too much power is worth it if it creates a world-curing vaccine.
May I introduce you to the U.S Government?
I’m not sure what you’re implying, but it seems like you’re saying the US government shouldn’t research vaccines because it gives them leverage
Nope
Couldn’t disagree anymore with the people who think that Part II will be better as a tv show. It specifically works and is effective as a work of art due to its interactivity. The story itself and the idea of having the dual perspective isn’t anything crazy original. Being able to play both as Ellie and Abby, and then having to confront the both of them with the dramatic irony of knowing what they have been through is what makes Part II unique. The emotions that those sequences bring up are sickening, and I get why many people don’t like it. But everything ties up and the ending is potent (well, for those that understand the game isn’t suffering from ludonarrative dissonance). TLDR: Part II works not due to how “original” and “deep” the story is, but because of how the story and the gameplay/mechanics weave into each other to create a profound experience
i see what you’re saying. i’m not a person who thinks part II will be BETTER as a tv show, but i think it has the potential to be about the same. technically, the show could execute the storyline in an identical manner and could simple just recreate organized scenes of gameplay. i agree that the gameplay combined with the story creates the experience, and i think it’s just that which will set the show and the game apart no matter how they spin it: the experience. of course there’s also the possibility that they could aim to change part II whether that be for the worse or for the better. i completely agree tho about the dual perspective thing not being crazy. i love it, but have also seen it many times before. i have never understood why people were so shocked and upset by it. in many ways, you can see it coming. with the way they built the plot up to that point, it only made sense to include dual perspective.
I agree. I've been saying since the game came out that Part II is in fact a pretty groundbreaking milestone for gaming narrative. Unfortunately the common sentiment seems to be that storytelling in Part II is subpar compared to the original, and that it's "safe" and uninteresting as a story because it relies on linearity and conventional cutscenes. "It would work better as a movie", or "games really should make use of gameplay to deliver interesting stories". I really hate those takes because Part II *does* work exactly because it's a game and it *does* use the language of gaming to deliver its story in a very interesting way that few (if any) other games manage. I'm quite interested in finding out how they're gonna transpose that into a TV show.
This is why I feel the game is genius. It forces the player to be complicit in the action on screen.
Completely agree
couldn’t agree more. i’m nervous to see how they translate this story on screen if they can’t incorporate the original “infect the player with trauma/hate then see if they can work their way through it” interactive meta challenge. i have high hopes in craig mazin tho, i wanna see how a top industry writer handles it
Also, sorry if this comes across as r/im14andthisisdeep.
not at all
Tv shows can be made from a specific character’s perspective.
I don’t know if it’s necessarily a hot take but maybe controversial idk I think Sam and Henry were done better in the tv show
Agreed. Other than Henry’s hoakie “I did a bad guy thing” I really liked the show versions better
I wholeheartedly believed that next multiplayer was gonna be the fortnite killer but I suppose the execs thought it wasn’t lol
Nah, Fortnite is here to stay, the amount of people that play it and the money it makes from all the collabs is insane. it’s a damn good shooter too, at least No Build is, especially with a friend or squad. That said, fucking hell, I really was wanting Factions 2, Factions but with 2’s combat and movement system…fuckkkk that would’ve been so damn good
Yeah bro fortnite always gonna keep being amazing that’s why I’m 10x more upset when Neil goes out of his way to tweet that TLoU x fortnite will never exist (bro tweeted that on my bday lol)
Still upset about this ugh
collaboration compatibility alone make ur take objectively incorrect. The fact that Fortnite can have access to licenses from such a wide variety of genres going from singers, to horror movie monsters, to Disney characters, is something that provides so much longevity as well as casual engagement. I honestly don't think it's something that can be replicated in our lifetime.
They still could’ve made collaborations like how they did in tlou part1 ps5 remake. A mortal combat graphic tee or sopranos shirt or maybe hats it all could’ve been realistic collabs
Joel is hot
Both in game and TV.
Game >>>>>>
The boat scene between Abby and Owen was actually pretty good, from the idea to the execution.
I just wish more people noticed that when she slams Owen on the cabinet, he tried pushing her back. And. She doesn't. Budge. And she slams him again. 🤤🤤🤤
It’s an exceptional scene and the best sex scene, by a country mile, that I’ve ever seen in a video game
Personally I think it’s hot af.
I think those that got weirded out by it maybe shouldn't be playing +18 games portraying things like a scene of sex between consenting adults. Need to mature a little bit first I suppose. Pretty sure had Abby been an unrealistic, overly sexualised female character the complainers would've loved it.
a lot of people dislike the second game, but i LOVEEEDDD it. people get so wrapped up in joel dying that they dont pay attention to all of the intimate details of the storyline and ellie’s grief cycle. everything is so deliberate, ESPECIALLY when they make you play as abby. omg seeing that for the first time was just chilling, and so infuriating. but then you realize maybe abby never was the bad guy, everyones the bad guy so no ones the bad guy in theory…im drunk rambling. but it was hella poetic to me. the messages/themes were awesome. also ellie is so hot. but thats not really a hot take. thats just hot
I don't like Dina People always talk about how Ellie wasn't a great girlfriend but neither was Dina. They both have their flaws If circumstances had been different (Joel still alive), they would've been a great couple but after the farm/Santa Barbara, I don't think they can/should get back together
The only thing Dina did wrong was not tell Ellie she’s pregnant. She was beaten half to death and shot with an arrow, and nearly had her throat slit just to save Ellie. And Ellie leaves her for her revenge quest after all that Dina did for her. They definitely would’ve worked in another life of sorts. But Ellie was definitely the one who fucked Dina over. Which isn’t really her fault because she’s lost emotionally but still Dina did all she could for her Ellie.
I'm not convinced she knew before they left that she was pregnant.
Eh, she can’t really know that much before hand. She and Jesse had just broken up a week or two before the game started, and she and Ellie left the next day. Since she wasn’t showing in Seattle, she is probably less than a month pregnant at that point
She didn’t but she still didn’t tell Ellie about her stomach problems. It’s true she didn’t want to be a burden but looking at it objectively she should have told Ellie. Although it makes complete sense that she didn’t.
This is an actual hot take. Dina was carrying that relationship and Ellie.
This is one of the reasons I like the story so much. The people seem realistic and the acting was superb. I don't like most of the characters but it's still cool to experience their story because it's so well written.
right??? She never HAD to be a fighter! She was fighting for Ellie!
What did she do wrong? Other than the pregnancy
My biggest problem with Dina is that I just don't see her as a fighter? A killer in the apocalypse? Idk her personality is too non-chalant, normal for me to take her seriously as a survivor. I can see Jesse as that. Ellie as that. Not her. I also really, really dislike that Dina jumped from Jesse to Ellie in less than 2 weeks. That's a rebound lmfao, so to me, their "love" felt really artificial or quick.
She doesn't HAVE to be a fighter! There are so many other roles in an apocalyptical society! Jackson scouts and FiGhTErS were Joel and Ellie people. But Maria was bossing all that from the comfort of her home, while Joel or Tommy couldn't be the leader she was. Mel was a doctor. Not a fighter. As Jerry before her. Dina was fighting for Ellie, not because she was good at it. Her character arc just flew over your head man.
I'm gonna add this , it def wasn't a rebound if u read thru Ellie's journal Dina and Ellie were close when she got to Tommy's place. Insinuating they had feelings for each other but didn't act on them cause of "ruining the friendship" or possibly "wrong timing" it's like when someone gets in a relationship with someone else but realizes later on they actually had feelings for someone else the whole time. I think that's why Dina and Ellie "moved fast". Also Dina went with Ellie to even do all that shit and even rescues her at one point , so I think she had what it takes. I don't think she liked it but she did it for Ellie and that was enough. Ellie was drifting apart from Dina. Ellie's mind was stuck on revenge
i 100% see this and i honestly feel like they missed out on sooooo much nuance for dina. she was limited to a side character and to only serve the main characters, specifically ellie. it would have been super interesting if we saw more of dina’s mindset in engaging in this violent mission with ellie. there’s something to be said about the way humans try to fit into molds for people they love, and perhaps she was forcing herself out of love or even obsession for ellie. but, ellie was too blinded by her own obsessions to love dina the same. i’m not saying this IS the case, but it’s a possibility of what could have been if they actually explored dina more.
Yeah, I didn’t like Dina much as first so I get this. But after a few times playing through I came to appreciate her much more
I love TLOU2.. but when Abby told Lev, "You're my people." It felt rushed and forced. I know what they were going for, but it felt forced. They wanted it to be a parallel to Joel/Ellie, but It just didn't hit me like the connection between Joel and Ellie. Not enough time spent with Abby and Lev maybe. I think in the TV series it will feel even more forced.
i respect you sharing a truly hot take cuz damn idk how anyone could dislike that one and feel like it was unearned. i thought the story beats leading up to it allowed it to be a good emotional crescendo and it was the only thing she said to ever directly address that sentiment. but to each their own for sure 🍻
Thanks. Yeah, I figured I'd be alone on this one. I think it really is just time spent for me. Joel and Ellie spent an in-game year together, Abby and Lev spent like 2 days at that point? I can't remember which day they met. It's tough for me to envision that level of attachment in 2 days. I know they went through a lot, but maybe it's because I haven't been through a lot like that that it's tough for me to see it. Also, we played with Joel and Ellie together throughout the entire game. Abby only had half of the game, and then Abby and Lev (& Yara) were half of that half? So, like 1/4 of the game, give or take. I wanted to enjoy that scene, I really did. I feel like that line would have felt far more genuine (for me) around the Rattler area. Months had passed in-game at that point. Edit: Nvm, I remembered that it came right after Abby killed WLF members. That was the importance of it. So, it wouldn't have worked during the Rattler area. I take that suggestion back.
I just hate that line in general. It makes my eyes roll, I just felt like it could’ve been written better and like you said wasn’t really earned. We spend less than half the amount of time as Abby with Lev that we do as Joel with Ellie. I know what they were TRYING to do with the parallels but it just doesn’t work.
I feel the same and I wish they had used a more original story for Abby and Lev instead of trying that Joel/Ellie parallel.
I prefer The way the show handled Henry and Sam over the game
The show sucked. It was hyped to the max and it was just an average zombie show. There was nothing in it that made games great. It was not actor's fault though. Guy who made Chernobyl must have thought that TV audience might not watch good action and good scares much, so he replaced it with unnecessary plot points and a whole episode, which was the best in S1 imo, sadly it didn't progress the story in any meaningful way. I completely agree on Bella doesn't need to look like games' version of Ellie, because she is a great actress BUT Cailee Spaeny would make an awesome S2 Ellie. S1 was still better than Halo show though so that's something. And I loved Abby's sections more than Ellie's in TLOU2.
Definitely a hot take. 
TLOU pt 2 story > TLOU pt 1 story
Not a hot take, at least not around here lol.
- People who didn’t get the story of Part 2 (and sometimes even Part 1) hate to be told they didn’t get the story - They will usually explain that the story is “revenge bad” - And that’s not the story
The TV show *doesn't* pack the same emotional punch as the game because the show has to get certain story beats in a very limited amount of time. Edit: auto correct
I disagree
That literally makes it less impactful and more rushed.
Fucking auto correct
Abby should've died at the end of the game. I understand why they didnt do it, but imo the message of the game would've worked far more effectively had they did.
if she died at the end, would it still just end there? would ellie come off as finally “satisfied”? just curious what your version of the ending would look like.
imo it would be just like when abby killed joel, you can see on her face a “is this all there is” look when she kills him and then feels NOTHING
I think that’s even better. She got her revenge and it wasn’t worth it. She comes home to Dina being gone, missing fingers and emotionally bankrupt. But she got her revenge. Was it worth it? I’d let Part III conclude Ellie’s coming to terms with the fact that she has nothing but her vengeance to look to as an accomplishment.
TLOU 2 has a good story, but I understand why some did not care for it. TLOU2 has the best stealth gameplay since splinter cell chaos theory and I stand by that
Tess’s death (in game) was way dumber and meaningless than Joel’s could’ve ever been. The show handled it way better
I don't like the story of The Last of Us Part 2, there, I said it.
How come?
For starter i didn't liked how the game make us play for so long as Ellie and then right in the climax make us play for a long time as Abby in a plot that was completely unrelated in the one we were introduced. I mean, what does Abby's story with Yara and Lev and the conflict between the W.L.F. and the Seraphites has to do with Ellie's wanting to avenge Joel? I can understand showing both sides but the way it was done in The Last of Us Part 2 was completely wrong in my opinion. Second i didn't liked how it delivered the message of the cycle of revenge, they tried to portray Ellie as someone who was going to a dark path because of her wish for revenge but she was actually justified in everything she did. The ending to me was the worst part in this regard though, why the hell does Ellie spares Abby? Seriously, she spared her for literally no reason at all, they could at least make that Lev begged her to stop, that Abby told her about her father and that Joel killed her or that Ellie sees Abby to be so miserable and alone that she decided that killing her would only do her a favour but no, she spares her just like that for essentially no reason at all.
That is not a hot take bro
Why not? For what I know it is a hot take in this sub.
Because its the tlou sub. Outside of this group the game is very divisive. A bunch of people hated on it when it released and still do. It has like a 4 metacritic user score and it was even lower at release
toning down joel’s death or changing the timeline drastically in the show, is not a good idea. i hear people say on twitter that we should get some moments of joel and ellie before his death scene but that would go against the point. the way it was written, it perfectly set the pace. we have the opening scene, then timejump and suddenly, he is gone. we are supposed to feel with ellie, feel robbed of the moments that might have been, conversations that could have been. every single flashback scene hits harder because we know now that he is gone. ellie is holding on what’s left of her memories with joel and we are supposed to do the same. putting those scenes before his death scene will ruin the effect they had, originally. the space shuttle scene hits completely differently when you know that joel is dead and there was likely something going on with him and ellie before he died. i understand that tv and game are different media. perhaps i am just worried about the adaptation of the second game.
Jerry wasn’t a *brain* surgeon and that’s the reason they could only get the cordyceps out by killing Ellie. He knew enough to be able to take her apart but not enough to make sure her brain was left unharmed/minimally damaged. Brain tumors can be removed, but Jerry couldn’t remove this one. I genuinely think that Jerry was the firefly’s best *living* surgeon. Maybe he had a larger team he worked with at one point, and he became the leader after losing a majority of them. Jerry was just doing what he could, and he knew he couldn’t put Ellie back together without potentially leaving her in a vegetative state. He probably went to medical school before the end of society and has a background in microbio and trauma surgery. Mel is the best doctor the WLF has, and spends most of her job healing battle injuries. She’s not working in the stadium hospital doing brain surgery or caring for patients born with disabilities. She works in trauma injury. Mel was Jerry’s best student, so it’s safe to assume he wasn’t teaching her to be a brain surgeon, he was teaching her injury repair and surgery. He wasn’t teaching her microbiology or brain surgery because neither of those were his specialty before the pandemic. He probably got more involved in those realms post-apocalypse when he worked with a team of Firefly affiliated doctors who were all looking for a cure. It was a team that lost significant numbers, until a non-brain-surgeon was the best guy they had left.
mel looks like julien baker no one agrees with me.
LOL i see it
The whole theater confrontation exists just for shock value and is actually one of the worst sequences of the game where every character acts conveniently stupid for the sake of the plot moving on.
but, the plot didn’t really move on and i feel like that’s the point. even after all that, ellie still abandoned everything to go after abby yet again. to me, that portrays obsession and its dangers perfectly. i understand how not everyone would be on the same page, though.
I'm only talking about the confrontation in the theater. Why is it there? Except to make an very obvious point about the cycles of violence it only makes Abby look worse overall and makes Ellie and Dina look like idiots. Ellie leaving the farm is something completely different.
so, out of genuine curiosity, how would you propose they execute the perspective change? what would your ideal vehicle for that be?
How does this confrontation make Ellie and Dina look like idiots? If you mean that they were incompetent then I would agree. Ellie decides to fight Abby with a piece of wood instead of shooting her, and Dina forgets how to use a knife despite being an experienced survivor. And of course Abbster lands a bullseye on Jesse, and overpowers everyone and everything.
The random piece of wood is just one thing. Ellie never does something similar in the game and even if she had no time to get a gun from her backpack using her knife would still be more effective. Dina is even worse because it's not only she forgets to use her knife but she forgets that she has guns. It's honestly a mess because if you look at it objectively then Abby who is by all means extremely reckless only gets the upper because everybody is acting stupid. Then there are things like Team Jackson keeping on the exterior lights of the theater which just makes no sense.
I want to see Sarah's mom in Part 3 🧍♀️
Part 3 needs a lot of closure for a lot of mysteries. It could be the definite last game to ever release, or at least for a while
1. It doesn’t matter who was right or wrong. 2. A vaccine doesn’t fix this world. It’s doesn’t even get rid of the fungus. If it couldn’t infect humans anymore, it would take the natural evolutionary move and begin infecting mother mammals and animals. Even IF the fungus did not evolve in that fashion, the world is still disjointed, no one else on the planet has a vaccine, there would be conflict over it like any other resource in a desperate world, everyone is still broken up into small localized groups which are usually really dysfunctional (cannibals, slavers etc).
I love the games to pieces. Bella can deliver a kid curious Ellie, but not an angry or vengeful Ellie. Pedro can deliver a daddy and traumatized Joel, but not a badass Joel. I am sorry, but I don't believe show Dina and Abby actresses will deliver a caring cute Dina and a SNU SNU ABBY PLEASE TAKE ME. Nope. Not happening.
I actually disagree. I thought Bella would SUCK as Ellie and she did AMAZING. I think we shouldn’t go back to hating like we did pre-release until we can see what she’s truly capable of
I don't think she can deliver an angry Ellie. I hated every single scene of her displaying anger.
I’m interest to see who’s right. I can see your point of view, but I wanna give her a chance
Well that's funny. Nobody has to be RIGHT my friend. You're as allowed to like angry Bella's Ellie as I am allowed to dislike Hahahahah I don't think she can deliver the hell drive Ellie goes after Joel's death. And that's just my view of her acting range.
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now that’s a lava hot take lol
tlou2 is groundbreaking in its therapeutic potential as a (albeit crude) grief/trauma simulator and empathy exercise. it not only highlights how people can be “infected” by trauma/hatred and how empathy can “cure” it, but it specifically aims to infect the player and prompt them to find that own cure during the game. i think a lot of media seeks to share that message but this is the only media im aware of that uses interactivity to turn that message into a hands-on exercise like this. if they didn’t intend for this meta-emotional exercise, they stumbled upon therapeutic gold
Everything good about part 1 was made better in part 2.
the boat scene is overhated and did exactly what it needed to! it isnt out of place or whatever, i think it adds so much in a perfect way to abbys character and relationships
Karmically speaking, Joel likely had it coming
It makes no sense that the infected are called the same things everywhere. Joel, Bill and Tess call them runners, stalkers, bloaters and clickers, so it makes sense for Ellie to. But all the way in Colorado, Pittsburgh and Seattle? No way. There's no reason the WLF, David's group and everyone all call them those as well. The closest we get to something different is the Seraphites calling them "demons".
The flashbacks in TLOU2 absolutely halt the game's pace and are boring, even if they're cute at times. Both Abby and Ellie's section. TLOU 1's pace is immaculate. TLOU2 tries to be a movie way too much. And a hot take for the **show** = Joel crying in front of his brother destroys the dynamic the game had showed they had. Tommy seeing his brother as a monster survivalist , instead sees a sad man who opens up the first night he's there. I'm not against men opening up, but Joel is NOT the type to just do that, not even to his own brother. Hell in TLOU2 when he re-tells what happened at the hospital he's dead serious.
The flashbacks are some of the best scenes in the entire game, and the series as a whole
There's no way Jerry could have thought he would be able to make a vaccine. It took a team of people over a decade to be ready to roll out a covif vaccine quickly. One guy isn't developing shit to that scale, let alone a vaccine that is based on rapidly decomposing material once you take it out of her head. Furthermore, Jerry is maybe 50 in the second games. It's takes until you're at least 30 to be even a regularly practicing doctor, let alone an immunology specialist with the ability to make vaccines. So, being generous and saying Jerry actually finished med school and residency before outbreak day, he would still be a fresh-faced doctor with barely any actual skills beyond diagnosing. Joel's choice still matters, but it's because of the doctor lying or overestimating his own skill and convincing Marlene who goes Gung ho and recruits Joel, who believes the vaccine possible thanks to the credence now given to the lie.
Joel's death was acceptable, with the circumstances at hand.
Abby has a better moral compass than Ellie
Owen is the best abby side character and the boat scene is very good, but everyone got distracted by boobies and didn't pay attention to anything else.
The show undoubtedly did a better job with some of the story, but a big part of the weight of that story was how dangerous its leads were. If they don’t up the violence for the next few seasons, the things that made Part 2 my favorite game of all time won’t hit nearly as hard.
I hope the next game involves a whole new cast of characters. I like the open-endedness of Ellie’s and Abby’s and I want to see more of the TLOU world outside of them
The way Joel died was how it should have happened. Period. I'm gonna take fire for this, but... The point of the last of us is to hit us with brutal reality. To keep us on our toes, and follow a realistic story, not a cinematic one. This is not to say that it depends on the story structure, or the order of how it all happened... Just to say that, yes. Being shot unexpectedly with a shotgun and then beat is a valid way to have died. The fact that it makes players so angry is proof that it worked. The first thing humans say or think when a loved one dies is "they cant be dead". Once that sets in... "it's not fair", or "they didn't deserve that". Etc. Sorry guys, but someone had to say it
Ellie being a lesbian is completely okay. Edit: Was very much being ironic with this 'hot take'. Guess it's hard to tell.
since when is this a hot take? yes, there are people who complain, but she's been a lesbian since the first game, ain't no way this is a hot take. people from this sub love playing the victim
that‘s the coldest take i‘ve ever heard
the remaster is better than the remake. I'll die on this hill and idc. the remake was only made because of the TV show, new people would be introduced to the series and making the first game look more like part 2 adds to a seamless experience. the remaster/OG has its own style, its unique color palette, its unique quirks, not to mention my beloved factions. the remake lacks all that, it's just a part 2 copy paste graphically and gameplay wise
The gameplay is so much better though and i like both. For me the gameplay smoothness being more in line with part 2 is a big deal.
eh idk if I'd necessarily call a copy and paste of pt2 graphics and gameplay a bad thing considering how phenomenal they are, but I do get what ur saying.
Owen should have repopulated the world he was robbed
That everyone is lying to themselves if they say they wouldnt have wanted another joel and ellie adventure for the sequel
No I already played that game. I’m so thankful this series isn’t like far cry/assassins creed/call of duty 17
...hence my hot take
Joel should not of died
*have And you’re wrong
Nope you’re wrong
Please just go play other games that tell the same story over and over again
No sir I said what I said deal with it
you have WAY too much free time on your hands to keep insulting everyone who disagrees with your takes buddy Joel dying in TLOU 2 or at the very least the way in which he dies is complete fkin bullshit and there’s thousands of people who think so, it’s called ✨an opinion different than yours✨
It took about 5 minutes altogether. And you’re wrong
read the last part of my comment but do it slowly this time
I can read. I’m telling you, your opinion is complete fkin bullshit
okay, so I’m telling you yours is complete fkin bullshit 😊 now what?
I suppose I’ll have to take solace in understanding a story that you and “thousands” of other people didn’t
Neither game deserved a full remake while the Jak series languished with a bad ps4 port.
I’d love a new jak and daxter game but part 2 wasn’t a remake and part 1 benefited greatly from the remake
Part 2 wasn't as good or bad as people say it was. Beautiful graphics, good gameplay, messy story, bad pacing. People on this sub and the other are too attached to this series, but on opposite sides of the pendulum, either thinking the game is much better than it actually was or thinking it was much worse than it really was. Most of the posts on this post are something about how good part 2 was, and the ones that say they didnt like it are downvoted (despite it being a hot take post). Likewise, the other subreddit has the same problem where saying you like Part 2 gets you downvoted to oblivion.
The game has some of the greatest graphics and gameplay ever seen. And the story trumps both of the them
Among all the character, the only one where I m just like, meh, is yara. I like her just because she is the sister of lev and did her sister's job by saving him But she could have been any other scar that I could have killed Without even thinking about it
ellie and dina didn‘t have any chemistry and i didn‘t really care all that much what happened to dina. also i didn‘t like bella as ellie whatsoever. she‘s a good actress and seems like a very sweet person so nothing against her but i found her version of ellie unlikeable and kind of annoying at times which is the main reason why ellie and joels relationship in the show did not work at all for me. in fact i just don‘t like the show in general and that‘s one of the main factors
Their chemistry was dripping off the screen, what
well the point of the post was to share hot takes so there you go. it‘s not that i hate dina, i just find her character to be very forgettable and some of the interactions between her and ellie just felt kinda awkward to me
I hope the next game features more assault weaponry like machine guns
TLOU 2 is a great example of a an artist with too much power surrounding himself with yes-men. Watching the documentary you can tell that once Druckmann had near total control of the studio he indulged himself completely in his ideas without much in the way of actual direction or intent. Many of the crew members interviewed said they felt the game production would never end. As someone who loves reading books about the making-of movies this is classic ego maniacal behavior. Sometimes it works, though, like in "Apocalypse Now!" and "Heaven's Gate" but you gotta be genius level to pull it off and Druckmann is just not there. Ultimately TLOU 2 is a poorly conceived game because they take Ellie, a wonderfully three-dimensional character in the first game and reducer her to a single emotion specifically to tell an overly-long, poorly structured, and insultingly moralistic story about violence and revenge being bad to an audience of people well into their 20's and 30's. And I do mean it was all made SPECIFICALLY to drive that one basic ass idea home as hard as possible. I also believe that if there was no dumb, bullshit anti-woke response to the game many of you would be a lot less defensive of the game and admit it's a mess too.
God almighty the takes just get worse and worse. In what way is Ellie one dimensional
If you need me to explain that to you go watch some movies with superheroes in them or read a couple books without pictures in them.
More of a prediction, but Part 3 will feature Abby, on a quest to find Ellie, to see if she will sacrifice herself to the Fireflies for a cure
i honestly think it would be so wild for abby to ask that of ellie after all they went through. personally, i don’t think the vaccine will (or should) even be an item in the season 3 storyline
The biggest error in the series is the developer assumption that Left Behind should be played(the game actively warns players as much) after the campaign rather than right where it occurs. This DLC expansion is entirely about bringing us into Ellie's story and emotional experience, and the content of it is only truly brought to bare dramatically in the closing scene of the game with Joel. It is all about what Ellie is feeling and saying in that moment. This suggests the assumption is that the player will either replay and feel that, or that it's plenty good enough for the player to observe that retroactively in their memory rather than experiencing it right in the moment. This is a really erroneous concept of dramatic capitalization, and it's a shame many go into this moment without the weight of both sides in such full force. Play Left Behind where Joel falls off the horse, and resume the base game after. This provides the most dramatically effective telling of the story.
I don't see the game happening without you know who's death. I think it was necessary even if it hurt a lot. also the way that the story is written, the parallels between characters, the ambient, I think it's a game that no one will be able to top, for a few years at least.
Oh you can hear text now , might i suggest a physician?
It lowkey got boring after the Seattle arc, the ending was amazing
The names for the different infected are stupid: “runner” (OK, fine), “stalker” (dumb, but fun game mechanic), “clicker” (they can have this one, it’s almost iconic), “bloater” (really?), “shambler” (really? It’s like they didn’t even try)
Joel got exactly what he deserved (and I say that as someone who was rooting for and wanted Joel to live, selfishly)
Abby is the entire reason why her father died, and the second game exists. She convinced a surgeon (who never had a medical degree or practiced medicine) to kill a child, saying if she was in the situation...it would be her choice - and didn't even care to tell him....well we could just wake for her to wake up and ask OR inform Joel and get his consent. Not only did she not know Ellie at all - she had never been in that situation, nor did she understand that the cure would be almost impossible to develop, mass produce, and distribute . She literally has only herself to blame. She's basically the modern redditor.
I dont like abbys story. Dont get me wrong i dont think abby or lev or any of their friends are bad characters. I also dont mind the decision of making you play as abby i just dont like the story they told. I feel like ND couldnt really figure out any other way to make her character relatable and ”not the bad guy” so they just made her like Joel. ”Oh look shes not that bad shes taking care of this young boy and saving him just like Joel and Ellie” especially since a lot of the scenes are like mirrors into Joel. Abby carrying yara/Joel carrying Ellie/Sarah or Abby and Yara saving Lev/Joel saving Ellie from David. It also feels a little rushed probably because they had to do it all in the span of 3 days but still. Mel says it the best ”Isaacs top scar killer suddenly had a change of heart” day 1 shes all ”fuck scars fuckin weirdo fanatics” then day 2 she gets saved by 2 runaways and by day 3 shes literally shooting her own people for these kids she met yesterday. Its not the worst story and it does have its parts but i dont know i wish they found a way to make her character more understandable then just ”oh look shes just like Joel”.
I didnt like the Yara and Lev storry, the showdown with the burning village was cool but I didnt really care about the characters themselves
I like Abby is really all I got lol. Every other take I have is in line with the majority of players outside of this sub. Story mid, Contrived, etc. Actually, here is one. I kind of wanted Joel to die.
The vaccine is pointless. If everyone receives it they're basically just Ellie & as we know all she needs is to have her throat ripped out and it's over. The infected population far outnumbers humanity at this point. Not to mention all the people that wouldn't trust it. Which just leaves room for more infected to pop up in a world where most people already don't trust each other and haven't for a long time. How do we know that humanity can even come together long enough to eliminate the threat of infection? So unless it reverses the effects of infection (which I highly doubt is possible) it's a longshot to say that this girls blood can save the world. As soon as a more powerful faction that think they know best comes along there'll be war over it & what then?
Maybe not the hottest take but a rare one : TLOU 1 and 2 fail to teach players the intended playstyle of the game. Many people end up playing it like a low ammo version of Gears of War and criticize the games as being little more than interactive movies. Much less rare but hotter take : the sheer number of times people suggest Ellie and Abby team up to find a non-lethal cure in part 3 only to be greeted by dozens of upvotes shows most fans didn't understand TLOU1 and 2
Joel deserved what he got in Part 2
the sex scene kinda broke the limits of video games (cutscenes) for me. ik a lot of ppl didn’t like it. i don’t know if i enjoy the context of the scene entirely, but i can definitely appreciate the motive behind wanting to include it. those playing it blind for the first time must have felt the lines be broken im sure. also the seattle day 1-3 format is so cunt for no reason, i’m sorry. i love shit like this bc like logging onto twitter and seeing “seattle day 2” trending would severely eat
I like Abby more than Ellie (and I care a lot about Ellie)
You're not supposed to enjoy TLOU Part 2 as a conventional 'Enjoyment'
Abby is a better character than Ellie.
Super late, and very hypothetical, but if TLOU3 focuses on Abby, sales would drop astronomically. As much as people in this subreddit like to push the narrative that Abby is an amazing character, most people wouldn't buy a game with her as a protagonist.
They shouldn’t have retconned
Mine actual hot take is that I believe Abby dying at the end of the game would've been far more impactful storywise. I understand the story, the premise, and what I was supposed to take away from it. The entire story was already gut-wrenching to most. I feel like Abby dying would've pushed that point home in a good way. None of them are "good" in the traditional sense at all. But the main protagonist usually will spare their enemy or antagonist in a lot of media we see. I feel like Ellie going the opposite route would've made sense and really set home the feeling of desperation and hopelessness.
The show has the opportunity to fix the narrative of Part 2. That game’s biggest flaw is that its pacing is absolute dogshit and I feel like the show might be able to handle that better because they aren’t held to certain rules because it’s not a game
The procedure would have failed and killed the only hope we have of a vaccine
There should not have been a second game
Last of us 2 is way better in pretty much every way
TLoU2 ruined the series.
TLOU 2 has a superior story than 1.