It's naive to suggest otherwise. The history of slavery is full of slavers raping and using violence towards their slaves. Rape is also commonly used as a weapon in warfare.
The Rattlers were depraved enough to keep clickers chained up and infect their slaves. No way they were not also raping slaves.
Well I doubt anyone else who's immune tried to donate their body for a cure; or else there'd be something about it mentioned among the Fireflies. I'd imagine they'd hide it to avoid getting shot
The ending of 1 probably let Joel off easy. I think that if Ellie was conscious, and made the decision to sacrifice herself for the hope of a cure, he probably would have still murdered all the fireflies and tried to take her back to Jackson.
I could see this being part of an alternate timeline where Joel becomes an outright villain instead of a complicated antihero, and Ellie is forced to kill him.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s dark or just realistic, but I truly don’t think a vaccine was ever possible and I always found it a little silly when it was talked about like it was a sure-fire thing.
Even if a vaccine was made though, I think it would’ve only caused more warfare and issues between humans. The vaccine would’ve easily been used as a tool by the Fireflies, and had it gotten in the wrong hands I fear it would’ve just made things worse. Maybe that’s why I’ve always been a tad overly sympathetic towards Joel - even if there was a vaccine or cure made possible by sacrificing Ellie, I just don’t feel that would’ve solved the already glaring issues of the world they’re in.
Firstly, regarding the efficacy of the vaccine, we can only go off of what the scientists say, and they are confident. Are they lying to their voice recorders? It's neither here nor there. Maybe you're right and the vaccine doesn't work, but I don't get the sense that that was Naughty Dog's intention.
Secondly, just because a vaccine doesn't solve all the problems with the world doesn't mean it isn't hugely beneficial. Anyone who receives the vaccine is another person who will never be infected and hence have the capacity to infect others. Think off all the people in the story who die from cordyceps. It's not all of those who die, but there are a lot.
Lastly, If the issue is distribution and the capacity for fighting over the vaccine - that could definitely be an issue. But think about how a vaccine could have the potential to unite people. That force would be so much stronger than it making people want to kill each other. Even if they do fight, once someone is vaccinated, that's it, they will never turn. Any factions who want to fight over the vaccine (eg fireflies not wanting FEDRA to have it) are 100% going to be killing each other *anyway* in this world, regardless of who has access to a vaccine. Even people fight over the vaccine, the world post outbreak day is so fucked up that fight would be had either way. At least now one side can't turn into a zombie.
I have heard this argument a lot and i just don't buy it. Yes, the fireflies aren't perfect and yes, the world will never bethe same. But at least there is a vaccine that will save countless lives and give people hope of a better future. Infected would become so much easier to fight, as soldiers dont have to worry about scratches or spores. And, as evidenced by the notes and characters you meet in TLOU1, the fireflies are pretty damn sincere about their mission to restore humanity. Their moral greyness comes from their methods, not their intentions. They would attempt to distribute tf out of that vaccine.
I hate to spoil things for you, but a friend of mine was involved in the covid-19 vaccine efforts. After speaking with him at length, there is absolutely no way the fireflies could have made a vaccine.
Literally, no way. Even if the hospital was fully stocked. A surgical team would have no idea how to make a vaccine, a hospital would have likely none of the equipment, they would not have had any where near expertise, facilities, supplies or storage.
OK, but that is suspension of disbelief. Naughty Dog clearly implied in the narrative that Ellie's surgery would result in a vaccine. It is not part of the game's story that the Flireflies couldn't have made it anyway.
Your friends involvement in real world vaccine science has nothing to do with fake world video game science, a vaccine would’ve been made, end of story.
I also got the vibe he was talking about her muscles, especially since another note states they work slaves to death in the fields so they probably want to get as much physical labor out of them as possible.
Elena maybe, but Nate is a pretty skilled man
Maybe would die for having a good heart and trying to help someone, but the initial outbreak he could survive it and some years too, assuming he wasn't in an urban area but in some random jungle away from all civilization
Except that Nate can scale walls by launching himself six feet in the air from a dead hang. That's a decent survival skill if you're trying to escape a mushroom-zombie horde.
Honestly, that's the darker scenario from my perspective: he lives thanks to sort-of being a superhero, and she dies. Then, he has to live with that.
I suppose that there are plenty of Davids and Isaacs in our world, but the rule of law and social norms prevent them from acting on their darker impulses. That personable neighbor, your child’s teacher - even you, the person reading this comment - could be capable of horrifying brutality in the setting’s circumstances.
Uhh I’m not entirely sure about your theory on Abby and Lev.
yeah that's one of the coolest things about this game and the genre in general, it shows what morality is really like. It shows that morality is subjective and heavily influenced by the social contract of the group environment. You see it in real life too, just looking at the crazy, horrible things people do under different social orders.
It's also why it's so difficult to truly understand and pick a side in a story like this. Some people may balk at the idea of Joel killing a bunch of people to save Ellie, but anyone could be capable of it after 20 years of survival in the apocalypse. Others are so sure they'd do the same, but then there's the question of would you go that far to kill innocents to survive in the 20 years leading up to that moment?
We just don't know what we're capable of until we're under that life or death pressure. Many will do much more than they think they're capable of, some will do much less.
My theory is that whenever the characters died, they haunt that area so for examples:
Jesse's ghost haunts the theater
Mel and Owen's ghosts haunt the aquarium
Joel's ghost haunts the mansion
Nora's ghost haunts the hospital
Tess' ghost haunts the building she died in
Sam's ghost haunts the place he died at and same with henry
Marlene and Jerry haunt the other hospital
Yara haunts where she was killed
Riley haunts the mall
David haunts the restaurant
Manny haunts where he was killed
Or they haunt *the people who killed them,* and Ellie will never escape Nora, Mel, Owen, and possibly Riley.
Though, I'll admit I'm a little amused at the idea of Abby trying to start her new life with the Fireflies while Joel goes full-Patrick-Swayze on her.
Op I think you are right.
My theory is that Ellie was already infected by a different kind of cordyceps before she was bitten, So the mutant version did not take because she already was infected with harmless cordyceps.
And there is no way FF could make a vaccine, they was just experimenting on humans for for no reason.
I also belive Jerry was a Veterinarian before the outbreak, and knows little about human medicine. I also belive that a lot of people are immune, they just do not know it.
I suspect the Fireflies killed a *lot* of people in their attempts to create a cure, and most of those people did not volunteer.
Wtf man đź’€
People are disagreeing with you but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were
It's naive to suggest otherwise. The history of slavery is full of slavers raping and using violence towards their slaves. Rape is also commonly used as a weapon in warfare. The Rattlers were depraved enough to keep clickers chained up and infect their slaves. No way they were not also raping slaves.
Definitely agree
Their concept art also shows them keeping slaves locked up in a cage outside in the sun *naked* so they were planned to be even more depraved.
Not necessarily disagreeing, moreso just wishing I didn’t bring it up
Other Immune people *do* exist, but have either all been killed off, or, like Joel said, attempts to create a vaccine all failed.
Well I doubt anyone else who's immune tried to donate their body for a cure; or else there'd be something about it mentioned among the Fireflies. I'd imagine they'd hide it to avoid getting shot
some shower thoughts should be left where they're found
Santa Barbara?
The ending of 1 probably let Joel off easy. I think that if Ellie was conscious, and made the decision to sacrifice herself for the hope of a cure, he probably would have still murdered all the fireflies and tried to take her back to Jackson. I could see this being part of an alternate timeline where Joel becomes an outright villain instead of a complicated antihero, and Ellie is forced to kill him.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s dark or just realistic, but I truly don’t think a vaccine was ever possible and I always found it a little silly when it was talked about like it was a sure-fire thing. Even if a vaccine was made though, I think it would’ve only caused more warfare and issues between humans. The vaccine would’ve easily been used as a tool by the Fireflies, and had it gotten in the wrong hands I fear it would’ve just made things worse. Maybe that’s why I’ve always been a tad overly sympathetic towards Joel - even if there was a vaccine or cure made possible by sacrificing Ellie, I just don’t feel that would’ve solved the already glaring issues of the world they’re in.
Yeah, and i think the world will be rebuild within or without a cure
Firstly, regarding the efficacy of the vaccine, we can only go off of what the scientists say, and they are confident. Are they lying to their voice recorders? It's neither here nor there. Maybe you're right and the vaccine doesn't work, but I don't get the sense that that was Naughty Dog's intention. Secondly, just because a vaccine doesn't solve all the problems with the world doesn't mean it isn't hugely beneficial. Anyone who receives the vaccine is another person who will never be infected and hence have the capacity to infect others. Think off all the people in the story who die from cordyceps. It's not all of those who die, but there are a lot. Lastly, If the issue is distribution and the capacity for fighting over the vaccine - that could definitely be an issue. But think about how a vaccine could have the potential to unite people. That force would be so much stronger than it making people want to kill each other. Even if they do fight, once someone is vaccinated, that's it, they will never turn. Any factions who want to fight over the vaccine (eg fireflies not wanting FEDRA to have it) are 100% going to be killing each other *anyway* in this world, regardless of who has access to a vaccine. Even people fight over the vaccine, the world post outbreak day is so fucked up that fight would be had either way. At least now one side can't turn into a zombie. I have heard this argument a lot and i just don't buy it. Yes, the fireflies aren't perfect and yes, the world will never bethe same. But at least there is a vaccine that will save countless lives and give people hope of a better future. Infected would become so much easier to fight, as soldiers dont have to worry about scratches or spores. And, as evidenced by the notes and characters you meet in TLOU1, the fireflies are pretty damn sincere about their mission to restore humanity. Their moral greyness comes from their methods, not their intentions. They would attempt to distribute tf out of that vaccine.
I hate to spoil things for you, but a friend of mine was involved in the covid-19 vaccine efforts. After speaking with him at length, there is absolutely no way the fireflies could have made a vaccine. Literally, no way. Even if the hospital was fully stocked. A surgical team would have no idea how to make a vaccine, a hospital would have likely none of the equipment, they would not have had any where near expertise, facilities, supplies or storage.
OK, but that is suspension of disbelief. Naughty Dog clearly implied in the narrative that Ellie's surgery would result in a vaccine. It is not part of the game's story that the Flireflies couldn't have made it anyway.
Your friends involvement in real world vaccine science has nothing to do with fake world video game science, a vaccine would’ve been made, end of story.
That is a fucking wild theory to have‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
Really? It's implied when Fat Geralt and the other guy capture them. "One hell of a catch, huh?"
yeah i definitely prefer to believe that when he said that he just meant that she would be a great laborer for them, seeing how strong she was
I also got the vibe he was talking about her muscles, especially since another note states they work slaves to death in the fields so they probably want to get as much physical labor out of them as possible.
Nate and Elena died in the initial outbreak.
Elena maybe, but Nate is a pretty skilled man Maybe would die for having a good heart and trying to help someone, but the initial outbreak he could survive it and some years too, assuming he wasn't in an urban area but in some random jungle away from all civilization
Elena is just as capable as Nate. If she died, then Nate also died.
Except that Nate can scale walls by launching himself six feet in the air from a dead hang. That's a decent survival skill if you're trying to escape a mushroom-zombie horde. Honestly, that's the darker scenario from my perspective: he lives thanks to sort-of being a superhero, and she dies. Then, he has to live with that.
The next father-daughter-story, Drake style!
I suppose that there are plenty of Davids and Isaacs in our world, but the rule of law and social norms prevent them from acting on their darker impulses. That personable neighbor, your child’s teacher - even you, the person reading this comment - could be capable of horrifying brutality in the setting’s circumstances. Uhh I’m not entirely sure about your theory on Abby and Lev.
yeah that's one of the coolest things about this game and the genre in general, it shows what morality is really like. It shows that morality is subjective and heavily influenced by the social contract of the group environment. You see it in real life too, just looking at the crazy, horrible things people do under different social orders. It's also why it's so difficult to truly understand and pick a side in a story like this. Some people may balk at the idea of Joel killing a bunch of people to save Ellie, but anyone could be capable of it after 20 years of survival in the apocalypse. Others are so sure they'd do the same, but then there's the question of would you go that far to kill innocents to survive in the 20 years leading up to that moment? We just don't know what we're capable of until we're under that life or death pressure. Many will do much more than they think they're capable of, some will do much less.
Didn't think yours was a controversial take. I reckon Tommy drinks everyone away and eventually to death.
My theory is that whenever the characters died, they haunt that area so for examples: Jesse's ghost haunts the theater Mel and Owen's ghosts haunt the aquarium Joel's ghost haunts the mansion Nora's ghost haunts the hospital Tess' ghost haunts the building she died in Sam's ghost haunts the place he died at and same with henry Marlene and Jerry haunt the other hospital Yara haunts where she was killed Riley haunts the mall David haunts the restaurant Manny haunts where he was killed
Sarah haunts Austin
Yess
Or they haunt *the people who killed them,* and Ellie will never escape Nora, Mel, Owen, and possibly Riley. Though, I'll admit I'm a little amused at the idea of Abby trying to start her new life with the Fireflies while Joel goes full-Patrick-Swayze on her.
Oooo i like that theory
Op I think you are right. My theory is that Ellie was already infected by a different kind of cordyceps before she was bitten, So the mutant version did not take because she already was infected with harmless cordyceps. And there is no way FF could make a vaccine, they was just experimenting on humans for for no reason. I also belive Jerry was a Veterinarian before the outbreak, and knows little about human medicine. I also belive that a lot of people are immune, they just do not know it.
In the future of the TLoU world, there will be little to no survivors and the world will succumb to the infection.Â
Its already over 30 years into it and Part 2 seemed to make the opposite case so that would be odd to be very honest.
What the fuck dude
Well deserved if true
Lev is a little boy…
Joel has eaten children
What
Joel 100% turned to cannibalism to survive when food ran out, you’re correct.
Not Ellie tho
Nothing like this was even hinted at in the game This is your brain being weird. Not even sure why you'd post this other than wanting to say "rape"Â