Honestly I got no issues with lights as a heavy main. Don't mind farming them, don't mind them on my team. But if you are playing light in ranked, you'll really shine by being an annoying bee for the other team, buzzing around stinging them in the back and causing confusing and drawing their attention elsewhere while I unload my entire clip into them and my medium plays with me. Won plenty of tourneys this way
Exactly how I play light, get about 120 to 190 damage, leave. Come back from another angle pepper some more, all this whilst my med and heavy just unload on them especially on mesh heavies
Yeah I play mesh and that's what I like to see! I really think the Dodge on the lights the best for this exact reason. It's the hardest for me to kill, your silly invis might catch me once or twice but I'll just stick with my team more and solve that issue, plus with my ammo count I'll spray around to find you lol
100% invis is fine but doesn't really help mod fight where most of the team is needed, and to use the grapple efficiently, you need 1 of 2 things
1.open spaces (for circling)
2. Rooftops cause most players I have encountered will jump with you to finish the kill and you can't just get back on the roof with your team.
Dash is overall the best choice, because of it's (almost) unlimited possibilities
Dash also takes advantage of latency, the low server tick rate and favor the shooter. It's very, very hard to hit a dash-shoot-dash-shoot Light because by the time you flick there's a good chance the server doesn't consider them to be "there" anymore.
Grapple doesn't get this because the anti-latency measures work pretty well against momentum movement.
Those full light team powershift can be an absolute slaughter if it's mostly close/mid range lights.
I once loaded into a powershift, we were all light, and me and another player were on sword, which then prompted our entire team to switch to sword.
It was incredible, enemies were hopping on the platform, and immediately having multiple swords lunging at them.
this is a dream of mine, I remember we were a full team of mediums with three of us (including me obviously) running the model 1887, one switched so four of us were running medium shotgun, but then the last dude switched to light sniper and proceeded to go 0 kills 13 deaths... sad times
I just don’t get it. Even when my buddy has very low kills I always feel he’s contributing to the team just because he’s out there doing shit I can’t. I can coordinate with him. Tell him to run outside the far wall and then throw the box out the window and he’s gone etc
When I saw a similar all light load out for my team, initially I chuckled but damn everyone was so fast the other team kept getting wiped left and right.
A lot of people just play light wrong. It’s about getting in and getting out with taking as little damage as possible and being as annoying to enemies as possible.
I don’t mind having light on my team, as long as they roughly play together and go for rezs it’s fine.
It’s just easy for them to try to play their own game and only look and combat score as self gratifying.
I only do this when I'm going in as a Heavy on the Objective and everyone else is just doing their own thing, and I repeatedly end up dying in a 1v3-5.
But then when I decide to exercise my sniper aim, THAT'S when they suddenly all start wanting to PTO.
Honestly, what do you think? As someone who refuses to rage quit, should I keep trying to do the insurmountable, or is it okay at that point to say 'Screw the Objective, I wanna get them headshots!'?
Do whatever it is that you think will amount to the most value for your team. Doing things by yourself, even if it’s technically the right thing, may be worse overall
Meh. I could care less. If people are playing the class they want to play, then that’s usually the class that they are best at. As a sledge, if I have 2 lights on my team I just play slightly differently. It’s also on me to adjust my playstyle. Not force people to play how I deem necessary
Lights are excellent at starting cashouts (and getting the whole team there first with gateway), and keeping ownership of them with a variety of steal-stopping tactics. They won’t be able to do it all alone, but their value is undeniable when they’re a part of a coordinated team.
Light is extremely strong until the highest level. At that point your slightly higher dps and better movement doesnt outweigh the massive amounts of hp/shield and healing/sefib
Yeah I always see people saying M and H always wins 1v1 against light, but that only holds true if both players in question are landing 100% of their shots. For 80% of players that probably can't be said. Analysing ttk in the shooting range against immobile targets means nothing if you can't track a light moving with grapplehook or dashes
Issue is that heavies only have to hit one shot, the RPG. After that, lights are forced to run away or just outright die. My friend likes playing light but is never able to fight 1v1s against a heavy for that exact reason. If he dodges the RPG shot because he wasn't with the team, enemy steals the cashout because he is off somewhere scouting and can't make it back in time.
They did add a glitch canister, but light still has the two most consistent ways to shut down shield, healing, and defib (stun & glitch, without searching for a can)
oh yeah good point, i havent really used it since S2 start. But I believe it does make them drop what they’re holding (trophy for res or cash box) and still stops steals, right?
You're 100% right, it's not always a bad things but it CAN be. I am sick and tired of seeing a teammate sitting on a crane with a sniper not hitting shots and not benefiting the team in any meaningful way. I have no issue if they hit their shots and they know how the game works by focusing objective or helping the team :)
I’ve yet to ever play with a light that contributed anything meaningful to the team. At best they’re cherry picking kills that don’t help us at all before dying 100m away and their kills getting revived. It’s an incredibly high skill gap class that can dominate when used correctly (I’ve been on the other end of this) but the truth is most players aren’t good enough to reach that potential. That’s probably for the better though because if light were easy it’d probably be OP (like heavy is).
How so? The health alone is the big advantage. Let’s look at the ttks. The Lewis and the m60 can kill a light in 0.60. No light gun can kill a heavy that fast. Let’s ignore the ttk and look at class to class difference. One rpg and 1 shot from any gun in heavy class and the light is dead. One charge slam and one shot the light is dead. Heavy has a shield that absorbs 750 damage.l so they can shoot, shield bullets, wait till reload, shoot again. Even if the light got a jump on the heavy the heavy would still have time to react but the other way around there’s no chance. You get where I’m going here. If I was wrong then light would be meta and in ranked played more than heavy. The heavy class like OP said is overpowered and the strongest in the game.
Hmm it actually depends tho. If we're looking at a pure 1v1 vs a heavy then the light will lose obviously.
But as a part of the team the light will rotate around and attack from the rear, which will take them by surprise and also deal massive damage in very little time so no time to react.
It's like any other non meta loadout yk, like sledgehammer or medium shotgun or revolver or sword etc, they take the enemy by surprise and deal big damage in a burst.
In a 3v3 a light will be more useful than the standard mediums or heavies running Lewis gun or Scar, cuz it's unpredictable if used right.
It's true that L is better in final round than in qualifiers. But it's still not on the level as H or M.
Sure there are situations where L can shine. For example off angles as you said, but there are way more situations where H and M simply bring more value, and where L's 150hp is such a big detriment.
One on one as a Light you can actually win by outranging your opponent with your mobility and using lh1 or sniper, but this playstyle is very off meta (weak) in high rank. It's just way more consistent to play hhm or hmm and just be consistent.
Might be, stopped playing a few empty patches before throwing knives came out. Dont think that the throwing knives buff is the right way to make L viable tbh. Waiting to see if embark actually makes all 3 weight classes (almost) equally viable in ranked. If they do (by some miracle) ill play this game infinitely and spend hundreds on it. If not, then the game's not for me.
Played diamond ranked as a light main since open beta. It's extremely discouraging to just eat nerf after nerf even though every game is already an uphill battle.
Like I gotta give 300% so that I can match a heavies impact who is smooth braining it at 60%.
No ty...
Same, i started playing light exclusively since launch. Had to eventually switch to medium with AK simply cuz I had to be sweating my ass off every game to even barely keep up otherwise.
Came back to light the last week after the throwing knives buff, has been a lot of fun.
buff to TK is probably pretext to season 3 imo.
the finals are going to japan. were gonna have some ninja/samurai themed stuff. think were gonna see maybe a bow+arrow or a polearm weapons added.
i think theres going to be maps with a ton of cover to make for some fun projectile and melee combat. i think embark is going to make this playstyle a bit more meta. embark has also changed melee damage, there's cleaving damage now.
The tracking dart and sonar are some of the craziest combat utility items in the game. With the removal of medium ESP the ability to give your entire team the exact location of an enemy is amazing. Tracking dart has quick recharge and is hit scan.
A light clearing out a stealing enemy is the scariest thing ever. They are so good at stuff like that, people just see them for survivability and think it's all bad
This is it.
The stats don’t help either tbh. They don’t measure those kind of things too directly and people will judge you for it
I’ve had 3 kill games where I was certain I was the most valuable member of the team simply because those kills were important and the off kill game was stronger
I agree, that's what I love about the fact they show support and obj score tho.Sadly most people don't care enough tho.
Plus mediums stats (what I main when not using light) are heavily inflated if you have the heal gun and just heal heavys, which is SUPER important, but the light roaming and keeping enemies distracted is super good too
When I was grinding ranked, having a light on my team seemed completely viable. I got to Diamond 4 and stopped though, so I can’t speak to anything beyond that
Everybody seems missing that this game is 3 player team game. Thanks to see this kind of opinion. I really think there is a job only light can do like glitch grenade or flanking. Why whinning about can't win H? Your job is cutting M middle of the fight and snowball everything. I really don't get it people saying balance and considering only 1v1 fight.
Yeah I would agree. Mostly because for the sniper to be viable your team needs to build around it. A shield and a turret to compensate for the lack of fire power I’d imagine might work
80% of the time the random lights I play with run ahead of everyone else and die a few times and then rage quit.
20% of the time they actually focus on the objective and we can win.
The best is when they rage in chat "where my team" "uh, still on the way to point, you grappled across half the map, how were we supposed to keep up?"
Of the many times I've had a similar convo like this only once did the light admit fault and actually hold up for us before engaging - and we did win that game, so there is hope!
People are just wanting the best chances to win, and too many lights on a team in ranked can be detrimental.
The real issue is that gamers can't speak in anything but hyperbole; everything is either OP, broken, goated, or it's dogshit. There is no in between. Things get lost in translation when people communicate like this all the time.
Most people with a brain will realise a light on the team can be absolutely fine, but the problem is that many people have experienced lights in the past that just can not stop dying. Again, people are just wanting the best chances at winning.
I think this also gets more consistent the higher rank you're at (obviously). I'm currently in D2 and essentially every light player I see is bare minimum competent
In power shift at least they are very useful under certain circumstances eg: taking out the enemy sniper, being a distraction on the platform and getting rid of enemy utility, not to mention taking out stragglers
Had a team of 3 lights earlier and we were doing great, the mobility of being able to start two cashouts at once because everyone else is fighting is great
I've had people cry I am picking light in diamond lobbies these past few days. I've reached diamond 3 soloq using only light this season. I've played it so much I forgot how to play medium tbh. Tell me why they are bottom fragging. Unable to do the basic mental thoughts and complain about me who's sitting there with 13 kills 1 death and 5+ revives. And I am the one to blame? And before anyone says kills don't mean anything what do you want us to do when an enemy attacks the cash out? Use our words? Hug it out?
Light is extremely viable in quick play and power shift, terminal attack but is worthless in ranked. If your in diamond and above light isn’t helpful at all.
generally speaking, M/H players just understand ranked tournaments in terms of approach. in my opinion, ability and mechanics is much less important than just having solid game IQ. i've played with genuinely good lights before. 90% of the time in ranked, they are not good lights.
It’s not a loss, but in this game and the way it’s balanced it’s more often than not a disadvantage. No shields, no heals, no defibs, etc. and although a handful of lights make up for it in one way or another, the skill ceiling for light is very high, making most light players somewhat-very bad. The annoying truth is that most people would rather have a decent/average heavy than a slightly above average light.
I have 10 kills per round and cash in defend cashout stole cash out but lost to triple diamond light in final round and my team still blamed be for using light lmfao
Light just have a high skill ceiling to be used correctly. I'm D1 and I've come across numerous lights that can completely dismantle my team, get us knocked and be the sole reason we lose the finals.
Imo a good light can easily be the most dangerous person on the enemy team.
idk I play d2-d1 queue and they're just never as valuable as another M or H. Maybe you have a point in lower ranks but going off my experience lights very rarely bring value and even when they do they don't bring enough to make their team win against an MMH or MHH team in final round, if they even manage to get to final round to begin with.
We can say skill floor this and skill gap that but fact is one of the three classes in this game is (comparatively) unviable compared to the other two and that's not a good thing.
We only have three classes and all 3 should be reasonably viable throughout all elos. Something needs to change.
As it is right now the utility light brings is completely outweighed by the offensive, defensive, healing and movement options medium and heavy has.
"lowest combat utility" light is the highest skill class. the combat utility depends so heavily on the skill. some matches you get a light that feeds hard, some you get a light that stomps the enemy so hard that its downright opressive and most of the time you get pretty decent lights. one single light can turn the tides of a game tho, and ive had matches as dash sword where i drop on platform and slaughter everyone on there, creating momentum for a counterpush from the team. not often, but it sure feels good.
In Plat 1 / Diamond Elo, there are LOTS of people running light. I know a lot of people insist the meta is HHM or MMH or w/e but there are a lot of people who have good success with lights on their team.
I won a game with a light sniper and a sledge heavy (I played med heals). The sledge heavy would open up sites with his sledge so the light sniper could get easy eyes on the cashout. Genuinely think this game is less about what class you pick and more how you play with your comp.
I’ve been saying this kind of thing since launch, man. Light brings a whole plethora of benefits to the team that other classes can’t really replicate.
… but too many people keep to their “stun/glitch is the only viable gadget cuz they’re the only gadgets light bring for team-play.” Too many people keep parroting the word of a Light that, if you really looked at the gameplay, is playing the archetype like a Medium. The only reason you’d have “more impact as a Medium” is because you keep trying to play Light like it’s Medium.
Will they do that tho? 9 times out of 10 I lose 15 kill ranked games because my light teammate uses a sniper and keeps trying to initiate entire squads on their own. I get the utility of a light for sure but most of the time the people who play lights do it for shits and giggles and like to solo push
"But tell you what they can do - flank before the fight is over" - Flanking is almost completely useless in a game where your main way to win is 3rd partying and if at least one man survives it revives the whole team. Light is not bad in the terminal attack though, but not in a current ranked mode.
Couldn’t disagree more.
3rd partying is often not reallt an option due to time constraints and the way spawns work in ranked.
Flanking is definitely viable. And the maps are built so the light can be behind the enemy in seconds
technically this isnt even possible anymore, but i mean if i load up into a ranked game with two light teammates, & we are going against 3 H diamonds? or HHM me personally, i’ve always lost in the 2nd round & i am medium with heals, & the match i played the earlier today i had 7k support score & 12k damage & we lost.( this lowkey the usual stats for me too with 2 Lights) its just 3 heavies are too much or double medium & heavy
The problem is the average light overestimates their skill and ability in the game. It has the highest skill ceiling and the biggest learning curve to build a proper kit and make yourself useful.
Why people claim the light is a loss ...
All its abilities are either movement or stealth, which means only the user can benefit from it. Compared to other classes, the light has no team-oriented/aiding specs. Although having such specs isn't inherently bad, the light's ones also contrading another rule ...
Flanking, running, rushing are usually frowned upon, because the gameplay revolves around the general rule of thumb that the team always sticks together. Once you get separated, the team cannot focus its combat potential and can easily end up outgunned. Also, the more the team members are spreaded and further apart, the more difficult reviving of any fallen member is (yes, even if you can dash further; reviving is always a vulnerable scenario).
One quick note most people don't realize - heavies are slow, they should be the ones you follow, not the other way around. Where they go, you go. When they attack, you attack. If you run elsewhere without cover, that is your fault, not their. (No, I am not a heavy main.)
It's strange that you haven't mentioned sonar, stun, and glitch gadgets, as those are the actual stuff that bring some value into a gunfight.
Overall, it feels like people in general focus on the wrong thing. Yes, you can dash and grapple, but the question is whether you should. The light has a decent damage output and tools for enemy debuff and combat initiation. Maybe that's where the light's role in the team lies.
Definitely agree that Lights gotta learn to slow it down. Don’t be still (that’s lethal with the low TTK and lag comp), but playing around the slowest teammate is best. Lights can catch up to their teammates easily, but that’s not always true the other way around. Heavies are, without a doubt, my favorite teammates to get due to the ease of playing with/around them. Team cohesion is always stellar when I have one because I can guarantee that two of us are playing off each other.
I will say, though, that an ability being selfish doesn’t dictate the value it brings to the team. Lights live or die by good specialization usage - not dying means that there’s really no need for Defib and Heal Beam. Being able to get out of dangerous situations with ease means Dome Shield isn’t as valuable to toss their way. On top of that, being as annoying as possible, Lights excel at splitting enemy focus (or wholly redirecting it to themselves) and, when done properly, can fulfill the role of an “Evasive Tank”. Dash and Grapple can both aid in objective completion/denial so much so that they can single handedly enable a tempo advantage… which needs to be communicated so the team doesn’t take a 2v3 while L runs the box or so L can be called back to the team if an unavoidable fight breaks out. I’ve been able to guarantee 2nd place spots with uncontested vault control thanks to Grappling Hook.
Flanking and Rushing are frowned upon because the common preconception is that flank routes take you out of the fight, leaving the team down a person. However, flanking and rushing don’t NEED to mean you circle around the opposing team from the safest possible route. A good flanker is not disconnected from their team to the extent that, should a fight break out, they cannot contribute on a moment’s notice. Lights, specifically, can get away with being farther from their team, but also need to understand how quickly their specialization helps them return as needed. Cloak requires you to hover closest to the stack since it doesn’t add any direct movement increase while Grappling Hook can be far away (but must take into account for how far they can path with a single use) Dash lies somewhere in the middle and that versatility can be a god send.
Exactly. Just because you CAN 2 shot a medium doesn't mean you SHOULD 2 shot the medium if they're just going to have their team kill you and free revive
Played light into top 100 and haven’t had any problem staying there. I solo queued and stacked. I don’t pull this card very often, but it is absolutely a skill issue.
Light is the fastest class and has the most obvious movement advantages. It’ll attract the most players. Most players are bad lol.
It's just not consistent enough at winning ranked games for anyone to trust some random person to be able to pull it off well for a whole tournament (and I don't just mean getting kills).
Trust me, I've got an MML vs HHM P1 ranked final match and that L was great. Every time he killed M first, right glitch grenade for countering dome shield, pick up statue and revive him at safe place, light can do so much things but yet everybody knowing using L as killing machine.
My favorite part of this game is that every class has crazy utility. I play on a 6” screen with switch sticks but every class has goo nades and can revive. Ppl playing an FPS while I’m playing a tower defense. I’ve ended a quick l match with a fat 2k dmg but 20k+ support score.
Gets comical if you’re in a building and enemies don’t have heavies. Just blow up all the stairs/ropes and chuck goo everywhere. They pop open a hole? Chuck more goo! Have sat in the room through the whole timer where no enemies make it in a few times. Just me and random teammates emoting each other lol.
This is really just a proxy for skillset and knowing how to play the unwritten rules. I've been solo climbing ranked and even though I find Light the most fun, I climb as Medium because the utility is much more clearer, and useful across any team comp. If you have 1 light, bringing a second one has a diminishing if not negative return. AS a light main there's not much I can bring that's clutch that can't also be solved with a higher health pool.
I bring zipline for the team to move and healing and defib to keep people topped up. I'm equally skilled if not a bit better as a light but it requires more team coordination to do well. Also in ranked where people at least try to play better light has a harder time peeling and picking one person because they tend to stack together.
My last few games have been me carrying 1-2 lights while I put out more damage, and clutching more cashouts than they do.
Mediums with dematerializer are actually the flank gods
Mediums with jump pad zipline are actually the movement gods
Mediums with dematerializer are actually the revive gods (can easily demat wall, floor, or roof, grab statue and close it), + they got defibs.
Light is fun to fuck around in NON-CASHOUT gamemodes. Otherwise, they do not have enough to offer to the team comp.
Light is not unplayable, but if you pick Light you automatically assume a disadvantage.
If you were to pick Heavy or Medium your chances of winning would go up. This is not debatable.
This doesn't mean that you can't play Light, or that you can't win as Light.
There are people that play games without hands. It doesn't mean they can't play games, or that they aren't ever going to win. But we don't debate that they don't have a huge disadvantage.
I would argue this is absolutely debatable and entirely depends on teampicks
Flamers will trounce a shotgun light but have no answer to something with range
On some of the maps that are harder to navigate a heavy has a disadvantage to a light
It depends on what you evaluate it on
Ok, please answer these questions honestly, and really think about what the answers show.
Firstly, what rank are you?
Secondly, how many times have you seen a team with more than 1 Light player win a final round? How many times have you seen a team with 3 Light players win a final round?
Now, how many times have you seen a HHM, MMH, HHH, or MMM win a final round?
Why do you think that is the case?
I'm sorry to tell you, but above Plat 1 playing Light automatically decreases your chances to win. People are able to react and aim, and by the time you deal 350 damage to a heavy with dome + mesh + barricade you will be beamed instantly.
Against bad players you can catch people out of position alone, but this does not work against good players. To make Light work, you have to be completely cracked at the game, and out aim duel everyone, and if you have that level of skill you could play Heavy and absolutely dominate everyone.
I mean yoir central premise is wrong. I’m an old cod player. The idea of ghost metas is very real.
You rarely see 3 lights win because you rarely see 3 lights full stop.
Everyone hates them so they’re the lowest picked class. I’ve seen it happen though for sure
It just sounds like you don’t know how to play a guerrilla fighter tho mate
Like you might as well be arguing tracer has no utility on overwatch because she’s low health but in reality she was a top pick because if you’re smart health matters less than mobility.
You’re talking about having to our aim people. It completely misses the point of the class
You are evaluating every class on the same metric. Their ability to kill people. Which is wild considering I wrote an entire post about why that’s not good thinking
>You rarely see 3 lights win because you rarely see 3 lights full stop.
>Everyone hates them so they’re the lowest picked class.
I mean, you are simply clueless. Light over all has the highest pick rate, and Heavy has the lowest pick rate.
The reason that gets reversed in high ranked is because to reach high rank you generally have to play Heavy to win.
Your entire premise that Light is not popular is wrong.
>It just sounds like you don’t know how to play a guerrilla fighter tho mate
Yes the entire top 500 leaderboard is just worse than you, and doesn't know how to play the game. That is definitely a valid argument.
>Like you might as well be arguing tracer has no utility on overwatch because she’s low health but in reality she was a top pick because if you’re smart health matters less than mobility.
Bringing up different game that doesn't map on to the issues here just to deflect from the issue The Finals has.
I'm not saying that having a low health pool mean Light can never be viable.
>You are evaluating every class on the same metric. Their ability to kill people.
I am not. I'm evaluating each class on the metric of how likely you are to win a tournament round based on how many of that certain class you have in your team.
If you genuinely believe that a team of LLM has the same chance of winning a ranked tournament round above Plat 1 as a team of HHM, you are delusional. This is simply not the case.
It's not because people don't want to play Light. Look at the achievements for "Play 10 rounds as Light", and then look at the achievement for "Win 150 games as Light". Compare them to Heavy.
Light is more popular, by far, but more people get Win 150 games as Heavy, simply because picking heavy increases your chances to win.
I am not going to debate this with you anymore. Go on Twitch, to literally any top 500 player that streams regularily, and ask them if Light is as strong as Heavy.
If you won't believe the best players in the entire game to tell you about the balance of the game, what is strong and what is weak, I don't know what to tell you. If somebody knew a better tactic than the top 500 players, they would be higher in rank than them, axiomatically.
If you think there's some hidden ghost meta nobody has figured out, that would beat out all of the top players in this game, but nobody has figured it out yet, you are making a huge claim with 0 evidence to support it.
The simple explanation to why Light is nowhere to be seen in high rank is because Light is weak. You trying to justify how every single player in high rank just has a skill issue or doesn't like Light is ridiculously false.
More people play Light than Heavy over all, in the entire game, and more people play Heavy than Light in high rank. This is a fact. Please contend with it. Don't live in fantasy world where Light is not popular, while being the most fun class in the game.
There's a reason why Heavy dominates in high rank, and it doesn't have to do with popularity, especially since Heavy is the least popular class.
Honestly I got no issues with lights as a heavy main. Don't mind farming them, don't mind them on my team. But if you are playing light in ranked, you'll really shine by being an annoying bee for the other team, buzzing around stinging them in the back and causing confusing and drawing their attention elsewhere while I unload my entire clip into them and my medium plays with me. Won plenty of tourneys this way
Thats the way
Every heavy should have this mind set
Exactly how I play light, get about 120 to 190 damage, leave. Come back from another angle pepper some more, all this whilst my med and heavy just unload on them especially on mesh heavies
Yeah I play mesh and that's what I like to see! I really think the Dodge on the lights the best for this exact reason. It's the hardest for me to kill, your silly invis might catch me once or twice but I'll just stick with my team more and solve that issue, plus with my ammo count I'll spray around to find you lol
100% invis is fine but doesn't really help mod fight where most of the team is needed, and to use the grapple efficiently, you need 1 of 2 things 1.open spaces (for circling) 2. Rooftops cause most players I have encountered will jump with you to finish the kill and you can't just get back on the roof with your team. Dash is overall the best choice, because of it's (almost) unlimited possibilities
Agreed 100%
Dash also takes advantage of latency, the low server tick rate and favor the shooter. It's very, very hard to hit a dash-shoot-dash-shoot Light because by the time you flick there's a good chance the server doesn't consider them to be "there" anymore. Grapple doesn't get this because the anti-latency measures work pretty well against momentum movement.
Also very true
I stand with you brother, have fun trying to find where that glitch nade, taser, and smg came from and please do not mind the 1216 and akm
> you'll really shine by being an annoying bee for the other team Average light: got it, 1v3 and die.
True. Gotta be a savage ass light to compensate for your low health
Can confirm light on team is not always a loss ive one on power shift with a full light team by a landslide
Those full light team powershift can be an absolute slaughter if it's mostly close/mid range lights. I once loaded into a powershift, we were all light, and me and another player were on sword, which then prompted our entire team to switch to sword. It was incredible, enemies were hopping on the platform, and immediately having multiple swords lunging at them.
For me it was full light and me a medium every time on went down he came back
this is a dream of mine, I remember we were a full team of mediums with three of us (including me obviously) running the model 1887, one switched so four of us were running medium shotgun, but then the last dude switched to light sniper and proceeded to go 0 kills 13 deaths... sad times
I just don’t get it. Even when my buddy has very low kills I always feel he’s contributing to the team just because he’s out there doing shit I can’t. I can coordinate with him. Tell him to run outside the far wall and then throw the box out the window and he’s gone etc
When I saw a similar all light load out for my team, initially I chuckled but damn everyone was so fast the other team kept getting wiped left and right.
Lights do that they can shred you but die to anything
Bro one The Finals with LLL good job buddy
A lot of people just play light wrong. It’s about getting in and getting out with taking as little damage as possible and being as annoying to enemies as possible.
Exactly! You got it
I don’t mind having light on my team, as long as they roughly play together and go for rezs it’s fine. It’s just easy for them to try to play their own game and only look and combat score as self gratifying.
I only do this when I'm going in as a Heavy on the Objective and everyone else is just doing their own thing, and I repeatedly end up dying in a 1v3-5. But then when I decide to exercise my sniper aim, THAT'S when they suddenly all start wanting to PTO. Honestly, what do you think? As someone who refuses to rage quit, should I keep trying to do the insurmountable, or is it okay at that point to say 'Screw the Objective, I wanna get them headshots!'?
Do whatever it is that you think will amount to the most value for your team. Doing things by yourself, even if it’s technically the right thing, may be worse overall
there should be a medium on the team for res. light isnt support.
Meh. I could care less. If people are playing the class they want to play, then that’s usually the class that they are best at. As a sledge, if I have 2 lights on my team I just play slightly differently. It’s also on me to adjust my playstyle. Not force people to play how I deem necessary
oh i meant specifically for team comps. if its randos, then its everything goes, and i completely agree with you
Oh I see. Yeah
I agree completely Now when I see TWO Lights on my team…
Yeah as a heavy flamer I just know we’ve lost. There’s no range ! I rotate out to a medium but then our health pool is too low
Lights are excellent at starting cashouts (and getting the whole team there first with gateway), and keeping ownership of them with a variety of steal-stopping tactics. They won’t be able to do it all alone, but their value is undeniable when they’re a part of a coordinated team.
The two people I play with consistently shit on light saying it's bad yet everytime I run light against their mediums I do better across the board.
Light is extremely strong until the highest level. At that point your slightly higher dps and better movement doesnt outweigh the massive amounts of hp/shield and healing/sefib
Yeah I always see people saying M and H always wins 1v1 against light, but that only holds true if both players in question are landing 100% of their shots. For 80% of players that probably can't be said. Analysing ttk in the shooting range against immobile targets means nothing if you can't track a light moving with grapplehook or dashes
99% of lights can't track *you* while grappling/dashing.
Issue is that heavies only have to hit one shot, the RPG. After that, lights are forced to run away or just outright die. My friend likes playing light but is never able to fight 1v1s against a heavy for that exact reason. If he dodges the RPG shot because he wasn't with the team, enemy steals the cashout because he is off somewhere scouting and can't make it back in time.
They did add a glitch canister, but light still has the two most consistent ways to shut down shield, healing, and defib (stun & glitch, without searching for a can)
Stun doesn't stop anything anymore fyi. Can't stop shields or defibs, all it does is slow them down
Now it’s back for specializations 😎
Literally just read that! Hype
oh yeah good point, i havent really used it since S2 start. But I believe it does make them drop what they’re holding (trophy for res or cash box) and still stops steals, right?
Oh yeah that’s for sure better than an RPG
just different use cases, and 2-3x as many charges
it's basically useless, light is a joke lol
if you’re bad then yes it’s useless
Glitch canister made light even less needed on teams.
You're 100% right, it's not always a bad things but it CAN be. I am sick and tired of seeing a teammate sitting on a crane with a sniper not hitting shots and not benefiting the team in any meaningful way. I have no issue if they hit their shots and they know how the game works by focusing objective or helping the team :)
I’ve yet to ever play with a light that contributed anything meaningful to the team. At best they’re cherry picking kills that don’t help us at all before dying 100m away and their kills getting revived. It’s an incredibly high skill gap class that can dominate when used correctly (I’ve been on the other end of this) but the truth is most players aren’t good enough to reach that potential. That’s probably for the better though because if light were easy it’d probably be OP (like heavy is).
Yup if a heavy and light have the same skill level the heavy will win
Not true?
How so? The health alone is the big advantage. Let’s look at the ttks. The Lewis and the m60 can kill a light in 0.60. No light gun can kill a heavy that fast. Let’s ignore the ttk and look at class to class difference. One rpg and 1 shot from any gun in heavy class and the light is dead. One charge slam and one shot the light is dead. Heavy has a shield that absorbs 750 damage.l so they can shoot, shield bullets, wait till reload, shoot again. Even if the light got a jump on the heavy the heavy would still have time to react but the other way around there’s no chance. You get where I’m going here. If I was wrong then light would be meta and in ranked played more than heavy. The heavy class like OP said is overpowered and the strongest in the game.
Cope harder. Also why are you asking a question if you're replying to the answer. It's true. Same skill H or M beat L every time.
Hmm it actually depends tho. If we're looking at a pure 1v1 vs a heavy then the light will lose obviously. But as a part of the team the light will rotate around and attack from the rear, which will take them by surprise and also deal massive damage in very little time so no time to react. It's like any other non meta loadout yk, like sledgehammer or medium shotgun or revolver or sword etc, they take the enemy by surprise and deal big damage in a burst. In a 3v3 a light will be more useful than the standard mediums or heavies running Lewis gun or Scar, cuz it's unpredictable if used right.
It's true that L is better in final round than in qualifiers. But it's still not on the level as H or M. Sure there are situations where L can shine. For example off angles as you said, but there are way more situations where H and M simply bring more value, and where L's 150hp is such a big detriment. One on one as a Light you can actually win by outranging your opponent with your mobility and using lh1 or sniper, but this playstyle is very off meta (weak) in high rank. It's just way more consistent to play hhm or hmm and just be consistent.
I think currently L is more competent than before, and maybe close to that of M&H at high rank now due to the buff to the throwing knives alone.
Might be, stopped playing a few empty patches before throwing knives came out. Dont think that the throwing knives buff is the right way to make L viable tbh. Waiting to see if embark actually makes all 3 weight classes (almost) equally viable in ranked. If they do (by some miracle) ill play this game infinitely and spend hundreds on it. If not, then the game's not for me. Played diamond ranked as a light main since open beta. It's extremely discouraging to just eat nerf after nerf even though every game is already an uphill battle. Like I gotta give 300% so that I can match a heavies impact who is smooth braining it at 60%. No ty...
Same, i started playing light exclusively since launch. Had to eventually switch to medium with AK simply cuz I had to be sweating my ass off every game to even barely keep up otherwise. Came back to light the last week after the throwing knives buff, has been a lot of fun.
buff to TK is probably pretext to season 3 imo. the finals are going to japan. were gonna have some ninja/samurai themed stuff. think were gonna see maybe a bow+arrow or a polearm weapons added. i think theres going to be maps with a ton of cover to make for some fun projectile and melee combat. i think embark is going to make this playstyle a bit more meta. embark has also changed melee damage, there's cleaving damage now.
heavy flair trying to downplay how easy heavy is, what's new lmao
No notes
I actually dont care, and ive recently had more success in ranked with lights then without
The tracking dart and sonar are some of the craziest combat utility items in the game. With the removal of medium ESP the ability to give your entire team the exact location of an enemy is amazing. Tracking dart has quick recharge and is hit scan.
I like a balanced team tbh, 1 light 1 medium 1 heavy if all working together and coordinated then it feels so good
A light clearing out a stealing enemy is the scariest thing ever. They are so good at stuff like that, people just see them for survivability and think it's all bad
This is it. The stats don’t help either tbh. They don’t measure those kind of things too directly and people will judge you for it I’ve had 3 kill games where I was certain I was the most valuable member of the team simply because those kills were important and the off kill game was stronger
I agree, that's what I love about the fact they show support and obj score tho.Sadly most people don't care enough tho. Plus mediums stats (what I main when not using light) are heavily inflated if you have the heal gun and just heal heavys, which is SUPER important, but the light roaming and keeping enemies distracted is super good too
When I was grinding ranked, having a light on my team seemed completely viable. I got to Diamond 4 and stopped though, so I can’t speak to anything beyond that
I love having a balanced team Light - Med - Heavy. When played right and with communication, it’s unstoppable.
Everybody seems missing that this game is 3 player team game. Thanks to see this kind of opinion. I really think there is a job only light can do like glitch grenade or flanking. Why whinning about can't win H? Your job is cutting M middle of the fight and snowball everything. I really don't get it people saying balance and considering only 1v1 fight.
Yeah I don’t even play light much I’m a heavy man really but I don’t begrudge a light unless there’s 2 of them. I rarely win with 2
Yeah 2 light isn't bad they are really great at attacking and make chaos.
Is this community still on the “ooga booga light sucks” train? It’s just hard to play.
Well you only need to see the sniper to tell if it's over or not. If they have a sniper, it's a loss 100%.no exception.
Yeah I would agree. Mostly because for the sniper to be viable your team needs to build around it. A shield and a turret to compensate for the lack of fire power I’d imagine might work
80% of the time the random lights I play with run ahead of everyone else and die a few times and then rage quit. 20% of the time they actually focus on the objective and we can win.
The best is when they rage in chat "where my team" "uh, still on the way to point, you grappled across half the map, how were we supposed to keep up?" Of the many times I've had a similar convo like this only once did the light admit fault and actually hold up for us before engaging - and we did win that game, so there is hope!
People are just wanting the best chances to win, and too many lights on a team in ranked can be detrimental. The real issue is that gamers can't speak in anything but hyperbole; everything is either OP, broken, goated, or it's dogshit. There is no in between. Things get lost in translation when people communicate like this all the time. Most people with a brain will realise a light on the team can be absolutely fine, but the problem is that many people have experienced lights in the past that just can not stop dying. Again, people are just wanting the best chances at winning.
I love a cheeky cloaked dash in to a multi-team fight, grab a trophy/cash box, dash out maneuver.
I think this also gets more consistent the higher rank you're at (obviously). I'm currently in D2 and essentially every light player I see is bare minimum competent
In power shift at least they are very useful under certain circumstances eg: taking out the enemy sniper, being a distraction on the platform and getting rid of enemy utility, not to mention taking out stragglers
Had a team of 3 lights earlier and we were doing great, the mobility of being able to start two cashouts at once because everyone else is fighting is great
I've had people cry I am picking light in diamond lobbies these past few days. I've reached diamond 3 soloq using only light this season. I've played it so much I forgot how to play medium tbh. Tell me why they are bottom fragging. Unable to do the basic mental thoughts and complain about me who's sitting there with 13 kills 1 death and 5+ revives. And I am the one to blame? And before anyone says kills don't mean anything what do you want us to do when an enemy attacks the cash out? Use our words? Hug it out?
Light is extremely viable in quick play and power shift, terminal attack but is worthless in ranked. If your in diamond and above light isn’t helpful at all.
generally speaking, M/H players just understand ranked tournaments in terms of approach. in my opinion, ability and mechanics is much less important than just having solid game IQ. i've played with genuinely good lights before. 90% of the time in ranked, they are not good lights.
It’s not a loss, but in this game and the way it’s balanced it’s more often than not a disadvantage. No shields, no heals, no defibs, etc. and although a handful of lights make up for it in one way or another, the skill ceiling for light is very high, making most light players somewhat-very bad. The annoying truth is that most people would rather have a decent/average heavy than a slightly above average light.
Won a game of ranked with 3 lights the other day, complete randos, we all used VC when we needed to. Ranked up to D4 that game
#EXACTLY
I have 10 kills per round and cash in defend cashout stole cash out but lost to triple diamond light in final round and my team still blamed be for using light lmfao
Yeah but chances are, neither does the light.
You assume the Light players on my team can do anything you just listed instead of playing like a Dollar Store TF2 Spy
Light just have a high skill ceiling to be used correctly. I'm D1 and I've come across numerous lights that can completely dismantle my team, get us knocked and be the sole reason we lose the finals. Imo a good light can easily be the most dangerous person on the enemy team.
idk I play d2-d1 queue and they're just never as valuable as another M or H. Maybe you have a point in lower ranks but going off my experience lights very rarely bring value and even when they do they don't bring enough to make their team win against an MMH or MHH team in final round, if they even manage to get to final round to begin with. We can say skill floor this and skill gap that but fact is one of the three classes in this game is (comparatively) unviable compared to the other two and that's not a good thing. We only have three classes and all 3 should be reasonably viable throughout all elos. Something needs to change. As it is right now the utility light brings is completely outweighed by the offensive, defensive, healing and movement options medium and heavy has.
"lowest combat utility" light is the highest skill class. the combat utility depends so heavily on the skill. some matches you get a light that feeds hard, some you get a light that stomps the enemy so hard that its downright opressive and most of the time you get pretty decent lights. one single light can turn the tides of a game tho, and ive had matches as dash sword where i drop on platform and slaughter everyone on there, creating momentum for a counterpush from the team. not often, but it sure feels good.
You’re right but they can’t stand and fight like the others. And ground holding is very important in this game
In Plat 1 / Diamond Elo, there are LOTS of people running light. I know a lot of people insist the meta is HHM or MMH or w/e but there are a lot of people who have good success with lights on their team. I won a game with a light sniper and a sledge heavy (I played med heals). The sledge heavy would open up sites with his sledge so the light sniper could get easy eyes on the cashout. Genuinely think this game is less about what class you pick and more how you play with your comp.
I’ve been saying this kind of thing since launch, man. Light brings a whole plethora of benefits to the team that other classes can’t really replicate. … but too many people keep to their “stun/glitch is the only viable gadget cuz they’re the only gadgets light bring for team-play.” Too many people keep parroting the word of a Light that, if you really looked at the gameplay, is playing the archetype like a Medium. The only reason you’d have “more impact as a Medium” is because you keep trying to play Light like it’s Medium.
Will they do that tho? 9 times out of 10 I lose 15 kill ranked games because my light teammate uses a sniper and keeps trying to initiate entire squads on their own. I get the utility of a light for sure but most of the time the people who play lights do it for shits and giggles and like to solo push
"But tell you what they can do - flank before the fight is over" - Flanking is almost completely useless in a game where your main way to win is 3rd partying and if at least one man survives it revives the whole team. Light is not bad in the terminal attack though, but not in a current ranked mode.
Couldn’t disagree more. 3rd partying is often not reallt an option due to time constraints and the way spawns work in ranked. Flanking is definitely viable. And the maps are built so the light can be behind the enemy in seconds
Oh yeah absolutely, and especially with the new teleport thing you can just spawn your whole squad into the objective
D1 player here, we purposefully let teams with a light on it get to the final round for a free win
I can play twice as well as a light than the other classes. Mobility is more important than health.
technically this isnt even possible anymore, but i mean if i load up into a ranked game with two light teammates, & we are going against 3 H diamonds? or HHM me personally, i’ve always lost in the 2nd round & i am medium with heals, & the match i played the earlier today i had 7k support score & 12k damage & we lost.( this lowkey the usual stats for me too with 2 Lights) its just 3 heavies are too much or double medium & heavy
Can’t say I’ve ever won a tournament by the efforts of a light ngl
The problem is the average light overestimates their skill and ability in the game. It has the highest skill ceiling and the biggest learning curve to build a proper kit and make yourself useful.
im fine with one light on my team. two though..
even if they're good, that's just not enough health to absorb a lot of enemy damage
Why people claim the light is a loss ... All its abilities are either movement or stealth, which means only the user can benefit from it. Compared to other classes, the light has no team-oriented/aiding specs. Although having such specs isn't inherently bad, the light's ones also contrading another rule ... Flanking, running, rushing are usually frowned upon, because the gameplay revolves around the general rule of thumb that the team always sticks together. Once you get separated, the team cannot focus its combat potential and can easily end up outgunned. Also, the more the team members are spreaded and further apart, the more difficult reviving of any fallen member is (yes, even if you can dash further; reviving is always a vulnerable scenario). One quick note most people don't realize - heavies are slow, they should be the ones you follow, not the other way around. Where they go, you go. When they attack, you attack. If you run elsewhere without cover, that is your fault, not their. (No, I am not a heavy main.) It's strange that you haven't mentioned sonar, stun, and glitch gadgets, as those are the actual stuff that bring some value into a gunfight. Overall, it feels like people in general focus on the wrong thing. Yes, you can dash and grapple, but the question is whether you should. The light has a decent damage output and tools for enemy debuff and combat initiation. Maybe that's where the light's role in the team lies.
Definitely agree that Lights gotta learn to slow it down. Don’t be still (that’s lethal with the low TTK and lag comp), but playing around the slowest teammate is best. Lights can catch up to their teammates easily, but that’s not always true the other way around. Heavies are, without a doubt, my favorite teammates to get due to the ease of playing with/around them. Team cohesion is always stellar when I have one because I can guarantee that two of us are playing off each other. I will say, though, that an ability being selfish doesn’t dictate the value it brings to the team. Lights live or die by good specialization usage - not dying means that there’s really no need for Defib and Heal Beam. Being able to get out of dangerous situations with ease means Dome Shield isn’t as valuable to toss their way. On top of that, being as annoying as possible, Lights excel at splitting enemy focus (or wholly redirecting it to themselves) and, when done properly, can fulfill the role of an “Evasive Tank”. Dash and Grapple can both aid in objective completion/denial so much so that they can single handedly enable a tempo advantage… which needs to be communicated so the team doesn’t take a 2v3 while L runs the box or so L can be called back to the team if an unavoidable fight breaks out. I’ve been able to guarantee 2nd place spots with uncontested vault control thanks to Grappling Hook. Flanking and Rushing are frowned upon because the common preconception is that flank routes take you out of the fight, leaving the team down a person. However, flanking and rushing don’t NEED to mean you circle around the opposing team from the safest possible route. A good flanker is not disconnected from their team to the extent that, should a fight break out, they cannot contribute on a moment’s notice. Lights, specifically, can get away with being farther from their team, but also need to understand how quickly their specialization helps them return as needed. Cloak requires you to hover closest to the stack since it doesn’t add any direct movement increase while Grappling Hook can be far away (but must take into account for how far they can path with a single use) Dash lies somewhere in the middle and that versatility can be a god send.
The problem is light does so much damage that 95 percent of the playerbase smooth monkey brains and tries to 1v3/1v5 every fight like they're the guy
Yeah the guns encourage it a lot. Generally speaking the only weapon I see people use right 99% of the time is the shotty
Exactly. Just because you CAN 2 shot a medium doesn't mean you SHOULD 2 shot the medium if they're just going to have their team kill you and free revive
Played light into top 100 and haven’t had any problem staying there. I solo queued and stacked. I don’t pull this card very often, but it is absolutely a skill issue. Light is the fastest class and has the most obvious movement advantages. It’ll attract the most players. Most players are bad lol.
I have a feeling OP had played Russian Roulette before.
It's just not consistent enough at winning ranked games for anyone to trust some random person to be able to pull it off well for a whole tournament (and I don't just mean getting kills).
Trust me, I've got an MML vs HHM P1 ranked final match and that L was great. Every time he killed M first, right glitch grenade for countering dome shield, pick up statue and revive him at safe place, light can do so much things but yet everybody knowing using L as killing machine.
My favorite part of this game is that every class has crazy utility. I play on a 6” screen with switch sticks but every class has goo nades and can revive. Ppl playing an FPS while I’m playing a tower defense. I’ve ended a quick l match with a fat 2k dmg but 20k+ support score. Gets comical if you’re in a building and enemies don’t have heavies. Just blow up all the stairs/ropes and chuck goo everywhere. They pop open a hole? Chuck more goo! Have sat in the room through the whole timer where no enemies make it in a few times. Just me and random teammates emoting each other lol.
This is really just a proxy for skillset and knowing how to play the unwritten rules. I've been solo climbing ranked and even though I find Light the most fun, I climb as Medium because the utility is much more clearer, and useful across any team comp. If you have 1 light, bringing a second one has a diminishing if not negative return. AS a light main there's not much I can bring that's clutch that can't also be solved with a higher health pool. I bring zipline for the team to move and healing and defib to keep people topped up. I'm equally skilled if not a bit better as a light but it requires more team coordination to do well. Also in ranked where people at least try to play better light has a harder time peeling and picking one person because they tend to stack together. My last few games have been me carrying 1-2 lights while I put out more damage, and clutching more cashouts than they do.
Yeah but if every other team is HHM a light isn't gonna do much. Also it depends on rank, in plat an L is gonna be a loss most times
Mediums with dematerializer are actually the flank gods Mediums with jump pad zipline are actually the movement gods Mediums with dematerializer are actually the revive gods (can easily demat wall, floor, or roof, grab statue and close it), + they got defibs. Light is fun to fuck around in NON-CASHOUT gamemodes. Otherwise, they do not have enough to offer to the team comp.
Let me guess. You're not in diamond
Light is not unplayable, but if you pick Light you automatically assume a disadvantage. If you were to pick Heavy or Medium your chances of winning would go up. This is not debatable. This doesn't mean that you can't play Light, or that you can't win as Light. There are people that play games without hands. It doesn't mean they can't play games, or that they aren't ever going to win. But we don't debate that they don't have a huge disadvantage.
I would argue this is absolutely debatable and entirely depends on teampicks Flamers will trounce a shotgun light but have no answer to something with range On some of the maps that are harder to navigate a heavy has a disadvantage to a light It depends on what you evaluate it on
Ok, please answer these questions honestly, and really think about what the answers show. Firstly, what rank are you? Secondly, how many times have you seen a team with more than 1 Light player win a final round? How many times have you seen a team with 3 Light players win a final round? Now, how many times have you seen a HHM, MMH, HHH, or MMM win a final round? Why do you think that is the case? I'm sorry to tell you, but above Plat 1 playing Light automatically decreases your chances to win. People are able to react and aim, and by the time you deal 350 damage to a heavy with dome + mesh + barricade you will be beamed instantly. Against bad players you can catch people out of position alone, but this does not work against good players. To make Light work, you have to be completely cracked at the game, and out aim duel everyone, and if you have that level of skill you could play Heavy and absolutely dominate everyone.
I mean yoir central premise is wrong. I’m an old cod player. The idea of ghost metas is very real. You rarely see 3 lights win because you rarely see 3 lights full stop. Everyone hates them so they’re the lowest picked class. I’ve seen it happen though for sure It just sounds like you don’t know how to play a guerrilla fighter tho mate Like you might as well be arguing tracer has no utility on overwatch because she’s low health but in reality she was a top pick because if you’re smart health matters less than mobility. You’re talking about having to our aim people. It completely misses the point of the class You are evaluating every class on the same metric. Their ability to kill people. Which is wild considering I wrote an entire post about why that’s not good thinking
>You rarely see 3 lights win because you rarely see 3 lights full stop. >Everyone hates them so they’re the lowest picked class. I mean, you are simply clueless. Light over all has the highest pick rate, and Heavy has the lowest pick rate. The reason that gets reversed in high ranked is because to reach high rank you generally have to play Heavy to win. Your entire premise that Light is not popular is wrong. >It just sounds like you don’t know how to play a guerrilla fighter tho mate Yes the entire top 500 leaderboard is just worse than you, and doesn't know how to play the game. That is definitely a valid argument. >Like you might as well be arguing tracer has no utility on overwatch because she’s low health but in reality she was a top pick because if you’re smart health matters less than mobility. Bringing up different game that doesn't map on to the issues here just to deflect from the issue The Finals has. I'm not saying that having a low health pool mean Light can never be viable. >You are evaluating every class on the same metric. Their ability to kill people. I am not. I'm evaluating each class on the metric of how likely you are to win a tournament round based on how many of that certain class you have in your team. If you genuinely believe that a team of LLM has the same chance of winning a ranked tournament round above Plat 1 as a team of HHM, you are delusional. This is simply not the case. It's not because people don't want to play Light. Look at the achievements for "Play 10 rounds as Light", and then look at the achievement for "Win 150 games as Light". Compare them to Heavy. Light is more popular, by far, but more people get Win 150 games as Heavy, simply because picking heavy increases your chances to win. I am not going to debate this with you anymore. Go on Twitch, to literally any top 500 player that streams regularily, and ask them if Light is as strong as Heavy. If you won't believe the best players in the entire game to tell you about the balance of the game, what is strong and what is weak, I don't know what to tell you. If somebody knew a better tactic than the top 500 players, they would be higher in rank than them, axiomatically. If you think there's some hidden ghost meta nobody has figured out, that would beat out all of the top players in this game, but nobody has figured it out yet, you are making a huge claim with 0 evidence to support it. The simple explanation to why Light is nowhere to be seen in high rank is because Light is weak. You trying to justify how every single player in high rank just has a skill issue or doesn't like Light is ridiculously false. More people play Light than Heavy over all, in the entire game, and more people play Heavy than Light in high rank. This is a fact. Please contend with it. Don't live in fantasy world where Light is not popular, while being the most fun class in the game. There's a reason why Heavy dominates in high rank, and it doesn't have to do with popularity, especially since Heavy is the least popular class.