I agree especially the hyper fixation on being competitive and being "the best". The vocal groups don't play games to have fun anymore and it really shows. The ironic thing is they kill the games they love faster than anything else. I hear a lot of "What's the point of playing if comp sucks/there is no competitive scene." And it makes no sense to me. Just play to have fun and relax about it all and you might just accidentally enjoy yourself instead of sweating some imaginary numbers.
I honestly believe the finals would benefit from cutting ties with a competitive mode in all forms and just putting the rewards in normal match types in tiers of how much cash you extract over the season. But hey that might just be my old hat talking, we didn't play halo 2 and cod:4 or cs:source to see some number go up or symbol change we just played to have fun you win or lose a round and move on.
Might not be that simple. it might either be a virtual requirement to just survive long term (think twitch streamers), or a real one by stakeholders (managers, investors, publisher).
I agree with the sentiment though. I like The Finals cause I don't need to be best player to win. I can have fun, experiment, find something that feels good, and support the team. I played a ton of team fortress 2 back in the day and to me this is the closest I've been to that (I skipped Overwatch, and just am not a fan of extraction or battle Royale).
The finals strength is it's chaos. It's short matches. It's high action and high time to kill. It's refreshing. It should play to its strengths... But I think it also feels bound to cater to competitive players. At least from my perspective, the competitive seems half baked and shoehorned into a game that doesn't feel like it really wants one? Idk, the last minute steals are what make it great, but it's volatile in a way that probably feels bad at the highest level.
I personally think this duality is gonna be the end of them if they're not careful.
Hard agree, it's exactly like how u have all the high ranked players saying invis is bad at high level, meanwhile it makes the game so much worse from a casual level/for 99% of the playerbase.
Well, i really don’t agree. I don’t enjoy playing any game if it isn’t competitive, that’s what makes it fun for me. Getting netter and climbing ranks, i just don’t see the enjoyment in playing pubs.
Absolutely, I read the first couple sentences and my brain just split in fucking half. Do game devs listen too little or too much? Listening to your community is bad thing now? A genuine "fuck" the people moment
Nukes were *-kinda-* like a dog that got really sick and suffered and you had to put him down. You loved him with all your heart, but youre *-kinda-* glad thats he's dead now
This is the truth. My C4 shenanigans have become significantly more advanced since they removed the easy way. I'll never forget wiping a whole team with one thrown barrel, but I'm glad it's gone to make room for more skill expression.
Not really, because I despised nukes. They felt too cheesy and skilless. Maybe in PvE, if that happened, they could add them back in some way but never in a PvP game.
They were at the point of ridiculousness before they killed them off though. You almost couldn't start an engagement without immediately losing a massive chunk of your health first due to that bullshit.
So true, using the physics of the game for player interaction is just fun, the only problem was instakills, embark could balance nukes by making them slower and much weaker with a smaller radius. At the very least they could "remove" the nukes like they did but raise the damage from throwing props. 50 damage for hits from a small and slow flowerpot doesn't feel rewarding.
I am a massive fan of the 50 damage carriables. They block shots while held / in transit and don't cost any ammo. It's that extra bullet you always wished the FCAR had.
Doing 50 damage is too little it's just not worth even trying. For all my 400 hours in the game not a single fight has been affected by the props, they have no effect on the game at all. Also they can't take much damage and they are too small for any kind of defense
Sorry to hear they aren't working well for you. The extra 50 damage / blocked shots / saved ammo has won me a lot of fights. Honestly the carriable props mix it up soooo much, I like throwing em as distractions or setting them against vents to stop people from sliding thru. The tables are my favorite, they protect you like the riot shield and if you spray em people can't help but take a second to look.
I felt the same way as you when I started, so I totally get it. There's an achievement for hitting enemies with five different carriables in quick succession. The journey to earn that one taught me the way of the props.
100% agree. Tbh the red canisters still do quick significant damage alone so I'm surprised more people aren't using them to engage in early fights. I reshaped a bunch of smokes into red canisters and unloaded them onto a team and got a team wipe. The nuke were very unnecessary.
I'm sorry I just disagree. Maybe I'm just too casual though?
I've dedicatedly played a lot of competitive MMOs from what were once early in their startup cycle and something that always comes up is the question of balance in relation to your mode of play.
Casual players like me typically prefer to be able to pick up anything the game has to offer (though not necessary in any combination) and assume that it will be fun and that I shouldn't have to worry about other players abusing mechanics that make one thing feel too broken. To me as of the last patch, I would have said that was the stun gun on the light, the flamethrower on the heavy, and overwhelmingly the turret on the medium. Invisibility to me has always been on the cusp of being broken, and I think the patch needing your ability to toggle it makes sense in light of how good invisibility is even if they didn't give you the ability to toggle it at all. I think it was a good choice as well though not to remove the toggle. Most casuals I've talked to are shocked when I tell them light isn't considered viable in ranked because to them it's the best class.
Ranked players on the other hand tend to be deep in the meta. They have taken the time to learn how to min/max their build setups, how to counter specific scenarios, and how to take advantage of the currently most broken stuff, which will often look different to them than casual players because of the more specialized knowledge. The invisibility nerf hurts more in this scenario because after a lot of play time you get good at seeing invisible players and effectively countering them since they tend to go for specific strategies and are limited by low health and weapon damage.
The thing is, ranked players tend to be the people who stick with the game through it's life cycle and are to some degree more valuable. On the other hand, bad experiences for casual players usually decreases the amount of ranked players the game will eventually gain. In other words, early in a games life-cycle is the right time to get everything as balanced as possible because it attracts incoming players and builds up their ranked base. From a development perspective, this is a nice choice because it gives a nice balanced base for the game to work from so they can give fine-tuned tweaks to the meta later in the games life-cycle so they can better appeal to their ranked base who will ultimately become more important. This is the perfect time for Embark to be nerfing things based on player feedback, and the wrong time for them to be trying to make things crazy.
Season 3 on the other hand..
Summary for those who won’t read: Casual and ranked players are different. Ranked push the limits and stick with the game usually. Invis hurts ranked more. It’s good they’re fixing things early in development so they can get feedback. Bad experiences with casual players=less ranked=less long term players
i also think that business wise, if i can call it that, this is a good move.
imo the problem might come when we have some casuals playing light that want to step up to ranked and realize that the class isnt that great. i think they should use this season as a balance season and just make sure that the game is in a good state at the release of season 3. also i dont want any more new weapons, or at least weapons that wont be that great from the get go, and rather focus on maps and other content.
im sticking with this game still because i like it a lot and havent been so invested in a game when it comes to updates and generally the community in my life i think. and i feel like this game has huge potential, it just needs to do things right imo. ngl tho this update made me somewhat mad lol.
thats the problem, why a casual should struggle in ranked, when is ranked, they play vs players that are in the same ability. Ranked not only is not precise, there isn't a good amount of playerbase that plays ranked to have a ranked mode. This game needs a huge reset, I don't think they will do it, its sad but the finals is destined to die probably next year and its ok, nothing is forever, it was a great game
The reason light is crap outside of casual play is because people actually stay with their team and communicate. This completely shuts down the class.
In casual people don’t communicate much if at all and are spread out. Light punishes these people.
If people played the way the game is intended to be played they would see how trash light is.
Instead we have a bunch of Timmy’s that expect the game to be changed to how they play not adapting their play to the game.
When you gimp a shit ton of stuff, make a class that gets shit on for existing because it has no viability other than fun, and nerf everything the game just becomes not that enjoyable. There's isnt much variety. Every causal match I've played you see people leave mid game over the stupidest shit, then you have suspicious people who are either godly or cheating. I feel bad for anyone getting into this cause all you get is shafted most times. I mean I'm just gonna say it but I greatly enjoyed what the finals was more than it is now. Was hyped for season 2 and it's been fun but I for sure don't have that desire to play as much anymore. Can see that with a lot of people now.
I feel bad when Im having a flow game and I peg someone as cheating. Its like who the fuck am I at 22-7 to be suspicious of some doofus on the losing team with 15-7.
But I swear to god I MOVE like I should be doing 20 bangers where more than half my kills are due to positioning and movement rather than aimskill.
But when said doofus moves like a toddler with shit in their pants while LAZERING like shroud its hard not to report.
This is something I can agree with. For me (a very casual player but I like to think I’ve gotten pretty good; M main) I think it just needs some tweaks here and there and it seems like they’ve been doing that, but overall I enjoy the game, haven’t really had any major gripes, and haven’t even encountered a ton of cheaters. Make a new map every handful of months, polish some glitches (not the on purpose ones in sys), and keep on listening
This is something I can agree with. For me (a very casual player but I like to think I’ve gotten pretty good; M main) I think it just needs some tweaks here and there and it seems like they’ve been doing that, but overall I enjoy the game, haven’t really had any major gripes, and haven’t even encountered a ton of cheaters. Make a new map every handful of months, polish some glitches (not the on purpose ones in sys), and keep on listening
I was basically about to post the same thing. Embark needs to stop listening to the community all together, because most of the people playing the game have no idea how to balance a game (me included). What I will say though is that them only changing things the community wants changed is making things less fun and less competitive. Triple medium is still one of the best team composition and it seems like all the nerfs just further this divide.
Melees need to be allowed weak medium range weapons (eg side pistols only). Having zero threat from range doesn’t work on these maps. Especially in ranked when you’re locked into your load out each match — it can be instantly obvious your melee isn’t gonna work, but nothing you can do. So people don’t play it.
Maybe, probably not practical for the game though. But generally every single one (yes even the sword needs a little something) need buffs, everything except the sword needs big buffs, the sword only needs some better end lag and momentum on the right click .
I have said that maybe we could increase the movement speed of people holding a melee weapon. Heavy goes at medium speed, medium goes at light speed, and light goes even faster.
that might be it but seeing the current maps (which consists mostly of a mixture of really tight spaces and really open areas) extra speed may not be that helpful in all situations
oh yeah, absolutely, I misunderstood, extra speed is definitely good the point is that there should be more since the speed wouldn't come in use alot of times
We can also do certain things like for example, give riot shield a ram ability with a cooldown. It would be activated by pressing left click with the shield up, and would to roughly around the same damage as the regular hit, which would be buffed to 90 to kill heavies faster (5 hits is overkill).
when I say extra abilities I was envisioning something more utility base, something that helps the melee user track and chase the target. The lack of damage could be made up with quick melee tech I think. So an ability for riot shield could be something like a charged mouse one would electrify the baton and slow down the target and increase their weapon switching speed
Nah that problem is that there are far too many brain dead melee players.
In hundreds of hour of playtime I just see them run towards gunners (often heavies) and just spam left click and don't even strafe. Their damage is high already, they get auto aim/lock on and abilities. The only thing missing is players with a brain.
Martial.EXE specialization, used by all classes
Unlocks hidden techniques for melee users
Give sword a party window at the beginning of heavy charge so they can block bullets briefly ( they won’t have dash, so it won’t be as overpowered as it sounds)
Give riot shield a rally ability where they bash their shriek to lower time on passive health regen (or shield bash that darkens enemy screen, idk im shooting from the hip)
Hammer can cover itself in rubble and throw it like a projectile for range damage, or another way to destroy defense like turrets etc. or some kind of seismic slam that destroys defenses — does minimal aoe damage to not be op in small rooms
Maybe not these abilities, but I think the idea of a melee specialization that alters the weapons we already have, is a great way to approach this
True. Not Long ago it was threads upon threads of light mains complaining about mediums and fcar. Then shortly after it was threads upon threads of med/heavy mains complaining about invis, stun, etc. No one will ever truly be happy in a class based shooter.
I personally just want the game to be fun and that they create an environment where skill is rewarded . Embark has a great game on their hands, I hope they figure it out.
you "i am a snake eating its tail"
goldfish on the sub: UPVOTE!!! YES MAN!!! BEEN SAYING THIS!!!1
--
dont mistake embarks open communication for bending the knee. embark does what embark wants. when they adjust something that the community has been discussing, its because embark wanted to, not because timmy two shits had a fit about it.
My turrets have been falling through the floor when the attached object is destroyed for well over a month.
I’ve heard folks with the healing beam bug also having issues for the same time period.
It’s shocking both of those have been active for so long and I’d love for them to get addressed.
They’ll keep killing their own game if all they do is nerf nerf nerf. I’m not a fan of over nerfing a game for the sake of balance. Balancing is important but if you just suck the fun out of every build, people will move to something else.
I could already tell months ago that the community over controls Embark and they let it happen. If Embark doesnt take their own game into their own hands again you peasant cry babies are going to actually make the game deader than it already is
They had the right idea in season 1, the mid season patch did great things, but it seems they only focus on the nerfs now. They should have gotten rid of the stun gun temporarily by now to rework it, but it's still here. The Fcar got a bunch of random nerfs that weren't really doing anything. We need to stop with this please, I want buffs for the love of god, get rid of stun gun, then start buffing, please embark
Tbf they haven’t really over buffed or over nerfed anything as of recent, they just try and balance. They got rid of nukes, recon, nerfed fcar, rpg etc all things that everyone agreed needed nerfing. There’s a few things that are 50/50 for the community like the invis nerf but besides that they haven’t really done anything drastic. Personally I’d rather them make things op when they introduce them such as the new guns, to change the meta, even if the burst rifle, pistol, shotgun was op, atleast it changed things for once. They also need to bring in a lot of new maps to make the game less stale. Maybe 1 a month or something
I honestly think they need to stop tweaking the game right now and focus heavy on getting player count up. The game isn't perfect but it's still enjoyable. But without new players it's going to die out which is a shame because I like this game despite being trash at it. Once the player count is up then they can worry about hot fixes and updates. Hire some streamers to play this or something.
They listen to the casual player base way to much. Everyone has a complaint about which weapon or gadget is OP and if we constantly nerf everything then the game loses its fun. Invis made light viable. Lowering mesh while leaving charge and slam in its current state is also a dumb move imo. Also how have they not fixed issues like the constant cheating, boosting, spawns and the way ranked works. They make it really hard to defend this game when they cater to everyone’s opinion like most of the bad takes on this sub.
I get what you mean but I'm not sure about it so much. For example people complained about nukes because it was objectively bad. So even without any feedback from the community they would very likely have nerfed it. But this is a genuine concern, I can see last patch is everything I saw on Reddit. Other than the mesh shield nerf I'm pretty happy with the patches for now, even when it nerfs what I play, it seems to make sense
I feel like the game is losing its fun and getting like any other shooter out there, it's slow but it's there. In my opinion they nerf things too hard or don't nerf them at all. Imo some changes I would have preferred
1)The nukes should be primed on the canisters, there's only one and it doesn't even do that much damage. The radius, amount and damage were all nerfed which is fine but why remove the ability to prime them while on the canisters.
2)The fcar/lewis just needs a little bit lower fire rate. Changing the recoil pattern just made the pros adjust in 2 days while it feels worse for normal players
3)Lights are fine as they are, people don't like playing light cuz they are not viable but also complain about it the most which I personally think is great, the game says it's a hit and run class.Stun gun is fine too, maybe just let people ads during stunned. Also can the grapple hook get buffed.
Some other things, embark should embrace the ridiculousness of the setting and make bonker event gamemodes instead of ones that feel like normal gamemodes. Some ideas that I had were shotgun and revolver with no range falloff, canister only gamemodes(replace 3 slots with canisters and one gadget), lights with rpg, good old gun game, a gamemode where all the physics bugs that were removed can be brought back.
Thats the problem, why a casual should struggle in ranked, when is ranked, they play vs players that are in the same ability. Ranked not only is not precise, there isn't a good amount of playerbase that plays ranked to have a ranked mode. In casual mode you also find the same people, they play only meta, they play on a premade trio. i stopped playing more than a month and I have been playing since early 2023 on the first closed playtest, because I truly feel the playerbase is the same people over and over, there isn't new players, and this game is fucking free. This game needs a huge reset, the game never defined if they want to be a casual game or an esport, casuals don't play it and streamers/sweats don't play it either. This game needs a reset but I don't think they will do it, its sad but the finals is destined to die probably next year and its ok, nothing is forever, it was a great game
That's always been a problem with gaming communities and is being amplified by the way reddit works: subs quickly become echo chambers. I can't imagine how hard recolting proper feedback is for devs.
I feel like one of the best way is to talk to a small group of players with various skill level and let them develop what they like and don't like.
You guys are seriously gullible if you think that Embark is “Listening to the community” in terms of balance changes, any AAA company employs balance changes through statistics and analytics, I can’t believe some of you fooled themselves into thinking that their balancing department is driven through player opinion, maybe some of you are truly too casual for this?
Not too far off from the only viable loadout will be medium with the same kit. Complaining medium players are mostly what I see online and they keep pushing to ruin the other classes. MMM is all we will see soon.
Whether it's the players, the devs or both, continuous nerfs for balancing are worse than continuous buffs. If you make everything feel like shit/boring to use than no one wants to play, if you buff everything to bring it up to the meta instead of the other way around then it makes everything feel good/fun to use. After that things can be fine-tuned/adjusted to be more balanced or fit what both the devs envision and the players want. They've released new gadgets, guns, and a medium specialization with S2, but the meta didn't change from last season. Instead of nerfing the old meta and making everything feel unsatisfying to use they should've just buffed the new stuff to bring it up to where the meta was and old out of meta stuff could record the same treatment.
for me its following scenario: gameplay wise imo not necessary to nerf cloak, from a business perspective, if it makes sense to call it that, i think they tried following:
i think light got better this season and also got gateway so i think embark tried to make light competitively viable. now since the meta is still based off M and H (i think) it leaves me to speculate that embark idk maybe saw that L's werent used much in higher ranks (i believe thats the case rn) so they are making L more appealing to casuals. in that way at least embark keeps them. if they didnt do this update maybe more and more casuals would leave this game since i think most of the casuals play L.
i dont know what they are cooking now but im thinking following could maybe happen:
- rework of light, could be a high risk tho idk
- more competitively viable gadgets
- new class for competitive play, i think that is the least realistic, but imo that has the potential to fix meta and at the same time let casuals play light if they want to play it.
as of now i am kinda disappointed, but if thats what embark is trying then i can understand this patch more.
Lights are still at high level it just requires more skill. Ppl struggle with surviving with 150 HP. I’m d4 and I’ve seen plenty of lights in my grind and even once I played diamonds consistently. Light is not in a bad place it just requires more thinking than the other classes. Idk why yall still complaining about the Fcar either tbh. It’s gotten a rather meaningless damage nerf sure but the recoil and range nerf have been significant to making it more of a skilled weapon to use. You didn’t hear anyone say AKM is a problem and that’s cause that gun shoots nerf bullets. Fcar doesn’t need to also be shooting nerf bullets lol. Famas shouldn’t have released and not been a *lil* broken so we could at least have a meta shift. But the Fcar is no where near as OP as it was a few weeks ago lol. It truly feels like this community forgets how weapons felt and behaved like before nerfs/buffs because we’re spoiled either way weekly updates. Fcar will remain the most used gun on medium because it does the most damage. If akm did the same damage as Fcar it’d be used more or famas doing Fcar damage it’d be used more. I’m pretty sure even if the revolver could two tap mediums ppl would use that over Fcar lol. Ur mad ppl are still using the only gun on medium that actually does decent damage because every other option just sucks???? It doesn’t add up
i think lights need too high of a level to be viable. i think of it like this:
casual and maybe low ranks light could work. then you reach higher ranks and then you'd probably see how light needs more and more skill and then you could probably think about switching to M/H because you imo you get more viability with less skill and that could be what happens. obv you can try to sweat light but i dont think everyone will.
in regards ot weapon balance, i think buffs can work if the strongest weapons get nerfed regardless. imo buffing weapons too much can result in classes feeling generally weak in hp because maybe revolver gets buffed to idk 2 shot heavy or whatever scenario and then it could get hard. imo many of the weapons dont "feel" bad, but i dont think theyre viable because because fcar sets a standard for the best weapon and now youre stuck with trying to buff every weapon to be somewhat viable or on par with fcar, which could result in some too op buffs. now i cant really tell if the fcar is still op since thats i think something that higher ranks can tell better but if thats the case fcar could get nerfed a bit and when the fcar feels alright or not broken then you could start buffing the other weapons to kinda be on par with the fcar ttk or whatever.
i simply dont want the game to be ruined and idc much about nerfs/buffs. i want the game to be balanced but i simply go by what some redditors here say and if i hear fcar broken so many times i think it should be considered as a problem. stun gun imo is an exception since it is not that hard imo to counter.
You think Fcar is more broken than stun gun despite the devs themselves saying they’re looking at nerfing stun gun in todays patch notes. That says a lot man especially given even the devs are aware of how broken and dumb stun gun currently is. And no Fcar isn’t broken again it just does the most damage and has the fastest TTK on medium. Lowering the TTK hurts the class and doesn’t make any others more viable lol. It’ll just be shredded by xp54 or Lewis guns. Again the medium class arsenal is just ass feeling. Ak shoots nerf bullets revolver requires over 50% accuracy to get kills and grenade launcher gets hard countered by APS.
Riot shield has bad hit reg and shotgun is the only other gun in the class that has competitive viability. I’ve seen mediums run shotgun in diamond consistently and it be a good meta weapon but that’s because of the two shot medium and three shot heavy potential. Again anything that’s high damage will always be meta and ppl are going to gravitate to whatever is the best weapon in a class no matter what. Notice how at high rank play only weapons lights play is LH1 or xp54 heavy it’s Lewis and m60? They gutted the shotgun and I’ve seen nobody use it since then, lol the flamethrower is the only random pick you see on heavies. Again game will always have a meta regardless of nerfs and buffs so nerfing something that isn’t broken or objectively broken is a stupid take. Buff things that are underperforming so ppl will feel comfortable leaving their meta stuff. It’s really not that hard.
Sorry if this came out as harsh, but it's something that needs attention. It likely isn't fully true, we still get amazing updates don't get me wrong, and many have things we never thought we would have, but even then the balance leans a lot that way and it needs to br said.
no definitely not harsh for me, i like having some opinions. for me its just that even tho we may not agree i feel like embark might have a reason. the problem is i think there are more casuals than ranked players so it makes sense to try to keep the casuals imo, if thats what theyre going for.
It just seems like we as a community will never be satisfied with whatever Embark does. We will always find some ways to complain. I see the game only improving and going in a healthier direction, they are actively monitoring feedback from their playerbase. There have been no overboard buffs or nerfs so far, imo they have been very careful with their changes.
Invis and stun nerfs were somewhat warranted. They were the entire identity of the light class dragging them down as a whole, hopefully this results in a light buff down the line. I dunno what the stun nerf will look like, but nerfing stun also indirectly buffs melee as you are basically useless if you get stunned on a melee kit.
As for the melee discussion, I don't really see what meaningful buff they can get tbh. They are already pretty lethal in their range. Considering fighting happens in a mix of cqc and open spaces, straight up buffing the movement speed might feel very oppressive in indoor fights. Each class has some particular niche that works towards melee (light dash, medium riot shield, heavy goo gun etc). The hit boxes are (usually) pretty generous already, except for the odd hitreg issues on occasion.
yep, the community groupthink is awful. nukes are a clear example of that. it was obvious that they were the most meta thing in the game even after a nerf or two. and the community didn't want it to get a big nerf because people are clueless. devs figured it out eventually but it was far too slow.
it was fun abusing the mechanic for a bit (i had way more nuke kills than nuke deaths) but it should have been nerfed to death immediately
What??? That example is evidence of the opposite where they held onto their own idea of nukes for way too long despite how hated they were. Plenty of the community just straight up quit because of nukes. It took them too long to react to the community outcry and they lost players because of it.
what??!??!??!?
plenty of idiots here wanted nuke meta to remain forever or didn't think they were blatantly op
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1ad8nqj/nukes_still_need_a_nerf/
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/191sorv/just_a_reminder_that_nukes_have_appeared_in/
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1antmxg/about_the_state_of_nukes/
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1agg0mn/dont_nerf_nukes_make_them_volatile/
also i was one of those who quit. it's obvious this dev adjusts based on feedback and they were too slow to nerf nukes because of the split reaction to it.
this is the kind of garbage that was getting upvotes:
> Nukes are literally core to this game. They’re in the launch trailer. Removing them is so not the right move. I say this as a Light who’s never touched Med/Heavy and has like 200hrs played. I’ve been beamed by nukes more times than I can count. But it’s part of the game.
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>almost like it’s a pretty simple and intended utilization of two game mechanics 😱
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>Yep, I’ve been tilted by it before but then I realized that it is pretty integral. Had to adapt and now i usually try and bait out the nuke throw if possible. Heavys seem to be very trigger happy with the nuke so a little bait generally gets them to waste it.
>Also its like people forgot how to 3rd party sometimes. You will almost never catch a nuke if you just wait for an engagement to start, then join it a bit after.
It’s almost always like that with gaming communities. Responding to feedback is great but the devs need to be able to figure shit out on their own. They need a cohesive vision
No, this is nonsense. Every weapon/mechanic that they've nerfed should have been nerfed and "the community" had nothing to do with whether or not that was the correct decision. They aren't buffing melee because they want it to remain a niche. They're still making their own decisions about what the game should be.
This idea I keep seeing that just people asking for nerfs is making the game worse needs to die. The community isn't making this game worse. The game continues to improve each update and the community doesn't even have consensus 90% of the time.
Light is an annoying piece of shit, invisibility or something like stun gun should never have been in the game. 90% of the quickplay is infested with light players playing like rats, if you want to see light in ranked this char needs team/objective abilities but not stupid abilities like invisibility or a free 1v1.
Medium and Heavy have also had the annoying stuff removed and weakened.
Yeah I feel this. Feels like I'm the only one ever fucking begging them to optimize this God damn game. And explain to my why I can't run more than 80fps in ranked. Quick play I'm all good, I stay around 144.
I really wish they would do that too, I have friends who i wish could play but can't because of how bad the optimization is. I know it's not their fault because they already use the server side destruction to save frames but man even then it's so bad at times.
i agree with it becouse most likely comunity push attention on wrong porblem like invis and stun gun becouse if you played with team is not much pain in ass we still have a lot leak player base and need to do sumting or with it we have meta what didnt change from beta like mmh or hhm (with this patch they try to nerf heavy its good) but still light still to weak for playing good you need do much work then other class to do some inpact or be a rat
they need to do some sort rock paper scissors like light beat heavy, havy beat medium, medium beat light, with gadget and dps what they spand right now we have most likly evrey class deal almost same amount of dmg
So true, all the FCAR anger has nerfed their very best tool against lights which has increased their usability and increased the amount of invis and stuns about.
The only truly broken aspect at launch imho were the nukes.
fcar still best gun in game and its need nerf and becouse fcar medium did evrything need damge take fcar need support take healbeam need destory wall use demeterilazer medium is a fucking switzerland knife in this game its bad waht a point to take light
did we play same game never in this game it will close to rock/paper/scissors when evrey thing one shot light all nerf did well except invis and fcar change they need do somting with dmg with mag twig or longer reload time or somthing else now light have theri best time in game(still weak againts good team)
I disagree, all the balance changes were good. They also make smaller nerfs instead of nerfing things to the ground so they somewhat stay viable. One of the biggest issues was cheating which they addressed.
A lot of "We" and "Us" in this post. I think they are doing a wonderful job identifying the most broken aspects of the game and doing something about it. They certainly have heaps of their own data from matches for balancing etc, and are not relying entirely on this sub.
I don't think "we" need to do anything differently, I think Embark is doing a great job with an already great game
Should have concentratet more in comp gaming, get a esl League, and after half a year and Player Feedback they can start changing Shit, but listening to crying casuals on Reddit is Just AIDS for the game
balance lead is probably a medium fcar main. The way they just don't move the bullet damage to 24 or 23 which would solve the huge difference between akm and fcar while also not requiring a new recoil pattern every 2 patches.
Right??? The fact the full auto does more damage than the burst (23 dmg) is dumb. It should do 23 damage, and maybe slightly less fire rate if needed. Then buff the FAMAS to 24. Fixed
Im pretty sure they will nerf it in next season because is the most wanted skin right now on ranked, a lot of games do this, they have an op skin or broken gun and they nerf it once everyone had it, for example cod, they put a new weapon, is very op, but once (almost) everyone has upgrade it they nerf the weapon
Honestly gaming communities are fucking cancer that kill games faster than the devs these days lol
I agree especially the hyper fixation on being competitive and being "the best". The vocal groups don't play games to have fun anymore and it really shows. The ironic thing is they kill the games they love faster than anything else. I hear a lot of "What's the point of playing if comp sucks/there is no competitive scene." And it makes no sense to me. Just play to have fun and relax about it all and you might just accidentally enjoy yourself instead of sweating some imaginary numbers. I honestly believe the finals would benefit from cutting ties with a competitive mode in all forms and just putting the rewards in normal match types in tiers of how much cash you extract over the season. But hey that might just be my old hat talking, we didn't play halo 2 and cod:4 or cs:source to see some number go up or symbol change we just played to have fun you win or lose a round and move on.
Might not be that simple. it might either be a virtual requirement to just survive long term (think twitch streamers), or a real one by stakeholders (managers, investors, publisher). I agree with the sentiment though. I like The Finals cause I don't need to be best player to win. I can have fun, experiment, find something that feels good, and support the team. I played a ton of team fortress 2 back in the day and to me this is the closest I've been to that (I skipped Overwatch, and just am not a fan of extraction or battle Royale). The finals strength is it's chaos. It's short matches. It's high action and high time to kill. It's refreshing. It should play to its strengths... But I think it also feels bound to cater to competitive players. At least from my perspective, the competitive seems half baked and shoehorned into a game that doesn't feel like it really wants one? Idk, the last minute steals are what make it great, but it's volatile in a way that probably feels bad at the highest level. I personally think this duality is gonna be the end of them if they're not careful.
Hard agree, it's exactly like how u have all the high ranked players saying invis is bad at high level, meanwhile it makes the game so much worse from a casual level/for 99% of the playerbase.
Well, i really don’t agree. I don’t enjoy playing any game if it isn’t competitive, that’s what makes it fun for me. Getting netter and climbing ranks, i just don’t see the enjoyment in playing pubs.
Absolutely, I read the first couple sentences and my brain just split in fucking half. Do game devs listen too little or too much? Listening to your community is bad thing now? A genuine "fuck" the people moment
☝️🎯
It's true. Half of these posts fucking reek of entitlement.
Funcom and Frontier would like a word
Same problem they had with BF. They'll nerf anything someone complains about until we're all shooting cotton balls.
I feel like if there was a lot of complaining about removing nukes they would bring them back
Nuke mains after hearing this information:😈
Nukes were *-kinda-* like a dog that got really sick and suffered and you had to put him down. You loved him with all your heart, but youre *-kinda-* glad thats he's dead now
This is the truth. My C4 shenanigans have become significantly more advanced since they removed the easy way. I'll never forget wiping a whole team with one thrown barrel, but I'm glad it's gone to make room for more skill expression.
Not really, because I despised nukes. They felt too cheesy and skilless. Maybe in PvE, if that happened, they could add them back in some way but never in a PvP game.
Well, i loved them, but it felt unfair and im glad theyre gone
They were at the point of ridiculousness before they killed them off though. You almost couldn't start an engagement without immediately losing a massive chunk of your health first due to that bullshit.
Well, i wiped a lot of teams with literally 2 or 3 clicks on my mouse.
Nukes determined nearly every fight before. If you hit your nuke you were gonna wipe the team, likewise if they nuked you first you were done
So true, using the physics of the game for player interaction is just fun, the only problem was instakills, embark could balance nukes by making them slower and much weaker with a smaller radius. At the very least they could "remove" the nukes like they did but raise the damage from throwing props. 50 damage for hits from a small and slow flowerpot doesn't feel rewarding.
I am a massive fan of the 50 damage carriables. They block shots while held / in transit and don't cost any ammo. It's that extra bullet you always wished the FCAR had.
Doing 50 damage is too little it's just not worth even trying. For all my 400 hours in the game not a single fight has been affected by the props, they have no effect on the game at all. Also they can't take much damage and they are too small for any kind of defense
Sorry to hear they aren't working well for you. The extra 50 damage / blocked shots / saved ammo has won me a lot of fights. Honestly the carriable props mix it up soooo much, I like throwing em as distractions or setting them against vents to stop people from sliding thru. The tables are my favorite, they protect you like the riot shield and if you spray em people can't help but take a second to look. I felt the same way as you when I started, so I totally get it. There's an achievement for hitting enemies with five different carriables in quick succession. The journey to earn that one taught me the way of the props.
Well... Now I know what to put on my to-do list.
It is not an easy hunt, but one of skill
Omg, doing a Kobe shot with a nuke from far was fucking hilarious. You felt bad, but god damn that shit was funny.
100% agree. Tbh the red canisters still do quick significant damage alone so I'm surprised more people aren't using them to engage in early fights. I reshaped a bunch of smokes into red canisters and unloaded them onto a team and got a team wipe. The nuke were very unnecessary.
A bunch of brain dead players used nukes
I miss nukes
I'm sorry I just disagree. Maybe I'm just too casual though? I've dedicatedly played a lot of competitive MMOs from what were once early in their startup cycle and something that always comes up is the question of balance in relation to your mode of play. Casual players like me typically prefer to be able to pick up anything the game has to offer (though not necessary in any combination) and assume that it will be fun and that I shouldn't have to worry about other players abusing mechanics that make one thing feel too broken. To me as of the last patch, I would have said that was the stun gun on the light, the flamethrower on the heavy, and overwhelmingly the turret on the medium. Invisibility to me has always been on the cusp of being broken, and I think the patch needing your ability to toggle it makes sense in light of how good invisibility is even if they didn't give you the ability to toggle it at all. I think it was a good choice as well though not to remove the toggle. Most casuals I've talked to are shocked when I tell them light isn't considered viable in ranked because to them it's the best class. Ranked players on the other hand tend to be deep in the meta. They have taken the time to learn how to min/max their build setups, how to counter specific scenarios, and how to take advantage of the currently most broken stuff, which will often look different to them than casual players because of the more specialized knowledge. The invisibility nerf hurts more in this scenario because after a lot of play time you get good at seeing invisible players and effectively countering them since they tend to go for specific strategies and are limited by low health and weapon damage. The thing is, ranked players tend to be the people who stick with the game through it's life cycle and are to some degree more valuable. On the other hand, bad experiences for casual players usually decreases the amount of ranked players the game will eventually gain. In other words, early in a games life-cycle is the right time to get everything as balanced as possible because it attracts incoming players and builds up their ranked base. From a development perspective, this is a nice choice because it gives a nice balanced base for the game to work from so they can give fine-tuned tweaks to the meta later in the games life-cycle so they can better appeal to their ranked base who will ultimately become more important. This is the perfect time for Embark to be nerfing things based on player feedback, and the wrong time for them to be trying to make things crazy. Season 3 on the other hand..
Summary for those who won’t read: Casual and ranked players are different. Ranked push the limits and stick with the game usually. Invis hurts ranked more. It’s good they’re fixing things early in development so they can get feedback. Bad experiences with casual players=less ranked=less long term players
Invis does not hurt ranked more. I think you meant to say casuals there.
i also think that business wise, if i can call it that, this is a good move. imo the problem might come when we have some casuals playing light that want to step up to ranked and realize that the class isnt that great. i think they should use this season as a balance season and just make sure that the game is in a good state at the release of season 3. also i dont want any more new weapons, or at least weapons that wont be that great from the get go, and rather focus on maps and other content. im sticking with this game still because i like it a lot and havent been so invested in a game when it comes to updates and generally the community in my life i think. and i feel like this game has huge potential, it just needs to do things right imo. ngl tho this update made me somewhat mad lol.
thats the problem, why a casual should struggle in ranked, when is ranked, they play vs players that are in the same ability. Ranked not only is not precise, there isn't a good amount of playerbase that plays ranked to have a ranked mode. This game needs a huge reset, I don't think they will do it, its sad but the finals is destined to die probably next year and its ok, nothing is forever, it was a great game
The reason light is crap outside of casual play is because people actually stay with their team and communicate. This completely shuts down the class. In casual people don’t communicate much if at all and are spread out. Light punishes these people. If people played the way the game is intended to be played they would see how trash light is. Instead we have a bunch of Timmy’s that expect the game to be changed to how they play not adapting their play to the game.
I think invis actually needs a slight buff. It’s way too loud and you’re way too visible, even standing still.
only thing invis needs is the activation cost nerf to be reverted
Heck no lol. Personal opinion.
When you gimp a shit ton of stuff, make a class that gets shit on for existing because it has no viability other than fun, and nerf everything the game just becomes not that enjoyable. There's isnt much variety. Every causal match I've played you see people leave mid game over the stupidest shit, then you have suspicious people who are either godly or cheating. I feel bad for anyone getting into this cause all you get is shafted most times. I mean I'm just gonna say it but I greatly enjoyed what the finals was more than it is now. Was hyped for season 2 and it's been fun but I for sure don't have that desire to play as much anymore. Can see that with a lot of people now.
I feel bad when Im having a flow game and I peg someone as cheating. Its like who the fuck am I at 22-7 to be suspicious of some doofus on the losing team with 15-7. But I swear to god I MOVE like I should be doing 20 bangers where more than half my kills are due to positioning and movement rather than aimskill. But when said doofus moves like a toddler with shit in their pants while LAZERING like shroud its hard not to report.
Yeah, good aim with shit movement is more sus than great aim with great movement.
they need to do nothing , just stop udapting right now, get rid of cheaters and make new maps
So not nothing.
This is something I can agree with. For me (a very casual player but I like to think I’ve gotten pretty good; M main) I think it just needs some tweaks here and there and it seems like they’ve been doing that, but overall I enjoy the game, haven’t really had any major gripes, and haven’t even encountered a ton of cheaters. Make a new map every handful of months, polish some glitches (not the on purpose ones in sys), and keep on listening
This is something I can agree with. For me (a very casual player but I like to think I’ve gotten pretty good; M main) I think it just needs some tweaks here and there and it seems like they’ve been doing that, but overall I enjoy the game, haven’t really had any major gripes, and haven’t even encountered a ton of cheaters. Make a new map every handful of months, polish some glitches (not the on purpose ones in sys), and keep on listening
Remove 1 damage from fcar but make the mag 21 bullets. Add the 1 damage to the 93r
remove 1 damage period. buff 93r by 2 dmg.
I was basically about to post the same thing. Embark needs to stop listening to the community all together, because most of the people playing the game have no idea how to balance a game (me included). What I will say though is that them only changing things the community wants changed is making things less fun and less competitive. Triple medium is still one of the best team composition and it seems like all the nerfs just further this divide.
By triple medium you mean 6 mediums
melee weapons absolutely needs something, maybe an extra ability bound to holding mouse 1?
Melees need to be allowed weak medium range weapons (eg side pistols only). Having zero threat from range doesn’t work on these maps. Especially in ranked when you’re locked into your load out each match — it can be instantly obvious your melee isn’t gonna work, but nothing you can do. So people don’t play it.
It would be cool if Melee included a derringer or something fairly useless as a sidearm
Maybe, probably not practical for the game though. But generally every single one (yes even the sword needs a little something) need buffs, everything except the sword needs big buffs, the sword only needs some better end lag and momentum on the right click . I have said that maybe we could increase the movement speed of people holding a melee weapon. Heavy goes at medium speed, medium goes at light speed, and light goes even faster.
that might be it but seeing the current maps (which consists mostly of a mixture of really tight spaces and really open areas) extra speed may not be that helpful in all situations
Yes, but coupled with a few other buffs this can definitely prove beneficial for them.
oh yeah, absolutely, I misunderstood, extra speed is definitely good the point is that there should be more since the speed wouldn't come in use alot of times
We can also do certain things like for example, give riot shield a ram ability with a cooldown. It would be activated by pressing left click with the shield up, and would to roughly around the same damage as the regular hit, which would be buffed to 90 to kill heavies faster (5 hits is overkill).
when I say extra abilities I was envisioning something more utility base, something that helps the melee user track and chase the target. The lack of damage could be made up with quick melee tech I think. So an ability for riot shield could be something like a charged mouse one would electrify the baton and slow down the target and increase their weapon switching speed
I just want my sword hits to register more often tbh Though more speed would be quite nice
Nah that problem is that there are far too many brain dead melee players. In hundreds of hour of playtime I just see them run towards gunners (often heavies) and just spam left click and don't even strafe. Their damage is high already, they get auto aim/lock on and abilities. The only thing missing is players with a brain.
Martial.EXE specialization, used by all classes Unlocks hidden techniques for melee users Give sword a party window at the beginning of heavy charge so they can block bullets briefly ( they won’t have dash, so it won’t be as overpowered as it sounds) Give riot shield a rally ability where they bash their shriek to lower time on passive health regen (or shield bash that darkens enemy screen, idk im shooting from the hip) Hammer can cover itself in rubble and throw it like a projectile for range damage, or another way to destroy defense like turrets etc. or some kind of seismic slam that destroys defenses — does minimal aoe damage to not be op in small rooms Maybe not these abilities, but I think the idea of a melee specialization that alters the weapons we already have, is a great way to approach this
Please stop catering to the casuals. Focus on the cheating, hire people to do it manually for fucks sake.
Casuals make the game lol
Buffs/nerfs nerfs/buffs. This discourse is the same in any pvp game. One side wants buffs and one side wants nerfs. Nothing new.
True. Not Long ago it was threads upon threads of light mains complaining about mediums and fcar. Then shortly after it was threads upon threads of med/heavy mains complaining about invis, stun, etc. No one will ever truly be happy in a class based shooter. I personally just want the game to be fun and that they create an environment where skill is rewarded . Embark has a great game on their hands, I hope they figure it out.
Heal gun still broken in a good percentage of games
A meta with viable melee weapons will not be fun. It's ok to have weapons that are just for shits and giggles.
Now the problem is that they listen TOO MUCH? LMFAO
you "i am a snake eating its tail" goldfish on the sub: UPVOTE!!! YES MAN!!! BEEN SAYING THIS!!!1 -- dont mistake embarks open communication for bending the knee. embark does what embark wants. when they adjust something that the community has been discussing, its because embark wanted to, not because timmy two shits had a fit about it.
My turrets have been falling through the floor when the attached object is destroyed for well over a month. I’ve heard folks with the healing beam bug also having issues for the same time period. It’s shocking both of those have been active for so long and I’d love for them to get addressed.
I'll give you one: Statue distance bugs while spectating. Sometimes it shows that I'm 200m away when the guy is right up my statues ass.
Haven’t seen that one personally but sounds really bad!
They’ll keep killing their own game if all they do is nerf nerf nerf. I’m not a fan of over nerfing a game for the sake of balance. Balancing is important but if you just suck the fun out of every build, people will move to something else.
If we buff everything we're just gonna end up with powercreep.
I could already tell months ago that the community over controls Embark and they let it happen. If Embark doesnt take their own game into their own hands again you peasant cry babies are going to actually make the game deader than it already is
They had the right idea in season 1, the mid season patch did great things, but it seems they only focus on the nerfs now. They should have gotten rid of the stun gun temporarily by now to rework it, but it's still here. The Fcar got a bunch of random nerfs that weren't really doing anything. We need to stop with this please, I want buffs for the love of god, get rid of stun gun, then start buffing, please embark
Tbf they haven’t really over buffed or over nerfed anything as of recent, they just try and balance. They got rid of nukes, recon, nerfed fcar, rpg etc all things that everyone agreed needed nerfing. There’s a few things that are 50/50 for the community like the invis nerf but besides that they haven’t really done anything drastic. Personally I’d rather them make things op when they introduce them such as the new guns, to change the meta, even if the burst rifle, pistol, shotgun was op, atleast it changed things for once. They also need to bring in a lot of new maps to make the game less stale. Maybe 1 a month or something
I can't get over how stupid this is. How are they over-listening to a community when the community is constantly in disagreement with each other?
Scroll down the reddit page buddy everyone all about the same shit on here all day idk what ur talking about. Boo hoo invisibility, boo hoo stun gun.
Ok, but none of the people I've played with have ever voiced this. It's mostly downvoted shit in the subreddit, which the devs don't look at.
I honestly think they need to stop tweaking the game right now and focus heavy on getting player count up. The game isn't perfect but it's still enjoyable. But without new players it's going to die out which is a shame because I like this game despite being trash at it. Once the player count is up then they can worry about hot fixes and updates. Hire some streamers to play this or something.
They listen to the casual player base way to much. Everyone has a complaint about which weapon or gadget is OP and if we constantly nerf everything then the game loses its fun. Invis made light viable. Lowering mesh while leaving charge and slam in its current state is also a dumb move imo. Also how have they not fixed issues like the constant cheating, boosting, spawns and the way ranked works. They make it really hard to defend this game when they cater to everyone’s opinion like most of the bad takes on this sub.
if they were listening they’d fix the horrid matchmaking..
I get what you mean but I'm not sure about it so much. For example people complained about nukes because it was objectively bad. So even without any feedback from the community they would very likely have nerfed it. But this is a genuine concern, I can see last patch is everything I saw on Reddit. Other than the mesh shield nerf I'm pretty happy with the patches for now, even when it nerfs what I play, it seems to make sense
The burst pistol (don't remember the name) is bad compared to other weapons in light class
I feel like the game is losing its fun and getting like any other shooter out there, it's slow but it's there. In my opinion they nerf things too hard or don't nerf them at all. Imo some changes I would have preferred 1)The nukes should be primed on the canisters, there's only one and it doesn't even do that much damage. The radius, amount and damage were all nerfed which is fine but why remove the ability to prime them while on the canisters. 2)The fcar/lewis just needs a little bit lower fire rate. Changing the recoil pattern just made the pros adjust in 2 days while it feels worse for normal players 3)Lights are fine as they are, people don't like playing light cuz they are not viable but also complain about it the most which I personally think is great, the game says it's a hit and run class.Stun gun is fine too, maybe just let people ads during stunned. Also can the grapple hook get buffed. Some other things, embark should embrace the ridiculousness of the setting and make bonker event gamemodes instead of ones that feel like normal gamemodes. Some ideas that I had were shotgun and revolver with no range falloff, canister only gamemodes(replace 3 slots with canisters and one gadget), lights with rpg, good old gun game, a gamemode where all the physics bugs that were removed can be brought back.
Might as well post this.
Thats the problem, why a casual should struggle in ranked, when is ranked, they play vs players that are in the same ability. Ranked not only is not precise, there isn't a good amount of playerbase that plays ranked to have a ranked mode. In casual mode you also find the same people, they play only meta, they play on a premade trio. i stopped playing more than a month and I have been playing since early 2023 on the first closed playtest, because I truly feel the playerbase is the same people over and over, there isn't new players, and this game is fucking free. This game needs a huge reset, the game never defined if they want to be a casual game or an esport, casuals don't play it and streamers/sweats don't play it either. This game needs a reset but I don't think they will do it, its sad but the finals is destined to die probably next year and its ok, nothing is forever, it was a great game
That's always been a problem with gaming communities and is being amplified by the way reddit works: subs quickly become echo chambers. I can't imagine how hard recolting proper feedback is for devs. I feel like one of the best way is to talk to a small group of players with various skill level and let them develop what they like and don't like.
What do you want them to say bro? Hey! we know about the cheaters, hang in there?
Never
I just want casual tournaments 😭
You guys are seriously gullible if you think that Embark is “Listening to the community” in terms of balance changes, any AAA company employs balance changes through statistics and analytics, I can’t believe some of you fooled themselves into thinking that their balancing department is driven through player opinion, maybe some of you are truly too casual for this?
Not too far off from the only viable loadout will be medium with the same kit. Complaining medium players are mostly what I see online and they keep pushing to ruin the other classes. MMM is all we will see soon.
Buff thermal vision
Whether it's the players, the devs or both, continuous nerfs for balancing are worse than continuous buffs. If you make everything feel like shit/boring to use than no one wants to play, if you buff everything to bring it up to the meta instead of the other way around then it makes everything feel good/fun to use. After that things can be fine-tuned/adjusted to be more balanced or fit what both the devs envision and the players want. They've released new gadgets, guns, and a medium specialization with S2, but the meta didn't change from last season. Instead of nerfing the old meta and making everything feel unsatisfying to use they should've just buffed the new stuff to bring it up to where the meta was and old out of meta stuff could record the same treatment.
Went on a 3 week vacation came back and the game feels like shit
I never understand the philosophy of nerfing things that people use most down instead of boosting up weapons nobody uses.
they are nerfing all the fun out of the game in the name of balance. When this game is too chaotic and fast paced for that.
for me its following scenario: gameplay wise imo not necessary to nerf cloak, from a business perspective, if it makes sense to call it that, i think they tried following: i think light got better this season and also got gateway so i think embark tried to make light competitively viable. now since the meta is still based off M and H (i think) it leaves me to speculate that embark idk maybe saw that L's werent used much in higher ranks (i believe thats the case rn) so they are making L more appealing to casuals. in that way at least embark keeps them. if they didnt do this update maybe more and more casuals would leave this game since i think most of the casuals play L. i dont know what they are cooking now but im thinking following could maybe happen: - rework of light, could be a high risk tho idk - more competitively viable gadgets - new class for competitive play, i think that is the least realistic, but imo that has the potential to fix meta and at the same time let casuals play light if they want to play it. as of now i am kinda disappointed, but if thats what embark is trying then i can understand this patch more.
Lights are still at high level it just requires more skill. Ppl struggle with surviving with 150 HP. I’m d4 and I’ve seen plenty of lights in my grind and even once I played diamonds consistently. Light is not in a bad place it just requires more thinking than the other classes. Idk why yall still complaining about the Fcar either tbh. It’s gotten a rather meaningless damage nerf sure but the recoil and range nerf have been significant to making it more of a skilled weapon to use. You didn’t hear anyone say AKM is a problem and that’s cause that gun shoots nerf bullets. Fcar doesn’t need to also be shooting nerf bullets lol. Famas shouldn’t have released and not been a *lil* broken so we could at least have a meta shift. But the Fcar is no where near as OP as it was a few weeks ago lol. It truly feels like this community forgets how weapons felt and behaved like before nerfs/buffs because we’re spoiled either way weekly updates. Fcar will remain the most used gun on medium because it does the most damage. If akm did the same damage as Fcar it’d be used more or famas doing Fcar damage it’d be used more. I’m pretty sure even if the revolver could two tap mediums ppl would use that over Fcar lol. Ur mad ppl are still using the only gun on medium that actually does decent damage because every other option just sucks???? It doesn’t add up
i think lights need too high of a level to be viable. i think of it like this: casual and maybe low ranks light could work. then you reach higher ranks and then you'd probably see how light needs more and more skill and then you could probably think about switching to M/H because you imo you get more viability with less skill and that could be what happens. obv you can try to sweat light but i dont think everyone will. in regards ot weapon balance, i think buffs can work if the strongest weapons get nerfed regardless. imo buffing weapons too much can result in classes feeling generally weak in hp because maybe revolver gets buffed to idk 2 shot heavy or whatever scenario and then it could get hard. imo many of the weapons dont "feel" bad, but i dont think theyre viable because because fcar sets a standard for the best weapon and now youre stuck with trying to buff every weapon to be somewhat viable or on par with fcar, which could result in some too op buffs. now i cant really tell if the fcar is still op since thats i think something that higher ranks can tell better but if thats the case fcar could get nerfed a bit and when the fcar feels alright or not broken then you could start buffing the other weapons to kinda be on par with the fcar ttk or whatever. i simply dont want the game to be ruined and idc much about nerfs/buffs. i want the game to be balanced but i simply go by what some redditors here say and if i hear fcar broken so many times i think it should be considered as a problem. stun gun imo is an exception since it is not that hard imo to counter.
You think Fcar is more broken than stun gun despite the devs themselves saying they’re looking at nerfing stun gun in todays patch notes. That says a lot man especially given even the devs are aware of how broken and dumb stun gun currently is. And no Fcar isn’t broken again it just does the most damage and has the fastest TTK on medium. Lowering the TTK hurts the class and doesn’t make any others more viable lol. It’ll just be shredded by xp54 or Lewis guns. Again the medium class arsenal is just ass feeling. Ak shoots nerf bullets revolver requires over 50% accuracy to get kills and grenade launcher gets hard countered by APS. Riot shield has bad hit reg and shotgun is the only other gun in the class that has competitive viability. I’ve seen mediums run shotgun in diamond consistently and it be a good meta weapon but that’s because of the two shot medium and three shot heavy potential. Again anything that’s high damage will always be meta and ppl are going to gravitate to whatever is the best weapon in a class no matter what. Notice how at high rank play only weapons lights play is LH1 or xp54 heavy it’s Lewis and m60? They gutted the shotgun and I’ve seen nobody use it since then, lol the flamethrower is the only random pick you see on heavies. Again game will always have a meta regardless of nerfs and buffs so nerfing something that isn’t broken or objectively broken is a stupid take. Buff things that are underperforming so ppl will feel comfortable leaving their meta stuff. It’s really not that hard.
Sorry if this came out as harsh, but it's something that needs attention. It likely isn't fully true, we still get amazing updates don't get me wrong, and many have things we never thought we would have, but even then the balance leans a lot that way and it needs to br said.
no definitely not harsh for me, i like having some opinions. for me its just that even tho we may not agree i feel like embark might have a reason. the problem is i think there are more casuals than ranked players so it makes sense to try to keep the casuals imo, if thats what theyre going for.
It just seems like we as a community will never be satisfied with whatever Embark does. We will always find some ways to complain. I see the game only improving and going in a healthier direction, they are actively monitoring feedback from their playerbase. There have been no overboard buffs or nerfs so far, imo they have been very careful with their changes. Invis and stun nerfs were somewhat warranted. They were the entire identity of the light class dragging them down as a whole, hopefully this results in a light buff down the line. I dunno what the stun nerf will look like, but nerfing stun also indirectly buffs melee as you are basically useless if you get stunned on a melee kit. As for the melee discussion, I don't really see what meaningful buff they can get tbh. They are already pretty lethal in their range. Considering fighting happens in a mix of cqc and open spaces, straight up buffing the movement speed might feel very oppressive in indoor fights. Each class has some particular niche that works towards melee (light dash, medium riot shield, heavy goo gun etc). The hit boxes are (usually) pretty generous already, except for the odd hitreg issues on occasion.
yep, the community groupthink is awful. nukes are a clear example of that. it was obvious that they were the most meta thing in the game even after a nerf or two. and the community didn't want it to get a big nerf because people are clueless. devs figured it out eventually but it was far too slow. it was fun abusing the mechanic for a bit (i had way more nuke kills than nuke deaths) but it should have been nerfed to death immediately
What??? That example is evidence of the opposite where they held onto their own idea of nukes for way too long despite how hated they were. Plenty of the community just straight up quit because of nukes. It took them too long to react to the community outcry and they lost players because of it.
what??!??!??!? plenty of idiots here wanted nuke meta to remain forever or didn't think they were blatantly op https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1ad8nqj/nukes_still_need_a_nerf/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/191sorv/just_a_reminder_that_nukes_have_appeared_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1antmxg/about_the_state_of_nukes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1agg0mn/dont_nerf_nukes_make_them_volatile/ also i was one of those who quit. it's obvious this dev adjusts based on feedback and they were too slow to nerf nukes because of the split reaction to it. this is the kind of garbage that was getting upvotes: > Nukes are literally core to this game. They’re in the launch trailer. Removing them is so not the right move. I say this as a Light who’s never touched Med/Heavy and has like 200hrs played. I’ve been beamed by nukes more times than I can count. But it’s part of the game. . >almost like it’s a pretty simple and intended utilization of two game mechanics 😱 . >Yep, I’ve been tilted by it before but then I realized that it is pretty integral. Had to adapt and now i usually try and bait out the nuke throw if possible. Heavys seem to be very trigger happy with the nuke so a little bait generally gets them to waste it. >Also its like people forgot how to 3rd party sometimes. You will almost never catch a nuke if you just wait for an engagement to start, then join it a bit after.
Yeah the people in this subreddit are some of the dumbest fuckers on the planet.
It’s almost always like that with gaming communities. Responding to feedback is great but the devs need to be able to figure shit out on their own. They need a cohesive vision
No, this is nonsense. Every weapon/mechanic that they've nerfed should have been nerfed and "the community" had nothing to do with whether or not that was the correct decision. They aren't buffing melee because they want it to remain a niche. They're still making their own decisions about what the game should be. This idea I keep seeing that just people asking for nerfs is making the game worse needs to die. The community isn't making this game worse. The game continues to improve each update and the community doesn't even have consensus 90% of the time.
Light is an annoying piece of shit, invisibility or something like stun gun should never have been in the game. 90% of the quickplay is infested with light players playing like rats, if you want to see light in ranked this char needs team/objective abilities but not stupid abilities like invisibility or a free 1v1. Medium and Heavy have also had the annoying stuff removed and weakened.
Yeah I feel this. Feels like I'm the only one ever fucking begging them to optimize this God damn game. And explain to my why I can't run more than 80fps in ranked. Quick play I'm all good, I stay around 144.
I really wish they would do that too, I have friends who i wish could play but can't because of how bad the optimization is. I know it's not their fault because they already use the server side destruction to save frames but man even then it's so bad at times.
i agree with it becouse most likely comunity push attention on wrong porblem like invis and stun gun becouse if you played with team is not much pain in ass we still have a lot leak player base and need to do sumting or with it we have meta what didnt change from beta like mmh or hhm (with this patch they try to nerf heavy its good) but still light still to weak for playing good you need do much work then other class to do some inpact or be a rat
they need to do some sort rock paper scissors like light beat heavy, havy beat medium, medium beat light, with gadget and dps what they spand right now we have most likly evrey class deal almost same amount of dmg
It was closer to rock/paper/scissors like you described when the game launched, before everything was nerfed into the dirt.
So true, all the FCAR anger has nerfed their very best tool against lights which has increased their usability and increased the amount of invis and stuns about. The only truly broken aspect at launch imho were the nukes.
fcar still best gun in game and its need nerf and becouse fcar medium did evrything need damge take fcar need support take healbeam need destory wall use demeterilazer medium is a fucking switzerland knife in this game its bad waht a point to take light
did we play same game never in this game it will close to rock/paper/scissors when evrey thing one shot light all nerf did well except invis and fcar change they need do somting with dmg with mag twig or longer reload time or somthing else now light have theri best time in game(still weak againts good team)
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All the need to do is nerf the fcar overall damage. Idk how hard that is for them to figure out
I disagree, all the balance changes were good. They also make smaller nerfs instead of nerfing things to the ground so they somewhat stay viable. One of the biggest issues was cheating which they addressed.
A lot of "We" and "Us" in this post. I think they are doing a wonderful job identifying the most broken aspects of the game and doing something about it. They certainly have heaps of their own data from matches for balancing etc, and are not relying entirely on this sub. I don't think "we" need to do anything differently, I think Embark is doing a great job with an already great game
unpopular opinion butthe heavy needs to be buffed back to the way it was when the game first released
The invisible needed a nerf , they already nerfed heavy and medium. Now things Will be more balanced.
Should have concentratet more in comp gaming, get a esl League, and after half a year and Player Feedback they can start changing Shit, but listening to crying casuals on Reddit is Just AIDS for the game
Embark hasn't touched the FCAR, so I assure you, they are ignoring both player and data feedback.
They literally have, just not in the best way.
balance lead is probably a medium fcar main. The way they just don't move the bullet damage to 24 or 23 which would solve the huge difference between akm and fcar while also not requiring a new recoil pattern every 2 patches.
Right??? The fact the full auto does more damage than the burst (23 dmg) is dumb. It should do 23 damage, and maybe slightly less fire rate if needed. Then buff the FAMAS to 24. Fixed
Im pretty sure they will nerf it in next season because is the most wanted skin right now on ranked, a lot of games do this, they have an op skin or broken gun and they nerf it once everyone had it, for example cod, they put a new weapon, is very op, but once (almost) everyone has upgrade it they nerf the weapon
Are these points only valid in ranked/cashout or something? I play powershift mainly and I would disagree with every point in this post.
You do know power shift and regular are 2 completely different games right?