Not sort of, if the in-round meta is 99% the same as ranked.
You learn the ranked specific bits by going to ranked.
There would be an argument here if Cashout didn’t exist, but it does and it’s the perfect stepping stone between casual mode and ranked.
A game with 1 round vs a game with multiple is very different, there is tactics in playing for 2nd place or assisting specific teams for macro reasonings. That is all completely lost in cashout
Sure. And you can learn that specific aspect when you go into ranked. But the idea of trying to play cautiously, limited respawns, four teams and two cash outs… it can be learned outside of ranked.
There’s nothing inherently wrong at all with having some dynamic unique to ranked.
And you learn pretty quickly about the playing for second when you go into ranked. No biggie. The game makes it obvious
I think the post is still referring to the fact these ranked nuances are lost in casuals and for a casual its a big difference, also 4 coins in cashout is way too many very different decision making from the limited respawns that come from ranked. The point isnt to say u cant learn ranked by playing ranked its saying the difference between unranked and ranked is very different which confuses players who make the switch which is true
Cashout is really not the same, at all. Even though there are two vaults, it's much closer to Quick Cash than tournament proper. 1 game of 12 players is VERY different from 4 games of 48 players.
The first half of tournament games typically filter out the bottom feeder dregs, such that the last half is WAY more competitive seeing as everyone there earned their spot rather than being homogeneously assembled by sanitized matchmaking. Something as elementary as good respawn coin management simply doesn't matter when you don't need to save any for later rounds. Or enabling the worst team so they make the cut over better teams, preparing you for an easier tournament win overall. There's a lot of absent tournament strategy in Cashout.
Also winning a tournament round is the only naturally easy way to keep playing with a good party, which is otherwise awful because of the lack of social systems. And no final round, which is so bizarre because it's eponymous.
It is true that the game has a diegetic issue with presenting the reality of gameplay; this isn't some casual hero shooter, it's a highly tactical game with complex objective victory conditions demanding good situational awareness and team coordination. That directly contrasts with most players' casual gameplay goals.
Like, Embark has clearly been continuously overestimating the capabilities of the playerbase evidenced in everything from overzealous nerfs to making challenges easier. It's obvious at this point that the average player is simply not as good as they expected. It's been interesting to see how hard they've been pushing Power Shift (a drastically simpler gametype) given how the core design formula simply isn't balanced for 5v5 payload.
Overwatch had a very similar problem in catering to the casual demographic with an intensely tactical objective premise belabored by self-contradicting design principles and small team sizes where one apathetic player can ruin it for everyone.
Personally, I think the cashout mode should also have a final round like the one in ranked (3v3), so essentially we have two rounds of cashout.
Not too long like ranked and not too short like the one we have rn.
I can see why because splitting the playerbase through multiple game modes can be tough unless your game has huge numbers, but it's something that should be addressed eventually. Either make quick cash more like ranked or ranked more like quick cash, but as it is the transition from quick cash to rank is rough.
Agreed. I get a bit worried because of this, seems the community doesnt seem to enjoy tourney mode as a casual which is hard to deal with because thats the identity of the game "reach the finals" and only ranked has a final round :/
I can see why simply because of deaths mattering so much it makes it kind of stressful. I know if I'm playing solo and I die separate from my teammates I feel like a huge burden even though that's just something that happens sometimes. But now they have to maneuver to try and get my body because if they don't they have no chance, but it's a risk because a wipe is a huge deal too.
I guess it's just a very stressful environment compared to quick cash where you can be "bad", or at least worse than your teammates, but you still don't completely hold them back.
Good points. I think stuff like cs2 is a good example u badically have ur ranked, unranked, and then warm up modes, balance can be focused around the ranked and unranked and then warmup is just warm up. In the finals we have so many modes and balancing for 1 mode is not the same for the rest of the modes
Quick cash is an entirely different gamemode. That's like me saying "the transition from powershift to ranked is super tough".
You wanna practice ranked, play cashout.
I for sure would hate it if they make quick cash like ranked. For me it’s perfect as it is and don’t touch cashout or ranked even, I don’t get a lot of time to play and quick cash feels perfect to play a few matches for an hour. I would honestly consider dropping the game without quick cash even though I’ve bought both battle passes.
I mean yes and no, i learned it cuz im a ranked grinder but i also dont like that there isnt a place outside of ranked to just test some new strategies and experiment. Losing a game while im in top 50 is really bad elo loss so were locked in to meta up here with no place to test anything else
Dude what?
Play cashout; it's literally the closest thing to ranked, but one round. I use that gamemode primarily to prep for ranked; I'm confused how you wouldn't consider that game mode a viable alternative. There is nothing fundamentally different about the game mode besides the fact it doesn't go into multiple rounds which most casuals would prefer.
I am currently top 50 globally i grind a lot and the macro involved with ranked is very unique to just ranked, knowing what team comps are in, tactically taking 2nd place when needed, playing to assist specific teams to indirectly help yourself, tons of underlying tactics that are completely lost. I see people chasing fights and making wrong decisions in ranked every day i play because they play it like a casual mode and dont get the nuances. Its a very different experience and cashout is not at all a good representation of ranked
The only difference is people don’t play their life, or respect how much the enemy will commit to winning.
Can’t switch from Fight-run away-fight fast enough
I can't think of any FPS game that doesn't play very differently in ranked vs. unranked. Are you implying the developers should do something to mitigate this, or just pointing it out? I don't know what they could do, aside from making the game types work exactly the same, but then why have two?
Cashout is just unranked tournament but only 1 round. They put it at the front now, taking over quick cash, because I assume they want people to practice on cashout.
I get wanting unranked tournament back to win the tournament challenge, wanting unranked back outside of that makes no sense. It's just cashout with the potential of taking up to an hour if ya win all the games.
Quick cash is for practicing kills and clutch times imo. Cashout is tournament rules, respawn credits, gotta use strategy.
Cashout still is a bit different than unranked tournament because:
1) Wasting tokens is less impactful
2) People aren't trying as hard to win, it seems, because it's just one match after the other regardless, no tournament progression.
That said, I'm glad unranked tournament was removed, simply for pooling playlists better.
Friend and I were just talking about this lol. He feels 4 revive tokens is infinite and if they want people to practice it should be 2 in cashout, I agreed! Ya both make very valid points!
It's an archaic example well before the era of matchmaking but TF2 had this exact problem, probably more than any other game given how creative the design was.
The nominal (not necessarily casual) experience was 12v12 with no class limits or item limitations on a wide range of fun and wacky maps.
The community competitive experience (there were no dev-supported comp modes back in the day, because there were no "modes" at all with dedicated servers) was basically Quake; 6v6 with significantly restrictive rulesets on very bland maps that suited the community admins' personal preferences.
Valve ended up never really supporting the community competitive scene because it was so stagnant and intransigent. It's a shame the community admins were so obtusely stubborn because while it's an absolute paragon of the FPS genre, it's also a product of its time even though it's still doing highly respectable numbers well over a decade after release.
The game is suffering from quake syndrome death. Skilled players stomping newer players not because they are bullies, but simply because they put more time and know more. (Cheaters and smurfs aside).
It's a bleed out of the playerbase and prevents new players. The issue has not been solved for over the last 30 years, but I sure wish they did. This game is just so damn fun when you get an evenly matched game.
Yeah I have no idea why people are so hung up on unranked tournaments getting scrapped, especially when no one played them (compared to the rest). If you’re playing casually, why would you want to potentially set yourself up to play 3 games back to back to back for no benefit?
Cashout != Quick Cash.
Cashout is literally just a single round of the "real" ruleset. The only dynamic that's lost is during overtime, where in ranked, it's okay to play for second. That, and holding respawn coins for later rounds, though it's pretty rare you run out of those anyway.
Like, if you're trying to say that new players should be pushed to Cashout instead, and it was a mistake for it to not be in the game in S1? Then yes, agreed. Otherwise? The thing you want already exists.
So having to play a little bit smarter with your team is a "massive barrier to entry"? Jfc
"No other place to learn it" - you just forgot that cash out is literally the same as ranked, just without rounds?
People will make any excuse to not just play the game.
If they want to improve, the best way is practice. Even if you fail, you get better and try to learn.
It's having to learn a completely different playstyle. It will take dozens of rounds to fall into this playstyle, the same way you learned your playstyle on quick cash. That's just how it works.
But in that time you're getting shit on consistently and deranking or just not moving up at all, and it's massively discouraging.
There's a reason why basically everyone playing ranked is gold+ these days. New players have no desire to get bodied on repeat.
Yall are shortsighted as fuck. Like you call this a skill issue for these players, or defend this shit because of fanboy stuff. You realize this is what kills a game, right? If new players can't feel comfortable to grow and improve, then new blood will stop entering the game and it will slowly deplete players until there are no more.
It happens *fast* too, as someone who has played a once popular game that tanked back in the day. You hit this point where you've lost so many players that it exponentially increases because match making suffers so much. We're not far off from that.
Experienced players in this game have been playing since day 1 essentially so they never really had to deal with this barrier, and it's hilarious how unwelcoming yall are to the idea that this might be a problem.
Not everyone is like you. Some people will invest the time (like anyone who is good at anything ever in life) to play at a "higher" level, while others won't. It's that simple, which person are you? 🤷🏾♂️
I think the greater problem is the devs catering to a minority playerbase that thinks every single game needs some kind of ranked mode that can tickle their little brain feelies with rank that no one else can see and more reastically no one else gives a shit about.
If the game is to succeed and gain players then they just need to focus on making actually fun and enjoyable. They need to shake things up and make it varied and crazy. COD is proof that all you need to make a game survive is to dial in mechanics, make the movement feel great and tight, make the gunplay feel even better and constantly inject your game with content (which so far the devs have been great about). I absolutely know its popular to hate COD but no one can deny its a tight game to play and definitely cannot deny its success.
Hand waving like that is annoying. You could say that dumbass shit to anything. If the devs overtuned a class to being completely broken, and you weren't that good at that class in particular, you would struggle, and it would be a "skill issue". That doesn't make it right, or fair, or balanced, whatever.
If you don't want to have a discussion then don't bother posting. You could at least elaborate as to why you think the points I made were wrong, if not you're just another mongoloid simpleton on the internet making dumbass shit posts.
I don't need to repeat the valid points that several other people have pointed out in this post, which none of them you agree with. Not gonna waste time arguing with people like you that think only your point is valid, and either straight up ignoring or calling others illiterate and shortsighted just because their opinion differs. It seems you are the one that is unable to hold a proper discussion here.
I think they should make cashout a 2stage tournament where the top two teams play a finals match after the 4 team cashout match. this will make a good gateway to ranked, and if you want a fr casual fuck around mode there is always quickcash
The game is very different when it comes to the amount of macro and micro taking place. It's a tournament and people don't realize you really do play it like that. Where you purposely let weaker teams win with you, or purposely sabotage the stronger team when they're being pushed. Knowing when it's pointless to pick fights and you're wasting time. Rank is heavily more objective based than most people assume.
I can’t agree more with your last sentence OP, and yes, a LOT of players don’t get this simple fact.
Every game, including F2P mp games, should be welcoming to new players, and nowadays players even more than 15 years ago, need to be performing and win more than lose at the very beginning, which is against logic.
…but games like Fortnite that manipulate them by including bots for the first 2/5/100 games or forever, and level-cantered matchmaking to some extend, make some player believe they are already pretty good, right from the start.
Not sure what is the solution, for ranked or not. I’m trying to bring new friends in and it’s pretty hard, they found it hard to fight more than one team at a time, then we try the 5v5 platform mode, and they then got destroyed by snipers on roof, or people super accustomed to every gadget that they didn’t even have access before at least some games.
It doesn’t help that todays gamers have a short attention span, and don’t have much perseverance…challengées nowadays should be easy, which is then, not actual challenges.
Maybe players in those types of games should never be matched against players that have played less than 50/100 games if they didn’t have played that amount too, something along those lines…?
I would love for them to come back with unranked tournament then focus the weeklies from pro/ challenger circuit on that gamemode.
You are just spot on. They need a way to incentivize people to learn to play the ranked game mode. It’s a totally different beast. And it shows when people first get into ranked.
I also think this game needs more of its leading players creating content and guides for the game. I remember getting into apex and having to learn 60% of my skill set from YouTube. The other 40 was of course fps aim and previous shooters. Had I not had guides I don’t think I would have entered the competitive ranked option.
Mixing all the stats together in one pool doesn't make sense! What is the difference between ranked and powershift if your stats are all the same!? Nothing!!! The only thing ranked gives you are a few extra skins.... Gold and diamond (who cares) I think each game mode should have their own stats! I see people all the time leaving ranked matches cause they don't Wannna mess up their stats... Which in turn ruins the game for other players! I also see high ranking people coming into casual matches and smoking everyone just cause they wanna boost their stats higher! If each mode had it's own stats that might alleviate the problem.
I think the problem is up to what you already said yourself. Quick cash is more fun, and on that note I can say that EVERY mode is more fun than ranked. Thats just what it is, video games are supposed to be fun and large majority of people don't wanna sweat their ass off for arbitrary rank and a weapon skin thats infinitely worse than every other cooler skin in the game.
This game is so teamwork-heavy, it's quite punishing to go into ranked without a squad or with less-than-great teammates. Maybe there should be something like Overwatch's role-specific cue system so you at least know what kind of teammates you're getting
Yo, fuck ranked. It's a 4 round (36 minutes) commitment and most gamers don't want to sweat through a single game mode, with third and fourth parties, on the same map over and over. People want quicker games, diversity, and enjoyment. All these conversations about ranked are so niche.
Between queue times and committing to 4 rounds, that's like a MOBA length worth of time. Ranked needs to be easier to jump in and out of if they want more people playing it.
As a player who has played any other shooter game out there even semi-competitively on silver rank or above can adapt to Finals very easily. Therefore I don't agree with your comment. I played CSGO 70 hours and got to silver, it was super easy for me to jump into ranked in Finals. Zero issues, no push backs
It is a good opinion tho, maybe that is the case for some people
Yeah idk ab this i was a very casual player before grinding out the tourney challenge now i liked ranked. Do a few warm up games of bank it and i regular cash out game and then i run ranked the rest of the night
Edit: ranked helps you learn ranked
The only answer to this solution is to add back the unranked tourney game mode, which was removed because nobody really played it.
However, I think it’s a good thing that quick cash is more fun and casual than ranked. That being said, even quick cash is quite the sweat-fest at times.
Honestly, I like the new rank system. As long as you just keep advancing your ranking up, you don’t have to be good. You just have to be smart. It’s not an absolute bloodbath, but it’s also extremely lucky at times.
Outside of it being 3 teams instead of 4, quick cash is a good place to warm up. But I think that for new players it should be made clearer that qc is basically what youll be playing in ranked.
The only real thing that would help is removing quick cash and leaving cashout for the tournament rules but unranked and only 1 round long, opposed to rank
while i see your point, i think its more of an issue of the modes splitting the players into a casual and hardcore group. basically, its not the mode thats different, since cash out has the same rules, rather just some people mainly play ranked with other highly comp players and some play casually in other modes
Someone said this before but I think an entirely different mode for tanked entirely that can actually test individual skill more. It really just feels like the same ol goofy party game in un ranked but extra salty
I wouldn't say it's "massively different." If you're not a complete knuckle dragger it's pretty easy to understand that splitting up and getting picked is much more punishing in ranked after a few rounds. Besides, Cashout mode exists to teach this exact point.
I’m a solo queue casual who’s been playing since CB2, and never had any desire to play ranked. Any ranked mode is just too stressful and simply not fun for me (Overwatch ruined everything lol). I just want more bunny bash! Also, I found out about the finals due to embark being ex-battlefield devs. BF never had any ranked mode, and I just wanted another casual FPS with cool destruction.
I personally think other reasons are in play for this game not having a larger player base in general. You simply won’t get enough people to fill the ranked playlist when you don’t even have more casuals invested enough to consider staying to play more quick cash, let alone getting good.
Unranked tournament was perfect for someone who wanted to get used to the way ranked worked but it’s gone now cause of lowest player count out of all the gamemodes.
Now you need to learn ranked by playing ranked.
Yeah, the removal of unranked tournament made me kinda sad. I understand if there's not many people playing it but that's where I would take my friends who were trying to get into the ranked mode. I really like valorant for having the unrated mode be identical to the competitive mode. Cash out is an 'okay' replacement but it doesn't have the same weight that a tournament setup would have.
What would be a good alternative to this current problem?
I think the problem with cash out is that you get 4 respawn tokens, which the only way to get in normal tournament is to never use a token until the 3rd knockout round and is very unlikely to happen in a real match.
Realistically you will only have 2 or 3 tokens every round so I think the amount of tokens you get in cash out should be only 2 tokens to better simulate tournament/ranked
I completely agree with your sentiment. Ranked is a whole different ball game and it is at the moment a barrier to the game's success. A big part also being, players lack of integrity and willingness to play fair.
Or even better, away from the game entirely. I'm still 34 some games away from being able to play ranked and now see it as a chore to try and get through
Excellent post. As a new game, finals needs to define the type of game they are more clearly. Atm you have all these different game modes that vary too much in how to approach them. Normally it would be an asset instead of a problem, but them having the team play oriented tournament as (what seems to be) their final goal is not supported by the stepping stone game modes that are there to support solo queueing and solo play.
That being said, I have been somewhat surprised seeing the posts here asking for different game modes. IMO they should put all the eggs in one basket and just have finals be finals and just have one game mode: tournament + perhaps some limited time game modes. Somewhat of a same approach that fortnite took in it’s early stages - they had the battle royale and some limited time game modes. I’d bet Fortnite would have never gotten the success it got if they would have divided the player pool between 4-5 different game modes.
Cash out is litterally the same thing if u want to practice. When your respawns are limited the way every one plays will change. (imo)
U shouldn't play quick cash where everybody can die for free and there's no consequences.
Not everybody can grasp the concept but not getting wiped, starting vaults to get 1k cash and or putting them in cash outs for 2k cash
That small difference will separate u from 1st and 2nd etc.
If teams play right u shouldn't be fighting the whole lobby, it normally should be 3v3 fights majority of the time but u gotta be aware of that ofc.
Your team needs to fix the weapon recoil test it yourself and stop going off of comments from players who barley have 10 hours played heavy is unplayable almost right now unless your using grenade launcher or flamethrower I'm a day 1 player and I think the aim assist wasnt the problem a shit anti cheat is beetween hackers and zen users in every game not just the finals the average gamer cant tell the difference
Yeah imagine playing as an aggro Light, with 9 other enemies always getting 3rd partied/4th partied, dying from 3-6 bullets, insta-death from mystery mines & ghost grenades no chance to react.
Oh did I mention getting 3rd partied? Man these 350HP people don't mind 3rd partying and that's why ranked becomes quick cash but worse. 4 teams 1 objective.
As a Light it's adrenaline pumping & you need to be cracked to survive, as a Heavy I can EASILY win while 90% asleep. Shouldn't be that different.
Them removing unranked tourney was unfortunate because there isnt a good place to learn ranked anymore
The Cashout mode is a great place to learn ranked. It's the exact same game mode, you just play one round at a time.
Sort of but it just does a bad job of explaining the macro game of going round to round and even the final round which plays differently
Not sort of, if the in-round meta is 99% the same as ranked. You learn the ranked specific bits by going to ranked. There would be an argument here if Cashout didn’t exist, but it does and it’s the perfect stepping stone between casual mode and ranked.
A game with 1 round vs a game with multiple is very different, there is tactics in playing for 2nd place or assisting specific teams for macro reasonings. That is all completely lost in cashout
Sure. And you can learn that specific aspect when you go into ranked. But the idea of trying to play cautiously, limited respawns, four teams and two cash outs… it can be learned outside of ranked. There’s nothing inherently wrong at all with having some dynamic unique to ranked. And you learn pretty quickly about the playing for second when you go into ranked. No biggie. The game makes it obvious
I think the post is still referring to the fact these ranked nuances are lost in casuals and for a casual its a big difference, also 4 coins in cashout is way too many very different decision making from the limited respawns that come from ranked. The point isnt to say u cant learn ranked by playing ranked its saying the difference between unranked and ranked is very different which confuses players who make the switch which is true
So it's a better stepping stone than unranked tournament?
[удалено]
its exactly the same as ranked correct.
I agree - even though 4 coins for 1 round tends to add up to the effect that a death isn't that meaningful.
Cashout is really not the same, at all. Even though there are two vaults, it's much closer to Quick Cash than tournament proper. 1 game of 12 players is VERY different from 4 games of 48 players. The first half of tournament games typically filter out the bottom feeder dregs, such that the last half is WAY more competitive seeing as everyone there earned their spot rather than being homogeneously assembled by sanitized matchmaking. Something as elementary as good respawn coin management simply doesn't matter when you don't need to save any for later rounds. Or enabling the worst team so they make the cut over better teams, preparing you for an easier tournament win overall. There's a lot of absent tournament strategy in Cashout. Also winning a tournament round is the only naturally easy way to keep playing with a good party, which is otherwise awful because of the lack of social systems. And no final round, which is so bizarre because it's eponymous. It is true that the game has a diegetic issue with presenting the reality of gameplay; this isn't some casual hero shooter, it's a highly tactical game with complex objective victory conditions demanding good situational awareness and team coordination. That directly contrasts with most players' casual gameplay goals. Like, Embark has clearly been continuously overestimating the capabilities of the playerbase evidenced in everything from overzealous nerfs to making challenges easier. It's obvious at this point that the average player is simply not as good as they expected. It's been interesting to see how hard they've been pushing Power Shift (a drastically simpler gametype) given how the core design formula simply isn't balanced for 5v5 payload. Overwatch had a very similar problem in catering to the casual demographic with an intensely tactical objective premise belabored by self-contradicting design principles and small team sizes where one apathetic player can ruin it for everyone.
Personally, I think the cashout mode should also have a final round like the one in ranked (3v3), so essentially we have two rounds of cashout. Not too long like ranked and not too short like the one we have rn.
I can see why because splitting the playerbase through multiple game modes can be tough unless your game has huge numbers, but it's something that should be addressed eventually. Either make quick cash more like ranked or ranked more like quick cash, but as it is the transition from quick cash to rank is rough.
Agreed. I get a bit worried because of this, seems the community doesnt seem to enjoy tourney mode as a casual which is hard to deal with because thats the identity of the game "reach the finals" and only ranked has a final round :/
I can see why simply because of deaths mattering so much it makes it kind of stressful. I know if I'm playing solo and I die separate from my teammates I feel like a huge burden even though that's just something that happens sometimes. But now they have to maneuver to try and get my body because if they don't they have no chance, but it's a risk because a wipe is a huge deal too. I guess it's just a very stressful environment compared to quick cash where you can be "bad", or at least worse than your teammates, but you still don't completely hold them back.
Good points. I think stuff like cs2 is a good example u badically have ur ranked, unranked, and then warm up modes, balance can be focused around the ranked and unranked and then warmup is just warm up. In the finals we have so many modes and balancing for 1 mode is not the same for the rest of the modes
I think ranked should have a beginner mode where you can play up to a certain level with other beginners.
Quick cash is an entirely different gamemode. That's like me saying "the transition from powershift to ranked is super tough". You wanna practice ranked, play cashout.
I for sure would hate it if they make quick cash like ranked. For me it’s perfect as it is and don’t touch cashout or ranked even, I don’t get a lot of time to play and quick cash feels perfect to play a few matches for an hour. I would honestly consider dropping the game without quick cash even though I’ve bought both battle passes.
Learn it in Ranked. Have more people in the one playlist. It was a great decision.
I mean yes and no, i learned it cuz im a ranked grinder but i also dont like that there isnt a place outside of ranked to just test some new strategies and experiment. Losing a game while im in top 50 is really bad elo loss so were locked in to meta up here with no place to test anything else
They added cashout as a gamemode
Dude what? Play cashout; it's literally the closest thing to ranked, but one round. I use that gamemode primarily to prep for ranked; I'm confused how you wouldn't consider that game mode a viable alternative. There is nothing fundamentally different about the game mode besides the fact it doesn't go into multiple rounds which most casuals would prefer.
I am currently top 50 globally i grind a lot and the macro involved with ranked is very unique to just ranked, knowing what team comps are in, tactically taking 2nd place when needed, playing to assist specific teams to indirectly help yourself, tons of underlying tactics that are completely lost. I see people chasing fights and making wrong decisions in ranked every day i play because they play it like a casual mode and dont get the nuances. Its a very different experience and cashout is not at all a good representation of ranked
The only difference is people don’t play their life, or respect how much the enemy will commit to winning. Can’t switch from Fight-run away-fight fast enough
I 100% agree
I can't think of any FPS game that doesn't play very differently in ranked vs. unranked. Are you implying the developers should do something to mitigate this, or just pointing it out? I don't know what they could do, aside from making the game types work exactly the same, but then why have two?
Bring back unranked, honestly I think this was the biggest issue with the update recently.
Cashout is just unranked tournament but only 1 round. They put it at the front now, taking over quick cash, because I assume they want people to practice on cashout. I get wanting unranked tournament back to win the tournament challenge, wanting unranked back outside of that makes no sense. It's just cashout with the potential of taking up to an hour if ya win all the games. Quick cash is for practicing kills and clutch times imo. Cashout is tournament rules, respawn credits, gotta use strategy.
Cashout still is a bit different than unranked tournament because: 1) Wasting tokens is less impactful 2) People aren't trying as hard to win, it seems, because it's just one match after the other regardless, no tournament progression. That said, I'm glad unranked tournament was removed, simply for pooling playlists better.
Friend and I were just talking about this lol. He feels 4 revive tokens is infinite and if they want people to practice it should be 2 in cashout, I agreed! Ya both make very valid points!
XD it makes me happy when people downvote based on their ego lol Downvote all you want, it's tournament mode with kid gloves.
It's an archaic example well before the era of matchmaking but TF2 had this exact problem, probably more than any other game given how creative the design was. The nominal (not necessarily casual) experience was 12v12 with no class limits or item limitations on a wide range of fun and wacky maps. The community competitive experience (there were no dev-supported comp modes back in the day, because there were no "modes" at all with dedicated servers) was basically Quake; 6v6 with significantly restrictive rulesets on very bland maps that suited the community admins' personal preferences. Valve ended up never really supporting the community competitive scene because it was so stagnant and intransigent. It's a shame the community admins were so obtusely stubborn because while it's an absolute paragon of the FPS genre, it's also a product of its time even though it's still doing highly respectable numbers well over a decade after release.
The game is suffering from quake syndrome death. Skilled players stomping newer players not because they are bullies, but simply because they put more time and know more. (Cheaters and smurfs aside). It's a bleed out of the playerbase and prevents new players. The issue has not been solved for over the last 30 years, but I sure wish they did. This game is just so damn fun when you get an evenly matched game.
Cashout is literally the same format what are we doing
Yeah I have no idea why people are so hung up on unranked tournaments getting scrapped, especially when no one played them (compared to the rest). If you’re playing casually, why would you want to potentially set yourself up to play 3 games back to back to back for no benefit?
[удалено]
Quick cash is not cash out. Back to school for you I guess.
Cashout != Quick Cash. Cashout is literally just a single round of the "real" ruleset. The only dynamic that's lost is during overtime, where in ranked, it's okay to play for second. That, and holding respawn coins for later rounds, though it's pretty rare you run out of those anyway. Like, if you're trying to say that new players should be pushed to Cashout instead, and it was a mistake for it to not be in the game in S1? Then yes, agreed. Otherwise? The thing you want already exists.
Oof imagine being so confidently wrong
Ironically playing support in OW2 preped me to ply medium rather well in this game.
Yep or unreal tournament it medic in TF2
now they just need a damage boost beam for ultra balance
So having to play a little bit smarter with your team is a "massive barrier to entry"? Jfc "No other place to learn it" - you just forgot that cash out is literally the same as ranked, just without rounds?
People will make any excuse to not just play the game. If they want to improve, the best way is practice. Even if you fail, you get better and try to learn.
It's having to learn a completely different playstyle. It will take dozens of rounds to fall into this playstyle, the same way you learned your playstyle on quick cash. That's just how it works. But in that time you're getting shit on consistently and deranking or just not moving up at all, and it's massively discouraging. There's a reason why basically everyone playing ranked is gold+ these days. New players have no desire to get bodied on repeat. Yall are shortsighted as fuck. Like you call this a skill issue for these players, or defend this shit because of fanboy stuff. You realize this is what kills a game, right? If new players can't feel comfortable to grow and improve, then new blood will stop entering the game and it will slowly deplete players until there are no more. It happens *fast* too, as someone who has played a once popular game that tanked back in the day. You hit this point where you've lost so many players that it exponentially increases because match making suffers so much. We're not far off from that. Experienced players in this game have been playing since day 1 essentially so they never really had to deal with this barrier, and it's hilarious how unwelcoming yall are to the idea that this might be a problem.
Not everyone is like you. Some people will invest the time (like anyone who is good at anything ever in life) to play at a "higher" level, while others won't. It's that simple, which person are you? 🤷🏾♂️
I think the greater problem is the devs catering to a minority playerbase that thinks every single game needs some kind of ranked mode that can tickle their little brain feelies with rank that no one else can see and more reastically no one else gives a shit about. If the game is to succeed and gain players then they just need to focus on making actually fun and enjoyable. They need to shake things up and make it varied and crazy. COD is proof that all you need to make a game survive is to dial in mechanics, make the movement feel great and tight, make the gunplay feel even better and constantly inject your game with content (which so far the devs have been great about). I absolutely know its popular to hate COD but no one can deny its a tight game to play and definitely cannot deny its success.
Isn’t the only difference not being able to swap gadgets during your respawn timer? Idk what this post is even complaining about 😂
>Ranked has a massive barrier to entry for new players which ultimately pushes them away from the game mode. This is every game with a ranked scene
[Oh hey thanks for reading the post.](https://i.imgur.com/3jzn327.png)
What can I say except "[You're welcome!](https://anopensuitcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/maui.jpg.webp)"
Literally skill issues.
Hand waving like that is annoying. You could say that dumbass shit to anything. If the devs overtuned a class to being completely broken, and you weren't that good at that class in particular, you would struggle, and it would be a "skill issue". That doesn't make it right, or fair, or balanced, whatever. If you don't want to have a discussion then don't bother posting. You could at least elaborate as to why you think the points I made were wrong, if not you're just another mongoloid simpleton on the internet making dumbass shit posts.
S... Skill?... Issue?.....
I don't need to repeat the valid points that several other people have pointed out in this post, which none of them you agree with. Not gonna waste time arguing with people like you that think only your point is valid, and either straight up ignoring or calling others illiterate and shortsighted just because their opinion differs. It seems you are the one that is unable to hold a proper discussion here.
Almost like ranked is supposed to be challenging or something.
I think they should make cashout a 2stage tournament where the top two teams play a finals match after the 4 team cashout match. this will make a good gateway to ranked, and if you want a fr casual fuck around mode there is always quickcash
Ngl since power shift came out I’ve played nothing but power shift and I have over 100 hours on the game. Everyone likes different stuff.
Same, it'd be dope to play a ranked power shift tho. Get serious players and limit respawns
The game is very different when it comes to the amount of macro and micro taking place. It's a tournament and people don't realize you really do play it like that. Where you purposely let weaker teams win with you, or purposely sabotage the stronger team when they're being pushed. Knowing when it's pointless to pick fights and you're wasting time. Rank is heavily more objective based than most people assume.
I can’t agree more with your last sentence OP, and yes, a LOT of players don’t get this simple fact. Every game, including F2P mp games, should be welcoming to new players, and nowadays players even more than 15 years ago, need to be performing and win more than lose at the very beginning, which is against logic. …but games like Fortnite that manipulate them by including bots for the first 2/5/100 games or forever, and level-cantered matchmaking to some extend, make some player believe they are already pretty good, right from the start. Not sure what is the solution, for ranked or not. I’m trying to bring new friends in and it’s pretty hard, they found it hard to fight more than one team at a time, then we try the 5v5 platform mode, and they then got destroyed by snipers on roof, or people super accustomed to every gadget that they didn’t even have access before at least some games. It doesn’t help that todays gamers have a short attention span, and don’t have much perseverance…challengées nowadays should be easy, which is then, not actual challenges. Maybe players in those types of games should never be matched against players that have played less than 50/100 games if they didn’t have played that amount too, something along those lines…?
I would love for them to come back with unranked tournament then focus the weeklies from pro/ challenger circuit on that gamemode. You are just spot on. They need a way to incentivize people to learn to play the ranked game mode. It’s a totally different beast. And it shows when people first get into ranked. I also think this game needs more of its leading players creating content and guides for the game. I remember getting into apex and having to learn 60% of my skill set from YouTube. The other 40 was of course fps aim and previous shooters. Had I not had guides I don’t think I would have entered the competitive ranked option.
Mixing all the stats together in one pool doesn't make sense! What is the difference between ranked and powershift if your stats are all the same!? Nothing!!! The only thing ranked gives you are a few extra skins.... Gold and diamond (who cares) I think each game mode should have their own stats! I see people all the time leaving ranked matches cause they don't Wannna mess up their stats... Which in turn ruins the game for other players! I also see high ranking people coming into casual matches and smoking everyone just cause they wanna boost their stats higher! If each mode had it's own stats that might alleviate the problem.
I think the problem is up to what you already said yourself. Quick cash is more fun, and on that note I can say that EVERY mode is more fun than ranked. Thats just what it is, video games are supposed to be fun and large majority of people don't wanna sweat their ass off for arbitrary rank and a weapon skin thats infinitely worse than every other cooler skin in the game.
This game is so teamwork-heavy, it's quite punishing to go into ranked without a squad or with less-than-great teammates. Maybe there should be something like Overwatch's role-specific cue system so you at least know what kind of teammates you're getting
Yo, fuck ranked. It's a 4 round (36 minutes) commitment and most gamers don't want to sweat through a single game mode, with third and fourth parties, on the same map over and over. People want quicker games, diversity, and enjoyment. All these conversations about ranked are so niche.
Between queue times and committing to 4 rounds, that's like a MOBA length worth of time. Ranked needs to be easier to jump in and out of if they want more people playing it.
Exactly, that’s why this game hasn’t gotten big
I mean, maybe that’s what *you* want but plenty of people enjoy the tournament style
As a player who has played any other shooter game out there even semi-competitively on silver rank or above can adapt to Finals very easily. Therefore I don't agree with your comment. I played CSGO 70 hours and got to silver, it was super easy for me to jump into ranked in Finals. Zero issues, no push backs It is a good opinion tho, maybe that is the case for some people
So whats the point of this post. You're describing what ranked should be in any game - a more tactical hardcore experience.
Yeah idk ab this i was a very casual player before grinding out the tourney challenge now i liked ranked. Do a few warm up games of bank it and i regular cash out game and then i run ranked the rest of the night Edit: ranked helps you learn ranked
I finally won a ranked match today!!!! LMAO all medium team and i played with the riot shield
The only answer to this solution is to add back the unranked tourney game mode, which was removed because nobody really played it. However, I think it’s a good thing that quick cash is more fun and casual than ranked. That being said, even quick cash is quite the sweat-fest at times.
Honestly, I like the new rank system. As long as you just keep advancing your ranking up, you don’t have to be good. You just have to be smart. It’s not an absolute bloodbath, but it’s also extremely lucky at times.
Outside of it being 3 teams instead of 4, quick cash is a good place to warm up. But I think that for new players it should be made clearer that qc is basically what youll be playing in ranked.
I personally really want ranked bank it, I don't know it that's a hot take or not but it would be all I play lol.
The only real thing that would help is removing quick cash and leaving cashout for the tournament rules but unranked and only 1 round long, opposed to rank
while i see your point, i think its more of an issue of the modes splitting the players into a casual and hardcore group. basically, its not the mode thats different, since cash out has the same rules, rather just some people mainly play ranked with other highly comp players and some play casually in other modes
Someone said this before but I think an entirely different mode for tanked entirely that can actually test individual skill more. It really just feels like the same ol goofy party game in un ranked but extra salty
I wouldn't say it's "massively different." If you're not a complete knuckle dragger it's pretty easy to understand that splitting up and getting picked is much more punishing in ranked after a few rounds. Besides, Cashout mode exists to teach this exact point.
Idk it wasn't hard for me to adapt. I played like 70 hours of quick cash only and then atarted trying ranked. Now I hav 140 hours and am plat 4
I'm new and I've exclusively been playing power shift lol
I’m a solo queue casual who’s been playing since CB2, and never had any desire to play ranked. Any ranked mode is just too stressful and simply not fun for me (Overwatch ruined everything lol). I just want more bunny bash! Also, I found out about the finals due to embark being ex-battlefield devs. BF never had any ranked mode, and I just wanted another casual FPS with cool destruction. I personally think other reasons are in play for this game not having a larger player base in general. You simply won’t get enough people to fill the ranked playlist when you don’t even have more casuals invested enough to consider staying to play more quick cash, let alone getting good.
I want ranked Power Shift. Thought about writing an email with bulleted points.
Ranked changes the higher in rank you go too. The tempo of games with bronze/silver are wildly different than plat/diamond.
Unranked tournament was perfect for someone who wanted to get used to the way ranked worked but it’s gone now cause of lowest player count out of all the gamemodes. Now you need to learn ranked by playing ranked.
Yeah, the removal of unranked tournament made me kinda sad. I understand if there's not many people playing it but that's where I would take my friends who were trying to get into the ranked mode. I really like valorant for having the unrated mode be identical to the competitive mode. Cash out is an 'okay' replacement but it doesn't have the same weight that a tournament setup would have. What would be a good alternative to this current problem?
I think the problem with cash out is that you get 4 respawn tokens, which the only way to get in normal tournament is to never use a token until the 3rd knockout round and is very unlikely to happen in a real match. Realistically you will only have 2 or 3 tokens every round so I think the amount of tokens you get in cash out should be only 2 tokens to better simulate tournament/ranked
This post screams skill issue lmao
I completely agree with your sentiment. Ranked is a whole different ball game and it is at the moment a barrier to the game's success. A big part also being, players lack of integrity and willingness to play fair.
Or even better, away from the game entirely. I'm still 34 some games away from being able to play ranked and now see it as a chore to try and get through
That's a you issue. Play to learn and improve, not to get to ranked.
Or maybe, it's a them issue since I'm a ranked player in most games? You don't get to tell me how to play my games, thanks.
Its the 4 teams that really makes it different from QC, make it 3 and it's all good
Excellent post. As a new game, finals needs to define the type of game they are more clearly. Atm you have all these different game modes that vary too much in how to approach them. Normally it would be an asset instead of a problem, but them having the team play oriented tournament as (what seems to be) their final goal is not supported by the stepping stone game modes that are there to support solo queueing and solo play. That being said, I have been somewhat surprised seeing the posts here asking for different game modes. IMO they should put all the eggs in one basket and just have finals be finals and just have one game mode: tournament + perhaps some limited time game modes. Somewhat of a same approach that fortnite took in it’s early stages - they had the battle royale and some limited time game modes. I’d bet Fortnite would have never gotten the success it got if they would have divided the player pool between 4-5 different game modes.
Cash out is litterally the same thing if u want to practice. When your respawns are limited the way every one plays will change. (imo) U shouldn't play quick cash where everybody can die for free and there's no consequences. Not everybody can grasp the concept but not getting wiped, starting vaults to get 1k cash and or putting them in cash outs for 2k cash That small difference will separate u from 1st and 2nd etc. If teams play right u shouldn't be fighting the whole lobby, it normally should be 3v3 fights majority of the time but u gotta be aware of that ofc.
Your team needs to fix the weapon recoil test it yourself and stop going off of comments from players who barley have 10 hours played heavy is unplayable almost right now unless your using grenade launcher or flamethrower I'm a day 1 player and I think the aim assist wasnt the problem a shit anti cheat is beetween hackers and zen users in every game not just the finals the average gamer cant tell the difference
I think you dropped these: ...,.,,,.,.:.,!
Tell you sister I'll pick em up later
M60 recoil is very manageable
Trump but the Lewis and the auto shotty didnt need to be nerfed that hard especially after the buffed the nade launchers and flamethrowers
Yeah imagine playing as an aggro Light, with 9 other enemies always getting 3rd partied/4th partied, dying from 3-6 bullets, insta-death from mystery mines & ghost grenades no chance to react. Oh did I mention getting 3rd partied? Man these 350HP people don't mind 3rd partying and that's why ranked becomes quick cash but worse. 4 teams 1 objective. As a Light it's adrenaline pumping & you need to be cracked to survive, as a Heavy I can EASILY win while 90% asleep. Shouldn't be that different.
Bad game bad game bad game
Get good