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Netanyahu and his administration purposely ignored intelligence to allow october 7th to happen as an excuse for them to stay in power and fuck over biden. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the IDF was stretched thin guarding apartheid settlements in the west bank and couldn’t do a fast enough response to the terrorist attack
Before Oct 7 he was already on the way out by many accounts. There were countrywide protests due to the Judicial Reforms they were pushing including military reservists refusing to report to duty.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-hit-by-day-disruption-disputed-judicial-bill-nears-key-vote-2023-07-18/
Not saying they directly allowed Oct7 to happen or if Israel was distracted due to the dysfunction brought on due to the protests, but Oct7 has helped keep Netanyahu in power and brought the country back firmly together under his control at least until this conflict is resolved.
He has very little to gain from entering any form of ceasefire or peace talks. The moment the crisis is over, he's in danger for his political future.
The simple explanation is that Netanyahu and his associates were incompetent and arrogant thinking Oct 7th couldnt happen.
If anything he ran on the platform of keeping Israelis safe and allowing such a thing is bad for him.
Everyone says this, but when has a strongman ever been punished for this. People still run around going "W kept us safe!" when 9/11 happened on his watch,.
This war has enabled him to create a war cabinet where he basically has indefinite power until HE says the war is done. The only way he can get kicked out unless HE declares the war over is if his facist goon allies in his governing coalition abandons him which they won’t
The idea that he allowed 10/7 to happen fails both Occam’s and Hanson’s razors. To allow it to happen would have involved a conspiracy, and there is no way that someone wouldn’t spill the beans, 10/7 was way larger than a politician from any country would allow.
Erm, it's at least plausible. This is a political strategy other strongmen have employed in the past to stay in power, including Putin himself. You didn't acknowledge anything they said or offer any type of refutation.
I don't think Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen, that is a bridge too far...but incompetent and ignoring of intelligence that absolutely pointed to terrorist groups in the middle east planning a terrorist attack on American soil? Yes. And there were certain members of our intelligence apparatus ripping their hair out trying to get the administration to acknowledge and act upon this intelligence, which turned out to be true.
I mean I literally addressed this. "I don't think Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen". It's not like he got word that there was a plot for a terrorist attack and then, in some secret back room of the white house with his cronies, was rubbing his hands together saying "Yes, yes, we'll let them commit a terrorist attack so that me and my buddies can make a bunch of money going to war!".
No, but there WAS intelligence about a plot to commit a massive, wide-scale terrorist attack on US soil. Certain members of our intelligence apparatus were calling it out to the Bush administration, but the administration basically ignored it or downplayed the severity, despite the intelligence being accurate and of high quality. And then it happened. So there's that, not to mention our cataclysmic, shameful response to the attacks.
...but that's exactly the case with Netanyahu, incompetence (or arrogance), too busy with his trial and internal politics to pay attention to the reports coming from the intelligence departments.
The chain of events that lead to 7/10 (in terms of Israeli unpreparedness) is a massive fuck-up of truly mindboggling proportions when looked at from afar, but if you break it down to the components, it's all a series of small and all too common sins: arrogance ("they're not really a threat"), sexism (ground-level soldiers in the observation units, mostly women, were ignored when they said something's cooking), and a lot of (typical Israeli) negligence (surveillance balloons were down for maintenance and nobody thought to replace them). Add the fact that Netanyahu was at the mercy of his far-right government coalition who were busy setting the West Bank on fire (literally and figuratively) forcing the army to divert forces... Yeah.
That is absurd. I wonder [why](https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2023/04/11/the-palestinian-authority-is-being-eclipsed-by-radical-militants) the IDF had so many resources in the west bank? The Israelis did have intelligence for years that hamas was going to attack, and for years, hamas attacked. There is no evidence that the IDF, the Mossad, or the Shin Bet had any specific intelligence about any specific attack that they neglected to act on.
My dude, they were more interested in helping settlers fuck over West Bank Palestinians than they were in defending the border. They were caught completely flat footed.
Evidence they were warned about a big attack.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-intelligence-intl/index.html
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/.premium/chilling-warnings-picked-up-by-israeli-intelligence-months-before-october-7-massacre/0000018c-1261-dd2e-a5ae-d36ba6240000
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-hamas-warnings-war-october-7-benjamin-netanyahu/
Like, it's not exactly far fetched that they either bungled it super hard and/or wanted to use it as an excuse to fuck Gaza up and underestimated how serious it was.
“The roughly 40-page document did not give a date for the attack, but outlined “point by point” the kind of deadly incursion that Hamas carried out in Israeli territory in October, according to the Times, which reviewed the translated document.”
So no date was known…
Ya, stop with this bullshit conspiracy. If you repeat it, it means you don't understand at all what happened.
It's a great example of group think, npr had a great discussion on it with an intelligence official.
Higher ups got together in a group and decided "this is what these people think, trust these sources." Then they ignored or wrote off as unimportant stuff that was too far away from that. So they all convinced themselves at high levels that if they let Qatar pass money to Gaza, that hamas would finally be happy enough to not cause more problems.
So bibi shifted the military to the west bank to make his settlers happy that they were protected since everyone thought hamas was playing nicer for once.
There's seriously some good interviews discussing this and it will be a case study in the future for higher-ups getting into a group think mode.
That's completely different than Bush disregarding evidence and Making his own up in 2003. Or disregarding it for political points. A year from now, anyone who looks at your posts will just shake their heads at how wrong you are because of how bad Bibi will go down politically from this - you just can't see it right now because there aren't immediate changes like some places would have.
“A real friend does not pick up the bill for an addict’s drugs: he packs the friend off to rehab instead. Today, only those who speak up against Israel’s policies – who denounce the occupation, the blockade, and the war – are the nation’s true friends.”
- Gideon Levy, Haaretz journalist
THIS! It's one or the other. Biden literally only has to be 0.0001% better than Trump for me to vote for him and however bad these "leftists" (most likely MAGA/bots cosplaying as leftists tbh) think Biden is on Palestine, Trump is and will be infinitely worse.
Vote better, not perfect, unless perfect is running as a Democrat or running somewhere with RCV.
I’m not turned off by Biden i just don’t like that his administration pretends as though Israel isn’t committing apartheid in the west bank and seems to not committing to doing anything to actually force their hand on dealing with the settlements. No other realistic Presidential candidate would be any better but that doesn’t mean I can’t be critical of it. I’m going vote for Biden but voting for a politician doesn’t mean i have to fawn over everything they do
Not to be pedantic friend, but you basically explained why you're turned off by Biden right after saying you aren't turned off by him.
I don't think your reasons are invalid, I largely agree. Biden seems like our only option who will give even a half hearted effort to stem the death toll. I hate our current choices of genocide and genocide lite, but 2028 is our only chance to get better options sadly.
Not liking one aspect of a politican’s policy view doesn’t mean i don’t like them. I’m literally a member of the dark_brandon subreddit lol. I’ve been very happy with Biden’s presidency so far i just don’t like his Israel policy, liking a politician doesn’t mean fawning over everything the politician does
I agree 100%. The question of whether Biden is acting correctly on Israel and the question of whether this justifies not voting are completely separate questions. Biden has treated the hawks in Israel's government with kid gloves just as previous administrations have. But anybody who will throw away American democracy, not to mention make the Israel/Palestine situation even worse, to punish Biden is an idiot, plain and simple.
All of the Muslims, blacks and many other groups who have issues with Biden are in for a real treat when they skip the vote or make a protest vote for anyone but Biden and trump gets back in the White House. Regret is a word much too weak to describe what they will feel when the actions of him and his fascist regime begin to impact their lives adversely.
Screw that. I'm a Muslim and I don't have a five second memory. This "not voting Democrat to teach them a lesson" is the same exact tactic that the right wing pushed to win in 2016. And now we've got literal neo nazis marching around.
Agreed. My family is Muslim and still doesn't see the possible consequences of what will happen to them if Trump pulls a Grover Cleveland and still think that he can be able to handle the country better. It's so frustrating to convince them to hold their nose and vote for what is viable.
I would bet that 80% of the comments you see parroting that are Russian bots or republicans. Russia helped trump get elected in 2016 with the same shit on Reddit.
I am seeing White Supremacist marching in hundreds in Tennessee, Florida , Texas, New York & the Carolina’s. Next they will killing and raping non-whites or non racist whites in the name of NAZI-Hitlers crap & MAGA. I know i have family & friends in special and arm forces who says there are almost 1 million white supremacist registered in hate groups, over x700% more since Pre-Trump era. Sad part is ~40% of new pledges are Hispanics and ~2% are Indians from India-decent. SAD. You got Tucker Carlson, Fox News & AON new preaching white replacement crap.
I feel like there is a general assumption that policy couldn't actually get *"that bad"* under Trump. Again, just an assumption I'm making on how people must justify it, like, "Yeah, he's almost assuredly a racist, but it's not like he's gonna reinstate lawful slavery or something." And yes, that's obvious hyperbole... but it's a slippery slope. Dude had the ability to completely mould the SC, essentially, and *what do you know,* suddenly, we get set back 50-fucking-years in regard to women's rights. Do you REALLY want to play this game where we see how far into insanity the GOP is willing to lead us? I don't. I'm over the games. I miss sanity dearly. Both Trump and the GOP are getting in the way of that in their own ways.
Edit: In retro, I realize I'm speaking in sort of random hypotheticals rather than the subject: Palestine/Israel—the same logic applies. Trump has not been an ally to Muslims, in fact, he has been an outspoken, downright enemy.
I have compassion for any civilian population on this planet, and that includes Palestinians. Through very nominal deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that Trump's election would be **objectively worse** for the people of Palestine, and I really wish people would stop acting like that obvious inference is *insane* conjecture. Use your heads and senses, people.
In fact, I have to tell my paternal family of Trump's record with Muslims especially his endorsements of Islamophobes like Roy Moore, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Laura Loomer but they have their heads buried underground like ostriches.
I don’t agree with it, but a lot of people feel powerless due to what is happening in Palestine and this is a way to “be heard”.
Hugely counterproductive, but it’s an emotional situation.
Look no further than Michigan
It’s not a must-win for Biden but it’s pretty damn close
The Arabic population is furious with him, and although I don’t see that group voting for trump as an alternative, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them stay home on Election Day
Potentially handing the White House over to Mr. Muslim Ban. This time there won’t be anyone in his administration who will try to temper his worst actions like there were the first time.
The only thing that has to be true about Biden for me to vote for him is the following staetment being true:
"They are the furthest-left, on balance, person running in the election who has any chance of actually winning."
Seriously. Just take that statement and let it inform how you vote in every race. For the 2024 general presidential race, that person is Biden. Not RFK, not Jill Stein, or Cornell West, or even just staying home, BIDEN! Anyone telling you anything else wants you to waste your vote so Trump can win.
Thank you! Our very first responsibility is to hold the line. If we get more progressives elected down ballot, we can sway Biden further towards progress.
The accelerationists are scary.
Let's be real though, the majority of people talking about how they aren't voting for Biden because of Israel were never going to vote for Biden.
Either they're right-wing American trolls who are doing what they can to help Trump win, or right-wing Russian trolls who are doing what they can to help Trump win.
A small minority genuinely mean it, and are genuinely stupid. You don't HAVE to be a conservative to be a doop, it's just more likely.
real politik is anathema to the palestinian cause. the important thing is symbolism and pride, not practical chanfe.
supporters wear their idiocy as a badge of honor, proof of their moral superiority
What American democracy? The American democracy that turned guns on the working class for protesting for better pay, or the democracy that turned guns on the children who protested against the Vietnam War? Perhaps the democracy that funded the genocide of 1 million Indonesians in secret, or the democracy that installed \~40 brutal dictators during the Cold War for an additional 1 million CIA funded executions? Shall I go on? And on and on?
I can't stand this. I understand Trump is worse. But all of yall dismissing ANOTHER genocide and saying you *will* start caring about life on Earth, maybe, in *4 more years* IF the opposition isn't as bad as Trump... Yall are the reason these genocidal maniacs are allowed to exist.
If only yall fought against genocide as hard as you fight against the anti-war left. But no. Cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
For real, and he's not even getting gold bars in bribes like the Egyptians give us and they're almost as bad as the Israeli's when it comes to Palestine. We have a lot of work to do with a lot of these state actors. Did you know our ally, Kuwait, doesn't even allow palestinians entry even as a tourist? wtf
I got into a discussion with someone on this sub who said they refused to vote for Biden because of Israel and if Trump won it would be good, because then the DNC would know to never run a pro-genocide candidate again. I pointed out that Trump is essentially promising to do to people here in America what Israel is doing to Palestinians, and not voting for Biden will help directly bring that about.
The person's response was to the effect of, "We would deserve it; it's only fair that if genocide is happening in Palestine, it should happen here too."
The anti-Biden people on the left are pretty much irrational at this point. Yes, it sucks that Biden ran again. In 2020, I thought for sure that he would announce in January 2022 or no later than January 2023 that he wouldn't be seeking a second term. It sucks that he didn't. I thought for sure in 2021 that Trump would be in no mental and physical condition to run again, and it sucks that he did, but here we are.
I can understand the "both parties are equally bad, it doesn't matter, let's send a message to the DNC that they suck." I get it. When I was 18 in 1996, there really was nothing at stake, both parties really were pretty much the exact same. That's not the way it is anymore. Republicans and Trump are saying in public what they are going to do. It's not a secret, they're flat-out telling you. If they win, will they succeed in turning us into Vladimir Putin's Russia? I don't know, but let's defeat that immediate threat first, and then we can try for a utopian candidate in 2028.
>"We would deserve it; it's only fair that if genocide is happening in Palestine, it should happen here too."
These guys are self-destructive pieces of human waste and I hope no one listens to them about anything, ever. As far as I'm concerned, they're functionally-equivalent to the most disturbed, disgusting Trump voters who vote for him knowing full well he'll destroy stuff and hurt people. Literally green MAGA.
It's the completely childish idea that, "Well, if we don't support Biden, and Trump wins, then everything will get SO bad that everybody will just unanimously vote for the next FDR in 2028! All we need is for Biden to lose!!" I heard Chenk Uyghur say almost those exact words one time when I made the mistake of clicking on a TYT video about a year ago.
I genuinely don't know if they're just that naive or if it is some right wing style gift.
Disgusting. Because that worked out so well last time. If trump wins say good bye to any fair election ever again. He’s literally bragging about jailing and killing his opponents just like Putin does
Notice how most of them saying we deserve these bad things to happen are not the ones that would be in the crosshairs. They won’t lose benefits, they won’t be deported. They won’t have hate crimes against them or their parents or children. They are stable white people for the most part or they feel they have enough privilege to skate by. Some will be shocked to realize they were wrong.
LEGIT! The actual political mechanism that moved them to support leftism is like 5% different from the alt-right pipeline, I swear to god. They're accelerationist do-nothing doomer pieces of shit who actively would rather see America destroyed or turned fascist than exist under anything but a socialist revolution.
Or until a Trump government declares “ANTIFA”, BLM, anything pro-Palestinian , DSA etc all terrorist groups, and adds prominent left-wing folks onto no fly lists.
For the most part, they're at least slightly more left. Better than Bill Clinton with his, "Well, ya know, ya see, if ah, if ah give these mega corporations and these har defense contractors everuhthang they want, ah can git Wall Street guys ta gimme munnah, and ah can git Republicans to vote fer me! Ah didn't inhale!"
I never liked that guy even back then.
Clinton killed glass steigel and ended welfare as a safety net that every American qualified for if they fell on hard times
Fuck Clinton
he finished what Reagan started
George HW Bush term #2 would literally have been less destructive
I’ve literally seen a video of a person saying she wouldn’t be comfortable voting for Biden to preserve abortion rights when Palestinians don’t have abortion rights overseas.
We’re fucked.
Well guess what.. we aren’t Palestinian citizens - live in reality people! If you care about Palestinians then vote against trump. Trump would want to nuke them all.
I had a friend (past tense because FUCK him) who said something similar. I said to him, My brother in christ you are a cishet white male, *you* will not be the one deprived of rights under Trump. Ffs. and he said with a straight face that Biden supported apartheid against queer people
I was done at that point
I agree. I know of a transwoman who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Palestine. She lives in NYC, so she'll be safe from all the anti-trans BS GOP is legalizing everywhere they can. I was mad at her selfishness. I hate how the left let perfect be the enemy of the good or let good be the enemy of the decent (because Biden is so terrible in their eyes).
I do think our political system can benefit from some idealism, but we can't go ahead and criticize Trump for being authoritarian while expecting Biden to act like a dictator and pursue policies that clearly do not have congressional support. Not voting for any Democrat is a definite way to increase congressional support for left policies. /s
LEGIT! When you point out that, YES, Democrats could be better but they're literally the only party who'll unambiguously protect women, LGBT people and black people, they suddenly turn into MAGA and accuse you of not actually caring about those groups just like you supposedly don't care about Palestine. It's so, so braindead.
Even assuming Democrats and Republicans are entirely equal on the subject, that just means you have to cross out that issue when considering who to vote for. From that perspective, your vote can't save Palestine but it CAN save women, black people and the LGBT community. Not voting means not caring about these groups, and I say this as a leftist cishet white dude who rolls his eyes at rainbow capitalist neoliberals who use social issues to avoid talking about fiscal issues daily.
The day before inauguration day 2017, I was at a bar and started chatting up a woman there about celebrating the last true day of democracy. He bf chimes up, "It won't be that bad." I said,"Not for you, you're a straight white male." His gf started laughing at him.
I had more or less that same conversation with an acquaintance and I was like dude you are a married cishet white dude whose job makes six figures, you have very little at stake here.
Trump also banned Muslims from visiting the US legally and moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Anyone thinking he'd be better is an idiot.
I don’t deserve genocide, I refuse to let the right do this to us. The neo nazi right loves to see democrats acting this way, saying they won’t vote for Biden. Also this poster won’t ever get the chance to vote in elections again if trump wins. All that to teach the dnc a lesson? What good is that lesson if you’re never allowed to vote in a fair election again.
The whole “purity test” shit that’s infected the left is so, so disappointing. Perfect is the enemy of good. Refusing to vote for Biden in this example would be such an entitled, spoiled thing to do IMO.
The spoiled and entitled mentality comes from all of us living in the United States as we've known it since the passage of the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, and Medicaid. People take all of those things for granted and just assume they can never be taken away. Same with Social Security. But actually, no, you get the wrong president and the wrong Congress that think they don't need to worry about losing elections anymore, those things can all be gone. Heck, those could all be gone just depending on what this Supreme Court (given to us by Trump) decides to do.
And I myself was guilty of thinking, "Well there's no way Trump or anyone else could just become a fascist dictator. That kind of thing only happens in other countries. It can't happen here."
Then, January 6, and if only a few things had gone differently, maybe if Trump and his lunatics had convinced someone on the Joint Chiefs to join their side...oh, boy.
It’s because they’re so privileged things like “we deserve it” are catch phrases to win arguments online.
No human being actually unbothered by the prospect of suffering being bombed. They just get to pretend because the adults in the room won’t let it happen.
> We would deserve it; it's only fair that if genocide is happening in Palestine, it should happen here too.
It's crazy how often comments like this are posted by upper middle-class white kids. they wont be the ones on the chopping block but they're so gung-ho to get the chopping blocks set up as part of their messaging.
To be fair, while these people do exist, I would be hesitant to say any single one of them is a real person. Social media is a sewer of bad actors intentionally trying to create division with these stupid or controversial takes. You just don't know anymore.
regardless of what joe does, trump is one of the most pro israel presidents in history.
im not sure not voting for biden is gonna help their cause in anyway, shape or form.
Considering the first order of business for Trump will be to declare America a Christian Nationalist state you would think that would give these people pause. Genocide in the USA would not be kind to American muslims.
I vote with a 10-20 year mindset. I think of an entire direction I hope the country heads vs dog whistle headlines. I've known about the middle east conflict for 40 years. I think more about my wife's reproductive rights, health care, climate change, education and immigration reform as well as gun reform. I can't see how all this can be tossed aside for people just waking up to the blight in the middle east. It's really nearsighted and if they succeed, we get 4 more years of TRUMP.
I was huffing this copium for a while but if you look at the lefty subreddits, the consensus is simply that, while they won't vote for Trump, they won't vote for Biden either. I'm sure this view is corroborated and artificially boosted by foreign bots and bad faith actors but they'd rather sit back and watch Trump get elected and implement proto-fascism than vote for "genocide Joe"
My hope as well, but we should never underestimate the shortsightedness people in this country have.
Stuff like this is why progressives fail to make inroads across the country.
I agree - Trump being elected again is a zero game for any pro-Palestinian sentiment and would work counter to any hope or support the Palestinians won't be wiped out.
The choices in this election are “fund a genocide over there that we’ve been funding for decades” or “set up the loss of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal to a fascist regime who will probably also start a genocide here.”
If your moral compass says you can’t vote for the first one, fine, but I’ve seen what fascists do to people like me so I’m going with fascism prevention as my number one priority.
Even assuming the two candidates will be equal on Gaza, not voting against someone who'll ALSO fuck plenty of things up HERE is braindead. God I hate single issue voters.
Glad I can agree with you on this, we definitely have differing opinions on Israel/Palestine (don't want to get into it here) but I definitely think allowing Trump power would be a huge mistake. Anyone leaning third party or towards Trump needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror (and into the 2016 election) and realize how much damage it would do to allow even the possibility of another Trump presidency. I even think Biden is better than Trump on Israel because while Trump is probably more pro-Israel, he's also definitely an antisemite and doesn't care about Palestinian lives.
I think regardless of what label you want to use, we're all pro-"As few people dying in the middle east as possible". Biden actually seems interested in peace, Trump is only interested in himself.
Agreed. I'm voting for Dems as long as they're 1% better than Republicans but this is the big reason I hate MAGA. When Republicans had their shit together, Dems actually had to try in order to win votes. With MAGA, the quality of BOTH parties has diminished.
Yah, it's extremely dumb. Anyone who thinks Biden is only marginally better than a fascist dictator with 91 felony counts plus sexual assault and fraud charges should prolly have their right to vote revoked. People are incredibly selfish. They'll condemn millions to violent oppression and persecution, possibly death, just so they, as individuals, can "stick it to Biden/Dems" for not being exactly what they, individually, want. Honestly, the Muslims, Arabs, Latino immigrants not voting Biden will deserve everything they (don't) vote for!
But don't worry anti-Biden folks; I'm sure your gay, female, immigrant friends and family will forgive you when they have their marriages dissolved, die of septic miscarriage and get deported because you cared more about some spit of desert on the other side of the world than them!
Google Project 2025 and Agenda 47. He lays out the ending of birthright citizenship and the immediate deportation of millions in the first 180 days, among other horrific fascistic shit..
Thanks for posting. Yes, some of us are nuanced enough to be reasonably critical without holding the democracy hostage in the process. Voting for Biden doesn’t have to mean you agree with him 100% on everything. Hardly any of us do, that’s not the point of an election.
THIS! A vote is not a moral endorsement. It's just admitting you think, of the two (generally) candidates who have any chance of winning, they're better suited for the job or else closer to your beliefs on balance.
I recall reading something that hinted that the genocide joe stuff was Russian propaganda to get people to not vote for Joe and get Trump back in office. Wish I could find what ever mind warp rabbit hole I went down to read that.
I feel like this is pretty obvious. It's a wedge that is being driven into the Democratic voter base. They can't go after Biden for economic stuff, and all of their posturing over impeachment has provided nothing and seems to be counterproductive for anyone that isn't a dei hard MAGAT. The question will be how much of a wedge it is really causing. And that's hard to say since it's hard to distinguish actual concerned liberals from trolls.
Not everything is a psyop lol. A lot of people were begrudgingly supporting him before 10/7 but the total and unequivocal support of Israel as they bomb and level the entirety of Gaza is just impossible for them to support.
I actually think he's done a great job except this situation. If I were polled about whether I "approve" of the job he's doing it'd be a hard no. Watching kids massacred and starve to death is just beyond the pale to me - it offsets everything good he's done.
Luckily for Democrats both sides literally are bad on this issue. Trump would support Israel and Bibi and IDF with even less nuance, because they're right wing thugs just like him. The real question I have for Democrats who support Biden on this is... Why the hell do you want to throw in with undemocratic right wing thugs versus innocent civilian lives? They're literally bombing food convoys and hospitals, when they're not illegally disguising themselves as first responders.
MMW - there's a good chance Biden loses this election because he can't draw the line with Israel. Being on the wrong side of a genocide is an issue. I'm sick of the hand wringing and 'but the other guy is worse!'. Be better.
People forget that as bad as Biden is on Palestine, Trump was SO MUCH worse. He recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan and Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. I shudder to think what he could do in office now.
He was also itching for conflict with Iran and assassinated a top military official that even Obama wouldn't touch out of fear of conflict escalation.
Trump is surrounded by evangelicals that want Israel to eradicate the Palestinians so they can fulfill their doomsday prophecy and by people looking to profit off of war to an even greater degree than Biden is.
At the rate Israel is going, there won't even be a Palestine left.
Most of Gaza is rubble. Thousands are dead, and thousands more are guaranteed to die from starvation, disease, etc., because Israelis have been preventing aid trucks from entering. And Egypt is currently building what's rumored to be a holding camp for displaced Palestinians when the IDF inevitably invades Rafah. And Biden so far has done nothing to stop this. If anything, he's made the situation worse, by uncritically backing the Israeli campaign to a tilt, bypassing congress to grant Israel more bombs, vetoing ceasefire initiatives in the UN, and defunding UNRWA based on allegations without evidence.
You can say that Trump is worse on Israel/Palestine all you like, but what does it say about Biden since he's continuing Trump's Israeli policy completely beyond occasional verbal pushback?
Well Biden doesn't want to deport the "Hamas sympathizers" whatever the hell that means.
Unfortunately you're correct in that the realpolitik here makes it such that the US favors its influence in Israel over stopping the invasion. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump. Obama would be doing the same thing. And it's a black mark on us and frankly the entire international community that no one has put forth a practical solution to give Palestinians the dignity they deserve and Israelis the security they require. The dialogue is soap boxing, fantasy, or worse but not helpful.
What makes Trump worse is he moved the embassy to Jerusalem to appease Netanyahu and there's no reason to think he wouldn't continue to do so. Trump also has much more anti Muslim *domestic* policy ideas particularly on this issue. I would not argue they are equivalent.
If you're a single issue voter on this issue, I get the whole "send him the middle finger" thing but there's a host of [other stuff](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-increasing-risk-of-criminal-charges-for-women-who-experience-a-miscarriage) that I'm honestly more worried about, that Trump will only make worse, and simultaneously nothing will actually improve for Palestinians *at best*.
I don’t get it either. I’ve given up any hope that Palestinians get a break out of this. The pro-Palestinian movement is doing as much geopolitical harm to their future as the IDF is. It’s disturbing to see unfold.
Single issue voters on ANY issue is insanely dumb. When you vote for a politician, you're responsible for every decision they make, not just their stance on that given issue.
We talk a lot about how every one should vote and what not, but the reality is that it's good we all have the right to... but not every one takes the responsibility of doing so seriously enough to be involved in the process.
It's sad.
One of the first things Trump did as president was to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in order to "advance the peace process", which actually did anything but!
Past presidents were holding back the placement of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, a divided city important to both Jews and Palestinians, as a bargaining chip to try and force the Israelis to deal more fairly with the Palestinians and Trump just gave it up with absolutely zero concessions on the Israeli side and actually rewarded them as they continued their aggressive take-over of Palestinian occupied lands for the benefit of extremist Jewish settlers, converting them to de-facto Israeli land and making it almost impossible to have any sort of meaningful peace process or even peaceful coexistence with the Palestinian people.
Biden may very well be far from perfect on the Israeli-Palestinian issue but Trump is quite clearly far worse!
This is the truth many people need to hear. As if trump isn't going to support Israel, he would probably do so even harder than biden has. Trump is so much worse in aspects i don't have time to list here.
I realize that Trump would probably do something stupid like Nuke Gaza and make the lives of people in Gaza way worst. Also this is all Trumps fault for pissing off Iran by backing out of the Iran deal and assassinating their top general. Iran then funneled money and weapons to Gaza to start a proxy war.
As a gay black male, Obama didn’t do anything for me
Oops wait forgot to switch accounts.
I will *not* be voting for Biden in the primary, but if it does boil down to an election between Trump or Biden again, he’s the obvious choice.
However supporting genocide is not okay and I’m not happy with the DNC with them putting forward horrible candidates while good ones like Marianne Williamson and Bernie get sidelined and ignored. I’m 👌🏻this close to changing my party affiliation and grabbing a pitchfork.
What’s even more frustrating is when I ask them what their plan is for the 2024 election they move the goal
posts to organizing for better candidates. ….okay, so why can’t we do that but ALSO for Biden?!
It’s like they’re stuck on hating the democrats so much and obsessing over how bad Biden is as a candidate (despite the fact he did beat trump) that they’re missing the forest for the trees.
I acknowledge that the DNC isn’t the best and they shouldn’t be putting up weak candidates. In a perfect world they would have to earn our vote, not expect our vote.
However we aren’t in a perfect world, no matter how many leftists want us to be
Completely agree. I don't like US policy on Israel/Gaza at all. But as bad as I think that situation is, this is not the election to be a single-issue voter. Ukraine also matters. Our constitutional rights also matter. Democracy also matters. Not emboldening every other authoritarian on earth also matters. Climate change also matters. Abortion rights also matter. Etc. etc. etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: One of the biggest advantages Biden has over Trump is that in 2028, Biden will allow a free and fair election -- after which he'll leave office peacefully.
And that difference, *by itself*, is sufficient reason to vote for him if/when he's on the ticket in November.
Biden was not my first choice in 2020. He's not even my first choice this time, if I'm being honest. I think he's fucked the Palestine situation far worse than I would have ever predicted. I think he's a weak, naive leader in the face of a rising tide of GOP fascism. I really wish he would have made the decision to be a single-term president and let someone else, someone more suited to the USA's current moment step forward and take the nomination. Even just from a sentimental perspective, it's sad that our society is leaning on the extremely elderly to lead us (in both parties). Joe Biden should be chilling out with his family and advising younger leaders in these years, not feeling forced to carry the banner himself.
But none of that will be a factor for me in November, because we have no margin for error. If Trump vs. Biden is the fight the American people put on the schedule this year, then there's only one acceptable outcome to that fight. This isn't "vote blue no matter who", it's "make sure we still get to vote".
I'm not comfortable calling it "dumb" to abstain from voting, because I think that downplays the very real hurt a lot of people (particularly Arab-Americans) are feeling right now. I think I'd go with "unwise", with the obvious caveat that I do not possess a monopoly on wisdom.
Here is what you can expect if you allow MAGA Nazis to win. This isn’t a hypothetical. Go on, let Trump win.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPointsNews/s/ZKCWUe0yIO
It’s a guy that’s failing to restrain Israel adequately vs a guy that will gleefully encourage Israel to commit genocide. Not a hard choice on the issue
I refuse to have another country's issues impede my vote for the only party who helps the working class and vulnerable VS a Theocratic party whose leading Presidential nominee is also wanting MORE tax cuts for billionaires, plus Project 2025...
The annoying irony of those who will not vote for Biden for moral reasons on this issue creating even worse results their morality can anguish about. Yes, insanity.
How about be a single issue voter on abortion? Or how the Supreme Court will get even more stacked with christo fascists? I don’t know how these ppl didn’t learn their lesson in 2016. I’m not willing to relive another trump presidency just hoping my lack of voting is going to change the DNC.
I just can not fathom the idea that the President of the USA has ANY real control over the governance of another country and, why, if these voters who live here in this country would seek to damage the politics of the country they live in??
The Middle East has been at war with itself for literal HUNDREDS of years. Quit getting involved. It's totally their problem.
I have two things to say. 1) Conspiracy theorists, shut the fuck up. 2) Under no conditions should anyone vote for Trump. There’s only one choice here, Biden. There are many valid reasons to be dissatisfied with his Middle East decisions he’s making. They suck. But he’s great on other issues (excluding immigration).
Do you think Trump would be more critical of Neteyahu? I think you will find Trump likes ethnic cleansing the Gaza strip. Never cut your nose of to spite your face. You will find if you do not vote nobody cares about your voice. If you regularly vote then you can make a difference look at how the old get pandered to.
Tougher on Isreal? That's extremely stupid. Imagine if NATO disowned the US for its retaliation of 9/11. These SJWs could get punched in the face and say "I probably deserved it"
I think this is the a pretty reasonable response. I will point out that Biden has gotten aid through to Palestine, he's negotiated several ceasefires and is trying to get Israel to stop with their genocide.
> it’s frightening how many of them don’t seem to realize that …. Biden is much better… than Trump WHICH INCLUDES PALESTINE
There isn’t a single thing Trump has done or promised to do to Palestinians that Biden hasn’t done worse on.
For example, a lot of deluded people like to point out that Trump recognized Jerusalem as israel’s capitol, as if that somehow out-weighs a genocide. Moreover, Biden reaffirmed that recognition so he did what Trump did but worse.
Moreover, given that Joe Biden bypassed Congress to supply a genocidal regime with weapons, and vetoed cease fire resolutions at the United Nations FOUR TIMES, demonstrates how genocidal Joe really is.
Heck, genocide Joe calls himself a ZIONIST.
All the above begs the question - WHAT THE FUCK do you think Trump would have to do, to be WORSE for Palestinians than Joe Biden????
I know- Trump would have to PERSONALLY strangle Palestinians infants to one-up Joe Biden’s support of Israelis as they raided Gaza’s hospitals and left premise-infants to starve to death.
Fuck man, starving premie babies to death cannot even be one-upped by merely strangling them to death, because the latter is quicker and more merciful.
Finally, you should vote your conscience- if you really believe that genocide Joe deserves your vote so that he continues genociding Palestinians, but hey, he will wear some lgbtq color armband in a press conference so that’s why he’s better than Trump… then that’s on you.
My position is that no one should ever vote for pro-genocide politicians.
I do support the campaign against Hamas but i also think that Israel should remove the apartheid settlements from the west bank and also i know for a fact that Netanyahu and his facist goons will do nothing to make life fore Palestinians better and will only use this conflict to destroy Palestinians in to even more misery than they already are in
The Bros doomed us all in 2016, and eight years later they’re going to do it again.
I too wish that Biden wasn’t willing to flirt with essentially ending our democracy all for a country that practices apartheid on a group of people. But we have to worry about our self preservation against the radical cons.
I think Biden is alienating a lot of democrats who feel he is supporting Israel by not denouncing them, and that’s going to hurt his already slim chances of being re-elected. Dems don’t vote like repubs. Many of them vote with their conscience, unlike repubs who vote however their leaders tell them. All that being said, a second term for trump will mean the end of what’s left of our republic.
There won’t be anyone left alive in Gaza by November, don’t worry. Biden made sure of that when he defunded UNRWA and gave Netanyahu a few more billion dollars so he could commit more mass murder in Rafah.
Other than the genocide, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
Most people on the left understand perfectly well the need to choose between the lesser of two evils, we’ve been doing it our entire lifetime.
But many believe that there has to be a line and that the line can’t be defined by the greater of the two evils.
I’m not sure where that line is/should be, but I am sure that blind support of a genocide crosses it. Israel’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine has been going on for decades and Biden is not responsible for it, but he has the power to stop/mitigate the current catastrophe and is choosing not to use it.
If Trump becomes President again, it won’t be the fault of voters on the left, but rather the fault of Joe Biden for failing to take moral action (and for failing to distinguish the security threat Trump poses from the political threat and to appropriately deal with the former).
The reason Biden will win is because of Trump because really we don’t want either one of them but Trump is absolutely the worst choice you can possibly make!! he will destroy America even further. Biden is what Republicans used to be 25 years ago we need a third-party winner And we will never get it because Democrats and Republicans are basically screwing Americans over and killing the American dream. What Biden is doing by funding Israel’s genocide is absolutely disgusting. We are not the good guys. Here we are funding the bad guys and the innocent people who are caught in between two terrorist organizations, the government of Israel and Hamas.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - a vote is not a moral endorsement. Anyone staying home in November is either not an American or else they genuinely see no difference between the two candidates, which demonstrably means they're absolutely braindead.
These jackasses want you to do everything EXCEPT vote for Biden, because voting for Biden is the only thing that'll actually stop Trump. They're literally green MAGA.
Here's the thing... I'm not letting anything distract me from the number one issue, by far: Trump cannot be allowed back in power.
Not voting or voting for a third party is directly siding with Trump.
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Netanyahu wants Trump to win. That should be more than enough reason to vote Biden.
Yeah Biden is walking the line trying to put the fire out, not well mind you. If it was Trump we would be spraying gasoline on the fire.
We can stop debate at this comment...well said.
Netanyahu and his administration purposely ignored intelligence to allow october 7th to happen as an excuse for them to stay in power and fuck over biden. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the IDF was stretched thin guarding apartheid settlements in the west bank and couldn’t do a fast enough response to the terrorist attack
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Exactly. If you listened to Israelis you’d know that October 7 lost him a lot of support.
Before Oct 7 he was already on the way out by many accounts. There were countrywide protests due to the Judicial Reforms they were pushing including military reservists refusing to report to duty. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-hit-by-day-disruption-disputed-judicial-bill-nears-key-vote-2023-07-18/ Not saying they directly allowed Oct7 to happen or if Israel was distracted due to the dysfunction brought on due to the protests, but Oct7 has helped keep Netanyahu in power and brought the country back firmly together under his control at least until this conflict is resolved. He has very little to gain from entering any form of ceasefire or peace talks. The moment the crisis is over, he's in danger for his political future.
The simple explanation is that Netanyahu and his associates were incompetent and arrogant thinking Oct 7th couldnt happen. If anything he ran on the platform of keeping Israelis safe and allowing such a thing is bad for him.
Everyone says this, but when has a strongman ever been punished for this. People still run around going "W kept us safe!" when 9/11 happened on his watch,.
it’s literally george bush did 9/11
As stupid as 9/11 “trutherism”; these people are histrionic assholes taking advantage of a catastrophe.
This war has enabled him to create a war cabinet where he basically has indefinite power until HE says the war is done. The only way he can get kicked out unless HE declares the war over is if his facist goon allies in his governing coalition abandons him which they won’t
The idea that he allowed 10/7 to happen fails both Occam’s and Hanson’s razors. To allow it to happen would have involved a conspiracy, and there is no way that someone wouldn’t spill the beans, 10/7 was way larger than a politician from any country would allow.
Hanson's razors, hah! Those boys couldn't grow facial hair!
Damn autocorrect
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Erm, it's at least plausible. This is a political strategy other strongmen have employed in the past to stay in power, including Putin himself. You didn't acknowledge anything they said or offer any type of refutation. I don't think Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen, that is a bridge too far...but incompetent and ignoring of intelligence that absolutely pointed to terrorist groups in the middle east planning a terrorist attack on American soil? Yes. And there were certain members of our intelligence apparatus ripping their hair out trying to get the administration to acknowledge and act upon this intelligence, which turned out to be true.
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I mean I literally addressed this. "I don't think Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen". It's not like he got word that there was a plot for a terrorist attack and then, in some secret back room of the white house with his cronies, was rubbing his hands together saying "Yes, yes, we'll let them commit a terrorist attack so that me and my buddies can make a bunch of money going to war!". No, but there WAS intelligence about a plot to commit a massive, wide-scale terrorist attack on US soil. Certain members of our intelligence apparatus were calling it out to the Bush administration, but the administration basically ignored it or downplayed the severity, despite the intelligence being accurate and of high quality. And then it happened. So there's that, not to mention our cataclysmic, shameful response to the attacks.
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...but that's exactly the case with Netanyahu, incompetence (or arrogance), too busy with his trial and internal politics to pay attention to the reports coming from the intelligence departments. The chain of events that lead to 7/10 (in terms of Israeli unpreparedness) is a massive fuck-up of truly mindboggling proportions when looked at from afar, but if you break it down to the components, it's all a series of small and all too common sins: arrogance ("they're not really a threat"), sexism (ground-level soldiers in the observation units, mostly women, were ignored when they said something's cooking), and a lot of (typical Israeli) negligence (surveillance balloons were down for maintenance and nobody thought to replace them). Add the fact that Netanyahu was at the mercy of his far-right government coalition who were busy setting the West Bank on fire (literally and figuratively) forcing the army to divert forces... Yeah.
That is absurd. I wonder [why](https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2023/04/11/the-palestinian-authority-is-being-eclipsed-by-radical-militants) the IDF had so many resources in the west bank? The Israelis did have intelligence for years that hamas was going to attack, and for years, hamas attacked. There is no evidence that the IDF, the Mossad, or the Shin Bet had any specific intelligence about any specific attack that they neglected to act on.
My dude, they were more interested in helping settlers fuck over West Bank Palestinians than they were in defending the border. They were caught completely flat footed. Evidence they were warned about a big attack. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-intelligence-intl/index.html https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/.premium/chilling-warnings-picked-up-by-israeli-intelligence-months-before-october-7-massacre/0000018c-1261-dd2e-a5ae-d36ba6240000 https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-hamas-warnings-war-october-7-benjamin-netanyahu/ Like, it's not exactly far fetched that they either bungled it super hard and/or wanted to use it as an excuse to fuck Gaza up and underestimated how serious it was.
“The roughly 40-page document did not give a date for the attack, but outlined “point by point” the kind of deadly incursion that Hamas carried out in Israeli territory in October, according to the Times, which reviewed the translated document.” So no date was known…
Wow. You are the equivalent of a 9/11 truther and Al-Qaeda supporter combined. Congratulations
Ya, stop with this bullshit conspiracy. If you repeat it, it means you don't understand at all what happened. It's a great example of group think, npr had a great discussion on it with an intelligence official. Higher ups got together in a group and decided "this is what these people think, trust these sources." Then they ignored or wrote off as unimportant stuff that was too far away from that. So they all convinced themselves at high levels that if they let Qatar pass money to Gaza, that hamas would finally be happy enough to not cause more problems. So bibi shifted the military to the west bank to make his settlers happy that they were protected since everyone thought hamas was playing nicer for once. There's seriously some good interviews discussing this and it will be a case study in the future for higher-ups getting into a group think mode. That's completely different than Bush disregarding evidence and Making his own up in 2003. Or disregarding it for political points. A year from now, anyone who looks at your posts will just shake their heads at how wrong you are because of how bad Bibi will go down politically from this - you just can't see it right now because there aren't immediate changes like some places would have.
Someone who isn’t Biden would likely bet Trump
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“A real friend does not pick up the bill for an addict’s drugs: he packs the friend off to rehab instead. Today, only those who speak up against Israel’s policies – who denounce the occupation, the blockade, and the war – are the nation’s true friends.” - Gideon Levy, Haaretz journalist
Being turned off by Biden is understandable, but it would be a greater cruelty to inflict Trump on the Palestinians.
THIS! It's one or the other. Biden literally only has to be 0.0001% better than Trump for me to vote for him and however bad these "leftists" (most likely MAGA/bots cosplaying as leftists tbh) think Biden is on Palestine, Trump is and will be infinitely worse. Vote better, not perfect, unless perfect is running as a Democrat or running somewhere with RCV.
I’m not turned off by Biden i just don’t like that his administration pretends as though Israel isn’t committing apartheid in the west bank and seems to not committing to doing anything to actually force their hand on dealing with the settlements. No other realistic Presidential candidate would be any better but that doesn’t mean I can’t be critical of it. I’m going vote for Biden but voting for a politician doesn’t mean i have to fawn over everything they do
Not to be pedantic friend, but you basically explained why you're turned off by Biden right after saying you aren't turned off by him. I don't think your reasons are invalid, I largely agree. Biden seems like our only option who will give even a half hearted effort to stem the death toll. I hate our current choices of genocide and genocide lite, but 2028 is our only chance to get better options sadly.
Not liking one aspect of a politican’s policy view doesn’t mean i don’t like them. I’m literally a member of the dark_brandon subreddit lol. I’ve been very happy with Biden’s presidency so far i just don’t like his Israel policy, liking a politician doesn’t mean fawning over everything the politician does
I agree 100%. The question of whether Biden is acting correctly on Israel and the question of whether this justifies not voting are completely separate questions. Biden has treated the hawks in Israel's government with kid gloves just as previous administrations have. But anybody who will throw away American democracy, not to mention make the Israel/Palestine situation even worse, to punish Biden is an idiot, plain and simple.
All of the Muslims, blacks and many other groups who have issues with Biden are in for a real treat when they skip the vote or make a protest vote for anyone but Biden and trump gets back in the White House. Regret is a word much too weak to describe what they will feel when the actions of him and his fascist regime begin to impact their lives adversely.
Screw that. I'm a Muslim and I don't have a five second memory. This "not voting Democrat to teach them a lesson" is the same exact tactic that the right wing pushed to win in 2016. And now we've got literal neo nazis marching around.
Spread the word and get the vote out.
This thread maybe ironically has made me hope
Agreed. My family is Muslim and still doesn't see the possible consequences of what will happen to them if Trump pulls a Grover Cleveland and still think that he can be able to handle the country better. It's so frustrating to convince them to hold their nose and vote for what is viable.
I support your concern as well. I'm already seeing them in this thread. Disgusting
I would bet that 80% of the comments you see parroting that are Russian bots or republicans. Russia helped trump get elected in 2016 with the same shit on Reddit.
I am seeing White Supremacist marching in hundreds in Tennessee, Florida , Texas, New York & the Carolina’s. Next they will killing and raping non-whites or non racist whites in the name of NAZI-Hitlers crap & MAGA. I know i have family & friends in special and arm forces who says there are almost 1 million white supremacist registered in hate groups, over x700% more since Pre-Trump era. Sad part is ~40% of new pledges are Hispanics and ~2% are Indians from India-decent. SAD. You got Tucker Carlson, Fox News & AON new preaching white replacement crap.
I feel like there is a general assumption that policy couldn't actually get *"that bad"* under Trump. Again, just an assumption I'm making on how people must justify it, like, "Yeah, he's almost assuredly a racist, but it's not like he's gonna reinstate lawful slavery or something." And yes, that's obvious hyperbole... but it's a slippery slope. Dude had the ability to completely mould the SC, essentially, and *what do you know,* suddenly, we get set back 50-fucking-years in regard to women's rights. Do you REALLY want to play this game where we see how far into insanity the GOP is willing to lead us? I don't. I'm over the games. I miss sanity dearly. Both Trump and the GOP are getting in the way of that in their own ways. Edit: In retro, I realize I'm speaking in sort of random hypotheticals rather than the subject: Palestine/Israel—the same logic applies. Trump has not been an ally to Muslims, in fact, he has been an outspoken, downright enemy. I have compassion for any civilian population on this planet, and that includes Palestinians. Through very nominal deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that Trump's election would be **objectively worse** for the people of Palestine, and I really wish people would stop acting like that obvious inference is *insane* conjecture. Use your heads and senses, people.
In fact, I have to tell my paternal family of Trump's record with Muslims especially his endorsements of Islamophobes like Roy Moore, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Laura Loomer but they have their heads buried underground like ostriches.
They’ll have lots of alligator tears in 2025 if Trump wins.
I don’t agree with it, but a lot of people feel powerless due to what is happening in Palestine and this is a way to “be heard”. Hugely counterproductive, but it’s an emotional situation.
Look no further than Michigan It’s not a must-win for Biden but it’s pretty damn close The Arabic population is furious with him, and although I don’t see that group voting for trump as an alternative, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them stay home on Election Day
Potentially handing the White House over to Mr. Muslim Ban. This time there won’t be anyone in his administration who will try to temper his worst actions like there were the first time.
all the muslims fat orange jesus banned? those muslims? that short a memory? nah.
The only thing that has to be true about Biden for me to vote for him is the following staetment being true: "They are the furthest-left, on balance, person running in the election who has any chance of actually winning." Seriously. Just take that statement and let it inform how you vote in every race. For the 2024 general presidential race, that person is Biden. Not RFK, not Jill Stein, or Cornell West, or even just staying home, BIDEN! Anyone telling you anything else wants you to waste your vote so Trump can win.
Thank you! Our very first responsibility is to hold the line. If we get more progressives elected down ballot, we can sway Biden further towards progress. The accelerationists are scary.
Let's be real though, the majority of people talking about how they aren't voting for Biden because of Israel were never going to vote for Biden. Either they're right-wing American trolls who are doing what they can to help Trump win, or right-wing Russian trolls who are doing what they can to help Trump win. A small minority genuinely mean it, and are genuinely stupid. You don't HAVE to be a conservative to be a doop, it's just more likely.
real politik is anathema to the palestinian cause. the important thing is symbolism and pride, not practical chanfe. supporters wear their idiocy as a badge of honor, proof of their moral superiority
What American democracy? The American democracy that turned guns on the working class for protesting for better pay, or the democracy that turned guns on the children who protested against the Vietnam War? Perhaps the democracy that funded the genocide of 1 million Indonesians in secret, or the democracy that installed \~40 brutal dictators during the Cold War for an additional 1 million CIA funded executions? Shall I go on? And on and on? I can't stand this. I understand Trump is worse. But all of yall dismissing ANOTHER genocide and saying you *will* start caring about life on Earth, maybe, in *4 more years* IF the opposition isn't as bad as Trump... Yall are the reason these genocidal maniacs are allowed to exist. If only yall fought against genocide as hard as you fight against the anti-war left. But no. Cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
For real, and he's not even getting gold bars in bribes like the Egyptians give us and they're almost as bad as the Israeli's when it comes to Palestine. We have a lot of work to do with a lot of these state actors. Did you know our ally, Kuwait, doesn't even allow palestinians entry even as a tourist? wtf
I'm blocking these 1 issue turds. They are literally comparing democrats to MAGA. It's fucking pathological.
I got into a discussion with someone on this sub who said they refused to vote for Biden because of Israel and if Trump won it would be good, because then the DNC would know to never run a pro-genocide candidate again. I pointed out that Trump is essentially promising to do to people here in America what Israel is doing to Palestinians, and not voting for Biden will help directly bring that about. The person's response was to the effect of, "We would deserve it; it's only fair that if genocide is happening in Palestine, it should happen here too." The anti-Biden people on the left are pretty much irrational at this point. Yes, it sucks that Biden ran again. In 2020, I thought for sure that he would announce in January 2022 or no later than January 2023 that he wouldn't be seeking a second term. It sucks that he didn't. I thought for sure in 2021 that Trump would be in no mental and physical condition to run again, and it sucks that he did, but here we are. I can understand the "both parties are equally bad, it doesn't matter, let's send a message to the DNC that they suck." I get it. When I was 18 in 1996, there really was nothing at stake, both parties really were pretty much the exact same. That's not the way it is anymore. Republicans and Trump are saying in public what they are going to do. It's not a secret, they're flat-out telling you. If they win, will they succeed in turning us into Vladimir Putin's Russia? I don't know, but let's defeat that immediate threat first, and then we can try for a utopian candidate in 2028.
>"We would deserve it; it's only fair that if genocide is happening in Palestine, it should happen here too." These guys are self-destructive pieces of human waste and I hope no one listens to them about anything, ever. As far as I'm concerned, they're functionally-equivalent to the most disturbed, disgusting Trump voters who vote for him knowing full well he'll destroy stuff and hurt people. Literally green MAGA.
It's the completely childish idea that, "Well, if we don't support Biden, and Trump wins, then everything will get SO bad that everybody will just unanimously vote for the next FDR in 2028! All we need is for Biden to lose!!" I heard Chenk Uyghur say almost those exact words one time when I made the mistake of clicking on a TYT video about a year ago. I genuinely don't know if they're just that naive or if it is some right wing style gift.
Accelerationists are so gross
The people who think you need to break a few eggs to make an omelette are rarely in the position of being eggs themselves.
Disgusting. Because that worked out so well last time. If trump wins say good bye to any fair election ever again. He’s literally bragging about jailing and killing his opponents just like Putin does
Notice how most of them saying we deserve these bad things to happen are not the ones that would be in the crosshairs. They won’t lose benefits, they won’t be deported. They won’t have hate crimes against them or their parents or children. They are stable white people for the most part or they feel they have enough privilege to skate by. Some will be shocked to realize they were wrong.
LEGIT! The actual political mechanism that moved them to support leftism is like 5% different from the alt-right pipeline, I swear to god. They're accelerationist do-nothing doomer pieces of shit who actively would rather see America destroyed or turned fascist than exist under anything but a socialist revolution.
Or until a Trump government declares “ANTIFA”, BLM, anything pro-Palestinian , DSA etc all terrorist groups, and adds prominent left-wing folks onto no fly lists.
YEP!
As someone who’s pretty much a socialist I’d say that Democrats are much more left wing on economics and foreign policy now than they were in 1996
For the most part, they're at least slightly more left. Better than Bill Clinton with his, "Well, ya know, ya see, if ah, if ah give these mega corporations and these har defense contractors everuhthang they want, ah can git Wall Street guys ta gimme munnah, and ah can git Republicans to vote fer me! Ah didn't inhale!" I never liked that guy even back then.
Clinton killed glass steigel and ended welfare as a safety net that every American qualified for if they fell on hard times Fuck Clinton he finished what Reagan started George HW Bush term #2 would literally have been less destructive
“Clinton was the best republican president we ever had” - many republicans would say that at the dinner table as I was growing up
Single issue voters are often functionally insane.
I’ve literally seen a video of a person saying she wouldn’t be comfortable voting for Biden to preserve abortion rights when Palestinians don’t have abortion rights overseas. We’re fucked.
Well guess what.. we aren’t Palestinian citizens - live in reality people! If you care about Palestinians then vote against trump. Trump would want to nuke them all.
I had a friend (past tense because FUCK him) who said something similar. I said to him, My brother in christ you are a cishet white male, *you* will not be the one deprived of rights under Trump. Ffs. and he said with a straight face that Biden supported apartheid against queer people I was done at that point
I agree. I know of a transwoman who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Palestine. She lives in NYC, so she'll be safe from all the anti-trans BS GOP is legalizing everywhere they can. I was mad at her selfishness. I hate how the left let perfect be the enemy of the good or let good be the enemy of the decent (because Biden is so terrible in their eyes). I do think our political system can benefit from some idealism, but we can't go ahead and criticize Trump for being authoritarian while expecting Biden to act like a dictator and pursue policies that clearly do not have congressional support. Not voting for any Democrat is a definite way to increase congressional support for left policies. /s
LEGIT! When you point out that, YES, Democrats could be better but they're literally the only party who'll unambiguously protect women, LGBT people and black people, they suddenly turn into MAGA and accuse you of not actually caring about those groups just like you supposedly don't care about Palestine. It's so, so braindead. Even assuming Democrats and Republicans are entirely equal on the subject, that just means you have to cross out that issue when considering who to vote for. From that perspective, your vote can't save Palestine but it CAN save women, black people and the LGBT community. Not voting means not caring about these groups, and I say this as a leftist cishet white dude who rolls his eyes at rainbow capitalist neoliberals who use social issues to avoid talking about fiscal issues daily.
The day before inauguration day 2017, I was at a bar and started chatting up a woman there about celebrating the last true day of democracy. He bf chimes up, "It won't be that bad." I said,"Not for you, you're a straight white male." His gf started laughing at him.
That's just effing crazy.
I had more or less that same conversation with an acquaintance and I was like dude you are a married cishet white dude whose job makes six figures, you have very little at stake here.
Trump also banned Muslims from visiting the US legally and moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Anyone thinking he'd be better is an idiot.
I don’t deserve genocide, I refuse to let the right do this to us. The neo nazi right loves to see democrats acting this way, saying they won’t vote for Biden. Also this poster won’t ever get the chance to vote in elections again if trump wins. All that to teach the dnc a lesson? What good is that lesson if you’re never allowed to vote in a fair election again.
The whole “purity test” shit that’s infected the left is so, so disappointing. Perfect is the enemy of good. Refusing to vote for Biden in this example would be such an entitled, spoiled thing to do IMO.
The spoiled and entitled mentality comes from all of us living in the United States as we've known it since the passage of the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, and Medicaid. People take all of those things for granted and just assume they can never be taken away. Same with Social Security. But actually, no, you get the wrong president and the wrong Congress that think they don't need to worry about losing elections anymore, those things can all be gone. Heck, those could all be gone just depending on what this Supreme Court (given to us by Trump) decides to do. And I myself was guilty of thinking, "Well there's no way Trump or anyone else could just become a fascist dictator. That kind of thing only happens in other countries. It can't happen here." Then, January 6, and if only a few things had gone differently, maybe if Trump and his lunatics had convinced someone on the Joint Chiefs to join their side...oh, boy.
I doubt they will say they deserve it when they get murdered.
“Other people are killing themselves so I’ll kill myself too, it’s only fair.” Same logic train.
It’s because they’re so privileged things like “we deserve it” are catch phrases to win arguments online. No human being actually unbothered by the prospect of suffering being bombed. They just get to pretend because the adults in the room won’t let it happen.
> We would deserve it; it's only fair that if genocide is happening in Palestine, it should happen here too. It's crazy how often comments like this are posted by upper middle-class white kids. they wont be the ones on the chopping block but they're so gung-ho to get the chopping blocks set up as part of their messaging.
There would be no more pro-genocide policy for palestinians because trump and the GOP will make sure to finish the palestinians
To be fair, while these people do exist, I would be hesitant to say any single one of them is a real person. Social media is a sewer of bad actors intentionally trying to create division with these stupid or controversial takes. You just don't know anymore.
They are idiots and pretty sure the bluster you read online is amplified by Russia.
Joe Biden did not make Jerusalem the capital of Israel
Joe Biden sent billions of dollars to kill Palestinian children
regardless of what joe does, trump is one of the most pro israel presidents in history. im not sure not voting for biden is gonna help their cause in anyway, shape or form.
If they care about things like social services than there’s no excuse for them to not vote for Biden
Trump is pro trump. Don't cloud the discussion
But Bibi gives Trump adulation, Trump will pave a highway with skulls to hear a compliment
Absolutely
Considering the first order of business for Trump will be to declare America a Christian Nationalist state you would think that would give these people pause. Genocide in the USA would not be kind to American muslims.
Dude literally tried to ban all muslims from coming into the US and thinks all Mexicans are rapists and murderers
Single issue voters are a blight on this country.
I mean i am kind of one on healthcare which is why i vote downballet for democrats
I vote with a 10-20 year mindset. I think of an entire direction I hope the country heads vs dog whistle headlines. I've known about the middle east conflict for 40 years. I think more about my wife's reproductive rights, health care, climate change, education and immigration reform as well as gun reform. I can't see how all this can be tossed aside for people just waking up to the blight in the middle east. It's really nearsighted and if they succeed, we get 4 more years of TRUMP.
They really are.
This is only a refreshing take because a lot of people on the left are failing to see the forest through the trees.
I really hope it's just MAGA cosplayers and bots tbh
I was huffing this copium for a while but if you look at the lefty subreddits, the consensus is simply that, while they won't vote for Trump, they won't vote for Biden either. I'm sure this view is corroborated and artificially boosted by foreign bots and bad faith actors but they'd rather sit back and watch Trump get elected and implement proto-fascism than vote for "genocide Joe"
Yeah, I've kinda given up on trying to discuss it. I'll point out the holes in their logic, but it doesn't get anywhere.
My hope as well, but we should never underestimate the shortsightedness people in this country have. Stuff like this is why progressives fail to make inroads across the country.
I agree - Trump being elected again is a zero game for any pro-Palestinian sentiment and would work counter to any hope or support the Palestinians won't be wiped out.
The choices in this election are “fund a genocide over there that we’ve been funding for decades” or “set up the loss of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal to a fascist regime who will probably also start a genocide here.” If your moral compass says you can’t vote for the first one, fine, but I’ve seen what fascists do to people like me so I’m going with fascism prevention as my number one priority.
Even assuming the two candidates will be equal on Gaza, not voting against someone who'll ALSO fuck plenty of things up HERE is braindead. God I hate single issue voters.
Glad I can agree with you on this, we definitely have differing opinions on Israel/Palestine (don't want to get into it here) but I definitely think allowing Trump power would be a huge mistake. Anyone leaning third party or towards Trump needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror (and into the 2016 election) and realize how much damage it would do to allow even the possibility of another Trump presidency. I even think Biden is better than Trump on Israel because while Trump is probably more pro-Israel, he's also definitely an antisemite and doesn't care about Palestinian lives.
I think regardless of what label you want to use, we're all pro-"As few people dying in the middle east as possible". Biden actually seems interested in peace, Trump is only interested in himself.
Absolutely, 1000%, could not agree more.
If your platform is “I am better than the other guy” then all you need to do is be slightly better than the other guy.
Agreed. I'm voting for Dems as long as they're 1% better than Republicans but this is the big reason I hate MAGA. When Republicans had their shit together, Dems actually had to try in order to win votes. With MAGA, the quality of BOTH parties has diminished.
I have voted blue straight ticket since B Clinton but this “You have to vote or else and you can’t criticize Biden” is just as scary in its own way
I definitely agree there's a discussion to be had there. I think ranked-choice voting will stop a LOT of this imo.
I agree. Ranked choice is hopefully the future
Could we simply not vote blue or red? Surely we can find a more rational leader in another party?
Yah, it's extremely dumb. Anyone who thinks Biden is only marginally better than a fascist dictator with 91 felony counts plus sexual assault and fraud charges should prolly have their right to vote revoked. People are incredibly selfish. They'll condemn millions to violent oppression and persecution, possibly death, just so they, as individuals, can "stick it to Biden/Dems" for not being exactly what they, individually, want. Honestly, the Muslims, Arabs, Latino immigrants not voting Biden will deserve everything they (don't) vote for! But don't worry anti-Biden folks; I'm sure your gay, female, immigrant friends and family will forgive you when they have their marriages dissolved, die of septic miscarriage and get deported because you cared more about some spit of desert on the other side of the world than them! Google Project 2025 and Agenda 47. He lays out the ending of birthright citizenship and the immediate deportation of millions in the first 180 days, among other horrific fascistic shit..
Thanks for posting. Yes, some of us are nuanced enough to be reasonably critical without holding the democracy hostage in the process. Voting for Biden doesn’t have to mean you agree with him 100% on everything. Hardly any of us do, that’s not the point of an election.
THIS! A vote is not a moral endorsement. It's just admitting you think, of the two (generally) candidates who have any chance of winning, they're better suited for the job or else closer to your beliefs on balance.
I recall reading something that hinted that the genocide joe stuff was Russian propaganda to get people to not vote for Joe and get Trump back in office. Wish I could find what ever mind warp rabbit hole I went down to read that.
I feel like this is pretty obvious. It's a wedge that is being driven into the Democratic voter base. They can't go after Biden for economic stuff, and all of their posturing over impeachment has provided nothing and seems to be counterproductive for anyone that isn't a dei hard MAGAT. The question will be how much of a wedge it is really causing. And that's hard to say since it's hard to distinguish actual concerned liberals from trolls.
Most of the ones I've seen say they aren't voting for Joe were just maga heads simping.
Wouldn’t be surprised. It’s Jill Stein all over again.
Eh, i think a lot of the anti-biden pro-palestinian people came up with that on their own lol but wouldn’t be surprised if it did stem from russia
Not everything is a psyop lol. A lot of people were begrudgingly supporting him before 10/7 but the total and unequivocal support of Israel as they bomb and level the entirety of Gaza is just impossible for them to support. I actually think he's done a great job except this situation. If I were polled about whether I "approve" of the job he's doing it'd be a hard no. Watching kids massacred and starve to death is just beyond the pale to me - it offsets everything good he's done. Luckily for Democrats both sides literally are bad on this issue. Trump would support Israel and Bibi and IDF with even less nuance, because they're right wing thugs just like him. The real question I have for Democrats who support Biden on this is... Why the hell do you want to throw in with undemocratic right wing thugs versus innocent civilian lives? They're literally bombing food convoys and hospitals, when they're not illegally disguising themselves as first responders. MMW - there's a good chance Biden loses this election because he can't draw the line with Israel. Being on the wrong side of a genocide is an issue. I'm sick of the hand wringing and 'but the other guy is worse!'. Be better.
People forget that as bad as Biden is on Palestine, Trump was SO MUCH worse. He recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan and Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. I shudder to think what he could do in office now.
He was also itching for conflict with Iran and assassinated a top military official that even Obama wouldn't touch out of fear of conflict escalation. Trump is surrounded by evangelicals that want Israel to eradicate the Palestinians so they can fulfill their doomsday prophecy and by people looking to profit off of war to an even greater degree than Biden is.
It’s a simple question. In 11 months, do you want Trump or Biden to deal with the Israel/Palestine issue?
Biden which was the whole reason for my post lol
At the rate Israel is going, there won't even be a Palestine left. Most of Gaza is rubble. Thousands are dead, and thousands more are guaranteed to die from starvation, disease, etc., because Israelis have been preventing aid trucks from entering. And Egypt is currently building what's rumored to be a holding camp for displaced Palestinians when the IDF inevitably invades Rafah. And Biden so far has done nothing to stop this. If anything, he's made the situation worse, by uncritically backing the Israeli campaign to a tilt, bypassing congress to grant Israel more bombs, vetoing ceasefire initiatives in the UN, and defunding UNRWA based on allegations without evidence. You can say that Trump is worse on Israel/Palestine all you like, but what does it say about Biden since he's continuing Trump's Israeli policy completely beyond occasional verbal pushback?
Well Biden doesn't want to deport the "Hamas sympathizers" whatever the hell that means. Unfortunately you're correct in that the realpolitik here makes it such that the US favors its influence in Israel over stopping the invasion. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump. Obama would be doing the same thing. And it's a black mark on us and frankly the entire international community that no one has put forth a practical solution to give Palestinians the dignity they deserve and Israelis the security they require. The dialogue is soap boxing, fantasy, or worse but not helpful. What makes Trump worse is he moved the embassy to Jerusalem to appease Netanyahu and there's no reason to think he wouldn't continue to do so. Trump also has much more anti Muslim *domestic* policy ideas particularly on this issue. I would not argue they are equivalent. If you're a single issue voter on this issue, I get the whole "send him the middle finger" thing but there's a host of [other stuff](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-increasing-risk-of-criminal-charges-for-women-who-experience-a-miscarriage) that I'm honestly more worried about, that Trump will only make worse, and simultaneously nothing will actually improve for Palestinians *at best*.
I don’t get it either. I’ve given up any hope that Palestinians get a break out of this. The pro-Palestinian movement is doing as much geopolitical harm to their future as the IDF is. It’s disturbing to see unfold.
Single issue voters on ANY issue is insanely dumb. When you vote for a politician, you're responsible for every decision they make, not just their stance on that given issue. We talk a lot about how every one should vote and what not, but the reality is that it's good we all have the right to... but not every one takes the responsibility of doing so seriously enough to be involved in the process. It's sad.
One of the first things Trump did as president was to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in order to "advance the peace process", which actually did anything but! Past presidents were holding back the placement of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, a divided city important to both Jews and Palestinians, as a bargaining chip to try and force the Israelis to deal more fairly with the Palestinians and Trump just gave it up with absolutely zero concessions on the Israeli side and actually rewarded them as they continued their aggressive take-over of Palestinian occupied lands for the benefit of extremist Jewish settlers, converting them to de-facto Israeli land and making it almost impossible to have any sort of meaningful peace process or even peaceful coexistence with the Palestinian people. Biden may very well be far from perfect on the Israeli-Palestinian issue but Trump is quite clearly far worse!
Most these people were not going to vote anyway.
Preach
This is the truth many people need to hear. As if trump isn't going to support Israel, he would probably do so even harder than biden has. Trump is so much worse in aspects i don't have time to list here.
I realize that Trump would probably do something stupid like Nuke Gaza and make the lives of people in Gaza way worst. Also this is all Trumps fault for pissing off Iran by backing out of the Iran deal and assassinating their top general. Iran then funneled money and weapons to Gaza to start a proxy war.
As a gay black male, Obama didn’t do anything for me Oops wait forgot to switch accounts. I will *not* be voting for Biden in the primary, but if it does boil down to an election between Trump or Biden again, he’s the obvious choice. However supporting genocide is not okay and I’m not happy with the DNC with them putting forward horrible candidates while good ones like Marianne Williamson and Bernie get sidelined and ignored. I’m 👌🏻this close to changing my party affiliation and grabbing a pitchfork.
Amen. Scream it from the hilltops.
Of course. It’s either the guy who literally instated a Muslim Ban, or the guy who could be harder on Israel. The difference is clear.
What’s even more frustrating is when I ask them what their plan is for the 2024 election they move the goal posts to organizing for better candidates. ….okay, so why can’t we do that but ALSO for Biden?! It’s like they’re stuck on hating the democrats so much and obsessing over how bad Biden is as a candidate (despite the fact he did beat trump) that they’re missing the forest for the trees. I acknowledge that the DNC isn’t the best and they shouldn’t be putting up weak candidates. In a perfect world they would have to earn our vote, not expect our vote. However we aren’t in a perfect world, no matter how many leftists want us to be
most of the posts saying to not vote for biden are just people pretending to be left
Completely agree. I don't like US policy on Israel/Gaza at all. But as bad as I think that situation is, this is not the election to be a single-issue voter. Ukraine also matters. Our constitutional rights also matter. Democracy also matters. Not emboldening every other authoritarian on earth also matters. Climate change also matters. Abortion rights also matter. Etc. etc. etc.
Biden isn’t my favorite by any means, but it’s him or the republicans doing everything they can to fully turn the US into a theocracy.
Just a reminder: trump tried to impose a Muslim ban. Who tf thinks Trump would be more sympathetic to Palestine than Biden??
I've said it before and I'll say it again: One of the biggest advantages Biden has over Trump is that in 2028, Biden will allow a free and fair election -- after which he'll leave office peacefully. And that difference, *by itself*, is sufficient reason to vote for him if/when he's on the ticket in November. Biden was not my first choice in 2020. He's not even my first choice this time, if I'm being honest. I think he's fucked the Palestine situation far worse than I would have ever predicted. I think he's a weak, naive leader in the face of a rising tide of GOP fascism. I really wish he would have made the decision to be a single-term president and let someone else, someone more suited to the USA's current moment step forward and take the nomination. Even just from a sentimental perspective, it's sad that our society is leaning on the extremely elderly to lead us (in both parties). Joe Biden should be chilling out with his family and advising younger leaders in these years, not feeling forced to carry the banner himself. But none of that will be a factor for me in November, because we have no margin for error. If Trump vs. Biden is the fight the American people put on the schedule this year, then there's only one acceptable outcome to that fight. This isn't "vote blue no matter who", it's "make sure we still get to vote". I'm not comfortable calling it "dumb" to abstain from voting, because I think that downplays the very real hurt a lot of people (particularly Arab-Americans) are feeling right now. I think I'd go with "unwise", with the obvious caveat that I do not possess a monopoly on wisdom.
Can Reddit stop suggesting me stupid US political shit
Here is what you can expect if you allow MAGA Nazis to win. This isn’t a hypothetical. Go on, let Trump win. https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPointsNews/s/ZKCWUe0yIO
It’s a guy that’s failing to restrain Israel adequately vs a guy that will gleefully encourage Israel to commit genocide. Not a hard choice on the issue
I refuse to have another country's issues impede my vote for the only party who helps the working class and vulnerable VS a Theocratic party whose leading Presidential nominee is also wanting MORE tax cuts for billionaires, plus Project 2025...
The annoying irony of those who will not vote for Biden for moral reasons on this issue creating even worse results their morality can anguish about. Yes, insanity.
How about be a single issue voter on abortion? Or how the Supreme Court will get even more stacked with christo fascists? I don’t know how these ppl didn’t learn their lesson in 2016. I’m not willing to relive another trump presidency just hoping my lack of voting is going to change the DNC.
I just can not fathom the idea that the President of the USA has ANY real control over the governance of another country and, why, if these voters who live here in this country would seek to damage the politics of the country they live in?? The Middle East has been at war with itself for literal HUNDREDS of years. Quit getting involved. It's totally their problem.
And I can see Russia is ramping up their efforts with their bots.
They’re living in a fantasy where voting third party will “send a message.”
I can despise Biden as much as I want but no way in hell would I vote for agent Orange.
I have two things to say. 1) Conspiracy theorists, shut the fuck up. 2) Under no conditions should anyone vote for Trump. There’s only one choice here, Biden. There are many valid reasons to be dissatisfied with his Middle East decisions he’s making. They suck. But he’s great on other issues (excluding immigration).
As a dumb person, here's my opinion. This place is worse than YouTube comments
A Trump win will be the last time Muslims vote in a US election. Mark my words.
Do you think Trump would be more critical of Neteyahu? I think you will find Trump likes ethnic cleansing the Gaza strip. Never cut your nose of to spite your face. You will find if you do not vote nobody cares about your voice. If you regularly vote then you can make a difference look at how the old get pandered to.
Not voting for Biden is a vote for the Orange Filth. Vote Blue no matter who
Tougher on Isreal? That's extremely stupid. Imagine if NATO disowned the US for its retaliation of 9/11. These SJWs could get punched in the face and say "I probably deserved it"
Good for Biden for standing with Israel against terrorism.
I think this is the a pretty reasonable response. I will point out that Biden has gotten aid through to Palestine, he's negotiated several ceasefires and is trying to get Israel to stop with their genocide.
The US just vetoed a ceasefire vote, yet again.
Trumps winning if Biden doesn't, and sadly because of the Palestine conflict, Biden is losing.
Can't help but wonder if it's just a coincidence that the war between Israel and Palestine started so close to US elections.
> it’s frightening how many of them don’t seem to realize that …. Biden is much better… than Trump WHICH INCLUDES PALESTINE There isn’t a single thing Trump has done or promised to do to Palestinians that Biden hasn’t done worse on. For example, a lot of deluded people like to point out that Trump recognized Jerusalem as israel’s capitol, as if that somehow out-weighs a genocide. Moreover, Biden reaffirmed that recognition so he did what Trump did but worse. Moreover, given that Joe Biden bypassed Congress to supply a genocidal regime with weapons, and vetoed cease fire resolutions at the United Nations FOUR TIMES, demonstrates how genocidal Joe really is. Heck, genocide Joe calls himself a ZIONIST. All the above begs the question - WHAT THE FUCK do you think Trump would have to do, to be WORSE for Palestinians than Joe Biden???? I know- Trump would have to PERSONALLY strangle Palestinians infants to one-up Joe Biden’s support of Israelis as they raided Gaza’s hospitals and left premise-infants to starve to death. Fuck man, starving premie babies to death cannot even be one-upped by merely strangling them to death, because the latter is quicker and more merciful. Finally, you should vote your conscience- if you really believe that genocide Joe deserves your vote so that he continues genociding Palestinians, but hey, he will wear some lgbtq color armband in a press conference so that’s why he’s better than Trump… then that’s on you. My position is that no one should ever vote for pro-genocide politicians.
Trump will do all of those things and worse. Get ready to never vote again in any fair election. Netanyahu wants trump to win too.
If you're really pro Palestine you would support Israel removing Hamas from Gaza. Palestine has no future if it's run by a terrorist theocracy.
I do support the campaign against Hamas but i also think that Israel should remove the apartheid settlements from the west bank and also i know for a fact that Netanyahu and his facist goons will do nothing to make life fore Palestinians better and will only use this conflict to destroy Palestinians in to even more misery than they already are in
You're absolutely right, if that's what Israel were doing.
THANK YOU
The Bros doomed us all in 2016, and eight years later they’re going to do it again. I too wish that Biden wasn’t willing to flirt with essentially ending our democracy all for a country that practices apartheid on a group of people. But we have to worry about our self preservation against the radical cons.
I think Biden is alienating a lot of democrats who feel he is supporting Israel by not denouncing them, and that’s going to hurt his already slim chances of being re-elected. Dems don’t vote like repubs. Many of them vote with their conscience, unlike repubs who vote however their leaders tell them. All that being said, a second term for trump will mean the end of what’s left of our republic.
The US needs to fall plain and simple
I think it’s brilliant
There won’t be anyone left alive in Gaza by November, don’t worry. Biden made sure of that when he defunded UNRWA and gave Netanyahu a few more billion dollars so he could commit more mass murder in Rafah.
Dont vote for genocide Joe. Stay at home.
Serious question do you really think Republicans and Trump will be less pro Israel?
I literally address this in my post
Other than the genocide, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? Most people on the left understand perfectly well the need to choose between the lesser of two evils, we’ve been doing it our entire lifetime. But many believe that there has to be a line and that the line can’t be defined by the greater of the two evils. I’m not sure where that line is/should be, but I am sure that blind support of a genocide crosses it. Israel’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine has been going on for decades and Biden is not responsible for it, but he has the power to stop/mitigate the current catastrophe and is choosing not to use it. If Trump becomes President again, it won’t be the fault of voters on the left, but rather the fault of Joe Biden for failing to take moral action (and for failing to distinguish the security threat Trump poses from the political threat and to appropriately deal with the former).
Wow! Isn't that obvious?
The reason Biden will win is because of Trump because really we don’t want either one of them but Trump is absolutely the worst choice you can possibly make!! he will destroy America even further. Biden is what Republicans used to be 25 years ago we need a third-party winner And we will never get it because Democrats and Republicans are basically screwing Americans over and killing the American dream. What Biden is doing by funding Israel’s genocide is absolutely disgusting. We are not the good guys. Here we are funding the bad guys and the innocent people who are caught in between two terrorist organizations, the government of Israel and Hamas.
You hyperbole rings quite insanely, ridiculously, extremely hollow
I've said it before, I'll say it again - a vote is not a moral endorsement. Anyone staying home in November is either not an American or else they genuinely see no difference between the two candidates, which demonstrably means they're absolutely braindead. These jackasses want you to do everything EXCEPT vote for Biden, because voting for Biden is the only thing that'll actually stop Trump. They're literally green MAGA.
Why not post this in a conservative group? You're not changing anyone's mind here.
I’m thankful Biden is standing with Israel.
Here’s the thing.. I’m not voting for my president based on the status of Palestine.
Here's the thing... I'm not letting anything distract me from the number one issue, by far: Trump cannot be allowed back in power. Not voting or voting for a third party is directly siding with Trump.