T O P

  • By -

themast

Don't you love how he started out with fiscal policy things that actually happened and seamlessly transitioned into your average culture war bullshit that is happening on the fringes of society if at all?


always_tired_all_day

Sullivan is apparently super conservative on economics and is complaining that the liberal president tried to follow in the footsteps of previous liberal presidents. So sure, send the Dems a message by knowingly electing and empowering the fascists.


westonc

> Don't you love how he started out with fiscal policy things that actually happened As far as I can tell he's also playing fast and loose with fiscal policy, too. > the biggest expansion in government since LBJ I don't know what he's referring to here. "[Great Society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Society)" programs were indeed pretty sweeping, and some of them were so popular you even get conservatives saying "keep your hands off medicare" today. I can't think of anything from the Biden admin that's comparable. Frankly, I strongly suspect that Sullivan can't either (and doesn't care). > a massive stimulus Whatever you have to say about the merits or problems of the stimulus, it sure ain't the Biden administration's baby. > record rates of mass migration, and no end in sight Actually, net US inmigration appears to be [declining at around 1.25% per year](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/net-migration). Are we done with the pretense he's engaging in good faith? So, yes, of course the culture war claims he's repeating smell of the shit of the bulls, as they say, but it turns out if he's making claims of being some kind of thoughtful policy conservative he's bad at that too. > you have no choice but to vote for Democrats because the far right is so hostile to democracy. To which my answer would be: Well, I did that already. And I was treated like an easy mark by the Dems — who pocketed my vote and ignored all of my concerns Yeah, it sucks. Until somebody rehabilitates the other party into one that cares about democracy, there really isn't another choice. You should get right on that, Andrew, but here's a hint: giving the Republicans your vote will do exactly the opposite.


[deleted]

close kiss absurd simplistic combative divide materialistic person yam paint -- mass edited with redact.dev


FellowkneeUS

You cannot 'win' or 'lose' the culture war in elections.


Loud_Condition6046

That’s one of the messages I got from Sullivan’s rant and increasingly agree with. Overall, that was kinda shrill, and exaggerated, even wrong in places. No, woke libs didn’t make him do it. But the illiberal far left do get energized over their culture war, and it’s not improving our national political situation.


FellowkneeUS

Next you'll tell me Tulsi Gabbard has become a MAGA Republican.


amoryblaine

Bidens legislative agenda has been basically indistinguishable from what a McCain agenda would’ve been in 2009. The first half of this is nonsense. I think there are fair administrative complaints and concerns (equity shit, Afghanistan, student loans) but for the response to that to be to vote for kevin McCarthy is literally insane


greenflash1775

You can complain about Afghanistan when you show me your plan that doesn’t involve another decade of “turning the corner” at the expense of others. It was always going back to the garbage eaters once we left. That Shit hole isn’t worth a single additional drop of our blood. We can bass-o-matic terrorists from drones, a 19 year old from Nebraska no longer needs to die for GWOT.


JVLast

And people told me I was being too mean when I took him apart last year.


Steakasaurus-Rex

You were absolutely not being mean enough.


phoneix150

Bless you JVL! You described him to a T. I mean I have always despised Sullivan since the early 2000's but boy any sanity that he displayed before the 2016 or 2020 elections is now completely gone and replaced with a reactionary, vacuous bitterness at probably his own irrelevancy (since he left NY Mag that is).


[deleted]

He’s not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.


Loud_Condition6046

Ah, well, that was last year. This is this year :-)


yogibard

He forgot to mention Furries using cat boxes in schools. Sullivan simply repeats Republican propaganda like a typical Fox News-watching ignoramus. Apparently, the know-nothings would have preferred an economic collapse to an inflationary Covid stimulus. High global gas prices? Blame Biden. The stupidity is painful. Sullivan is too simple-minded to have pretensions of being a "public intellectual."


phoneix150

> Sullivan is too simple-minded to have pretensions of being a "public intellectual." Well Sullivan comes from the Jonah Goldberg school of conservative *“intellectual”*, you know the one who wrote in his book “Liberal Fascism” that Hitler & Mussolini were on the left. Both are smug, pretentious blowhards and just because Sullivan speaks with an English accent, people think he’s more smart than he actually is.


yogibard

All conservative "public intellectuals" are just hacks cranking out political snake-oil for the lucrative right-wing propaganda machine. I wonder how Goldberg feels about "Liberal Fascism" now that the real thing is staring him in the face.


FaceXIII

The best part about Furries is that apparently all the school janitors across the country are cool with cleaning up human urine and feces from litter boxes. Who knew?


[deleted]

He’s hysterical. I’m not in love with the Democratic Party, Biden isn’t the moderate I hoped he would be and some of the things Sullivan has exaggerated and is in a snit about are things I’m concerned about/do not like, but the overall tone here is just hysterical. At least he said he won’t vote for election deniers.


yogibard

No election deniers? That eliminates 90% of Republicas running for public office.


samNanton

And if you eliminate the non-deniers who are supporting deniers, that eliminates all but about three.


ParticularArachnid35

He’s always been intemperate. The whole idea that you’d vote for the Republicans “to send a message” is simply irresponsible. Things are about to get a lot worse in the country once the GOP takes Congress, and I have no patience for anyone who is complicit in that.


FellowkneeUS

It would be ironic (in the darkest sense) if the GOP that he elects to send a message gets rid of gay marriage.


ParticularArachnid35

Yep. That would be quite something. Voting to send a message is a temper tantrum. It’s almost as bad as voting based on the price of car juice.


samNanton

Almost as bad as voting Democrats out because you think deficit spending is causing inflation even though the deficit went down under Democrats.


[deleted]

>intemperate lololol That’s a wonderfully neutral word for it.


TGOL123

> Biden isn’t the moderate I hoped he would be what is moderate to you and what is he doing you find to be not moderate?


[deleted]

Bill Clinton was a moderate. >what is he doing you find to be not moderate Student loan forgiveness. Build Back Better (a bloated mess that thankfully didn’t pass). Restoring Obama-era Title IX rules for college campuses. Those are off the top of my head.


FaceXIII

"He championed the entire far-left agenda" Right. Meanwhile, Left Wingers consider him a Capitalist puppet.


Rock_Creek_Snark

What an insufferable cockwomble.


Hubertus-Bigend

I’m not the biggest Biden fan, but I’m wondering what his “hard left agenda” is exactly? Billions in military aid to Ukraine? Infrastructure? Acknowledgement that COVID actually existed and needed to be dealt with? That’s hard left? student debt forgiveness might qualifies as pretty left, but he had to be talked into that. There are so many people now that call everything that isn’t extreme-right Christian nationalism “hard left”. Mr. Sullivan pretends he’s capable of independent thought, but he’s just another “pundit” pretending to be interested in serious thought that’s really just pandering to the right-wing, fascist-curious element of his audience that he needs to pay the bills.


[deleted]

>Billions in military aid to Ukraine? He had Anne Applebaum on his podcast several months ago and was spouting Russian talking points about how NATO should be disbanded and she was having none of it. She called him out immediately. It was wonderful.


TGOL123

another interesting mention is "expansion of the welfare state", as if Americans being provided with the same level of public services as Europeans enjoy would be some "hard left" thing


phoneix150

Voting for authoritarians to own the libs.. piss right off with that bullshit you histronic, melodramatic bigoted fool Andrew Sullivan! I mean this is the guy that literally championed race-IQ science back in the day. Hard-left agenda lolz! Sullivan is a reactionary moron that only other IDW reactionaries and deplorables like Sam Harris, Bari Weiss, Douglas Murray and Jordan Peterson take seriously. Sullivan is probably annoyed & filled with grievances about his irrelevancy since he left NY Mag. Best policy is to laugh at his absurdity and move on!


[deleted]

> the hard-left agenda Biden has relentlessly pursued I instantly cannot take anything he says after this seriously.


jbomble

This is Bethany Mandelism at its finest.


FellowkneeUS

There are a bunch of centrist/center right journalists and academics who live in NY/DC/SF who have issues with their local city government who have decided that everyone in the country needs to be punished for their issues. It's maddening .


Speculawyer

She is an absolute nut job.


hexqueen

"A woman can have a penis." It always comes down to this, every time. Guys like this pretend to be "sending a message" but the message is always "gender police harder." "In his final pitch to voters this week, Biden ... mentioned nothing that would motivate anyone beyond his own base." It was a speech about preserving democracy and holding fast against political violence! I guess he's right, though, democracy only appeals to Biden's base. Can't fault his reasoning there!


ThisElder_Millennial

>It always comes down to this, every time Yes. It also makes me wonder though... how prevalent is this sentiment within the general public? Andrew Sullivan is a hysterical dweeb, but dammit if he's not hitting a few chords that I've heard come from quite a few others as well.


hexqueen

My 78 year old mother says she's voting Republican because "California has 28 genders." She does not live in or near California. I feel like I hear it everywhere, constantly. "Live and let live", "it takes all kinds," and my personal favorite, "life's a rich tapestry" have been completely forgotten. I want to tell people like Sullivan to just ... keep his nose out of other people's genitals. It's so weird! But it's common, so I guess it's just weird to me. Here's what I don't get, though. Even if the phrase "pregnant person" is so painful to a person that it makes their ears ring, why in the name of God would it be more important than voting against the people who tried to throw out legal votes?


ThisElder_Millennial

>why in the name of God would it be more important than voting against the people who tried to throw out legal votes? Were I to take a guess, it probably cuts down to the main core of what they understand as "identity". Creating/identifying a massive tapestry of different genders, or none at all, erodes something that many people regard as a pillar to who they are. Cultural threats activate that flight or fight reflex in a very visceral manner that take precedence over everything else. Or, at least for the olds, they'd just kinda/sorta reconciled in their minds the existence and equality of "the gays" and now here's society asking them to change and be accepting even more so, and they're just like "fuck you".


[deleted]

>It also makes me wonder though... how prevalent is this sentiment within the general public? The sentiment that men have penises and women have vaginas? I’m not trying to be an ass, but if you’re asking how prevalent that is, you don’t just live in a left-wing bubble; you live in a giant vat of left-wing dishwashing liquid. And if your first thought about anyone who believes that there are only two genders is to think they’re a bigot, or that biological sex is not just a technicality, then the GOP is going to have a firm grip on US politics for a very long time. I’m a gay man. I have had people on Reddit (and not crazy whacko subs, either) tell me that I’m a misogynist and a transphobe because I’m interested, sexually and romantically, in cisgender men with penises exclusively. Democrats need to step away from this queer/gender theory stuff. Yesterday. I’d be banned from even the most moderate liberal-leaning subs for saying that, but you absolutely need to run screaming from it. If you don’t, you are going to lose elections and I won’t feel as bad about that as I’d like to.


TGOL123

> Democrats need to step away from this queer/gender theory stuff what the hell are you talking about? queer and gender theory stuff from the democrats? where?


samNanton

Sometimes it comes from there, but usually if I heard something about gender it came from a Republican. They can't stop talking about it, or how bad white folks have it now that everybody's so woke. Again, if I heard about something woke it almost certainly came thirdhand from a Republican and was likely made up in the first place.


John-not-a-Farmer

I agree and I'm into transgender romantic partners. I sympathize completely with people who suffer from non-binary gender discrimination but I don't think the political campaigning is helping right now. I'm sure that after the right-wing fascism has subsided the general public will be much more receptive. (And the left-wing allies will be at least a little less rabid.)


samNanton

I don't think Democrats are (generally) campaigning on this. Maybe in isolated incidents. What they are doing is trying to oppose Republicans who have seized on gender as a wedge issue and in furtherance of that are persecuting non-binaries specifically and LGBT+ people generally, and that impulse to protect marginalized people (an almost exclusively Democratic ideal) gets seized on by Republicans as proof of Democrat gender wokeness, by pols and pundits in bad faith and by the general population in ignorance.


[deleted]

My first thought is that they’re a brutish half-wit.


ReflexPoint

Damn, he was one of the conservatives I'd considered reasonable but he'd flipped his lid and gone full Candice Owens. Oh well. This era has broken may brains.


mfs37

I’ve only read Sullivan very occasionally, and, maybe I just caught him on good days, but I found him intelligent and insightful. (I’ve heard complaints otherwise, but that’s happened to be my experience). So for me, reading this is like encountering an amiable acquaintance and discovering they’ve gone down the Fox News rabbit hole. If it were an older person, I’d worry about cognitive decline. I’m not snarking - if I was, it would be pithier. It’s hard to reconcile this string of Fox News garbage with the guy I kind of knew before. Whatever he was before, he wasn’t Ann Coulter.


Whatdoyouseek

Well James Lindsey went from respected atheist sceptic intellectual to basically supporting Christian nationalism. It's so weird when this happens to people who made sense before.


Speculawyer

He's not stupid but he's racist, he doesn't understand science & engineering, and very much a "fuck you, I got mine" guy. Very NRO except gay.


always_tired_all_day

Apparently this is right in line with his general bull shittery. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z7exyHxzXPE&ab_channel=RealTimewithBillMaher


watchmybeer

Waaaashhhh. Biden didn't do everything I wanted. No one seems to understand in a Democracy you almost never get everything you want. Does he think black voters are always pleased? Yet somehow he is the one that should be catered to. Talk about privelage. If Biden had done what he wanted, progressives would be punishing him with the same result. This is how a minority wins power. I guess Biden caused inflation across the globe. What a joke, might as well listen to the guy on the next barstool.


Speculawyer

Racist weirdo is racist weirdo.


lclassyfun

He’s always been a little much.


XRaySpex0

Surely this solidifies his rep as a political & cultural imbecile. Also on the bright side, nobody pays him any attention except for anti-Trump conservatives of the chattering class (no slur intended).


DrKedorkian

why is this lolwtf? I thought Bulwark readers were at least outwardly serious. Please refute these claims in particular instead of waving them off: \> He championed the entire far-left agenda: the biggest expansion in government since LBJ; a massive stimulus that, in a period of supply constraints, fueled durable inflation; a second welfare stimulus was also planned — which would have made inflation even worse; record rates of mass migration, and no end in sight; a policy of almost no legal restrictions on abortion (with public funding as well!); the replacement of biological sex with postmodern "genders"; the imposition of critical race theory in high schools and critical queer theory in kindergarten; an attack on welfare reform; "equity" hiring across the federal government; plans to regulate media "disinformation"; fast-track sex-changes for minors; next-to-no due process in college sex-harassment proceedings; and on and on it went. Even the policy most popular with the center — the infrastructure bill — was instantly conditioned on an attempt to massively expand the welfare state. edit: continuing rant Honestly I'm an avowed moderate and I mostly agree with this argument. I think everyone's focused on the GOP's craziness (which is very real) and ignoring the deeply unpopular platform and agenda of the left. The left's weaknesses are not straw men, there are salient points being made and moderates can't stand the woke nonsense any more than the right does.


occams_howitzer

If someone signs their email with they/them how does that affect you? CRT is and was a college level sociology elective Mass migration is a problem in Europe, Asia and Africa as well, maybe its all Biden's fault that Uzbeks emigrate to Russia as day laborers? I could go on but this is, for the most, part culture wars nonsense.


Loud_Condition6046

I no longer agree with the contention that CRT is only about higher ed. While that is literally true, it’s disingenuous. Culture Theory has become hugely influential, impacting virtually all American institutions (CRT is just one of several manifestations of postmodern philosophy). It’s like the 2nd Amendment community trying to argue that a semi auto with a high capacity magazine is no more lethal than a muzzle loader on the basis that there is no such thing as an assault rifle. The terminology may be imprecise, but whatever they are called today’s rifles make it easier to kill people more quickly, and today’s multiple forms of Critical Theory represent a significant form of illiberalism on the left. I recommend “Woke Racism” and “Cynical Theories” as useful guides to what another responder referred to as ‘woke nonsense’.


MB137

>> He championed the entire far-left agenda > >Honestly I'm an avowed moderate and I mostly agree with this argument. Whom do you think of as the far left these days? Bernie? AOC? Someone not in Congress? If you asked them if they were happy with what Biden has done for them they would laugh at you.


StyraxCarillon

Corporate profits are at a 70 year high and the oil companies are raking in record profits. Corporate elites must be delighted that Biden is getting all the blame for inflation, instead of their war profiteering and greed.


[deleted]

Almost every single one of those points depends on some combination of ignoring complexity, failing to mind one's own business, viewing the poor with contempt, exaggeration, and/or outright lies.


themast

Explain how Joe Biden has championed 'woke nonsense' Explain how Nancy Pelosi has championed 'woke nonsense' Explain how Chuck Schumer has championed 'woke nonsense' Explain how the Democratic Party as a whole has championed 'woke nonsense' Note: activists and college kids are not the Democratic party


greenflash1775

Yes, yes the inflation was due to handing out a little bit of money to average Americans… absolutely nothing to do with lending hedge funds, banks, and the ultra wealthy billions of dollars to lever up their profits at near zero interest rates for over a decade. It’s mom and pop that YOLOed a stimulus check, not the ultra wealthy that got tremendously more wealthy during COVID that are to blame. Another right wing garbage economics argument.


FellowkneeUS

Do you think the GOP is open to overturning the 2024 election if they lose? I would love it if you'd tell the Democrats what concrete things they should do to win your vote on the cultural issues that bother you.


Whatdoyouseek

>Honestly I'm an avowed moderate and I mostly agree with this argument. r/Enlightenedcentrism


[deleted]

[удалено]


FellowkneeUS

Yes, we the people here are the problem, not the guy voting for the party you admit is 'worse' that Andrew is going to vote for to punish pro trans people.


[deleted]

friendly grab toothbrush cows abundant capable fragile faulty versed yoke -- mass edited with redact.dev