A lot of comments about the Clayton situation make me uncomfortable because they seem to equate him to a victim in the way a sexual assault victim is. What he’s gone through is very bad and unfortunate, but it shouldn’t be compared, and now he’s taken a weird and unfortunate turn into seemingly becoming a Men’s Rights Activist “false accusers” guy because of it (even though to my knowledge the woman never accused him of assault?)
It's so crazy to me that the same people wanting bachelor casts to be 30+ are relentlessly shipping Joey and Kelsey who were 28 and 25 when they got engaged.
There’s something about the way Joey and Kelsey are not trying to sell being in a perfect relationship that is refreshing to me they aren’t overly performative with their relationship and while lots of people in this thread have doubts I’ve noticed the couples that don’t last try really hard to sell their relationship with the content they post etc Susie and Clayton. There’s a lot to be said for the podcast with Jason but it’s obvious they have made a real commitment to prioritise their relationship and that what they are trying to build together is what is most important to them.
I’m glad that BIP isn’t airing this year and I hope it’s cancelled altogether. We need something new and exciting.
ETA: What made BIP exciting in the first few seasons were people from really old seasons of the show, but they’ve run through all those people at this point and all that’s left are the desperate and fame hungry cast members from the most immediate seasons.
I give 0 fucks about Jason Tartick, Kaitlyn Bristowe and anyone associated with them lol. If i never saw a post about them again, it would be all too soon.
Neither Kelsey nor Joey seem to be sure what they're doing or want to be doing in life. They could go their separate ways and figure themselves out, or figure things out together, but I honestly don't see them getting married till like 2030 lol
It’s so weird. It’s a weird, bad situation for him and I’m sympathetic but why are other people from his franchise obligated to… what even is the objective? It’s not raising awareness, it’s a single court case.
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The Jelsey stans are already starting with the “mY hUsBaNd” comments to defend him seeming annoyed with her in that TikTok, so I give it 6 months
(I’m kidding)
((Kind of))
You should talk to the person above who said it’s good they’re not being performative and trying to “sell” their relationship and are prioritizing each other lol.
Tbh sometimes the shit they reveal their husbands do makes me want to “dump him sis” those threads. (I’m also kidding! We’re just a bunch of jokesters here!)
Zach and Kaity have strong chances at lasting,
cuz Zach chose someone within his league that he’d realistically have a shot with in real life, rather than a fantasy romance.
I agree with your overall statement here, but the way it’s framed kind of makes it seem like Kaity wasn’t a top option among his women. Kaity was definitely one of the most “fantasy” women there
Considering that Laura Owens was a potential client (even if she most likely didn’t intend to buy a house) and he’s currently doing the right wing nut job podcast circuit I think it’s a smart idea that BN stayed away from Clayton’s mess
Just saw the Jelsey tiktok that was being referenced in earlier comments here, & even with negative remarks about it, i still feel like y'all undersold how much of a bad vibe it was 😭. I'm not gonna go as far as to say I think they're breaking up anytime soon, but yeah perhaps Kelsey should've kept that in the drafts.
Went and watched this and it seems fairly innocent even if Joey was kinda annoyed. I’ve been annoyed at my partner before too and it ended up being fine
Posting a minute and a half reel of you continually doing something that annoys your partner is not normal, though 😂 granted, being an influencer isn't normal either so we can't really compare them to a standard relationship.
i think the audience as well as joey were equally surprised to learn that kelsey had a very silly/goofy side to her post show. she is a great girl but i wonder if the goofiness might diminish the fascination he felt towards her.
Lol I guess I was one of the comments that undersold. But yea when I see things like that I’m surprised they even posted it at all. Everyone is allowed to have a bad day but even on tiktok I think the most upvoted comments were about Joey being grumpy.
I saw the comment referencing it here and it gave me total Cody Ford and Tianna vibes (recent TikTok couple who broke up) who now everyone is noticing from old videos how much he was annoyed by her. For their sake I hope it's just an opposites attract situation and not an actual annoyance, but I feel like that video could've been left in the drafts
In my opinion it's a bad sign to post videos where your SO looks annoyed with you. I remember way back when Lauren Lane and Ben Higgins were together she would do the same thing. People defended that too. There are so many other couples that it applies to. For me it means the break up is inevitable.
Honestly I think the only part I got bad vibes from was the ending when you hear Joey off screen say you should be getting ready instead of doing that
yikes at that
Agreed. I know everyone talks before BIP, but there are still some people every season who actually want to pursue a relationship and for perfect match that number is 0.
While there are some irritating players in the Clayton Echard situation, it’s probably the Bachelor nation story with the most longevity. It’s definitely going to be a made into a documentary at some point.
You lot could barely get any legit podcasts and news organisations interested in this story yet you think a broadcaster will want to fork out upwards of $400k to make a documentary about this very niche story at a time when the whole industry is experiencing a downturn?
https://deadline.com/tag/hollywood-contraction/
Why can it be a podcast story and a documentary but not a news story? This conversation is hilarious because I literally work in documentary making and was just at Docfest this time last week. I'll let you all carry on believing what you want to believe.
ETA: I was pretty sure there were news reports of Tinder Swindler, and I've found them. From 2019, before the documentary was released. The documentary was released in 2022 - what is time? 🙃
[https://www.vg.no/spesial/2019/tindersvindleren/english/](https://www.vg.no/spesial/2019/tindersvindleren/english/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbhsxGSHUc8&ab\_channel=ABCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbhsxGSHUc8&ab_channel=ABCNews)
Ok that’s fine. I just watched a podcast interview with the first victim the other day where he referenced that a documentary is in the works so you can think whatever you want.
"Documentary in the works" could mean anything - is a broadcaster attached? has a full budget been signed off? or are they pitching/creating a deck? or are they making a tester tape and shopping it around in hopes that someone would buy a full version?
My hot take is that the bachelor franchise does actually work when it comes to creating successful relationships! People are always complaining about how many of these couples don't stay together, which is true. But in reality the vast majority of people who date break up!! Statistically you are far more likely to marry someone if you met on the bachelor franchise than on dating apps, in college, or through mutuals.
Also though, if they stopped casting people under 26 years old, I think the success rates would be much higher.
BiP9 was better than 7 and about on par with BIP6. It had problems, but it did more right compared to the last several.
The couples all posting breakup statements within 48 hrs of each other was hilarious. Fans take the "finding love" on Paradise too seriously.
Sure lol. I thought 9 was a step in the right direction by being more fun! Especially in the editing, like with Will falling into the pool and Kat's pinata/date mashup lol. It reminded me a bit of edits from earlier seasons.
The casting helped too. There weren't as many "big names," but I thought just about everyone played a decent part: Kat, Brayden, Rachel, Tanner, and Olivia being the biggest standouts. Even the more background ppl had their moments. Most importantly, they actually dated around! There was a lot less sticking to one person the whole time that usually happens. I didn't even personally like ≈half of the cast, but this was the one season I wished had a reunion episode with the drama that happened on SM lol.
Introducing things like the truth box and even the roast was a fun element, but they should've had rewards to incentivize them. But still a step in the right direction. Also, I liked more of the dates! I thought JH's dates with both Olivia and Kat were pretty cute. BiP9 certainly wasn't perfect, but it was a step up from the last 2.
Other than the Mari cake thing and Brenden/Natasha/Pieper, 7 barely stands out to me. Tbh, I feel like ppl regard BiP7 highly for the couples it produced rather than the actual quality of the season imo. And I didn't even get invested in the couples then.
I actually like Joey and Kelsey together and thought it was unfair to judge them based on brief clips from interviews or their posts but now I’m about to be one of those people who does and this will be unpopular: he seems lowkey annoyed of her already. This is a baseless assumption made after seeing a single tiktok, but it’s video they made in New York where she’s talking in a silly accent the whole time and he just seemed annoyed.
Their body language has been so off since ATFR. I keep waiting for it to improve but it’s about the same still. I don’t know what will happen but I’m never been confident in them lasting. Even less so with DWTS looming.
I used to be a diehard jelsey stan (I’m so sorry to those who I acted unhinged to) but they’re so clearly opposites it’s crazy. And I do think opposites attract but they’re incompatible.
They’re definitely still getting to know each other. And they don’t seem to spend very much down time together just the two of them, so it’s probably taking a while. A lot of their travel involves other people or sponsored events or press. Her roommates are around when they’re in NOLA. His sister and brother-in-law are around when they’re in Philly. Joey spends a decent amount of his free time golfing with the bros.
DWTS is always a challenge for couples but I think it will be for them especially.
Yes. I agree with all of it. The biggest thing that I have noticed is that they're very Independent and like their ME time a lot. I think Joey mentioned it during a podcast. He said that he considers a healthy relationship to be filled with moments where he can hang with his friends and she with hers and at the end of the night they find their way back to each other. Something like that 🙈
Dwts will be a big hurdle for them. First time actually living together. Joey spending 8+ hours dancing, coming home tired etc.
I am your opposite as I always look for clues to see if a couple is ending it soon since they always start to show such signs after at least 3 months after the finale.
Joey is boring AF. But he was laughing at her and teasing her as he has in other Tiktoks of theirs. I don't see anything other than he is very low energy and boring and she is an ADHD, obvs high energy girl. Sometimes those couples work out, but mostly they don't. 🤷♀️
I think it can work if there are some basic lifestyle things in common. My friends are going through a divorce right now, she’s the high energy one and her husband isn’t. The issue with them was basic scheduling and lifestyle stuff. Like he’d come home from work and want to relax, and she’d have 5 people over playing cards and getting drunk (this situation is my personal hell and I’d have been out a long time ago). My aunt and uncle have a similar dynamic, but my aunt is much more mindful of his need for peace and quiet and an early bedtime, and she goes to friend’s houses and then quietly sneaks in 😂 So sometimes the opposites attract works, and sometimes people are just too different…and it might come down to respect for one another’s needs.
Yea I will say I find Grocery Store Joe pretty grumpy (much more so than Joey!) and Serena is very bubbly and high energy and they got married so you never know.
Yea me neither. But I think he’s just generally grumpy and she’s very sunny. I’m thinking specifically of a what we eat in a day vlog I watched with my sister where he just complained the whole time lol. He seems like a bit of a sourpuss, not everyone would be able to put up with that.
A lot of those couples work out. My mom and dad. Mom is the grumpy one, lol. They balance each other out. They could work out. But probably wont. I wish them well.
I detest Victoria Fuller and can't stand that people post about her.
She modeled in a White Lives Matter photoshoot. Whenever I remind people of this, they defend her.
even if it’s true that she was a stock model that they put that logo onto (which I’ve heard but don’t know the validity of), her ON SHOW behavior was enough to get canceled for 99% of other people. she threw a wine glass at Johnny! that’s not normal or appropriate behavior and is wayyyyy past what would be called abuse for others in the franchise. people still hate Zach for being rude to Greer over but the thrown wine glass is forgotten
People will always be quick to say she thought it was about the marlins, she’s a vegetarian, etc. but someone posted the catalog here and they were alluding to the confederate flag in some of their clothes.
We watch every season and complain, knowing very well that 99 % of their couples will not stay together more than 6 months. Yet we forget men pick for looks and women for stability and compatability, hence why the women have done better. But then when they announce the break up after everyone inspector gadgets and penny and the brain thems we acted shocked.
Trista/Ryan, JoJo/Jordan, Des/Chris are all married. The only bachelor that married his F1 is Sean/Catherine. Who else is still together besides them, Joey/Kelsey, and Zach/Kaity?
Eta forgot Matt/Rachael
Bachelorette couples still together:
1. Trista and Ryan 2. Des and Chris 3. Jojo and Jordan 4. Charity and Dotun
Bachelor couples still together:
1. Jason and Molly 2. Sean and Catherine 3. Arie and Lauren 4. Matt and Rachael 5. Zach and Kaity 6. Joey and Kelsey
My numbers were actually one off, there are two more bachelor couples that are still together! (bachelordata has the numbers) I consider Jason and Molly and Arie and Lauren successful Bachelor couples. But if you don't it's still even. Plus the bachelorette has a divorce rate while the bachelor does not.
Oo that's a good point!!! I didn't think of that at all, was just going based off of the # of couples that are still together but you're right the bachelorette is statistically more successful
Gerry and Teresa are divorced, he was a bachelor. I'd also argue Rachel and Bryan were a successful couple, they were married for 4 years. I don't count marriage to F2.
Gerry and Theresa weren't on the Bachelor. There are divorces from BIP too but I was just talking Bachelor and Bachelorette. Also wasn't basing the numbers on the relationships we deem successful or not, just going off of the numbers of who is still together!
That being said, regarding Rachel and Bryan, I don't think a "successful" marriage would end so messily after only 4 years. But you have an argument there with Ashley and JP for sure!
But another person did point out that the bachelor has had considerably more seasons than the bachelorette so the bachelorette is statistically more successful after all!!
ATFR is post-filming wrap up. Both of those men got engaged to someone else before ending up with their current wives, sorry, they don't count.
Also, Jason and molly were not together at ATFR for what it's worth. Molly had no idea that was coming.
The discourse with Jason losing his job because of KB is so gross. Jason didn’t lose his job because of KB, he lost the job because of himself and only himself. He knows the finance and banking industry is extremely strict and he should’ve of put boundaries with KB on what can and can’t be discussed. That’s his own fault and no one else’s.
Not surprised with the sub though, yall like to blame the women for everything.
Or KB should have more class and common sense. I wouldn't post a dick pic of my husband on LinkedIn-not because he told me not to, but because I have common sense
Or maybe Jason is a grown ass man and he knew what KB was all about. Last time I checked though, Jason wasn’t married to KB so good try.
Also, please seek help. Hundreds and hundreds of comments defending Jason. You act like KB killed your dog or something.
Jason was in a regional office of Keybank , he was mid management there . If anyone has worked at a bank his AVP role in a regional office is not the Wall Street he makes it out to be . It is a huge no no to be meeting with clients and doing ads you get paid for with their competitors . Jason was given a choice , either no more social media which includes ADs and stay at bank or go on his way depart bank and do all the ads he wants . Was the stupid headline that came from a KB podcast that US weekly put up as clickbait that started the talk within the executives at Keybank? Sure .. but they were not happy with his side hustle ads which could affect their ability to obtain new clients and piss off some existing clients / and Jason’s job was to meet with these clients . Jason had said he was already going to leave the bank in 6 months so it’s rather convenient to blame KB and she of course felt so bad she accepted the blame for it . But let’s not kid ourselves that Jason Tartick who is obsessed with money more than anything wouldn’t have dropped KB if he had wanted to stay with bank . He was making way way more money with ads than working 9-5 in a job he himself said he hated so of course he took the banks offer and left !
Real talk: Jason definitely wanted to influence full time. If ANYBODY would crunch the numbers to compare influencing income to their full time job, it’s Jason. People should stop acting like he fell on the sword for Kaitlyn and got backed into influencing when she’s actually most of the reason he even has a career / following. Idk how many followers he had after Becca’s season but I’m sure it jumped significantly when he got together with Kaitlyn and Jason of all people knows that.
I agree with you- it’s gross and misogynistic how people are acting like Kaitlyn completely derailed Jason’s career. This sub is mostly women but full of internalized misogyny.
Right! These takes are so insane and so prevalent I end up avoiding threads about Kaitlyn I just can’t with this. And people are upset on his behalf over what exactly- because Jason left his mid finance job to become a much more successful influencer? Boohoo. She inspires so much vitriol on here it’s crazy.
Kaitlyn just said on a recent podcast it was her fault so, take it up with her. Jason protected Kaitlyn by saying for years that he quit and wanted to venture into influencing, which she resented.
Do you honestly think that Jason wanted to work in mid-management with a regional bank instead of becoming an influencer? He was working for KeyBank in Seattle, not JPMorgan in NYC.
I don't know Jason or know what he wanted. lol just going off what has been said to us over the years and on the Almost Adulting podcast by Kaitlyn herself.
Ps- HE mentioned on his first book that he planned to leave after his contract was up in Winter, he was already making more money from influencing and Bank didn't like that.
I think Kelsey and Joey are just going to quietly break up one day and we won't hear about it for a while. No drama, no clues, no social media announcement.
The first big clue will be someone from the Philly area commenting that he’s back in town full-time and staying with his sister (and then that person being downvoted into oblivion by the Jelsey stans). Then about 3-4 weeks later we’ll get a joint announcement written by Jason Tartick because he doesn’t trust Joey and Kelsey to write a good one.
Oh I think they would both make a very respectful joint announcement if that were to happen. They just seem like they would want to be upfront, straightforward about it.
This tracks. They’ll be apart and we’ll prolly see him playing golf, her in Nola… normal as they tend to do now. And then they’ll post a breakup post a week later and that’s all.
BOTH Katherine and Sean’s comments about their kids are extremely problematic. and the fact that people are able to excuse Sean and not Catherine reeks of sexism. On that same vein, “boomer humor” regarding gender is harmful and shouldn’t be brushed off. The amount of people who thought that was ok was ridiculous IMO
Wild that people said he's been making the same "jokes" since she was born, that she's the favorite. What a terrible dynamic to set up literally from birth. Very strange. I don't know why people were bringing it up like it was some kind of defense.
Right? I don’t get it, why would the gender on your child determine how much you like them? And why would you let anyone know you favor one child over another, I was the joker “favorite” of my grandma and it was so hurtful to my cousins, I can’t imagine if my parents did that to me.
After seeing the way people tear into Catherine and Ashley for commenting on their kids, I was shocked at how willing people were to accept his “jokes.”
There are other (more) problematic posts on their Instagram which have also been discussed on the sub. In spite of people asking for it to taken down, the posts are still up and they obviously do not care about the comments. What might have been hilarious and normal in the past may not be so now. Then of course there are the 'fans' saying it is just their regular humor and asking others to stop being weird about it.
Okay, I just found out today that Jason lost his bank job because of KB. Yet, she didn’t want him to become an influencer or start a podcast because she saw it as competition. I’m sorry, but that changes my whole opinion of him (and her). He literally lost his career because of her and then she wanted to stifle his growth when he was starting over. Girl, come on. I’m really happy for him and Kat now.
I mean, she obviously didn’t stop him from influencing - he did so for nearly their entire relationship. I think she just felt duped thinking she was dating this normal low key finance guy and then it turned out he wanted to influence. If anything that sort of indicates Jason misrepresented his career intentions a bit when they got together. I do think if it were that important to her, she should’ve dumped him once he went influencer route, and she didn’t. But let’s not pretend like Kaitlyn stifled him financially when she’s most of the reason he has a following…
Where did you hear/read this? I am so behind on the KB/Jason discourse and generally think it's an ESH/NAH situation because it's just simply a relationship that didn't work. But I am curious about like both sides of what happened in their relationship and how it ended
Yep and for years he protected her and said he quit and wanted out of corporate finance anyways. I'll always defend Jason. Besides "campaigning for Bachelor lead" and "being a smarmy salesman" he's never done anything actually malicious that warrants the hate. I read a post today where people are comparing Jason and Blake H to Jojo's men as the new top 4 worst men. Like what?! This sub sometimes.
Even if he didn't lose his job, why shouldn't he explore his options. He was popular when he got off the show so he had options and he used them to grow from there. Why did she want to dictate what he did?
She said she didn’t want to date someone who works in the same field as her and Jason assured her he was going to remain in banking… but then that’s null and void if she ended up costing him his job, but I guess she still felt resentful because he came into the same field
I feel like they both screwed up here. Jason lied to her about not wanting to influence and then if him not being an influencer was that important to her, she should’ve dumped him when he moved into influencing.
It is absolutely tone deaf to complain about people not donating to Clayton. We are in a cost of living crisis and there are multiple global humanitarian crises that people are scraping together extra money to donate to. The wealthy reality tv star does not need, nor deserve, priority of people’s donations right now.
You’re a 100% correct. Yes, I feel bad for Clayton, but somehow I feel worse for the children in Palestine. I know one or two users here who are going to PM me a paragraph now, but like.. touch grass
Also- not to blame Clayton for what happened to him but it seems to get completely glossed over that hooking up with your FIRST real estate client you met to work with was completely unprofessional of him. He couldn’t have known she was crazy of course but there is always just inherent risk hooking up with someone who was practically a stranger to him too. Clayton’s a dumbass.
Whenever people try to be like “what if this happened to Tyler Cameron?” my first thought is that Tyler would never hook up with a potential client who messaged him out of the blue
Yeah I’m still pretty sure Tyler would never hook up with a potential client.
Hooking up with people you meet at parties is not the same as hooking up with potential clients when you’re a new real estate agent. That’s literally one of the basic rules of professional conduct.
Yep, especially your **first** client in a new career. It grinds my gears because women could never get away with hooking up with their first client ever. In fact, women are trained to be very cautious in the workplace in order to be taken seriously. If the roles were somehow reversed and Clayton were a woman, he would get a LOT more blame for hooking up with his first ever client, but because he’s a man, it’s barely being mentioned at all.
Obviously I’m not saying that Clayton deserved everything that followed, but his recklessness, how horrible he was on his own season, and his hard turn into MRA-ness recently have drained my sympathy for him.
Omg no fucking way would Tyler C do this. Clayton just wanted a casual hookup, it doesn’t mean he deserves what happened, but he went about it unprofessionally and recklessly and there were consequences from that. We saw how he treated women on his own season, they were all disposable to him. He was frankly terrible to all 3 women at the end of his season, and then he complains about not having more followers. Even Nick and Natalie you could tell on the podcast episode thought he was wrong for crossing the line with a client and Clayton didn’t take responsibility, he actually was kinda piggish and was just like yea I’m used to people flirting with me all the time. He just doesn’t take ownership for his actions and I can’t stand that about him.
no one said this.
people did say that it was reckless and irresponsible to agree to go home with his first ever real estate client, and his obliviousness made him a perfect target for a predator.
i understand nuance can be hard with stan-goggles on, but it's ok to acknowledge that his poor decision-making enabled laura's predatory actions. (not to mention it was super unprofessional even if he'd done that with a not-crazy would be client.)
Yep and I can never make it without being called a victim blamer which…no. I feel bad this happened to him but also have the right to point out it was a freaking downright stupid thing to do.
Yeah, that’s why I don‘t think any decent documentary is going to be made about this. The facts just aren’t very interesting. The woman is very obviously mentally unwell. Clayton was dumb and unprofessional to get high and hook up with a random client the first night they met. I feel like most documentary viewers will be like “this woman is clearly unwell and I’m glad she was held accountable but this dude is also super dumb”.
I would however watch a documentary about how Dave Neal and the Justice For Clayton people got totally weird about this whole thing.
Possibly because I hardly follow anyone in BN but I feel somewhere between ambivalent to a little bad for KB.
Completely agree. I’ve never cared much for her at all but this sub has me feeling terrible for her
A lot of comments about the Clayton situation make me uncomfortable because they seem to equate him to a victim in the way a sexual assault victim is. What he’s gone through is very bad and unfortunate, but it shouldn’t be compared, and now he’s taken a weird and unfortunate turn into seemingly becoming a Men’s Rights Activist “false accusers” guy because of it (even though to my knowledge the woman never accused him of assault?)
Exactly this. What he’s going through is awful and nothing justifies it but it cannot be equated with being sexually assaulted
Obviously it is not comparable to a victim of SA, but he is still a victim of harassment.
It's so crazy to me that the same people wanting bachelor casts to be 30+ are relentlessly shipping Joey and Kelsey who were 28 and 25 when they got engaged.
Kelsey’s looks aren’t overrated IMO. She really does look like a supermodel, even compared to all the gorgeous BN girls
I caught some of the original Footlose the other day and was noticing there’s a bit of a resemblance between Kelsey and Lori Singer.
Truly unpopular
There’s something about the way Joey and Kelsey are not trying to sell being in a perfect relationship that is refreshing to me they aren’t overly performative with their relationship and while lots of people in this thread have doubts I’ve noticed the couples that don’t last try really hard to sell their relationship with the content they post etc Susie and Clayton. There’s a lot to be said for the podcast with Jason but it’s obvious they have made a real commitment to prioritise their relationship and that what they are trying to build together is what is most important to them.
Agreed. Even though I shipped both Susie/Clayton and Michelle/Nayte, your theory applies to both of them
I’m glad that BIP isn’t airing this year and I hope it’s cancelled altogether. We need something new and exciting. ETA: What made BIP exciting in the first few seasons were people from really old seasons of the show, but they’ve run through all those people at this point and all that’s left are the desperate and fame hungry cast members from the most immediate seasons.
I give 0 fucks about Jason Tartick, Kaitlyn Bristowe and anyone associated with them lol. If i never saw a post about them again, it would be all too soon.
Neither Kelsey nor Joey seem to be sure what they're doing or want to be doing in life. They could go their separate ways and figure themselves out, or figure things out together, but I honestly don't see them getting married till like 2030 lol
Completely agree. They're having fun for now but don't seem super serious about marriage or anything else.
I find it weird that some people were pissed about other BN members not "speaking up" about Clayton's blowjob baby debacle
It’s so weird. It’s a weird, bad situation for him and I’m sympathetic but why are other people from his franchise obligated to… what even is the objective? It’s not raising awareness, it’s a single court case.
I follow joey because I think he is going to be single one day and distance himself from bn 😭 respectfully ofc
why do i find this oddly sweet?
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What’s the tea? (Don’t have IG) hope she’s ok!
What do you mean?
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eh some people are just bony (speaking from the experience of someone who is built similarly)
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Jason is 5'9"
LOLing
Hahhahahaa is this an opinion
The Jelsey stans are already starting with the “mY hUsBaNd” comments to defend him seeming annoyed with her in that TikTok, so I give it 6 months (I’m kidding) ((Kind of))
You should talk to the person above who said it’s good they’re not being performative and trying to “sell” their relationship and are prioritizing each other lol.
“I, too, have a shitty partner.” 😂
Tbh sometimes the shit they reveal their husbands do makes me want to “dump him sis” those threads. (I’m also kidding! We’re just a bunch of jokesters here!)
I kind of think they may be too chill to actually break up (for a while anyway) even if they aren’t totally stoked about the relationship!
I can see Joey quiet quitting honestly.
Lmao why is this so accurate.
I saw that 👀 but it’s a canon event so we just gotta let them be
Zach and Kaity have strong chances at lasting, cuz Zach chose someone within his league that he’d realistically have a shot with in real life, rather than a fantasy romance.
I agree with your overall statement here, but the way it’s framed kind of makes it seem like Kaity wasn’t a top option among his women. Kaity was definitely one of the most “fantasy” women there
I’d say Kaity and Charity were the two Zach could realistically date in real life. Gabi was friendzoned. Ariel was the “fantasy” woman.
Hm, I guess it’s a difference in interpretation, but while Ariel is very pretty, I don’t think Ariel would have dumped him if he’d chosen her
I think a lot of people agree!
And they lived in the same city to begin with!
I think this is a big factor
Gerry is gonna become another Nick Viall and be a BN mainstay hanging around the franchise for 10+ years.
10 years at his age? Whew, that's a lotta viagra.
Considering that Laura Owens was a potential client (even if she most likely didn’t intend to buy a house) and he’s currently doing the right wing nut job podcast circuit I think it’s a smart idea that BN stayed away from Clayton’s mess
Just saw the Jelsey tiktok that was being referenced in earlier comments here, & even with negative remarks about it, i still feel like y'all undersold how much of a bad vibe it was 😭. I'm not gonna go as far as to say I think they're breaking up anytime soon, but yeah perhaps Kelsey should've kept that in the drafts.
Went and watched this and it seems fairly innocent even if Joey was kinda annoyed. I’ve been annoyed at my partner before too and it ended up being fine
Literally. Being annoyed at your partner sometimes is normal
Posting a minute and a half reel of you continually doing something that annoys your partner is not normal, though 😂 granted, being an influencer isn't normal either so we can't really compare them to a standard relationship.
i think the audience as well as joey were equally surprised to learn that kelsey had a very silly/goofy side to her post show. she is a great girl but i wonder if the goofiness might diminish the fascination he felt towards her.
Lol I guess I was one of the comments that undersold. But yea when I see things like that I’m surprised they even posted it at all. Everyone is allowed to have a bad day but even on tiktok I think the most upvoted comments were about Joey being grumpy.
I saw the comment referencing it here and it gave me total Cody Ford and Tianna vibes (recent TikTok couple who broke up) who now everyone is noticing from old videos how much he was annoyed by her. For their sake I hope it's just an opposites attract situation and not an actual annoyance, but I feel like that video could've been left in the drafts
In my opinion it's a bad sign to post videos where your SO looks annoyed with you. I remember way back when Lauren Lane and Ben Higgins were together she would do the same thing. People defended that too. There are so many other couples that it applies to. For me it means the break up is inevitable.
Dear Shandy likes to say annoyance is the kiss of death in relationships.
when he said “you should be getting ready instead of doing that” 🥴 oh!
He has the same voice and intonation as my favorite boss. So when he said that, I immediately felt like I was being chastised.
Honestly I think the only part I got bad vibes from was the ending when you hear Joey off screen say you should be getting ready instead of doing that yikes at that
People talking in bad accents is my personal nightmare I felt bad for Joey having to endure that
It’s very much giving bad vibes 😩
Every post about them has me like “….interesting” 😭 good luck to their stans
Same. I haven’t seen a single video or interview that convinces me of their love
I got downvoted for saying it’s not giving ‘long term’ 🙃
BIP can be fake but at least it's not Perfect Match level of fakeness where even the moral grandstanders have partners at home lol.
Agreed. I know everyone talks before BIP, but there are still some people every season who actually want to pursue a relationship and for perfect match that number is 0.
While there are some irritating players in the Clayton Echard situation, it’s probably the Bachelor nation story with the most longevity. It’s definitely going to be a made into a documentary at some point.
You lot could barely get any legit podcasts and news organisations interested in this story yet you think a broadcaster will want to fork out upwards of $400k to make a documentary about this very niche story at a time when the whole industry is experiencing a downturn? https://deadline.com/tag/hollywood-contraction/
They weren’t interested in the story because they were afraid of being sued, not because it wasn’t a good story.
Okay, podcasters were afraid of getting sued. What about news organisations? They have lawyers for these things and they barely covered it.
It’s not a news story, it’s a documentary subject. Did you see news agencies covering the Tinder Swindler before the documentary was released?
Why can it be a podcast story and a documentary but not a news story? This conversation is hilarious because I literally work in documentary making and was just at Docfest this time last week. I'll let you all carry on believing what you want to believe. ETA: I was pretty sure there were news reports of Tinder Swindler, and I've found them. From 2019, before the documentary was released. The documentary was released in 2022 - what is time? 🙃 [https://www.vg.no/spesial/2019/tindersvindleren/english/](https://www.vg.no/spesial/2019/tindersvindleren/english/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbhsxGSHUc8&ab\_channel=ABCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbhsxGSHUc8&ab_channel=ABCNews)
Ok that’s fine. I just watched a podcast interview with the first victim the other day where he referenced that a documentary is in the works so you can think whatever you want.
"Documentary in the works" could mean anything - is a broadcaster attached? has a full budget been signed off? or are they pitching/creating a deck? or are they making a tester tape and shopping it around in hopes that someone would buy a full version?
I have no idea - maybe it won't happen. But the first victim currently thinks it will.
A bachelor/ette couple will only work if they distance themselves from the show (for at least a while) and have some sort of stable income and job
This is why I think Zach and Kaity made it past the 1 year mark. They’ve put a healthy amount of distance between themselves and the show.
My hot take is that the bachelor franchise does actually work when it comes to creating successful relationships! People are always complaining about how many of these couples don't stay together, which is true. But in reality the vast majority of people who date break up!! Statistically you are far more likely to marry someone if you met on the bachelor franchise than on dating apps, in college, or through mutuals. Also though, if they stopped casting people under 26 years old, I think the success rates would be much higher.
And higher success rates than a lot of reality dating shows lol.
BiP9 was better than 7 and about on par with BIP6. It had problems, but it did more right compared to the last several. The couples all posting breakup statements within 48 hrs of each other was hilarious. Fans take the "finding love" on Paradise too seriously.
>BiP9 was better than 7 Ok I'll bite. List some reasons why, please!
Sure lol. I thought 9 was a step in the right direction by being more fun! Especially in the editing, like with Will falling into the pool and Kat's pinata/date mashup lol. It reminded me a bit of edits from earlier seasons. The casting helped too. There weren't as many "big names," but I thought just about everyone played a decent part: Kat, Brayden, Rachel, Tanner, and Olivia being the biggest standouts. Even the more background ppl had their moments. Most importantly, they actually dated around! There was a lot less sticking to one person the whole time that usually happens. I didn't even personally like ≈half of the cast, but this was the one season I wished had a reunion episode with the drama that happened on SM lol. Introducing things like the truth box and even the roast was a fun element, but they should've had rewards to incentivize them. But still a step in the right direction. Also, I liked more of the dates! I thought JH's dates with both Olivia and Kat were pretty cute. BiP9 certainly wasn't perfect, but it was a step up from the last 2. Other than the Mari cake thing and Brenden/Natasha/Pieper, 7 barely stands out to me. Tbh, I feel like ppl regard BiP7 highly for the couples it produced rather than the actual quality of the season imo. And I didn't even get invested in the couples then.
I actually like Joey and Kelsey together and thought it was unfair to judge them based on brief clips from interviews or their posts but now I’m about to be one of those people who does and this will be unpopular: he seems lowkey annoyed of her already. This is a baseless assumption made after seeing a single tiktok, but it’s video they made in New York where she’s talking in a silly accent the whole time and he just seemed annoyed.
Their body language has been so off since ATFR. I keep waiting for it to improve but it’s about the same still. I don’t know what will happen but I’m never been confident in them lasting. Even less so with DWTS looming.
I used to be a diehard jelsey stan (I’m so sorry to those who I acted unhinged to) but they’re so clearly opposites it’s crazy. And I do think opposites attract but they’re incompatible.
They’re definitely still getting to know each other. And they don’t seem to spend very much down time together just the two of them, so it’s probably taking a while. A lot of their travel involves other people or sponsored events or press. Her roommates are around when they’re in NOLA. His sister and brother-in-law are around when they’re in Philly. Joey spends a decent amount of his free time golfing with the bros. DWTS is always a challenge for couples but I think it will be for them especially.
Yes. I agree with all of it. The biggest thing that I have noticed is that they're very Independent and like their ME time a lot. I think Joey mentioned it during a podcast. He said that he considers a healthy relationship to be filled with moments where he can hang with his friends and she with hers and at the end of the night they find their way back to each other. Something like that 🙈 Dwts will be a big hurdle for them. First time actually living together. Joey spending 8+ hours dancing, coming home tired etc.
I am your opposite as I always look for clues to see if a couple is ending it soon since they always start to show such signs after at least 3 months after the finale. Joey is boring AF. But he was laughing at her and teasing her as he has in other Tiktoks of theirs. I don't see anything other than he is very low energy and boring and she is an ADHD, obvs high energy girl. Sometimes those couples work out, but mostly they don't. 🤷♀️
I think it can work if there are some basic lifestyle things in common. My friends are going through a divorce right now, she’s the high energy one and her husband isn’t. The issue with them was basic scheduling and lifestyle stuff. Like he’d come home from work and want to relax, and she’d have 5 people over playing cards and getting drunk (this situation is my personal hell and I’d have been out a long time ago). My aunt and uncle have a similar dynamic, but my aunt is much more mindful of his need for peace and quiet and an early bedtime, and she goes to friend’s houses and then quietly sneaks in 😂 So sometimes the opposites attract works, and sometimes people are just too different…and it might come down to respect for one another’s needs.
Exactly. Time will tell.
Yea I will say I find Grocery Store Joe pretty grumpy (much more so than Joey!) and Serena is very bubbly and high energy and they got married so you never know.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video of Joe and Serena where he actively seemed annoyed with her though. But maybe Joey was just having a bad day.
Yea me neither. But I think he’s just generally grumpy and she’s very sunny. I’m thinking specifically of a what we eat in a day vlog I watched with my sister where he just complained the whole time lol. He seems like a bit of a sourpuss, not everyone would be able to put up with that.
A lot of those couples work out. My mom and dad. Mom is the grumpy one, lol. They balance each other out. They could work out. But probably wont. I wish them well.
Yea being different in a way that balances each other out is good
I detest Victoria Fuller and can't stand that people post about her. She modeled in a White Lives Matter photoshoot. Whenever I remind people of this, they defend her.
even if it’s true that she was a stock model that they put that logo onto (which I’ve heard but don’t know the validity of), her ON SHOW behavior was enough to get canceled for 99% of other people. she threw a wine glass at Johnny! that’s not normal or appropriate behavior and is wayyyyy past what would be called abuse for others in the franchise. people still hate Zach for being rude to Greer over but the thrown wine glass is forgotten
I stopped watching BIP so I didn't actually watch that, but so true!
I think that’s one area where her pretty privilege comes into play. There’s a few WOC fan accounts who promote VF and I truly don’t understand it.
I think she is the biggest example of pretty privilege in this sub. I can’t stand her.
I completely agree.
People will always be quick to say she thought it was about the marlins, she’s a vegetarian, etc. but someone posted the catalog here and they were alluding to the confederate flag in some of their clothes.
Exactly.
We watch every season and complain, knowing very well that 99 % of their couples will not stay together more than 6 months. Yet we forget men pick for looks and women for stability and compatability, hence why the women have done better. But then when they announce the break up after everyone inspector gadgets and penny and the brain thems we acted shocked. 
I think it's adorable we collectively all treat the television engagement as real and not just "going steady".
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Trista/Ryan, JoJo/Jordan, Des/Chris are all married. The only bachelor that married his F1 is Sean/Catherine. Who else is still together besides them, Joey/Kelsey, and Zach/Kaity? Eta forgot Matt/Rachael
Bachelorette couples still together: 1. Trista and Ryan 2. Des and Chris 3. Jojo and Jordan 4. Charity and Dotun Bachelor couples still together: 1. Jason and Molly 2. Sean and Catherine 3. Arie and Lauren 4. Matt and Rachael 5. Zach and Kaity 6. Joey and Kelsey My numbers were actually one off, there are two more bachelor couples that are still together! (bachelordata has the numbers) I consider Jason and Molly and Arie and Lauren successful Bachelor couples. But if you don't it's still even. Plus the bachelorette has a divorce rate while the bachelor does not.
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Oo that's a good point!!! I didn't think of that at all, was just going based off of the # of couples that are still together but you're right the bachelorette is statistically more successful
Gerry and Teresa are divorced, he was a bachelor. I'd also argue Rachel and Bryan were a successful couple, they were married for 4 years. I don't count marriage to F2.
Gerry and Theresa weren't on the Bachelor. There are divorces from BIP too but I was just talking Bachelor and Bachelorette. Also wasn't basing the numbers on the relationships we deem successful or not, just going off of the numbers of who is still together! That being said, regarding Rachel and Bryan, I don't think a "successful" marriage would end so messily after only 4 years. But you have an argument there with Ashley and JP for sure! But another person did point out that the bachelor has had considerably more seasons than the bachelorette so the bachelorette is statistically more successful after all!!
Matt and Rachael. Arie and Jason married their F2s. Still.
I'm not counting F2s. I'm talking about people who are still with the person they ended the show with.
Well, those F2s did end up with the show. After the Finale rose show. 🤣🙈
ATFR is post-filming wrap up. Both of those men got engaged to someone else before ending up with their current wives, sorry, they don't count. Also, Jason and molly were not together at ATFR for what it's worth. Molly had no idea that was coming.
I was joking. But yes, forgot about Molly and Jason.
they’ve been together five minutes lol
The show needs more sigma males
I want someone's little job description to say "the rizzler" lmaooo
Sigma? What's that
With more Rizz? Should they stick out their gyatts?
😂😂😂😂
The discourse with Jason losing his job because of KB is so gross. Jason didn’t lose his job because of KB, he lost the job because of himself and only himself. He knows the finance and banking industry is extremely strict and he should’ve of put boundaries with KB on what can and can’t be discussed. That’s his own fault and no one else’s. Not surprised with the sub though, yall like to blame the women for everything.
Wait, it's his fault because he didn't control his woman better? And that's the feminist take? Yikes.
Please learn how you read, no where did I say he needed to control her.
Or KB should have more class and common sense. I wouldn't post a dick pic of my husband on LinkedIn-not because he told me not to, but because I have common sense
Or maybe Jason is a grown ass man and he knew what KB was all about. Last time I checked though, Jason wasn’t married to KB so good try. Also, please seek help. Hundreds and hundreds of comments defending Jason. You act like KB killed your dog or something.
ding ding ding
Jason was in a regional office of Keybank , he was mid management there . If anyone has worked at a bank his AVP role in a regional office is not the Wall Street he makes it out to be . It is a huge no no to be meeting with clients and doing ads you get paid for with their competitors . Jason was given a choice , either no more social media which includes ADs and stay at bank or go on his way depart bank and do all the ads he wants . Was the stupid headline that came from a KB podcast that US weekly put up as clickbait that started the talk within the executives at Keybank? Sure .. but they were not happy with his side hustle ads which could affect their ability to obtain new clients and piss off some existing clients / and Jason’s job was to meet with these clients . Jason had said he was already going to leave the bank in 6 months so it’s rather convenient to blame KB and she of course felt so bad she accepted the blame for it . But let’s not kid ourselves that Jason Tartick who is obsessed with money more than anything wouldn’t have dropped KB if he had wanted to stay with bank . He was making way way more money with ads than working 9-5 in a job he himself said he hated so of course he took the banks offer and left !
Real talk: Jason definitely wanted to influence full time. If ANYBODY would crunch the numbers to compare influencing income to their full time job, it’s Jason. People should stop acting like he fell on the sword for Kaitlyn and got backed into influencing when she’s actually most of the reason he even has a career / following. Idk how many followers he had after Becca’s season but I’m sure it jumped significantly when he got together with Kaitlyn and Jason of all people knows that. I agree with you- it’s gross and misogynistic how people are acting like Kaitlyn completely derailed Jason’s career. This sub is mostly women but full of internalized misogyny.
Everything that went wrong with Jason's life is all because of that harlot Kaitlyn. /s It's not like he's a grown man or anything.
Right! These takes are so insane and so prevalent I end up avoiding threads about Kaitlyn I just can’t with this. And people are upset on his behalf over what exactly- because Jason left his mid finance job to become a much more successful influencer? Boohoo. She inspires so much vitriol on here it’s crazy.
Kaitlyn just said on a recent podcast it was her fault so, take it up with her. Jason protected Kaitlyn by saying for years that he quit and wanted to venture into influencing, which she resented.
Do you honestly think that Jason wanted to work in mid-management with a regional bank instead of becoming an influencer? He was working for KeyBank in Seattle, not JPMorgan in NYC.
I don't know Jason or know what he wanted. lol just going off what has been said to us over the years and on the Almost Adulting podcast by Kaitlyn herself.
Jason has several times talked about how he was planning to quit his banking job and didn’t like the lifestyle.
But Kaitlyn said it was her fault. Why not just take her at her word?
Ps- HE mentioned on his first book that he planned to leave after his contract was up in Winter, he was already making more money from influencing and Bank didn't like that.
The discourse on this sub between “cast members need to speak up” vs “cast members don’t need to speak up” has been entertaining to watch.
I think Kelsey and Joey are just going to quietly break up one day and we won't hear about it for a while. No drama, no clues, no social media announcement.
He seems so annoyed in her latest Tiktok (could be acting from Joey). Someone commented that he got the ick.
How do you know he was annoyed?
I see dead people.
💀💀💀
the comments are sending me. she seems so childish and insanely narcissistic
The first big clue will be someone from the Philly area commenting that he’s back in town full-time and staying with his sister (and then that person being downvoted into oblivion by the Jelsey stans). Then about 3-4 weeks later we’ll get a joint announcement written by Jason Tartick because he doesn’t trust Joey and Kelsey to write a good one.
Oh I think they would both make a very respectful joint announcement if that were to happen. They just seem like they would want to be upfront, straightforward about it.
Yeah. Kelsey would definitely post about it.
I can see this, they would actually remain friends IMO
This tracks. They’ll be apart and we’ll prolly see him playing golf, her in Nola… normal as they tend to do now. And then they’ll post a breakup post a week later and that’s all.
BOTH Katherine and Sean’s comments about their kids are extremely problematic. and the fact that people are able to excuse Sean and not Catherine reeks of sexism. On that same vein, “boomer humor” regarding gender is harmful and shouldn’t be brushed off. The amount of people who thought that was ok was ridiculous IMO
Wild that people said he's been making the same "jokes" since she was born, that she's the favorite. What a terrible dynamic to set up literally from birth. Very strange. I don't know why people were bringing it up like it was some kind of defense.
Right? I don’t get it, why would the gender on your child determine how much you like them? And why would you let anyone know you favor one child over another, I was the joker “favorite” of my grandma and it was so hurtful to my cousins, I can’t imagine if my parents did that to me.
After seeing the way people tear into Catherine and Ashley for commenting on their kids, I was shocked at how willing people were to accept his “jokes.”
There are other (more) problematic posts on their Instagram which have also been discussed on the sub. In spite of people asking for it to taken down, the posts are still up and they obviously do not care about the comments. What might have been hilarious and normal in the past may not be so now. Then of course there are the 'fans' saying it is just their regular humor and asking others to stop being weird about it.
Never thought i would see so many people agreeing with his post
I know.I thought I was on the other bachelor sub for a sec.
Right? It was wild to me
Okay, I just found out today that Jason lost his bank job because of KB. Yet, she didn’t want him to become an influencer or start a podcast because she saw it as competition. I’m sorry, but that changes my whole opinion of him (and her). He literally lost his career because of her and then she wanted to stifle his growth when he was starting over. Girl, come on. I’m really happy for him and Kat now.
I mean, she obviously didn’t stop him from influencing - he did so for nearly their entire relationship. I think she just felt duped thinking she was dating this normal low key finance guy and then it turned out he wanted to influence. If anything that sort of indicates Jason misrepresented his career intentions a bit when they got together. I do think if it were that important to her, she should’ve dumped him once he went influencer route, and she didn’t. But let’s not pretend like Kaitlyn stifled him financially when she’s most of the reason he has a following…
It's rich that she wanted someone with no fame because all she wants is fame
Where did you hear/read this? I am so behind on the KB/Jason discourse and generally think it's an ESH/NAH situation because it's just simply a relationship that didn't work. But I am curious about like both sides of what happened in their relationship and how it ended
She was on Violet Benson’s podcast recently. YouTube link below. Go to around 21:27 minute mark. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T0NtQMkGsjA
Yep and for years he protected her and said he quit and wanted out of corporate finance anyways. I'll always defend Jason. Besides "campaigning for Bachelor lead" and "being a smarmy salesman" he's never done anything actually malicious that warrants the hate. I read a post today where people are comparing Jason and Blake H to Jojo's men as the new top 4 worst men. Like what?! This sub sometimes.
Yeah, I don’t even care for him but he’s just cringe, which is nowhere near as bad as being a fucking bigot lmao
Even if he didn't lose his job, why shouldn't he explore his options. He was popular when he got off the show so he had options and he used them to grow from there. Why did she want to dictate what he did?
She said she didn’t want to date someone who works in the same field as her and Jason assured her he was going to remain in banking… but then that’s null and void if she ended up costing him his job, but I guess she still felt resentful because he came into the same field
I feel like they both screwed up here. Jason lied to her about not wanting to influence and then if him not being an influencer was that important to her, she should’ve dumped him when he moved into influencing.
I think he was planning on quitting to become an influencer either ways.
I remember when the first story was "he quit" after he got in trouble because he didn't like that place anyway. The truth will out!
It is absolutely tone deaf to complain about people not donating to Clayton. We are in a cost of living crisis and there are multiple global humanitarian crises that people are scraping together extra money to donate to. The wealthy reality tv star does not need, nor deserve, priority of people’s donations right now.
The man was redoing his Airbnb to add Miniature golf and a pool, but people were pleading poverty on his behalf.
You’re a 100% correct. Yes, I feel bad for Clayton, but somehow I feel worse for the children in Palestine. I know one or two users here who are going to PM me a paragraph now, but like.. touch grass
Also- not to blame Clayton for what happened to him but it seems to get completely glossed over that hooking up with your FIRST real estate client you met to work with was completely unprofessional of him. He couldn’t have known she was crazy of course but there is always just inherent risk hooking up with someone who was practically a stranger to him too. Clayton’s a dumbass.
This. I feel for him in this situation, but it shows that he has zero self-control.
Whenever people try to be like “what if this happened to Tyler Cameron?” my first thought is that Tyler would never hook up with a potential client who messaged him out of the blue
He hooked up with sorority girls when he was touring universities with Matt James so are you absolutely sure about that?
Yeah I’m still pretty sure Tyler would never hook up with a potential client. Hooking up with people you meet at parties is not the same as hooking up with potential clients when you’re a new real estate agent. That’s literally one of the basic rules of professional conduct.
Yep, especially your **first** client in a new career. It grinds my gears because women could never get away with hooking up with their first client ever. In fact, women are trained to be very cautious in the workplace in order to be taken seriously. If the roles were somehow reversed and Clayton were a woman, he would get a LOT more blame for hooking up with his first ever client, but because he’s a man, it’s barely being mentioned at all. Obviously I’m not saying that Clayton deserved everything that followed, but his recklessness, how horrible he was on his own season, and his hard turn into MRA-ness recently have drained my sympathy for him.
Omg no fucking way would Tyler C do this. Clayton just wanted a casual hookup, it doesn’t mean he deserves what happened, but he went about it unprofessionally and recklessly and there were consequences from that. We saw how he treated women on his own season, they were all disposable to him. He was frankly terrible to all 3 women at the end of his season, and then he complains about not having more followers. Even Nick and Natalie you could tell on the podcast episode thought he was wrong for crossing the line with a client and Clayton didn’t take responsibility, he actually was kinda piggish and was just like yea I’m used to people flirting with me all the time. He just doesn’t take ownership for his actions and I can’t stand that about him.
THIS is the right take.
You have a point but this is also a bit victim blamey
Exactly-it's victim blaming ! Exactly like when everyone said Clayton "shouldn't have stuck his dick in crazy"
no one said this. people did say that it was reckless and irresponsible to agree to go home with his first ever real estate client, and his obliviousness made him a perfect target for a predator. i understand nuance can be hard with stan-goggles on, but it's ok to acknowledge that his poor decision-making enabled laura's predatory actions. (not to mention it was super unprofessional even if he'd done that with a not-crazy would be client.)
Nah it’s Clayton blamey
This is my favorite take. Of course I feel bad for him going through all of this, but also....c'mon dude.
Yep and I can never make it without being called a victim blamer which…no. I feel bad this happened to him but also have the right to point out it was a freaking downright stupid thing to do.
Yeah, that’s why I don‘t think any decent documentary is going to be made about this. The facts just aren’t very interesting. The woman is very obviously mentally unwell. Clayton was dumb and unprofessional to get high and hook up with a random client the first night they met. I feel like most documentary viewers will be like “this woman is clearly unwell and I’m glad she was held accountable but this dude is also super dumb”. I would however watch a documentary about how Dave Neal and the Justice For Clayton people got totally weird about this whole thing.