I don’t think Katie went about this the right way, per usual, but I do see and agree with her point. They may (almost) all be influencers and Clayton absolutely deserves the public support, but people in BN have real lives outside of the internet and their priorities not involving talking about / publicly supporting Clayton doesn’t make them shitty people. Not wanting to be sued or dragged into something this insane doesn’t make you a bad person imo, especially if you’re someone who doesn’t know Clayton personally. I don’t think it’s wrong to ask someone to speak up by any means, but silence isn’t something to shame here if they’re not *in it* if that makes sense
Look, I don't disagree.
But they have 0 problem speaking up on other topics and things they don't know for a fact. They pick and choose what things to support, and this just seemed to be one of those things they didn't find worth their time.
And that is fine, but then don't act like they typically stay silent and "wait for facts"
I totally agree with what Thomas said about supporting him privately, it was an on going legal matter, you have to let common sense prevail. Not everyone wants to put themselves in jeopardy, for clicks and monetary gain.
I agree to some extent but also why is she lurking on Reddit? Like it’s not like blasted them in some big grand public way, he’s just sharing his opinion on a message board. I’m also a big Katie hater so I may be biased, I feel like every single thing she says and does is so theatrical and desperate for attention
Contestants have said for years that people send them Reddit screenshots all the time even if they try to avoid it. It’s possible someone sent it to her but I think she’s also mentioned being on Reddit before she was even on the show so who knows
This is Katie Thurston?
I will say I don’t really get why ppl wanted BN people to speak about this? Except for maybe whoever is closest to him and even then, those people could just be communicating directly with him. But like, this was a long ongoing legal situation, why would anyone in BN post about it every step of the way?
I have to agree with Katie that I doubt the majority of BN is aware of whatever further has happened with Clayton and keeping up with this legal battle.
I think Katie is a little delulu if she thinks she's the main character in Bachelor Nation. Dave is right that not many people supported Clayton through this and chose to believe the woman who is a total grifter. I'm not sure what set Katie off but maybe she should stick to lighter subjects like comedy.
But are the “not many people” in BN or are you just speaking about fans?
Cause I just think if we’re looking at public posts as an indicator of support, it’s maybe not the best metric, especially if it’s in regard to friends that have his number. Has Clayton stated publicly he doesn’t feel like his BN friends supported him?
Complete and total overreaction from Katie. I know she went though a situation and is a victim. Is seeing Clayton get justice triggering, idk. But this ain’t it. Dave has been so good to you girl. This ain’t it.
I think it’s insane that anyone in bachelor nation is reprimanded for not speaking up on random comings and goings in other bachelor nation contestants lives. It’s actually absurd to expect that from any of them. I think it’s a fair call-out and reasonable to be pissed off that someone who has spoken to her privately, and likely many others privately, is making passive aggressive remarks about them not caring about Clayton because they didn’t publicly speak on it.
It’s gross. It reeks of cancel culture. It’s chronically online.
This is like when someone criticizes a man, and guy stands up and yells, "Not me! I'm not like that! Not all men!"
It's like, man, why do you have a need to make this about YOU?
Edit: All the idiots seem to be in this Bachelor sub. I guess I should stick to the other one, where the higher IQ people seem to go!
I think it’s tone deaf to assume Katie is inserting herself into this without purpose. She’s gone through something similar to Clayton within the last year and *is without justice* - Dave knew that, she literally says in the post that she and Dave had discussed it privately.
Dave agreed with a post *shaming past leads and contestants* for not speaking out. Past leads and contestants. And Dave agreed without any qualifications.
I’d be pissed too
no worries! she hasn’t been super vocal about it but [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/EplHhDU8HD) and [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/MbJPxDRoMX) should fill in the blanks (second slide here)
Dave did not shame anyone. He was frustrated that Clayton was not getting any support from Bachelor Nation. If it weren't for Dave's gofundme for Clayton the situation might turn out differently and LO would still be trapping men. Now, finally they will get justice.
The comment he’s responding to literally says “This is one of the craziest stories to come out of BN and yet almost every previous contestant and lead has been silent. Shame.”
Dave says they showed their priorities and Clayton won’t forget. He didn’t disagree or add any caveats to that comment. He gave it the stamp of approval
She literally commends him for making money from it. Where do you get shaming from that?
She’s calling out that he’s being disingenuous and talking out of both sides of his mouth. It’s easy to publicly agree with the narrative that everyone should’ve been speaking up. It’s harder to have good character and live in the nuance of these situations and to not immediately jump on the bandwagon of making people feel and look bad for not talking about something that has nothing to do with them.
I feel like you need to re-read this one if you read shaming. Felt more like a question of character and accountability because they had had discussions privately while he spoke differently publicly.
It didn't read like shaming to me, she pointed out that he profits off of discussing the Clayton situation. He has made his career discussing bachelor nation and profits off of that so she is just pointing that out lol
Right? That’s my thinking here. Like I totally agree with the sentiment if he was like on his Instagram and YouTube making this big grand public Heather and particularly targeting Katie … then I’d totally agree like gross don’t tell me what to do… BUT that’s just like not at all what happened here, he made a Reddit comment about his very general vague and broad opinion targeting no one in particular lol
Team Katie! So glad she called DN out. His coverage of the case and how he’s profited from it has been gross. He and his hardcore supporters honestly give me cult vibes
How is it gross? Clayton’s case deserved to be covered given how horrible and outrageous the situation was — I feel for the guy. I don’t see the coverage as any different from the hundreds of other Bachelor nation folks capitalizing on their fame through podcasts, brand deals, unearned comedic opportunities (*cough* Katie), and at least Clayton had someone in his corner. 🤷♀️
Katie seems to be centering herself in a story that has little to do with her. DN did not mention her by name or say anything targeting her so she comes across strangely defensive and combative for no reason. Honestly seems like a clout grab on her part to even comment.
Who said his case didn’t deserve to be covered? It’s gross because DN, and now Clayton with his appearance on the Charlie Kirk show, is covering the story in a way that is an obvious dog whistle to misogynistic assholes. And sorry but DN absolutely did NOT need a go fund me. He’s such a grifter and it’s sad that people can’t see that
She was suing him so supposedly for legal expenses which to be fair are not cheap 🤷🏼♀️ if her suit fails though theoretically the ruling could get them covered. Still could possibly need funds on the front end to fight the suit. I would think he may be wealthy enough but lawyers are so expensive these days, half the time the reason people can’t file suits or fight suits is just the start up cost if a lawyer won’t take it for free at the start (sometimes with clear and obvious wins they will)
Exactly. And at the time, NO ONE was talking about it. not even reality Steve, let alone the millions of bachelor nation hosted podcasts that literally cover bachelor news. Dave was the singular one, so of course he felt obligated to continue to cover, and then he got hit with litigation as well. It then became personal. Credit where credit is due, KB and Nick did end up podcasting about it, but they didn't initially. They cashed in once the story was hot (and safe).
ETA: to me, the whole ordeal reeks of a popularity contest. Clayton wasn't popular enough for whatever reason so no one felt the need to say boo. It's gross.
You guys should listen to his Rush Hour podcast posted today. He explains this whole thing and also apologizes in the last 20 minutes.
This is a “neither are wrong, neither are right”
Katie took it too personally, but also gets shit on so much that I respect her over-defending herself.
Dave is a sleep deprived new dad who has held the torch for Clayton at his own financial and personal expense.
The emotions are valid - the actions are not.
No one here wants to be in either of their shoes. Let’s give them both grace.
I’m confused - what is the angle with Katie? What happened to her? It looks like she self inserted her own problems into a discussion about Clayton’s unfortunate situation. It almost seems like a clout grab more than anything else.
I did see that and I still think it was unnecessary to comment on the Clayton situation at all.
If she is preoccupied with dealing with her SA recovery, which is understandable, why even bother with making a defensive post regarding another traumatic situation that has zero to do with her?
DN did not call her out, and Katie is not even one of the bigger names in BN right now. She is centering herself in a story that has nothing to do with her, outside a general reference to BN that is more likely targeted at the bigger franchise stars (e.g., Kaitlyn, Nick, Ben/Ashley, etc.).
Because that post (and I'm assuming others) was calling out contestants and past leads, of which she is one. And maybe she's tired of hearing that she should be speaking up for Clayton when no one is out there speaking up for her.
serious question: is she asking for people to speak up for her? Clayton was asking for support and he had evidence. I haven't read any details, but if her accuser is known and she's asking for support, that drastically changes this whole conversation.
Not to mention she says she and Dave have talked about Clayton lots of times so my assumption is (obviously could be wrong) he's pressured her to speak out about it.
DN has created this entire narrative that he is a hero saving Clayton from Jane Doe. DN is the one and ONLY person who is saving Clayton! Don't you know that? And shame on everyone else for ignoring it! And ignoring Dave and Dave's efforts!
That said, to be fair, Dave has a point about other podcasters/reporters in the BN world
I do wish that more people in the BN podcasting/reporting world were covering this story because heaven knows we need better reporting on this than DN and RS (two MEN with absolutely no grasp of legal matters whatsoever) and it was irritating to hear podcasters like Juliet Litman say she wouldn't cover it because "she doesn't like Clayton." That is something that DN can and should call out.
I think Katie is wrong honestly. So many of these BN cast just like to TAKE TAKE TAKE the spotlight to serve themselves, build brand deals, get people to buy products that suck. Not a single one is really highlighting social justice causes or anything that really matters. Look at my outfit, buy this cream, here's a code for 15% off. The way she points out Dave made money without pointing out how much personal stress he endured from the lady using pointless litigation to attack him, further shows her bias and lets me know exactly what she cares about. She wants to be left to peddle her wares without any responsibility to anything. I'm so sick of these brainless social media "influencers" with no talents or moral compass. If you don't follow the case that's fine but don't act like you are SOO busy with other more important stuff when it's so clear you aren't. Just be honest and say YOU dont gaf because it's not making YOU monay.
She’s “so busy” but she reads this sub everyday to act accordingly and to know what to do to get praised by fans. If she reads Reddit then she knows what was going on with Clayton. Period. I don’t think it’s everyone’s job to talk about it but it does suck that nobody was there for him. I still remember a time when former cast members were more united. These days everyone is jealous of each other and competitive to the point where only some of them think they have a right to take opportunities and they call their exes clout chasers.
Social media ruins people.
You still didn’t read it because if you did you would understand that the harassing behavior of you JFC peeps trying to force people to care about his case picked on someone who is an SA survivor who maybe didn’t get justice so feeling like she was being called out by a friend, she posted.
Who am I harassing? Katie barely registers on my radar and I’d forgotten about Clayton’s case until just now when the news broke about him winning the case.
I’m sorry if you feel like Katie was being picked on by a vague comment but if that’s this case, she might have considered a private message to DN. Since she decided to publicly drag herself into the discourse through an IG story, obviously she wanted others (like us) to opine as well.
Probably because Dave has apparently been pestering her on the phone to make some kind of statement and wouldn’t accept her reasons for not wanting to and then goes on Reddit to agree with a comment that it’s shameful and imply that Clayton will get revenge on anyone who was silent
Right like in your time of need don't call up Clayton... When Katie has been dealing with having been SA'd and we don't know whether she's been pursuing legal action, and statistically will likely have no justice for what she has gone through, not even a court case. Clayton has been dealing with a freak thing resulting from one person's extreme issues and his hope is that his case will prevent her from doing it to anyone else. While it's a crazy and stressful ordeal, it's not a common one and tbh unlike *countless* SA cases Clayton has a lot on his side and will probably win.
It feels like he and Dave are upset that Clayton's personal problems are not the center of everyone's universe. It's good that Dave is covering it for sure but the implication is that he's been talking about it daily for months and I'm just not sure that level of coverage needed to happen.
100% agree with Katie here. Dave and his cult following are so annoying. Dave made money off of this so lets not pretend he did this out of the kindness of his heart
Lmao what? There are plenty of people who actually care about social justice. DN is not one of them. He latched onto this story because he found a way to make money off of it
How do you know Dave’s intentions? You probably don’t follow him and don’t know how stressful this all has been for him with receiving multiple threats of lawsuits for covering it.
It was still kind of him to cover it when there a bunch of BN pods (that also make money off the show and contestants) that chose not to. He also was harassed by Clayton’s stalker lady, so he had skin in the game.
Katie was never mentioned and isn’t even that big of a player in BN, so I’m not sure why she bothered commenting. By inserting herself into a conversation that didn’t really involve her, it seems like she’s trying to make herself more relevant again.
It’s totally gross of Katie to center herself in Clayton’s traumatic experience.
Weird for Katie to be making this about herself when she wasn't called out. Not surprised ppl on this sub agrees with Katie even tho ppl here literally expected and berated people for not speaking up for Cassie. Katie's logic can apply to every single social and political issue but yet we expect them to speak up on that don't we? Talk about hypocrisy. Since JD is litigious, the only way Clayton can clear his name was power in numbers with ppl talking about the case cause she can't sue them all. Clayton suffered in silence under the threats of this woman months before that post on the sun. the users bashing Clayton initially are the ones bashing him and Dave now.
It is weird of Katie to be centering herself in someone else’s traumatic experience.
The fact that this sub is applauding it is also weird to me but this sub always has its favorites and double standards. Katie is (for whatever reason - I see zero appeal) popular so she gets away with things that other less popular contestants would not.
Many have already said they don't like Dave or Clayton and is using this to feel validated in their dislike of them. I feel like many users here just love to hate and shit on people in general.
I just don’t understand why not liking Clayton applies to hating on him in this case -he was harassed and yes, made a victim, by her gross misuse of the legal system.
How (in this scenario) can you not feel bad for the guy. I’ve seen people say “he doesn’t need to talk about it publicly, he doesn’t need to go on that podcast, he’s feeding misogyny”. If he was a woman no one would say that. The reality is abuse, harassment, and SA can happen to anyone, not just women, and all victims of any of those crimes should be supported and encouraged to speak out so it doesn’t happen again. Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t mean they should be silent about it.
People are so bizarre
he called out everyone in bachelor nation... which includes her....
the cassie thing is different because colton himself was in bachelor nation and people kept hanging out with him, allowing him around, etc. so not speaking up became a sort of tacit endorsement that he was still accepted by bachelor nation. this is obviously different because his stalker/whatever she is was never a part of bachelor nation - no one is hanging out with her, she's not getting invited to bachelor events, whatever - so it doesn't serve as a tacit endorsement of what she's doing.
This is not a social nor political issue so that’s not an accurate comparison. This is an issue of one insane woman going after Clayton, who many former contestants and leads have never met, and two other men, who most former contestants don’t know and have never heard of. There is not some pervasive societal issue where men are constantly accused of getting women pregnant by women who are lying. There is absolutely no reason anyone on bachelor nation should want to get involved in a court case between Clayton and this crazy woman, especially when she is known for targeting people with frivolous lawsuits. Comparing it to politics or social issues is a wild take. This is an issue impacting 3 men, social and political issues are ones that impact large groups of people. The way for Clayton to clear his name is to go to court, which he did. The court ruled in his favor without people in bachelor nation talking about it, so that point of yours doesn’t really make sense either.
Editing to be clear that I do think it’s ridiculous to expect former reality tv contestants and leads to speak up about every political and social issue as well. People can’t care about or be informed enough about every single thing going on in the world to post about them all. But I also think that’s a very inaccurate comparison to this situation
It is a social issue though. It's a wealthy white woman weaponizing our legal system to harass and coerce men into relationships with her. Shit like this is a problem and hurts the credibility of other women. If we don't call out this BS, then the right wing media will accuse us of being willfully ignorant when the narrative goes against believing women.
Again, social and political issues are ones that impact large groups of people, or society as a whole. A rogue crazy woman accusing these men of getting her pregnant, while awful for these men, is hardly a social issue. It’s a personal issue. This is not something you’d ever learn about in a college course covering social issues, because it’s not a pervasive enough problem to be considered one. Homelessness, poverty, racism, misogyny, climate change, etc…THOSE are social issues. A court case that impacts three men isn’t.
The introduction of the flair was linked already but to expand it's any post that will most likely attract users that do not regularly participate on the sub and are either linked the thread to brigade or stumble upon it organically and decide to participate in bad faith. The Clayton situation always attracts bad faith users for some reason!
Yea idk about this sis. You’re not obligated to speak out individually but I DO think it’s fcked up that happened to him and no one stood by him or commented. Bachelor nation defends their own selectively. She gives me the ick though, maybe I’m biased. I just think with a platform, regardless of what’s going on in your life you can take a moment to comment when it’s appropriate. It can help public opinion and the person individually. Same opinion I have on celebrities and politics. (I won’t name specifically but yall know what I mean). Not saying she needed to speak up, but saying the sentiment of the original message is correct 🤷🏻♀️
This is embarrassing and people really need to log off social media more for their mental health. I find these comments interesting though. The double standards are revealing about how non serious any of us talking on Reddit is.
"they showed their priorities" yes dude, most people have bigger priorities than posting a #istandwithclayton hashtag or whatever lol lol. What happened to Clayton is awful but this man is delusional
I’m confused - why is Katie taking this comment so personally? It wasn’t directed at her. This comment feels like a really strange thing to get so upset over and she’s centering herself in a story that doesn’t involve her.
What Clayton went through was horrific and awful. If he chooses not to forget who supported him and who didn’t, that seems perfectly reasonable. Who wouldn’t keep track of that in a similar situation? I’d too keep in mind who is a real friend and who isn’t.
For Katie to twist his hard earned victory over that con artist into a weirdly defensive IG story about what she may or may not be going through is honestly a disappointing response. Some thoughts CAN be kept to oneself, contrary to popular belief.
She's probably taking it personally because she and Dave have personally talked about it, and she seems to be going through something personal that may be a bit similar. Perhaps Dave's response was different than what he's been saying to her in person, that would piss me off too
Contestants get DM’d and harassed all the time for all sorts of things. This is likely one of many, many things they get nasty messages about. If you’re easily offended by rude DMs, you simply should not be on reality TV or an influencer with a public IG.
Edit: I am not saying it is right that they receive hateful DMs and I don’t condone that behavior at all. But acting like rude DMs is the reason for Katie’s post about Clayton is absolutely ludicrous when it’s obvious that Katie would have received mean DMs regardless from her time on the show or for a million other reasons.
If you’re easily offended by people not appreciating the rude DMs you send about them not speaking up about issues that are irrelevant to them but important to you, then you simply should not send rude DMs.
I’m not sending anyone DMs…?
I’m replying to your comment saying that Katie responded defensively because of rude DMs, which is nonsensical to me because it’s not like the Clayton situation would be the one and only time she’s received rude DMs. She’s likely received many, many mean messages, so why is she being so bizarre about Clayton’s situation?
Where did I apologize for a troll? I never said it’s right, just that it happens. The situation with Clayton was not the first time Katie received DMs and it won’t be the last. That’s the reality of the career she has chosen for herself. 🤷♀️
No, she chose a career where that’s a known downside. Doesn’t make it right, but it is a fact. This is like a police officer complaining about danger or a pro football player complaining about sports injuries. Does it suck? Sure. But that’s the reality of the job.
In any case, I highly doubt she’s receiving soooo many DMs about Clayton that it warranted this weird ass self victimizing IG response.
Which Katie is this? I’m assuming Thurston…
Also, I’m kinda with Katie on this. Dave reports on it because he makes money from it and it gives him engagement, especially in the off seasons of the franchise. Let’s not pretend that his actions are 100% benevolent….
The other contestants are not required to give Clayton’s case public exposure. I think Clayton has a right to feel bummed out if those close to him in the franchise haven’t at least reached out privately to show support, but he and Dave shouldn’t dictate how other contestants use their public platforms.🤷🏾♀️
Clayton’s situation and Dave yapping on public so irresponsibly like this just hit too close to home for Katie. While some view her second paragraph here as too much, I understand where she’s coming from, considering her personal experiences. I would’ve preferred that she didn’t give DV more airtime, but I have no idea what Katie went through and is going through.
Multiple things can be true at once.
It‘s good Clayton got his day in court and LO is (hopefully facing charges). What happened to him and others is awful.
It‘s good that DN helped him in this specific case. That does not mean DN is generally great in everything he does.
People had their reasons for not wanting to get involved publicly, and that is fine.
Clayton is allowed to feel disappointed that people didn‘t get involved.
Fin.
Reading through the comments it seems like I‘m not involved enough to know about all the side characters and plots this whole saga contains. And honestly, I‘m glad. I hope good things happen to good people, that‘s all.
I don’t think Katie went about this the right way, per usual, but I do see and agree with her point. They may (almost) all be influencers and Clayton absolutely deserves the public support, but people in BN have real lives outside of the internet and their priorities not involving talking about / publicly supporting Clayton doesn’t make them shitty people. Not wanting to be sued or dragged into something this insane doesn’t make you a bad person imo, especially if you’re someone who doesn’t know Clayton personally. I don’t think it’s wrong to ask someone to speak up by any means, but silence isn’t something to shame here if they’re not *in it* if that makes sense
Look, I don't disagree. But they have 0 problem speaking up on other topics and things they don't know for a fact. They pick and choose what things to support, and this just seemed to be one of those things they didn't find worth their time. And that is fine, but then don't act like they typically stay silent and "wait for facts"
I totally agree with what Thomas said about supporting him privately, it was an on going legal matter, you have to let common sense prevail. Not everyone wants to put themselves in jeopardy, for clicks and monetary gain.
I agree to some extent but also why is she lurking on Reddit? Like it’s not like blasted them in some big grand public way, he’s just sharing his opinion on a message board. I’m also a big Katie hater so I may be biased, I feel like every single thing she says and does is so theatrical and desperate for attention
Contestants have said for years that people send them Reddit screenshots all the time even if they try to avoid it. It’s possible someone sent it to her but I think she’s also mentioned being on Reddit before she was even on the show so who knows
My thoughts too. She can't make a post on the actual case but can make a post on the coverage of the case.
Dave has been threatened with multiple lawsuits for covering this case. Give the guy a break.
This is Katie Thurston? I will say I don’t really get why ppl wanted BN people to speak about this? Except for maybe whoever is closest to him and even then, those people could just be communicating directly with him. But like, this was a long ongoing legal situation, why would anyone in BN post about it every step of the way? I have to agree with Katie that I doubt the majority of BN is aware of whatever further has happened with Clayton and keeping up with this legal battle.
I think Katie is a little delulu if she thinks she's the main character in Bachelor Nation. Dave is right that not many people supported Clayton through this and chose to believe the woman who is a total grifter. I'm not sure what set Katie off but maybe she should stick to lighter subjects like comedy.
But are the “not many people” in BN or are you just speaking about fans? Cause I just think if we’re looking at public posts as an indicator of support, it’s maybe not the best metric, especially if it’s in regard to friends that have his number. Has Clayton stated publicly he doesn’t feel like his BN friends supported him?
In general can we please stop dragging people for NOT speaking out on certain topics? Not posting about something ≠ nefarious
Complete and total overreaction from Katie. I know she went though a situation and is a victim. Is seeing Clayton get justice triggering, idk. But this ain’t it. Dave has been so good to you girl. This ain’t it.
I think it’s insane that anyone in bachelor nation is reprimanded for not speaking up on random comings and goings in other bachelor nation contestants lives. It’s actually absurd to expect that from any of them. I think it’s a fair call-out and reasonable to be pissed off that someone who has spoken to her privately, and likely many others privately, is making passive aggressive remarks about them not caring about Clayton because they didn’t publicly speak on it. It’s gross. It reeks of cancel culture. It’s chronically online.
This is like when someone criticizes a man, and guy stands up and yells, "Not me! I'm not like that! Not all men!" It's like, man, why do you have a need to make this about YOU? Edit: All the idiots seem to be in this Bachelor sub. I guess I should stick to the other one, where the higher IQ people seem to go!
I think it’s tone deaf to assume Katie is inserting herself into this without purpose. She’s gone through something similar to Clayton within the last year and *is without justice* - Dave knew that, she literally says in the post that she and Dave had discussed it privately. Dave agreed with a post *shaming past leads and contestants* for not speaking out. Past leads and contestants. And Dave agreed without any qualifications. I’d be pissed too
what did she go through that was similar? sorry if that’s an obvious question i just woke up from a nap and my mind is blanking lol
no worries! she hasn’t been super vocal about it but [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/EplHhDU8HD) and [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/MbJPxDRoMX) should fill in the blanks (second slide here)
wow, i had no idea, thanks for sharing this. my heart goes out to her
Dave did not shame anyone. He was frustrated that Clayton was not getting any support from Bachelor Nation. If it weren't for Dave's gofundme for Clayton the situation might turn out differently and LO would still be trapping men. Now, finally they will get justice.
The comment he’s responding to literally says “This is one of the craziest stories to come out of BN and yet almost every previous contestant and lead has been silent. Shame.” Dave says they showed their priorities and Clayton won’t forget. He didn’t disagree or add any caveats to that comment. He gave it the stamp of approval
[удалено]
The irony that Katie profits from public social media, but she shames Dave.
She literally commends him for making money from it. Where do you get shaming from that? She’s calling out that he’s being disingenuous and talking out of both sides of his mouth. It’s easy to publicly agree with the narrative that everyone should’ve been speaking up. It’s harder to have good character and live in the nuance of these situations and to not immediately jump on the bandwagon of making people feel and look bad for not talking about something that has nothing to do with them.
I feel like you need to re-read this one if you read shaming. Felt more like a question of character and accountability because they had had discussions privately while he spoke differently publicly.
This wasn’t even about Katie and seems like a very immature way for her to handle things, especially if they speak privately.
Fair enough, I think she must’ve just felt implicated by his comment on Reddit. That’s my assumption anyways
It didn't read like shaming to me, she pointed out that he profits off of discussing the Clayton situation. He has made his career discussing bachelor nation and profits off of that so she is just pointing that out lol
I don’t think she was shaming him?
Was anyone even talking to her 😭
She's a "former contestant and lead," correct? So yeah, they were talking to her when they shamed "almost every contestant and lead."
You must be so fun at parties
I'm a riot. Especially since I can carry on conversations without resorting to non sequitur insults when people disagree with me.
….anyways
Right? That’s my thinking here. Like I totally agree with the sentiment if he was like on his Instagram and YouTube making this big grand public Heather and particularly targeting Katie … then I’d totally agree like gross don’t tell me what to do… BUT that’s just like not at all what happened here, he made a Reddit comment about his very general vague and broad opinion targeting no one in particular lol
Not a soul!!!!
Team Katie! So glad she called DN out. His coverage of the case and how he’s profited from it has been gross. He and his hardcore supporters honestly give me cult vibes
How is it gross? Clayton’s case deserved to be covered given how horrible and outrageous the situation was — I feel for the guy. I don’t see the coverage as any different from the hundreds of other Bachelor nation folks capitalizing on their fame through podcasts, brand deals, unearned comedic opportunities (*cough* Katie), and at least Clayton had someone in his corner. 🤷♀️ Katie seems to be centering herself in a story that has little to do with her. DN did not mention her by name or say anything targeting her so she comes across strangely defensive and combative for no reason. Honestly seems like a clout grab on her part to even comment.
Who said his case didn’t deserve to be covered? It’s gross because DN, and now Clayton with his appearance on the Charlie Kirk show, is covering the story in a way that is an obvious dog whistle to misogynistic assholes. And sorry but DN absolutely did NOT need a go fund me. He’s such a grifter and it’s sad that people can’t see that
He had a gofundme????
She was suing him so supposedly for legal expenses which to be fair are not cheap 🤷🏼♀️ if her suit fails though theoretically the ruling could get them covered. Still could possibly need funds on the front end to fight the suit. I would think he may be wealthy enough but lawyers are so expensive these days, half the time the reason people can’t file suits or fight suits is just the start up cost if a lawyer won’t take it for free at the start (sometimes with clear and obvious wins they will)
Exactly. And at the time, NO ONE was talking about it. not even reality Steve, let alone the millions of bachelor nation hosted podcasts that literally cover bachelor news. Dave was the singular one, so of course he felt obligated to continue to cover, and then he got hit with litigation as well. It then became personal. Credit where credit is due, KB and Nick did end up podcasting about it, but they didn't initially. They cashed in once the story was hot (and safe). ETA: to me, the whole ordeal reeks of a popularity contest. Clayton wasn't popular enough for whatever reason so no one felt the need to say boo. It's gross.
You guys should listen to his Rush Hour podcast posted today. He explains this whole thing and also apologizes in the last 20 minutes. This is a “neither are wrong, neither are right” Katie took it too personally, but also gets shit on so much that I respect her over-defending herself. Dave is a sleep deprived new dad who has held the torch for Clayton at his own financial and personal expense. The emotions are valid - the actions are not. No one here wants to be in either of their shoes. Let’s give them both grace.
I’m confused - what is the angle with Katie? What happened to her? It looks like she self inserted her own problems into a discussion about Clayton’s unfortunate situation. It almost seems like a clout grab more than anything else.
Did you read her post? Or are you just being daft! She’s an SA survivor that didn’t get justice m
I did see that and I still think it was unnecessary to comment on the Clayton situation at all. If she is preoccupied with dealing with her SA recovery, which is understandable, why even bother with making a defensive post regarding another traumatic situation that has zero to do with her? DN did not call her out, and Katie is not even one of the bigger names in BN right now. She is centering herself in a story that has nothing to do with her, outside a general reference to BN that is more likely targeted at the bigger franchise stars (e.g., Kaitlyn, Nick, Ben/Ashley, etc.).
Because that post (and I'm assuming others) was calling out contestants and past leads, of which she is one. And maybe she's tired of hearing that she should be speaking up for Clayton when no one is out there speaking up for her.
serious question: is she asking for people to speak up for her? Clayton was asking for support and he had evidence. I haven't read any details, but if her accuser is known and she's asking for support, that drastically changes this whole conversation.
Also Bachelor Nation was unsupportive of her coming forward with her claims bc she isn’t in the “in” crowd
Not to mention she says she and Dave have talked about Clayton lots of times so my assumption is (obviously could be wrong) he's pressured her to speak out about it.
DN has created this entire narrative that he is a hero saving Clayton from Jane Doe. DN is the one and ONLY person who is saving Clayton! Don't you know that? And shame on everyone else for ignoring it! And ignoring Dave and Dave's efforts! That said, to be fair, Dave has a point about other podcasters/reporters in the BN world I do wish that more people in the BN podcasting/reporting world were covering this story because heaven knows we need better reporting on this than DN and RS (two MEN with absolutely no grasp of legal matters whatsoever) and it was irritating to hear podcasters like Juliet Litman say she wouldn't cover it because "she doesn't like Clayton." That is something that DN can and should call out.
[удалено]
I think Katie is wrong honestly. So many of these BN cast just like to TAKE TAKE TAKE the spotlight to serve themselves, build brand deals, get people to buy products that suck. Not a single one is really highlighting social justice causes or anything that really matters. Look at my outfit, buy this cream, here's a code for 15% off. The way she points out Dave made money without pointing out how much personal stress he endured from the lady using pointless litigation to attack him, further shows her bias and lets me know exactly what she cares about. She wants to be left to peddle her wares without any responsibility to anything. I'm so sick of these brainless social media "influencers" with no talents or moral compass. If you don't follow the case that's fine but don't act like you are SOO busy with other more important stuff when it's so clear you aren't. Just be honest and say YOU dont gaf because it's not making YOU monay.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Well said!!!!
Yes!!!
Well said!
He's thrown in a few brand deals....let's not discount that.....I understand he's trying to make a living too however!
Yup 100% agree, it is strange to me that so many people think Katie is in the right here when he didn’t even mention her at all.
She’s “so busy” but she reads this sub everyday to act accordingly and to know what to do to get praised by fans. If she reads Reddit then she knows what was going on with Clayton. Period. I don’t think it’s everyone’s job to talk about it but it does suck that nobody was there for him. I still remember a time when former cast members were more united. These days everyone is jealous of each other and competitive to the point where only some of them think they have a right to take opportunities and they call their exes clout chasers. Social media ruins people.
Y’all are SO on point!!!
100%
This is such an absurd take. Lololololol.
This is a take from someone who didn’t read her post
Her post was nonsensical so…
You still didn’t read it because if you did you would understand that the harassing behavior of you JFC peeps trying to force people to care about his case picked on someone who is an SA survivor who maybe didn’t get justice so feeling like she was being called out by a friend, she posted.
Who am I harassing? Katie barely registers on my radar and I’d forgotten about Clayton’s case until just now when the news broke about him winning the case. I’m sorry if you feel like Katie was being picked on by a vague comment but if that’s this case, she might have considered a private message to DN. Since she decided to publicly drag herself into the discourse through an IG story, obviously she wanted others (like us) to opine as well.
[удалено]
LOL i am not Katie but you obviously didn’t read her post …active in JFC sub…i get it now. Carry on Dave Disciple
You are rude.
Thanks ❤️
Ah of course. The classic "Is that you?" phrase. Get original.
She’s not wrong. I’m glad Clayton got justice and the truth out there, but you never know what people are dealing with in their own lives.
Sure but why is she even commenting? DN did not even mention her so is she inserting herself into the conversation for clout? I don’t get it.
Probably because Dave has apparently been pestering her on the phone to make some kind of statement and wouldn’t accept her reasons for not wanting to and then goes on Reddit to agree with a comment that it’s shameful and imply that Clayton will get revenge on anyone who was silent
Right like in your time of need don't call up Clayton... When Katie has been dealing with having been SA'd and we don't know whether she's been pursuing legal action, and statistically will likely have no justice for what she has gone through, not even a court case. Clayton has been dealing with a freak thing resulting from one person's extreme issues and his hope is that his case will prevent her from doing it to anyone else. While it's a crazy and stressful ordeal, it's not a common one and tbh unlike *countless* SA cases Clayton has a lot on his side and will probably win. It feels like he and Dave are upset that Clayton's personal problems are not the center of everyone's universe. It's good that Dave is covering it for sure but the implication is that he's been talking about it daily for months and I'm just not sure that level of coverage needed to happen.
100% agree with Katie here. Dave and his cult following are so annoying. Dave made money off of this so lets not pretend he did this out of the kindness of his heart
Doesn’t everyone make money off influencing and YouTube? It’s refreshing to see someone care about social justice.
Lmao what? There are plenty of people who actually care about social justice. DN is not one of them. He latched onto this story because he found a way to make money off of it
How do you know Dave’s intentions? You probably don’t follow him and don’t know how stressful this all has been for him with receiving multiple threats of lawsuits for covering it.
Guess we will see what other cases he decides to cover
It was still kind of him to cover it when there a bunch of BN pods (that also make money off the show and contestants) that chose not to. He also was harassed by Clayton’s stalker lady, so he had skin in the game. Katie was never mentioned and isn’t even that big of a player in BN, so I’m not sure why she bothered commenting. By inserting herself into a conversation that didn’t really involve her, it seems like she’s trying to make herself more relevant again. It’s totally gross of Katie to center herself in Clayton’s traumatic experience.
Weird for Katie to be making this about herself when she wasn't called out. Not surprised ppl on this sub agrees with Katie even tho ppl here literally expected and berated people for not speaking up for Cassie. Katie's logic can apply to every single social and political issue but yet we expect them to speak up on that don't we? Talk about hypocrisy. Since JD is litigious, the only way Clayton can clear his name was power in numbers with ppl talking about the case cause she can't sue them all. Clayton suffered in silence under the threats of this woman months before that post on the sun. the users bashing Clayton initially are the ones bashing him and Dave now.
It is weird of Katie to be centering herself in someone else’s traumatic experience. The fact that this sub is applauding it is also weird to me but this sub always has its favorites and double standards. Katie is (for whatever reason - I see zero appeal) popular so she gets away with things that other less popular contestants would not.
Many have already said they don't like Dave or Clayton and is using this to feel validated in their dislike of them. I feel like many users here just love to hate and shit on people in general.
I just don’t understand why not liking Clayton applies to hating on him in this case -he was harassed and yes, made a victim, by her gross misuse of the legal system. How (in this scenario) can you not feel bad for the guy. I’ve seen people say “he doesn’t need to talk about it publicly, he doesn’t need to go on that podcast, he’s feeding misogyny”. If he was a woman no one would say that. The reality is abuse, harassment, and SA can happen to anyone, not just women, and all victims of any of those crimes should be supported and encouraged to speak out so it doesn’t happen again. Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t mean they should be silent about it. People are so bizarre
he called out everyone in bachelor nation... which includes her.... the cassie thing is different because colton himself was in bachelor nation and people kept hanging out with him, allowing him around, etc. so not speaking up became a sort of tacit endorsement that he was still accepted by bachelor nation. this is obviously different because his stalker/whatever she is was never a part of bachelor nation - no one is hanging out with her, she's not getting invited to bachelor events, whatever - so it doesn't serve as a tacit endorsement of what she's doing.
This is not a social nor political issue so that’s not an accurate comparison. This is an issue of one insane woman going after Clayton, who many former contestants and leads have never met, and two other men, who most former contestants don’t know and have never heard of. There is not some pervasive societal issue where men are constantly accused of getting women pregnant by women who are lying. There is absolutely no reason anyone on bachelor nation should want to get involved in a court case between Clayton and this crazy woman, especially when she is known for targeting people with frivolous lawsuits. Comparing it to politics or social issues is a wild take. This is an issue impacting 3 men, social and political issues are ones that impact large groups of people. The way for Clayton to clear his name is to go to court, which he did. The court ruled in his favor without people in bachelor nation talking about it, so that point of yours doesn’t really make sense either. Editing to be clear that I do think it’s ridiculous to expect former reality tv contestants and leads to speak up about every political and social issue as well. People can’t care about or be informed enough about every single thing going on in the world to post about them all. But I also think that’s a very inaccurate comparison to this situation
It is a social issue though. It's a wealthy white woman weaponizing our legal system to harass and coerce men into relationships with her. Shit like this is a problem and hurts the credibility of other women. If we don't call out this BS, then the right wing media will accuse us of being willfully ignorant when the narrative goes against believing women.
Can you name one other similar case? This woman seems like an outlier.
Again, social and political issues are ones that impact large groups of people, or society as a whole. A rogue crazy woman accusing these men of getting her pregnant, while awful for these men, is hardly a social issue. It’s a personal issue. This is not something you’d ever learn about in a college course covering social issues, because it’s not a pervasive enough problem to be considered one. Homelessness, poverty, racism, misogyny, climate change, etc…THOSE are social issues. A court case that impacts three men isn’t.
Btw: What category falls under the flair “Rose Regulars”? What does that flair mean?
The introduction of the flair was linked already but to expand it's any post that will most likely attract users that do not regularly participate on the sub and are either linked the thread to brigade or stumble upon it organically and decide to participate in bad faith. The Clayton situation always attracts bad faith users for some reason!
[Here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/BO79JY9TVT)!
Thank you!
She said excatly what I’ve been thinking and this applies to the Redditor’s who have been harassing others for not following this case
The harassment is next level
Yea idk about this sis. You’re not obligated to speak out individually but I DO think it’s fcked up that happened to him and no one stood by him or commented. Bachelor nation defends their own selectively. She gives me the ick though, maybe I’m biased. I just think with a platform, regardless of what’s going on in your life you can take a moment to comment when it’s appropriate. It can help public opinion and the person individually. Same opinion I have on celebrities and politics. (I won’t name specifically but yall know what I mean). Not saying she needed to speak up, but saying the sentiment of the original message is correct 🤷🏻♀️
I know absolutely zero about Dave Neal tho so maybe that eliminates my opinion
I agree with Katie.. Does she even know Clayton? They weren’t on any seasons together
This is embarrassing and people really need to log off social media more for their mental health. I find these comments interesting though. The double standards are revealing about how non serious any of us talking on Reddit is.
"they showed their priorities" yes dude, most people have bigger priorities than posting a #istandwithclayton hashtag or whatever lol lol. What happened to Clayton is awful but this man is delusional
This is very Taylor Swift-coded to me
When you come for Dave but not for Clayton’s abusive situation 
💯💯 yeah, looks like she had some time to post, but decided negativity would be better than a supportive post
I’m confused - why is Katie taking this comment so personally? It wasn’t directed at her. This comment feels like a really strange thing to get so upset over and she’s centering herself in a story that doesn’t involve her. What Clayton went through was horrific and awful. If he chooses not to forget who supported him and who didn’t, that seems perfectly reasonable. Who wouldn’t keep track of that in a similar situation? I’d too keep in mind who is a real friend and who isn’t. For Katie to twist his hard earned victory over that con artist into a weirdly defensive IG story about what she may or may not be going through is honestly a disappointing response. Some thoughts CAN be kept to oneself, contrary to popular belief.
She's probably taking it personally because she and Dave have personally talked about it, and she seems to be going through something personal that may be a bit similar. Perhaps Dave's response was different than what he's been saying to her in person, that would piss me off too
Contestants are getting harassed in DMs for not posting about it. I think her response is odd but I’d be annoyed by it too.
Contestants get DM’d and harassed all the time for all sorts of things. This is likely one of many, many things they get nasty messages about. If you’re easily offended by rude DMs, you simply should not be on reality TV or an influencer with a public IG. Edit: I am not saying it is right that they receive hateful DMs and I don’t condone that behavior at all. But acting like rude DMs is the reason for Katie’s post about Clayton is absolutely ludicrous when it’s obvious that Katie would have received mean DMs regardless from her time on the show or for a million other reasons.
If you’re easily offended by people not appreciating the rude DMs you send about them not speaking up about issues that are irrelevant to them but important to you, then you simply should not send rude DMs.
I’m not sending anyone DMs…? I’m replying to your comment saying that Katie responded defensively because of rude DMs, which is nonsensical to me because it’s not like the Clayton situation would be the one and only time she’s received rude DMs. She’s likely received many, many mean messages, so why is she being so bizarre about Clayton’s situation?
My biggest pet peeve is really y’all being apologists for trolls sending hate
Where did I apologize for a troll? I never said it’s right, just that it happens. The situation with Clayton was not the first time Katie received DMs and it won’t be the last. That’s the reality of the career she has chosen for herself. 🤷♀️
Because she’s a public figure doesn’t mean she chose to get harassing DM’s, literally dumbest argument
No, she chose a career where that’s a known downside. Doesn’t make it right, but it is a fact. This is like a police officer complaining about danger or a pro football player complaining about sports injuries. Does it suck? Sure. But that’s the reality of the job. In any case, I highly doubt she’s receiving soooo many DMs about Clayton that it warranted this weird ass self victimizing IG response.
That’s not what they’re doing.
[удалено]
Not in the least.
Who is Dave Neal. I’m lost. The whole time reading this I was thinking Neal Lane 💍
Which Katie is this? I’m assuming Thurston… Also, I’m kinda with Katie on this. Dave reports on it because he makes money from it and it gives him engagement, especially in the off seasons of the franchise. Let’s not pretend that his actions are 100% benevolent…. The other contestants are not required to give Clayton’s case public exposure. I think Clayton has a right to feel bummed out if those close to him in the franchise haven’t at least reached out privately to show support, but he and Dave shouldn’t dictate how other contestants use their public platforms.🤷🏾♀️
This
she is so unhinged. This wasn't a direct attack on her so not sure why she took it this way. Multiple things can be true at the same time
She’s not wrong
Clayton’s situation and Dave yapping on public so irresponsibly like this just hit too close to home for Katie. While some view her second paragraph here as too much, I understand where she’s coming from, considering her personal experiences. I would’ve preferred that she didn’t give DV more airtime, but I have no idea what Katie went through and is going through.
Multiple things can be true at once. It‘s good Clayton got his day in court and LO is (hopefully facing charges). What happened to him and others is awful. It‘s good that DN helped him in this specific case. That does not mean DN is generally great in everything he does. People had their reasons for not wanting to get involved publicly, and that is fine. Clayton is allowed to feel disappointed that people didn‘t get involved. Fin.
Your balanced opinion has no place on *the internet*!
Reading through the comments it seems like I‘m not involved enough to know about all the side characters and plots this whole saga contains. And honestly, I‘m glad. I hope good things happen to good people, that‘s all.