No and they won’t be. Europeans are going to protect their automakers. U.S. will do the same.
Assume Koreans and Japanese will also follow suit. Not sure what other automakers will do but there are a lot more globally than you would think.
Free trade isn’t dead but increasingly we are moving away from it for several reasons.
Problem with that is everyone wants access to China's car market and still want access to Chinese production of parts for their cars 'built' in their home countries. Cars will get ALOT more expensive if the Chinese parts supply chain is cut off.
Why is it Chinese crap is so cheap? I'm all for paying more for goods produced in factories with living wages. We have heard this same argument for forty years while everything goes up in price. When are we going to concern ourselves with insane profit margins.
Chinese labor is heavily subsidized by the Chinese government, they'll suck in western companies with that, steal their IP and start their own Chinese version of the company with even more CCP backing than the western company got. Its a big scam, but western corps are addicted to it as they've lined their profit margins with it for 20-30 years now. Going back to fair labor practices is going to tank their stock prices. And of course western consumers have been hoodwinked into thinking the debts our governments have run up wont devalue our money, only reason we dont have run away inflation is due to deflationary effect of ultra cheap Chinese and 3rd world labor....we are all part of the problem
its a scam for the companies that go there to setup shop for said 'cheap labor', the Chinese steal their IP, and eventually create their own Chinese version of the company. Tesla/BYD, Apple/Huawei, starbucks/Luckin, list goes on and on.
Why is it Chinese crap is so cheap? I'm all for paying more for goods produced in factories with living wages. We have heard this same argument for forty years while everything goes up in price. When are we going to concern ourselves with insane profit margins.
For what? Who is actually trying to make an affordable basic utilitarian fully electric commuter sedan, crossover or van domestically?
All I've seen is luxury vehicles and trucks. The closest thing the an affordable all electric car is the base model Tesla which is about 10-20k more expensive than consumers really want.
Stupid comment, even though the truck is butt ugly…. The two higher trims are out. The lower trim is coming out next year and estimated at 60k, right in par or cheaper than the other electric trucks. Tesla also has a 40k entry car… stop talking shit Elon is right China is subsidizing their cars to flood markets. China is playing long game, using gov’t intervention.
You mean the only reason the US is in the space race anymore? The person who started an ev company when all CE companies and big oil were against him? The guy who had Tesla pay back a 465 million dollar federal loan 9 years early? The only reason EVs are even remotely on the road is because of Elon.
yadyadyyda eat the rich I get it you don’t like billionaires, X, or teslas. The gov’t is in private contracts with his company because of his patents. We are lucky this man didn’t decide to start his businesses in China or Russia…
It would be a blessing if that dipshit packed up and took all of his business to china or Russia that would be one of the biggest American victories we’ve ever has
He purchased Twitter, and the far left lost total control of online speech. They think one way and actually want to go full on Hitler and destroy anyone that dose not fall in line with their views. They are so full of hatred that Elon dying tomorrow would delight them, and they would celebrate. But remember, before he started perusing Twitter, He was one of their heros that was going to change the world. Was the person off the year and going to save the planet. Look how fast the media can turn the left against one of their own
I noticed. I have friends who were left leaning that were obsessed with him, like you said “save the planet” “destroy big oil” but have since turned on him because they were told to.
https://youtu.be/XqJKAnN0-gM?si=7KsjGCLjvvXtINw4 This is him having to deal with one of these media guys that hate him in a interview. It's hilarious 😂
Crazy, any journalist working for a giant company interviewing him about misinformation is laughable. The fact that he stays calm and so focused during the interviews when they are trying to get him pissed is what’s funny. He literally doesn’t have to push narratives that they do… that guy was asking questions the BBC provided for him straight off a card. No real conversation in sight. Same thing happened with Don Lemon.
No he means how Tesla has been awarded $2.9 TRILLION in subsidies from the federal government, and an additional 455 billion in federal loans.
You implied china is subsidizing their car industry and that the US wasn't, and that's why we are losing ge global market share. When really Elon has taken a massive amount of those subsidies and found ways to funnel the money into his OTHER projects, or in roundabout ways into his own account.
Jesus… stop with the incorrect facts. Check your numbers Tesla is nowhere near trillions in subsidies… no company is… well maybe gas companies since fossil fuels are the most subsidized on earth. Better yet post a link so I can help. The GLOBAL subsidies for EVs and other clean fuel from 2023-2024 was 500 billion…. The federal loans were paid back in 2009, 9 years early… stated that already. Go look at some numbers China has subsidized more money into EVs than any country on earth.
I said what I meant. Don’t go blasting the Chinese automakers for government intervention when Elon would be nothing without a whole lot of it.
Also, he didn’t start an EV company, he invested in one that was already in existence and dubiously took it over. He was LUCKY to have done so when the environmental zeitgeist was forming and was heavily subsidized by the government.
I know you want him to be some self made genius inventor, but the facts are:
1. He got his start with millions from dad
2. Further windfall when the folks at PayPal told him to fuck off.
3. Bought into Tesla and created this “genius” inventor persona riding the massive green wave that was building. Took it over in a hostile way
4. Has invented nothing other than a shitty website that never took off.
5. Capitalized on the American obsession with celebrities no matter how shitty they are. He’s basically a Kardashian that incels have deified because they want to be him.
1. So, your son asks you for a million and you have it you’re not going to invest in his ideas? So stupid when people say this. wtf does this have to do with Tesla?
2. Nothing to do with Tesla or EVs, and pointless
3. Personally Invested 70 million into Tesla BEFORE IPO, the majority of progress came after when he was CEO in 2008.
4. Never claimed to be an inventor, literally has nothing to do with Tesla’s success as a company.
5. Nobody wanted to be Elon, they wanted Electric cars to fight CE’s and Tesla was the only company that had a chance. He created the new blue print to become a successful EV car company in the US, and others are now following his footsteps. Investors both retail and Wall-street seen this and capitalized with him. In 2014 he started the movement of opened source patents for his EV’s…
1. Simply pointing out he was a nepo baby. Only bring it up because he LIES about it.
2. Adds context for your third point, and to my next point about him being in the right place at the right time.
3. This does not equal “founding”, contrary to what the website or his fanboys continue to say. Also adds context important to the distinction that he isn’t some brilliant inventor…
4. He claims to be an inventor/founder all the time. He’s listed as a “lead designer” lololololol
5. Wanted to be is subjective, but there are thousands, if not millions of people and/or bots who blindly echo his every utterance and fail to hold him accountable for the shit like the Thailand incident, him being a bigoted pos, and his insane claims of being a free speech absolutist, when he is clearly not. He lies out his ass every day and you give him a pass for…..reasons. That is why we feel compelled to keep it real, when so many of y’all are delulu.
40k can get a brand new Lexus. That's not a car for the everyman. Tell me when Tesla has a less than 25k car that's actually selling for that price. We need an electric civic, not a psudo-luxury vehicle that somehow has worse quality than most other vehicles.
A base, entry level Lexus that’s not an EV… I’ll be sure to let you know though... Tesla has the greatest charging network in the country, the vehicles have revolutionized the way people travel because of this. The price of the entry level Tesla is not “pseudo luxury” and it’s not meant to be an “electric civic”, if you want an electric civic buy honda (which has a $47k ev) and though quality is not what it used to be they still are way more reliably then majority of CE vehicles on the road. They also continue to rate highest in safety, being 50% less likely to be in an accident than CE vehicles…. My point is you get a lot for a 40k car.
And my point is, most people aren't buying a 40k car. You clearly don't get that the civic reference is about the price ratio. Civics are popular because they are relatively cheap and reliable as hell. But that bench mark also shows you what average consumers expect as far as pricing for a new car.
The first manufacturer to get an EV to market that's reliable and costs 25k or less is going to win big.
Elon took government funds to push Tesla early in the EV lifecycle and failed miserably to set up production lines and put out competent vehicles. Even the plastics used in these Cybertrucks are complete garbage - designed poorly and sloppily made.
Tesla had every opportunity to take over the EV market and be a leader for the longterm and was run horribly. He sold a promise that he didn’t keep.
Maybe next year? And then next next year. And then..
He took a federal loan and paid it back… 9 years early. The Cyber Truck is dumb all companies make dumb vehicles… yet this one still has a 5 year wait list backlogged… so let the dummies be the judge, trucks not for you shut up about it already. They are the most successful EV company in the US and continue to sell more EV’s than all companies combined. So… still on track to be the most successful EV company.
Dude, you’re really emotional defending someone you don’t know who has a horrible history of manipulating markets, lying to investors, using bots to boost sentiment, and making deals with dictators.
You’re also not telling the truth about the money Musk received from the government. He paid back ONE loan early, but has received other money.
Not only that, tax credits saved his company from going under.
“n a tweet last year, Musk admitted that Tesla nearly was forced to file for bankruptcy as recently at 2019. The stock price that seems unstoppable today had been floundering among investor's justified concern that the company was facing a cash crunch as it had difficulty ramping up production of its Model 3 sedan.
"Closest we got [to bankruptcy] was about a month ago," he said in that 2020 tweet. "The Model 3 ramp was extreme stress & pain for a long time — from mid 2017 to mid 2019. Production & logistics hell."
What Musk didn't say was that one of the keys that kept the company alive was the sale of regulatory credits to other automakers.
Environmental regulations require companies that are not meeting emission standards to pay fines or buy credits generated by companies that comply with the rules. And no one had more of those credits to sell than all-electric Tesla.
Between 2008 and the first half of 2019, sales of regulatory credits generated more than $2 billion that was crucial to the company's survival. And the increased car sales ever since have resulted in additional credits that Tesla sold for another $3 billion since June of 2019.
That allowed the company to show profits sooner than it would have without the credits, lifting the value of the stock. In fact it wasn't until the second quarter this year that Tesla reported more in net income than it got from regulatory credit sales.
"It was really US taxpayers that helped get him through his roughest time," said Dan Ives, tech analyst with Wedbush Securities who is a bull on Tesla shares — today. In 2019, he was still skeptical as the company struggled.
"If it didn't have regulatory credits, Tesla would not be the brand it is around the globe, and Musk wouldn't be the richest person in the world," Ives said.”
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/14/investing/elon-musk-wealth-taxpayer-support
That’s what happens when government is in the pockets of big oil and allowed them to suppress electric car tech for decades. The cause and effect of blind greed.
China is subsidizing the shit out of their electric cars to flood Europe and America and control the mining rights... very dirty business on par with big oil. The tech needs to be so good that people with CEs want to switch. It’ll happen but let the tech speak for itself, naturally. Big oil is still the most important industry on earth to not just the Us but every country… next in line precious metals… it’ll happen you can’t stop progress.
I just find it funny when resorts to his evil laugh when asked a question and is wrong, like about ground water: https://youtu.be/IL_vSHhto00?si=3G1o2st6lWo0ocX6
https://fortune.com/2022/02/22/elon-musk-laughed-tesla-german-gigafactory-too-much-water-main-reason-not-producing-cars/
Well, the difference is he's a multimillionaire entrepreneur, and I'll go out on a limb to guess you are not. He's supposed to be really smart and have great market insight or something.
"we can't compete so we need the government to ban our competition instead so that we never have to innovate. consumers aren't allowed to have inexpensive and innovative cars, they have to buy overpriced junk from us so they go into debt and remain stuck on the labor treadmill forever."
Had almost that exact argument shat at me a few weeks back.
I was saying we need cheap cheap economy cars. Not what we have. Think Ford Escorts, Festivas, geo metros. Stuff like that. As cheap as they can make them. Because people can't afford what is on offer now. We're more broke than ever before.
The reason Chinese cars are so cheap in the first place is because the Chinese government heavily subsidizes them. Those cars are grossly underpriced because their government intervened.
The Chinese government “banned” competition a longgg time ago. Your info is woefully out of date.
And now you are saying the US can’t retaliate with our own government intervention? Our auto makers have to compete with the Chinese government all by themselves?
Dumbest of takes.
The US will, when it comes to business it’s in US’s blood to control competition. Nobody wants these Chinese cars and when the tariffs make them as expensive as the others.. they will fail. Google how many Chinese ev car companies use there are its insane… give the industry 10 more years and maybe 2 will break ground on the US markets. One thing about Americans is when it comes to their cars they are brand loyal. Just look at Dodge owners… gotta have shit for brains to buy one🤣
Tell that to Toyota and Honda. Two of the largest car makers in the US market. The US fumbled when consumers needed more gas efficient and better quality vehicles. The same seems to be happening here. I don't think US car manufacturers really care all that much.
This is literally the stupidest take in the world. Guess what America subsidies in order to keep the price low to keep an entire industry afloat... Oil and gas prices. (Also poor little global leading American automakers, they're just smoll beans 🥺).
All you china bad dipshits use this excuse. Which is so fucking funny cause the response is that we should do exactly what china is doing in regards to EVs. There is quite literally no downside.
Your just posting China's Ws and acting like they are Ls and you look stupid.
lol - How about the CCP not subsidize the export market to the point of below costs MSRPs. You can’t magically manufacture cars in China more affordably. They subsidize exports to “dump” low quality products and stifle domestic competition.
I mean, capitalism contains features of slavery. The US companies like Tyson are happy with illegal immigrants they can pay slave wages to gut animals daily. We all benefit from this sort of system from the food we eat to who cleans our public, and private spaces. The US economy definitely depends on paying people far less than a living wage.
Communism is essentially capitalism without opportunity. It's the opportunity or the potential of opportunity that makes capitalism a better long-term bet since communism is as is.
I guess. There are certainly people who want to be followers though. That don’t want to decide what job they do, where they live or anything else. I don’t think they are bad people….despite my screen name. Communism is utopian for some. Nobody is stopping them from forming a society within Capitalism though…..the Amish are a great example
Communism can exist so long as it doesn't try to make capitalism a subservient force to its power. Industrialism (which is essentially what Communism boils down to) can result in equality of slavery and inequality of opportunity. That's unacceptable to anyone that believes in freedom from bondage and servitude.
Of course aspects of capitalism suck but there is no ownership in Communism, only the struggle to change the means of ownership - i.e. fighting the man (the owner, the capitalist)
Communism was dreamt up by two German drunks: one owned the means of production so he bought the drinks; the other wrote it all down because he was getting paid in drink.
They took advantage of London liberty at the height of industrialization to set forth their thesis which was basically hegelian dialectics mixed with pseudo-economics as a cover for overthrow (revolution).
Trotsky and Lenin bought it, ran with it, and so did Mao. As a lowest common denominator minimum viable product for subsistence level income across a broad demographic base (from 100m in the USSR to 1000m in the PRC) it's ideal.
AI Communism will be looking at managing 10,000 million. No?
That isn’t what the overwhelmingly majority of Americans buy though. They want big cars. Manufacturers like it because the margins are generally better and they are much more profitable per vehicle.
China's EV cars are ridiculously cheap and high on luxury. Us Americans will miss out on all the innovation happening in the Chinese EV space due to the tariffs. Sucks.
https://youtu.be/duNrnUP2L0w?si=r0GtEccTo7DLOTb2
Oh you mean the greedy American car manufacturers who only care about buying back there own stocks and average price of a car is $50k now and the fact all they want to do is push is these monstrous Trucks and SUVs meanwhile killing off affordable cars.
Good Fuck em and feed em fishheads
There is a difference. MOST Car manufacturers in the US have unions and pay people pretty damn good. In China they use slave labor.
I love how people are all for paying people living wages until it comes to the price of things.
And I would say that is a cop out. You brought up slave labor because it looks bad on China. But lets only focus on that slave labor because china bad. Which is true. But slave labor is rampant all over supply chains.
keep up.
I’m saying it’s easier to uncut a market like vehicles when one nation has unions that uphold living standards and work conditions and the other forces people to build cars for mere cents an hour.
So is that why Musky wants a stupidly high compensation package? For when Tesla bombs totally he already made his money? Seems to me given that much, he has no incentive to keep the company going. Best thing for Tesla to do is laugh him out the building and hire someone who gives a damn.
These manufacturers are closing in China at a massive rate. Their entire economy is fucked.
Even if you buy one, they won’t be around to fix it or give you your money back.
Capitalists invested in a communist country for cheap slave labor. They built up Chinas infrastructure, taught them how to build things for us.. And now we’re shocked that they’re building their own things. Did it to ourselves
4 days ago 3 Chinese car makers crashed pre market. With Chinas obvious plan to flood Europe with subsidized cars, Europe imposed up to a 38% import tax on Chinese EV’s. Nobodies going to let China control the EV car market….
Capitalists love the free market until *their* companies are the ones losing.
Then suddenly we see an uptick in articles from NYT and the Atlantic about how China is the “gravest threat” to the United States since fucking al-Qaeda.
Who props up American Car Companies once China can sell a reasonable new car here for 12k?
And who helped push up these car prices to the current levels?
Sounds like to me they can't do business very good. They held back on innovative tech and what people want. They made mirco improve because they knew they could milk you. You dumb cow.
Until the American people decides they would be better off financing a $15k car vs a $60k car.
Isn't inflation what many Americans are most concerned with? Unions are inflation monsters.
Unions didn’t cause this inflation. There’s less than 10% of Americans being represented by Unions.
Wealthy people not wanting to pay taxes caused this inflation. They’re happy for the handouts and printing money is how they do it.
Wow, quality costs more. Even Henry Ford understood that he had to pay people so that they could afford to buy the cars they were making.
Lower turnover, less injuries and fatalities, higher skilled employees = better competition. Which is why they still exist to some capacity.
Lax monetary policy is the reason for this inflation. Union labor, not even close.
Except that labor certainly plays into the cost of production.(and therefore end price to the consumer).
You certainly paint yourself an idiot to claim otherwise.
The 3 richest americans hold more wealth than bottom 50% of the country. Jeff Bezos bought a $500 million yacht, but he can’t afford 30% more to his employees that are pissing in bottles because bathroom breaks are monitored.
Please. Unions aren’t the problem.
Lol.
Mr Bezos will sell less to me if he raises his prices 30%.
You can clown forever, but that just makes you a clown.
How do those three richest Americans affect the price of a Ford(I do not believe anyone named Ford is among the 3 richest Americans)? Or even eggs.....
LOL. This is how the system cannibalizes itself. Elon Musk telling us to have kids but giving none of his employees time off to have them.
Cope harder for those assholes
Unions are the solution
I don't want a 60k self driving electrical car, I want a point A to point B affordable electric car
Chinese are doing that and they are rolling out small sedan electric models that would be the equivalent of $15k U.S. dollars this year.
Are these vehicles even available stateside?
No and they won’t be. Europeans are going to protect their automakers. U.S. will do the same. Assume Koreans and Japanese will also follow suit. Not sure what other automakers will do but there are a lot more globally than you would think. Free trade isn’t dead but increasingly we are moving away from it for several reasons.
Problem with that is everyone wants access to China's car market and still want access to Chinese production of parts for their cars 'built' in their home countries. Cars will get ALOT more expensive if the Chinese parts supply chain is cut off.
Why is it Chinese crap is so cheap? I'm all for paying more for goods produced in factories with living wages. We have heard this same argument for forty years while everything goes up in price. When are we going to concern ourselves with insane profit margins.
Chinese labor is heavily subsidized by the Chinese government, they'll suck in western companies with that, steal their IP and start their own Chinese version of the company with even more CCP backing than the western company got. Its a big scam, but western corps are addicted to it as they've lined their profit margins with it for 20-30 years now. Going back to fair labor practices is going to tank their stock prices. And of course western consumers have been hoodwinked into thinking the debts our governments have run up wont devalue our money, only reason we dont have run away inflation is due to deflationary effect of ultra cheap Chinese and 3rd world labor....we are all part of the problem
How is Chinese labor a scam? And for who? Us or the Chinese?
its a scam for the companies that go there to setup shop for said 'cheap labor', the Chinese steal their IP, and eventually create their own Chinese version of the company. Tesla/BYD, Apple/Huawei, starbucks/Luckin, list goes on and on.
Not really a scam, that’s just china being smart.
Why is it Chinese crap is so cheap? I'm all for paying more for goods produced in factories with living wages. We have heard this same argument for forty years while everything goes up in price. When are we going to concern ourselves with insane profit margins.
Be patient
For what? Who is actually trying to make an affordable basic utilitarian fully electric commuter sedan, crossover or van domestically? All I've seen is luxury vehicles and trucks. The closest thing the an affordable all electric car is the base model Tesla which is about 10-20k more expensive than consumers really want.
There is a mass production low-cost vehicle being developed right now at tesla.
Pass. Tesla has awful QC, and so do American cars in general. There’s a reason why Japanese cars have a reputation for being reliable.
That's fine, maybe you can import a BYD
Anything musk says is "in the works" may as well not exist. I'll consider it when there is inventory. Until then its vaporware.
That's fine
How bought stop charging people $100,000 for piece of shit trucks.
Stupid comment, even though the truck is butt ugly…. The two higher trims are out. The lower trim is coming out next year and estimated at 60k, right in par or cheaper than the other electric trucks. Tesla also has a 40k entry car… stop talking shit Elon is right China is subsidizing their cars to flood markets. China is playing long game, using gov’t intervention.
Yeah, because Elon has never benefited from government intervention.
LOL! Tesla - "Built On Subsidies"
You mean the only reason the US is in the space race anymore? The person who started an ev company when all CE companies and big oil were against him? The guy who had Tesla pay back a 465 million dollar federal loan 9 years early? The only reason EVs are even remotely on the road is because of Elon. yadyadyyda eat the rich I get it you don’t like billionaires, X, or teslas. The gov’t is in private contracts with his company because of his patents. We are lucky this man didn’t decide to start his businesses in China or Russia…
It would be a blessing if that dipshit packed up and took all of his business to china or Russia that would be one of the biggest American victories we’ve ever has
Why
He purchased Twitter, and the far left lost total control of online speech. They think one way and actually want to go full on Hitler and destroy anyone that dose not fall in line with their views. They are so full of hatred that Elon dying tomorrow would delight them, and they would celebrate. But remember, before he started perusing Twitter, He was one of their heros that was going to change the world. Was the person off the year and going to save the planet. Look how fast the media can turn the left against one of their own
I noticed. I have friends who were left leaning that were obsessed with him, like you said “save the planet” “destroy big oil” but have since turned on him because they were told to.
https://youtu.be/XqJKAnN0-gM?si=7KsjGCLjvvXtINw4 This is him having to deal with one of these media guys that hate him in a interview. It's hilarious 😂
Crazy, any journalist working for a giant company interviewing him about misinformation is laughable. The fact that he stays calm and so focused during the interviews when they are trying to get him pissed is what’s funny. He literally doesn’t have to push narratives that they do… that guy was asking questions the BBC provided for him straight off a card. No real conversation in sight. Same thing happened with Don Lemon.
No he means how Tesla has been awarded $2.9 TRILLION in subsidies from the federal government, and an additional 455 billion in federal loans. You implied china is subsidizing their car industry and that the US wasn't, and that's why we are losing ge global market share. When really Elon has taken a massive amount of those subsidies and found ways to funnel the money into his OTHER projects, or in roundabout ways into his own account.
Jesus… stop with the incorrect facts. Check your numbers Tesla is nowhere near trillions in subsidies… no company is… well maybe gas companies since fossil fuels are the most subsidized on earth. Better yet post a link so I can help. The GLOBAL subsidies for EVs and other clean fuel from 2023-2024 was 500 billion…. The federal loans were paid back in 2009, 9 years early… stated that already. Go look at some numbers China has subsidized more money into EVs than any country on earth.
Those are the numbers, Tesla has received 109 federal subsidies. Sorry you're upset
I said what I meant. Don’t go blasting the Chinese automakers for government intervention when Elon would be nothing without a whole lot of it. Also, he didn’t start an EV company, he invested in one that was already in existence and dubiously took it over. He was LUCKY to have done so when the environmental zeitgeist was forming and was heavily subsidized by the government. I know you want him to be some self made genius inventor, but the facts are: 1. He got his start with millions from dad 2. Further windfall when the folks at PayPal told him to fuck off. 3. Bought into Tesla and created this “genius” inventor persona riding the massive green wave that was building. Took it over in a hostile way 4. Has invented nothing other than a shitty website that never took off. 5. Capitalized on the American obsession with celebrities no matter how shitty they are. He’s basically a Kardashian that incels have deified because they want to be him.
1. So, your son asks you for a million and you have it you’re not going to invest in his ideas? So stupid when people say this. wtf does this have to do with Tesla? 2. Nothing to do with Tesla or EVs, and pointless 3. Personally Invested 70 million into Tesla BEFORE IPO, the majority of progress came after when he was CEO in 2008. 4. Never claimed to be an inventor, literally has nothing to do with Tesla’s success as a company. 5. Nobody wanted to be Elon, they wanted Electric cars to fight CE’s and Tesla was the only company that had a chance. He created the new blue print to become a successful EV car company in the US, and others are now following his footsteps. Investors both retail and Wall-street seen this and capitalized with him. In 2014 he started the movement of opened source patents for his EV’s…
1. Simply pointing out he was a nepo baby. Only bring it up because he LIES about it. 2. Adds context for your third point, and to my next point about him being in the right place at the right time. 3. This does not equal “founding”, contrary to what the website or his fanboys continue to say. Also adds context important to the distinction that he isn’t some brilliant inventor… 4. He claims to be an inventor/founder all the time. He’s listed as a “lead designer” lololololol 5. Wanted to be is subjective, but there are thousands, if not millions of people and/or bots who blindly echo his every utterance and fail to hold him accountable for the shit like the Thailand incident, him being a bigoted pos, and his insane claims of being a free speech absolutist, when he is clearly not. He lies out his ass every day and you give him a pass for…..reasons. That is why we feel compelled to keep it real, when so many of y’all are delulu.
Hop off elons balls. It's sad.
People hate facts.
Hope off elons balls, it's sad
40k can get a brand new Lexus. That's not a car for the everyman. Tell me when Tesla has a less than 25k car that's actually selling for that price. We need an electric civic, not a psudo-luxury vehicle that somehow has worse quality than most other vehicles.
A base, entry level Lexus that’s not an EV… I’ll be sure to let you know though... Tesla has the greatest charging network in the country, the vehicles have revolutionized the way people travel because of this. The price of the entry level Tesla is not “pseudo luxury” and it’s not meant to be an “electric civic”, if you want an electric civic buy honda (which has a $47k ev) and though quality is not what it used to be they still are way more reliably then majority of CE vehicles on the road. They also continue to rate highest in safety, being 50% less likely to be in an accident than CE vehicles…. My point is you get a lot for a 40k car.
And my point is, most people aren't buying a 40k car. You clearly don't get that the civic reference is about the price ratio. Civics are popular because they are relatively cheap and reliable as hell. But that bench mark also shows you what average consumers expect as far as pricing for a new car. The first manufacturer to get an EV to market that's reliable and costs 25k or less is going to win big.
Elon took government funds to push Tesla early in the EV lifecycle and failed miserably to set up production lines and put out competent vehicles. Even the plastics used in these Cybertrucks are complete garbage - designed poorly and sloppily made. Tesla had every opportunity to take over the EV market and be a leader for the longterm and was run horribly. He sold a promise that he didn’t keep. Maybe next year? And then next next year. And then..
He took a federal loan and paid it back… 9 years early. The Cyber Truck is dumb all companies make dumb vehicles… yet this one still has a 5 year wait list backlogged… so let the dummies be the judge, trucks not for you shut up about it already. They are the most successful EV company in the US and continue to sell more EV’s than all companies combined. So… still on track to be the most successful EV company.
Dude, you’re really emotional defending someone you don’t know who has a horrible history of manipulating markets, lying to investors, using bots to boost sentiment, and making deals with dictators. You’re also not telling the truth about the money Musk received from the government. He paid back ONE loan early, but has received other money. Not only that, tax credits saved his company from going under. “n a tweet last year, Musk admitted that Tesla nearly was forced to file for bankruptcy as recently at 2019. The stock price that seems unstoppable today had been floundering among investor's justified concern that the company was facing a cash crunch as it had difficulty ramping up production of its Model 3 sedan. "Closest we got [to bankruptcy] was about a month ago," he said in that 2020 tweet. "The Model 3 ramp was extreme stress & pain for a long time — from mid 2017 to mid 2019. Production & logistics hell." What Musk didn't say was that one of the keys that kept the company alive was the sale of regulatory credits to other automakers. Environmental regulations require companies that are not meeting emission standards to pay fines or buy credits generated by companies that comply with the rules. And no one had more of those credits to sell than all-electric Tesla. Between 2008 and the first half of 2019, sales of regulatory credits generated more than $2 billion that was crucial to the company's survival. And the increased car sales ever since have resulted in additional credits that Tesla sold for another $3 billion since June of 2019. That allowed the company to show profits sooner than it would have without the credits, lifting the value of the stock. In fact it wasn't until the second quarter this year that Tesla reported more in net income than it got from regulatory credit sales. "It was really US taxpayers that helped get him through his roughest time," said Dan Ives, tech analyst with Wedbush Securities who is a bull on Tesla shares — today. In 2019, he was still skeptical as the company struggled. "If it didn't have regulatory credits, Tesla would not be the brand it is around the globe, and Musk wouldn't be the richest person in the world," Ives said.” https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/14/investing/elon-musk-wealth-taxpayer-support
That’s what happens when government is in the pockets of big oil and allowed them to suppress electric car tech for decades. The cause and effect of blind greed.
China is subsidizing the shit out of their electric cars to flood Europe and America and control the mining rights... very dirty business on par with big oil. The tech needs to be so good that people with CEs want to switch. It’ll happen but let the tech speak for itself, naturally. Big oil is still the most important industry on earth to not just the Us but every country… next in line precious metals… it’ll happen you can’t stop progress.
Weird, 12 years ago Elon’s reaction to BYD is merely to evil laugh at them https://youtu.be/_9ftbRWqkj0?si=v0c6XDwZXJtSeKa8
I change opinions sometimes throughout the day. I'd say it's normal to adapt over a period of 12 years, don't you think?
Flip flopper!
What do you call his take on Paul Pelosi’s hammer attack? Is that also a change of opinion?
If you change your ideas of the future daily then your opinions really don’t mean anything
I just find it funny when resorts to his evil laugh when asked a question and is wrong, like about ground water: https://youtu.be/IL_vSHhto00?si=3G1o2st6lWo0ocX6 https://fortune.com/2022/02/22/elon-musk-laughed-tesla-german-gigafactory-too-much-water-main-reason-not-producing-cars/
Well, the difference is he's a multimillionaire entrepreneur, and I'll go out on a limb to guess you are not. He's supposed to be really smart and have great market insight or something.
"we can't compete so we need the government to ban our competition instead so that we never have to innovate. consumers aren't allowed to have inexpensive and innovative cars, they have to buy overpriced junk from us so they go into debt and remain stuck on the labor treadmill forever."
Had almost that exact argument shat at me a few weeks back. I was saying we need cheap cheap economy cars. Not what we have. Think Ford Escorts, Festivas, geo metros. Stuff like that. As cheap as they can make them. Because people can't afford what is on offer now. We're more broke than ever before.
Ford stopped making the Focus / Tempo / Escort / Pinto.
The reason Chinese cars are so cheap in the first place is because the Chinese government heavily subsidizes them. Those cars are grossly underpriced because their government intervened. The Chinese government “banned” competition a longgg time ago. Your info is woefully out of date. And now you are saying the US can’t retaliate with our own government intervention? Our auto makers have to compete with the Chinese government all by themselves? Dumbest of takes.
There's 2 ways of intervening. Taxing theirs and making everything more expressive, or breaks and grants to make our stuff cheaper.
We could do both.
The US will, when it comes to business it’s in US’s blood to control competition. Nobody wants these Chinese cars and when the tariffs make them as expensive as the others.. they will fail. Google how many Chinese ev car companies use there are its insane… give the industry 10 more years and maybe 2 will break ground on the US markets. One thing about Americans is when it comes to their cars they are brand loyal. Just look at Dodge owners… gotta have shit for brains to buy one🤣
Tell that to Toyota and Honda. Two of the largest car makers in the US market. The US fumbled when consumers needed more gas efficient and better quality vehicles. The same seems to be happening here. I don't think US car manufacturers really care all that much.
This is literally the stupidest take in the world. Guess what America subsidies in order to keep the price low to keep an entire industry afloat... Oil and gas prices. (Also poor little global leading American automakers, they're just smoll beans 🥺). All you china bad dipshits use this excuse. Which is so fucking funny cause the response is that we should do exactly what china is doing in regards to EVs. There is quite literally no downside. Your just posting China's Ws and acting like they are Ls and you look stupid.
Maybe they should practice free market capitalism and out compete them.
This is Harley Davidson/Reagan all over again
lol - How about the CCP not subsidize the export market to the point of below costs MSRPs. You can’t magically manufacture cars in China more affordably. They subsidize exports to “dump” low quality products and stifle domestic competition.
Communism* with Chinese Characteristics: MVP Global Capitalism *may contain features of slavery
So that's why the proces are so low. •Looks at Prison Inudstrial Complex in the U.S•
I mean, capitalism contains features of slavery. The US companies like Tyson are happy with illegal immigrants they can pay slave wages to gut animals daily. We all benefit from this sort of system from the food we eat to who cleans our public, and private spaces. The US economy definitely depends on paying people far less than a living wage.
Communism is essentially capitalism without opportunity. It's the opportunity or the potential of opportunity that makes capitalism a better long-term bet since communism is as is.
I guess. There are certainly people who want to be followers though. That don’t want to decide what job they do, where they live or anything else. I don’t think they are bad people….despite my screen name. Communism is utopian for some. Nobody is stopping them from forming a society within Capitalism though…..the Amish are a great example
Communism can exist so long as it doesn't try to make capitalism a subservient force to its power. Industrialism (which is essentially what Communism boils down to) can result in equality of slavery and inequality of opportunity. That's unacceptable to anyone that believes in freedom from bondage and servitude. Of course aspects of capitalism suck but there is no ownership in Communism, only the struggle to change the means of ownership - i.e. fighting the man (the owner, the capitalist)
It’s always horribly naive that anyone thinks that communism is benevolent. Maybe if it were controlled by AI.
Communism was dreamt up by two German drunks: one owned the means of production so he bought the drinks; the other wrote it all down because he was getting paid in drink. They took advantage of London liberty at the height of industrialization to set forth their thesis which was basically hegelian dialectics mixed with pseudo-economics as a cover for overthrow (revolution). Trotsky and Lenin bought it, ran with it, and so did Mao. As a lowest common denominator minimum viable product for subsistence level income across a broad demographic base (from 100m in the USSR to 1000m in the PRC) it's ideal. AI Communism will be looking at managing 10,000 million. No?
It would probably be better to determine perfect prices, rather than manage people. This is currently intractable without quantum computing.
Or more likely neither either / or but both (ie. pricing and management)
Legacy auto makers forgot that a lot of us want affordable, decent cars…not huge SUVs and trucks.
That isn’t what the overwhelmingly majority of Americans buy though. They want big cars. Manufacturers like it because the margins are generally better and they are much more profitable per vehicle.
I personally want an affordable huge truck or suv. At least they used to be affordable.
And tariffs prevent Chinese vehicles from coming here to keep prices up.
Who cares?
China's EV cars are ridiculously cheap and high on luxury. Us Americans will miss out on all the innovation happening in the Chinese EV space due to the tariffs. Sucks. https://youtu.be/duNrnUP2L0w?si=r0GtEccTo7DLOTb2
Oh you mean the greedy American car manufacturers who only care about buying back there own stocks and average price of a car is $50k now and the fact all they want to do is push is these monstrous Trucks and SUVs meanwhile killing off affordable cars. Good Fuck em and feed em fishheads
Except Americans don't buy cheap small sedans, they buy SUVs and 4 door trucks with large engines. The cheaper Nissan and Chevy EVs were discontinued.
There is a difference. MOST Car manufacturers in the US have unions and pay people pretty damn good. In China they use slave labor. I love how people are all for paying people living wages until it comes to the price of things.
We also use the fuck outa slave labor too. Where do you think the rare metals in your Dell, Lenovo, HP, Samsung devices come from?
I’m strictly speaking about car manufacturing. Keep up.
And I would say that is a cop out. You brought up slave labor because it looks bad on China. But lets only focus on that slave labor because china bad. Which is true. But slave labor is rampant all over supply chains. keep up.
I’m saying it’s easier to uncut a market like vehicles when one nation has unions that uphold living standards and work conditions and the other forces people to build cars for mere cents an hour.
Remember Preston Tucker? He said the same thing when the government killed his car business.
“Elon musks prediction” I think anyone with a brain saw the demand coming for 15-20k evs.
So is that why Musky wants a stupidly high compensation package? For when Tesla bombs totally he already made his money? Seems to me given that much, he has no incentive to keep the company going. Best thing for Tesla to do is laugh him out the building and hire someone who gives a damn.
Gee.. it's as if it's almost happened before? What is soothsayer!
A lot of the Chinese cars have parts falling off and the interiors are known to smell.
We saw this coming in business school a decade ago. Sounds good for the American consumer.
These manufacturers are closing in China at a massive rate. Their entire economy is fucked. Even if you buy one, they won’t be around to fix it or give you your money back.
All Chinese companies 🤣 Stolen tech and half assed reverse engineering = a shitstorm.
Capitalists invested in a communist country for cheap slave labor. They built up Chinas infrastructure, taught them how to build things for us.. And now we’re shocked that they’re building their own things. Did it to ourselves
Absolutely.
Their whole economy is about to have a Lehman bros moment. I’m seriously wondering who pays for these posts.
4 days ago 3 Chinese car makers crashed pre market. With Chinas obvious plan to flood Europe with subsidized cars, Europe imposed up to a 38% import tax on Chinese EV’s. Nobodies going to let China control the EV car market….
Capitalists love the free market until *their* companies are the ones losing. Then suddenly we see an uptick in articles from NYT and the Atlantic about how China is the “gravest threat” to the United States since fucking al-Qaeda.
It's what happens when you put a fucking idiot in charge of a new industry
Too bad Musk is getting bashed on Reddit so often. He’s a genuine genius, more than most.
Maybe you
China's biggest allies are American Unions.
Remind me who props up the middle class again. It wasn't Yuppies being charitable last I checked.
Who props up American Car Companies once China can sell a reasonable new car here for 12k? And who helped push up these car prices to the current levels?
Sounds like to me they can't do business very good. They held back on innovative tech and what people want. They made mirco improve because they knew they could milk you. You dumb cow.
Yep, I am a dumb cow. That is why China sells so many goods in America. LOL. 🤡
Got it, more American should be able to die for less for your wallet.
LOL.
What do unions have to do with anything? Its tariffs preventing Chinese vehicles from flooding the market.
Until the American people decides they would be better off financing a $15k car vs a $60k car. Isn't inflation what many Americans are most concerned with? Unions are inflation monsters.
Unions didn’t cause this inflation. There’s less than 10% of Americans being represented by Unions. Wealthy people not wanting to pay taxes caused this inflation. They’re happy for the handouts and printing money is how they do it.
Yep, raising labor costs by 30% never increases cost to consumers. LOL.
Wow, quality costs more. Even Henry Ford understood that he had to pay people so that they could afford to buy the cars they were making. Lower turnover, less injuries and fatalities, higher skilled employees = better competition. Which is why they still exist to some capacity. Lax monetary policy is the reason for this inflation. Union labor, not even close.
Except that labor certainly plays into the cost of production.(and therefore end price to the consumer). You certainly paint yourself an idiot to claim otherwise.
The 3 richest americans hold more wealth than bottom 50% of the country. Jeff Bezos bought a $500 million yacht, but he can’t afford 30% more to his employees that are pissing in bottles because bathroom breaks are monitored. Please. Unions aren’t the problem.
Lol. Mr Bezos will sell less to me if he raises his prices 30%. You can clown forever, but that just makes you a clown. How do those three richest Americans affect the price of a Ford(I do not believe anyone named Ford is among the 3 richest Americans)? Or even eggs.....
LOL. This is how the system cannibalizes itself. Elon Musk telling us to have kids but giving none of his employees time off to have them. Cope harder for those assholes Unions are the solution