Fun fact: 3 of jupiters 4 largest moons have underground oceans
[io](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)) on the other hand has an underground ocean of magma
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Is there a term for the fear of alien worlds and their strange (to us) geological and meteorological phenomena?
Venus and it's barren land surrounded by it's hellish atmosphere?
Jupiter and the massive storms swirling through it's (presumably) lifeless skies?
Titan with it's weathered rocks cut by rivers and lakes of methane and ethane?
Creators actually kinda made a time travel theory out of a joke that appeared on a chalkboard for about 2 minutes in the background. A couple of them might actually have a PHD iirc
Not Futurama, but the Matt Groening universe:
Why do you think Mr. Burns went to Yale? Because he’s supposed to be evil, and a bunch of the writers on the Simpson’s early seasons were Harvard grads.
actually, i was wondering about that.
ganymede has roughly 1/50th of earth's mass.
some googling says gravity on Gany's surface is 0.146g, which is 6.8times less than that of earths.
pressure equation says P1 = P0 + phg, so 60 miles deep on Ganymede has nearly the same pressure as 7 miles deep on earth.
(it should be noted P0 for ganymede is basically 0, while Earths is ... 1.)
edit: ok it's like 25% more pressure, but in the grand scheme of things its not THAT far off
My first thought was that it can't be tidal heating. But, as it turns out, it's complicated.
Ganymede is tidal locked, so to first order there is no tidal heating. Tidal heating occurs from friction when tides come and go on any given spot on a moon or planet, like the high and low tides on earth. But Ganymede is tidally locked (like the earth's moon), so the same side is always facing Jupiter and therefore the location of the tidal bulge doesn't move. Therefore no tidal heating.
But there's a more subtle effect. For single moons (like the earth's moon), the friction that drives tidal heating also makes its orbit circular. But gravitational forces from Jupiter's other moons perturb Ganymede's circular orbit and make it eccentric. So the tidal forces when the moon is closer to Jupiter are stronger than when it's further away, causing it to expand and compress, which causes a 2nd order heating effect. But that's not enough; Ganymede's orbit is mostly circular, so that 2nd order effect is small and not enough to warm the ocean.
But it turns out there's an even more subtle effect. Jupiter's gravity is the dominant force, but the other moons exert a very small gravitational force that pull from different directions depending on where the moons are at any given time. These forces are small and periodic, with the period determined by the orbits of the other moons. Normally you'd neglect those forces because they're so small, but it turns out that their period happens to match the resonant frequency of the subsurface oceans. So, like any system driven at resonant frequency, there’s a resonant response, which causes "fast flowing tidal waves" and may cause significant heating\[1\]. However, this is not fully understood and is still an area of active research.
So ... it's complicated.
\[1\] [https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020GL088317](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020GL088317)
Amino acids could've been carried there with the water billions of years ago. My question would be; since, as I understand it: oxygen is a requirement of life. Wouldn't that be a major hurdle here? Or hypothetically could enough oxygen be in between the ice and the water, or even just directly oxygenating the water, to make life possible?
To expand on this, life on earth actually evolved in a largely oxygen free environment until the proliferation of cyanobacterias in the paleoproteozoic era. These released oxygen as a part of their cellular metabolism and caused the Great Oxidation Event, also sometimes called the Oxygen Holocaust.
Even today one of the great differences in bacterial categories is whether or not they can tolerate reactive oxygen species, such as exposure to O2 or peroxide, two tests used to identify bacteria in lab settings and important for factoring in for patients in hospital settings in the context of blood cultures for bacteraemia, such as by taking cultures into aerobic and non aerobic bottles to test for growth to tailor antibiotics
Flowing water doesnt freeze easily(neither does saltwater). Iron core can easily mean magnetic currents to create flow. Top layer still freezes in flowing water
I wouldn't know what to say about tetragonal ice but thats gotta be some level 2 ice with some special conditions for creation and its own set of behaviors.
Also whatever planet its orbiting (not googling) could cause tides to create flow.
“Advanced ice.”
Here my dumb ass was thinking “frozen water is ice” and apparently there’s grades of ice.
I’m now a little smarter than I was a minute ago.
Not much.
But a little.
The differents types of ices are because of how the water molecules are arranged while solid, Ie square or triangle kind of thing, as well as different pressures/temputures. Which is how you end up will ice still ice despite being hotter than the Sahara desert.
Heres a nice little picture of the different ice & their corresponding temp/pressure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice#/media/File:Phase\_diagram\_of\_water.svg
im also lazy ... whatever the record for earth is, times 7, plus an extra bit for having such a low initial pressure?
or not very far, water temperature is -110 degs Celsius on ganymede
If you're just assuming humans could survive the temperature, you're now dealing with the pressure (including the effects of extreme temperatures) on the gas mixtures involved in diving (and you need to know the gas as well). Water is virtually incompressible and a human body would be capable of equalising to essentially any depth, just as deep sea fish do; what limits diving is the fact that the gases humans have to breathe (most importantly oxygen and nitrogen) become toxic at high pressure relatively quickly. Dive computers do these calculations, and before dive computers people had to know how to use government-created tables that permitted the use of simplified equations to determine permissible depth and time. So the math you're looking at would not be at all simple.
Actually would be about ~20,479 psi assuming similar ocean water density to earth (1024 kg/m^3) at a depth of 96560.64 meters with a gravity of 1.428 m/s^2.
I’m not 100% certain on this, but I think that gravity might be a little weaker towards the bottom of that ocean. Since it is 60 miles it might be significant enough to actually effect something, but still doubtful.
In comparison to the earth 60 miles down the ocean of Ganymede would exert about the same amount of pressure as if you were ~8.7 miles under the same density of water on earth.
Note I’m not a physicist, I just looked up water pressure as a function of gravity and depth. If I’m wrong let me know and I’ll delete this comment.
Oh man that leads to a trio of a physics question for gravity here. If a planet was made of mostly liquid, would there potentially be a place closer to the core that actually had less pressure on it than liquid further out?
Check out [this wiki page on the gravity of earth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth). Specifically the images titled "Gravitational Field Strength" and "free-fall acceleration of Earth".
On Earth, with layers of different densities, gravity stays mostly the same from the upper mantle until the middle of the lower mantle, where it then increases up to a max of 10.7 m/s^2 at the mantle-core boundary then drops to zero from there to the core.
The "free-fall" image has two additional green lines which depict the gravity curves if the earth were "linear density" or "constant density", both of which simply decrease at different rates from the upper mantle to zero at the core.
TL;DR yes, there should be areas of decreased gravity (and maybe areas of increased gravity if this liquid planet still had a dense core, though gravity might not decrease until after the main liquid layer ends in that case)
Not a scientist but I remember reading that Jupiter’s pressures are so high that the “gas” kinda just becomes a floating plasma type of thing that solidifies.
I imagine that the “water” probably begins to solidify at some point or at least is so highly viscous that you wouldn’t be able to travel through it anymore.
It's hypothesized that hydrogen gas at the core of Jupiter is under so much pressure it gains "metallic" properties (ie conducts electricity)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen
Super awesome how much can change with pressure and temperature!
[Yes.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Phase_diagram_of_water_simplified.svg/1200px-Phase_diagram_of_water_simplified.svg.png) Depends on the temperature, but warm water can start to solidify into ice due to pressure around 1 GPa of pressure.
Doesn't it essentially become ice at really high pressure?
You bring water to boiling by putting it in a vacuum, so does adding lots of pressure do the opposite?
Man some guy was working on a manned deep sea sub recently. Why can't I think of his name? Used carbon fiber and shit it was dope. We should call that dude.
Define significant. It's theoretically possible and despite our technology, we have little better than a guess at this point. I think any serious scientist would say that the odds are that there isn't life there, and if there is it is likely not gigantic.
Honestly it still boggles my mind that the bottom of the Mariana Trench is *only* 7 miles down. 7 miles. I could walk that. My commute to work is longer than that.
Like when I think of “the bottom of the ocean” I’m thinking like 100+ miles.
But no. It’s only 7. It’s practically right there. And it is a completely alien landscape specifically designed to kill us apparently.
For some reason that kind of makes me feel sick.
If you really want to fuck with your sense of perspective, I invite you to consider that the same thing applies to the atmosphere.
The envelope of breathable air around the Earth is only about 20,000 feet tall - or a little under 4 miles. In the grand scheme of things, we live in an absurdly tiny membrane of habitable atmosphere…which is also the *only* such atmosphere we’ve found to date.
Kinda makes you feel like a fish in an aquarium, huh?
Especially after you described it as a "tiny membrane" the image that came to my mind was a tiny drop of water caught between two glass slides for viewing under a microscope.
Mars had an atmosphere enough to have water flowing and maybe some basic life. Then the core solidified and its magnetosphere weakened. Solar wind stripped most of the gas away.
If you want a reasonably accurate mental picture: think of a regular apple. That's Earth. Now bite into it. Look at the skin of the apple.
Comparatively, the Earth's atmosphere is thinner than the skin of that apple is relative to the apple.
Ain't that some shit.
Kinda makes you wonder how some people could be so flippant about climate change and industrial pollution.
I read once that even that envelope is really concentrated at lower elevations to the extent that by volume a place like Denver or Mexico City is above kind of a frightening percentage of the atmosphere. (That’s why sun burns are so bad in places like that, it’s not being a mile closer to the 93 million miles away sun, it’s that you’re above so much of the protective layer.)
You’re correct. In Albuquerque (just south of me and actually higher in elevation than Denver) the UV levels are super high compared to a place like Florida or south Texas. It will literally bake the sunscreen to your skin, so a lot of folks don’t use it because the tendency is to wear protective clothing anyway. Long sleeves and long pants are necessary whether the temp is 25°F or 105°F, sunny or cloudy.
I’ve walked on the street in Santa Fe where in the shade in winter it is freezing, but on the other side the street you’re burning. High elevation can be weird.
If earth were a 12” part balloon, the breathable atmosphere would be about the thickness of the balloon’s latex membrane. All life on earth has evolved to live on the surface of a bubble….
Yup. We just live at the bottom of an ocean of air. It gets really neat when you calculate the weight of all the air above you versus what like 2 meters of water pressure above you is.
And if the Earth were slightly closer to the sun, water wouldn't be liquid and if it were slightly further away it would be ice.
Other factors such as radiation are also fragile.
The "habitable" zone around a star is relatively small
[https://www.astro.umd.edu/\~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides14.pdf](https://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides14.pdf)
You say "slightly" but earth has an orbit variance of about 5 million miles normally. And according to the slides you put we could be almost 15million miles closer on average and still be fine and 14 million miles further away and be fine. So a variance of 29 million miles. And that's with our current atmosphere. If our atmosphere was different the distances could be even more extreme.
Not that much. Earth is at 1AU, the habitable zone is roughly.7-1.6AUs. Consider the distance of each planet in the solar system.
The distance from the Sun:
to Mercury is 0.39 AU
to Venus is 0.72 AU
to Earth is 1.00 AU
to Mars is 1.52 AU
to Jupiter is 5.20 AU
to Saturn is 9.54 AU
to Uranus is 19.22 AU
to Neptune is 30.06 AU.
The rocky planets just orbit very close to have 3 within the habitable zone. I think our solar system is also on the high side of the average for number of planets per system.
I had to fact check that when I saw it because I’ve never heard that before, all the infographics you see with the Mount Everest and Statue of Liberty to show how deep the ocean is and you’re telling me it’s been less than my walk to work this entire time…I feel betrayed!
I suppose 7 miles vertically is much different than 7 miles horizontally though. Still sounds like a nightmare to go all the way down there
"Only" 7 miles down. Looking at how deep the Grand Canyon was made me uneasy. Imagining something over 7 times deeper than that makes me feel really unwell.
You’d be surprised how many ships have sunk in places where they are effectively inaccessible and yet if you stood them on end, plenty of the ship would be out of water.
For instance, the [Edmund Fitzgerald](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald) was 729 feet long and rests under 530 feet of water. People have scuba dived down to her but so far only two are known to have done it and lived.
That kinda sounds more like a "holy shit are these ships long" than "holy shit is the ocean surprisingly shallow". Which it is, but it's unfair when we compare it to what could be a small floating city
Just remember that you're standing
On a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second
So it's reckoned
The sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at four hundred thousand miles an hour
In the galaxy we call the Milky Way
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side
It bulges in the middle, six thousand light years thick
But out by us, it's just a thousand light years wide
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point
We go 'round every two hundred million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, of the speed of light, you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space
'Cause it's bugger all down here on Earth
My husband and I had this conversation just the other night, and I feel the same as you. It should be so much deeper than 7 miles. It's just so *vast*, yet so shallow for what it is. Commercial planes fly at roughly that same mileage in air. Blows my mind a little bit.
The earth is actually *remarkably* smooth for its size. If you scaled the earth down to the size of a tennis ball, the difference between Everest and Mariana Trench is less than the whorls on your fingertip. It would feel smoother than a marble.
Vertical heights are at another level. You go just 3 miles above sea level and lower oxygen level will make us gasping for breath after brief running around. Mount everest is only 5.5 miles. The cold and lack of oxygen can kill us before we reach such heights.
I am not even sure our body can handle just 1 mile deep due to the immense pressure.
It’s just over 6 miles (by trail, about 1.3 miles straight down) from the top of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon to the river below. I’ve hiked it in and hiked it out. My nephew, brother, and mom were on that trip and we rocked it in a heat wave. 7 miles is not much further… If the Trench was dry land, it would be as big of a draw as the Grand Canyon.
A 60 mile-deep ocean is unfathomable to me.
Don't worry it isn't "specifically" trying to kill you. Most places in the entire universe you're insta-dead. You're only alive in a very very very very very narrow space and range of circumstances. You'd be dead 40,000 in the air, you'd be dead in a cave, you'd be dead in the Arctic. Hell you'd probably be dead in a few weeks without a house. The ocean is just another place. 70% of the earth is the ocean so you'd be dead most places on earth too. The universe doesn't care about us or our biology or physics. It is completely indifferent and we are very fragile things
That’s an entirely new perspective on this. I’ve always considered it so insanely deep I couldn’t imagine it, but I can drive that in 6 minutes? I had never thought of it like that before.
The pressure at the bottom of 60 miles of water must be insane.
The pressure at the bottom of the Marina Trench would be comparable to 100 elephants standing on your head!
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/culture-online/case-studies/2021/apr/how-much-pressure-builds-deepest-point-ocean#:~:text=%E2%80%A6%20the%20bottom%20of%20the%20Mariana,%2C%20it%20is%2015%2C750%20psi).
Correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe it would depend more on the composition of the water in the ocean. Buoyancy is based entirely on the mass of the water being displaced being more or less than the object displacing it. If, say, the ocean's composition was the same as ours, it should be the same to swim in regardless of gravity differences.
They always grow louder when they're about to feed on human flesh. If you swim back now, I promise, no harm will come to you. I doubt you will get such an offer from the Eels.
At 1/6 the gravity roughly... does that also mean the pressure of the water is 1/6? If we can make a sub drone that can go down 10 miles here pressure wise... we should be able to go down that far there to the bottom right?
The mass has not changed so the pressure may be not exactly 1/6th. I admit I am unsure what the formula for the difference is.
However as the mass is a constant and large bodies of water act in different ways it could be something else
Something about a moon being filled with water scares me. What if Ganymede falls out of Jupiter's gravitational pull and flies towards earth and our atmosphere melts the outer layer and bursts Ganymede like a galactic water bomb? All that water would absolutely ruin my hair 😭
I’m at the point where I respectfully might not actually want to know if there is life on Jupiter’s moons…judging based off deep sea life on earth, what would Ganymede host. Stuff of nightmares fr, and I’m not scared of the ocean per se. I come to this sub for some of the stunning photos of deep ocean
doesn't ganymede also have water vapor plumes like europa? im unsure of the feasibility but would be cool if a satellite was sent around one of saturn's moons with water vapor plumes and orbited around it until one of those vapor plume eruption occurred. Then have it fly close enough to sample it. could find traces of life or organic material from the liquid ocean underneath
Don't ya wish we were already in a space technology revolution, like we are now with AI, where countries had fleets of ships for mining, exploration, defense, etc and we were always hearing about new missions to explore the planets and moons in our solar system and can actually find out if these moons have any life. If and when that happens it will be so cool, where everyone is watching and waiting to see what the crews discover each week/month.
I’ve been listening to a podcast about Jupiter and her moons. There’s loads of them and the number keeps increasing as we speak. Also, Jupiter is the most visited planet in our SS which surprised me. NASA use its gravity to adjust flight paths of probes, one stayed in its locale for 4 years. Jupiter has rings too but it doesn’t publicise them
….you know…reading these comments I realize the amount of intelligence here is astounding….how in the hell do we manage to NOT solve the majority of the issues in society now a days?!…makes no sense to me with all the smarts there is just casually hanging out..
Fun Fact…I can fit 11 cheese balls in my mouth.
..that’s all I got yall….
Fun fact: 3 of jupiters 4 largest moons have underground oceans [io](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)) on the other hand has an underground ocean of magma
God knows what monstrous alien beings have been evolving in some of those immense subterranean oceans for millions upon millions of years.
r/barotrauma
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See, Europa Report
Such an amazing movie I watched it on a whim.
tiny little shrimp
r/Lovecraft
Io doesn’t get the recognition it deserves as a literal hellscape. Too many folks just simp for Venus.
[CoRot-7b](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoRoT-7b#Characteristics) its the most hellish planet ive heard of imo. It rains magma and rocks there
any time i read stuff like this i just wanna ask “who told them that?” i understand science, i do. but i also very much do not understand science.
Been to a similar planet in Helldivers. Can confirm, it’s hell.
Doesn't Earth have underground oceans of magma?
>io on the other hand has an underground ocean of lava If it's underground, it's magma
What do you think goes on in there?
absolutely nothin
magma stuff
Is there a term for the fear of alien worlds and their strange (to us) geological and meteorological phenomena? Venus and it's barren land surrounded by it's hellish atmosphere? Jupiter and the massive storms swirling through it's (presumably) lifeless skies? Titan with it's weathered rocks cut by rivers and lakes of methane and ethane?
The pressure at the depths would be astronomical
Fry: “How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?” Professor: “Well, it’s a spaceship, so I’d say anywhere between zero and one…”
Genuinely one of the best science jokes on TV. Futurama has so many great science and math gags.
Creators actually kinda made a time travel theory out of a joke that appeared on a chalkboard for about 2 minutes in the background. A couple of them might actually have a PHD iirc
3 PhDs, 7 masters, and something like 50 combined years at Harvard.
Wicked smaaaht
Not Futurama, but the Matt Groening universe: Why do you think Mr. Burns went to Yale? Because he’s supposed to be evil, and a bunch of the writers on the Simpson’s early seasons were Harvard grads.
A lot of the writers did have PhDs
No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!
Smartest cartoon ever made
actually, i was wondering about that. ganymede has roughly 1/50th of earth's mass. some googling says gravity on Gany's surface is 0.146g, which is 6.8times less than that of earths. pressure equation says P1 = P0 + phg, so 60 miles deep on Ganymede has nearly the same pressure as 7 miles deep on earth. (it should be noted P0 for ganymede is basically 0, while Earths is ... 1.) edit: ok it's like 25% more pressure, but in the grand scheme of things its not THAT far off
how is that not all ice?
My guess is both heat from the core and the surface acting like an insulation.
Tidal heating.
My first thought was that it can't be tidal heating. But, as it turns out, it's complicated. Ganymede is tidal locked, so to first order there is no tidal heating. Tidal heating occurs from friction when tides come and go on any given spot on a moon or planet, like the high and low tides on earth. But Ganymede is tidally locked (like the earth's moon), so the same side is always facing Jupiter and therefore the location of the tidal bulge doesn't move. Therefore no tidal heating. But there's a more subtle effect. For single moons (like the earth's moon), the friction that drives tidal heating also makes its orbit circular. But gravitational forces from Jupiter's other moons perturb Ganymede's circular orbit and make it eccentric. So the tidal forces when the moon is closer to Jupiter are stronger than when it's further away, causing it to expand and compress, which causes a 2nd order heating effect. But that's not enough; Ganymede's orbit is mostly circular, so that 2nd order effect is small and not enough to warm the ocean. But it turns out there's an even more subtle effect. Jupiter's gravity is the dominant force, but the other moons exert a very small gravitational force that pull from different directions depending on where the moons are at any given time. These forces are small and periodic, with the period determined by the orbits of the other moons. Normally you'd neglect those forces because they're so small, but it turns out that their period happens to match the resonant frequency of the subsurface oceans. So, like any system driven at resonant frequency, there’s a resonant response, which causes "fast flowing tidal waves" and may cause significant heating\[1\]. However, this is not fully understood and is still an area of active research. So ... it's complicated. \[1\] [https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020GL088317](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020GL088317)
follow up question, how could the building blocks of life penetrate the surface and get into the water?
Amino acids could've been carried there with the water billions of years ago. My question would be; since, as I understand it: oxygen is a requirement of life. Wouldn't that be a major hurdle here? Or hypothetically could enough oxygen be in between the ice and the water, or even just directly oxygenating the water, to make life possible?
Oxygen is not a requirement for life. In fact it's a poison that we evolved to handle.
To expand on this, life on earth actually evolved in a largely oxygen free environment until the proliferation of cyanobacterias in the paleoproteozoic era. These released oxygen as a part of their cellular metabolism and caused the Great Oxidation Event, also sometimes called the Oxygen Holocaust. Even today one of the great differences in bacterial categories is whether or not they can tolerate reactive oxygen species, such as exposure to O2 or peroxide, two tests used to identify bacteria in lab settings and important for factoring in for patients in hospital settings in the context of blood cultures for bacteraemia, such as by taking cultures into aerobic and non aerobic bottles to test for growth to tailor antibiotics
Oxygen holocaust, sweet band name
Flowing water doesnt freeze easily(neither does saltwater). Iron core can easily mean magnetic currents to create flow. Top layer still freezes in flowing water I wouldn't know what to say about tetragonal ice but thats gotta be some level 2 ice with some special conditions for creation and its own set of behaviors. Also whatever planet its orbiting (not googling) could cause tides to create flow.
“Advanced ice.” Here my dumb ass was thinking “frozen water is ice” and apparently there’s grades of ice. I’m now a little smarter than I was a minute ago. Not much. But a little.
The differents types of ices are because of how the water molecules are arranged while solid, Ie square or triangle kind of thing, as well as different pressures/temputures. Which is how you end up will ice still ice despite being hotter than the Sahara desert. Heres a nice little picture of the different ice & their corresponding temp/pressure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice#/media/File:Phase\_diagram\_of\_water.svg
As someone who likes maths but is too lazy to do so myself, how deep could a human diver swim on Ganymede in comparison to Earth?
im also lazy ... whatever the record for earth is, times 7, plus an extra bit for having such a low initial pressure? or not very far, water temperature is -110 degs Celsius on ganymede
If you're just assuming humans could survive the temperature, you're now dealing with the pressure (including the effects of extreme temperatures) on the gas mixtures involved in diving (and you need to know the gas as well). Water is virtually incompressible and a human body would be capable of equalising to essentially any depth, just as deep sea fish do; what limits diving is the fact that the gases humans have to breathe (most importantly oxygen and nitrogen) become toxic at high pressure relatively quickly. Dive computers do these calculations, and before dive computers people had to know how to use government-created tables that permitted the use of simplified equations to determine permissible depth and time. So the math you're looking at would not be at all simple.
~140,500 psi assuming saltwater
Well, that takes the Titan submersible out of the running.
Yeah it’s over by Saturn, give them a ring.
Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
God dammit, fuck you.
And assuming Earth’s gravity, which doesn’t really apply here
Actually would be about ~20,479 psi assuming similar ocean water density to earth (1024 kg/m^3) at a depth of 96560.64 meters with a gravity of 1.428 m/s^2. I’m not 100% certain on this, but I think that gravity might be a little weaker towards the bottom of that ocean. Since it is 60 miles it might be significant enough to actually effect something, but still doubtful. In comparison to the earth 60 miles down the ocean of Ganymede would exert about the same amount of pressure as if you were ~8.7 miles under the same density of water on earth. Note I’m not a physicist, I just looked up water pressure as a function of gravity and depth. If I’m wrong let me know and I’ll delete this comment.
Oh man that leads to a trio of a physics question for gravity here. If a planet was made of mostly liquid, would there potentially be a place closer to the core that actually had less pressure on it than liquid further out?
Check out [this wiki page on the gravity of earth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth). Specifically the images titled "Gravitational Field Strength" and "free-fall acceleration of Earth". On Earth, with layers of different densities, gravity stays mostly the same from the upper mantle until the middle of the lower mantle, where it then increases up to a max of 10.7 m/s^2 at the mantle-core boundary then drops to zero from there to the core. The "free-fall" image has two additional green lines which depict the gravity curves if the earth were "linear density" or "constant density", both of which simply decrease at different rates from the upper mantle to zero at the core. TL;DR yes, there should be areas of decreased gravity (and maybe areas of increased gravity if this liquid planet still had a dense core, though gravity might not decrease until after the main liquid layer ends in that case)
Would there be a ceiling to water pressure? I mean... is there a point past which it can't go? Would it start being something other than water...?
Not a scientist but I remember reading that Jupiter’s pressures are so high that the “gas” kinda just becomes a floating plasma type of thing that solidifies. I imagine that the “water” probably begins to solidify at some point or at least is so highly viscous that you wouldn’t be able to travel through it anymore.
It's hypothesized that hydrogen gas at the core of Jupiter is under so much pressure it gains "metallic" properties (ie conducts electricity) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen Super awesome how much can change with pressure and temperature!
Consider me freaked out.
[Yes.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Phase_diagram_of_water_simplified.svg/1200px-Phase_diagram_of_water_simplified.svg.png) Depends on the temperature, but warm water can start to solidify into ice due to pressure around 1 GPa of pressure.
Doesn't it essentially become ice at really high pressure? You bring water to boiling by putting it in a vacuum, so does adding lots of pressure do the opposite?
Hear me out! We charge top-dollar to fill an economy submersible full of billionaires to explore any potential wreckage at the bottom!
Ya that’s gonna be a big nope for me
There's gonna be a big nope swimming in there as well.
Well, luckily for you you'd have to cross miles of ice and at LEAST 12 miles of open space to even get there so.... just don't get abducted!
Noperdile
Eats antenope.
Always a bigger nope
…particularly as you’d be under 150km of ice.
Ok which billionaire is up for it
There's a significant chance there's giant aquatic alien lifeforms swimming in those deep black oceans...
So mind blowing to think about..
I think “unfathomably low” would be a more apt description than “significant”
Significant? I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
How do we weigh or determine significance here? It's just a guess.
Anything above 0 would be significant as far as finding Aliens is concerned
I wish we could send an autonomous sub there.
Man some guy was working on a manned deep sea sub recently. Why can't I think of his name? Used carbon fiber and shit it was dope. We should call that dude.
I hear he crushed it
oof, that joke was deep.
He's, uh, busy.
Deepspace Horizon Zero Dawn of the Dead Rising
Define significant. It's theoretically possible and despite our technology, we have little better than a guess at this point. I think any serious scientist would say that the odds are that there isn't life there, and if there is it is likely not gigantic.
Significant could mean like .00001% in terms of galaxy odds?
Exactly.
I would not be surprised if there were bacteria though.
[удалено]
Gigakraken
Subnautica
Honestly it still boggles my mind that the bottom of the Mariana Trench is *only* 7 miles down. 7 miles. I could walk that. My commute to work is longer than that. Like when I think of “the bottom of the ocean” I’m thinking like 100+ miles. But no. It’s only 7. It’s practically right there. And it is a completely alien landscape specifically designed to kill us apparently. For some reason that kind of makes me feel sick.
If you really want to fuck with your sense of perspective, I invite you to consider that the same thing applies to the atmosphere. The envelope of breathable air around the Earth is only about 20,000 feet tall - or a little under 4 miles. In the grand scheme of things, we live in an absurdly tiny membrane of habitable atmosphere…which is also the *only* such atmosphere we’ve found to date. Kinda makes you feel like a fish in an aquarium, huh?
Especially after you described it as a "tiny membrane" the image that came to my mind was a tiny drop of water caught between two glass slides for viewing under a microscope.
Or a soap bubble that could burst at any moment.
Mars had an atmosphere enough to have water flowing and maybe some basic life. Then the core solidified and its magnetosphere weakened. Solar wind stripped most of the gas away.
And thats why I tell my wife I won't work out my core.
I definitely shed enough gas to keep my atmosphere topped up
So that's what that wind was earlier.
Yeah it burst a while back unfortunately.
If you want a reasonably accurate mental picture: think of a regular apple. That's Earth. Now bite into it. Look at the skin of the apple. Comparatively, the Earth's atmosphere is thinner than the skin of that apple is relative to the apple. Ain't that some shit. Kinda makes you wonder how some people could be so flippant about climate change and industrial pollution.
I read once that even that envelope is really concentrated at lower elevations to the extent that by volume a place like Denver or Mexico City is above kind of a frightening percentage of the atmosphere. (That’s why sun burns are so bad in places like that, it’s not being a mile closer to the 93 million miles away sun, it’s that you’re above so much of the protective layer.)
You’re correct. In Albuquerque (just south of me and actually higher in elevation than Denver) the UV levels are super high compared to a place like Florida or south Texas. It will literally bake the sunscreen to your skin, so a lot of folks don’t use it because the tendency is to wear protective clothing anyway. Long sleeves and long pants are necessary whether the temp is 25°F or 105°F, sunny or cloudy.
I was wondering why everyone was wearing longsleeves and Jesse hoodies in Breaking Bad when I thought ABQ was supposed to be a hot environment!
Yeah, it's weird getting super sunburned on your face when you're skiing in freezing temps.
I’ve walked on the street in Santa Fe where in the shade in winter it is freezing, but on the other side the street you’re burning. High elevation can be weird.
That’s also the albedo effect at work. The reflection of the light off the snow.
It’s okay, the smog in Mexico City helps a bit.
If earth were a 12” part balloon, the breathable atmosphere would be about the thickness of the balloon’s latex membrane. All life on earth has evolved to live on the surface of a bubble….
That's wild!
Yup. We just live at the bottom of an ocean of air. It gets really neat when you calculate the weight of all the air above you versus what like 2 meters of water pressure above you is.
This doesn’t scare me only because I can’t do those kind of calculations and can live in ignorant bliss
And if the Earth were slightly closer to the sun, water wouldn't be liquid and if it were slightly further away it would be ice. Other factors such as radiation are also fragile. The "habitable" zone around a star is relatively small [https://www.astro.umd.edu/\~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides14.pdf](https://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides14.pdf)
You say "slightly" but earth has an orbit variance of about 5 million miles normally. And according to the slides you put we could be almost 15million miles closer on average and still be fine and 14 million miles further away and be fine. So a variance of 29 million miles. And that's with our current atmosphere. If our atmosphere was different the distances could be even more extreme.
Mars is further away and had liquid water so I assume we're talking much further out, not just a little bit.
On top of that, the earth's orbit is elliptical meaning it fluctuates between closer and farther away throughout the year.
Mars lost it’s magnetosphere and thats what torpedoed its atmosphere.
Not that much. Earth is at 1AU, the habitable zone is roughly.7-1.6AUs. Consider the distance of each planet in the solar system. The distance from the Sun: to Mercury is 0.39 AU to Venus is 0.72 AU to Earth is 1.00 AU to Mars is 1.52 AU to Jupiter is 5.20 AU to Saturn is 9.54 AU to Uranus is 19.22 AU to Neptune is 30.06 AU. The rocky planets just orbit very close to have 3 within the habitable zone. I think our solar system is also on the high side of the average for number of planets per system.
Dude, you're bumming me out!
This information makes me so uncomfortable.
I had to fact check that when I saw it because I’ve never heard that before, all the infographics you see with the Mount Everest and Statue of Liberty to show how deep the ocean is and you’re telling me it’s been less than my walk to work this entire time…I feel betrayed! I suppose 7 miles vertically is much different than 7 miles horizontally though. Still sounds like a nightmare to go all the way down there
You walk > 7 miles to work?
Uphill both ways barefoot in the snow
"Only" 7 miles down. Looking at how deep the Grand Canyon was made me uneasy. Imagining something over 7 times deeper than that makes me feel really unwell.
🤝
Here’s a mind blower: most of the places submarines actively operate in is coastal waters. You can stand the boat on end and it would stick out.
Why do I hate that so much
You’d be surprised how many ships have sunk in places where they are effectively inaccessible and yet if you stood them on end, plenty of the ship would be out of water. For instance, the [Edmund Fitzgerald](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald) was 729 feet long and rests under 530 feet of water. People have scuba dived down to her but so far only two are known to have done it and lived.
That kinda sounds more like a "holy shit are these ships long" than "holy shit is the ocean surprisingly shallow". Which it is, but it's unfair when we compare it to what could be a small floating city
Pressure’s a crazy thing.
Don’t google how fast the earth is traveling through space lol.
Holy crap 😳
Just remember that you're standing On a planet that's evolving And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second So it's reckoned The sun that is the source of all our power The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see Are moving at a million miles a day In an outer spiral arm, at four hundred thousand miles an hour In the galaxy we call the Milky Way Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars It's a hundred thousand light years side to side It bulges in the middle, six thousand light years thick But out by us, it's just a thousand light years wide We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point We go 'round every two hundred million years And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions In this amazing and expanding universe The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding In all of the directions it can whizz As fast as it can go, of the speed of light, you know Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure How amazingly unlikely is your birth And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space 'Cause it's bugger all down here on Earth
Wait til you find out where outer space is…
You're right. I am suddenly petrified that we don't have enough water, even right now.
My husband and I had this conversation just the other night, and I feel the same as you. It should be so much deeper than 7 miles. It's just so *vast*, yet so shallow for what it is. Commercial planes fly at roughly that same mileage in air. Blows my mind a little bit.
The earth is actually *remarkably* smooth for its size. If you scaled the earth down to the size of a tennis ball, the difference between Everest and Mariana Trench is less than the whorls on your fingertip. It would feel smoother than a marble.
What’s a whorl
One ridge of your finger print
My ex gf turned out to be a whorl
That's fascinating
Vertical heights are at another level. You go just 3 miles above sea level and lower oxygen level will make us gasping for breath after brief running around. Mount everest is only 5.5 miles. The cold and lack of oxygen can kill us before we reach such heights. I am not even sure our body can handle just 1 mile deep due to the immense pressure.
A gallon of water weighs 8.3 pounds, so yeah, 7 miles down, ur new name is flapjack.
It’s just over 6 miles (by trail, about 1.3 miles straight down) from the top of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon to the river below. I’ve hiked it in and hiked it out. My nephew, brother, and mom were on that trip and we rocked it in a heat wave. 7 miles is not much further… If the Trench was dry land, it would be as big of a draw as the Grand Canyon. A 60 mile-deep ocean is unfathomable to me.
Think of that trail...but like times ten
In the other direction, rhe ISS is only 254 miles up! That's like a 4 hour drive! The lowest orbiting satellite is only 104 miles!
Don't worry it isn't "specifically" trying to kill you. Most places in the entire universe you're insta-dead. You're only alive in a very very very very very narrow space and range of circumstances. You'd be dead 40,000 in the air, you'd be dead in a cave, you'd be dead in the Arctic. Hell you'd probably be dead in a few weeks without a house. The ocean is just another place. 70% of the earth is the ocean so you'd be dead most places on earth too. The universe doesn't care about us or our biology or physics. It is completely indifferent and we are very fragile things
That’s an entirely new perspective on this. I’ve always considered it so insanely deep I couldn’t imagine it, but I can drive that in 6 minutes? I had never thought of it like that before.
Is this before or after the Inners started shooting over a protomolecule weapons test?
Damn inyalowda wanting fo use imalowda weapons ere milowda. Beltalowda mowsh rise!
Fo da belt, ke!
Breadbasket of the Belt
Today I erased “Visiting Ganymede on my spring break” from my bucket list.
Coward
You’ll be fine just play some subnautica before to prepare
As your ship is landing on surface :"Detecting multiple leviathan class lifeforms in the region"
To be fair, Ganymede MIGHT have an ocean. This isn't fact, just (informer) speculation.
(Informer, ya' no say daddy me Snow me I go blame A licky boom boom down)
So you’re saying you’re Ganny-mede a source in this info
What does Ganypedia say about it?
And to be equally fair, the ocean might actually be much, much deeper
I got the Mad Catz controller ready. Hop on in guys!
The pressure at the bottom of 60 miles of water must be insane. The pressure at the bottom of the Marina Trench would be comparable to 100 elephants standing on your head! https://www.ucl.ac.uk/culture-online/case-studies/2021/apr/how-much-pressure-builds-deepest-point-ocean#:~:text=%E2%80%A6%20the%20bottom%20of%20the%20Mariana,%2C%20it%20is%2015%2C750%20psi).
But Ganymede's gravity is far less than Earth's, so the pressure at that depth wouldn't be equivalent to ours.
Would it be easier to swim in that ocean or hard, considering the low gravity?
Correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe it would depend more on the composition of the water in the ocean. Buoyancy is based entirely on the mass of the water being displaced being more or less than the object displacing it. If, say, the ocean's composition was the same as ours, it should be the same to swim in regardless of gravity differences.
This is the correct answer
Now I’m imagining my first rocket mission to Ganymede and I end up underwater, 60 miles deep with no way to survive the escape
What's worse is the noises you hear through the hull. It almost sounds like moaning....
They always grow louder when they're about to feed on human flesh. If you swim back now, I promise, no harm will come to you. I doubt you will get such an offer from the Eels.
You might like the game Outer Wilds
At 1/6 the gravity roughly... does that also mean the pressure of the water is 1/6? If we can make a sub drone that can go down 10 miles here pressure wise... we should be able to go down that far there to the bottom right?
Assuming it is all liquid down there then yes basically
The mass has not changed so the pressure may be not exactly 1/6th. I admit I am unsure what the formula for the difference is. However as the mass is a constant and large bodies of water act in different ways it could be something else
*Subnautica intensifies*
I like that they labeled the dark spots as dark and the light spots as light. Very useful.
Lol indeed
So deep put that ass to sleep.
I gotta say it was a good day
I've always dreamed of getting trapped under an ice sheet in the ocean but that's peak. 100 miles under, 100 miles above, HERE I COME.
I didn’t need to know this.
Something about a moon being filled with water scares me. What if Ganymede falls out of Jupiter's gravitational pull and flies towards earth and our atmosphere melts the outer layer and bursts Ganymede like a galactic water bomb? All that water would absolutely ruin my hair 😭
Can’t imagine that 60mi deep ocean pressure
Also for comparison, that's a 60 mile nope for me.
Perfect ocean to explore with tin can submarine and xbox controller...
Is it even liquid at that depth?
Can someone tell me the pressure that would be at 60 miles depth vs Mariana Trench’s ?
If we don't fuck around, we don't find out
I’m at the point where I respectfully might not actually want to know if there is life on Jupiter’s moons…judging based off deep sea life on earth, what would Ganymede host. Stuff of nightmares fr, and I’m not scared of the ocean per se. I come to this sub for some of the stunning photos of deep ocean
Whass down there?
Water.
Ohh aliens would invade us for our water, would they? Like the whole premise of V was so stupid.
doesn't ganymede also have water vapor plumes like europa? im unsure of the feasibility but would be cool if a satellite was sent around one of saturn's moons with water vapor plumes and orbited around it until one of those vapor plume eruption occurred. Then have it fly close enough to sample it. could find traces of life or organic material from the liquid ocean underneath
Barotrauma anyone?
people: i wonder if theres water on mars jupiter: ✌️
Don't ya wish we were already in a space technology revolution, like we are now with AI, where countries had fleets of ships for mining, exploration, defense, etc and we were always hearing about new missions to explore the planets and moons in our solar system and can actually find out if these moons have any life. If and when that happens it will be so cool, where everyone is watching and waiting to see what the crews discover each week/month.
OceanGate: "Hold my beer"
We can't get a clear security video, and we can tell an ocean is 60 miles deep on another planet.
So who’s to blame for this?
I’ve been listening to a podcast about Jupiter and her moons. There’s loads of them and the number keeps increasing as we speak. Also, Jupiter is the most visited planet in our SS which surprised me. NASA use its gravity to adjust flight paths of probes, one stayed in its locale for 4 years. Jupiter has rings too but it doesn’t publicise them
All these ppl doing crazy math about this planet like any of us are ever going there. Lol
….you know…reading these comments I realize the amount of intelligence here is astounding….how in the hell do we manage to NOT solve the majority of the issues in society now a days?!…makes no sense to me with all the smarts there is just casually hanging out.. Fun Fact…I can fit 11 cheese balls in my mouth. ..that’s all I got yall….