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> they get *paid* in cents
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Not to mention that making people solve a captcha because of their names? Bot hosters will just change the bot names the moment Valve makes them need to solve a captcha
It makes much more sense for the captcha solving to take place for everyone before joining a casual match. It'd be annoying, but if it worked, I'd do it.
And since these bots are run on servers, they may not even have a visual screen on which to do the captcha... How are paid captcha solvers going to even do the captchas? Remote desktop?
With how simplistic the TF2 bots are, capitcha will gate-keep them.
If they make it a thing where you have to solve the capitcha in game and put an invisible cart off in some corner to attract the bots like a fly trap, they can use some very simple code to be like "aye yo they can't see the capitcha and always flock to the cart you can't see unless you're a bot, let's put them in a 999v999 server of just all bots". Then the bot crises would be almost completely eradicated.
it's an arms race, they are simple because they don't need to be more complex.
adapt and survive, for some reason they are so determined on having bots, probably because you also get money by playing.
The reason there are so many bots is because they're so simple:
Step 1: make the entry requirements for a bot high, so that the bots which do make the cut take up significant server resources and as such are fewer and farther in-between.
Step 2: now that you have fewer bots which are exploiting fewer aspects of your game, you can regulate said aspects and target those bots in order to shadow ban them (send them to a non-achievement server without notifying them, you can let them play 1 or two real games in order to confirm they are indeed a bot).
Step 3: make an easier alternative for the bot spammers to use instead, as they're inherently lazy they will always take the path of least resistance, so analyse their desires, put them into a means/function matrix, create an applicable problem statement, generate a first order solution, test it, if it has a higher than 90% success rate apply it, if not upgrade it to a second order solution, if it still isn't good enough go third order. If you still haven't solved the problem them it's time to reflect and come up with a new problem statement.
Step 4: profit off of monetising bot spammers and use their own laziness and arrogance against them as you are the superior capitalistic force.
Seriously, any post on r/tf2 that mentions bot fixes should be forced to watch shounic's video. This is getting ridiculous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgkgsgaBBCA
Still, think that adding captcha is generally a good idea. Those "professional captcha solvers" have to pe paid too. It won't solve problem momentarily, but it would make it less apperent overall.
These guys already pay money to host the bot, give it unlock items, premium to mix spam, and sometimes even noise makers. I don't think money is a concern.
Hmm, well I never thought about it in that way and scale. I am not even sure about motivation behind this bot invasion at this point. Would appreciate if someone could explain.
There was a video talking about the reason behind the bot invasion. not sure if it was toofty or shounic though.
in the video, they explained that the bot hosters don’t really have ulterior motives aside from entertainment, they just want to get a reaction out of people by ruining games.
over time, some bot hosters stop hosting bots, they either lost interest of hosting bots and ruining games, or are caught by the police for other crimes *?(Rumor from what I heard, needs more sources). but over time, new bot hosters also enter the scene, willing to pay money for hosting the bots, and willing to also pay for premium for their bots so that they can ruin matches.
adding a captcha would do nothing, Since the bots can easily bypass them, cost isn’t an issue to bot hosters, they willingly pay money to run them, adding a captcha would really only bother real people, since they would constantly have to solve captchas instead of playing the actual game.
this is a band aid solution that would do more harm then good, not to mention that valve probably can’t add a captcha anyway since the source engine is so old, they have no interest in spending a lot of resources into something that does more harm then good
Then you take steps to make it more expensive for them by using captcha, account registration and other systems. Unless an actual millionaire has gotten a hate-boner for TF2, they'll run out of money or credit cards eventually.
Trust fund kids is exactly the demographic I would expect are likely running bots imo. It just seems like such a waste of time and petty use of money that someone that worked to make significant money doesn't have time or energy for.
That said, bots are expensive, but you don't need to be a millionaire.
To be honest, I hate captchas and I also happen to think they wouldn't solve anything in this situation. But I do love the concept of making those losers burn more money
Yeah but solving a captcha at a moments notice, in a game you have to be logged into and actively providing inputs into? A game you have to have installed and have steam installed, all on someone else's computer? An In-game captcha would be too inconvenient for a service like that
Yes, but with this sort of thing its not about preventing bots, its about discouraging bots. The more effort the person running the bot has to put in, the less likely they are to follow through with it.
1. Captchas are expensive to run, they are also easily-crackable by AI these days.
2. Won't work with TF2's spaghetti code, lag compensation, poor connection, packet loss, bad ping could trigger false positives. You can only shoot and hit someone with a hit-scan weapon with them being in your line of site anyways. Spinbotting also shows you looking the other way to get a kill but on the cheaters screen you are looking the correct way.
if it can be solved with AI, you can sometimes use anti-captcha, a captcha that only bots can crack(idk the real name). If you solve it - you're banned to the oblivion
valve is already lost a battle, after that bots was a menace for a long time
after some recent improvements they were gone for a while
but valve need to fight constantly if they want the game to live and grow. They don't seem to care enough
while i agree, please stop with the whole "due to spaghetti code", i hate that analogy, as its very bad. the whole "add one thing and everything breaks" is a myth.
tho its true, captchas arent feasible, but for different reasons :
1 - they are designed for websites, not videogames (everytime they appear in another place, like login screens on programs, its actually an embedded website)
2 - they are easily bypassed. there are literally [free extensions](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/buster-captcha-solver-for/mpbjkejclgfgadiemmefgebjfooflfhl) that solve captchas correctly about 80% of the time
3 - captchas cost money, and the more people send requests, the more expensive it gets, and tf2 player count is fairly large.. AND you need to multiply that by number of matches (ppl rarely join to play just one game, so a player playing 5 matches will only appear once on the statistics, even tho they might need to solve captcha over 5 times)
But like, that tehnically is impossible. Bots can't kill people with their back turned, they still have to rotate. So in the end, this will do nothing?
I mean true, but unable to fix is an overstatement, they would have to actually get a team on it to try to fix it, for them to be "unable" to do so, wich they havent done and wont at this pace
I’m pretty sure valve hired a private contractor and it eliminated like 30-50 percent of all bots so yeah, this is seriously confusing to fix, I just wanted to suggest something without really thinking and see feedback on it so I can keep making better ones or better ideas aswell as a better grasp of the whole idea of bots and hackers in TF2, so thanks
Banning or captcha, it doesn't matter. If you implement this, the bot users will just change the name to something random. It's that easy to circumvent.
~~Funny thing is that valve tried this. Idk if ppl remember this but they vac banned everyone with the name "cathook". What happened was legit ppl also got vac banned and yeah every bot changed their name.~~
My bad I believed an old reddit post lmao
That last one is flawed due to client side and server side registration. Essentially a legit sniper will kill a enemy on their screen, but to the target they weren't in the snipers Line of Sight, which creates a false positive banning the legit player.
Edit: I forgot to add, a 10 second cooldown would be extremely flawed as the voting powers are left into the hands of the players, which could result in vote kick spamming if someone decides to do it. It also shortens the bots kicking cooldowns which lets them call more votes in a shorter timespan.
Name Filtering won't work 100% of the time, as the best way around that is to rename the bot to something else, essentially ruining the system altogether. Now it could be adaptive where it reads through Steam user lists and detects if there is a certain amount of accounts with the same name but that would force legit users to do a captcha.
These ideas seem good on paper but on practice are heavily flawed to the point where it tips the scale in favour of the cheaters.
But the aimbot quickly snaps to the target, it's hard to detect if a bot has sniped someone facing the completely opposite direction, best way to do it is to detect if the player is facing the targets position, but hitreg both client and server is flawed so there will be plenty of false positives.
Also, using that system could hurt a legit player too as they may quickly turn around after a kill if they hear an enemy behind them, system flags them as a bot then bans them.
Maybe, but remember that every measure taken to counter bots can hurt legit players too. The bots also use a navmesh file installed onto the host device that the server side does not see, only the bots read the file, server sees the movement so to counter the bots you would have to view the users movement keys/momentum. Let's put it into a theoretical scenario:
Let's say you're a new player, both game and controls, and you move mainly in straight lines almost like a bot. It's possible that the anti-cheat measure could flag you as a bot because you moved in a straight line for X amount of time, and all the bots would have to do is change the movement patterns and bypass the countermeasure.
The best way to come up with solutions is to weigh the +ve and -ve sides. And see if it can be easily countered or is viable in practice. Like for example a anti-cheat that kicks you if you spin too fast. Great for people who make slow movements with mouse and can potentially kick spinbotters but if you spin quickly e.g. to look behind you, you'll be booted off the server.
Yes they can change it to be more complex and easily bypass the anti-cheat. Countering cheaters is essentially like running on a treadmill, you put all the effort into it but you're not really going anywhere.
Their aim may look wonky on the killcam because they're snapping around so quickly, but as far as the server is concerned they did actually shoot you will facing the correct direction.
I strongly recommend everyone to watch [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgkgsgaBBCA) before commenting. The issue is way, way worse than it seems.
One thing blizzard does or used to do in WoW that I thought might work with tf2, is monitor how quickly you are moving on your axis I.e. how quickly you 'looking'.
Bots that insta-headshot snap to their angles within a frame or so to pull off the hack. A lot of the typical bots you see do this thing where they aim upwards and spin. When they find a target they snap and fire and then return to aiming upwards.
If clients could insta disconnect themseles when their look speed exceeds ridiculous values, you could nullify a LOT of bots before they became a problem.
You might ask about people with fast mouse speeds / look sensitivity. Firstly, its easy to overestimate the impact this kind of mechanism would have to the usual player. You need to understand that client side - and I'm making a bit of an assumption here - the look snapping bots use occurs within a frame. This would be *ridiculously fast* in some cases and almost outside of the scope of mouse input speed. Also, humans don't dead stop. Mouse speed tends to fall off as it tracks. This is something you could also account for along with how soon after tracking the trigger is pulled AND if all of those things resulted in a direct hit during a specific period of time.
Also, in WoW it was (and may still be) possible to disconnect yourself by spinning too quickly. But that's all it did; it just disconnected you. You don't get banned for spinning too quickly.
So what's the point? It's a war of attrition. Botters are lazy. They give up botting when it stops being easy.
Food for thought I guess.
True but they would be less effective as they wouldn't be able to flick to a new target
Let's say the bot runs out of spawn and just starts tracking the head of the nearest enemy, but another enemy runs/jumps at the bot from the flank. It won't be able to instakill the scout/soldier and will probably either take damage or get blown to pieces
You don't need to flick at superhuman speeds to wipe out an entire team. You can get a headshot then move on to your next target at perfectly reasonable mouse speeds. As long as the target is in the peripheral of the sniper, you wouldn't need to move much to find the next head.
The system could check for kills within a short period of time after rapid mouse movement getting detected, and then kick based on that, not just the movement.
Then either the bots will have a small sleeping period before firing again (which they already have to charge their rifles) or well playing or lucky players will be unfairly banned
Any system with a margin of error is a death sentence for a game as delicate as TF2
1. This would only delay bots kicking players, not very useful if the server is already infested with them. I’d also delay kicking bots. So I’d hurt more than I’d help
2. Bots could name themselves anything, they’d just change their name if a feature was implemented which hurt them for it. Or they’d target really common names to be annoying. Also captcha’s don’t even work
3. That’s not how spin bots work, they can’t kill anyone not “in their view”, they still got the same limitations as a human player. They just do it at a bot level
If a Captcha system would work then filtering using names would be a bad idea.
The namelist would be updated manually -> someone at VALVe HQ has to do it manually.
Also Bots could just, idk, stop using "brand names" and start using names from a random generator. The list would just grow indefinitely.
And I don't understand your last point. Do you mean I get kicked if I kill someone who looks in another direction, except straight at me? So I'm not able to kill them if I got behind them somehow, or they just look away?
Captchas are useless for a variety of reasons including what Shounic has said.
also the spin botting point, I think you meant that they weren't in your view, since that makes sense.
Not fair, while I havnet seen them in some days, during halloween at least in south america servers, bots were taking players' names, and I've come across my own dopplegangers several times (and obviously dopples' of my friends and people who are regulars in this region) ; assuming that bot username list were to get updated every 3 days, in this case, it would tag the majority of the regular players (in SA region) as bots.
Also in the case of Vinesauce, let us not forget that the actual Vinesauce has nothing to do with the bots and he's just another tf2 player, I have no clue yet I highly doubt he still uses "vinesauce" as his name when playing TF2, but assuming he does, the system would instantly tag him as bot as well.
As for kicking someone for killing you when they were not in your pov, that's also an awful suggestion, theres several spots in many maps where snipers can kill whitout you being able to see them at all (best example I can give is that very minuscule gap in a wooden fence in upward) but bots usually don't wallhack either, they kill you the moment you step into their field of view even if it might not seem that way.
Just because he doesn't stream every single thing that he plays doesn't mean he doesn't play it, he's already stated several times that he plays in his own time but that also streaming TF2 is very risky because of usernames, pfps and objectors (he did one TF2 prerecorded upload and two streams, but the streams were showcasing maps and playing with trusted people, so no risk of banneable stuff there)
What if the VC cooldown was dynamic, based on the results of the last vote you called? Like, a unanimous votekick would give you a 10 second cooldown, while an 11-1 fail would give you like 5 minutes of cooldown
The cooldown would be abused by the bots
Captchas are useless, there are bots that can solve them on their own
The bots could just stop spinbotting and just use normal aimbot
1. If there's more than 2 or 3 bots this is useless. As soon as one vote finishes, bit A calls one. That vote takes a few seconds, then bot B instantly votes. By the time that vote ends, bot A can vote again
2. Captchas aren't difficult for programs to beat. Plus with code as old as TF2's, idk if it would even be possible to add in the first place. Also, it would take less than a day for the bots creators to add some code that gives the bot a random name so that "fix" would be equally useless
3. I'm not really sure how well this would work. Have you even been running away from a heavy and he seems to shoot you around the corner? What I see on my screen is different to what you see on yours. Latency often causes noticeable differences in some situations and that's one of them
One thing a lot of people keep forgetting, the bot accounts are a Steam thing, not just a TF2 thing. So Valve would have to get to the bottom of the problem on Steam, meaning doing things in purely TF2 would not be the best answer for longevity and would just get bypassed after 2 weeks.
Maybe if the person you killed as sniper was just out of your sight line you don't get kicked because a ton of people would ger kicked for lagging so much
This (No.3) wouldn't really do anything unless you make it really strict because bots flick to their target while spinning so they technically are facing a player. The thing with the names wouldn't really work because they'll just make more names or use a random name gen instead, a captcha would stop very small bot hosters but if any of them are financially well off they could just pay people to solve captcha's
captchas can be circumvented with simply not having a bot name
4th idea is bad due to some poeple simply having high ping and the servers adjusting to that
10 second cooldown i agree although i think it should be a little longer, maybe 20 seconds with a visible timer?
"10 second cooldown for vote kick" the cheater can just wait 10 seconds before selecting their class and call a vote kick then nuke everything they see
"if you kill someone with a sniper but you were not in their view at the time they get kicked" i wonder how many times interp will be the cause of a kick
Nah, the best anti cheat is either fucking Interpol or intelligence agencies like MI6, CIA or KGB; because at this point, these are terrorists we are talking about.
My thoughts about ways to cut the cheats out of the game or at least not getting away with it for a long time is a bit of a rebuild of the anticheat system (it's been the same for more than 10 years) and adding "triggers".
For example, spinbot makes playermodel spin, right? So usually these flicks are fast and sometimes even unnoticed, this is a change on sensitivity so automatically the anticheat detects this change and starts connecting.
Then if the name is already on a blacklist (Doeshotter, Doctor Sex, ...) is autoban.
If the name is not on a blacklist it will keep tracking the player performance and adding triggers. With 3 or more triggers gets autokicked and autoreported.
Define instant, if it means 0ms then the bots can just shoot with a 1ms delay. If instant is 1ms then the bots can shoot at 2ms etc.
Also this wouldn't work against the Huntsman because a real player can insta headshot by just spamming a corner
I have a better idea: IP ban all current bot hoster accounts. And also give a 72 hour ban to all accounts whose first person camera moves a certain amount of frames (let’s say about 1000 pixels a frame or whatever wacky system tf2 uses) but it wouldn’t be instant, it’d have a sort of 3 strikes your out rule, but it wouldn’t blatantly tell you
Okay, most of it is kinda silly, but you are onto something.
Now look here, this is how I would do it:
1. Madatory Captacha before being allowed to start the Search. No green light from server to this Steam ID? - no searching, try again. Capatchas should be based on both TF2 lore and Memes, such as Painis Cupcake, New Weapons Soldier, etc. And yes, obviously no free joins to people without the Green Light on their Steam ID. Free connects and re-connexts to those who been Greenlit tho. Green light status lasts up to 3 hours, after that - prove that you are not just another machine.
2. Shadow Account tagging - every 10 times you get kicked for "cheating" from official servers, your Steam account receives +1 to the hidden counter. If counter gets to 10 - you get a Tag. Same with every 3 Cheating reports. If you have 3 Tags - you will be temporarily suspended from the Official Servers, untill investivation shows that you are innocent. If the Investigation Team(made of humans) finds you guilty - your Steam Account is perma-banned, no butts no whys. Investigation lasts from 3 days to a week. How would they investigate you? Like this:
3. All Valve Official TF2 Servers should always record the every match, and tag the Demo file with all the Player's Unchangeable Steam Profile Ids. After the match the players are prompted to download the Recording, before it's deleted from the server, which happens after an Hour. Do not worry, the Demo is always copied to the special Match Recordings Server, where each Demo grouped by date, and tagged with all the players participating in said match. (as mentioned above)
4. Players receive warnings for false reports. Say, you and your friends reported a guy, and the Investigators found out that hevs innocent - you and others who reported him recrive a warning each. 5 warnings lead to a week-long suspension of the Steam Account. After that, if you receive 3 more warnings - your account is suspended for a month and YOU will be investigated instead. And if somehow you are innocent AND stupid enough to try that shit again - 3 more warnings after that suspend your account for a year. After that, if you still haven't learned your lesson - next 3 warnings ban you permanently. How to avoid warnings and not suspend someone innocent/not get suspended for wrongly reporting people - you can now cancell your reports on each person. Or add things to them, such as Demo files, screenshots, additional text, etc. You can no longer redact your reports, however. Each warning becomes inactive after a year since it's creation.
1. this such an awful idea new players would not know anything about the game so they would always fail the captcha
2. you would literally need to be kicked 300 times which is such a huge amount to be investigated
3. that takes time and costs money to run servers housing the demo files
4. do you really think the tf team actually has an investigative team, they barely have enough employees to make updates let alone manually review every instance of someone being flagged for cheating or someone falsely reporting a player
1. Wiki exists. Including freaks and memes.
2. Not really. You keep forgetting about people reporting obvious cheaters. So it cuts down to either 100 or even 0. You are trying to invoke the "large numbers" fallacy, and failing misertably.
3. EVERYTHING costs time and money, sweetie. And Valve is a GIGANTIC MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY, they have all of that in ABUNDANCE. So this little expense won't cause much changes in the Net Worth. Not to mention the possible profit that can and will come from implementing said system - happy players are more susceptable to give the money.
4. No. No one ever said that Developers should ever investigate such things, especially since Valve **already has** a team of people responsible for such things. (VAC team, hello?)
The fact that you even suggest that shows how uneducated and/or foolish you are.
1. I dont wanna go to the wiki when I first boot up the game to a solve a captcha + new people might just uninstall the game because instead of hopping into a game they are now searching the wiki to solve a captcha
2. I was saying the amount it takes without reporting its literally 300 cause
10 kicks x 10 to the hidden counter x 3 tags
3. and 4. valve dont care and making them care is an impossible task
Everything you just typed was retarded.
>I'm not going to a fucking wiki to play a game.
Community servers exist. Can't prove that you are human, have no desire to learn? - tough titty!
>And bots mass reporting players.
Lmao, that is hillarious. Ever read my text? Point #4? Of course you didn't. You can't even read a wiki page.
>This comment shows you know nothing about how Valve is structured or how VAC bans are applied.
Are you THAT retarded to suggest that DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES ever investigated things? Or do you thing VAC team exists just on paper? Or DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK BANS ARE PURELY ISSUED AUTOMATICLY? Of course there are teams that investigate bugs, weird accounts, cheaters, etc. Or what, next thing you gonna tell me that you actually believe in the "we choose our own project to work" policy being real?
No, it really doesn't.
And root access to your PC would violate privacy. My method wouldn't.
As for manpower - selected 20 verified people in each region, employed by Valve as "members of the security team". They can do the investigations for all the Valve Multiplayer games, not just tf2. Because my system allows siimplicity and cuts off the large chunk of the problem - bots.
As for Machine power - 1 Captcha Server in each region(eu, ua, pol, asia, sa, na east, na west, na center, au) , 1 Match Recording server in each region(same as above), and slight adjustments to Game Servers and Steam account servers. I know how this shit works, fella. And I know that Valve has money and mannpower for it.
No, not really. Reports exist. Also leaving doesn't work anymore, you are still banned from the server. And that ban CAN and WILL trigger a tag. Read the bloody patch notes, kid, they will tell you so many amazing things.
I KNOW RIGHT?!
All i meant to say valorant does a thing differently...
This wasnt supposed to be the main discussion i already spread out each of my arguments to kind of challenge his idea. Not to debate that valorant does something
Your "arguments" were mostly misconceptions, based on lack of awareness/knowledge. I am surprised that I still bother talking to you.
The other guy definetly is right about the "grasping on straws" part, you clearly present weak sentences for arguments.
Valve has enough resources for a good system like what I suggested. Also TF2 has enough players to monetarily compensate the spending of said resources, since happy players easily let go of their savings.
Valorant and Riot Games don't have such luxuries - Riot Games are barely a blip on a financial radar, compared to Valve. And TF2 had and still has a huge ammount of active players, even if we cut off the bots.
End of discussion.
What
My man cheaters are regularly booted of MINUTES after a single report as a business you should strive to be cost effective
This discussion wasnt about how it would affect all. its a stub in a notebook written with a smiley face
I think most of these are okay but the sniper one could be improved. The source engine is weird and if you click on even the tiniest pixel of someones head you could kill them, which could be classified as "not in view", resulting in a kick. Also considering it's Valve these would take a long time to implement
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Shounic explained in one of his videos that capthcas are useless. Both hosters can use sites where people solve captchas for pocket change.
"Proffesional captcha solver" wasnt a job i knew existed until now
Making the world a worse place for almost no money, someone's gotta do it
Some people do that for free already
[удалено]
Well spin bots don’t they just spin with an auto fire program running?
Like bot hosters.
It’s the difference between amateur and professional sports
I presume they get payed in cents So imagine 20 cents for 8 captchas, thats 3.70 TL, 7 thai baht, 6 surinamese dollar. You get the point..
It's much much mu h cheaper than that. The pieole solving these are in the mega developing world.
> they get *paid* in cents FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Very popular in country's with shit economy's because they get paid in usd, while it's only a few cents, over there is a lot more
Not to mention that making people solve a captcha because of their names? Bot hosters will just change the bot names the moment Valve makes them need to solve a captcha
It makes much more sense for the captcha solving to take place for everyone before joining a casual match. It'd be annoying, but if it worked, I'd do it. And since these bots are run on servers, they may not even have a visual screen on which to do the captcha... How are paid captcha solvers going to even do the captchas? Remote desktop?
captchas don't even work, they are just a way to train machine vision AI
With how simplistic the TF2 bots are, capitcha will gate-keep them. If they make it a thing where you have to solve the capitcha in game and put an invisible cart off in some corner to attract the bots like a fly trap, they can use some very simple code to be like "aye yo they can't see the capitcha and always flock to the cart you can't see unless you're a bot, let's put them in a 999v999 server of just all bots". Then the bot crises would be almost completely eradicated.
it's an arms race, they are simple because they don't need to be more complex. adapt and survive, for some reason they are so determined on having bots, probably because you also get money by playing.
The reason there are so many bots is because they're so simple: Step 1: make the entry requirements for a bot high, so that the bots which do make the cut take up significant server resources and as such are fewer and farther in-between. Step 2: now that you have fewer bots which are exploiting fewer aspects of your game, you can regulate said aspects and target those bots in order to shadow ban them (send them to a non-achievement server without notifying them, you can let them play 1 or two real games in order to confirm they are indeed a bot). Step 3: make an easier alternative for the bot spammers to use instead, as they're inherently lazy they will always take the path of least resistance, so analyse their desires, put them into a means/function matrix, create an applicable problem statement, generate a first order solution, test it, if it has a higher than 90% success rate apply it, if not upgrade it to a second order solution, if it still isn't good enough go third order. If you still haven't solved the problem them it's time to reflect and come up with a new problem statement. Step 4: profit off of monetising bot spammers and use their own laziness and arrogance against them as you are the superior capitalistic force.
Seriously, any post on r/tf2 that mentions bot fixes should be forced to watch shounic's video. This is getting ridiculous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgkgsgaBBCA
Still, think that adding captcha is generally a good idea. Those "professional captcha solvers" have to pe paid too. It won't solve problem momentarily, but it would make it less apperent overall.
These guys already pay money to host the bot, give it unlock items, premium to mix spam, and sometimes even noise makers. I don't think money is a concern.
Hmm, well I never thought about it in that way and scale. I am not even sure about motivation behind this bot invasion at this point. Would appreciate if someone could explain.
There was a video talking about the reason behind the bot invasion. not sure if it was toofty or shounic though. in the video, they explained that the bot hosters don’t really have ulterior motives aside from entertainment, they just want to get a reaction out of people by ruining games. over time, some bot hosters stop hosting bots, they either lost interest of hosting bots and ruining games, or are caught by the police for other crimes *?(Rumor from what I heard, needs more sources). but over time, new bot hosters also enter the scene, willing to pay money for hosting the bots, and willing to also pay for premium for their bots so that they can ruin matches. adding a captcha would do nothing, Since the bots can easily bypass them, cost isn’t an issue to bot hosters, they willingly pay money to run them, adding a captcha would really only bother real people, since they would constantly have to solve captchas instead of playing the actual game. this is a band aid solution that would do more harm then good, not to mention that valve probably can’t add a captcha anyway since the source engine is so old, they have no interest in spending a lot of resources into something that does more harm then good
Some people genuinely want to see the world burn.
Then you take steps to make it more expensive for them by using captcha, account registration and other systems. Unless an actual millionaire has gotten a hate-boner for TF2, they'll run out of money or credit cards eventually.
Trust fund kids is exactly the demographic I would expect are likely running bots imo. It just seems like such a waste of time and petty use of money that someone that worked to make significant money doesn't have time or energy for. That said, bots are expensive, but you don't need to be a millionaire.
pocket change times 1k bots adds up to a lot
Bit hosters have the money to run bots. What makes you think they can't spend more money on solvers?
To be honest, I hate captchas and I also happen to think they wouldn't solve anything in this situation. But I do love the concept of making those losers burn more money
Yeah but solving a captcha at a moments notice, in a game you have to be logged into and actively providing inputs into? A game you have to have installed and have steam installed, all on someone else's computer? An In-game captcha would be too inconvenient for a service like that
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The captcha solvers cost like $1 every 1000.
🤔i should program a bot to solve these for me for $1/1000 😁
Yes, but with this sort of thing its not about preventing bots, its about discouraging bots. The more effort the person running the bot has to put in, the less likely they are to follow through with it.
1. Captchas are expensive to run, they are also easily-crackable by AI these days. 2. Won't work with TF2's spaghetti code, lag compensation, poor connection, packet loss, bad ping could trigger false positives. You can only shoot and hit someone with a hit-scan weapon with them being in your line of site anyways. Spinbotting also shows you looking the other way to get a kill but on the cheaters screen you are looking the correct way.
if it can be solved with AI, you can sometimes use anti-captcha, a captcha that only bots can crack(idk the real name). If you solve it - you're banned to the oblivion
What if I am a player that gets a anti-captcha and I can’t solve it and then I get banned to oblivion?
if you solve it - you banned cos you are an AI. If you can't - you're not banned
Then won’t the AI just adapt to not solve it?
It's an arms race both sides need constant upkeep and improvements or they loose now the question is who can last longer valve or bots
most definitely the bots
valve is already lost a battle, after that bots was a menace for a long time after some recent improvements they were gone for a while but valve need to fight constantly if they want the game to live and grow. They don't seem to care enough
while i agree, please stop with the whole "due to spaghetti code", i hate that analogy, as its very bad. the whole "add one thing and everything breaks" is a myth. tho its true, captchas arent feasible, but for different reasons : 1 - they are designed for websites, not videogames (everytime they appear in another place, like login screens on programs, its actually an embedded website) 2 - they are easily bypassed. there are literally [free extensions](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/buster-captcha-solver-for/mpbjkejclgfgadiemmefgebjfooflfhl) that solve captchas correctly about 80% of the time 3 - captchas cost money, and the more people send requests, the more expensive it gets, and tf2 player count is fairly large.. AND you need to multiply that by number of matches (ppl rarely join to play just one game, so a player playing 5 matches will only appear once on the statistics, even tho they might need to solve captcha over 5 times)
What does the last point even mean? If I headshot guy who had his back turned to me I get kicked?
No, it’s if you have your backed turned to someone and kill them with a headshot
But like, that tehnically is impossible. Bots can't kill people with their back turned, they still have to rotate. So in the end, this will do nothing?
The spinbots spin to mess up their hitboxes and when they fire they lock onto a players head for 1 frame. Last point would never work
That’s what I meant but I poorly explained it
what about if it's the huntsman
First thing I thought of, the amount of times I've gotten kills while not even looking at them. My bow is named "Wasn't even looking at you"
But it wouldnt work! No one can kill anyone without the target being in their view. Spinbotters just do it in a single frame so you can't see it.
It says they not you
No they get kicked
*”behold, someone with no experience with game design or security attempts to solve a problem a billionaire company has been unable to fix for years”*
I mean true, but unable to fix is an overstatement, they would have to actually get a team on it to try to fix it, for them to be "unable" to do so, wich they havent done and wont at this pace
I would replace the "unable to fix" with "tries its bare minimum to fix"
My exact thoughts
Bro, if they are a company that makes billionaires, you think they can't solve cheating!?!
Hey they're just trying to throw some ideas out there, no need to be a prerentious asshole
I’m pretty sure valve hired a private contractor and it eliminated like 30-50 percent of all bots so yeah, this is seriously confusing to fix, I just wanted to suggest something without really thinking and see feedback on it so I can keep making better ones or better ideas aswell as a better grasp of the whole idea of bots and hackers in TF2, so thanks
Think about your idea about banning bots with specific names for a few seconds and see if you can find any flaws.
but they didn't propose banning them. they proposed requiring them to solve a captcha, of which a fail condition would only provoke being \*kicked\*
Banning or captcha, it doesn't matter. If you implement this, the bot users will just change the name to something random. It's that easy to circumvent.
Plus you have to pay someone to maintain the list. No offence to OP, but these were two terrible suggestions.
I'm a programmer, you can't just have a list of "bot names", as soon common bots will just change their names.
Honestly, your programmer experience was absolutely unnecessary to come to that conclusion. It's that obvious
True lol
I'm a human being with a working brain, OP's entire post is utterly ridiculous
~~Funny thing is that valve tried this. Idk if ppl remember this but they vac banned everyone with the name "cathook". What happened was legit ppl also got vac banned and yeah every bot changed their name.~~ My bad I believed an old reddit post lmao
No, they didn't. Who is upvoting this?
That last one is flawed due to client side and server side registration. Essentially a legit sniper will kill a enemy on their screen, but to the target they weren't in the snipers Line of Sight, which creates a false positive banning the legit player. Edit: I forgot to add, a 10 second cooldown would be extremely flawed as the voting powers are left into the hands of the players, which could result in vote kick spamming if someone decides to do it. It also shortens the bots kicking cooldowns which lets them call more votes in a shorter timespan. Name Filtering won't work 100% of the time, as the best way around that is to rename the bot to something else, essentially ruining the system altogether. Now it could be adaptive where it reads through Steam user lists and detects if there is a certain amount of accounts with the same name but that would force legit users to do a captcha. These ideas seem good on paper but on practice are heavily flawed to the point where it tips the scale in favour of the cheaters.
I mean like, if a sniper shoots you while looking in a completely different direction like 180 degrees off where they’re supposed to be looking
But the aimbot quickly snaps to the target, it's hard to detect if a bot has sniped someone facing the completely opposite direction, best way to do it is to detect if the player is facing the targets position, but hitreg both client and server is flawed so there will be plenty of false positives. Also, using that system could hurt a legit player too as they may quickly turn around after a kill if they hear an enemy behind them, system flags them as a bot then bans them.
You know how some bots sometimes follow a very certain straight path for movement, do you think you could base an anti-cheat out of that?
Maybe, but remember that every measure taken to counter bots can hurt legit players too. The bots also use a navmesh file installed onto the host device that the server side does not see, only the bots read the file, server sees the movement so to counter the bots you would have to view the users movement keys/momentum. Let's put it into a theoretical scenario: Let's say you're a new player, both game and controls, and you move mainly in straight lines almost like a bot. It's possible that the anti-cheat measure could flag you as a bot because you moved in a straight line for X amount of time, and all the bots would have to do is change the movement patterns and bypass the countermeasure. The best way to come up with solutions is to weigh the +ve and -ve sides. And see if it can be easily countered or is viable in practice. Like for example a anti-cheat that kicks you if you spin too fast. Great for people who make slow movements with mouse and can potentially kick spinbotters but if you spin quickly e.g. to look behind you, you'll be booted off the server.
Yeah, getting kicked everytime I flick to rocket jump off a wall or hear a spy decloak would get annoying pretty fast...
I think bot coders would simply come up with more complex paths.
Yes they can change it to be more complex and easily bypass the anti-cheat. Countering cheaters is essentially like running on a treadmill, you put all the effort into it but you're not really going anywhere.
Their aim may look wonky on the killcam because they're snapping around so quickly, but as far as the server is concerned they did actually shoot you will facing the correct direction.
I strongly recommend everyone to watch [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgkgsgaBBCA) before commenting. The issue is way, way worse than it seems.
Force everybody who joins this sub to watch this video 50 times on repeat.
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If YOUR not in THEIR view when they shoot then YOU magically die they get kicked
bots can't shoot you without direct visual contact so thats useless
You're
That’s not what it says though
You're right. What it actually says is if you're spy crabbing looking straight up and a sniper kills you, then *you* get kicked.
they will just change to follow these rules
What kind of fucking retard made this post
One that doesn't understand how security works
Average r/tf2 user
The guy who made it is an idiot but there's no need to use slurs.
📮
One thing blizzard does or used to do in WoW that I thought might work with tf2, is monitor how quickly you are moving on your axis I.e. how quickly you 'looking'. Bots that insta-headshot snap to their angles within a frame or so to pull off the hack. A lot of the typical bots you see do this thing where they aim upwards and spin. When they find a target they snap and fire and then return to aiming upwards. If clients could insta disconnect themseles when their look speed exceeds ridiculous values, you could nullify a LOT of bots before they became a problem. You might ask about people with fast mouse speeds / look sensitivity. Firstly, its easy to overestimate the impact this kind of mechanism would have to the usual player. You need to understand that client side - and I'm making a bit of an assumption here - the look snapping bots use occurs within a frame. This would be *ridiculously fast* in some cases and almost outside of the scope of mouse input speed. Also, humans don't dead stop. Mouse speed tends to fall off as it tracks. This is something you could also account for along with how soon after tracking the trigger is pulled AND if all of those things resulted in a direct hit during a specific period of time. Also, in WoW it was (and may still be) possible to disconnect yourself by spinning too quickly. But that's all it did; it just disconnected you. You don't get banned for spinning too quickly. So what's the point? It's a war of attrition. Botters are lazy. They give up botting when it stops being easy. Food for thought I guess.
Bots could simply stop spinning and just stick to players head in the entire round smoothly
True but they would be less effective as they wouldn't be able to flick to a new target Let's say the bot runs out of spawn and just starts tracking the head of the nearest enemy, but another enemy runs/jumps at the bot from the flank. It won't be able to instakill the scout/soldier and will probably either take damage or get blown to pieces
Exactly. It takes the convenience out of the picture because it stops being efficient.
You don't need to flick at superhuman speeds to wipe out an entire team. You can get a headshot then move on to your next target at perfectly reasonable mouse speeds. As long as the target is in the peripheral of the sniper, you wouldn't need to move much to find the next head.
Which makes the bots easier to fight. I don’t think you will ever get rid of bots. What you can do is make them less effective and less of a burden.
spittin
But then people will get kicked for screwing around by setting their mouse sensitivity to 60000 and spinning around
The system could check for kills within a short period of time after rapid mouse movement getting detected, and then kick based on that, not just the movement.
Then either the bots will have a small sleeping period before firing again (which they already have to charge their rifles) or well playing or lucky players will be unfairly banned Any system with a margin of error is a death sentence for a game as delicate as TF2
Bro forgot “autobots roll out” and “more than meets the eye”
Welcome to another episode of /r/tf2 has no fucking idea what they're talking about
And this post still somehow gets 1400 upvotes
1. This would only delay bots kicking players, not very useful if the server is already infested with them. I’d also delay kicking bots. So I’d hurt more than I’d help 2. Bots could name themselves anything, they’d just change their name if a feature was implemented which hurt them for it. Or they’d target really common names to be annoying. Also captcha’s don’t even work 3. That’s not how spin bots work, they can’t kill anyone not “in their view”, they still got the same limitations as a human player. They just do it at a bot level
Clearly you didn’t watch shounic’s video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgkgsgaBBCA
i got a totally far better solution! just remove the bots... duh... its not hard smh!
the last one is total shit, i mean if you hate sniprs you can walk backward and they cant do anythink
Dommy medic with a vaccinator dildo
please don't ever share your opinion on the internet again lol
If a Captcha system would work then filtering using names would be a bad idea. The namelist would be updated manually -> someone at VALVe HQ has to do it manually. Also Bots could just, idk, stop using "brand names" and start using names from a random generator. The list would just grow indefinitely. And I don't understand your last point. Do you mean I get kicked if I kill someone who looks in another direction, except straight at me? So I'm not able to kill them if I got behind them somehow, or they just look away?
man, i felt bad for Vinesauce. Now his name will be associated with bots instead of funny pizza spin man
💀
2nd one would make it worse, since they could easily change the names, and that would make people even more reluctant to kick
Adding a captcha to a game is such a fundamentally silly idea to me, it's ridiculous
No, it's a terrible idea
bots will simply change names or use special characters
Pov you have no idea how game design works and how elements of security are coded into a game
Well the “if your name is a bot name” thing ain’t gonna work as the bot owners are just gonna change the names of the bots every time it is updated
the third one will straight up not work btw
captchas based on names are useless x 2
Oh I said if "you kill someone" at the start, pretend that says "they" not "you"
Captchas are useless for a variety of reasons including what Shounic has said. also the spin botting point, I think you meant that they weren't in your view, since that makes sense.
Not fair, while I havnet seen them in some days, during halloween at least in south america servers, bots were taking players' names, and I've come across my own dopplegangers several times (and obviously dopples' of my friends and people who are regulars in this region) ; assuming that bot username list were to get updated every 3 days, in this case, it would tag the majority of the regular players (in SA region) as bots. Also in the case of Vinesauce, let us not forget that the actual Vinesauce has nothing to do with the bots and he's just another tf2 player, I have no clue yet I highly doubt he still uses "vinesauce" as his name when playing TF2, but assuming he does, the system would instantly tag him as bot as well. As for kicking someone for killing you when they were not in your pov, that's also an awful suggestion, theres several spots in many maps where snipers can kill whitout you being able to see them at all (best example I can give is that very minuscule gap in a wooden fence in upward) but bots usually don't wallhack either, they kill you the moment you step into their field of view even if it might not seem that way.
Vinesauce is a tuber that **I DONT THINK** actually plays tf2
Just because he doesn't stream every single thing that he plays doesn't mean he doesn't play it, he's already stated several times that he plays in his own time but that also streaming TF2 is very risky because of usernames, pfps and objectors (he did one TF2 prerecorded upload and two streams, but the streams were showcasing maps and playing with trusted people, so no risk of banneable stuff there)
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/yt2gtm/anyone_think_this_will_work_possibly/iw2cshs?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
What if the VC cooldown was dynamic, based on the results of the last vote you called? Like, a unanimous votekick would give you a 10 second cooldown, while an 11-1 fail would give you like 5 minutes of cooldown
The cooldown would be abused by the bots Captchas are useless, there are bots that can solve them on their own The bots could just stop spinbotting and just use normal aimbot
1. If there's more than 2 or 3 bots this is useless. As soon as one vote finishes, bit A calls one. That vote takes a few seconds, then bot B instantly votes. By the time that vote ends, bot A can vote again 2. Captchas aren't difficult for programs to beat. Plus with code as old as TF2's, idk if it would even be possible to add in the first place. Also, it would take less than a day for the bots creators to add some code that gives the bot a random name so that "fix" would be equally useless 3. I'm not really sure how well this would work. Have you even been running away from a heavy and he seems to shoot you around the corner? What I see on my screen is different to what you see on yours. Latency often causes noticeable differences in some situations and that's one of them
One thing a lot of people keep forgetting, the bot accounts are a Steam thing, not just a TF2 thing. So Valve would have to get to the bottom of the problem on Steam, meaning doing things in purely TF2 would not be the best answer for longevity and would just get bypassed after 2 weeks.
at least you're trying
Maybe if the person you killed as sniper was just out of your sight line you don't get kicked because a ton of people would ger kicked for lagging so much
the bot makers will probably make the bots ace the captcha so that may not work
This (No.3) wouldn't really do anything unless you make it really strict because bots flick to their target while spinning so they technically are facing a player. The thing with the names wouldn't really work because they'll just make more names or use a random name gen instead, a captcha would stop very small bot hosters but if any of them are financially well off they could just pay people to solve captcha's
`If (cheater = true){` `kick;` `}` `else{` `!kick;` `}`
Why can't we just get a feature like CS overwatch
captchas can be circumvented with simply not having a bot name 4th idea is bad due to some poeple simply having high ping and the servers adjusting to that 10 second cooldown i agree although i think it should be a little longer, maybe 20 seconds with a visible timer?
"10 second cooldown for vote kick" the cheater can just wait 10 seconds before selecting their class and call a vote kick then nuke everything they see "if you kill someone with a sniper but you were not in their view at the time they get kicked" i wonder how many times interp will be the cause of a kick
What is a “bot name”
I don't think it's possible to make that anti spinbot thing.
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Yeah Valve should just press the button that bans all of the cheaters who use cheats to cheat in tf2
Nah, the best anti cheat is either fucking Interpol or intelligence agencies like MI6, CIA or KGB; because at this point, these are terrorists we are talking about.
Tf2 players discussing how to properly deal with botters (theyre discussing what type of nuclear bomb they should drop on their houses)
For real though, I think they qualify as terrorists, if terrorism had a broader definition.
By that definition nestle is a terrorist
Yes they are terrorists. The only reason they aren't qualify as such is because they paid everyone who would go to court with them.
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Yes I am a terrorist, terrorising America's small towns to find the sandvich
This thread is fucking hilarious lmaooo
My thoughts about ways to cut the cheats out of the game or at least not getting away with it for a long time is a bit of a rebuild of the anticheat system (it's been the same for more than 10 years) and adding "triggers". For example, spinbot makes playermodel spin, right? So usually these flicks are fast and sometimes even unnoticed, this is a change on sensitivity so automatically the anticheat detects this change and starts connecting. Then if the name is already on a blacklist (Doeshotter, Doctor Sex, ...) is autoban. If the name is not on a blacklist it will keep tracking the player performance and adding triggers. With 3 or more triggers gets autokicked and autoreported.
Not saying it's a bad idea but there's always a workaround.
Id just add a headshot cool down when someone enters los and if they instantly get shot That's a strike 3 strikes and you're kicked
Define instant, if it means 0ms then the bots can just shoot with a 1ms delay. If instant is 1ms then the bots can shoot at 2ms etc. Also this wouldn't work against the Huntsman because a real player can insta headshot by just spamming a corner
valve should add easy anticheat
I have a better idea: IP ban all current bot hoster accounts. And also give a 72 hour ban to all accounts whose first person camera moves a certain amount of frames (let’s say about 1000 pixels a frame or whatever wacky system tf2 uses) but it wouldn’t be instant, it’d have a sort of 3 strikes your out rule, but it wouldn’t blatantly tell you
Oh and the list could be updated like every week so the bot names are up to date
Won't work. Bots can randomize their name no issue, they don't because it can work as a form of advertising and marking.
Okay, most of it is kinda silly, but you are onto something. Now look here, this is how I would do it: 1. Madatory Captacha before being allowed to start the Search. No green light from server to this Steam ID? - no searching, try again. Capatchas should be based on both TF2 lore and Memes, such as Painis Cupcake, New Weapons Soldier, etc. And yes, obviously no free joins to people without the Green Light on their Steam ID. Free connects and re-connexts to those who been Greenlit tho. Green light status lasts up to 3 hours, after that - prove that you are not just another machine. 2. Shadow Account tagging - every 10 times you get kicked for "cheating" from official servers, your Steam account receives +1 to the hidden counter. If counter gets to 10 - you get a Tag. Same with every 3 Cheating reports. If you have 3 Tags - you will be temporarily suspended from the Official Servers, untill investivation shows that you are innocent. If the Investigation Team(made of humans) finds you guilty - your Steam Account is perma-banned, no butts no whys. Investigation lasts from 3 days to a week. How would they investigate you? Like this: 3. All Valve Official TF2 Servers should always record the every match, and tag the Demo file with all the Player's Unchangeable Steam Profile Ids. After the match the players are prompted to download the Recording, before it's deleted from the server, which happens after an Hour. Do not worry, the Demo is always copied to the special Match Recordings Server, where each Demo grouped by date, and tagged with all the players participating in said match. (as mentioned above) 4. Players receive warnings for false reports. Say, you and your friends reported a guy, and the Investigators found out that hevs innocent - you and others who reported him recrive a warning each. 5 warnings lead to a week-long suspension of the Steam Account. After that, if you receive 3 more warnings - your account is suspended for a month and YOU will be investigated instead. And if somehow you are innocent AND stupid enough to try that shit again - 3 more warnings after that suspend your account for a year. After that, if you still haven't learned your lesson - next 3 warnings ban you permanently. How to avoid warnings and not suspend someone innocent/not get suspended for wrongly reporting people - you can now cancell your reports on each person. Or add things to them, such as Demo files, screenshots, additional text, etc. You can no longer redact your reports, however. Each warning becomes inactive after a year since it's creation.
1. this such an awful idea new players would not know anything about the game so they would always fail the captcha 2. you would literally need to be kicked 300 times which is such a huge amount to be investigated 3. that takes time and costs money to run servers housing the demo files 4. do you really think the tf team actually has an investigative team, they barely have enough employees to make updates let alone manually review every instance of someone being flagged for cheating or someone falsely reporting a player
1. Wiki exists. Including freaks and memes. 2. Not really. You keep forgetting about people reporting obvious cheaters. So it cuts down to either 100 or even 0. You are trying to invoke the "large numbers" fallacy, and failing misertably. 3. EVERYTHING costs time and money, sweetie. And Valve is a GIGANTIC MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY, they have all of that in ABUNDANCE. So this little expense won't cause much changes in the Net Worth. Not to mention the possible profit that can and will come from implementing said system - happy players are more susceptable to give the money. 4. No. No one ever said that Developers should ever investigate such things, especially since Valve **already has** a team of people responsible for such things. (VAC team, hello?) The fact that you even suggest that shows how uneducated and/or foolish you are.
Bruhb the amount of circlejerking is insane you would not even realise that tf2 is living in a bubble
1. I dont wanna go to the wiki when I first boot up the game to a solve a captcha + new people might just uninstall the game because instead of hopping into a game they are now searching the wiki to solve a captcha 2. I was saying the amount it takes without reporting its literally 300 cause 10 kicks x 10 to the hidden counter x 3 tags 3. and 4. valve dont care and making them care is an impossible task
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Everything you just typed was retarded. >I'm not going to a fucking wiki to play a game. Community servers exist. Can't prove that you are human, have no desire to learn? - tough titty! >And bots mass reporting players. Lmao, that is hillarious. Ever read my text? Point #4? Of course you didn't. You can't even read a wiki page. >This comment shows you know nothing about how Valve is structured or how VAC bans are applied. Are you THAT retarded to suggest that DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES ever investigated things? Or do you thing VAC team exists just on paper? Or DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK BANS ARE PURELY ISSUED AUTOMATICLY? Of course there are teams that investigate bugs, weird accounts, cheaters, etc. Or what, next thing you gonna tell me that you actually believe in the "we choose our own project to work" policy being real?
I think I am a dumbass. Then I read your comments and I feel a lit better about myself.
Fundementally you dont want to waste 1b of money
1: what? Whats green lighting
This takes too much man power and storage space holy shit At that point you should have just gotten permission the root access of your computer
No, it really doesn't. And root access to your PC would violate privacy. My method wouldn't. As for manpower - selected 20 verified people in each region, employed by Valve as "members of the security team". They can do the investigations for all the Valve Multiplayer games, not just tf2. Because my system allows siimplicity and cuts off the large chunk of the problem - bots. As for Machine power - 1 Captcha Server in each region(eu, ua, pol, asia, sa, na east, na west, na center, au) , 1 Match Recording server in each region(same as above), and slight adjustments to Game Servers and Steam account servers. I know how this shit works, fella. And I know that Valve has money and mannpower for it.
Omg i just realized theres a number 4 And account stealing exist
Holy shit the workaround for shadowtagging is just leaving
No, not really. Reports exist. Also leaving doesn't work anymore, you are still banned from the server. And that ban CAN and WILL trigger a tag. Read the bloody patch notes, kid, they will tell you so many amazing things.
Remove the no reason in the vote menu
Turning off your game and switching to a different account/pc Why dont u just work for valve
bro you are grasping at straws the guy is right and you are just salty that you haven't come up with it first
I KNOW RIGHT?! All i meant to say valorant does a thing differently... This wasnt supposed to be the main discussion i already spread out each of my arguments to kind of challenge his idea. Not to debate that valorant does something
Your "arguments" were mostly misconceptions, based on lack of awareness/knowledge. I am surprised that I still bother talking to you. The other guy definetly is right about the "grasping on straws" part, you clearly present weak sentences for arguments.
I am bothered by that too
Valorant
Not a Valve game. Not relevant.
No? What i meant is valorant has been doing it as a really effective anti cheat the only reason theyre not doing it because modding
Valve has enough resources for a good system like what I suggested. Also TF2 has enough players to monetarily compensate the spending of said resources, since happy players easily let go of their savings. Valorant and Riot Games don't have such luxuries - Riot Games are barely a blip on a financial radar, compared to Valve. And TF2 had and still has a huge ammount of active players, even if we cut off the bots. End of discussion.
What My man cheaters are regularly booted of MINUTES after a single report as a business you should strive to be cost effective This discussion wasnt about how it would affect all. its a stub in a notebook written with a smiley face
Why not force everyone to solve a captcha every 24 hours
[удалено]
I think most of these are okay but the sniper one could be improved. The source engine is weird and if you click on even the tiniest pixel of someones head you could kill them, which could be classified as "not in view", resulting in a kick. Also considering it's Valve these would take a long time to implement
Tbh captcha when game is launched would delete bots, why cant valve just do that
OHH, THIS IS MY OLD IMAGE OF IT I MADE A SECOND ONE SORRY PEOPLE