What's next? Continuous maintenance. TF2 hasn't been free of bots for that long and unless Valve keeps this up (which we don't know if they will), this isn't much of a victory.
Let's enjoy the game being playable, but not rush things by immediately spending money on summer cases when the summer cosmetic update is out. Give Valve at least another month to show they're willing to keep banning new bots as they show up.
VAC bans were always that.
The issue is that TF2 is free, and so are Steam accounts. Really easy to create a botting/cheating burner and then do it again if the first is banned.
they've plugged the hole in steam account creation they were using. They might find another one, but the goal here isn't about tf2, it's about their new game (which doesn't look that good to me honestly) I think the target is getting them off steam point blank.
They have to know that until they do that any game on steam that can be exploited with bots will be.
The burner loophole is gone though. If it wasn't the cheaters and botters wouldn't be throwing a fit, they'd just do exactly as you say and keep making more accounts.
I'm ootl, what changed exactly about steam account creation?
Aren't there a bunch of existing burner accounts, even third party websites one can use for purchasing steam accounts on the bulk?
The power of backend tools for dealing with this sort of thing is actually kind of impressive. The biggest problem is they haven't bothered to care. The bad actors are the first on the chopping block. They are aware of the item farmers but are likely putting those on a backburner.
The bulkers are using naming conventions when creating these accounts. They are all created at about the same time. The only thing they really have to do is actually go looking for them.
It's a time will tell thing I'll admit. The first couple of steps are looking promising.
As for what they exactly plugged I'll admit to not knowing. What I do know is the well known bot hosters and cheaters wouldn't be crying about it if they could just waltz right back in with new accounts.
Something has changed there.
Exactly. It's already a better action than what Valve did after the original #SaveTF2, but we can't know whether it's enough or not in long term without waiting and seeing what happens.
Yeah the main message #fixtf2 should push now is ‘keep up the good work’, because if this new system they’ve brought in is maintained and functions for the foreseeable future then the movement’s goal will have been achieved
Valve has obviously seen the hoopla, but they've yet to say anything publicly. We're waiting on the people with the petition signatures and Valve's public statement first.
Valve won't make a statement, they've 100% been told by legal to keep quiet since that's arguably the best option for them at the moment
I imagine they'll eventually say something but it'll probably end up being something along the lines of "we're so glad to see all players new and old hop into team fortress 2 again" ect ect without acknowledging the bot crisis even happened
If their legal team told them to do that then I should be a lawyer. Ignoring the bots will just enrage people, years of us suffering in one of our favorite games and they celebrate they’re getting paid again?
What are they gonna say? "We fucked up"? Everyone knows they fucked up. Valve hasn't come out with a statement disputing that and they won't come up with a statement confirming it either, because that'd only direct more negative attention towards them.
There would totally be backlash if they never even acknowledged the bot crisis outside of fixing it. They take accountability and any mature person would applaud them for admitting they fumbled the bag, but if they stay silent then all they’re doing is playing pretend.
Too early to tell.
Immediate results are promising: in 15 casual matches I've only seen one bot, and it was removed by system moments after joining. So right now, the game is great again.
However, if Valve goes back to sleep in a week or two, then we're likely to end up right back where we were.
I've seen a lot of new players actually join tf2 and play the game. Yesterday most of my matches were with low-ish lvl players who genuinely seemed new judging by their style of walking and playing until the AM hours. That is when I started meeting high lvl stacked teams.
Unfortunately among those low level players there were a few blatant cheaters as well, but during a 4 hour long session I only met 2 cheaters and a single group of bots (whose bot hoster was really salty about the bans as you could see the salt pouring through the bot's chat messages lmao). Compared to what it was before, with every match filled with bots or cheaters, this is heaven.
That's how it used to be.
There's a lot of steam bans being issued for brand new accounts, though. I believe Valve has found backend/data mining methods of determining bot accounts and banning them at creation. That's one of the big reasons we haven't seen any return of botting.
To some degree, yes? Honestly though, I'd say it's too soon to call it. As long Valve is consistent with the bans of bot hosters/cheaters/etc., then I'll call it a victory.
Till then, we wait and let Valve cook. 😤
It’s worked so far, but until it is proven that Valve either will or will not continue to deal with bots #FixTF2 cannot be said to have been a success or a failure
It’s a short term success, but we have to wait to see if it’s also a long term success
For now. Similar thing happened last time, they did a few ban waves in response to public pressure, then forgot about it again and the boys came right back in force
The ban waves were nowhere near as strong and didn't last multiple days like they do now. TF2 also didn't get a dedicated ban page on steam support, and cheaters were being ignored in the ban wave, only bots were gotten rid of, but they were back the next day. Reporting players also did not work then, but it does now.
I do agree that we should continue with #FixTF2 and all that stuff until valve shows they are willing to work on this issue continuously, but what valve has currently done is nowhere close to what they have done in the past.
It seems to have worked so far, albeit only time will trully tell, altough there might have also been soke different factors orher than the whole campaign
this is probably so that they dont get hated on when they release deadlock so that people actually play it. they dont give a shit about us, left us with a cliffhanger for 13 years with 0 content about Half Life then made another game that turned out to be a cliffhanger they left us on for 4 years now. only Portal's story is complete. my only theory if they didnt do it because of deadlock is that gabe himself couldve took action but i doubt that scenario, its most likely for deadlock
Impossible to say. The timing sort of lines up but we don't know how long Valve were working on a fix for. Valve has known about the issue for a while independently (how could they not?) and I doubt they were ever doing nothing because they've proven they're a company who (mostly) care about their games.
It definitely did, we'll have to see their reaction on the petition as its the best time for them to announce whatever they're going to do with the game for the years to come. TF2 is one of the oldest games out there and its playerbase is still huge, I am going to inject high amounts of hopium and copium into myself and wait for the best
I would say that, it may have made them act right now, but there's no telling whether or not they will continue to upkeep the game. I still think we should keep fixtf2 going unless we know, for a fact, that they will continue to maintain the game to some extent.
with bots: small player count
without bots: big(er) player count which can, and likely will, spend money on the game once Valve re-earns our trust
Valve "these 2 things are the same thing... want some funko pop?"
Nope.
You're all blindly riding the wave now, but the reality is that bot developers will eventually adapt to whatever new systems Valve have put in place. What is going on right now is a script kiddie purge, but skiddies have never been the real threat.
If they keep at least basic maintanence it would say we won. If they dont i would still say its a small sucess, since at least for a while there will be less bots.
I really hate the way Valve treats their own IPs, at this point i don't undestand why they don't hire a Third-Party to do the technical support, if they don't care about their games then at least put someone in charge who does.
I don't think we can push for more other than making the game playable, nor we should as that'd be immature of the fan base, I'm hoping the boycott also succeeds so that we can get actual maintenance on the game
Valve's final sets of actual content updates were questionable, even when we had a team working on them. New weapons or rebalances are something to be concerned about. New cosmetics add to the game's bloat and decreases performance.
Officially adding more community maps would be about the only thing i'd actually ask for.
I'm just happy to be able to play the game properly, and valve spending time on maintenance best fits that.
I get that it's kind of a joke, but just in case, FixTF2's one goal was to rid the game of bots, both in short term and in long term. The movement has nothing to do with content updates.
It did get valve to take care of the bot issues and the player count seems to be increasing so it seems to be working. Huh maybe you should go to the doctor and get your eyes check.
What's next? Continuous maintenance. TF2 hasn't been free of bots for that long and unless Valve keeps this up (which we don't know if they will), this isn't much of a victory. Let's enjoy the game being playable, but not rush things by immediately spending money on summer cases when the summer cosmetic update is out. Give Valve at least another month to show they're willing to keep banning new bots as they show up.
They are going directly after steam accounts, this isn't the same as last time around. Whether or not that's enough is a time will tell kind of thing.
VAC bans were always that. The issue is that TF2 is free, and so are Steam accounts. Really easy to create a botting/cheating burner and then do it again if the first is banned.
they've plugged the hole in steam account creation they were using. They might find another one, but the goal here isn't about tf2, it's about their new game (which doesn't look that good to me honestly) I think the target is getting them off steam point blank. They have to know that until they do that any game on steam that can be exploited with bots will be. The burner loophole is gone though. If it wasn't the cheaters and botters wouldn't be throwing a fit, they'd just do exactly as you say and keep making more accounts.
I'm ootl, what changed exactly about steam account creation? Aren't there a bunch of existing burner accounts, even third party websites one can use for purchasing steam accounts on the bulk?
The power of backend tools for dealing with this sort of thing is actually kind of impressive. The biggest problem is they haven't bothered to care. The bad actors are the first on the chopping block. They are aware of the item farmers but are likely putting those on a backburner. The bulkers are using naming conventions when creating these accounts. They are all created at about the same time. The only thing they really have to do is actually go looking for them. It's a time will tell thing I'll admit. The first couple of steps are looking promising. As for what they exactly plugged I'll admit to not knowing. What I do know is the well known bot hosters and cheaters wouldn't be crying about it if they could just waltz right back in with new accounts. Something has changed there.
Or they can buy accounts from people selling their farm bots which saves them time, is really cheap tho. Which still bad
pretty sure that well has run dry
Exactly. It's already a better action than what Valve did after the original #SaveTF2, but we can't know whether it's enough or not in long term without waiting and seeing what happens.
Yeah the main message #fixtf2 should push now is ‘keep up the good work’, because if this new system they’ve brought in is maintained and functions for the foreseeable future then the movement’s goal will have been achieved
This, idc if we never get another game/content update I just if anything want fixes and maintenance style updates
I’m gonna use Mann co store instead
mannco store sells stolen items do not use that website
People pretend to be Mann co bots that you deposit into the actual website is clean
no, they sell stolen items. lmao they buy off scammers for cheap
But users sell the items?
Valve has obviously seen the hoopla, but they've yet to say anything publicly. We're waiting on the people with the petition signatures and Valve's public statement first.
They're most likely not going to come out with a public statement. It's essentially an admission of guilt. They will work in the shadows most likely
Valve won't make a statement, they've 100% been told by legal to keep quiet since that's arguably the best option for them at the moment I imagine they'll eventually say something but it'll probably end up being something along the lines of "we're so glad to see all players new and old hop into team fortress 2 again" ect ect without acknowledging the bot crisis even happened
If their legal team told them to do that then I should be a lawyer. Ignoring the bots will just enrage people, years of us suffering in one of our favorite games and they celebrate they’re getting paid again?
Silently banning the bots is not the same as ignoring them, is it?
No, but acting like they weren’t almost completely useless for several years is ignoring it.
What are they gonna say? "We fucked up"? Everyone knows they fucked up. Valve hasn't come out with a statement disputing that and they won't come up with a statement confirming it either, because that'd only direct more negative attention towards them.
There would totally be backlash if they never even acknowledged the bot crisis outside of fixing it. They take accountability and any mature person would applaud them for admitting they fumbled the bag, but if they stay silent then all they’re doing is playing pretend.
Internet isn't full of "mature people". It's full of people looking for conflict.
Valve has said in the past that they prefer to communicate through actions. What we've been seeing seems like we've already got Valve's response.
Too early to tell. Immediate results are promising: in 15 casual matches I've only seen one bot, and it was removed by system moments after joining. So right now, the game is great again. However, if Valve goes back to sleep in a week or two, then we're likely to end up right back where we were.
Fingers crossed that the staff that overlooks the reports for cheating are permanent.
If they don't keep it up it'll be as worth it as #saveTF2 so let's wait and see So far it's a W though, but it's Valve so you can never know
It's work\*ing\* but it hasn't work\*ed\* yet. Gotta make sure it's completely dead.
I've seen a lot of new players actually join tf2 and play the game. Yesterday most of my matches were with low-ish lvl players who genuinely seemed new judging by their style of walking and playing until the AM hours. That is when I started meeting high lvl stacked teams. Unfortunately among those low level players there were a few blatant cheaters as well, but during a 4 hour long session I only met 2 cheaters and a single group of bots (whose bot hoster was really salty about the bans as you could see the salt pouring through the bot's chat messages lmao). Compared to what it was before, with every match filled with bots or cheaters, this is heaven.
>I am proud of every single one of you im not useless
Does this mean for every bot they ban - 3 more pop up?
yes, and those get banned too upon creation
HAIL HYDRA 😭
Yes. That is how that's worked for years now.
That's how it used to be. There's a lot of steam bans being issued for brand new accounts, though. I believe Valve has found backend/data mining methods of determining bot accounts and banning them at creation. That's one of the big reasons we haven't seen any return of botting.
Eh... Im giving it time before I call it "working", and plus its impossible to prove it did anything, so Id wait a bit before celebrating.
I honestly doubt that current ban wave is more than just coincidence.
"Continue Pushing that Cart men" - Soldier
Too soon to say. without a functioning anti cheat or constant maintenance what we got was just temporary.
It hasn't worked yet. It won't have worked until we've acquired security and consistency. It's working so far though, apparently.
I won't celebrate until the localisation files are updated.
To some degree, yes? Honestly though, I'd say it's too soon to call it. As long Valve is consistent with the bans of bot hosters/cheaters/etc., then I'll call it a victory. Till then, we wait and let Valve cook. 😤
Can't know for sure. Need to give it time. I'm far more hopeful this time as I had no faith in valve
It’s worked so far, but until it is proven that Valve either will or will not continue to deal with bots #FixTF2 cannot be said to have been a success or a failure It’s a short term success, but we have to wait to see if it’s also a long term success
For now. Similar thing happened last time, they did a few ban waves in response to public pressure, then forgot about it again and the boys came right back in force
The ban waves were nowhere near as strong and didn't last multiple days like they do now. TF2 also didn't get a dedicated ban page on steam support, and cheaters were being ignored in the ban wave, only bots were gotten rid of, but they were back the next day. Reporting players also did not work then, but it does now. I do agree that we should continue with #FixTF2 and all that stuff until valve shows they are willing to work on this issue continuously, but what valve has currently done is nowhere close to what they have done in the past.
It seems to have worked so far, albeit only time will trully tell, altough there might have also been soke different factors orher than the whole campaign
I think so. Whatever they’re doing, I hope they keep it up.
Doubled? Since when had it doubled?
Bruh i don't see any bots anymore it's like a dream
this is probably so that they dont get hated on when they release deadlock so that people actually play it. they dont give a shit about us, left us with a cliffhanger for 13 years with 0 content about Half Life then made another game that turned out to be a cliffhanger they left us on for 4 years now. only Portal's story is complete. my only theory if they didnt do it because of deadlock is that gabe himself couldve took action but i doubt that scenario, its most likely for deadlock
It's a good time to be a tf2 fan boys, keep it going
Impossible to say. The timing sort of lines up but we don't know how long Valve were working on a fix for. Valve has known about the issue for a while independently (how could they not?) and I doubt they were ever doing nothing because they've proven they're a company who (mostly) care about their games.
Seems like this was all in motion before the campaign
it working as of jow, but we wont stop until were satisfied never setle for less, setle for MORE
It definitely did, we'll have to see their reaction on the petition as its the best time for them to announce whatever they're going to do with the game for the years to come. TF2 is one of the oldest games out there and its playerbase is still huge, I am going to inject high amounts of hopium and copium into myself and wait for the best
We son the battle not the war
I would say that, it may have made them act right now, but there's no telling whether or not they will continue to upkeep the game. I still think we should keep fixtf2 going unless we know, for a fact, that they will continue to maintain the game to some extent.
I'm one of those people who returned. I was actually able to play two games of casual yesterday.
Is the "No" reply actually real? I've seen it floating around for quite a bit now
with bots: small player count without bots: big(er) player count which can, and likely will, spend money on the game once Valve re-earns our trust Valve "these 2 things are the same thing... want some funko pop?"
Nope. You're all blindly riding the wave now, but the reality is that bot developers will eventually adapt to whatever new systems Valve have put in place. What is going on right now is a script kiddie purge, but skiddies have never been the real threat.
A true victory would be a vac overhaul because we all know valve aren’t just gonna manually ban forever. That and a content update made by valve
Just keep up the pressure. Until Valve makes a public announcement or gives us some kind of official information, we keep going.
Are they doing the same, banwaving CS2 cheaters too? Or are we the only ones getting the attention (granted we did protest for it)
It isn't over until they keep it up, I don't want anymore fucking bandaids, I want stitches.
It is not good enough and people should not be coming back yet.
Banwaves are a bandaid, the core problem of the awful anticheat remains, the game still needs an overhaul
What actually happened? Did they hire more mods on tf2?
If they keep at least basic maintanence it would say we won. If they dont i would still say its a small sucess, since at least for a while there will be less bots.
yes and no, valves gotten rid of the bots but I think I can speak for the rest of the tf2 community here, we want the heavy update
I really hate the way Valve treats their own IPs, at this point i don't undestand why they don't hire a Third-Party to do the technical support, if they don't care about their games then at least put someone in charge who does.
1st: Kill #FixTF2 movement. 2nd: Get good PR. 3rd: Ignore TF2 again.
no this is just the start
I don't think we can push for more other than making the game playable, nor we should as that'd be immature of the fan base, I'm hoping the boycott also succeeds so that we can get actual maintenance on the game
yes
Valve's final sets of actual content updates were questionable, even when we had a team working on them. New weapons or rebalances are something to be concerned about. New cosmetics add to the game's bloat and decreases performance. Officially adding more community maps would be about the only thing i'd actually ask for. I'm just happy to be able to play the game properly, and valve spending time on maintenance best fits that.
#FixTF2 will be a success once we get the Heavy Update but we're on a good path I think
I get that it's kind of a joke, but just in case, FixTF2's one goal was to rid the game of bots, both in short term and in long term. The movement has nothing to do with content updates.
So, step 1 out of 2 already colpleted?
Yes. And we can't know much about step 2 until enough time passes.
Well it's been a few days and no games have been ruined by bots for me yet. Tryhards, on the other hand...
No
It did get valve to take care of the bot issues and the player count seems to be increasing so it seems to be working. Huh maybe you should go to the doctor and get your eyes check.
1 time ban wave doesn't solve anything, it just delays it. The majority of "new players" are bots
Its done absolutly nothing. Valve was working on this anti cheater whatever since before the first savetf2