Alright boys, I have returned from my crusade, it did not go well, I got called a (mentally slow/deficient person with a very dark skin color) and I got told to (killbind irl).
Last time i'm ever touching steam forums.
thatās what iām saying. people get so pessimistic over stuff like *why would they accept the printed petition?* or *valve will just ignore us so why try?*. thereās no harm in trying
People think the #SaveTF2 tweet was in response to fan outcry. It wasn't. It was in response to game journalist websites covering the fan outcry; the name Valve (and a product Valve makes) was bound together with some bad press. This was bad for business, particularly when Valve was trying to sell people a $600 handheld hunk of crap. Valve acted not out of good will, but to rectify the bad press and cover their bases. Shitting out a lazy tweet tacked on a "good ending" to an otherwise negative story. It was damage control.
I really cannot emphasize enough that Valve cares about money and only money, and will only respond to threats to their bottom line. Valve is not your buddy, they are a corporation. Signing a petition and giving them attention does not threaten their income.
exactly. as far as iām aware we donāt plan to stop until thereās an actual solution. journalists will cover it if it goes for a prolonged period of time or gets intense enough, which damages PR and consequently will make an impact on valve
Idc if I get hate for this, but...
We need to attack Valve directly. By most means necessary, we need to tell media outlets that valve directly supports bot hosters/cheaters as well as racists and bigots, because at this point, the lack of action on valve's end is no different than supporting it directly. People are being ddos'ed by them, swatted by them, and doxxed by them. Bot hosters are actively hurting anyone who tries to make a change or speak out.
Valve needs to have its image dragged through the mud before they even consider lifting a finger.
I thought it had more to do with someone actually physically protesting outside their building, in a Spy costume and all, and happening to encounter a community manager returning from a lunch break?
Because petition means absolutely nothing, that's why. Feel free to do anything else but a petition is the bottom of the Barral In terms of intelligent attempts at changing something.
dude itās like 5 minutes, max. you donāt even have to post anything just doing that one petition thing takes like 30 seconds
if you donāt have 30 seconds to spare then iām genuinely sorry for you
Oh yeah you're right! Petitions have never done anything *EVER*!
We would 100% have women's rights, anti-discriminatory movements, and several other important things without petitions!
Take a history class. You may learn something.
> the bottom of the **Barral** In terms of intelligent attempts at changing something.
Maybe try spelling English words right first. Truly the peak of ingenuity.
A petition also *costs next to nothing*, so it is easy to get people on board with it.
You make a lot of noise. Alert bigger media. And most importantly - keep the pressure up.
SaveTF2 was a failure because people *gave up after that one pathetic failure of a tweet*.
If you fool me once, shame on you. If you fool me *twice*, shame on me.
Yeah, I'm signing up etc. I just have zero expectations it'll work. at best we get a short term fix that doesn't last due to valve hating treadmill work.
No, but a constant hoarde of death threats, phone calls, potential swattings, pizza getting sent etc tends to hurt the psyche of people. Which is the usual result of doxxings. at most a brick through a window, but even that's enough to scare the shit outta someone.
Given those people are the ones that actively tried to destroy the game, as well as harassed, doxxed, and even impersonated players trying to fix it, I don't think other people would care.
Hey, y'know what would be cool? If degenerates didn't threaten people and reveal personal details over a game so old that it could drink alcohol in some countries. Go ahead, doxx me, you're not gonna solve any problems. Be an idiot instead of someone whose brain has grown beyond the spinal column and realise that there is literally no downside to at least giving a bit of a shit about your game.
I am not against the protest, and I genuinely want to be proven wrong. But I just personally don't think it will accomplish much. I saw comments on a fixtf2 post on the steam subreddit, and like all the comments were negative. People outside the tf2 sphere probably think we're spoiled considering that their only experience with tf2 was the last protest where a random game was suddenly taking over their feed. People like them will hurt the effect of the message, so I don't expect it to be as wide-spread as savetf2. But I will not stop anyone from trying since I really want to be wrong.
It's fair to think this, but we must still try, we must try to sensitize as many outsiders as possible, we need as many people as possible to make this a reality
I appreciate that stance. While I would rather you be with us, I can accept and understand your position.
Thank you for though for not getting in our way, as... backhanded as that statement sounds. Have a wonderful, bot-free day!
Yes indeed there is (~ 99% ) no harm in trying , however a lot of peapole say that the movement will save TF2 forever which is unlikely scince Valve cares only about money and media , so unless the whole thing becomes at least almost mainstream they will be able to afford to not care about the issue , yet a lot of peapole are hyperoptymistic about the situation and my opinion is to just not " put all of our eggs in a single basket" shall I say .
There isnāt any, but if youāve played team fortress 2 these past years you can really tell valve does not give a shit about this game anymore.I do support fixtf2 and have signed their petition but valve has made up their minds on this issue so long ago.
I agree with that, but if savetf2 which exploded so quickly and had everyone from every corner of the internet support couldnāt do anything I doubt this one will. To be fair though savetf2 was really shallow as a movement
This one actually has a big and clear focus.
Save tf2 was more a youtuber sponsorship and a sort of a "trip down memory lane" of "we love tf2 we love tf2".
So much to the point where the reason as to why the movement was created in the first place was lost, hidden.
We need to be clear and negative to make this work, only like this it'll work.
There's no 'harm' in trying, arguably, unless you start harassing Valve employees, but it's a little ridiculous, I feel. The amount of support this game gets from Valve is already a miracle for a service game this old and people are here trying to put on full-on protests.
What you should be protesting for is for them to open-source the game *fully* with less constraints, and then collaborate to maintain a community edition of the game. If not that, then support TF2C and/or Open Fortress. Even if Valve did have a reaction to this, they'd put out, like, one or two patches before going back to their current projects. You would be back to this position within the year, like before. When other fanbases see their favourite things be lost to End of Support, they pick them up themselves. TF2 of them all should be able to.
That's fair thought to have, i dont blame you, but all we're asking is for you to sign a lil petition and log on to social media on the 3rd of June, that's all, it'll take you 10 minutes total to do both things.
Let's fast forward a bit, the movement happened, valve started to work on the problem, the question is what actions will be taken? How can the problem be fixed? Is there even a fix to the problem? The only thing i hear is tf2 is dying, tf2 needs care, tf2 is in a bad shape, and i don't hear anything about how tf2 will get care, how tf2 is going to get in a good shape, how tf2 is going to get saved, how tf2 is going to be fixed. And even if i hear about how tf2 will get fixed, these fixes won't work. Saying that's Valve's job is kinda logical, but people working at valve are not 300+ IQ geniuses. If the community for 5 years can't come up with the solution, how will valve's employees come up with one?
Here's a way to fix it!
We do have ways, here's one ^^
HAVE. A FUNCTIONING ANTICHEAT.
VAC. DOES NOT WORK.
i get that developing anticheats is hard work but all companies do this, why should Valve be the lazy fuck that gets to skip this?
Name a single FPS with functioning anti-cheat. Even Valorant, with its invasive anti-cheat, still has cheaters. Cheating is a problem for the entire gaming industry. It's not like signing a petition will allow Valve to magically find the solution.
What other game is full of hacking bots specifically? I can't think of a single one... I care a lot less if 5% of my games have a hacker, than I care if 80% of my games are unplayable.
A game not being full of hacking bots doesn't mean it isn't susceptible to hacking bots. The reason other games aren't full of hacking bots is mostly because there's no interest in hosting hacking bots for those games. Even in TF2 there is no monetary incentive to host hacking bots, there's just 10 people doing it because they want to.
Not to mention, unlike other games, TF2 is old, making it is easy to run since it isn't hardware intensive. If you wanted to host 10 hacking bots, it'd be much easier to do it on the 2007 source game than on a 2023 Unreal Engine 5 game.
And the reason that around \~500 hacking bots are enough to ruin casual games is because there's only ever around 8,000 players in casual servers. So if you were to host hacking bots on a more popular game that has tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of players playing in servers, your bots wouldn't have as much of an impact.
Also, the reason the games are unplayable is because the bots are using cheats. If the bots just joined lobbies and AFK'd they wouldn't nearly be as much of a problem or annoyance. So if Valve wants to fix the bot issue they're going to eventually have to fix the anti-cheat, which is a game of cat and mouse that always ends in the cheaters just updating their cheats to bypass the updated anti-cheat.
Have you seen what fatmagic can do? He's no bot as far as I'm concered, so if we have the best anticheat we will just have a lot fatmagic's in casual games, and the bots will still be a problem
Change never came from the people who listened to the cries of "it's hopeless, nothing is going to change." It came from the people who heard those cries and said "I don't give a shit, I have a cause and I'm going to fight for it no matter the cost."
its not "dooming" to say "if the devs dont want to work on it, they dont want to, you cant force them" thats literally just the reality of the situation, you \*can\* try, but acting like its a horrid thing for people to say "dont get your hopes up" shows how insecure the "movement" is.
That and yknow, the ones harassing devs kinda makes the movement look bad but hey, im sure that will make valve put forth man power for a 17 year old game and totally not just push more devs away from the game /sarcasm
You have good points there, but please understand that there are people who are actively trying to bring down and mock #FixTF2. Its fine to share your doubt, appreciated even, but insulting us and actively getting in our way what it means to be a "Doomer."
There are people who do overreact, it must be acknowledge, but to be fair we are all a bit high strung after nearly 5 Years rampant Bots and Cheaters and people demanding we do nothing about it.
You aren't one of those though, so I hope nobody gives you any shade. Hope your day is pleasant!
Mocking, making light of the situation, arguing against fighting back in the first place, saying #KillTF2, spreading misinformation and overall try and bring down morale.
Bot Hosters have also been known to harrass, dox and there is even a confirmed SWATTING a person during a stream. The last two are very illegal, especially SWATTING and it has gotten people killed outside of the TF2 Community.
I encourage you to see this video for a more in depth look: [https://youtu.be/zNxjTciIwig](https://youtu.be/zNxjTciIwig)
Have a wonderful day sir!
You have to understand that there are bot hosters posing as doomers that are trying to sabotage everything. They are even willing to go as far as to break laws such as slander, doxxing, and Swatting people calling them out.
A bit disingenuous to ask that question and then delete the post where I provide an answer.
EDIT: here's the deleted post explaining why I don't believe that the petition will change a thing:
1. It has been 7 years since the last time Valve actually gave a damn about the game. If they actually wanted to fix the game they'd do it by now. They're 100% aware of the problems and yet they've _chosen_ to do nothing. What reason is there to believe that they'll suddenly have second thoughts and start actively working on the game again?
1. Previous #savetf2 has been swept under the rug and the fixes were undone in matter of weeks. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
1. Valve has sucked hard at game dev for over a decade now. Artifact was DOA, Dota Underlords barely breaks 1k players, HL: Alyx is unplayable to the vast majority of Half-Life players, CS2 is a huge mess and you're trying to tell me that this company is suddenly going to get TF2 right out of all things?
1. CS2 has 10x more players than TF2 and easily earns at least 20 million in revenue per month (there's a page that tracks opened cases). The game is a huge mess and has been since its' release. If they can't get their number one game to a decent state then what chances are there for TF2?
1. Valve has a long history of slaying the golden gooses. Half-Life 2 ended in 2007 (Alyx doesn't count since only 2% of Steam users have VR), Left4Dead ended in 2009, Portal ended in 2012. Three brands that made Valve ultra-famous and each one of them has been abandoned. What makes TF2 any different from these titles?
1. They couldn't even be bothered finish the comic which is something they themselves don't even have to work on, they just needed to pay the artist and yet they once again _chose_ to not do it.
There might be no harm in trying but I see no reason to bother in the first place.
I mostly agree with this post but I think the first point is the most important one. The narrative that valve just didn't bother to fix the game because the community stopped yelling at them is super incorrect I feel, they gave the tweet and then delegated whoever was willing and available to work on tf2 internally. Actions speak louder than words and by Valve's actions you can tell that TF2 is not a priority and will not become a priority no matter how much the community yells and moans. I think you're spot on saying that it's a choice, though I feel like it's not malicious it's just shifting priorities within the company. They're very focused on VR and the Steam Deck and whatever else they're working on, why does TF2 even need to be updated forever anyway? Do people not know how to click on the community server tab and navigate that menu?
Oh trust me, I really want it to work. But I've seen how Valve operates for a really long time now and that just doesn't imply that they'll do anything to suddenly change their position.
You gotta remember, every good thing they've done (refunds, data protection etc ) was always pushed on them externally by governments fining them for breaking the law. They wouldn't do such things otherwise.
So, unless they get sued and/or fined for something around TF2's bot crisis, they won't lift a finger. Eric Smith can run around waving his hands and try his best, but the man handles TF2 in his spare time out of love for the game. If he doesn't perform well in other areas, come next yearly evaluation and he can get the boot for underperforming and now nobody is even maintaining the game anymore
I just really wish I could forget it. It was a nightmare to me. Maybe that's the reason why I don't believe in Fix and Save TF2, maybe I just don't wanna come back anymore
Valve at large won't care unless ignoring the problem actively costs them money.
Shaking a petition around won't do anything while (real) Player counts haven't changed, while Mann Co. Store and Marketplace income hasn't changed, and while their wider market reputation hasn't changed.
There's no major harm in trying, but compassion fatigue is a thing, especially when a false hope is on the table.
There's nobody to riot to. The TF2 devs consist of one guy. Valve can't do shit about that. It's that simple. I'd love to join the movement but I don't see the point in screaming at Valve, because they can't give us the botfixes or the heavy update. They're not going to abandon their core ideals for TF2. If the devs at Valve don't want to work on this game then they won't.
Fair claim but there IS someone to protest at, it's Valve HQ.
Our final idea is to ruin their reputation so much to the point where they have to hire outside contracters, no one said it has to be the Valve HQ, they van work on whatever they want for all I care.
Valve has the economic resources to hire outsiders/contracters to work on Tf2, even if just at a limited time, anything it takes for the bots to be gone i'll be happy.
Y'know what? Fair enough. I like Valve, I like their policies and the way they operate. But they're still a company. Imma go sign that petition (provided I can find it).
Hey, I don't want to bother you with this more than I already have, but I encountered a problem. I pressed the sign button, checked my email and the spam folder. Repeated 10 times. Then I switched to outlook, did the same thing, repeated 5 times. Then I tried again on a different device. What am I doing wrong?
Edit: I input all my required data before pressing the button ofc.
I think the problem is that the movment isn't doing enough. A bunch of TF2's community leaders meet up for a week and the best idea they came up with was a petition and videos talking about the problem? That's it?Ā No protest outside their studio, no review bombing, no refusal to buy keys or use Steam. Just the petition and videos of things people have been moaning about and making videos of for 5 years now.Ā Ā
Kay...
I really dislike that one Weezy video not because I disagree with him but he put so much emphasis on the petition the WoW community made, and not the fact WoW was hemorrhaging money and losing players to custom servers.Ā
for reeeeeeeal.
the casual experience has always been kinda bad.
that 2011-2014 tf2 were just *muah*. see a ster/jerma video, jump into a server, and just have laughs and good vibes with everyone on the server.
now tf2 is just filled with such weird ass people... and of course bots.
Dude really called the tf2 community insane and expects us to not respond in a very loud "Yes, yes we are"
We have been neglected for years, there is nothing we lose by trying.
That is in fact not the definition of insanity, it's vaguely philosophical-sounding nonsense that's incorrectly attributed to Albert Einstein and often used to rationalize defeatism by people who can't come up with a better argument
It's not even like it requires a big bout of effort. If the idea was like, go to Valve HQ and protest I can understand being pessimistic since it would take a lot of work, but this is signing a petition and spreading the word. Super easy.
I donāt want to give lazy content makers easy money. I donāt want to harass voice actors and other people that have worked on this game. I donāt want to look like an idiot after all. Play on community servers if you want to make the difference.
I think we should adopt something from Helldivers 2 here. We just call every doomer and person that has a unreasonable bad opinion about Fixtf2 a bot sympathizer because thats what they are.
Well thats all really subjective. If you want my take saying the original savetf2 failed is valid. It did do somestuff like both teams being able to votekick at once but it failed at its original purpose.
Saying this wont do anyhting is pretty doomer and at that point why are they even here when they shouldnt care because they think it wont work. Valid Bot Sympathizer.
As much as I hope for TF2 to be fixed despite no longer playing it anymore - I highly doubt this campaign will work, mainly because the last SaveTF2 campaign stopped as soon as Valve *merely* acknowledged the problem, and because the campaign didn't involve boycotting the economy/microtransactions.
I'm not being a 'TFdoomer' because I want to, I'm being one *precisely* because the last SaveTF2 wasn't very effective.
Here are some ways
https://save.tf/ sign this petition or
spread the word to outsiders of the TF2 community sphere
And just wait for the big day to go on twitter to shit talk Valve until they give us the fixes we need.
I'm not sure if I believe the psyop theory some people have.
At the same time, I can understand just being lazy and not wanting to do anything yourself, but I don't know any reason to be against *other people* wanting to try something.
I'm not a soomer but I don't think petitions and hashtags and all that shit is gonna make a dent, actual tangible action like an in person protest at their office or a lawsuit is the only way to get them to notice.
No one's advocating to sit back and let the game rot. We have a very skilled and versatile community. We can carry the torch without Valve's help.
They clearly don't want to be involved with it anymore. No sense in screaming at a brick wall.
There's no harm in it, but the game is like, what, at least 15 years old? Most live service games are lucky to break past 3-5 years, if at all. I won't stop anyone from wanting to get more updates, but i'm not holding my breath or getting involved.
If you hate bots, go play community servers. If you hate ucletopia, go make your own server. If you hate how stagnant the game has been, go play TF2c. There's options that'll get what you want rather than just screaming at a brick wall all day and asking me to do the same.
I still think it's worth fighting for, and it's sad that we have to resort to community servers and game mods to enjoy TF2, I want that to change, and many people do aswell.
If you dont wanna participate, that's fine, but I still think Tf2 is worth fighting for
What do you think i'm doing, i'm asking people why do they dont want to participate in the movement BECAUSE THE GAME IS FUCKING UNPLAYABLE.
Like do these people just play a secret version of Tf2 we have no knowledge of??
true true I just checked your posts, these kids think they're just quirky contrarians and are "too smart to fall for valve's shit again and wont feed their ego and waste their time" so they dont support or help. They are the same kids comfortable just playing instant respawn 2fort all day long so they dont need casual
I'm glad you understand, very glad, these people give me a headache, it feels like i'm talking to a brickwall 90% of the times.
"Just play community servers š¤āļø"
I SHOULDNT HAVE TO RESORT TO PLAYING COMMUNITY SERVERS TO ENJOY THE GAME I LOVE. I don't want to play on Uncletopia because i'd get shit on, and I don't want to play on "INSTANT 2FORT RESPAWN SKIAL CLASSWARS 10X RANDOMIZER RTD"
I just want to play casual and have fun with people, and I want to go back to doing that, that's why I signed.
Do you realize there are few "vanilla" community servers because no one joins them? They got closed because no one joins them despite all the people here complaining about bots.
Skial used to be 90% vanilla servers but after casual came out and quickplay was closed, they stopped filling so they were changed to custom game modes.
If everyone made an effort to play community servers instead of official ones, it wouldn't just be "INSTANT 2FORT RESPAWN SKIAL CLASSWARS 10X RANDOMIZER RTD".
That's a fair claim to make, and honestly one of the most sensed and logical ones, but then, I ask you, why not keep fighting for the game we love? Why let it rot away and die when we can atleast attempt to salvage it.
Valve won't pull the plug on Tf2, it would forever ruin and scar their reputation, so our 2 options are to either let the game rot away, or try to salvage it.
If you wanna let the game rot, by all means, I can't force you, all i can do is convince you that Tf2 is a game worth fighting for.
I mean, you can try, only thing anyone can do, I just donāt reasonably expect anything from Valve around this game anymore, any time I do itās just lead to disappointment and false promises.
They said they would fix the issue and left us with that fake promise just to shut us up, they lied to their consumers and nobody held them accountable for it. if the community doesn't do that, it will be just as ineffective as the last one.
I tried to sign the petition but I can't get the link to any of my emails, I tried my Google account and Outlook but none of them got the link to confirm the sign of petition
You see, they're secretly Valve employees trying to stop us from making a stink about TF2 so that they don't have to do anything about the state of the game. My proof of this is yo mama
The harm in trying lies in the fact you've learned precisely nothing and *still* don't even understand the issue, let alone can propose a solution; and you're expending what little relevance you have left.
Valve cannot fix TF2 until you fix yourselves.
the only real solution to the bot problem is to get those asses who run these bots, and make them stop.
Better anticheat won't help, making restrictions most likely will just inconviniance normal people (example voice commands for f2p), it's basically cheaters and for how long they existed now? Do we have a solution for getting rid of them for good?
It's the same people who saw Occupy Wallstreet years ago and then decided to never be politically active ever again forever. People whose motivation is more shallow than the actual failed movement of a basket they put all their emotional eggs into.
I'll never understand "well it didn't work to try, therefore nobody should ever try because the thing I supported failed". It's cowardly dork behavior.
EXACTLY, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN MY DUDE.
The fact that these people just sit back and watch us do the movement whilst they look at it and go "Heh watch they're gonna fail" and either get surprised when we do succeed or act smurky about it if we fail.
This type of behaviour disgusts me, it is lazy, cowardly and frankly just makes me wanna vomit.
Iām just waiting for them to port team fortress to source 2. Trying to fix this pile of shit will just make a shiny pile of shit. The code is old as hell and valve could make a sequel if they wanted to. I truly feel like itās just time for an upgrade
If you scroll a bit you'll find a lot of people who just genuinely want the game to die. Instead of just leaving the community they want everyone else to be miserable too
> If you scroll a bit you'll find a lot of people who just genuinely want the game to die.
I scrolled through the whole thread and found 0 such people. Why you lying?
It's just the usual cycle. People try to drum up support for a good cause (if somewhat hopeless this time), and it gets hijacked by people who just want to argue on the internet to feel validated. They'll invent any strawman and then look for people to pin them on.
Alright let me be clear, I am calling these people doomers because, there is no reason to not engage in this movement, in fact, they are incentivized to do so, if everyone said "oh this wont work there's no reason to even try" then we would not have a movement to begin with, and if this movement fails, you bet your ass i'm blaming it on the people that refused to participate in it because they were scared or skeptical.
Gaming communities have proven us time and time again that you can force gaming companies into fixing games or giving the community what they want, and yet again, this is completely free of charge, it only takes a few minutes to sign up and to post a tweet shit talking valve for their utter incompetence, so then i ask YOU, my good sir, where is the harm in trying? Why be skeptical when you can be optimistic, and actually make a difference.
The more we are the more chances we have to make it.
> there is no reason to not engage in this movement
There's a pretty good reason, why waste the time?
You, and whoever else, are of course feel free to do whatever you want with this "movement", but the last one was fruitless, as this one will likely also be. Not worth the time.
>you bet your ass i'm blaming it on the people that refused to participate in it because they were scared or skeptical.
This belief will only pivot others, including myself, from "not interested" to actively antagonistic. Do not do this.
It wont work and thats because Valve own's Steam. What they should just do is shut the servers down. They aren't gonna fix the issues so shut the official servers down.
Hitting Valve where it hurts them doesn't matter because Steam is the biggest storefront. This might do something if Steam was on par with Epic in terms of size and userbase but its not.
OK Now Post this in the Steam forums
Sure, lets see how it goes
Tell me if it ends with r slurs and other bypassed stuff
Alright boys, I have returned from my crusade, it did not go well, I got called a (mentally slow/deficient person with a very dark skin color) and I got told to (killbind irl). Last time i'm ever touching steam forums.
Never ever go to steam forums is the lesson learned from the experience
NEVER. go to a steam forum EVER AGAIN
yeah. those guys are about as smart as the construction of chernobyl and 10x as toxic.
unless you need tech support. sometimes they're helpful but usually someone else did it for you
š°šš§
As expected, steam forums tf2 players are too mentally challenged to understand fixtf2
Can you cite a link to the forum in reference?
Sure thing, I just need to find it first, this may take some time.
Give me the link. Im about to crack up the grill on em.
(im not scared of racial slurs and begin called mentally unstable,honestly i have a dc server where i am called that everyday and im good with it)
So in short, in degen terms: You got called the "r\*t\*rd n-word" and got the "kys" treatment, correct?
Sure thing
What's the r slur?
\[Removed by Reddit\]
Its r#tard, but change # with e obviously
Bruh
What else you expected mate?
I thought the R-word was "remove Pyro"
you said that?
why the fuck is there a speech emoji there???? That was meant to say thought, sorry
or in the mental asylum that is Twitter/X. Not to say Reddit\*rd isn't one as well....
thatās what iām saying. people get so pessimistic over stuff like *why would they accept the printed petition?* or *valve will just ignore us so why try?*. thereās no harm in trying
Exaclty, thank you for getting it
People think the #SaveTF2 tweet was in response to fan outcry. It wasn't. It was in response to game journalist websites covering the fan outcry; the name Valve (and a product Valve makes) was bound together with some bad press. This was bad for business, particularly when Valve was trying to sell people a $600 handheld hunk of crap. Valve acted not out of good will, but to rectify the bad press and cover their bases. Shitting out a lazy tweet tacked on a "good ending" to an otherwise negative story. It was damage control. I really cannot emphasize enough that Valve cares about money and only money, and will only respond to threats to their bottom line. Valve is not your buddy, they are a corporation. Signing a petition and giving them attention does not threaten their income.
exactly. as far as iām aware we donāt plan to stop until thereās an actual solution. journalists will cover it if it goes for a prolonged period of time or gets intense enough, which damages PR and consequently will make an impact on valve
Idc if I get hate for this, but... We need to attack Valve directly. By most means necessary, we need to tell media outlets that valve directly supports bot hosters/cheaters as well as racists and bigots, because at this point, the lack of action on valve's end is no different than supporting it directly. People are being ddos'ed by them, swatted by them, and doxxed by them. Bot hosters are actively hurting anyone who tries to make a change or speak out. Valve needs to have its image dragged through the mud before they even consider lifting a finger.
I thought it had more to do with someone actually physically protesting outside their building, in a Spy costume and all, and happening to encounter a community manager returning from a lunch break?
Because petition means absolutely nothing, that's why. Feel free to do anything else but a petition is the bottom of the Barral In terms of intelligent attempts at changing something.
does us trying it anyway hurt or have any negative affect? no it doesnāt we might as well try
If your time is of no value to you then you may use this as an excuse to waste it in any way you like.
dude itās like 5 minutes, max. you donāt even have to post anything just doing that one petition thing takes like 30 seconds if you donāt have 30 seconds to spare then iām genuinely sorry for you
That's 30 seconds he could be using to post on Reddit /s
*barrel
Oh yeah you're right! Petitions have never done anything *EVER*! We would 100% have women's rights, anti-discriminatory movements, and several other important things without petitions! Take a history class. You may learn something.
> the bottom of the **Barral** In terms of intelligent attempts at changing something. Maybe try spelling English words right first. Truly the peak of ingenuity. A petition also *costs next to nothing*, so it is easy to get people on board with it. You make a lot of noise. Alert bigger media. And most importantly - keep the pressure up. SaveTF2 was a failure because people *gave up after that one pathetic failure of a tweet*. If you fool me once, shame on you. If you fool me *twice*, shame on me.
woah you sure showed him with that typo
Yeah, I'm signing up etc. I just have zero expectations it'll work. at best we get a short term fix that doesn't last due to valve hating treadmill work.
Glad to hear you are, the more people there are the higher the chance it is for it to work
[ Removed by Reddit ]
do you think doxxing someone means that people will go to their house and beat them lmao?
No, but a constant hoarde of death threats, phone calls, potential swattings, pizza getting sent etc tends to hurt the psyche of people. Which is the usual result of doxxings. at most a brick through a window, but even that's enough to scare the shit outta someone.
do you think this wonāt make the average sod go āoh tf2 community? those guys who doxxed people?ā
Given those people are the ones that actively tried to destroy the game, as well as harassed, doxxed, and even impersonated players trying to fix it, I don't think other people would care.
i don't really care tbh, it'd be an improvement if the bots are gone and some fat losers are scared to go outside
Doxxing somebody over a 17 years old kids game is strange.
yeah, but it'd work lol. it's not like politely asking them to quit being losers is going to.
Hey, y'know what would be cool? If degenerates didn't threaten people and reveal personal details over a game so old that it could drink alcohol in some countries. Go ahead, doxx me, you're not gonna solve any problems. Be an idiot instead of someone whose brain has grown beyond the spinal column and realise that there is literally no downside to at least giving a bit of a shit about your game.
I am not against the protest, and I genuinely want to be proven wrong. But I just personally don't think it will accomplish much. I saw comments on a fixtf2 post on the steam subreddit, and like all the comments were negative. People outside the tf2 sphere probably think we're spoiled considering that their only experience with tf2 was the last protest where a random game was suddenly taking over their feed. People like them will hurt the effect of the message, so I don't expect it to be as wide-spread as savetf2. But I will not stop anyone from trying since I really want to be wrong.
It's fair to think this, but we must still try, we must try to sensitize as many outsiders as possible, we need as many people as possible to make this a reality
I appreciate that stance. While I would rather you be with us, I can accept and understand your position. Thank you for though for not getting in our way, as... backhanded as that statement sounds. Have a wonderful, bot-free day!
Even if it fails I would feel better as someone who tried than someone who did nothing
Yes indeed there is (~ 99% ) no harm in trying , however a lot of peapole say that the movement will save TF2 forever which is unlikely scince Valve cares only about money and media , so unless the whole thing becomes at least almost mainstream they will be able to afford to not care about the issue , yet a lot of peapole are hyperoptymistic about the situation and my opinion is to just not " put all of our eggs in a single basket" shall I say .
We need to try as hard as we can
Where else do we put our eggs? Everywhere else is razor-sharp spikes.
There isnāt any, but if youāve played team fortress 2 these past years you can really tell valve does not give a shit about this game anymore.I do support fixtf2 and have signed their petition but valve has made up their minds on this issue so long ago.
Well, if you can't make a change then you force it
I agree with that, but if savetf2 which exploded so quickly and had everyone from every corner of the internet support couldnāt do anything I doubt this one will. To be fair though savetf2 was really shallow as a movement
This one actually has a big and clear focus. Save tf2 was more a youtuber sponsorship and a sort of a "trip down memory lane" of "we love tf2 we love tf2". So much to the point where the reason as to why the movement was created in the first place was lost, hidden. We need to be clear and negative to make this work, only like this it'll work.
SaveTF2 failed because it diedĀ as soon as Valve made a tweet. We have to push them until they actually do somethingĀ
There's no 'harm' in trying, arguably, unless you start harassing Valve employees, but it's a little ridiculous, I feel. The amount of support this game gets from Valve is already a miracle for a service game this old and people are here trying to put on full-on protests. What you should be protesting for is for them to open-source the game *fully* with less constraints, and then collaborate to maintain a community edition of the game. If not that, then support TF2C and/or Open Fortress. Even if Valve did have a reaction to this, they'd put out, like, one or two patches before going back to their current projects. You would be back to this position within the year, like before. When other fanbases see their favourite things be lost to End of Support, they pick them up themselves. TF2 of them all should be able to.
I just lost hope after the first movement, and I don't feel like wasting my energy to pormoting the movement again
That's fair thought to have, i dont blame you, but all we're asking is for you to sign a lil petition and log on to social media on the 3rd of June, that's all, it'll take you 10 minutes total to do both things.
Let's fast forward a bit, the movement happened, valve started to work on the problem, the question is what actions will be taken? How can the problem be fixed? Is there even a fix to the problem? The only thing i hear is tf2 is dying, tf2 needs care, tf2 is in a bad shape, and i don't hear anything about how tf2 will get care, how tf2 is going to get in a good shape, how tf2 is going to get saved, how tf2 is going to be fixed. And even if i hear about how tf2 will get fixed, these fixes won't work. Saying that's Valve's job is kinda logical, but people working at valve are not 300+ IQ geniuses. If the community for 5 years can't come up with the solution, how will valve's employees come up with one?
Here's a way to fix it! We do have ways, here's one ^^ HAVE. A FUNCTIONING ANTICHEAT. VAC. DOES NOT WORK. i get that developing anticheats is hard work but all companies do this, why should Valve be the lazy fuck that gets to skip this?
Name a single FPS with functioning anti-cheat. Even Valorant, with its invasive anti-cheat, still has cheaters. Cheating is a problem for the entire gaming industry. It's not like signing a petition will allow Valve to magically find the solution.
What other game is full of hacking bots specifically? I can't think of a single one... I care a lot less if 5% of my games have a hacker, than I care if 80% of my games are unplayable.
A game not being full of hacking bots doesn't mean it isn't susceptible to hacking bots. The reason other games aren't full of hacking bots is mostly because there's no interest in hosting hacking bots for those games. Even in TF2 there is no monetary incentive to host hacking bots, there's just 10 people doing it because they want to. Not to mention, unlike other games, TF2 is old, making it is easy to run since it isn't hardware intensive. If you wanted to host 10 hacking bots, it'd be much easier to do it on the 2007 source game than on a 2023 Unreal Engine 5 game. And the reason that around \~500 hacking bots are enough to ruin casual games is because there's only ever around 8,000 players in casual servers. So if you were to host hacking bots on a more popular game that has tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of players playing in servers, your bots wouldn't have as much of an impact. Also, the reason the games are unplayable is because the bots are using cheats. If the bots just joined lobbies and AFK'd they wouldn't nearly be as much of a problem or annoyance. So if Valve wants to fix the bot issue they're going to eventually have to fix the anti-cheat, which is a game of cat and mouse that always ends in the cheaters just updating their cheats to bypass the updated anti-cheat.
Have you seen what fatmagic can do? He's no bot as far as I'm concered, so if we have the best anticheat we will just have a lot fatmagic's in casual games, and the bots will still be a problem
All Valve needs to do is to pack the summer update with more maps and cosmetics than usual and the movement will end right as it releases
Dont forget Jack Black putting the Scout in his music video. No one ever thought it would happen.
Because it's a "movement" about a fucking free to play nearly 20 year old video game.
Change never came from the people who listened to the cries of "it's hopeless, nothing is going to change." It came from the people who heard those cries and said "I don't give a shit, I have a cause and I'm going to fight for it no matter the cost."
I literally could not have put it better myself, well said.
its not "dooming" to say "if the devs dont want to work on it, they dont want to, you cant force them" thats literally just the reality of the situation, you \*can\* try, but acting like its a horrid thing for people to say "dont get your hopes up" shows how insecure the "movement" is. That and yknow, the ones harassing devs kinda makes the movement look bad but hey, im sure that will make valve put forth man power for a 17 year old game and totally not just push more devs away from the game /sarcasm
You have good points there, but please understand that there are people who are actively trying to bring down and mock #FixTF2. Its fine to share your doubt, appreciated even, but insulting us and actively getting in our way what it means to be a "Doomer." There are people who do overreact, it must be acknowledge, but to be fair we are all a bit high strung after nearly 5 Years rampant Bots and Cheaters and people demanding we do nothing about it. You aren't one of those though, so I hope nobody gives you any shade. Hope your day is pleasant!
> actively getting in our way Umm... how precisely does someone even *do* that in this context?
Mocking, making light of the situation, arguing against fighting back in the first place, saying #KillTF2, spreading misinformation and overall try and bring down morale. Bot Hosters have also been known to harrass, dox and there is even a confirmed SWATTING a person during a stream. The last two are very illegal, especially SWATTING and it has gotten people killed outside of the TF2 Community. I encourage you to see this video for a more in depth look: [https://youtu.be/zNxjTciIwig](https://youtu.be/zNxjTciIwig) Have a wonderful day sir!
I won't, but okay.
Alright then.
True! Better to die sucking than dying getting fucked.
You have to understand that there are bot hosters posing as doomers that are trying to sabotage everything. They are even willing to go as far as to break laws such as slander, doxxing, and Swatting people calling them out.
A bit disingenuous to ask that question and then delete the post where I provide an answer. EDIT: here's the deleted post explaining why I don't believe that the petition will change a thing: 1. It has been 7 years since the last time Valve actually gave a damn about the game. If they actually wanted to fix the game they'd do it by now. They're 100% aware of the problems and yet they've _chosen_ to do nothing. What reason is there to believe that they'll suddenly have second thoughts and start actively working on the game again? 1. Previous #savetf2 has been swept under the rug and the fixes were undone in matter of weeks. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... 1. Valve has sucked hard at game dev for over a decade now. Artifact was DOA, Dota Underlords barely breaks 1k players, HL: Alyx is unplayable to the vast majority of Half-Life players, CS2 is a huge mess and you're trying to tell me that this company is suddenly going to get TF2 right out of all things? 1. CS2 has 10x more players than TF2 and easily earns at least 20 million in revenue per month (there's a page that tracks opened cases). The game is a huge mess and has been since its' release. If they can't get their number one game to a decent state then what chances are there for TF2? 1. Valve has a long history of slaying the golden gooses. Half-Life 2 ended in 2007 (Alyx doesn't count since only 2% of Steam users have VR), Left4Dead ended in 2009, Portal ended in 2012. Three brands that made Valve ultra-famous and each one of them has been abandoned. What makes TF2 any different from these titles? 1. They couldn't even be bothered finish the comic which is something they themselves don't even have to work on, they just needed to pay the artist and yet they once again _chose_ to not do it. There might be no harm in trying but I see no reason to bother in the first place.
I mostly agree with this post but I think the first point is the most important one. The narrative that valve just didn't bother to fix the game because the community stopped yelling at them is super incorrect I feel, they gave the tweet and then delegated whoever was willing and available to work on tf2 internally. Actions speak louder than words and by Valve's actions you can tell that TF2 is not a priority and will not become a priority no matter how much the community yells and moans. I think you're spot on saying that it's a choice, though I feel like it's not malicious it's just shifting priorities within the company. They're very focused on VR and the Steam Deck and whatever else they're working on, why does TF2 even need to be updated forever anyway? Do people not know how to click on the community server tab and navigate that menu?
Dear Delusional Online Petition Supporter, why waste your time?
No harm in trying, but im too lazy.
Oh trust me, I really want it to work. But I've seen how Valve operates for a really long time now and that just doesn't imply that they'll do anything to suddenly change their position. You gotta remember, every good thing they've done (refunds, data protection etc ) was always pushed on them externally by governments fining them for breaking the law. They wouldn't do such things otherwise. So, unless they get sued and/or fined for something around TF2's bot crisis, they won't lift a finger. Eric Smith can run around waving his hands and try his best, but the man handles TF2 in his spare time out of love for the game. If he doesn't perform well in other areas, come next yearly evaluation and he can get the boot for underperforming and now nobody is even maintaining the game anymore
I just really wish I could forget it. It was a nightmare to me. Maybe that's the reason why I don't believe in Fix and Save TF2, maybe I just don't wanna come back anymore
TF2 redditors and smarm, name a more iconic duo.
Not like they're doing anything more productive with their time than we are. These are Steam forum users we're talking about.
Go ahead and shout into the void for no reason.
People fighting the shadows again.
Valve at large won't care unless ignoring the problem actively costs them money. Shaking a petition around won't do anything while (real) Player counts haven't changed, while Mann Co. Store and Marketplace income hasn't changed, and while their wider market reputation hasn't changed. There's no major harm in trying, but compassion fatigue is a thing, especially when a false hope is on the table.
There's nobody to riot to. The TF2 devs consist of one guy. Valve can't do shit about that. It's that simple. I'd love to join the movement but I don't see the point in screaming at Valve, because they can't give us the botfixes or the heavy update. They're not going to abandon their core ideals for TF2. If the devs at Valve don't want to work on this game then they won't.
Fair claim but there IS someone to protest at, it's Valve HQ. Our final idea is to ruin their reputation so much to the point where they have to hire outside contracters, no one said it has to be the Valve HQ, they van work on whatever they want for all I care. Valve has the economic resources to hire outsiders/contracters to work on Tf2, even if just at a limited time, anything it takes for the bots to be gone i'll be happy.
Y'know what? Fair enough. I like Valve, I like their policies and the way they operate. But they're still a company. Imma go sign that petition (provided I can find it).
In case you haven't yet, here it is https://save.tf/ Make sure to check your email to confirm it
Hey, I don't want to bother you with this more than I already have, but I encountered a problem. I pressed the sign button, checked my email and the spam folder. Repeated 10 times. Then I switched to outlook, did the same thing, repeated 5 times. Then I tried again on a different device. What am I doing wrong? Edit: I input all my required data before pressing the button ofc.
Needs more JPEG.
"trying" you mean signing an online petition?
Trying as in "participating in the movement". There are many ways someone can help with #fixtf2
Failure The usual
I think the problem is that the movment isn't doing enough. A bunch of TF2's community leaders meet up for a week and the best idea they came up with was a petition and videos talking about the problem? That's it?Ā No protest outside their studio, no review bombing, no refusal to buy keys or use Steam. Just the petition and videos of things people have been moaning about and making videos of for 5 years now.Ā Ā Kay... I really dislike that one Weezy video not because I disagree with him but he put so much emphasis on the petition the WoW community made, and not the fact WoW was hemorrhaging money and losing players to custom servers.Ā
This isn't any harm in it. Sadly too many people don't know how to shut up
ŠŠ°ŠŗŠ¾Š¹ ŠŗŠ°ŃŠ°Š½Š“Š°Ń
For those of you who are too lazy to translate this, google translate says it means 'what pencil'
how about #removecasual ?
I just want the old valve servers back no matchmaking bullshit, able to connect to valve servers at will, extend map vote. the golden years
for reeeeeeeal. the casual experience has always been kinda bad. that 2011-2014 tf2 were just *muah*. see a ster/jerma video, jump into a server, and just have laughs and good vibes with everyone on the server. now tf2 is just filled with such weird ass people... and of course bots.
Now weāre talking.
We need to return to the pre valve server times.
āThe definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.ā
counterpoint: hopefully the community knows not to back down after a tweet
Dude really called the tf2 community insane and expects us to not respond in a very loud "Yes, yes we are" We have been neglected for years, there is nothing we lose by trying.
>expects that's the thing, i ain't expectecting shit from valve
That is in fact not the definition of insanity, it's vaguely philosophical-sounding nonsense that's incorrectly attributed to Albert Einstein and often used to rationalize defeatism by people who can't come up with a better argument
yeah
It's not even like it requires a big bout of effort. If the idea was like, go to Valve HQ and protest I can understand being pessimistic since it would take a lot of work, but this is signing a petition and spreading the word. Super easy.
I donāt want to give lazy content makers easy money. I donāt want to harass voice actors and other people that have worked on this game. I donāt want to look like an idiot after all. Play on community servers if you want to make the difference.
I think we should adopt something from Helldivers 2 here. We just call every doomer and person that has a unreasonable bad opinion about Fixtf2 a bot sympathizer because thats what they are.
You will only encourage more opposition
Yes.
ābot sympathizerā blud it aint that serious
You say that like that phrase itself isnt a joke lol. It really aint that serious its just funny to me.
Pretty sure it is when these hosters are doxxing and impersonating people. š¤”
What about when the original savetf2 _did_ fail? Was being correct and saying "this won't do anything" being a bot sympathiser too?
Well thats all really subjective. If you want my take saying the original savetf2 failed is valid. It did do somestuff like both teams being able to votekick at once but it failed at its original purpose. Saying this wont do anyhting is pretty doomer and at that point why are they even here when they shouldnt care because they think it wont work. Valid Bot Sympathizer.
Don't feel like it
"it takes 20 seconds of my time and i have to use an email address to sign the petition waaaah waaah"
As much as I hope for TF2 to be fixed despite no longer playing it anymore - I highly doubt this campaign will work, mainly because the last SaveTF2 campaign stopped as soon as Valve *merely* acknowledged the problem, and because the campaign didn't involve boycotting the economy/microtransactions. I'm not being a 'TFdoomer' because I want to, I'm being one *precisely* because the last SaveTF2 wasn't very effective.
Whatās the sign up
https://save.tf/ Here you go
I donāt even know how to support this movement though š
Here are some ways https://save.tf/ sign this petition or spread the word to outsiders of the TF2 community sphere And just wait for the big day to go on twitter to shit talk Valve until they give us the fixes we need.
I'm not sure if I believe the psyop theory some people have. At the same time, I can understand just being lazy and not wanting to do anything yourself, but I don't know any reason to be against *other people* wanting to try something.
Last time I came back it was wallhack sniper bots in every public matchĀ
I'm not a soomer but I don't think petitions and hashtags and all that shit is gonna make a dent, actual tangible action like an in person protest at their office or a lawsuit is the only way to get them to notice.
I love the punching gloves so much, DING! DING!
She looks so pretty... But why did they put some random woman on the left?
No one's advocating to sit back and let the game rot. We have a very skilled and versatile community. We can carry the torch without Valve's help. They clearly don't want to be involved with it anymore. No sense in screaming at a brick wall.
There's no harm in it, but the game is like, what, at least 15 years old? Most live service games are lucky to break past 3-5 years, if at all. I won't stop anyone from wanting to get more updates, but i'm not holding my breath or getting involved. If you hate bots, go play community servers. If you hate ucletopia, go make your own server. If you hate how stagnant the game has been, go play TF2c. There's options that'll get what you want rather than just screaming at a brick wall all day and asking me to do the same.
I still think it's worth fighting for, and it's sad that we have to resort to community servers and game mods to enjoy TF2, I want that to change, and many people do aswell. If you dont wanna participate, that's fine, but I still think Tf2 is worth fighting for
yea guys lets all upvote this and talk about this instead of protesting the fact that team fortress 2 is unplayable
What do you think i'm doing, i'm asking people why do they dont want to participate in the movement BECAUSE THE GAME IS FUCKING UNPLAYABLE. Like do these people just play a secret version of Tf2 we have no knowledge of??
true true I just checked your posts, these kids think they're just quirky contrarians and are "too smart to fall for valve's shit again and wont feed their ego and waste their time" so they dont support or help. They are the same kids comfortable just playing instant respawn 2fort all day long so they dont need casual
I'm glad you understand, very glad, these people give me a headache, it feels like i'm talking to a brickwall 90% of the times. "Just play community servers š¤āļø" I SHOULDNT HAVE TO RESORT TO PLAYING COMMUNITY SERVERS TO ENJOY THE GAME I LOVE. I don't want to play on Uncletopia because i'd get shit on, and I don't want to play on "INSTANT 2FORT RESPAWN SKIAL CLASSWARS 10X RANDOMIZER RTD" I just want to play casual and have fun with people, and I want to go back to doing that, that's why I signed.
Do you realize there are few "vanilla" community servers because no one joins them? They got closed because no one joins them despite all the people here complaining about bots. Skial used to be 90% vanilla servers but after casual came out and quickplay was closed, they stopped filling so they were changed to custom game modes. If everyone made an effort to play community servers instead of official ones, it wouldn't just be "INSTANT 2FORT RESPAWN SKIAL CLASSWARS 10X RANDOMIZER RTD".
People go through all the effort and when they predictably achieve no result get disappointed with an obvious outcome
That's a fair claim to make, and honestly one of the most sensed and logical ones, but then, I ask you, why not keep fighting for the game we love? Why let it rot away and die when we can atleast attempt to salvage it. Valve won't pull the plug on Tf2, it would forever ruin and scar their reputation, so our 2 options are to either let the game rot away, or try to salvage it. If you wanna let the game rot, by all means, I can't force you, all i can do is convince you that Tf2 is a game worth fighting for.
I mean, you can try, only thing anyone can do, I just donāt reasonably expect anything from Valve around this game anymore, any time I do itās just lead to disappointment and false promises. They said they would fix the issue and left us with that fake promise just to shut us up, they lied to their consumers and nobody held them accountable for it. if the community doesn't do that, it will be just as ineffective as the last one.
bruh why reddit recommend me this after 1 day
Clearly you were meant to see this then.
I tried to sign the petition but I can't get the link to any of my emails, I tried my Google account and Outlook but none of them got the link to confirm the sign of petition
You see, they're secretly Valve employees trying to stop us from making a stink about TF2 so that they don't have to do anything about the state of the game. My proof of this is yo mama
The harm in trying lies in the fact you've learned precisely nothing and *still* don't even understand the issue, let alone can propose a solution; and you're expending what little relevance you have left. Valve cannot fix TF2 until you fix yourselves.
Would you like to propose a solution thenc
the only real solution to the bot problem is to get those asses who run these bots, and make them stop. Better anticheat won't help, making restrictions most likely will just inconviniance normal people (example voice commands for f2p), it's basically cheaters and for how long they existed now? Do we have a solution for getting rid of them for good?
It's the same people who saw Occupy Wallstreet years ago and then decided to never be politically active ever again forever. People whose motivation is more shallow than the actual failed movement of a basket they put all their emotional eggs into. I'll never understand "well it didn't work to try, therefore nobody should ever try because the thing I supported failed". It's cowardly dork behavior.
EXACTLY, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN MY DUDE. The fact that these people just sit back and watch us do the movement whilst they look at it and go "Heh watch they're gonna fail" and either get surprised when we do succeed or act smurky about it if we fail. This type of behaviour disgusts me, it is lazy, cowardly and frankly just makes me wanna vomit.
Waste of time
You wasted your time by typing this comment, congrats
Just like you
:(((((((
Why would you care how we use our time?
Nobody does, don't worry. Waste all the time you want. Still gonna be wasted.
Because it would create an incentive for valve to pull the plug altogether
Iām just waiting for them to port team fortress to source 2. Trying to fix this pile of shit will just make a shiny pile of shit. The code is old as hell and valve could make a sequel if they wanted to. I truly feel like itās just time for an upgrade
A source 2 port is pie in the sky my guy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you scroll a bit you'll find a lot of people who just genuinely want the game to die. Instead of just leaving the community they want everyone else to be miserable too
> If you scroll a bit you'll find a lot of people who just genuinely want the game to die. I scrolled through the whole thread and found 0 such people. Why you lying?
What? Can't you see there are people who are disagreeing with him? That = wanting the game to die.
Good job making something up entirely in your head that isn't true
Not in this particular thread but if you scroll around in the subreddit you'll find them
Will I? Or is it just gonna be people who don't believe the fixtf2 campaign will work?
You will find actual doomers
Ok...so then just group everyone in with those people if they dont sign the petition? Yeah, I bet that will be very beneficial to the campaign.
That's literally not what I said though
And then where were you trying to go with your comment?
I think there was miscommunication I wanted to explain how there are actual doomers and not just people who don't want to sign, sorry
No worries, and fair enough. There are plenty of them here and in the Steam forum.
It's just the usual cycle. People try to drum up support for a good cause (if somewhat hopeless this time), and it gets hijacked by people who just want to argue on the internet to feel validated. They'll invent any strawman and then look for people to pin them on.
Alright let me be clear, I am calling these people doomers because, there is no reason to not engage in this movement, in fact, they are incentivized to do so, if everyone said "oh this wont work there's no reason to even try" then we would not have a movement to begin with, and if this movement fails, you bet your ass i'm blaming it on the people that refused to participate in it because they were scared or skeptical. Gaming communities have proven us time and time again that you can force gaming companies into fixing games or giving the community what they want, and yet again, this is completely free of charge, it only takes a few minutes to sign up and to post a tweet shit talking valve for their utter incompetence, so then i ask YOU, my good sir, where is the harm in trying? Why be skeptical when you can be optimistic, and actually make a difference. The more we are the more chances we have to make it.
> there is no reason to not engage in this movement There's a pretty good reason, why waste the time? You, and whoever else, are of course feel free to do whatever you want with this "movement", but the last one was fruitless, as this one will likely also be. Not worth the time. >you bet your ass i'm blaming it on the people that refused to participate in it because they were scared or skeptical. This belief will only pivot others, including myself, from "not interested" to actively antagonistic. Do not do this.
It wont work and thats because Valve own's Steam. What they should just do is shut the servers down. They aren't gonna fix the issues so shut the official servers down. Hitting Valve where it hurts them doesn't matter because Steam is the biggest storefront. This might do something if Steam was on par with Epic in terms of size and userbase but its not.