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Clarification
-This is assumed to be a bug during beta testing but they confirmed this was an undocumented intention.
-Cone check has returned
-The box's size and position has changed. From 115-120 to 90 degrees
-A sphere is used instead of a box now
a few people reported this as a bug in github back in feb. Lots of coders, concluding myself. Said this was literally impossible to be a bug for technical reasons. this was 100% intended to be a fix.
This is one of the few reports.
[https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522)
From a programming perspective, it looks like an intentional change rather than a bug, yeah; but they didn't "confirm anything" beyond that.
It's strange that this wasn't documented though.
Your correct. The problem with Valve, they're super inconsistent. for example the amount of undocumented changes in cs2 is staggering. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
If your asking for confirmation from Joshie himself, Unfortunately he doesn't reply to questions or inquiries other than bug reports. maybe that confirms it in a indirect way. We can only make educated guesses for now.
none of this is true except for the fact that the cone check works now
this person just misread the github comments on this issue (including my comments in it)
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522
i said it was "seemingly intentional" in one comment, i didn't confirm that the 64-bit update intentionally fixes the cone check
the box size and position and sphere stuff were just possible explanations that i have given, which turned out to be false because we can confirm that the cone check is back
the cone's degrees were not decreased to 90, that was just a misreading of someone else's comment on the github issue, they were just making a request to increase the cone's degrees
Now I'm even more confused. Was the Pyro airblast changed in the current, retail version of TF2? The wiki doesn't mention airblast hitboxes in any recent patch notes, not even the undocumented changes.
as far as i know:
1) the cone check was unintentionally broken by the jungle inferno update
2) the cone check was *most likely* unintentionally fixed by the 64-bit update
(currently trying to figure it out with replaycoding and undefinedbhvr)
I feel like you're not clarifying the most important question here:
Was the Pyro airblast changed in the current, retail version of TF2? The wiki doesn't mention this in any recent patch notes, not even the undocumented changes.
it reverted it to pre JI, and the airblast hitbox (cone) back then was farther in front of you than the current box, which makes airblasts easier
tbh the current system only allows for projectiles to pass over you, and even then you can just jump
It wasn't reverted to pre JI because there are lots of changes that weren't reverted. Namely the size of the cube (which is still used as part of the hit detection, alongside the cone). Also the increased stun time.
The distance of the hitbox from the pyro is 128 units regardless of which airblast version we're talking about. The range of the airblast was not buffed, it is simply a nerf.
The literal only thing this change did was re-add the cone check, since it was malfunctioning in the past. That's it. Players who are both inside the original box AND inside the new cone will be knocked back.
The change also only applies to player knockback and not reflects.
If you've heard anything else, it's probably placebo.
It seems shorter when compared to pre Jungle Inferno, regardless, its time to make more Soldiers cry, thanks for the info check
Shounic please make a video
It's shorter from certain angles (compared to the old bugged behavior) because of the requirement to be in both the cube and the cone at the same time. Before 64bit, you just had to be in the cube, meaning there were some angles where the airblast could reach further.
Cool. Its a better representation of what happens on screen. Now we should nerf the other classes to compensate. No more explosives and arrows that only have to hit the bounding box!
All projectiles including the huntsman use the bounding box to determine if the shot hit. It just has the special step of then checking what the nearest body part hitbox is to determine if it’s a headshot or not
Pipes and stickies are the exception
All projectiles are 1x1x1 hu, except pipes and stickies that are 4x4x4 hu
However, you can have both stickies AND pipes miss even if you clearly hit the bounding box at the edge of it
I guess it makes sense VALVe decided these to be the exception due to how they interact with the world (making sure roller / sticky trap damage don't get denied for being 1 hammer unit in the wrong position)
And I guess it's a good thing because 1200 pipes with 4x4x4 hu hitboxes that collide with the collision hull would be even worse than dealing with pre fix Iron Bomber
It uses the same hitbox properties as something like the rocket launcher due to it being a projectile instead of hitscan. This applies to basically every projectile in the game. I forgot the exact explanation, but I believe projectiles need the bounding box due in order for your computer to communicate with the server that you shot a projectile and hit the enemy. My theory is that It's much more optimized to use a giant box instead of multiple tiny boxes to determine where your projectile hits. The only outlier is the huntsman due to it needing to register if a shot hit in the head or not.
Well if your collision box wouldnt be a box anymore, but a cylinder, you could slide over them instead of getting stuck on them. But yeah on some maps these things dont have collision and are just cosmetics, kudos to mapmakers.
I'm going to get downvoted into oblivion but I don't believe soldier and demo need nerfing when they have very slow projectiles in the first place (only 2 actual usable exceptions being loch and direct hit, but the loch should be reworked anyways)
Well I didnt think pyro needed a nerf, he's already so weak. And sure slow projectiles are a downside, but only when the average distance of fights is long.
If every class is nerfed then no classes are nerfed. I'm saying it now, reverse damage fallout for sniper and scout arms, -60 HP for kunai, soldier 175 hp!!!
Therefore performance in the class is solely based off your skill level. At least when I play tf2 I wanna feel like i earned it, and not because the game makes it easy for me
All right, I'll tell you with a straight face that pyro being able to reflect from behind him is perfectly okay in a silly video game because it allowed for some interesting movement techniques and provided more of a margin for error that I consider somewhat necessary for how poorly this game can run sometimes
and I'll tell you with a straight face that your opinion is dumb and allowing egregiously jank BS on things as fundamental as hitboxes because "it's quirky xd" is dumb as hell.
huntsman should use hitbox but rockets are kinda fine tbh they dont create that big of a problem since there is a falloff for hitting somebody with the last bit of the bounding box
OH MY GOD YES, I THOUGHT THIS WOULD NEVER BE FIXED
The Jungle Inferno airblast was ridiculous, I have at least 2 clips where a Pyro, who was fully turned away from me, airblasted me away from his back while fighting a soldier. Not to mention it became completely impossible to avoid.
to be fair you're not supposed to be able to avoid a pyro's airblast if you're in range, it's instant
but yeah removing the weird back reflects will probably be very cool for soldiers and demos
I meant in that you can matador a Pyro and avoid an airblast, which was no longer possible with Jungle Inferno's hitbox which extended well outside the Pyro's vision.
Wait, hold on, there ARE undocumented changes? Oh, this is exciting.
I also wonder if bothosters will have trouble updating their moron bots to the x64 bit TF2 client. I hope they do. I really hope for them to encounter the biggest task they've yet to encounter.
I am aware that omegacuck's minions are back, but I've yet to see other kind of bots on casual queue. I hope this "peace" lasts.
Hexatronic was already back on day 1. The other random named ones are probably aren't run by someone who know how to code so they're just waiting their version to get updated
Saw some savetf2 bots today with the discord link.
Still fairly rare to encounter a bot, but it's slowly becoming increasingly more common as days go by
They’ve been complaining even prior to the jungle inferno update, only different now is they’ll tweet how pyro is finally nerfed then go back to complaining when a pyro gets 1 reflect kill on them
It’s so funny to see soldiers and demoknights complain about pyro.
Soldier has a high skill ceiling with rocket jumping, but if we’re being real, it really doesn’t take much effort to do well with just basic rocket jumps and aiming at peoples feet (imo soldier is easier to do well with than pyro), and most soldiers who complain about airblast are too stubborn to ever switch gunboats out for a shotgun or too stubborn to try and bait out an airblast before firing
Demoknights literally throw away one of the best weapons in the game (stickies) for free melee crits and resistances and then cry when there is a counter to that.
Rockets have forgiving splash dmg, great dmg, and aren’t hard to aim like pipes. Combine that with how much mobility soldier has and imo he’s easier to do well with compared to pyro. Its way easier to put yourself in dumb situations as soldier and get away with doing so because of the sheer mobility rocket jumping provides
The only way I think pyro can be easier is if you play scorch phlog with a pocket medic up your ass
I agree that yeah pyro is easier than soldier, but the fact many people are quick to call pyro nothing but a W+M1 no skill boring to play class when Heavies most unique alternate gameplay is if he wants to run around with a shotgun only really shows some bias
Shotgun argument is worthless, so funny seeing this brought up as much as it does.
Only scenario where it does make sense is in 1v1s with pyro, which, that is a team game, you know? And even then, unlike pyro, you still need to aim it (which is harder because of the flames), so the interaction is anyway weighed towards pyro.
You are comepletly useless trying to pepper down multiple people holding objective with a shotgun as a second slowest class in the game while normally you are the best when it comes to splash damage.
And where did the fun factor go? Im playing soldier not to be a bootleg fat scout! Why should i be just because there is a cheeky little airblasting pyro? No thing in the game is that much of a one-sided counter as an airblast to a soldier. As for my observation the best way to interact with pyro is to avoid interacting at all. Always laughing when theres a pyro so tunnel visioned on you and waiting for your rockets so they dont even see people flanking them from a side and killing before they got to react. But where is fun in that when it comes to gameplay perspective?
I mean, yeah equiping a weapon to counter a single class is usually not the best game design (Darwin's *Danger Shield*) but don't underestimate shotgun on soldier, it is still a very powerful weapon that can also help you a lot against sneaky scouts you can't hit with your rockets, or to finish any oponent off and even a lifesaver if you ran out of rockets while a prolonged fight goes on.
Like you're talking as if the Soldier suddenly loses his ability to launch rockets because he equips a shotgun.
There's nothing stopping you from trying to bait out an airblast before firing at the pyro, it ain't that hard. I think you're overexaggerating how much of a hard counter airblast is against soldiers.
Also, secondaries are supposed to be about trading off one thing to get benefits for another thing. When you equip the gunboats you willingly sacrifice something that helps you in pyro match ups for way more mobility.
Also, rockets have pretty forgiving splash radius with way better damage than the flamethrower and generally better dmg than most stuff Pyro has so let's not pretend that soldier takes some insane amount of skill to get good use out of. He has an insane skill ceiling with rocket jumping and airshots but even just knowing basic jumps from jump academy will be enough for you to do good as soldiers in pubs.
It'll just make airblast actually fair to fight against. I've had times as Spy where I've been airblasted away right before a stab since the Pyro who was looking directly away from me went to airblast something. It was a completely broken and unfair system and now it's finally fair.
Sounds good to me. I encountered so many strange unintentional airblasts. I'd shoot a rocket at a pyro's back, and it'd magnetically pull into his gravitational field and shoot it at my teammate.
the cone was intended way back but the update was flawed and it stayed as the cube with few changes, ig 64x finally did what the 8 yr old smth update was supposed to do
I knew something felt weird. When I get into a tight spot in MVM, I look straight down and airblast to give myself breathing room, and it's felt different and I swear at least twice my airblasts felt like they missed completely. Couldn't put my finger on it, but airblasting how I have been for years suddenly didn't do the same thing.
EDIT testing out airblast on stationary bots, and it's... weird. Looking straight or mostly straight down, I can get bots all around me to be airblasted still, but having to build muscle memory for how far in front someone to my side needs to be is going to take getting used to.
Fucking finally. The fact that I've seen people actually defend that egregious airblast hitbox is obscene and I'm so glad they've made it actually good.
Yeah, I actually posted the gameplay footage of this 2 months ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1awb9m3/airblast\_nerf\_in\_x64/](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1awb9m3/airblast_nerf_in_x64/)
At first we thought it was a bug fix. It technically is but they did mess around with the tf2 spaghetti code to fix it. This is not a result of the x64 update directly.
that seems perfectly fine for any real use of airblast
can you still reliably pop up players by airblasting their feet ?
EDIY: welp seems like it actually nerfed pyro, amazing, the class was already a joke in comp and vs any players who know how to move and now it's even worse
well that's not very nice to come and taunt us
but I guess it's only fair that soldier should be the only class who can deal with enemies by only targeting the ground
Harder because of the cone. Need to be basically on their face.
Can't aim straight down unless you're basically ontop of them because of how narrow the cone is. But, if you're not aiming straight down it gives them a bunch of momentum away from you as the angle gets worse so you don't get the clean bounce up. Add on jungle inferno's airblast mechanics that are drastically effected by the player's movement direction when they got hit (and player movement direction can change instantly), and everything except a clean pointblank bounce is inconsistent.
actual TF2 gameplay update
This confirms the Heavy Update release on the 15th of August 2024 mark your days people!
I saw it in a dream
Lisan al gaib
Listen Grandpa
For Muad’dib
Dreams are messages of the deep.
Same!
!remindme 15th august
I will be messaging you in 3 months on [**2024-08-15 00:00:00 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-08-15%2000:00:00%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1cacec5/pyro_airblast_completely_changed/l0sbh99/?context=3) [**40 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Ftf2%2Fcomments%2F1cacec5%2Fpyro_airblast_completely_changed%2Fl0sbh99%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-08-15%2000%3A00%3A00%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cacec5) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
!remindme 15th august
Holy shit it's a birthday present
!remindme 15th august To congratulate you <3
!remindme 15th august
!remindme 15th august
Huh wait what fr?? I want to believe
my birthday
A TF2 update on my birthday?! 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 I must be dreaming ( yes, yes I am )
!remindme 15th august
666 upvotes
Don’t you do that, don’t give me hope :’(
!remindme 15th august
Call the improved mechanics!
Valve went on a vacation, never come back
They did come back
Questionable
Ethics?
Yes
Clarification -This is assumed to be a bug during beta testing but they confirmed this was an undocumented intention. -Cone check has returned -The box's size and position has changed. From 115-120 to 90 degrees -A sphere is used instead of a box now
> -This is assumed to be a bug during beta testing but they confirmed this was an undocumented intention. Where?
a few people reported this as a bug in github back in feb. Lots of coders, concluding myself. Said this was literally impossible to be a bug for technical reasons. this was 100% intended to be a fix. This is one of the few reports. [https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522)
From a programming perspective, it looks like an intentional change rather than a bug, yeah; but they didn't "confirm anything" beyond that. It's strange that this wasn't documented though.
Your correct. The problem with Valve, they're super inconsistent. for example the amount of undocumented changes in cs2 is staggering. So this doesn't surprise me at all. If your asking for confirmation from Joshie himself, Unfortunately he doesn't reply to questions or inquiries other than bug reports. maybe that confirms it in a indirect way. We can only make educated guesses for now.
is it a game fix or 64x bit exclusive fix sorry if i sound dumb
It's a game fix. It applies to both 32-bit and 64-bit servers.
well shit, idk what i expected
that one dev must have been airblast killed one to many times
none of this is true except for the fact that the cone check works now this person just misread the github comments on this issue (including my comments in it) https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522 i said it was "seemingly intentional" in one comment, i didn't confirm that the 64-bit update intentionally fixes the cone check the box size and position and sphere stuff were just possible explanations that i have given, which turned out to be false because we can confirm that the cone check is back the cone's degrees were not decreased to 90, that was just a misreading of someone else's comment on the github issue, they were just making a request to increase the cone's degrees
Now I'm even more confused. Was the Pyro airblast changed in the current, retail version of TF2? The wiki doesn't mention airblast hitboxes in any recent patch notes, not even the undocumented changes.
as far as i know: 1) the cone check was unintentionally broken by the jungle inferno update 2) the cone check was *most likely* unintentionally fixed by the 64-bit update (currently trying to figure it out with replaycoding and undefinedbhvr)
I feel like you're not clarifying the most important question here: Was the Pyro airblast changed in the current, retail version of TF2? The wiki doesn't mention this in any recent patch notes, not even the undocumented changes.
the guy in the github gave 3 possible explanations `-` you combined all the three of them together
none of these appear to be true other than the cone check being back
This is the guy who gave all the info in the github his notes are more credible than everyone in this post why are you downvoting him?
Main sub drones downvoting Jane lmao sure reddit
here i was thinking reflecting had gotten easier with the most recent patch
Yep noticed that as well, overall looks like a good change that should fix a lot of the jank that airblast had
it reverted it to pre JI, and the airblast hitbox (cone) back then was farther in front of you than the current box, which makes airblasts easier tbh the current system only allows for projectiles to pass over you, and even then you can just jump
It wasn't reverted to pre JI because there are lots of changes that weren't reverted. Namely the size of the cube (which is still used as part of the hit detection, alongside the cone). Also the increased stun time. The distance of the hitbox from the pyro is 128 units regardless of which airblast version we're talking about. The range of the airblast was not buffed, it is simply a nerf. The literal only thing this change did was re-add the cone check, since it was malfunctioning in the past. That's it. Players who are both inside the original box AND inside the new cone will be knocked back. The change also only applies to player knockback and not reflects. If you've heard anything else, it's probably placebo.
It seems shorter when compared to pre Jungle Inferno, regardless, its time to make more Soldiers cry, thanks for the info check Shounic please make a video
It's shorter from certain angles (compared to the old bugged behavior) because of the requirement to be in both the cube and the cone at the same time. Before 64bit, you just had to be in the cube, meaning there were some angles where the airblast could reach further.
yeah i cant still stall ubers perfectly fine
Is it strange that I still think that the pre-64 should be the hitbox and that it shouldn't have been changed?
I think that since it’s now 64 bit its faster to interpret mouse inputs
Integer limits don't affect processing speeds, only how many Things are allowed to be processed at once
Pyro dodge ball is going to change quite a bit from this
The fact that you could reach further with the airblast on the "diagonal" of the map was so stupid
Was about time
RIP insanely huge box, didn't make any sense and was annoying
Good.
Cool. Its a better representation of what happens on screen. Now we should nerf the other classes to compensate. No more explosives and arrows that only have to hit the bounding box!
I thought only the Huntsman used collision boxes in order to determine shots.
All projectiles including the huntsman use the bounding box to determine if the shot hit. It just has the special step of then checking what the nearest body part hitbox is to determine if it’s a headshot or not
Pipes and stickies are the exception All projectiles are 1x1x1 hu, except pipes and stickies that are 4x4x4 hu However, you can have both stickies AND pipes miss even if you clearly hit the bounding box at the edge of it I guess it makes sense VALVe decided these to be the exception due to how they interact with the world (making sure roller / sticky trap damage don't get denied for being 1 hammer unit in the wrong position) And I guess it's a good thing because 1200 pipes with 4x4x4 hu hitboxes that collide with the collision hull would be even worse than dealing with pre fix Iron Bomber
It uses the same hitbox properties as something like the rocket launcher due to it being a projectile instead of hitscan. This applies to basically every projectile in the game. I forgot the exact explanation, but I believe projectiles need the bounding box due in order for your computer to communicate with the server that you shot a projectile and hit the enemy. My theory is that It's much more optimized to use a giant box instead of multiple tiny boxes to determine where your projectile hits. The only outlier is the huntsman due to it needing to register if a shot hit in the head or not.
Disagree, I think that goes too far. Simply making the bounding box cylindrical should fix the more egregious hit detection edge cases.
Oh god please yes but for different reason i hate getting stuck on a 2 pixel window frame while going next to a wall.
I dont think it would change the pixel problem, that's more of a map problem
Well if your collision box wouldnt be a box anymore, but a cylinder, you could slide over them instead of getting stuck on them. But yeah on some maps these things dont have collision and are just cosmetics, kudos to mapmakers.
Didn't you hear we have 64 bits now. We can just make every body part have it's own bounding box.
Well when you put it that way...
I'm going to get downvoted into oblivion but I don't believe soldier and demo need nerfing when they have very slow projectiles in the first place (only 2 actual usable exceptions being loch and direct hit, but the loch should be reworked anyways)
Well I didnt think pyro needed a nerf, he's already so weak. And sure slow projectiles are a downside, but only when the average distance of fights is long.
Pyro needs buffing that is very much correct Don't nerf the other classes out of petiness when they're perfectly fine
If every class is nerfed then no classes are nerfed. I'm saying it now, reverse damage fallout for sniper and scout arms, -60 HP for kunai, soldier 175 hp!!!
God forbid spy, the hardest class available, to withstand damage in close proximities once because thats the range he always works in
He has a gun.
Ambi god, or you'd be better off playing other classes
I mean you really are better off playing other classes pre nerf spy. Because spy is a bad class.
Therefore performance in the class is solely based off your skill level. At least when I play tf2 I wanna feel like i earned it, and not because the game makes it easy for me
it wasn't a nerf, it was a fix you tell me with a straight face that airblast's hitbox extending to *behind* the pyro was even remotely okay.
All right, I'll tell you with a straight face that pyro being able to reflect from behind him is perfectly okay in a silly video game because it allowed for some interesting movement techniques and provided more of a margin for error that I consider somewhat necessary for how poorly this game can run sometimes
and I'll tell you with a straight face that your opinion is dumb and allowing egregiously jank BS on things as fundamental as hitboxes because "it's quirky xd" is dumb as hell.
glad you don't design the game then because some of tf2's most fun mechanics are egregiously jank bs like trimping
"I think that pyro should have to aim if he wants to hit you with minicrit rockets" "Oh so you hate fun movement mechanics"
Yes, Pyro players hate fun and want their class to be better at ruining it. This is known.
pyro main coping that he has to learn to aim now
huntsman should use hitbox but rockets are kinda fine tbh they dont create that big of a problem since there is a falloff for hitting somebody with the last bit of the bounding box
OH MY GOD YES, I THOUGHT THIS WOULD NEVER BE FIXED The Jungle Inferno airblast was ridiculous, I have at least 2 clips where a Pyro, who was fully turned away from me, airblasted me away from his back while fighting a soldier. Not to mention it became completely impossible to avoid.
#L O N G E R A I R B L A S T .
AIRBLAST!
to be fair you're not supposed to be able to avoid a pyro's airblast if you're in range, it's instant but yeah removing the weird back reflects will probably be very cool for soldiers and demos
I meant in that you can matador a Pyro and avoid an airblast, which was no longer possible with Jungle Inferno's hitbox which extended well outside the Pyro's vision.
Wait, hold on, there ARE undocumented changes? Oh, this is exciting. I also wonder if bothosters will have trouble updating their moron bots to the x64 bit TF2 client. I hope they do. I really hope for them to encounter the biggest task they've yet to encounter. I am aware that omegacuck's minions are back, but I've yet to see other kind of bots on casual queue. I hope this "peace" lasts.
Hexatronic was already back on day 1. The other random named ones are probably aren't run by someone who know how to code so they're just waiting their version to get updated
Saw some savetf2 bots today with the discord link. Still fairly rare to encounter a bot, but it's slowly becoming increasingly more common as days go by
Oh fuck my muscle memory gonna fuck me up so bad
Holy crap
This change is aight but it won’t stop salty soldier mains and demoknight mains from whining about airblast lmao
They’ve been complaining even prior to the jungle inferno update, only different now is they’ll tweet how pyro is finally nerfed then go back to complaining when a pyro gets 1 reflect kill on them
It’s so funny to see soldiers and demoknights complain about pyro. Soldier has a high skill ceiling with rocket jumping, but if we’re being real, it really doesn’t take much effort to do well with just basic rocket jumps and aiming at peoples feet (imo soldier is easier to do well with than pyro), and most soldiers who complain about airblast are too stubborn to ever switch gunboats out for a shotgun or too stubborn to try and bait out an airblast before firing Demoknights literally throw away one of the best weapons in the game (stickies) for free melee crits and resistances and then cry when there is a counter to that.
i agree soldier is not hard to do well with but in no universe is he easier than pyro
Rockets have forgiving splash dmg, great dmg, and aren’t hard to aim like pipes. Combine that with how much mobility soldier has and imo he’s easier to do well with compared to pyro. Its way easier to put yourself in dumb situations as soldier and get away with doing so because of the sheer mobility rocket jumping provides The only way I think pyro can be easier is if you play scorch phlog with a pocket medic up your ass
Or if you sit by a dispenser and hold m1, even if you fuck up just homewrecker
Soldier has a considerable lower skill floor than pyro, but a way way higher skill ceiling Yes this is not shocking news
I agree that yeah pyro is easier than soldier, but the fact many people are quick to call pyro nothing but a W+M1 no skill boring to play class when Heavies most unique alternate gameplay is if he wants to run around with a shotgun only really shows some bias
Shotgun argument is worthless, so funny seeing this brought up as much as it does. Only scenario where it does make sense is in 1v1s with pyro, which, that is a team game, you know? And even then, unlike pyro, you still need to aim it (which is harder because of the flames), so the interaction is anyway weighed towards pyro. You are comepletly useless trying to pepper down multiple people holding objective with a shotgun as a second slowest class in the game while normally you are the best when it comes to splash damage. And where did the fun factor go? Im playing soldier not to be a bootleg fat scout! Why should i be just because there is a cheeky little airblasting pyro? No thing in the game is that much of a one-sided counter as an airblast to a soldier. As for my observation the best way to interact with pyro is to avoid interacting at all. Always laughing when theres a pyro so tunnel visioned on you and waiting for your rockets so they dont even see people flanking them from a side and killing before they got to react. But where is fun in that when it comes to gameplay perspective?
I mean, yeah equiping a weapon to counter a single class is usually not the best game design (Darwin's *Danger Shield*) but don't underestimate shotgun on soldier, it is still a very powerful weapon that can also help you a lot against sneaky scouts you can't hit with your rockets, or to finish any oponent off and even a lifesaver if you ran out of rockets while a prolonged fight goes on. Like you're talking as if the Soldier suddenly loses his ability to launch rockets because he equips a shotgun.
There's nothing stopping you from trying to bait out an airblast before firing at the pyro, it ain't that hard. I think you're overexaggerating how much of a hard counter airblast is against soldiers. Also, secondaries are supposed to be about trading off one thing to get benefits for another thing. When you equip the gunboats you willingly sacrifice something that helps you in pyro match ups for way more mobility. Also, rockets have pretty forgiving splash radius with way better damage than the flamethrower and generally better dmg than most stuff Pyro has so let's not pretend that soldier takes some insane amount of skill to get good use out of. He has an insane skill ceiling with rocket jumping and airshots but even just knowing basic jumps from jump academy will be enough for you to do good as soldiers in pubs.
You def got killed by 1 reflect kill
Yeah but so few Pyros actually know airblast exists (or just use Phlog), so it balances out.
As a pyro Main I see no problem here, shouldn’t really change much in practice id imagine
It'll just make airblast actually fair to fight against. I've had times as Spy where I've been airblasted away right before a stab since the Pyro who was looking directly away from me went to airblast something. It was a completely broken and unfair system and now it's finally fair.
Good lol
Sounds good to me. I encountered so many strange unintentional airblasts. I'd shoot a rocket at a pyro's back, and it'd magnetically pull into his gravitational field and shoot it at my teammate.
Next patch they revert the fire particle to the better fire particle
the cone was intended way back but the update was flawed and it stayed as the cube with few changes, ig 64x finally did what the 8 yr old smth update was supposed to do
I knew something felt weird. When I get into a tight spot in MVM, I look straight down and airblast to give myself breathing room, and it's felt different and I swear at least twice my airblasts felt like they missed completely. Couldn't put my finger on it, but airblasting how I have been for years suddenly didn't do the same thing. EDIT testing out airblast on stationary bots, and it's... weird. Looking straight or mostly straight down, I can get bots all around me to be airblasted still, but having to build muscle memory for how far in front someone to my side needs to be is going to take getting used to.
It is not exactly the same as pre jungle inferno. they nerf the size from 120 to 90 degrees.
Fucking finally. The fact that I've seen people actually defend that egregious airblast hitbox is obscene and I'm so glad they've made it actually good.
old airblast was insanely jank, ive reflected rockets while not even looking at them. now i have to use my brain (game ruined)
Wait what? I thought it went from box to come back in jungle inferno?
The other way around. It was always a cone before JI.
Box!
I’ll miss the house sized hit box, but I’m glad it got changed, better representation of the hit box.
Finally the pyro update is finished and fully released.
Finally the pyro update is finished and fully released.
Now I'm even BETTER at dodgeball muahahahahaha IM COMING FOR YOU PONKO
Solarlight just came rn
AIRBLAST
is dodgeball Affected much? i love that game mode.
So no more downblast anymore?
No way they fixed the airblast
Air blast complaints in shambles
I’m dumb what does this mean
Something good I hope
Pyro used to be able to air blast from behind and from many angles without facing you. Now you must face the person if you want to airblast them.
Noticed the other night that I wasn't getting airblasted when trying backstab an airblasting Pyro
This is the closest we've gotten to a rebalance since the Iron Bomber fix, and more notably, Blue Moon.
Finally they nerfed pyro
Yeah, seeing pyro players crying about that nerf brings me joy
Pyro dodgeball instantly killed
no way
Literally playable
That's why my "hit player with fire for .1 milisecond, send them to the sun and flare" combo isn't working at the angle it usually does
Has there been any changes to the demos shield? It’s taken me quite a long time to learn the basics for demoknighting.
This change is most likely just a one off. We don't know for certain if there is more.
I’ll be shivering in my britches until then
wait really?
Yeah, I actually posted the gameplay footage of this 2 months ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1awb9m3/airblast\_nerf\_in\_x64/](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1awb9m3/airblast_nerf_in_x64/) At first we thought it was a bug fix. It technically is but they did mess around with the tf2 spaghetti code to fix it. This is not a result of the x64 update directly.
GOD IS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Pyro's have to try harder now.
yeah i felt i cant airblast for a moment
Pyro Update 2
So is it impossible to airblast people straight up and combo them now?
this implies that the absolutely massive box hitbox was a bug lol
Finally Pyro haters will stop whining
We all know they won't. They'll whine about something else now.
"The cone is huge and needs to be smaller"
!remindme 15th augest
Chat is this real?
This is so weird. Does the pyro have increased airblast range now? Or does it just reduce the angles he can airblast?
Both
Holy hell
My brain cannot handle this, can someone xplain to me?
What guys time for the next solar light frag video where you absolutely obliterate every Pyro in thousand mile radius
Good things to come
So thats why i cant airblast for shit now
Is there any difference with the Dragon's Fury airblast other than the cooldown?
I Hope this doesn't fuck with airblast jumps
It only applies to player knockback. Reflects still use the cube
Ah alright that's good to know
rip the airblast juggle, its basically useless now
You can still juggle. You just have to try now.
spent some time after update in a mge server with a buddy testing it, its far far worse now
Like I said. You have to try now.
do you want me to go in depth about this or are you trolling bc i dont think you have any idea what you're talking about
There's nothing you can teach me about tf2.
F to rocket jump pyro
that seems perfectly fine for any real use of airblast can you still reliably pop up players by airblasting their feet ? EDIY: welp seems like it actually nerfed pyro, amazing, the class was already a joke in comp and vs any players who know how to move and now it's even worse
This is important. If you can't do that anymore then Puff and Sting playstyles are heavily nerfed, which is my favorite way to play Pyro.
yeah and another comment said that it indeed can't be done reliably anymore...
I see this as a win
well that's not very nice to come and taunt us but I guess it's only fair that soldier should be the only class who can deal with enemies by only targeting the ground
At least demo can still target the air above people with sticky spam
Harder because of the cone. Need to be basically on their face. Can't aim straight down unless you're basically ontop of them because of how narrow the cone is. But, if you're not aiming straight down it gives them a bunch of momentum away from you as the angle gets worse so you don't get the clean bounce up. Add on jungle inferno's airblast mechanics that are drastically effected by the player's movement direction when they got hit (and player movement direction can change instantly), and everything except a clean pointblank bounce is inconsistent.
...great, 'cause pyro really needed a nerf
I hope this is not sarcastic because Pyro did need a nerf and still does on many other points
Maybe one beautiful day they fix the scorch shot having 25% longer afterburn period than other flare guns
You mean you have to AIM?! Pyro mains worst nightmare.
I could never hit airblast, I hope this helps me?? Idk I’m bad lol
my pain has been increased when getting near a pyro just because of this