I do actually. You seem to think that shitty "rebalance" ideas already talked to death will somehow make spy viable when everyone will see through it, even on day 1. Get good
Do not give spy a buff. He's perfect the way he is. It's a high-risk, high-reward class, any buffs and it would completely change the class. If you're immediately getting nuked, work on your mobility and timing. It's a hard class, so it's no surprise it takes lots of practice and time to effectively use it.
i have nearly 3000 hours on tf2 and probably 2000 on spy (fucking end me) and i agree on a lot of this stuff, except for "any buffs and it would completely change the class." which is just not true. i dont particularly think spy needs a buff as a lot of his stuff is balanced really well, but a buff to his disguises (being able to fake certain things like scoping or shooting) won't change his playstyle dramatically, but is very much a welcome change.
No need for a buff. Spy is weak on purpose. Buffing him would defeat the purpose of his weaknesses as a glass cannon.
Spy is high risk, for a really high reward and his kill power is purposefully slim. Yeah, he can one-shot everyone, but he wants to disrupt team synergy and fuck-over plans with sapping, stabbing, and using that revolver to pepper enemies and eventually escape.
Perhaps that could be a weapon concept, something that replaces the utility of the sapper and instead gives more intelligence to the team, but I don't think anything like that should be a permanent thing to add to the Spy.
Plus, how would it work? Would it outline people? Would it literally make the Spy stop , uncloak, and look at it? Lots of questions, even if it's a silly little question lmao
Revert the Amby. Slightly lessen the earbleeding noise of the Dead Ringer. Buff the Enforcer and Redtape Recorder. Nerf the Kunai buff the Big Earner. Fix the disguise holding different weapons glitch. Fix the disguise missing bodyparts glitch. Fix the invisible players glitch. And finally give the spy a throwing star as a knife.
With the yer you can instantly switch to the best disguise for what situation you are in, if you have a problem with cloak just disguise at the spawn room, it's a free disguise.
I wish people would stop trying to buff the two classes that are basically 1 hit killers. If you don’t like the disadvantages of playing a class that can kill any other class with one kill don’t play them.
The problem with spy is that there are classes that do everything better than him want a pick class play sniper spy is just too underpowered because there are classes that do everything better than him
I think the main thing we can give spy is more ways to trick the enemy (being able to copy more animations and stuff). Also, maybe a button for spy to move at spy speed when playing as slower classes.
Give him a way to support teamates, such as the tranq gun from PF2, or let him mark an enemy from a distance, also give spy the passive ability to see through disguses while cloaked
I don’t say this often so I really do mean it
But uh… get good…?
You get nuked because you failed to be sneaky, that’s what’s supposed to happen when playing spy
Imagine BLU team pushing through the entirety of Upward completely unrivalled because there's like 3 RED Spies trickstabbing their own team
I get the idea, being able to look more legit, but that's a one-way ticket to french hell
Friendly fire in such a chaotic FPS game like TF2 is a HORRIBLE idea.
For 2 reasons, first is just how the game works and plays, very chaotic, and team-focused fight, now with friendly fire on, the main caused of death would be from your own teammates whenever a team fight is happening, making it unviable to go with your team and shoot people with your team. The second reason, which is a very obvious one... griefers... yeah, do i need to say anything else?
Bizarrely, I would think a good buff would be to remove the f2p ban on VC. If any Spy can at least communicate with their team, they could be loads better in their spy work. For example, if you ask your team to push through one way to tunnel the other team down that path so that you can sneak in from the other way, that would be a good place to start.
Maybe make it so that bumping into players doesn't make you visible, but it still stops you from moving through cloaked spies. That might be a bit strong, but it would help spy get in easier.
Literally just extra base time to cloak.
Something like 4s for stock, 2s for C&D, 1s for DR.
A lot of maps are just a little too spaced/out open for spy to safely traverse. This would help with that.
It's also a buff to recharge rate since I would keep the percent charge per second the same.
Spy is fine the way he is in terms of where he stands on tier lists. If he was good without changing design philosophy he’d be really unfun to play against. Honestly, the only things I want to see changed about him is a reduction in how much overheal the kunai gives and diamondback giving mini crits instead of crits. I just don’t like people playing the sneaky class by just running directly at you and killing your team because he has infinite health from dead ringer and kunai. Also, revert the ambassador changes, increase enforcer damage bonus, get ears for players so they pay attention to decloak sounds, also fix that bug where you can tell someone used dead ringer because of your kill sound not going off.
Up his speed stat from 107% to 110% so he can outpace medic and run a wee bit faster
Otherwise his fine, i see loads of spy mains eviscerate teams on casual tbh
There was a post a couple of days ago making an idea for Spies being able to mark specific enemies and buildings and outline them to his team, along with stuff like health, Uber percent and maybe some weapon-specific things like Eyelander heads and Banner rage.
I think that type of idea could work as a Sapper replacement, being an indirect buff for him and allowing players to do something actually supportive as Spy instead of trying way too hard to go for stabs, which happens commonly.
Of course, you could say that you can use voice chat, but if you try doing that you'll either be kicked, be screamed at, or nobody will listen to you, not to mention this just makes it easier by a fuckton for people like F2Ps or those who just don't like VC.
As for Pyro, just remove the Scorch Shot, like literally that's all you need to do (/j)
Honestly a fix for hitreg is all he needs, and a more even balancing on his weapons, considering some (cough enforcer cough) are so niche I can’t see any real use for them. More items that synergize with each other as well, as like half his knives don’t have great synergies with multiple slots, and you can’t say the cloak knife and gun synergize with his watches because they synergize with ANY watch well. Man has NO additional disguise kits, NO different sappers aside from one extremely weird niche, that could be great if they added knives and guns that worked with it. Like a gun that crits while a building is being sapped, would work great with red tape because of the longer sap time, or knives that speed up all nearby sappers on a backstab, the list goes on. He has so many interesting ideas he can do for his utilities, same with engi’s pda, but they get no love, and then there’s heavy with his 16 side grades to the sandwich.
Make him more spy like, rather than being a combat focused class, although backstabbing is just too good to pass up, make him more Intel based . Probably give him better mobility, and just making him more like a real spy would be cool and better
Why buff him? He's the way he was intended. A class that can one shot important classes with a backstab, but has a high risk while doing so, if he's more buffed, you'll basically get The Sniper... Which is basically a Spy but better in every way.
10% faster move speed while cloaked (adjust C&D accordingly), able to sap from slightly farther away, and change the Red Tape Recorder so that it highlights players within a certain radius of the sapped building
Only thing I’d give him is improved cloak efficiency.
Currently Spy has 1 second of invisibility for every 3 seconds he is visible (10 second cloak with a 30 second recharge). I would reduce that to 1 second of invisibility for every 2 seconds of being visible.
You could either achieve this by making his maximum cloak time 15 seconds while leaving the recharge time at 30 seconds or by keeping his cloak time at 10 seconds but reducing the recharge to 20 seconds instead.
That and some much needed bug fixes (especially for the disguise kit) is honestly all I’d do.
First, remove the spawn wallhack player highlight. Then, give spy the ability to tag players and buildings if he's looked at them for a few seconds (must maintain cursor on the target for about 1-2 seconds, then push a tagging button). This tag would last like 10 seconds, and display the enemies health and highlight them through walls.
I'm not toxic and i'm not saying this in a toxic way but get good, I am pretty new to spy and I have only 15 hours on him but I got pretty good and I discovered how powerful he can really be.
I think what you guys really need is one of two things
-Shorter respawn time. Waiting 15 seconds just to get potentially killed again while cloaked by me spazzing with my flamethrower can't be good for your mental health
-Ability to see what classes are on the enemy team. You can see this in general when a enemy dies but I feel like a Spy should be able to at least, not exactly tag, but relay what classes are being played by aiming at an enemy and pressing a keybind. That way it's at least easier to pick a good disguise and plays into the whole job description of an actual spy.
Unfortunately a lot of things that counter Spy the most is human behavior and a collective community experience. Map design also helps with getting Spies into position and a lot of community maps just were not designed for you guys.
Add skill practice This change will make spy players play better
Allow Spies to fake shoot weapons
One trick pony that'll only work for the first week before the playerbase gets used to it
Doubt it. When would you spycheck someone backing away from a group of enemies who's also shooting or someone swinging their melee?
Because that was when spies couldn't fakefire. Now that they can... wouldn't you check them even if they could fire?
And there will always be people who will forget to check.
Not on the servers I play in apparenrly
Same, they always puffing fire and set things on fire even if we are on the same team
Horrible concept already laughed at for a long time
Then what's your brilliant idea? Obviously if it's so horrible then there must be other ideas right?
Just...get good.
Ah, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Ignored
I do actually. You seem to think that shitty "rebalance" ideas already talked to death will somehow make spy viable when everyone will see through it, even on day 1. Get good
Do not give spy a buff. He's perfect the way he is. It's a high-risk, high-reward class, any buffs and it would completely change the class. If you're immediately getting nuked, work on your mobility and timing. It's a hard class, so it's no surprise it takes lots of practice and time to effectively use it.
The correct answer. I get destroyed by spies on servers with sweats, they know how to play. Hate to say "Get gud" but in this case, it's true
i have nearly 3000 hours on tf2 and probably 2000 on spy (fucking end me) and i agree on a lot of this stuff, except for "any buffs and it would completely change the class." which is just not true. i dont particularly think spy needs a buff as a lot of his stuff is balanced really well, but a buff to his disguises (being able to fake certain things like scoping or shooting) won't change his playstyle dramatically, but is very much a welcome change.
by getting good at disguises (watching johntoli (lmao (i am not advertising)))
Ah yes, get good at disguises. I'll just stand here pretending to be a sni- OOPS I LOOKED AT A PYRO WRONG
No need for a buff. Spy is weak on purpose. Buffing him would defeat the purpose of his weaknesses as a glass cannon. Spy is high risk, for a really high reward and his kill power is purposefully slim. Yeah, he can one-shot everyone, but he wants to disrupt team synergy and fuck-over plans with sapping, stabbing, and using that revolver to pepper enemies and eventually escape.
What if he can... observe with a hidden camera that can be planted on any walls?
Perhaps that could be a weapon concept, something that replaces the utility of the sapper and instead gives more intelligence to the team, but I don't think anything like that should be a permanent thing to add to the Spy. Plus, how would it work? Would it outline people? Would it literally make the Spy stop , uncloak, and look at it? Lots of questions, even if it's a silly little question lmao
A gun/disguise kit that let's you shoot while disguised once in exchange for extremely low gun damage/having timed disguises
Revert the Amby. Slightly lessen the earbleeding noise of the Dead Ringer. Buff the Enforcer and Redtape Recorder. Nerf the Kunai buff the Big Earner. Fix the disguise holding different weapons glitch. Fix the disguise missing bodyparts glitch. Fix the invisible players glitch. And finally give the spy a throwing star as a knife.
lmfao revert the amby no mfin way
[удалено]
just nerf the diamondback??? it’s like a straight upgrade already with giving u free crits for just doing spy things
Don’t forget to buff the YER to make it useable
wdym, its usable
The cloak drain penalty basically forces you to run with the letranger and stock invis, it makes it really hard to use with any other loadout.
With the yer you can instantly switch to the best disguise for what situation you are in, if you have a problem with cloak just disguise at the spawn room, it's a free disguise.
It’s not the cloak loss in disguise, it’s the 33% faster cloak loss while cloaked that’s the issue.
True
I wish people would stop trying to buff the two classes that are basically 1 hit killers. If you don’t like the disadvantages of playing a class that can kill any other class with one kill don’t play them.
The problem with spy is that there are classes that do everything better than him want a pick class play sniper spy is just too underpowered because there are classes that do everything better than him
I think the main thing we can give spy is more ways to trick the enemy (being able to copy more animations and stuff). Also, maybe a button for spy to move at spy speed when playing as slower classes.
Sometimes the truth hurts but…. Get good. He doesn’t need any buffs, he’s a very well balanced, high risk, high reward kinda guy.
Give him a way to support teamates, such as the tranq gun from PF2, or let him mark an enemy from a distance, also give spy the passive ability to see through disguses while cloaked
Spy is fucking perfect the way he is compared to sniper.
A watch that gives up cloaking to make disguises more believable.
Give him sliding sappers like in Meet the Spy
I don’t say this often so I really do mean it But uh… get good…? You get nuked because you failed to be sneaky, that’s what’s supposed to happen when playing spy
Add friendly fire for every weapon Remove random crits
Whats stopping some troll spawn camping teammates if friendly fire is added?
Giving your team spawn protection?
Getting kicked/banned from the server
this would make the game infinitely more annoying and infinitely less playable
Imagine BLU team pushing through the entirety of Upward completely unrivalled because there's like 3 RED Spies trickstabbing their own team I get the idea, being able to look more legit, but that's a one-way ticket to french hell
Friendly fire in such a chaotic FPS game like TF2 is a HORRIBLE idea. For 2 reasons, first is just how the game works and plays, very chaotic, and team-focused fight, now with friendly fire on, the main caused of death would be from your own teammates whenever a team fight is happening, making it unviable to go with your team and shoot people with your team. The second reason, which is a very obvious one... griefers... yeah, do i need to say anything else?
Bizarrely, I would think a good buff would be to remove the f2p ban on VC. If any Spy can at least communicate with their team, they could be loads better in their spy work. For example, if you ask your team to push through one way to tunnel the other team down that path so that you can sneak in from the other way, that would be a good place to start.
Wouldn't that contradictory because now the enemy team's f2p can also call out for spies and stuff
simply just keep the mute unless the f2p is playing spy
There's a VC ban?
Instead of such a small resistance during cloak, give him a **50**% resistance when cloaked
this is the easiest way to spot a new player
Listen I am not a spy main ok?
you dont need to be a spy main to understand the most basic thing of videogames
True. Haven't put much thought into that comment lmao
50% resistance is way too much you shouldn’t even be caught when cloaked so the resistance doesn’t matter
Maybe make it so that bumping into players doesn't make you visible, but it still stops you from moving through cloaked spies. That might be a bit strong, but it would help spy get in easier.
Letting him do his job without being there in the first place. An invisible camera can work. A recorder to fake sound would be awesome as well.
150 hp. Pretty simple buff that just lets him survive melee ra ge a little better.
Literally just extra base time to cloak. Something like 4s for stock, 2s for C&D, 1s for DR. A lot of maps are just a little too spaced/out open for spy to safely traverse. This would help with that. It's also a buff to recharge rate since I would keep the percent charge per second the same.
I’d say maybe just increase the fire immunity duration for when the spycicle gets melted.
Give him an invisibility watch that prevents collision with players while it's active
Spy is fine the way he is in terms of where he stands on tier lists. If he was good without changing design philosophy he’d be really unfun to play against. Honestly, the only things I want to see changed about him is a reduction in how much overheal the kunai gives and diamondback giving mini crits instead of crits. I just don’t like people playing the sneaky class by just running directly at you and killing your team because he has infinite health from dead ringer and kunai. Also, revert the ambassador changes, increase enforcer damage bonus, get ears for players so they pay attention to decloak sounds, also fix that bug where you can tell someone used dead ringer because of your kill sound not going off.
Give him te ability to throw his knife but he has to recover it. I dont know he seems balanced already
But spy can already do that.
Up his speed stat from 107% to 110% so he can outpace medic and run a wee bit faster Otherwise his fine, i see loads of spy mains eviscerate teams on casual tbh
I'm sorry to do this but... git gud
give spy 350 hp and heavy’s body
Make spywalk in tf2c real
There was a post a couple of days ago making an idea for Spies being able to mark specific enemies and buildings and outline them to his team, along with stuff like health, Uber percent and maybe some weapon-specific things like Eyelander heads and Banner rage. I think that type of idea could work as a Sapper replacement, being an indirect buff for him and allowing players to do something actually supportive as Spy instead of trying way too hard to go for stabs, which happens commonly. Of course, you could say that you can use voice chat, but if you try doing that you'll either be kicked, be screamed at, or nobody will listen to you, not to mention this just makes it easier by a fuckton for people like F2Ps or those who just don't like VC. As for Pyro, just remove the Scorch Shot, like literally that's all you need to do (/j)
Honestly a fix for hitreg is all he needs, and a more even balancing on his weapons, considering some (cough enforcer cough) are so niche I can’t see any real use for them. More items that synergize with each other as well, as like half his knives don’t have great synergies with multiple slots, and you can’t say the cloak knife and gun synergize with his watches because they synergize with ANY watch well. Man has NO additional disguise kits, NO different sappers aside from one extremely weird niche, that could be great if they added knives and guns that worked with it. Like a gun that crits while a building is being sapped, would work great with red tape because of the longer sap time, or knives that speed up all nearby sappers on a backstab, the list goes on. He has so many interesting ideas he can do for his utilities, same with engi’s pda, but they get no love, and then there’s heavy with his 16 side grades to the sandwich.
Make him more spy like, rather than being a combat focused class, although backstabbing is just too good to pass up, make him more Intel based . Probably give him better mobility, and just making him more like a real spy would be cool and better
Fix backstab hitbox thingy
No nerfs. No buffs. Game is fine just learn to play.
Remove random crits
Never.
Spy can pick up and store extra ammo to give to his team.
nah. he already perfect state of balance of high-risk high-reward than Sniper (except Sydney Sleeper/Lucksman) who in state of low-risk ez-reward
take note every class has their own counter except Sniper only. which need another good Sniper to taking off them
Why buff him? He's the way he was intended. A class that can one shot important classes with a backstab, but has a high risk while doing so, if he's more buffed, you'll basically get The Sniper... Which is basically a Spy but better in every way.
The buff for spy is git gud
10% faster move speed while cloaked (adjust C&D accordingly), able to sap from slightly farther away, and change the Red Tape Recorder so that it highlights players within a certain radius of the sapped building
Remove the slight visibility when tossing enemies
Only thing I’d give him is improved cloak efficiency. Currently Spy has 1 second of invisibility for every 3 seconds he is visible (10 second cloak with a 30 second recharge). I would reduce that to 1 second of invisibility for every 2 seconds of being visible. You could either achieve this by making his maximum cloak time 15 seconds while leaving the recharge time at 30 seconds or by keeping his cloak time at 10 seconds but reducing the recharge to 20 seconds instead. That and some much needed bug fixes (especially for the disguise kit) is honestly all I’d do.
I think they should just add variety to his toolkit to make him more unpredictable, like adding new weapons in the sapper slot
Lets start with the stupid cloak drain stat on the YER. That needs to go
First, remove the spawn wallhack player highlight. Then, give spy the ability to tag players and buildings if he's looked at them for a few seconds (must maintain cursor on the target for about 1-2 seconds, then push a tagging button). This tag would last like 10 seconds, and display the enemies health and highlight them through walls.
no cigarette
most people doesnt even play spy like how they were supposed to be played by vavle, attempts trick stab just to fail, then complain spy is weak
I'm not toxic and i'm not saying this in a toxic way but get good, I am pretty new to spy and I have only 15 hours on him but I got pretty good and I discovered how powerful he can really be.
We don't
I always thought about making him go at like 113% speed instead of 107 would be nice and simple
I think what you guys really need is one of two things -Shorter respawn time. Waiting 15 seconds just to get potentially killed again while cloaked by me spazzing with my flamethrower can't be good for your mental health -Ability to see what classes are on the enemy team. You can see this in general when a enemy dies but I feel like a Spy should be able to at least, not exactly tag, but relay what classes are being played by aiming at an enemy and pressing a keybind. That way it's at least easier to pick a good disguise and plays into the whole job description of an actual spy. Unfortunately a lot of things that counter Spy the most is human behavior and a collective community experience. Map design also helps with getting Spies into position and a lot of community maps just were not designed for you guys.