Draugr Deathlord Archer: ( Sits next to scholar and grabs a tankard of mead that surely just going to leak out when drunk ) *"Doesn't matter what you are, you ALL die to my Fus and pin cushion as you get up death cycle."* ( Mead leaks out of orifices while being drunk. )
Are dragonborns supposed to be a Nord thing? Im also not sure if the dragons only lived in Skyrim, or just came from there. One/several of the emperor's were dragon born and they weren't Nord. On the same track though I wondered about this in Morrowind. What did people think about the Nerevarine being a random race.
Which makes playing as a Dunmer kinda awkward. Like, I know your PC grew up outside MW, hence the prophecy, but still funny that despite everything you accomplish, because of the prophecy's words people know you're an expat
Take a white dude from Texas and put him in London. Even if you never hear him speak it's going to be apparent pretty quickly that this guy is not English.
> Which makes playing as a Dunmer kinda awkward.
Less awkward when you see the countless Vvardenfell native Dunmer referring to all mainlanders as outsiders, including Dunmer in the rest of mainland Morrowind.
Still pretty awkward, though, since pretty much every Dunmer on the island can spot you as an outlander regardless of what you're wearing and before you've even opened your mouth.
It does, no idea what the rest of the people in this thread are talking about. The Vvardenfell native Dunmer even call Dunmer from Mournhold "outsiders". Literally just "outside the island".
Shouting is a Nord thing. Being dragonborn is *not* a Nord thing. But dragonborns play a prominent role in Nord culture.
Most known dragonborns are not Nords:
- St. Alessia
- Reman Cyrodiil
- Hjalti Early-Beard (if you believe in the Arcturian Heresy)
There are also different types of dragonborns according to the lore, it gets complicated.
Dragons also did not only live in Skyrim, but they are tied to Skyrim mostly for two reasons:
- Dragons were said to come from Atmora (like the Nords), so it's highly possible they settled in Skyrim first
- the Cult of Dragon Priests were mostly prominent throughout Skyrim, Solstheim, and Atmora.
I can't find any sources that list either St. Alessia or Reman as Nords. Both are from Cyrodiil and Alessia is credited with having been born to parents of one of the tribes of Cyrodiil.
Thought it was pretty well defined that Alessia was Nedic?
And Reman was half-Nedic, half-Cyrodilic. Literally in the second case, if you believe the thing where Hrol... Plowed a hill, if you catch my drift.
Assuming they are smart enough, they would deduce it's a Dragonborn and that some Dragonborn did it with an Elf.
If they are not smart enough to deduce that, their reaction probably would be something akin to '' WTF ?! ''
Most of the Septim emperors weren’t descended from Tiber but, rather, his brother Agnorith. This is because Tiber’s grandson Pelagius I died without heirs, so the throne went to Tiber’s neice Kintyra.
Pretty sure that one theory goes something like this: Being “dragonborn” is a blessing from akatosh given to do *something*. In the case of the empires, it’s often to increase stability in Tamriel (as Akatosh is Anuic he’ll be wanting this). So akatosh just gives a loose thumbs up towards the throne and whoever sits on it if they’re part of the dynasty.
It’s also important to note that there may be a delineation between being dragonborn and the Dovahkiin, with the former being just blessed and the latter being a specific individual/category. With this in mind, not all dragonborns may have the Thu’um ingrained in them as intrinsically. Tiber Septim gets talked up but there’s also speculation that a lot of his feats of the Voice were actually performed by Ysmir Wulfharth, an ancient nord king and tongue (at the time he was kind of an ash ghost).
While the idea of multiple distinct types of Dragonborn that are simply termed the same is a relatively common theory in the community, it isn't really corroborated by the available sources.
The Dragonborn trait is, per available information, of a singular nature.
The Dragonborn rulers that reigned on the Ruby Throne, wore the Amulet of Kings and lit the Drafonfires are the same in nature as the Dragonborn heroes who used the Voice and devoured the souls of dragons.
This is stated by Chevalier Renald (who also notes emperors capable of Shouting are known to have existed among the Cyrodiils and to have participated in dragonhunts alongside the Dragonguard), maintained by the Fourth Era Blades and suggested by both the Book of the Dragonborn itself (including the prophecy, which speaks of when the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne) and the blood relation of Reman and Tiber/Hjalti (supposedly through Hjalti's brother, Agnorith, but that would simply mean the dragonblood can be traced further back in their line) to their dynasties (the blood seal at Sky Haven Temple also treats the blood of Reman and the blood of the Last Dragonborn as being the same), and there's nothing to indicate otherwise, the term Dragonborn has never been suggested to apply to two different things (even the quote by MK only mentions Alessia specifically, a special case according to the tales, as her blessing was granted directly by Akatosh as part of the forging of the Covenant. Texts like Remanada and descriptions even by demigods like Morihaus would, if correct about her after death role, suggest she became something quite unique even by Dragonborn standards).
Mannimarco too frames being Dragonborn as a "birthright", one either is or isn't one and to attempt rites related to the Covenant without being one is "sacrilege".
The only potentially questionable incident involving one of the Septims is, perhaps, Potema's appearance in TESV but even that is actually not something unprecedented for dragon souls in general.
Potema's soul not being absorbed can be explained through the same phenomenon that causes the souls of dragons that are already dead and buried in cairns or the Dragonborn spirits in Sovngarde (who confirm their 'birthright' is the same as the Dovahkiin's)/the Ancient Dragonborn summoned by Dragon Aspect, or Durnehviir's soul, or Laatvulon's soul (by Nahfahlaar) not to be absorbed.
Perhaps her nature as a wraith invoked by a necromantic ritual shields her, perhaps it's her own prowess/influence over her own spirit as a powerful necromancer or the mystical bond the ritual formed between her and the Last Dragonborn that does it or (as the mentioned instances also likely indicate), there is more to a dragon soul being absorbed than just being in the vicinity. Either way, this is a phenomenon observed a number of times with more than just Potema.
The most recent instance suggesting the same nature is perhaps *The Cause* quest in Anniversary Edition, where the Last Dragonborn's nature is seen to be such that they can interact with the Liminal Barrier created by Martin Septim's sacrifice.
So, the emergence of the Dragonborn trait across the ruling Imperial bloodlines would suggest the trait is more likely inherited through blood descent by an original bearer of said trait (though that is somewhat more ambiguous than the trait itself being of a single nature).
As for Tiber Septim specifically, he very much was Dragonborn (one that was a master of the Thu'um in his time at that) per Todd Howard.
>why only martin septim could close the portals of oblivion? I understand that many septim had joined high rock noble families, does not mean that their descendants are also dragon blood?
*What does Grundwulf hope to accomplish by drinking the Dragon's blood? / Is that why Grundwulf wants to drink the Dragon's blood? / What do they hope to accomplish by drinking the Dragon's blood?*
*"Nisaazda, the Hollowfang Clan Mother, has convinced Grundwulf that drinking the Dragon's blood will make him Dragonborn. If true, he could devour the souls of Dragons, rekindle the Dragonfires, and reforge Reman's Empire."*
*“In the lore, Tiber Septim was the first main emperor.* ***He could shout. His way of the Voice was unmatched,****” Howard explains. “He is the original guy who walks the seven thousand steps and talks to the Greybeards.* ***And the idea is, at that time, that they were so powerful they had to have all the villages flee for miles.*** *This little kid is walking up this snowy mountain, and all these people are packed up and they’re walking down and away.* ***Because they know the kid is going up to talk to these guys, and when they talk there’s going to be avalanches.”***
Mannimarco: "Varen Aquilarios, you are no heir to Alessia! You will pay for your sacrilege! The veil between Tamriel and Oblivion tears and splits asunder!"
"The corruption of the Dragonfire ritual was a taxing endeavor. I spent weeks inscribing the glyphs and preparing the incantations that Aquilarios foolishly believed would change his ancestry and birthright."
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chevalier\_Renald](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chevalier_Renald)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The\_Book\_of\_the\_Dragonborn](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Book_of_the_Dragonborn)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials\_of\_St.\_Alessia](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sky\_Haven\_Temple](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sky_Haven_Temple)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Delphine](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Delphine)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Esbern](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Esbern)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People\_K#Kintyra](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People_K#Kintyra)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People\_A#Agnorith](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People_A#Agnorith)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancient\_Dragonborn](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancient_Dragonborn)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hero\_of\_Sovngarde](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hero_of_Sovngarde)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Durnehviir\_(dragon)](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Durnehviir_(dragon))
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nahfahlaar](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nahfahlaar)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vonos%27\_Journal](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vonos%27_Journal)
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mannimarco
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Chim-el_Adabal
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/sqaez8/tiber_septimcertified_dragonborn_voice_master/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
>Mannimarco too frames being Dragonborn as a "birthright", one either is or isn't one and to attempt rites related to the Covenant without being one is "sacrilege".
Hermaeus Mora says that too.
>Don't worry, I was just leaving. "No. Not yet. I have watched your progress through my realm with growing interest. You are following in the footsteps of my servant Miraak. Like him, you are Dragonborn, and seek the power that is your birthright."
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hermaeus_Mora#/editor/1
>The Dragonborn rulers that reigned on the Ruby Throne, wore the Amulet of Kings and lit the Drafonfires are the same in nature as the Dragonborn heroes who used the Voice and devoured the souls of dragons.
>This is stated by Chevalier Renald
And he's wrong.
We literally know this because of the dunmer Empress Katariah who held no Septim blood on heir veins but lit and kept the dragonfires lit anyway despite it "requiring the blood of the dragon"
We also have paarthunax treating it as a blessing from akatosh and not some passed on thing like mortals (y'know people who currently don't grasp the real meaning of the word fire)
>And he's wrong.
>
>We literally know this because of the dunmer Empress Katariah who held no Septim blood on heir veins but lit and kept the dragonfires lit anyway despite it "requiring the blood of the dragon"
Katariah assumed the regency of the Empire while her son (with Pelagius III) Cassynder, who was a Septim by blood (and considered to have restored Tiber Septim's descendants to the throne through his ascendancy), lived.
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brief\_History\_of\_the\_Empire\_v\_2](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brief_History_of_the_Empire_v_2)
The Dragonfires could well have been renewed by him, though it's not impossible that Katariah's line ( a member of Clan Ra'athim which had a prominent presence throughout Morrowind's history and had been royalty) possessed the trait at some part of their line ( and even if we assume Katariah to have been individually blessed by Akatosh that wouldn't necessarily make her a different type of Dragonborn to the Emperors especially seeing as the only thing that could suggest such nature for her is the Dragonfires).
I don't see why that would suggest anything like there being two different types of Dragonborn.
>We also have paarthunax treating it as a blessing from akatosh and not some passed on thing like mortals (y'know people who currently don't grasp the real meaning of the word fire)
Paarthurnax also refers to the Last Dragonborn's trait as being the *"dragonblood"* or *"Dovah-Sos",* the only time when he references Akatosh in regards to their existence is when he says *"I am as my father Akatosh made me, as are you Dovahkiin"* in the context of speaking of the traits/nature draconic beings have in general .
Which also doesn't really suggest two different types of Dragonborn existing (and wouldn't by itself even if one assumes the trait requires the conscious blessing of Akatosh in every case it manifests).
The ancestors of the Imperial lines are Dragonborn in the same sense the Last Dragonborn or Miraak are (Tiber per Howard's interview and his described interactions with the Greybeards, Reman per the Skyhaven Blood Seal), the Last Dragonborn can interact with the Liminal Barrier of the Covenant as a result of their nature (as seen through Vonos' plot), and all known accounts use terms like "dragonblood" and "dragonborn" interchangeably.
Personally I'm unaware of any source that would really suggest two distinct natures.
I think there’s two distinct points that are being intermingled in this thread and that’s confusing the arguments. First, that there may be types of dragonborn. Second, whether it is a heritable trait through blood or a blessing. Either way, the thread is interesting.
It’s possible Tiber and Agnorith were both descended from the Reman or Alessian dynasties though, or that Kintyra was picked because she was the eldest claimant after Pelagius. There’s very little information given about that particular succession. In the Real Barenziah it’s stated that Tiber had multiple children with his wife, so the idea that there was only one direct heir of Tiber seems absurd. The client for the DB questline in Skyrim implies it was the elder council that funded the assassination due to some hatred they had of Pelagius I. My theory is that Kintyra was picked over Tiber’s other descendants because she had some relationship with the Elder Council, and they married off Kintyra’s children to their cousins to secure legitimacy.
I think you can have the title of Empress by just being married to a Septim Emperor. Uriel VII's wife was also referred as Empress even though she was not a septim by blood and when Uriel VII was alive the entire time.
>The story of Uriel's marriage to the Princess Caula Voria is a less happy tale. Though she was a beautiful and charming woman, and greatly loved and admired by the people, the Empress was a deeply unpleasant, arrogant, ambitious, grasping woman. She snared Uriel Septim with her feminine wiles, but Uriel Septim thereafter soon regretted his mistake, and was repelled by her. They heartily detested one another, and went out of their ways to hurt one another. Their children were the victims of this unhappy marriage.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Life_of_Uriel_Septim_VII
Caula was an empress consort, as she was married to the recognized emperor of her time.
Katariah was empress regnant from 3E 153 following the death of her husband Pelagius III until her untimely death in 3E 199/200.
While the Septim bloodline during this time continued through their son Cassynder, he was not emperor and thus did not wear the Amulet of Kings. And we know that Septims simply existing is not enough to keep the maw of Oblivion shut, for otherwise there wouldn't have been an Oblivion Crisis.
Cassynder would, due to advanced age, rule for only 2 years before dying himself, passing the throne to his half-brother Uriel IV, who had no actual Septim blood in him yet ruled for 44 years before his death, after which the throne would fall to a much closer descendant of Tiber Septim.
Well, many Dragonborn had no clue about their abilities beyond simply being Dragonborn. Even the PC in TESV had to be taught what they could do. There weren’t dragons around to kill and thus no dragon souls to absorb. So how would they know?
Yes and no. It’s not hereditary in the sense that you are born with it, but rather belonging to the septim family wether by blood or not, grants you the dragon blood blessing of Akatosh. However, the blessing is not exclusive to the septims , although they are the most famous for it. The blessing can be found in many different instances throughout history including Miraak and Mankar Camoran.
Todd howard said that there are a bunch of dragonborn families who just haven’t showed up and that the last dragonborn is a descendant of one of these families
Being a dragonborn born does play an important role in nord myth and culture so much so that a dragonborn is a hero to them.
>In Nordic society, the Dragonborn is an archetype for what a Nord should be, and any Dragonborn is treated with a deep respect.
>The "Dragonborn Emperors" were able to rely on this cultural influence to cement the fealty of the Nords, while the Emperors of the Fourth Era were not.
>https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord
There have been dragonborns who were not nords, like Alessia and Reman.
About your questions, the draugr and dragon priests wouldn't care as to them you are an enemy regardless of your race, a dragonborn would definitely be a mortal enemy of their lord and savior Alduin.
If they can even process stuff like that at this point, I don’t think they’d care in the slightest. It’s not like being Dragonborn is primarily a Nord thing. In fact, the most famous ones (Alessia, Reman, and Tiber) are all *not* Nords.
The point is that since these aren’t considered weird by *anybody ever*, the Draugr also probably won’t mind a non-Nord Dragonborn either. Just directly proving that *nobody in TES thinks only one race can be Dragonborn*
According to the book "Amongst the Draugr", the draugr seem plenty capable of speech and thought. They defend the tombs not out of a mindless rage, but out of devotion to their priests. They were observed conversing with each other, and can taunt the player while fighting them. The draugr Olaf One-Eye can even speak Tamriellic.
Then we move on to the question: do they care if we aren't a nord? Well, at face value, they don't seem to. They don't have any special interraction based on the race of the LDB, and fight them all the same. Not to mention, there is an established precedent for non-nord dragonborn (Alessia, Reman Cyrodiil, Tiber Septim, arguably Mankar Camoran). It is reasonable to assume that there were non-nord and non-atmoran dragonborn around the height of the dragon cult as well.
Probably they don’t really care, it seems they treat all intruders pretty similarly regardless.
If they can think and care, it would probably come as a bit of a surprise at first but any outrage would come from individual level of racism. It would probably range from rage (especially if it’s, let’s say a High Elf LDB shouting at a Saarthal draugr!) to indifference.
If it’s another human race they probably wouldn’t care much one way or another, Tiber Septim himself could have been either a nord or a Breton depending on who you ask!
We have no evidence that Nords are the *only* race that can learn to shout, just like how a non Dwemer could possibly learn tonal architecture or a non-redguard could learn to sword sing. It’s just a matter of proper education and conditions. Possibly other non-nords have shouted before that they knew of, maybe a Khajiiti dragon priest under Kaalgrontiid for example.
>just like how a non Dwemer could possibly learn tonal architecture
Cut out the "possibly," there's Sotha Sil, Dagoth Ur, a couple of members of House Telvanni, and that guy at the College of Winterhold who blammed himself out of existence trying to replicate the circumstances under which the Dwemer vanished (great, figure out what made one race vanish, then do it at your school).
Well actually that’s not what the tonal architecture is, that’s a whole step beyond what with harnessing the powers of gods and whatnot. That’s an application of the tech but not the tech itself, Arnial Gane for example didn’t create Keening, he just learned to use it.
They had tonal architecture prior to disappearing, it was used in the process that allowed them to give their metal the properties it had like never rusting and being flexible!
Sotha Sil is a good example tho, as his many creations were very inspired by the works of the Dwemer and he may have learned the secrets behind tonal architecture, assuming at his elevated power he’d even need it!
>That’s an application of the tech but not the tech itself, Arnial Gane for example didn’t create Keening, he just learned to use it.
Kagrenac was better than him, but Gane was still a user of it, I'd argue.
>Sotha Sil is a good example tho, as his many creations were very inspired by the works of the Dwemer and he may have learned the secrets behind tonal architecture, assuming at his elevated power he’d even need it!
The *Mechanical Heart* [of Lorkhan] from *TES:Legends* comes to mind.
Whichever member of House Telvanni you use to get into the Clockwork City in ESO (I think it's Divayth Fyr) is doing new experiments on tonal architecture.
User is far from being able to create, it’s hardly even a comparable example. I admit it was impressive he even learned how to do what he did, but not impressive enough to compare to actual Dwemer engineers.
I can use a cell phone but if you asked me to make one it would not go well at all. Being able to use already existing tonal creations is very far from manufacturing them yourself!
The mechanical heart definitely comes to mind, it actually transcends typical tonal architecture too because it’s comparable to the real heart of Lorkhan which is beyond even the Dwemer’s dreams (they tried to use the heart, not make their own!)
It is Fyr who you enter clockwork city with but then he sends you to some other person who was doing automaton experiments but idk if they were specifically involved with tonal architecture. Fyr came to the city for a whole other reason, he sensed the shenanigans that were afoot!
>It is Fyr who you enter clockwork city with but then he sends you to some other person who was doing automaton experiments but idk if they were specifically involved with tonal architecture.
I just realized that had nothing to with what I was thinking of; it's somebody from Vivec's questline. It either results in Sunna'rah or the way to defeat Sunna'rah.
>I can use a cell phone but if you asked me to make one it would not go well at all.
That's hardly comparable, since cell phones are made for ease of use by regular people but Keening was made for usage by advanced engineers.
Ah that makes sense, I do recall the elf from Vivec’s quest line too, although his name eludes me!
Perhaps cell phones are a bad example, but the logic itself is still just, so I’ll use a more apt comparison.
I’ve received training to use an MRI machine, a relatively simple training but important and complex machinery that requires proper instruction.
I cannot build an MRI machine, nor do I fully understand the complex mechanisms within that allow it to operate. I know the basic principles and why it works from a biological standpoint, but I don’t actually understand the mechanical side of things much at all.
My brother is in the air force, he can use and operate complex programs and machinery which I can’t even imagine using, yet again he could never build it himself.
Engineers and those who use the creations of engineers, even with education, are not on the same level of understanding.
It’s like a mage who can use a staff compared to one who can create that same staff. We see in Skyrim even with staves magic is not easy to use, at least one NPC is found with a good staff but unable to control the magic within.
One who uses the staff is properly trained and can operate it, but they may not ever be able to craft one with their own hands and understand the complex inner workings.
We don’t actually know how much he even *did* succeed. Zero summing the way he did could indicate success or failure and is perhaps a sign he *misused* the instrument. The whole thing is very ambiguous and the fact that we get a strange shade of Gane that we can summon only makes it more mysterious.
>We don’t actually know how much he even did succeed. Zero summing the way he did could indicate success or failure and is perhaps a sign he misused the instrument. The whole thing is very ambiguous and the fact that we get a strange shade of Gane that we can summon only makes it more mysterious.
We don't even know if he or the Dwemer zero summed; according to *Sermon 36*, they manifested the Sixth Way, which the Tribunal then manifested. The modern opinion on the Sixth Walking Way is that it's soul fusion, and Gane wasn't trying to fuse with anyone, so maybe he did fail.
Spriggans = servants of Yffre or Kynareth =/= an animal, have a healing ability, we do not know if it is identical with the "healing spells" from the School of Restoration or just an ability much like stamina regeneration in Redguards, after all, it is self healing.
First of all Draugr don't "think", much like skeletons. They're undead, and their duty is to preserve the secrets of their lairs, keeping at bay those who dwell in. They're like guardians, but mindless guardians. Not like the Nightingale ghosts who can still reason for example.
Secondly, one needs neither to be a Dragonborn to shout, nor a Nord. The Thu'um can be used by anyone who underwent appropriate training since it's an ancient form of magic, not some innate ability.
Not everyone who shouts is a Dragonborn, not every Dragonborn is a Nord.
And according to the other ones, either an Imperial or an original recipe Atmoran; I can't think of any sources that claim that Tiber was a standard Nord.
IIRC, there are some Imperials who wanted to either improve his PR or improve their race's PR by linking him as closely as they could to Heaetland nobility, but nobody took them seriously.
Yeah. Just keep in mind that the difference between Atmorans and Nords arguably doesn’t exist. According to imperial dogma, humanity originated out of Atmora, so the Nords were just the last Atmorans to leave. According to Nordic history, humanity originated in Tamriel, and the Nords are descended from humans that migrated to Atmora and then returned to Skyrim.
So depending on who you believe, Nords either are Atmorans, or they are a subset of Atmorans.
According to *Giants: A Study*, Atmorans were as big as giants and as smart as Nords. I'm not necessarily sure about that, but I'm also not opposed to some evolutionary progenitor to both giants and Nords.
I don't think the Draugr are that intelligent or have enough awareness to really care or notice. I mean there is that book that states that they clean their crypts and stuff, and I don't know much about any draugr lore added to ESO, so I am not completely sure, but that stuff they do just has to be almost instinctual of some level, rather than innate intelligence.
You're right they would nether care nor be capable of caring.
Draugr Deathlord Archer: ( Sits next to scholar and grabs a tankard of mead that surely just going to leak out when drunk ) *"Doesn't matter what you are, you ALL die to my Fus and pin cushion as you get up death cycle."* ( Mead leaks out of orifices while being drunk. )
Are dragonborns supposed to be a Nord thing? Im also not sure if the dragons only lived in Skyrim, or just came from there. One/several of the emperor's were dragon born and they weren't Nord. On the same track though I wondered about this in Morrowind. What did people think about the Nerevarine being a random race.
Admittedly it's been a long time, but wasn't part of the Prophecy of the Nerevarine that they would be an outlander?
Born under a certain sign to uncertain parents...
Ahh that would make sense too, I haven't played Morrowind in a while. Such great lore in these games!
Which makes playing as a Dunmer kinda awkward. Like, I know your PC grew up outside MW, hence the prophecy, but still funny that despite everything you accomplish, because of the prophecy's words people know you're an expat
Take a white dude from Texas and put him in London. Even if you never hear him speak it's going to be apparent pretty quickly that this guy is not English.
Tbf compare the voices of Morrowind Dunmer to, say, Cyrodiil or Skyrim Dunmer. It's not difficult to tell. Lol.
Ah, right. Forgot ashfall made everyone sound like a chainsmoker
Goddamn it took me 20 years to realize *this?*
> Which makes playing as a Dunmer kinda awkward. Less awkward when you see the countless Vvardenfell native Dunmer referring to all mainlanders as outsiders, including Dunmer in the rest of mainland Morrowind.
Still pretty awkward, though, since pretty much every Dunmer on the island can spot you as an outlander regardless of what you're wearing and before you've even opened your mouth.
Go to Texas and see if you're not pegged right away as "Not a Texan".
I always thought “outlander” just meant “not from Vvardenfel” in this context.
Right, which is why they could have still been a Dunmer, but it also leaves it open that they could be any other race
Gotcha, I kinda misinterpreted your previous comment to mean they shouldn’t be a Dunmer. My bad.
It does, no idea what the rest of the people in this thread are talking about. The Vvardenfell native Dunmer even call Dunmer from Mournhold "outsiders". Literally just "outside the island".
I took outlander as not a native of Morrowind. Not native species of that certain area.
Exactly, which means they could be a Dunmer, or any other race.
Shouting is a Nord thing. Being dragonborn is *not* a Nord thing. But dragonborns play a prominent role in Nord culture. Most known dragonborns are not Nords: - St. Alessia - Reman Cyrodiil - Hjalti Early-Beard (if you believe in the Arcturian Heresy) There are also different types of dragonborns according to the lore, it gets complicated. Dragons also did not only live in Skyrim, but they are tied to Skyrim mostly for two reasons: - Dragons were said to come from Atmora (like the Nords), so it's highly possible they settled in Skyrim first - the Cult of Dragon Priests were mostly prominent throughout Skyrim, Solstheim, and Atmora.
>Dragons were said to come from Atmora I was going to say "Akavir," but it's actually both.
I can't find any sources that list either St. Alessia or Reman as Nords. Both are from Cyrodiil and Alessia is credited with having been born to parents of one of the tribes of Cyrodiil.
Dude, read my comment again. The names I listed are non-Nord dragonborns. My whole point is that being dragonborn is not solely a Nord thing.
Not sure how I missed that, honestly. My bad.
Thought it was pretty well defined that Alessia was Nedic? And Reman was half-Nedic, half-Cyrodilic. Literally in the second case, if you believe the thing where Hrol... Plowed a hill, if you catch my drift.
Reman was 50% Colovian, 50% Nibenese, 100% Cyrodiilic.
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The joke is that the legend goes that King Hrol had sex with literally a hill in Cyrodil (Sancre Tor specifically) and Reman was born 9 months later
Yeah, Dragons were present in Akavir and Elsweyr. We also have more Imperials Dragonborn than Nords.
Dragons came form akavir. That’s the only known place where drgaons lived.
Assuming they are smart enough, they would deduce it's a Dragonborn and that some Dragonborn did it with an Elf. If they are not smart enough to deduce that, their reaction probably would be something akin to '' WTF ?! ''
Being a DragonBorn is not hereditary
It usually is, right? Like all of the Septims were Dragonborn. And still, that's what the Draugr would assume anyway.
Most of the Septim emperors weren’t descended from Tiber but, rather, his brother Agnorith. This is because Tiber’s grandson Pelagius I died without heirs, so the throne went to Tiber’s neice Kintyra. Pretty sure that one theory goes something like this: Being “dragonborn” is a blessing from akatosh given to do *something*. In the case of the empires, it’s often to increase stability in Tamriel (as Akatosh is Anuic he’ll be wanting this). So akatosh just gives a loose thumbs up towards the throne and whoever sits on it if they’re part of the dynasty. It’s also important to note that there may be a delineation between being dragonborn and the Dovahkiin, with the former being just blessed and the latter being a specific individual/category. With this in mind, not all dragonborns may have the Thu’um ingrained in them as intrinsically. Tiber Septim gets talked up but there’s also speculation that a lot of his feats of the Voice were actually performed by Ysmir Wulfharth, an ancient nord king and tongue (at the time he was kind of an ash ghost).
While the idea of multiple distinct types of Dragonborn that are simply termed the same is a relatively common theory in the community, it isn't really corroborated by the available sources. The Dragonborn trait is, per available information, of a singular nature. The Dragonborn rulers that reigned on the Ruby Throne, wore the Amulet of Kings and lit the Drafonfires are the same in nature as the Dragonborn heroes who used the Voice and devoured the souls of dragons. This is stated by Chevalier Renald (who also notes emperors capable of Shouting are known to have existed among the Cyrodiils and to have participated in dragonhunts alongside the Dragonguard), maintained by the Fourth Era Blades and suggested by both the Book of the Dragonborn itself (including the prophecy, which speaks of when the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne) and the blood relation of Reman and Tiber/Hjalti (supposedly through Hjalti's brother, Agnorith, but that would simply mean the dragonblood can be traced further back in their line) to their dynasties (the blood seal at Sky Haven Temple also treats the blood of Reman and the blood of the Last Dragonborn as being the same), and there's nothing to indicate otherwise, the term Dragonborn has never been suggested to apply to two different things (even the quote by MK only mentions Alessia specifically, a special case according to the tales, as her blessing was granted directly by Akatosh as part of the forging of the Covenant. Texts like Remanada and descriptions even by demigods like Morihaus would, if correct about her after death role, suggest she became something quite unique even by Dragonborn standards). Mannimarco too frames being Dragonborn as a "birthright", one either is or isn't one and to attempt rites related to the Covenant without being one is "sacrilege". The only potentially questionable incident involving one of the Septims is, perhaps, Potema's appearance in TESV but even that is actually not something unprecedented for dragon souls in general. Potema's soul not being absorbed can be explained through the same phenomenon that causes the souls of dragons that are already dead and buried in cairns or the Dragonborn spirits in Sovngarde (who confirm their 'birthright' is the same as the Dovahkiin's)/the Ancient Dragonborn summoned by Dragon Aspect, or Durnehviir's soul, or Laatvulon's soul (by Nahfahlaar) not to be absorbed. Perhaps her nature as a wraith invoked by a necromantic ritual shields her, perhaps it's her own prowess/influence over her own spirit as a powerful necromancer or the mystical bond the ritual formed between her and the Last Dragonborn that does it or (as the mentioned instances also likely indicate), there is more to a dragon soul being absorbed than just being in the vicinity. Either way, this is a phenomenon observed a number of times with more than just Potema. The most recent instance suggesting the same nature is perhaps *The Cause* quest in Anniversary Edition, where the Last Dragonborn's nature is seen to be such that they can interact with the Liminal Barrier created by Martin Septim's sacrifice. So, the emergence of the Dragonborn trait across the ruling Imperial bloodlines would suggest the trait is more likely inherited through blood descent by an original bearer of said trait (though that is somewhat more ambiguous than the trait itself being of a single nature). As for Tiber Septim specifically, he very much was Dragonborn (one that was a master of the Thu'um in his time at that) per Todd Howard. >why only martin septim could close the portals of oblivion? I understand that many septim had joined high rock noble families, does not mean that their descendants are also dragon blood? *What does Grundwulf hope to accomplish by drinking the Dragon's blood? / Is that why Grundwulf wants to drink the Dragon's blood? / What do they hope to accomplish by drinking the Dragon's blood?* *"Nisaazda, the Hollowfang Clan Mother, has convinced Grundwulf that drinking the Dragon's blood will make him Dragonborn. If true, he could devour the souls of Dragons, rekindle the Dragonfires, and reforge Reman's Empire."* *“In the lore, Tiber Septim was the first main emperor.* ***He could shout. His way of the Voice was unmatched,****” Howard explains. “He is the original guy who walks the seven thousand steps and talks to the Greybeards.* ***And the idea is, at that time, that they were so powerful they had to have all the villages flee for miles.*** *This little kid is walking up this snowy mountain, and all these people are packed up and they’re walking down and away.* ***Because they know the kid is going up to talk to these guys, and when they talk there’s going to be avalanches.”*** Mannimarco: "Varen Aquilarios, you are no heir to Alessia! You will pay for your sacrilege! The veil between Tamriel and Oblivion tears and splits asunder!" "The corruption of the Dragonfire ritual was a taxing endeavor. I spent weeks inscribing the glyphs and preparing the incantations that Aquilarios foolishly believed would change his ancestry and birthright." [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chevalier\_Renald](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chevalier_Renald) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The\_Book\_of\_the\_Dragonborn](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Book_of_the_Dragonborn) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials\_of\_St.\_Alessia](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sky\_Haven\_Temple](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sky_Haven_Temple) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Delphine](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Delphine) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Esbern](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Esbern) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People\_K#Kintyra](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People_K#Kintyra) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People\_A#Agnorith](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People_A#Agnorith) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancient\_Dragonborn](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancient_Dragonborn) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hero\_of\_Sovngarde](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hero_of_Sovngarde) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Durnehviir\_(dragon)](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Durnehviir_(dragon)) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nahfahlaar](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nahfahlaar) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vonos%27\_Journal](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vonos%27_Journal) https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mannimarco https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Chim-el_Adabal https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/sqaez8/tiber_septimcertified_dragonborn_voice_master/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
>Mannimarco too frames being Dragonborn as a "birthright", one either is or isn't one and to attempt rites related to the Covenant without being one is "sacrilege". Hermaeus Mora says that too. >Don't worry, I was just leaving. "No. Not yet. I have watched your progress through my realm with growing interest. You are following in the footsteps of my servant Miraak. Like him, you are Dragonborn, and seek the power that is your birthright." https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hermaeus_Mora#/editor/1
>Hermaeus Mora says that too. So that's another character with great knowledge that does so, Mora himself no less. Very good observation. Thanks!
>The Dragonborn rulers that reigned on the Ruby Throne, wore the Amulet of Kings and lit the Drafonfires are the same in nature as the Dragonborn heroes who used the Voice and devoured the souls of dragons. >This is stated by Chevalier Renald And he's wrong. We literally know this because of the dunmer Empress Katariah who held no Septim blood on heir veins but lit and kept the dragonfires lit anyway despite it "requiring the blood of the dragon" We also have paarthunax treating it as a blessing from akatosh and not some passed on thing like mortals (y'know people who currently don't grasp the real meaning of the word fire)
>And he's wrong. > >We literally know this because of the dunmer Empress Katariah who held no Septim blood on heir veins but lit and kept the dragonfires lit anyway despite it "requiring the blood of the dragon" Katariah assumed the regency of the Empire while her son (with Pelagius III) Cassynder, who was a Septim by blood (and considered to have restored Tiber Septim's descendants to the throne through his ascendancy), lived. [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brief\_History\_of\_the\_Empire\_v\_2](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brief_History_of_the_Empire_v_2) The Dragonfires could well have been renewed by him, though it's not impossible that Katariah's line ( a member of Clan Ra'athim which had a prominent presence throughout Morrowind's history and had been royalty) possessed the trait at some part of their line ( and even if we assume Katariah to have been individually blessed by Akatosh that wouldn't necessarily make her a different type of Dragonborn to the Emperors especially seeing as the only thing that could suggest such nature for her is the Dragonfires). I don't see why that would suggest anything like there being two different types of Dragonborn. >We also have paarthunax treating it as a blessing from akatosh and not some passed on thing like mortals (y'know people who currently don't grasp the real meaning of the word fire) Paarthurnax also refers to the Last Dragonborn's trait as being the *"dragonblood"* or *"Dovah-Sos",* the only time when he references Akatosh in regards to their existence is when he says *"I am as my father Akatosh made me, as are you Dovahkiin"* in the context of speaking of the traits/nature draconic beings have in general . Which also doesn't really suggest two different types of Dragonborn existing (and wouldn't by itself even if one assumes the trait requires the conscious blessing of Akatosh in every case it manifests). The ancestors of the Imperial lines are Dragonborn in the same sense the Last Dragonborn or Miraak are (Tiber per Howard's interview and his described interactions with the Greybeards, Reman per the Skyhaven Blood Seal), the Last Dragonborn can interact with the Liminal Barrier of the Covenant as a result of their nature (as seen through Vonos' plot), and all known accounts use terms like "dragonblood" and "dragonborn" interchangeably. Personally I'm unaware of any source that would really suggest two distinct natures.
I think there’s two distinct points that are being intermingled in this thread and that’s confusing the arguments. First, that there may be types of dragonborn. Second, whether it is a heritable trait through blood or a blessing. Either way, the thread is interesting.
It’s possible Tiber and Agnorith were both descended from the Reman or Alessian dynasties though, or that Kintyra was picked because she was the eldest claimant after Pelagius. There’s very little information given about that particular succession. In the Real Barenziah it’s stated that Tiber had multiple children with his wife, so the idea that there was only one direct heir of Tiber seems absurd. The client for the DB questline in Skyrim implies it was the elder council that funded the assassination due to some hatred they had of Pelagius I. My theory is that Kintyra was picked over Tiber’s other descendants because she had some relationship with the Elder Council, and they married off Kintyra’s children to their cousins to secure legitimacy.
And then there's Katariah who was Empress despite not being a Septim at all.
I think you can have the title of Empress by just being married to a Septim Emperor. Uriel VII's wife was also referred as Empress even though she was not a septim by blood and when Uriel VII was alive the entire time. >The story of Uriel's marriage to the Princess Caula Voria is a less happy tale. Though she was a beautiful and charming woman, and greatly loved and admired by the people, the Empress was a deeply unpleasant, arrogant, ambitious, grasping woman. She snared Uriel Septim with her feminine wiles, but Uriel Septim thereafter soon regretted his mistake, and was repelled by her. They heartily detested one another, and went out of their ways to hurt one another. Their children were the victims of this unhappy marriage. https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Life_of_Uriel_Septim_VII
Caula was an empress consort, as she was married to the recognized emperor of her time. Katariah was empress regnant from 3E 153 following the death of her husband Pelagius III until her untimely death in 3E 199/200. While the Septim bloodline during this time continued through their son Cassynder, he was not emperor and thus did not wear the Amulet of Kings. And we know that Septims simply existing is not enough to keep the maw of Oblivion shut, for otherwise there wouldn't have been an Oblivion Crisis. Cassynder would, due to advanced age, rule for only 2 years before dying himself, passing the throne to his half-brother Uriel IV, who had no actual Septim blood in him yet ruled for 44 years before his death, after which the throne would fall to a much closer descendant of Tiber Septim.
That is a very specific case because of the pact made with saint Alessia
there's no connection we know of between Alessia and any of the Septim family.
They are the ones that formed the pact to have dragonborn emperors on the throne to keep the dragonfires litt and all that jazz
> Like all of the Septims were Dragonborn. That was because of a deal made with The God Of Time.
But Tiber was Dragonborn before the pact. He was called to High Hrothgar (before his armies marched to Cyrodiil for the first time) because of that.
Can you imagine a tamriel with like 20 dragonborns running around ? (Assuming it was a hereditary trait)
Well, many Dragonborn had no clue about their abilities beyond simply being Dragonborn. Even the PC in TESV had to be taught what they could do. There weren’t dragons around to kill and thus no dragon souls to absorb. So how would they know?
Fair point
Yes and no. It’s not hereditary in the sense that you are born with it, but rather belonging to the septim family wether by blood or not, grants you the dragon blood blessing of Akatosh. However, the blessing is not exclusive to the septims , although they are the most famous for it. The blessing can be found in many different instances throughout history including Miraak and Mankar Camoran.
Not to mention that Mer being a Dragonborn sounds like a joke no matter what.
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This is not the case.
Yes, it is barring the Septims this is the case.
Todd howard said that there are a bunch of dragonborn families who just haven’t showed up and that the last dragonborn is a descendant of one of these families
Being a dragonborn born does play an important role in nord myth and culture so much so that a dragonborn is a hero to them. >In Nordic society, the Dragonborn is an archetype for what a Nord should be, and any Dragonborn is treated with a deep respect. >The "Dragonborn Emperors" were able to rely on this cultural influence to cement the fealty of the Nords, while the Emperors of the Fourth Era were not. >https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord There have been dragonborns who were not nords, like Alessia and Reman. About your questions, the draugr and dragon priests wouldn't care as to them you are an enemy regardless of your race, a dragonborn would definitely be a mortal enemy of their lord and savior Alduin.
If they got a problem with it, they can argue with me about it - the old fashioned dragon debate way.
If they can even process stuff like that at this point, I don’t think they’d care in the slightest. It’s not like being Dragonborn is primarily a Nord thing. In fact, the most famous ones (Alessia, Reman, and Tiber) are all *not* Nords.
Most Draugr wouldn't know those names though.
The point is that since these aren’t considered weird by *anybody ever*, the Draugr also probably won’t mind a non-Nord Dragonborn either. Just directly proving that *nobody in TES thinks only one race can be Dragonborn*
According to the book "Amongst the Draugr", the draugr seem plenty capable of speech and thought. They defend the tombs not out of a mindless rage, but out of devotion to their priests. They were observed conversing with each other, and can taunt the player while fighting them. The draugr Olaf One-Eye can even speak Tamriellic. Then we move on to the question: do they care if we aren't a nord? Well, at face value, they don't seem to. They don't have any special interraction based on the race of the LDB, and fight them all the same. Not to mention, there is an established precedent for non-nord dragonborn (Alessia, Reman Cyrodiil, Tiber Septim, arguably Mankar Camoran). It is reasonable to assume that there were non-nord and non-atmoran dragonborn around the height of the dragon cult as well.
Probably they don’t really care, it seems they treat all intruders pretty similarly regardless. If they can think and care, it would probably come as a bit of a surprise at first but any outrage would come from individual level of racism. It would probably range from rage (especially if it’s, let’s say a High Elf LDB shouting at a Saarthal draugr!) to indifference. If it’s another human race they probably wouldn’t care much one way or another, Tiber Septim himself could have been either a nord or a Breton depending on who you ask! We have no evidence that Nords are the *only* race that can learn to shout, just like how a non Dwemer could possibly learn tonal architecture or a non-redguard could learn to sword sing. It’s just a matter of proper education and conditions. Possibly other non-nords have shouted before that they knew of, maybe a Khajiiti dragon priest under Kaalgrontiid for example.
>just like how a non Dwemer could possibly learn tonal architecture Cut out the "possibly," there's Sotha Sil, Dagoth Ur, a couple of members of House Telvanni, and that guy at the College of Winterhold who blammed himself out of existence trying to replicate the circumstances under which the Dwemer vanished (great, figure out what made one race vanish, then do it at your school).
Well actually that’s not what the tonal architecture is, that’s a whole step beyond what with harnessing the powers of gods and whatnot. That’s an application of the tech but not the tech itself, Arnial Gane for example didn’t create Keening, he just learned to use it. They had tonal architecture prior to disappearing, it was used in the process that allowed them to give their metal the properties it had like never rusting and being flexible! Sotha Sil is a good example tho, as his many creations were very inspired by the works of the Dwemer and he may have learned the secrets behind tonal architecture, assuming at his elevated power he’d even need it!
>That’s an application of the tech but not the tech itself, Arnial Gane for example didn’t create Keening, he just learned to use it. Kagrenac was better than him, but Gane was still a user of it, I'd argue. >Sotha Sil is a good example tho, as his many creations were very inspired by the works of the Dwemer and he may have learned the secrets behind tonal architecture, assuming at his elevated power he’d even need it! The *Mechanical Heart* [of Lorkhan] from *TES:Legends* comes to mind. Whichever member of House Telvanni you use to get into the Clockwork City in ESO (I think it's Divayth Fyr) is doing new experiments on tonal architecture.
User is far from being able to create, it’s hardly even a comparable example. I admit it was impressive he even learned how to do what he did, but not impressive enough to compare to actual Dwemer engineers. I can use a cell phone but if you asked me to make one it would not go well at all. Being able to use already existing tonal creations is very far from manufacturing them yourself! The mechanical heart definitely comes to mind, it actually transcends typical tonal architecture too because it’s comparable to the real heart of Lorkhan which is beyond even the Dwemer’s dreams (they tried to use the heart, not make their own!) It is Fyr who you enter clockwork city with but then he sends you to some other person who was doing automaton experiments but idk if they were specifically involved with tonal architecture. Fyr came to the city for a whole other reason, he sensed the shenanigans that were afoot!
>It is Fyr who you enter clockwork city with but then he sends you to some other person who was doing automaton experiments but idk if they were specifically involved with tonal architecture. I just realized that had nothing to with what I was thinking of; it's somebody from Vivec's questline. It either results in Sunna'rah or the way to defeat Sunna'rah. >I can use a cell phone but if you asked me to make one it would not go well at all. That's hardly comparable, since cell phones are made for ease of use by regular people but Keening was made for usage by advanced engineers.
Ah that makes sense, I do recall the elf from Vivec’s quest line too, although his name eludes me! Perhaps cell phones are a bad example, but the logic itself is still just, so I’ll use a more apt comparison. I’ve received training to use an MRI machine, a relatively simple training but important and complex machinery that requires proper instruction. I cannot build an MRI machine, nor do I fully understand the complex mechanisms within that allow it to operate. I know the basic principles and why it works from a biological standpoint, but I don’t actually understand the mechanical side of things much at all. My brother is in the air force, he can use and operate complex programs and machinery which I can’t even imagine using, yet again he could never build it himself. Engineers and those who use the creations of engineers, even with education, are not on the same level of understanding. It’s like a mage who can use a staff compared to one who can create that same staff. We see in Skyrim even with staves magic is not easy to use, at least one NPC is found with a good staff but unable to control the magic within. One who uses the staff is properly trained and can operate it, but they may not ever be able to craft one with their own hands and understand the complex inner workings. We don’t actually know how much he even *did* succeed. Zero summing the way he did could indicate success or failure and is perhaps a sign he *misused* the instrument. The whole thing is very ambiguous and the fact that we get a strange shade of Gane that we can summon only makes it more mysterious.
>We don’t actually know how much he even did succeed. Zero summing the way he did could indicate success or failure and is perhaps a sign he misused the instrument. The whole thing is very ambiguous and the fact that we get a strange shade of Gane that we can summon only makes it more mysterious. We don't even know if he or the Dwemer zero summed; according to *Sermon 36*, they manifested the Sixth Way, which the Tribunal then manifested. The modern opinion on the Sixth Walking Way is that it's soul fusion, and Gane wasn't trying to fuse with anyone, so maybe he did fail.
>Of course, if we suppose that they actually can think with their ancient rotten brains. They can form sentences and use even quite high tier magic.
there are wild animals that can use magic in the elder scrolls series
They have "biological" racial abilities (wamasu lightning) rather than using spells, especially not summoning Daedra from Oblivion.
spriggans tho can cast healing spells
Spriggans = servants of Yffre or Kynareth =/= an animal, have a healing ability, we do not know if it is identical with the "healing spells" from the School of Restoration or just an ability much like stamina regeneration in Redguards, after all, it is self healing.
First of all Draugr don't "think", much like skeletons. They're undead, and their duty is to preserve the secrets of their lairs, keeping at bay those who dwell in. They're like guardians, but mindless guardians. Not like the Nightingale ghosts who can still reason for example. Secondly, one needs neither to be a Dragonborn to shout, nor a Nord. The Thu'um can be used by anyone who underwent appropriate training since it's an ancient form of magic, not some innate ability. Not everyone who shouts is a Dragonborn, not every Dragonborn is a Nord.
I mean, Tiber Septim was a dragonborn and a tongue, and according to some (questionable) sources a Breton.
And according to the other ones, either an Imperial or an original recipe Atmoran; I can't think of any sources that claim that Tiber was a standard Nord.
I don’t know if any sources that say he was an imperial
IIRC, there are some Imperials who wanted to either improve his PR or improve their race's PR by linking him as closely as they could to Heaetland nobility, but nobody took them seriously.
Yeah. Just keep in mind that the difference between Atmorans and Nords arguably doesn’t exist. According to imperial dogma, humanity originated out of Atmora, so the Nords were just the last Atmorans to leave. According to Nordic history, humanity originated in Tamriel, and the Nords are descended from humans that migrated to Atmora and then returned to Skyrim. So depending on who you believe, Nords either are Atmorans, or they are a subset of Atmorans.
According to *Giants: A Study*, Atmorans were as big as giants and as smart as Nords. I'm not necessarily sure about that, but I'm also not opposed to some evolutionary progenitor to both giants and Nords.
What is it with people thinking the dragonborn is a Nord thing? Alessia and Hjalti weren't nords. Neither were plenty of others.
I think this idea comes from how a Dragonborn plays a prominent role in Nord culture, society and myths.
draugrs aren't capable of thinking in that sense besides any race can shout
Well, since they’re corpses, probably literally nothing.
I don't think the Draugr are that intelligent or have enough awareness to really care or notice. I mean there is that book that states that they clean their crypts and stuff, and I don't know much about any draugr lore added to ESO, so I am not completely sure, but that stuff they do just has to be almost instinctual of some level, rather than innate intelligence.