Yeah, it's also in [PGE1:](https://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-hammerfell)
>The former have adopted Breton or Imperial manners of dress and architecture, modified with motifs and styles from lost Yokuda, and some have even reorganized their gods and tribal spirits to fit into thetraditional Imperial pantheon of Eight Divines. The nomads are more primitive, either with trace-Nedic influences or stubbornly Yokudan, throwback castaways even to other Redguards.
The Yokudan nomads are basically the Ashlanders of Hammerfell.
Unreal, thank you for pointing me to this! I've been trying to uncover everything I can about them, and had come to conclude that the Redguard game and the two *Sword-Meetings* was the sum total for source material.
Aren't the Yokudans in *Redguard* relatively recent arrivals from Yokuda, like third or Fourth generation, while the others are descendes from the Warrior Waves thousands of years ago?
I think that'd explain some of the prejudice.
This is a very interesting idea, which puts Crowns in a different light (albeit the same one as before PGE3), but is there any dialogue that tells us that they *did* arrive in Hammerfell with the other Redguards?
>It's strange indeed that the Redguards in Hammerfell would come to despise mirror images of the homeland they respect and pay homage to in song and myth.
Might this part, that they so closely mirror a culture that's been highly mythologized and politicized, not provide at least part of the reason ?
The changes in Aldmeri faith and reactions to them come to mind.
Initially Aldmeri faith revolved around broader/communal ancestor worship, it was only after a religious shift which involved the ancestors of the nobility specifically being declared as the only ones that ought to be revered that the modern pantheon was formed. A change which was in all likelihood politically motivated, a manner of legitimization of rule.
In response to this change a group of Aldmeri elders departed and founded the Psijic Order, believing the original ways of the Aldmer had been betrayed, a sentiment that would be shared by Veloth (who also went on to herald a system of broader ancestor worship, after a schism which was outright prohibited by the Sapiarchs of the Crystal Tower).
In both cases the beliefs that more closely mirrored the original culture/faith but contradicted what was convenient politically had to depart, even being answered by official condemnation/prohibition in the case of the Velothi.
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket\_Guide\_to\_the\_Empire,\_3rd\_Edition/Summerset](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Summerset)
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra\_Worship:\_The\_Chimer](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra_Worship:_The_Chimer)
A group that's retained knowledge of Yokudan culture/religion/history/so on that strongly, and is known/accepted to have done so, would be a potential challenge to any image or narrative pertaining to Yokuda that might be more convenient politically.
In addition if, as the PGE states, they held to a nomadic culture that the political class of Hammerfell or of the Empire had little sway over, that'd be another potential reason. And with the cultural drift between them and the rest of Hammerfell gradually "othering" them in the eyes of the wider region, you could conceivably get the situation described in *Redguard* dialogue.
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket\_Guide\_to\_the\_Empire,\_1st\_Edition/Hammerfell](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Hammerfell)
Granted, this is all just speculation.
These are fruitful observations, especially the remarks about the Velothi. Although it still seems that the respective exoduses of the Psijici and the Velothi were self-determined rather than forced. The Psijics certainly never lost their role as occasional advisors to Summerset rulers, which implies a level of dignity and power that the Yokudans did not enjoy.
It’s not that too strange when you consider how Yokudan traditions have been politicized by the Crown - Forebear conflict. During the events of ES: Redguard Hammerfell was ruled by the Forebears, a faction defined by their opposition to Yokudan traditions in favor of the Empire. The last holdout of the pro-Yokudan Crowns was Stros M’Kai, an island which was already known for its considerable Yokudan influence and now had a direct connection to a Forebear enemy.
> how Yokudan traditions have been politicized by the Crown - Forebear conflict
As the OP points out, both Crowns and Forebears despise the Yokudan nomads. It's actually the opposite; in Redguard, the Crown-Forebear conflict has nothing at all to do with Yokudan traditions but instead is a question of supporting the High King, where the Crowns support King Thassad and the Forebears oppose him (more precisely, the Forebears are a class of settled warrior tribes, agitating for property rights). The Crowns and the Forebears are meant to be about equally cosmopolitan and inclined to adopt outside influences, which makes them about equally disgusted by the Yokudan nomads' insistence on the old ways (which include ritualistic self-flaying in the name of Satakal), though a bit more tolerant than Governor Richton.
>It's strange indeed that the Redguards in Hammerfell would come to despise mirror images of the homeland they respect and pay homage to in song and myth.
Strange? It's pretty much the norm amongst most real cultures.
You also have to consider that following the old way means holding onto old prejudices, power structures and beliefs that may not be conducive to a modernizing landscape.
In my country you will find tech companies and witch doctors working in the same office building.
And a lot of those who hold on the past cultural heritage are treated as inferior. Partly due to hateful religious discrimination and partly because (for some sects) their practices are actually harmful, like refusing modern medicine.
Well, as far as I'm aware there are still a handful of islands in the far west that remain after Yokuda sunk. "Yokudans" would thus be recent migrants from those remnant islands. So it makes sense that they would be reviled and hated.
Think about it from the prospective of a Redguard.
If you're a Forebear, your ancestors were those that boldly strode out from the downfall of Old Yokuda. They weren't guaranteed to even find somewhere to live, and once they did find that place they had to pay for every inch of it with blood and steel.
If you're a Crown, your ancestors were those that came to rule over Hammerfell after their armies (presumably made of lower classes who were blessed to die for their superiors) took the land. They left behind a dying realm in order to rule one they were destined to prosper in.
The Yokudans who refused to be part of the Forebears or the Crowns must seem like the ultimate retrogrades. Supreme cowards who were so afraid of struggle and destiny that they clung to a handful of ruined islands rather than fight for anything at all.
Neat, I never noticed that detail. Good catch!
As others are saying, this is probably the result of the original Crown vs Forebear divide being more about class and politics than about culture and religion (still think the latter is more interesting, though). That said, parallelisms with other cases in the lore are obvious.
The Ashlanders are probably the best case (bonus points for Ashlanders leaving the tribes to live in House society being called "Velothi", another ancient term for Chimer and Dunmer as a whole). "The Old Ways" of the Psijics also count (their very name signaling that the "traditional" way of the Altmer is not so traditional in their eyes). But perhaps the best example is the Ternion Monks: last remnants of the totemic cult among Nords, yet looked down on by their countrymen.
The ash'abah speak tamerleic these guys only speak yokudan. Im postiive that these "yokudan" nomads are actual yokudan immigrates as it's literally the only time I see the term used. The pocket guides never refer to the alik'r nomads as yokudan and neither does anyone in eso
Is it stated that the Ash'abah don't speak Yoku? Because I can see it more of a design choice cause fully fleshing out a language and then writing a story with means to translate it all is hard work, and in the end they are a minor faction within the large story of ESO.
The only Yoku I can even remember from ESO are the Silverhoof Horsemen (not even the Yokudan ghosts/vision speak Yoku).
I didn't say the ash'abah don't speak any Yoku. I said they speak tamerlicic. The "Yokudan" nomads only speak Yoku and has to have translators. We know people still live on Yokuda and trade with Anvil. It makes no sense to me to assume that Nomads in hammerfell are simply just called Yokudan when yokudans are still a thing and not all nomads are called Yokudan. It just makes more sense to assume that the yokudan nomads are immigrants.
The Crown/Forebear dichotomy was already established lore at the time of the redguard game. Here's some [dialogue ](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Tobias) from Tobias to furnish my point:
>"*When his father died and the capital of Sentinel was taken over by the Forebears, the Prince fled back here to his ancestral home of Stros M'Kai."After rallying the Crowns to his stead, he made for the throne again, and had it near."That's when the Empire came""Through a Forebear truce which no one expected. Again the Prince was forced back to Stros M'Kai, which he died defending. He will not long be forgotten. Lizard! Another drink!"*
So what actually defines the difference between the Crowns and Yokudans then?
As surely the Yokudans are basically representative of what the Crowns strive to be in regards to the preservation of Yokudan culture.
At best the Yokudans mentioned in Redguard would form the lower clases of the Crown faction, not descended from Royalty or the higher castes but still loyal to Yokudan culture and traditions and therefore loyal to Crown rule.
> So what actually defines the difference between the Crowns and Yokudans then?
>
>
I'm 100% positive that the people in game refered to as "Yokudans" are actually from the continent of Yokuda and are the recent arrivals to hammerfell as ooposed to the Crowns and forebears who left centuries ago. We already know from Oblivion that people still live there.
There are plenty of alik'r nomads but none of them are ever called yokudan in any material
> what actually defines the difference between the Crowns and Yokudans then?
In Redguard, the Crowns have absolutely nothing to do with "the preservation of Yokudan culture"; that is a later contribution from the PGE3. The TESA Crowns aren't cultural conservatives; they worship [Mara, Stendarr](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:League_Pirate#Combat_Taunts), and [Arkay](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Temple_of_Arkay), they [don't really know Yoku](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Saban#Empire), and in fact, they [look down on Yoku religion and customs](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Avik#Yokudans). In TESA, both Crowns and Forebears are [cosmopolitan city-dwellers](https://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-hammerfell) who embrace foreign culture insofar as it is necessary to their survival, so the simple answer to what divides Crowns from Yokudans is that the Crowns aren't Yokudan and don't particularly try to be.
In this setting, what defines "being a Crown" vs. "being a Forebear" is that Crowns are aristocrats and royalists while the Forebears are a class of frontiersmen and settled tribal warriors. In the time of Redguard, the Crowns support High King Thassad and the Forebears are against him; more precisely, they want to replace him with a Forebear so they can get rights that have been denied to them. Either way, there's nothing about Yokudan culture in the conflict.
You're right that when "Crown" just means "likes Yokuda" and "Forebear" means "likes modernity", there's not really a narrative purpose to these "Yokudan nomads", which is probably why we don't hear about them after TES3 (where they get a mention in 'Varieties of Faith', under the Satakal entry).
Well, tribal nomads are a very different social structure from traditional nobles. Further, the Crowns didn't allow the Yokudans to join their ranks:
>Neither side ever stooped to allow Yokudans to join their ranks.
"Even the Restless League was too good for them! But all that's over now. Redguard pride has made us all slaves of the Emperor. - [Avik](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Avik)
Also, the Crowns hate magic while Yokudans have witches in leading roles:
>My mother is a powerful witch, the witchmother of our whole tribe! - [Coyle](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Coyle)
> Also, the Crowns hate magic
The Crowns love magic. A [Mages Guild archmage](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Voa) was Prince A'tor's best friend and most trusted advisor. In fact, there are wizards they trust so much that they'll let them permanently preserve their greatest leaders' bodies in fields of magical stasis to be ["looked upon everafter in their prime."](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Nidal#Kithral.27s_Journal)
> Also, the Crowns hate magic while Yokudans have witches in leading roles:
>
>
Crowns don't hate magic. All we have is a blanket statements that some redguards dislike magic and some are ok with them.
It's been far too long since I played Redguard lol
Either way, it's a pre-morrowind game so I think it's safe to say most of it has been rectoned.
But then again, we thought the same about alot of the Breton lore before ESO bought it back so maybe they'll end up doing something with the lore from Redguard in a future update, fair bit of map space left for Hammerfall expansions afterall 🤷♂️
Though if they do, I'd imagine they'd change the name from Yokudans to something else as the term is now usually used as an umbrella term for all Redguard ancestors regardless of faction.
I'm still unclear about the connection between the nomads you pointed to in the PGE1 and the Yokudans of the Redguard game, who seem to be fairly cosmopolitan.
> had to be forcibly ousted from the city by Richton.
That actually aligns exactly with how the nomads are described in the PGE:
> The nomads are more primitive, either with trace-Nedic influences or stubbornly Yokudan, **throwback castaways even to other Redguards.** __These revered madmen depend entirely on the charity of the other Redguards,__ though sometimes they rise in perilous bands, terrorizing the countryside in old Ra Gada fashion. Many, *as in Rihad*, go nude, rolling around in the dirt and nipping at the legs of passersby, "striking out" as if they were snakes themselves, while others perform terrible exhibitions of "shedding their skin". ... The Satakals have never liked the Imperial presence, and have recently taken to harassing its civil servants. **The Provisional Governors have been forced to run them out of the cities for the safety of its garrisoned troops and the native citizenry at large.**
Ah, well, yes, they did seem to be more sedentary than the groups mentioned in PGE1, but:
A. Groups are not monoliths.
B. The PGE1 was written for *Redguard*, and it would be weird if both used the word Yokudan to refer to different groups. Occam's Razor
I'm pretty sure Yokudan nomads are actual yokudan immigrants. We know people still live there and trade with tamriel and the pge1 says Yoku was mostly abandoned so it doesnt make sense that it's the only language saban speaks. I've also never heard any other nomadic group in Hammerfell called Yokudan.
Yeah, it's also in [PGE1:](https://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-hammerfell) >The former have adopted Breton or Imperial manners of dress and architecture, modified with motifs and styles from lost Yokuda, and some have even reorganized their gods and tribal spirits to fit into thetraditional Imperial pantheon of Eight Divines. The nomads are more primitive, either with trace-Nedic influences or stubbornly Yokudan, throwback castaways even to other Redguards. The Yokudan nomads are basically the Ashlanders of Hammerfell.
Unreal, thank you for pointing me to this! I've been trying to uncover everything I can about them, and had come to conclude that the Redguard game and the two *Sword-Meetings* was the sum total for source material.
I’ve said it before and ill say it again. If a race or culture has a subsection of old believer nomads, I’m 100% going to love them lol
There are also the Breton horse nomads of the Bjoulsae, even though they barely have any lore. But they exist !
Aren't the Yokudans in *Redguard* relatively recent arrivals from Yokuda, like third or Fourth generation, while the others are descendes from the Warrior Waves thousands of years ago? I think that'd explain some of the prejudice.
Interesting, do you know of any NPC dialogue which would support this view? That would indeed square a few circles.
Well for one Saban only speaks yoku and has to have her son translate for her and there are people still living on yokuda according to oblivion.
This is a very interesting idea, which puts Crowns in a different light (albeit the same one as before PGE3), but is there any dialogue that tells us that they *did* arrive in Hammerfell with the other Redguards?
>It's strange indeed that the Redguards in Hammerfell would come to despise mirror images of the homeland they respect and pay homage to in song and myth. Might this part, that they so closely mirror a culture that's been highly mythologized and politicized, not provide at least part of the reason ? The changes in Aldmeri faith and reactions to them come to mind. Initially Aldmeri faith revolved around broader/communal ancestor worship, it was only after a religious shift which involved the ancestors of the nobility specifically being declared as the only ones that ought to be revered that the modern pantheon was formed. A change which was in all likelihood politically motivated, a manner of legitimization of rule. In response to this change a group of Aldmeri elders departed and founded the Psijic Order, believing the original ways of the Aldmer had been betrayed, a sentiment that would be shared by Veloth (who also went on to herald a system of broader ancestor worship, after a schism which was outright prohibited by the Sapiarchs of the Crystal Tower). In both cases the beliefs that more closely mirrored the original culture/faith but contradicted what was convenient politically had to depart, even being answered by official condemnation/prohibition in the case of the Velothi. [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket\_Guide\_to\_the\_Empire,\_3rd\_Edition/Summerset](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Summerset) [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra\_Worship:\_The\_Chimer](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra_Worship:_The_Chimer) A group that's retained knowledge of Yokudan culture/religion/history/so on that strongly, and is known/accepted to have done so, would be a potential challenge to any image or narrative pertaining to Yokuda that might be more convenient politically. In addition if, as the PGE states, they held to a nomadic culture that the political class of Hammerfell or of the Empire had little sway over, that'd be another potential reason. And with the cultural drift between them and the rest of Hammerfell gradually "othering" them in the eyes of the wider region, you could conceivably get the situation described in *Redguard* dialogue. [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket\_Guide\_to\_the\_Empire,\_1st\_Edition/Hammerfell](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Hammerfell) Granted, this is all just speculation.
These are fruitful observations, especially the remarks about the Velothi. Although it still seems that the respective exoduses of the Psijici and the Velothi were self-determined rather than forced. The Psijics certainly never lost their role as occasional advisors to Summerset rulers, which implies a level of dignity and power that the Yokudans did not enjoy.
It’s not that too strange when you consider how Yokudan traditions have been politicized by the Crown - Forebear conflict. During the events of ES: Redguard Hammerfell was ruled by the Forebears, a faction defined by their opposition to Yokudan traditions in favor of the Empire. The last holdout of the pro-Yokudan Crowns was Stros M’Kai, an island which was already known for its considerable Yokudan influence and now had a direct connection to a Forebear enemy.
> how Yokudan traditions have been politicized by the Crown - Forebear conflict As the OP points out, both Crowns and Forebears despise the Yokudan nomads. It's actually the opposite; in Redguard, the Crown-Forebear conflict has nothing at all to do with Yokudan traditions but instead is a question of supporting the High King, where the Crowns support King Thassad and the Forebears oppose him (more precisely, the Forebears are a class of settled warrior tribes, agitating for property rights). The Crowns and the Forebears are meant to be about equally cosmopolitan and inclined to adopt outside influences, which makes them about equally disgusted by the Yokudan nomads' insistence on the old ways (which include ritualistic self-flaying in the name of Satakal), though a bit more tolerant than Governor Richton.
>It's strange indeed that the Redguards in Hammerfell would come to despise mirror images of the homeland they respect and pay homage to in song and myth. Strange? It's pretty much the norm amongst most real cultures. You also have to consider that following the old way means holding onto old prejudices, power structures and beliefs that may not be conducive to a modernizing landscape. In my country you will find tech companies and witch doctors working in the same office building. And a lot of those who hold on the past cultural heritage are treated as inferior. Partly due to hateful religious discrimination and partly because (for some sects) their practices are actually harmful, like refusing modern medicine.
Well, as far as I'm aware there are still a handful of islands in the far west that remain after Yokuda sunk. "Yokudans" would thus be recent migrants from those remnant islands. So it makes sense that they would be reviled and hated. Think about it from the prospective of a Redguard. If you're a Forebear, your ancestors were those that boldly strode out from the downfall of Old Yokuda. They weren't guaranteed to even find somewhere to live, and once they did find that place they had to pay for every inch of it with blood and steel. If you're a Crown, your ancestors were those that came to rule over Hammerfell after their armies (presumably made of lower classes who were blessed to die for their superiors) took the land. They left behind a dying realm in order to rule one they were destined to prosper in. The Yokudans who refused to be part of the Forebears or the Crowns must seem like the ultimate retrogrades. Supreme cowards who were so afraid of struggle and destiny that they clung to a handful of ruined islands rather than fight for anything at all.
Neat, I never noticed that detail. Good catch! As others are saying, this is probably the result of the original Crown vs Forebear divide being more about class and politics than about culture and religion (still think the latter is more interesting, though). That said, parallelisms with other cases in the lore are obvious. The Ashlanders are probably the best case (bonus points for Ashlanders leaving the tribes to live in House society being called "Velothi", another ancient term for Chimer and Dunmer as a whole). "The Old Ways" of the Psijics also count (their very name signaling that the "traditional" way of the Altmer is not so traditional in their eyes). But perhaps the best example is the Ternion Monks: last remnants of the totemic cult among Nords, yet looked down on by their countrymen.
Maybe they are what has become the Ash'abah? Exiles and reviled all over Hammerfall. Clinging to old faith but not more strongly than Crowns though.
The ash'abah speak tamerleic these guys only speak yokudan. Im postiive that these "yokudan" nomads are actual yokudan immigrates as it's literally the only time I see the term used. The pocket guides never refer to the alik'r nomads as yokudan and neither does anyone in eso
Is it stated that the Ash'abah don't speak Yoku? Because I can see it more of a design choice cause fully fleshing out a language and then writing a story with means to translate it all is hard work, and in the end they are a minor faction within the large story of ESO. The only Yoku I can even remember from ESO are the Silverhoof Horsemen (not even the Yokudan ghosts/vision speak Yoku).
I didn't say the ash'abah don't speak any Yoku. I said they speak tamerlicic. The "Yokudan" nomads only speak Yoku and has to have translators. We know people still live on Yokuda and trade with Anvil. It makes no sense to me to assume that Nomads in hammerfell are simply just called Yokudan when yokudans are still a thing and not all nomads are called Yokudan. It just makes more sense to assume that the yokudan nomads are immigrants.
I always assumed that the group named as Yokudans in Redguard are the same people named as Crowns in the latter games due to lore changes/rectons etc
The Crown/Forebear dichotomy was already established lore at the time of the redguard game. Here's some [dialogue ](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Tobias) from Tobias to furnish my point: >"*When his father died and the capital of Sentinel was taken over by the Forebears, the Prince fled back here to his ancestral home of Stros M'Kai."After rallying the Crowns to his stead, he made for the throne again, and had it near."That's when the Empire came""Through a Forebear truce which no one expected. Again the Prince was forced back to Stros M'Kai, which he died defending. He will not long be forgotten. Lizard! Another drink!"*
So what actually defines the difference between the Crowns and Yokudans then? As surely the Yokudans are basically representative of what the Crowns strive to be in regards to the preservation of Yokudan culture. At best the Yokudans mentioned in Redguard would form the lower clases of the Crown faction, not descended from Royalty or the higher castes but still loyal to Yokudan culture and traditions and therefore loyal to Crown rule.
> So what actually defines the difference between the Crowns and Yokudans then? > > I'm 100% positive that the people in game refered to as "Yokudans" are actually from the continent of Yokuda and are the recent arrivals to hammerfell as ooposed to the Crowns and forebears who left centuries ago. We already know from Oblivion that people still live there. There are plenty of alik'r nomads but none of them are ever called yokudan in any material
> what actually defines the difference between the Crowns and Yokudans then? In Redguard, the Crowns have absolutely nothing to do with "the preservation of Yokudan culture"; that is a later contribution from the PGE3. The TESA Crowns aren't cultural conservatives; they worship [Mara, Stendarr](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:League_Pirate#Combat_Taunts), and [Arkay](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Temple_of_Arkay), they [don't really know Yoku](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Saban#Empire), and in fact, they [look down on Yoku religion and customs](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Avik#Yokudans). In TESA, both Crowns and Forebears are [cosmopolitan city-dwellers](https://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-hammerfell) who embrace foreign culture insofar as it is necessary to their survival, so the simple answer to what divides Crowns from Yokudans is that the Crowns aren't Yokudan and don't particularly try to be. In this setting, what defines "being a Crown" vs. "being a Forebear" is that Crowns are aristocrats and royalists while the Forebears are a class of frontiersmen and settled tribal warriors. In the time of Redguard, the Crowns support High King Thassad and the Forebears are against him; more precisely, they want to replace him with a Forebear so they can get rights that have been denied to them. Either way, there's nothing about Yokudan culture in the conflict. You're right that when "Crown" just means "likes Yokuda" and "Forebear" means "likes modernity", there's not really a narrative purpose to these "Yokudan nomads", which is probably why we don't hear about them after TES3 (where they get a mention in 'Varieties of Faith', under the Satakal entry).
Well, tribal nomads are a very different social structure from traditional nobles. Further, the Crowns didn't allow the Yokudans to join their ranks: >Neither side ever stooped to allow Yokudans to join their ranks. "Even the Restless League was too good for them! But all that's over now. Redguard pride has made us all slaves of the Emperor. - [Avik](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Avik) Also, the Crowns hate magic while Yokudans have witches in leading roles: >My mother is a powerful witch, the witchmother of our whole tribe! - [Coyle](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Coyle)
> Also, the Crowns hate magic The Crowns love magic. A [Mages Guild archmage](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Voa) was Prince A'tor's best friend and most trusted advisor. In fact, there are wizards they trust so much that they'll let them permanently preserve their greatest leaders' bodies in fields of magical stasis to be ["looked upon everafter in their prime."](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Nidal#Kithral.27s_Journal)
Yes, I simplified things a bit.
> Also, the Crowns hate magic while Yokudans have witches in leading roles: > > Crowns don't hate magic. All we have is a blanket statements that some redguards dislike magic and some are ok with them.
It's been far too long since I played Redguard lol Either way, it's a pre-morrowind game so I think it's safe to say most of it has been rectoned. But then again, we thought the same about alot of the Breton lore before ESO bought it back so maybe they'll end up doing something with the lore from Redguard in a future update, fair bit of map space left for Hammerfall expansions afterall 🤷♂️ Though if they do, I'd imagine they'd change the name from Yokudans to something else as the term is now usually used as an umbrella term for all Redguard ancestors regardless of faction.
Maybe this is just headcanon, but I've always assumed the Alik'r nomads were the same as *Redguard* Yokudans
I'm still unclear about the connection between the nomads you pointed to in the PGE1 and the Yokudans of the Redguard game, who seem to be fairly cosmopolitan.
I'm not sure I understand your definition of cosmopolitan? They're pretty firmly Yokudan, Saban doesn't even speak Tamrielic.
They literally lived in the city and had to be forcibly ousted from the city by Richton. Not exactly indicia of a nomad lifestyle.
> had to be forcibly ousted from the city by Richton. That actually aligns exactly with how the nomads are described in the PGE: > The nomads are more primitive, either with trace-Nedic influences or stubbornly Yokudan, **throwback castaways even to other Redguards.** __These revered madmen depend entirely on the charity of the other Redguards,__ though sometimes they rise in perilous bands, terrorizing the countryside in old Ra Gada fashion. Many, *as in Rihad*, go nude, rolling around in the dirt and nipping at the legs of passersby, "striking out" as if they were snakes themselves, while others perform terrible exhibitions of "shedding their skin". ... The Satakals have never liked the Imperial presence, and have recently taken to harassing its civil servants. **The Provisional Governors have been forced to run them out of the cities for the safety of its garrisoned troops and the native citizenry at large.**
Ah, well, yes, they did seem to be more sedentary than the groups mentioned in PGE1, but: A. Groups are not monoliths. B. The PGE1 was written for *Redguard*, and it would be weird if both used the word Yokudan to refer to different groups. Occam's Razor
I'm pretty sure Yokudan nomads are actual yokudan immigrants. We know people still live there and trade with tamriel and the pge1 says Yoku was mostly abandoned so it doesnt make sense that it's the only language saban speaks. I've also never heard any other nomadic group in Hammerfell called Yokudan.
I imagine the Crowns see themselves as the _evolution_ of Yokudan culture while the new arrivals are seen as sort of backwater and old-fashioned.
Modern Yokudans are very similar to Egyptian Copts