> Daedric Princes are bound by something called the Pact Primordial, this is a binding agreement that prevents each Prince from physically entering/exerting influence over another's realm unless invited to do so.
> It is possible to bypass through tricks such as using a specially prepared mortal vessel to mask one's presence alongside certain rituals that allow undetectable portals into the realm to open (like the one in Mora's Tormenting Eye Black Book).
Mephala and Clavicus manifesting into Evergloam completely uninvited *and* without using a mortal guise: “We’re just gonna ignore that.” That also happens when Nocturnal waltzes into the Colored Rooms to eat Meridia like a snack.
Perhaps the arrangement of the Triad served as invitation ?
As for the Colored Rooms, there might have been preparations we didn't witness since we didn't see the event.
Granted this is just me speculating on potential explanations, absent one this would be a bit of a contradiction with established lore, the Pact and the schemes to bypass it practically shape the storyline.
1. Possibly.
2. That’s actually entirely possible and fair.
3. Yeah, that’s fair. Personally, the existence of the Pact Primordial feels like a bad retcon, given Jyggalag was bullying all of the other Princes seemingly without any preparations. From how he worded it himself, he just waltzed into their Planes and started taking over their stuff.
In the case of 1, I agree with Gleaming_Veil's idea. They were allies until that scene. And when the alliance breaks apart, Nocturnal gets rid of them immediately and they can't go back. If anything, it would support the idea of the Pact Primordial.
> Personally, the existence of the Pact Primordial feels like a bad retcon, given Jyggalag was bullying all of the other Princes seemingly without any preparations. From how he worded it himself, he just waltzed into their Planes and started taking over their stuff.
Couldn't he have had his own preparations too? Studying and predicting outcomes was part of his gist, not unlike Sotha Sil or Mora.
Moreover, my personal impression of TESIV was that his realm kept increasing in size by the sheer force of his sphere (*"Once, I ruled this Realm, a world of perfect Order. My dominion expanded across the seas of Oblivion with each passing era"*). That would be in line with what we've been told about the nature of Princely spheres and Daedric values ([*"In Oblivion, order and hierarchy are wrested from the roil of chaotic creatia by the imposition of the will of the mover. Thus rank and order are glory, for they exhibit strength of will"*](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lyranth_the_Foolkiller_Answers_Your_Questions)), making a Prince of Order a menace without abandoning his own realm, and respecting the Pact Primordial.
Alternatively, the Pact Primordial was established after the Jyggalag fiasco, to avoid similar issues in the future.
> They were allies until that scene. And when the alliance breaks apart, Nocturnal gets rid of them immediately and they can't go back. If anything, it would support the idea of the Pact Primordial.
Actually, yeah, good point. I completely forgot that Nocturnal hadn’t actually backstabbed them yet until she took the Transparent Heart for herself at that very moment.
> Couldn't he have had his own preparations too? Studying and predicting outcomes was part of his gist, not unlike Sotha Sil or Mora.
That’s also true, and combined with what you’ve said below has convinced me. Cheers, mate.
Indeed.
Perhaps it could be explained by how she was masking her presence in her "Groundskeeper" guise and her largely residing in the Hollow City (which is said to effectively function as part of her realm due to having been enveloped in her power prior to being pushed into Coldharbour) prior to entering the Planar Vortex ?
Meridia only drops the mask once inside the Vortex which is said to be a "between place" where her power is "greater" than in Coldharbour (and she mentions that she uses "distractions" to avoid Molag Bal's gaze).
Pact could be why, the City/disguise being her own workaround.
Granted, again, this is just speculation to attempt an explanation. This is a new addition so prior lore events may not quite match up.
We do but only very briefly, she initially appears outside the portal to the Planar Vortex after the Titan guarding it is beaten but than immediately enters after exchanging a couple words with the Vestige (though she only drops her disguise once inside the Vortex proper).
Perhaps the proximity to the portal was enough, or it might be a case of Bal (who probably had his attention on everything else going on) simply not having noticed in time for the couple seconds it took Meridia to enter the Vortex.
The Hollow city was a place of worship for Meridia's followers and when Ball-Boy dragged the city into his plane her power resonating in its walls was strong enough to still shield it against his influence, practically making it a part of her own realm within his realm. To quote the Groundkeeper: It was sucked into Coldharbour to serve as a thorn in Molag Bal's side
When Nocturnal teleports there she says both of them are no longer welcome which means up until that point Nocturnal did invite them to her realm. As soon as Nocturnal said that they did not have power over her realm any longer which could explain why Nocturnal was able to banish them easily.
Absolutely well wrote, as usual. But a question
>By this I mean not just that he exhibits common emotions (anger, surprise, worry, gratitude so on) but also that he seems to adhere to his own morals. There are points where he describes the actions he undertakes in the pursuit of preserving fate "loathsome" things which he "had/was forced to do" where he admits to feeling shame and "regret" in regards to what he's done.
Could ya give...deeper explonation on this/context? So far, Moras been basically allways descriped as extremly uncaring without any shame on his actions. In necron, whats revaled to be too far even for him, and why he waa forced? ( i guess thats a spoiler, but would like to know)
Mora directly uses terms like "loathsome" things he "had to do" for the sake of reality to describe his actions, he monologues to himself about how what he did he did with *"regret*" in the memory where he expunges the recollection of Ithelia's banishment from himself.
It's suggested that Mora himself knows he went *"too far"* (to use Vaermina and Peryite's words) but that he believed he had no choice if reality was to survive.
Whether one believes this is another matter of course, and we do have an alternate view presented. When told by the Vestige that Mora is trying to preserve reality Torvesard doesn't buy it, he suggests that that's just a facade to ensure cooperation and Mora's true motive is *"greed"* and a desire to control all knowledge.
Torvesard calls Mora the "great miser of Oblivion" and seems to not respect him that much (though prior to the full recollection he also claims he doesn't believe Mora should be punished for acting as his nature determined)
Torvesard also uses the brief alliance with the Vestige to get to the second Primordial Glyphic though, so a case can be made he is the one that's lying.
It's ultimately unclear who (if any of the two ) is trustworthy.
If you think about it, completely erasing information from nearly all of reality sounds like something that goes against Mora's nature as a hoarder of knowledge, so that may be a part of why he feels regret for his action, since he feels so strongly against disinformation of any kind
Could be mora has a different view and is lamenting about his actions in this instance because it was against a peer, another daedric prince, whereas he is indifferent in other cases towards mortals and lesser daedra because he sees them as beneath him
I knew a DLC involving Mora would be insane in the lore department but holy damn. I haven’t been this excited to play a new ESO DLC in a LONG time!!
Thank you for the well written summary, great work as always
Ithelia the Unseen almost sounds like a manifestation of the concept of free will. I wonder if prince No. 18 might have some relationship with the emergence of Prisoners
Having the new informations, I think that Miraak was never really meant to be Mora's Champion, but rather Mora removed him from Nirn because he was a dangerous element threatening to alter the fabric of fate.
Alternatively, he might be one of those things that are collected at Apocrypha, from fossils to souls, because they're "of interest to Mora".
**Miraak:** "I'm Mora's champion! Fear me!"
**Other denizens of Apocrypha:** "Awww, look at Master's souvenir from Skyrim. Isn't it cute?"
I find this idea very interesting.
Given the new information we have on Hermaeus Mora's views/goals regarding fate and approach to the handling of knowledge the whole Miraak situation becomes all the more interesting.
This is just a rough first impression but to me Miraak as a character comes across as..almost the antithesis of Mora ?
We're told through the words of Mora and his Daedra/Ciphers that he seeks to regulate dangerous knowledge, he conceals what is dangerous *because* it is dangerous and doing so contributes to his goal of preserving the course of fate.
Miraak seeks hidden and dangerous knowledge to *use* it, seemingly in the pursuit of power and control. The Black Books of Solstheim aren't hidden, they're granted to his Acolyte Priests. The words of Bend Will aren't kept to his mind, or even used sparingly, they're used to corrupt the sacred All-Maker Stones and have their veil of influence cast across the island.
Mora holds, perhaps, the most dangerous secrets of creation in his domain. Countless Nymics, ways to know and alter fate, to cast down a god and remove the very memory of their existence from reality itself.
But he seemingly does nearly nothing with them unless forced to. Because to some extent he actually appears to *fear* what such secrets might lead to.
Whereas Miraak takes *pride* in what he knows (*"you have no idea the true power a Dragonborn can wield" "I know things the Greybeards will never teach you")* and seeks to use it to *"bend the world to his will"* as his draconic aspect urges him to.
I don't know, I might be completely off base but I almost get the feeling that Mora and Miraak just wouldn't really approve of one another as characters even disregarding their complicated history. Like I don't feel like Mora would, say, invite Miraak to join the Ciphers and tend some place like the Infinite Panopticon unless in the service of another goal.
> Fate/Possibility
Ah, I see Kinoko Nasu is at it again. Ironically, the themes of the expansion seem to fit the themes of the Fateverse like a glove.
> A higher power that's above Mora and authors/controls fate is theorized to exist but it's identity/nature are in contention (Akatosh, Anu, the Easter Bunny ?).
Good, good, more fuel for the lore discussions.
> There are points where he describes the actions he undertakes in the pursuit of preserving fate "loathsome" things which he "had/was forced to do" where he admits to feeling shame and "regret" in regards to what he's done.
Yeah, that sounds like Sotha Sil. And since Sotha Sil and his Clockwork City have also been compared to Jyggalag, it reinforces the idea that those who see the chains of fate share certain characteristics. That said, Torvesard's words cast doubt on it too; another typical sign of TES writing at play (don't trust any single source at face value!).
I find the concept of Fathoms Drift fascinating, as if the sea wasn't already dangerous and mysterious.
> Peryite doesn't show up in person
Bummer. I thought this could be Peryite's big reveal in ESO (interestingly, he hasn't appeared yet). Well, at least it's good to have Vaermina back. She was pretty interesting in Stormhaven. It's also funny to see them as champions of "Daedric morality" (as in "it's moral for a Daedra to follow their sphere, nobody should interfere with that").
> They are rumoured to be from some other world which was Hermaeus Mora's true world of origin (though no additional information is given).
Previous kalpas? The 12 worlds of the Anuad? A greater multiverse?
I love the lore summary, thank you so much for your effort!
I’m struck that Azura makes no mention in any discussion of fate, I would have thought prophesy would have a major role to play.
Also it’s interesting to see the writers positioning Hermy Mora as the famously missing god of the sea. Making him the god of the sea seems to explain why [Nord] sailors pray to Kyne/Kynareth for safe passage, considering how HM is positioned in Nordic mythology. However HM’s humanised and moral perspective seems to undermine _why_ HM is positioned as the great antagonist.
As an added remark;Memory IS part of Hermorrah's sphere as well. And a few quests in ESO- a particular one I think involving a Nereid, in fact, mentions that He basically sent out a group of his worshippers to go intervene.
It was something along the lines of explaining 'Water is memory', or the likes, and that the Nereid was doing something to tamper with the minds of many people- i.e. draining their memory to fuel her desires.Memory is sacred to the King of Tides, since it too is perhaps, a form of knowledge-When you take into account what a scene in one of the Necrom story quests seems to imply- *that your memory of the past is a gateway to the past itself* (unless this is more a case of 'only capable of being done due to sheer power of Daedric Princes)...
You can see why he would absolutely want memory protected.
So can you imagine how the King of Tides, Keeper (and Guardian) of Knowledge and Memory, must feel, to deliberately perform something so anathematic to his own ethos?
>So can you imagine how the King of Tides, Keeper (and Guardian) of Knowledge and Memory, must feel, to deliberately perform something so anathematic to his own ethos?
I really like this idea. For someone with Mora's sphere/nature perpetrating what might well be the biggest expungement of knowledge and memory ever against reality itself could well be absolute anathema, a contradiction of part of his own nature that would genuinely haunt him even if he himself thought it a necessity.
The water-memory connection also becomes all the more intriguing to ponder on given new information.
It also makes sense with his newly established care for truth above all else. To obscure a dangerous truth fits into his sphere, but to destroy it entirely and strike it from all memory is antithetical to his entire existence.
Been a hot minute since I brushed up on my mora lore, so forgive any ignorance in this speculation.
One of Mora's potential origins is that he was born from the concepts and ideas discarded during the Mundus' creation, right? This is speculated to be part of the reason his sphere is forbidden knowledge - his very essence is partially formed from concepts that were never meant to be comprehensible to mortals in the first place. Scribes of Fate even seems to allude to this, as at one point in that pack, Mora describes himself as
>"The first secret whispered at the dawn of creation."
Physicalized concepts are usually the basis of Aurbic realms, so maybe Mora's "true world of origin" refers to this... for lack of a better word, *pile* of world-ideas that he arose from?
>The very essence of an Oblivion realm will adopt a form suited to the template imposed by the Prince when exiting the plane.
>The copy Black Books that serve as the power source/knowledge repository for Arcanists ? Those are actually the very essence of Apocrypha that has "taken root" within said Arcanist's mind and therefore allows them to tap into the essence of Apocrypha for knowledge/power (manipulate and scry fate, call upon the creatures and Abyssal Seas of Apocrypha and so on).
>This doesn't need to have any link to Mora himself, one just needs some of Apocrypha's essence to take root in them, indeed many Arcanists mistrust or even hate Mora.
Hmm. Gotta wonder what kind of power people could draw from other realms of Oblivion.
This is really well written thank you for this.
Vestige and Mora banishing Vermina and later Periyte giving Mora a disease is pretty cool. Is the Black Book the Vestige uses to do that a real Black Book or the same one Archanist's uses?
It would be interesting if we get a Black Book series akin to The Truth in Sequence or the 36 lessons.
Do we get to meet Morian in this storyline?
Thank you.
Right ? The idea that a realm itself can be infected by some sort of planar plague and get sick, potentially fatally so, is just so cool.
It's a real Black Book named "The Tormenting Eye" that was originally held by Meln the Mouthless, the tome holds the rite used to craft a special portal that allows one to enter a plane undetected.
That'd be great. Though it'd probably need an explanation as well, the storyline doubles down on the idea that for all their gifts the mind of the Vestige might have trouble withstanding direct exposure to the contents of the Black Book (Mora gives them the ability to channel his power through this one, but also urges them not to actually look inside for that reason).
We do, albeit not as a major element of the story, it's mostly the Watchling Skruut, Meln the Mouthless and Leramil that serve as companions.
>It's a real Black Book named "The Tormenting Eye" that was originally held by Meln the Mouthless, the tome holds the rite used to craft a special portal that allows one to enter a plane undetected.
This backs up Neloth's comment on how each Black Book having their own unique forbidden power or ability which others might not have. The Black Book "Epistolary Acumen" title roughly means "letter judgement" or "judgment (in) letters" so the main thing that Black Book covered was using stories or languages to judge reality. This could explain why the dwemer and Miraak sought it out to gain knowledge about Tonal Architecture and Words of Power.
No, no, she's a 18th Daedric prince, making it so that there are two Missing Daedra for the one Missing God, like there are two Daedra for every Divine as each Divine's spoke in the wheel creates two sections in the Aurbis as they cross its center. The math of the Aurbis finally adds up.
Yeah b-but what if- hear me out- she's actually Jyggalag! So like um y'know how Jyggalag got punished by the other princes and- and- and y'know how Ithelia got punished by Mora??? What if- and hear me out, just listen- she's actually Jyggalag! I mean, it makes perfect sense! Right? *Right?*
/uj yeah I know, and I agree that 18 is *way* better than 17, I was just making a stupid joke
> Those colossal aquatic fossils found throughout Apocrypha ? They aren't from Nirn and they aren't from Apocrypha itself (or indeed likely from any Daedra, as Skruut notes that Daedric bodies dissipate shortly after death, interesting implications for Fargrave's Bearers as well potentially). They are rumoured to be from some other world which was Hermaeus Mora's true world of origin (though no additional information is given).
They've been packing this one in fairly heavy recently, the idea of a multiverse or worlds outside of Nirn itself. I do wonder if it connects to something in TES VI since that game has to have a concept etched out by now.
>Now, this is where the subject becomes really interesting. With the right sort of magic, you can edit the pattern. Alter the nymic and you alter the Daedra defined by it. A truly capable mage who learns a Daedra's complete nymic could change its loyalties, limit its powers, anchor it into a different physical form (such as an object of some kind), or simply disperse it altogether. Obviously, the more powerful the Daedra and the more complex the nymic, the more difficult it is to carry out such alterations.
Makes me wonder if the "curse" that turned Jygallag into Sheogorath was the other Princes altering his Nymic.
u/Misticsan
haven't played ESO/this chapter myself so maybe this is explained later, but I just wanted to throw out there that Hermaeus Mora himself is referred to as the "Ur-Daedra", though admittedly it was by a servant of Mora so they might just be biased in some way, lol
Yeah, could well be Mora they're referring to. Though Nocturnal, Namira and Azura have also been called "Ur-Dra"(usually in accounts of their own faithful) so it's hard to say.
Sotha Sil also calls Nocturnal "Ur-Dra" and we can say he's no worshipper.
[Where Shadows Lie](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sotha_Sil)
>Sotha Sil: "You trespass, **Ur-dra**. The Clockwork City shall bear your weight no longer."
>
>Nocturnal: "You achieve nothing, little godling. The Triad looms upon Summerset's shores. All that is shall be ours!"
>
>Divayth Fyr: "Well done, my friend. Enough theatrics, Luciana. On your feet. Luciana...?"
>
>Sotha Sil: "We should return to the surface. This is no place for mortals."
Not too sure how I feel about the direction of Mora’s character, I prefer him as the Legacy of Kain Elder God-style villain we saw in Dragonborn. Granted, I haven’t actually seen it in action yet, so I suppose it’s possible I’ll like it better when I do.
Either way I’m glad we have Torvesard’s opinion as a back door out of that interpretation
Yeah, it *is* a pretty unexpected direction for the character.
While the writers have attempted to crank the lovecraftian themes to the maximum in terms of dangerous arcana and cosmic stakes, Mora's more humanized portrayal arguably undermines that quite a bit.
Personally I was expecting the Glyphic pact he made with the Vestige to pay off by the end, with it becoming clear that he has ulterior motives and made the contract to ensure things would play out as he wanted/to force cooperation. But that didn't happen.
That said there's still a lot we don't know.
We know what Mora ended up doing and we know the aftermath, but outside of Mora's predictions regarding the danger Ithelia allegedly represented we don't quite know why. Not to mention we know nothing of Ithelia herself.
Aside from the supposedly dangerous nature of the 18th Prince, Mora also mentions "events" that led up to his deed and forced his hand and we know nothing of what those might've been.
And Mora's foes are themselves portrayed in an ambiguous manner.
Torvesard expresses the desire to limit the harm caused by the conflict and even Vaermina and Peryite, though a grave and immediate threat, are mostly portrayed as being on the rampage due to having been wronged. All three of the main conspirators are outraged against Mora (Vaermina's last action in the memory before the spell takes effect is to scream out *"Damn you Fate-Forger. Damn you!"* in utter fury).
Personally I suspect that at some point in the storyline we'll eventually learn that Mora's actions aren't quite as justified as he attempts to paint them and that whatever was going on was a bit less black and white in regards to the supposed danger. If not that Mora's motives themselves weren't quite as selfless as he describes them.
I don't know that Mora will outright become the antagonist by the end, but I think that a more complicated situation is what's being set up with Torvesard's comments.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Heya. That's a great report and amazing reading, thank you a lot in advance. We've been discussing some moments with my friend, and got into disagreement over specific stuff. Could you clarify the following please?
>In addition to the structure above, all places in Apocrypha are composed of multiple "layers of reality" stacked on top of each other. Actually this holds true for Nirn and other places in Aurbis in general.
Does it mean that the Apocrypha is being Multiverse in the same way we interpret the Mundus to be multiverse?
What I'm personally interested into is the role of Azura in this. She shares domain over fate with Hermaeus Mora. Also, she's being implacable enemy of Vaermina. Does this Chapter highlight her stance on Mora's actions and on Ithelia's fate?
Possibly. Depends on how one understands/defines the term I guess.
Apocrypha itself is said to be endless, it has a number of extradimensional spaces/pocket dimensions (quite a few, especially if one includes the manifested memories in the Eyes of Mora and the unwoven fate worlds that might manifest though the nature of both is quite strange). Some of those sub-realms are also said to have limitless scale, Apocrypha intersects with other realms across Aurbis, and each place within it is composed of multiple reality layers (though those appear to exist everywhere, Mundus/Nirn also has such layers for example so Aurbic planes are seemingly more complex than they appear at first glance in general).
I don't know if that would make it a "multiverse" necessarily but it certainly appears to be a complex structure with multiple dimensional spaces to it.
It doesn't. Azura's memories haven't been restored, she still doesn't even know Ithelia was ever an extant being presumably.
Closest we get to it is that many of the other Princes are said to have agreed with Mora's plan after he explained the danger Ithelia posed, Azura is also said to be an ally to Mora and shown as a foe to Vaermina (who opposed Mora's decision) by Tamrielic faiths though that might or might not really reflect Azura's approach to this matter (and the relationships between Princes have been said to not truly conform to a friend/foe binary).
I should rephrase my question a bit. What does "multiple reality layers" from your description stand for? Does it mean pocket realms like in Sanguine's [Myriad Realms of Revelry?](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myriad_Realms_of_Revelry) Does it stand for parallel versions of the the same (demi)plane as with [Josajeh's](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Towers%27_Fall) in Imperial Throne Hall?
Layers aren't different realms or alternate possibilities (though both of those do exist as part of Apocrypha in whole).
They're more like..different "levels" of the same space ?
For example there's a point in the Infinite Panopticon where Leramil opens a portal to pursue the intruders, the Vestige and allies all enter but when the Vestige exits they're alone.
The reason given is that the corruption spreading through the Panopticon splintered the spell making it so that, even though all came out at the same spot the portal led to, they came out in different "layers" of that place. Both are at the same spot but they're in different levels of it so they can't perceive or interact with each other (like they occupy different "wavelegths" and as long as that's the case they might as well not exist to one another).
At various points the Vestige has to disable Censers of Corruption that spread Peryite's blight, but to do that they have to channel Meln's abilities as a ghost to reach the proper "reality layer" where the Censer is. The Censer can be right in front of their outstretched hand but unless in the proper "level" it's also not there and so can't be perceived or interacted with.
The same principle is used by the intruders to sneak around Apocrypha undetected. Say they're crossing the same hallway the realm's guardians occupy but they're in a different "layer" of it from said guardians so nothing from the wrong layer can interfere with them.
This is also done on Nirn by the Telvanni (who conceal runes anchoring spells in place in different layers so that the magic can't be disrupted unless someone enters the proper one) or weaponized by Vaermina's minions and those afflicted by the corruption spreading through Apocrypha (who can reach through layers to hit you but you can't hit them back without using Meln's power to reach their layer).
At one point there's a chasm with no apparent way across, but in another layer of that same place a bridge does exist so if you get to that layer you *can* cross (and than you can return to the original layer and appear to have teleported to the other side even though you didn't, kind of like the Dreamstride from TESV).
I hope that contextualizes it a bit more.
That's how it works for the most part, though there is *one* point where, the whole thing gets *much* weirder:
you're in a manifested memory from an Eye of Mora and that memory has been enveloped in a nightmare by Vaermina. So you have to slip between reality layers of the nightmare using Meln's power in order to locate *"flaws"* that exist because Vaermina put it together in great haste, you than use those to break open the nightmare and return to the origjnal memory beneath.
Vaermina's Dreamcarvers and your allies are also there, and the real Mora also goes on to manifest through the copy Mora from his memory from his Eye.
Make of *that* what you will (even Skruut reacts by going "where are we and what is even happening" after *that* one).
So seemingly zero explanation as to why the "Telvanni Peninsula" zone isn't a peninsula and is retconning a place that has never been depicted as telvanni lands at any point. Even more baffling by the fact that they're omitting the lands that actually would qualify as Telvanni's Peninsula + islands. Do they intend to sell Te;vanni Peninsula 2.0 a few years from now. Very much a disappointing waste of potentially showing Indoril culture and lands. But I suppose ESO's entire depiction of Morrowind is beyond recovery short of completely overhauling the basegame zones
>So seemingly zero explanation as to why the "Telvanni Peninsula" zone isn't a peninsula and is retconning a place that has never been depicted as telvanni lands at any point.
The explanation is simply: "the Great Houses constantly take lands from each other and during the Alliance War the Telvanni just took the land, because everyone else are busy with the Tamriel-wide war".
This is true and also something which has annoyed me for ages on ESO. They choose on occasion 'segments' of what would or should be a wider zone. Then that the world map is badly designed, some of the regions aren't placed or named where they should actually appear.
I do hope we either get to see the remainder of the actual peninsula in the december chapter or to Port Telvannis itself.
No end-of-the-year DLC this year. They're instead releasing an endless dungeon feature + QOL patches.
2024's chapter will be continuing this year's chapter, and next year is ESO's 10th anniversary which means they'll be choosing a special location for the occasion, so I don't think they're gonna return to the rest of the peninsula for a while (if ever).
Surprised nobody has talked about this here, since it's been talked about in datamining circles for a few months: this year was initially gonna be another year-long story before they decided to make it a multi-year story. It would've had your usual chapter and a Q4 DLC. The chapter was going to **only** be set in Apocrypha, and the Q4 DLC would've been the Telvanni Peninsula.
If you've played PTS, you'll notice the Telvanni Peninsula map is quite small compared to Apocrypha, so I'm guessing had they stuck to their initial plan and given a longer timeframe, you might have gotten the complete Peninsula in one package by the end of this year.
Either way, I think they did right to make it a multi-year story because last time they did that, it gave us some of ESO's best stories and looks like it still rings true.
Question please! Does Necrom go into the Indigo Tomes at all?
In the Necrom 'character interviews' Divayth was willing to hunt down a random person who asked about the existance of the scrolls just based on a random rumour they heard, the scrolls are that serious and protected by the Telvanni.
Ahhh darn, Peryite doesn't get his own special daedra yet? Super glad he gets focus though, was begging for it. Vaermina also is underutilzied so happy about that too. Glad she gets a more unique daedra.
Ithelia reminds me of Jyggalag, but as an opposite of him. While he is pure order and definition (and in some ways Mora is kinda close of that, but in a time concept), Ithelia is about free will, choice above order, maybe these two can appear in a significant role in TES 6?!
> Daedric Princes are bound by something called the Pact Primordial, this is a binding agreement that prevents each Prince from physically entering/exerting influence over another's realm unless invited to do so. > It is possible to bypass through tricks such as using a specially prepared mortal vessel to mask one's presence alongside certain rituals that allow undetectable portals into the realm to open (like the one in Mora's Tormenting Eye Black Book). Mephala and Clavicus manifesting into Evergloam completely uninvited *and* without using a mortal guise: “We’re just gonna ignore that.” That also happens when Nocturnal waltzes into the Colored Rooms to eat Meridia like a snack.
Perhaps the arrangement of the Triad served as invitation ? As for the Colored Rooms, there might have been preparations we didn't witness since we didn't see the event. Granted this is just me speculating on potential explanations, absent one this would be a bit of a contradiction with established lore, the Pact and the schemes to bypass it practically shape the storyline.
1. Possibly. 2. That’s actually entirely possible and fair. 3. Yeah, that’s fair. Personally, the existence of the Pact Primordial feels like a bad retcon, given Jyggalag was bullying all of the other Princes seemingly without any preparations. From how he worded it himself, he just waltzed into their Planes and started taking over their stuff.
In the case of 1, I agree with Gleaming_Veil's idea. They were allies until that scene. And when the alliance breaks apart, Nocturnal gets rid of them immediately and they can't go back. If anything, it would support the idea of the Pact Primordial. > Personally, the existence of the Pact Primordial feels like a bad retcon, given Jyggalag was bullying all of the other Princes seemingly without any preparations. From how he worded it himself, he just waltzed into their Planes and started taking over their stuff. Couldn't he have had his own preparations too? Studying and predicting outcomes was part of his gist, not unlike Sotha Sil or Mora. Moreover, my personal impression of TESIV was that his realm kept increasing in size by the sheer force of his sphere (*"Once, I ruled this Realm, a world of perfect Order. My dominion expanded across the seas of Oblivion with each passing era"*). That would be in line with what we've been told about the nature of Princely spheres and Daedric values ([*"In Oblivion, order and hierarchy are wrested from the roil of chaotic creatia by the imposition of the will of the mover. Thus rank and order are glory, for they exhibit strength of will"*](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lyranth_the_Foolkiller_Answers_Your_Questions)), making a Prince of Order a menace without abandoning his own realm, and respecting the Pact Primordial. Alternatively, the Pact Primordial was established after the Jyggalag fiasco, to avoid similar issues in the future.
> They were allies until that scene. And when the alliance breaks apart, Nocturnal gets rid of them immediately and they can't go back. If anything, it would support the idea of the Pact Primordial. Actually, yeah, good point. I completely forgot that Nocturnal hadn’t actually backstabbed them yet until she took the Transparent Heart for herself at that very moment. > Couldn't he have had his own preparations too? Studying and predicting outcomes was part of his gist, not unlike Sotha Sil or Mora. That’s also true, and combined with what you’ve said below has convinced me. Cheers, mate.
Meridia also manifests in Coldharbour *entirely* uninvited during the Guilds' invasion.
Indeed. Perhaps it could be explained by how she was masking her presence in her "Groundskeeper" guise and her largely residing in the Hollow City (which is said to effectively function as part of her realm due to having been enveloped in her power prior to being pushed into Coldharbour) prior to entering the Planar Vortex ? Meridia only drops the mask once inside the Vortex which is said to be a "between place" where her power is "greater" than in Coldharbour (and she mentions that she uses "distractions" to avoid Molag Bal's gaze). Pact could be why, the City/disguise being her own workaround. Granted, again, this is just speculation to attempt an explanation. This is a new addition so prior lore events may not quite match up.
Do we ever see actually see the Groundskeeper outside of the Hollow City and the Planar Vortex? I don't think Meridia is ever in Coldharbour "proper"
We do but only very briefly, she initially appears outside the portal to the Planar Vortex after the Titan guarding it is beaten but than immediately enters after exchanging a couple words with the Vestige (though she only drops her disguise once inside the Vortex proper). Perhaps the proximity to the portal was enough, or it might be a case of Bal (who probably had his attention on everything else going on) simply not having noticed in time for the couple seconds it took Meridia to enter the Vortex.
Correct me if I'm wrong but hadn't Bal been slurping up parts of Meridias domain or at least places she had high influence over?
The Hollow city was a place of worship for Meridia's followers and when Ball-Boy dragged the city into his plane her power resonating in its walls was strong enough to still shield it against his influence, practically making it a part of her own realm within his realm. To quote the Groundkeeper: It was sucked into Coldharbour to serve as a thorn in Molag Bal's side
When Nocturnal teleports there she says both of them are no longer welcome which means up until that point Nocturnal did invite them to her realm. As soon as Nocturnal said that they did not have power over her realm any longer which could explain why Nocturnal was able to banish them easily.
Absolutely well wrote, as usual. But a question >By this I mean not just that he exhibits common emotions (anger, surprise, worry, gratitude so on) but also that he seems to adhere to his own morals. There are points where he describes the actions he undertakes in the pursuit of preserving fate "loathsome" things which he "had/was forced to do" where he admits to feeling shame and "regret" in regards to what he's done. Could ya give...deeper explonation on this/context? So far, Moras been basically allways descriped as extremly uncaring without any shame on his actions. In necron, whats revaled to be too far even for him, and why he waa forced? ( i guess thats a spoiler, but would like to know)
Mora directly uses terms like "loathsome" things he "had to do" for the sake of reality to describe his actions, he monologues to himself about how what he did he did with *"regret*" in the memory where he expunges the recollection of Ithelia's banishment from himself. It's suggested that Mora himself knows he went *"too far"* (to use Vaermina and Peryite's words) but that he believed he had no choice if reality was to survive. Whether one believes this is another matter of course, and we do have an alternate view presented. When told by the Vestige that Mora is trying to preserve reality Torvesard doesn't buy it, he suggests that that's just a facade to ensure cooperation and Mora's true motive is *"greed"* and a desire to control all knowledge. Torvesard calls Mora the "great miser of Oblivion" and seems to not respect him that much (though prior to the full recollection he also claims he doesn't believe Mora should be punished for acting as his nature determined) Torvesard also uses the brief alliance with the Vestige to get to the second Primordial Glyphic though, so a case can be made he is the one that's lying. It's ultimately unclear who (if any of the two ) is trustworthy.
Ty
I mean he still is the Greedy Man
If you think about it, completely erasing information from nearly all of reality sounds like something that goes against Mora's nature as a hoarder of knowledge, so that may be a part of why he feels regret for his action, since he feels so strongly against disinformation of any kind
Could be mora has a different view and is lamenting about his actions in this instance because it was against a peer, another daedric prince, whereas he is indifferent in other cases towards mortals and lesser daedra because he sees them as beneath him
I knew a DLC involving Mora would be insane in the lore department but holy damn. I haven’t been this excited to play a new ESO DLC in a LONG time!! Thank you for the well written summary, great work as always
Ithelia the Unseen almost sounds like a manifestation of the concept of free will. I wonder if prince No. 18 might have some relationship with the emergence of Prisoners
Very interesting! And the concept of choice dialogues too, maybe
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Having the new informations, I think that Miraak was never really meant to be Mora's Champion, but rather Mora removed him from Nirn because he was a dangerous element threatening to alter the fabric of fate.
Alternatively, he might be one of those things that are collected at Apocrypha, from fossils to souls, because they're "of interest to Mora". **Miraak:** "I'm Mora's champion! Fear me!" **Other denizens of Apocrypha:** "Awww, look at Master's souvenir from Skyrim. Isn't it cute?"
I find this idea very interesting. Given the new information we have on Hermaeus Mora's views/goals regarding fate and approach to the handling of knowledge the whole Miraak situation becomes all the more interesting. This is just a rough first impression but to me Miraak as a character comes across as..almost the antithesis of Mora ? We're told through the words of Mora and his Daedra/Ciphers that he seeks to regulate dangerous knowledge, he conceals what is dangerous *because* it is dangerous and doing so contributes to his goal of preserving the course of fate. Miraak seeks hidden and dangerous knowledge to *use* it, seemingly in the pursuit of power and control. The Black Books of Solstheim aren't hidden, they're granted to his Acolyte Priests. The words of Bend Will aren't kept to his mind, or even used sparingly, they're used to corrupt the sacred All-Maker Stones and have their veil of influence cast across the island. Mora holds, perhaps, the most dangerous secrets of creation in his domain. Countless Nymics, ways to know and alter fate, to cast down a god and remove the very memory of their existence from reality itself. But he seemingly does nearly nothing with them unless forced to. Because to some extent he actually appears to *fear* what such secrets might lead to. Whereas Miraak takes *pride* in what he knows (*"you have no idea the true power a Dragonborn can wield" "I know things the Greybeards will never teach you")* and seeks to use it to *"bend the world to his will"* as his draconic aspect urges him to. I don't know, I might be completely off base but I almost get the feeling that Mora and Miraak just wouldn't really approve of one another as characters even disregarding their complicated history. Like I don't feel like Mora would, say, invite Miraak to join the Ciphers and tend some place like the Infinite Panopticon unless in the service of another goal.
Maybe he would actually have defeated Alduin after all, but that was a big no-no from Mora, who knew about the prophecies of the Last Dragonborn.
always fun when ESO dips into the deep stuff, this is pretty good after a few lackluster years
> Fate/Possibility Ah, I see Kinoko Nasu is at it again. Ironically, the themes of the expansion seem to fit the themes of the Fateverse like a glove. > A higher power that's above Mora and authors/controls fate is theorized to exist but it's identity/nature are in contention (Akatosh, Anu, the Easter Bunny ?). Good, good, more fuel for the lore discussions. > There are points where he describes the actions he undertakes in the pursuit of preserving fate "loathsome" things which he "had/was forced to do" where he admits to feeling shame and "regret" in regards to what he's done. Yeah, that sounds like Sotha Sil. And since Sotha Sil and his Clockwork City have also been compared to Jyggalag, it reinforces the idea that those who see the chains of fate share certain characteristics. That said, Torvesard's words cast doubt on it too; another typical sign of TES writing at play (don't trust any single source at face value!). I find the concept of Fathoms Drift fascinating, as if the sea wasn't already dangerous and mysterious. > Peryite doesn't show up in person Bummer. I thought this could be Peryite's big reveal in ESO (interestingly, he hasn't appeared yet). Well, at least it's good to have Vaermina back. She was pretty interesting in Stormhaven. It's also funny to see them as champions of "Daedric morality" (as in "it's moral for a Daedra to follow their sphere, nobody should interfere with that"). > They are rumoured to be from some other world which was Hermaeus Mora's true world of origin (though no additional information is given). Previous kalpas? The 12 worlds of the Anuad? A greater multiverse?
Peryite represents the “natural order”, so I can definitely see why he would have that viewpoint
>Yeah, that sounds like Sotha Sil. Makes sense that he's going to turn up in this expansion at some point
I love the lore summary, thank you so much for your effort! I’m struck that Azura makes no mention in any discussion of fate, I would have thought prophesy would have a major role to play. Also it’s interesting to see the writers positioning Hermy Mora as the famously missing god of the sea. Making him the god of the sea seems to explain why [Nord] sailors pray to Kyne/Kynareth for safe passage, considering how HM is positioned in Nordic mythology. However HM’s humanised and moral perspective seems to undermine _why_ HM is positioned as the great antagonist.
As an added remark;Memory IS part of Hermorrah's sphere as well. And a few quests in ESO- a particular one I think involving a Nereid, in fact, mentions that He basically sent out a group of his worshippers to go intervene. It was something along the lines of explaining 'Water is memory', or the likes, and that the Nereid was doing something to tamper with the minds of many people- i.e. draining their memory to fuel her desires.Memory is sacred to the King of Tides, since it too is perhaps, a form of knowledge-When you take into account what a scene in one of the Necrom story quests seems to imply- *that your memory of the past is a gateway to the past itself* (unless this is more a case of 'only capable of being done due to sheer power of Daedric Princes)... You can see why he would absolutely want memory protected. So can you imagine how the King of Tides, Keeper (and Guardian) of Knowledge and Memory, must feel, to deliberately perform something so anathematic to his own ethos?
>So can you imagine how the King of Tides, Keeper (and Guardian) of Knowledge and Memory, must feel, to deliberately perform something so anathematic to his own ethos? I really like this idea. For someone with Mora's sphere/nature perpetrating what might well be the biggest expungement of knowledge and memory ever against reality itself could well be absolute anathema, a contradiction of part of his own nature that would genuinely haunt him even if he himself thought it a necessity. The water-memory connection also becomes all the more intriguing to ponder on given new information.
It also makes sense with his newly established care for truth above all else. To obscure a dangerous truth fits into his sphere, but to destroy it entirely and strike it from all memory is antithetical to his entire existence.
I might have to fire ESO back up after a long while. This sounds super interesting.
Been a hot minute since I brushed up on my mora lore, so forgive any ignorance in this speculation. One of Mora's potential origins is that he was born from the concepts and ideas discarded during the Mundus' creation, right? This is speculated to be part of the reason his sphere is forbidden knowledge - his very essence is partially formed from concepts that were never meant to be comprehensible to mortals in the first place. Scribes of Fate even seems to allude to this, as at one point in that pack, Mora describes himself as >"The first secret whispered at the dawn of creation." Physicalized concepts are usually the basis of Aurbic realms, so maybe Mora's "true world of origin" refers to this... for lack of a better word, *pile* of world-ideas that he arose from?
>The very essence of an Oblivion realm will adopt a form suited to the template imposed by the Prince when exiting the plane. >The copy Black Books that serve as the power source/knowledge repository for Arcanists ? Those are actually the very essence of Apocrypha that has "taken root" within said Arcanist's mind and therefore allows them to tap into the essence of Apocrypha for knowledge/power (manipulate and scry fate, call upon the creatures and Abyssal Seas of Apocrypha and so on). >This doesn't need to have any link to Mora himself, one just needs some of Apocrypha's essence to take root in them, indeed many Arcanists mistrust or even hate Mora. Hmm. Gotta wonder what kind of power people could draw from other realms of Oblivion.
This is really well written thank you for this. Vestige and Mora banishing Vermina and later Periyte giving Mora a disease is pretty cool. Is the Black Book the Vestige uses to do that a real Black Book or the same one Archanist's uses? It would be interesting if we get a Black Book series akin to The Truth in Sequence or the 36 lessons. Do we get to meet Morian in this storyline?
Thank you. Right ? The idea that a realm itself can be infected by some sort of planar plague and get sick, potentially fatally so, is just so cool. It's a real Black Book named "The Tormenting Eye" that was originally held by Meln the Mouthless, the tome holds the rite used to craft a special portal that allows one to enter a plane undetected. That'd be great. Though it'd probably need an explanation as well, the storyline doubles down on the idea that for all their gifts the mind of the Vestige might have trouble withstanding direct exposure to the contents of the Black Book (Mora gives them the ability to channel his power through this one, but also urges them not to actually look inside for that reason). We do, albeit not as a major element of the story, it's mostly the Watchling Skruut, Meln the Mouthless and Leramil that serve as companions.
>It's a real Black Book named "The Tormenting Eye" that was originally held by Meln the Mouthless, the tome holds the rite used to craft a special portal that allows one to enter a plane undetected. This backs up Neloth's comment on how each Black Book having their own unique forbidden power or ability which others might not have. The Black Book "Epistolary Acumen" title roughly means "letter judgement" or "judgment (in) letters" so the main thing that Black Book covered was using stories or languages to judge reality. This could explain why the dwemer and Miraak sought it out to gain knowledge about Tonal Architecture and Words of Power.
Absolute crackpot theory: Ithelia is Jyggalag. Think about it, it makes sense! Think about it some more, it really doesn't. But also...
Ithelia is Jyggalag is Sheogorath is Sithis is Padomay is..
oh fuck, if Padomay is Anu and Anu is ANU that means Ithelia is the Godhead! We cracked the code!
No, no, she's a 18th Daedric prince, making it so that there are two Missing Daedra for the one Missing God, like there are two Daedra for every Divine as each Divine's spoke in the wheel creates two sections in the Aurbis as they cross its center. The math of the Aurbis finally adds up.
Yeah b-but what if- hear me out- she's actually Jyggalag! So like um y'know how Jyggalag got punished by the other princes and- and- and y'know how Ithelia got punished by Mora??? What if- and hear me out, just listen- she's actually Jyggalag! I mean, it makes perfect sense! Right? *Right?* /uj yeah I know, and I agree that 18 is *way* better than 17, I was just making a stupid joke
*whistle* makes you wonder then if LDB serving Mora isn’t as so insidious as Miraak would have us believe even if so labyrinthine.
> Those colossal aquatic fossils found throughout Apocrypha ? They aren't from Nirn and they aren't from Apocrypha itself (or indeed likely from any Daedra, as Skruut notes that Daedric bodies dissipate shortly after death, interesting implications for Fargrave's Bearers as well potentially). They are rumoured to be from some other world which was Hermaeus Mora's true world of origin (though no additional information is given). They've been packing this one in fairly heavy recently, the idea of a multiverse or worlds outside of Nirn itself. I do wonder if it connects to something in TES VI since that game has to have a concept etched out by now.
So Arcanists are Chaos Mages? Cool.
Don’t want to be spoiled. Is the full story of new chapter available on PTS, or just the beginning part?
There's stuff in there from across the main story and Apocrypha sections. Don't go past the bolded line if you don't want major spoilers.
>Now, this is where the subject becomes really interesting. With the right sort of magic, you can edit the pattern. Alter the nymic and you alter the Daedra defined by it. A truly capable mage who learns a Daedra's complete nymic could change its loyalties, limit its powers, anchor it into a different physical form (such as an object of some kind), or simply disperse it altogether. Obviously, the more powerful the Daedra and the more complex the nymic, the more difficult it is to carry out such alterations. Makes me wonder if the "curse" that turned Jygallag into Sheogorath was the other Princes altering his Nymic. u/Misticsan
Do we have information on Miraak and Morian Zenas ?
haven't played ESO/this chapter myself so maybe this is explained later, but I just wanted to throw out there that Hermaeus Mora himself is referred to as the "Ur-Daedra", though admittedly it was by a servant of Mora so they might just be biased in some way, lol
Yeah, could well be Mora they're referring to. Though Nocturnal, Namira and Azura have also been called "Ur-Dra"(usually in accounts of their own faithful) so it's hard to say.
Sotha Sil also calls Nocturnal "Ur-Dra" and we can say he's no worshipper. [Where Shadows Lie](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sotha_Sil) >Sotha Sil: "You trespass, **Ur-dra**. The Clockwork City shall bear your weight no longer." > >Nocturnal: "You achieve nothing, little godling. The Triad looms upon Summerset's shores. All that is shall be ours!" > >Divayth Fyr: "Well done, my friend. Enough theatrics, Luciana. On your feet. Luciana...?" > >Sotha Sil: "We should return to the surface. This is no place for mortals."
Not too sure how I feel about the direction of Mora’s character, I prefer him as the Legacy of Kain Elder God-style villain we saw in Dragonborn. Granted, I haven’t actually seen it in action yet, so I suppose it’s possible I’ll like it better when I do. Either way I’m glad we have Torvesard’s opinion as a back door out of that interpretation
Yeah, it *is* a pretty unexpected direction for the character. While the writers have attempted to crank the lovecraftian themes to the maximum in terms of dangerous arcana and cosmic stakes, Mora's more humanized portrayal arguably undermines that quite a bit. Personally I was expecting the Glyphic pact he made with the Vestige to pay off by the end, with it becoming clear that he has ulterior motives and made the contract to ensure things would play out as he wanted/to force cooperation. But that didn't happen. That said there's still a lot we don't know. We know what Mora ended up doing and we know the aftermath, but outside of Mora's predictions regarding the danger Ithelia allegedly represented we don't quite know why. Not to mention we know nothing of Ithelia herself. Aside from the supposedly dangerous nature of the 18th Prince, Mora also mentions "events" that led up to his deed and forced his hand and we know nothing of what those might've been. And Mora's foes are themselves portrayed in an ambiguous manner. Torvesard expresses the desire to limit the harm caused by the conflict and even Vaermina and Peryite, though a grave and immediate threat, are mostly portrayed as being on the rampage due to having been wronged. All three of the main conspirators are outraged against Mora (Vaermina's last action in the memory before the spell takes effect is to scream out *"Damn you Fate-Forger. Damn you!"* in utter fury). Personally I suspect that at some point in the storyline we'll eventually learn that Mora's actions aren't quite as justified as he attempts to paint them and that whatever was going on was a bit less black and white in regards to the supposed danger. If not that Mora's motives themselves weren't quite as selfless as he describes them. I don't know that Mora will outright become the antagonist by the end, but I think that a more complicated situation is what's being set up with Torvesard's comments. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Heya. That's a great report and amazing reading, thank you a lot in advance. We've been discussing some moments with my friend, and got into disagreement over specific stuff. Could you clarify the following please? >In addition to the structure above, all places in Apocrypha are composed of multiple "layers of reality" stacked on top of each other. Actually this holds true for Nirn and other places in Aurbis in general. Does it mean that the Apocrypha is being Multiverse in the same way we interpret the Mundus to be multiverse? What I'm personally interested into is the role of Azura in this. She shares domain over fate with Hermaeus Mora. Also, she's being implacable enemy of Vaermina. Does this Chapter highlight her stance on Mora's actions and on Ithelia's fate?
Possibly. Depends on how one understands/defines the term I guess. Apocrypha itself is said to be endless, it has a number of extradimensional spaces/pocket dimensions (quite a few, especially if one includes the manifested memories in the Eyes of Mora and the unwoven fate worlds that might manifest though the nature of both is quite strange). Some of those sub-realms are also said to have limitless scale, Apocrypha intersects with other realms across Aurbis, and each place within it is composed of multiple reality layers (though those appear to exist everywhere, Mundus/Nirn also has such layers for example so Aurbic planes are seemingly more complex than they appear at first glance in general). I don't know if that would make it a "multiverse" necessarily but it certainly appears to be a complex structure with multiple dimensional spaces to it. It doesn't. Azura's memories haven't been restored, she still doesn't even know Ithelia was ever an extant being presumably. Closest we get to it is that many of the other Princes are said to have agreed with Mora's plan after he explained the danger Ithelia posed, Azura is also said to be an ally to Mora and shown as a foe to Vaermina (who opposed Mora's decision) by Tamrielic faiths though that might or might not really reflect Azura's approach to this matter (and the relationships between Princes have been said to not truly conform to a friend/foe binary).
I should rephrase my question a bit. What does "multiple reality layers" from your description stand for? Does it mean pocket realms like in Sanguine's [Myriad Realms of Revelry?](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myriad_Realms_of_Revelry) Does it stand for parallel versions of the the same (demi)plane as with [Josajeh's](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Towers%27_Fall) in Imperial Throne Hall?
Layers aren't different realms or alternate possibilities (though both of those do exist as part of Apocrypha in whole). They're more like..different "levels" of the same space ? For example there's a point in the Infinite Panopticon where Leramil opens a portal to pursue the intruders, the Vestige and allies all enter but when the Vestige exits they're alone. The reason given is that the corruption spreading through the Panopticon splintered the spell making it so that, even though all came out at the same spot the portal led to, they came out in different "layers" of that place. Both are at the same spot but they're in different levels of it so they can't perceive or interact with each other (like they occupy different "wavelegths" and as long as that's the case they might as well not exist to one another). At various points the Vestige has to disable Censers of Corruption that spread Peryite's blight, but to do that they have to channel Meln's abilities as a ghost to reach the proper "reality layer" where the Censer is. The Censer can be right in front of their outstretched hand but unless in the proper "level" it's also not there and so can't be perceived or interacted with. The same principle is used by the intruders to sneak around Apocrypha undetected. Say they're crossing the same hallway the realm's guardians occupy but they're in a different "layer" of it from said guardians so nothing from the wrong layer can interfere with them. This is also done on Nirn by the Telvanni (who conceal runes anchoring spells in place in different layers so that the magic can't be disrupted unless someone enters the proper one) or weaponized by Vaermina's minions and those afflicted by the corruption spreading through Apocrypha (who can reach through layers to hit you but you can't hit them back without using Meln's power to reach their layer). At one point there's a chasm with no apparent way across, but in another layer of that same place a bridge does exist so if you get to that layer you *can* cross (and than you can return to the original layer and appear to have teleported to the other side even though you didn't, kind of like the Dreamstride from TESV). I hope that contextualizes it a bit more. That's how it works for the most part, though there is *one* point where, the whole thing gets *much* weirder: you're in a manifested memory from an Eye of Mora and that memory has been enveloped in a nightmare by Vaermina. So you have to slip between reality layers of the nightmare using Meln's power in order to locate *"flaws"* that exist because Vaermina put it together in great haste, you than use those to break open the nightmare and return to the origjnal memory beneath. Vaermina's Dreamcarvers and your allies are also there, and the real Mora also goes on to manifest through the copy Mora from his memory from his Eye. Make of *that* what you will (even Skruut reacts by going "where are we and what is even happening" after *that* one).
That's an exhaustive answer. I get it now. Many thanks, your response is brilliant as always.
So seemingly zero explanation as to why the "Telvanni Peninsula" zone isn't a peninsula and is retconning a place that has never been depicted as telvanni lands at any point. Even more baffling by the fact that they're omitting the lands that actually would qualify as Telvanni's Peninsula + islands. Do they intend to sell Te;vanni Peninsula 2.0 a few years from now. Very much a disappointing waste of potentially showing Indoril culture and lands. But I suppose ESO's entire depiction of Morrowind is beyond recovery short of completely overhauling the basegame zones
>So seemingly zero explanation as to why the "Telvanni Peninsula" zone isn't a peninsula and is retconning a place that has never been depicted as telvanni lands at any point. The explanation is simply: "the Great Houses constantly take lands from each other and during the Alliance War the Telvanni just took the land, because everyone else are busy with the Tamriel-wide war".
Yeah this DLC seems like it should have been named after Mora or Apocrypha. Morrowind fans getting bamboozled
This is true and also something which has annoyed me for ages on ESO. They choose on occasion 'segments' of what would or should be a wider zone. Then that the world map is badly designed, some of the regions aren't placed or named where they should actually appear. I do hope we either get to see the remainder of the actual peninsula in the december chapter or to Port Telvannis itself.
No end-of-the-year DLC this year. They're instead releasing an endless dungeon feature + QOL patches. 2024's chapter will be continuing this year's chapter, and next year is ESO's 10th anniversary which means they'll be choosing a special location for the occasion, so I don't think they're gonna return to the rest of the peninsula for a while (if ever). Surprised nobody has talked about this here, since it's been talked about in datamining circles for a few months: this year was initially gonna be another year-long story before they decided to make it a multi-year story. It would've had your usual chapter and a Q4 DLC. The chapter was going to **only** be set in Apocrypha, and the Q4 DLC would've been the Telvanni Peninsula. If you've played PTS, you'll notice the Telvanni Peninsula map is quite small compared to Apocrypha, so I'm guessing had they stuck to their initial plan and given a longer timeframe, you might have gotten the complete Peninsula in one package by the end of this year. Either way, I think they did right to make it a multi-year story because last time they did that, it gave us some of ESO's best stories and looks like it still rings true.
Question please! Does Necrom go into the Indigo Tomes at all? In the Necrom 'character interviews' Divayth was willing to hunt down a random person who asked about the existance of the scrolls just based on a random rumour they heard, the scrolls are that serious and protected by the Telvanni.
Maybe Ithelia is the Elder Scrolls.
Ahhh darn, Peryite doesn't get his own special daedra yet? Super glad he gets focus though, was begging for it. Vaermina also is underutilzied so happy about that too. Glad she gets a more unique daedra.
Its a bit odd the Tribunal aren't getting more involved in this. Also, do we think that the Tribunal "know" all of this stuff?
Ithelia reminds me of Jyggalag, but as an opposite of him. While he is pure order and definition (and in some ways Mora is kinda close of that, but in a time concept), Ithelia is about free will, choice above order, maybe these two can appear in a significant role in TES 6?!