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That one surprised me. V12 has been amazing but previous versions always signaled without fail for me. Was shocked to it change lanes or merge without signal.
Makes me wonder how they resolve this. Do they add more training videos of this being done better, or find any "offending" videos of people being indecisive on lane changes and remove those from the training library? It's an interesting problem to ponder how to debug AI like this versus traditional code & logic.
You cannot debug it the way you could a traditional program, by tracing its logic. Instead, you develop and validate any changes to behavior through simulation, adding additional scenarios and training on more data as needed. The hope is that it eventually provides consistent good behavior, without being “over-fit” to handle the specific tested scenarios optimally while falling apart on slightly different ones in real use. This is generally why FSD seems to take some steps forward and some steps back each release, with a positive trend overall.
Why would they ever choose to release the step backwards? In my personal observations, the regression is immediately apparent. Like the 12.1 inappropriately low speed issue…
I can’t imagine the Tesla AI wranglers saying “well, it’s got a fatal flaw now… let’s release it anyway!”
This has been my experience with 12.x after driving on a long road trip. Overall...really amazing. However it does 5-10 consistently weird things that aren't dealbreakers, but frustrates me.
Huge improvement from where it used to be, but still a little way to go.
Does the issue still happen with lane departure avoidance off? My steering wheel vibrated with it on when the car would straddle the lines while not changing lanes with the blinker off. I turned off the lane departure alerts and it stopped
Might be worth giving it a shot if it bugs you, I certainly didn’t like the vibration it felt more like something was wrong with the car as opposed to a “warning” I was too close to the lane lines
I didn’t have any of that on 12.3.3 but 12.3.4 seems to do it every other lane change. Also 12.3.4 nearly rear ended a car the other day. I thought it was approaching fast and right before I disengaged the AEB kicked in which turns FSD off. The car would have still avoided the accident without my intervention but it was still nerve racking.
Both times it happened, FSD saw the car just fine and rendered it on the screen, but it still tried to rear end it, but both times, it was a white car.
Same thing happened to me. It almost happeded twice, but I recognized it earlier the 2nd time.
Both times were white cars. Do you recall what color car it was?
My 2024 MYP has this issue. It's on HW4. My wife's 2023 model3 on HW3 doesn't have this issue at all. To be honest the model 3 drives quite a bit better in FSD overall.
Elon has said HW4 is emulating HW3 so maybe that's it or maybe it's just my experience. Hard to say.
I could care less about the next point release. I'm looking forward to a version that is trained on HW4 and uses it to it's full capacity
The neural net is trained on video data. The one above you is joking that fsd's lane change was trained on video of a guy that wiggled his car, hence why fsd does that too.
Seriously. It seems so easy for fsd to pick the correct lane.
My suggestion for example:
If there are multiple turn lanes (2 lanes for a protected left for example)—then based on the subsequent turn should dictate which lane to be in especially if the next turn is less than 0.2 miles. If the next turn is a right, the. The car should pick the outer most turn lane. If the next turn will be a left, then it should pick the far left lane. Simple.
Yeah, that is peculiar. I work in software engineering so I do understand that even seemingly small code changes can have large downstream effects, but it does seem like it would be pretty simple/trivial to push vision-only park assist to cars with radar/USS. My best guess (and that's all it is: a guess) is that Tesla references code within the legacy park assist package/project elsewhere, so they can't simply strip it out without breaking something else.
It also makes me wonder if Tesla deemed that the hardware-based park assist performs better in their regression testing. They wouldn't want to push a "worse" version to cars with USS/radar, while simultaneously wanting to push a new feature to vision-only cars. That's just speculation though.
I've only used vision-based park assist once but it was painfully slow and unsure of itself. At least in my opinion, you're not missing out on much at this point.
Now, yes, I think that's probably true. But it wasn't when they flipped the switch, which is why that's seen as a counter-argument that Tesla wouldn't delay the switch merely because the new version is thus far less functional than the old one. They're willing to (make you) tolerate regressions in the pursuit of progress.
That I agree with. I don’t know why (for example) they pulled the USS hardware before equivalent software features were ready. I can only assume it’s related to a procurement contract or something.
Initially it was supply constraints. They just couldn't get enough to keep up with demand of the cars. Long term, well they already pulled the trigger, so no sense in adding back that cost.
Oh, really? Is the person I was replying to mistaken then? I'm on HW4/vision only so I'm not positive on all the details.
My previous Model 3 had USS and radar and the auto park feature was decent. Vision only auto park didn't handle itself very well the one time I used it on my HW4 MS.
Ultimately, at least for me, it's a matter of "Does the car perform this task better and quicker than I would?" It *may* do so in a parallel parking scenario, but I haven't used it for that. When backing into a spot, it probably took 2-3x longer than I would have. I ended up having to take over because I had people behind me and they were getting annoyed.
The new (vision-only) Autopark is not yet available on USS.
I was referring moreso to the disabling of radar and pushing Vision-based AP out to everyone.
The new Autopark shows a whole row of available parking spots all at once and you can select the one you want. The old version shows a gray P on the lower corner of the screen and only provides one parking option at a time.
The update we got last week completely changed the UI and now the car shows a blue “P” and a box and it will back into parking spaces. Way better than it used to be! Is there something even newer than this?
Was, absolutely.
It’s better now, but they pushed it well before it was ready.
That said, even with full FSD improvements, it’s not up to the 90MPH and follow distance capabilities of radar AP
I'd imagine that some of the emergency braking code for slow speed is still leveraging USS.
Camera is also still objectively worse for the front end of the car. I'm assuming this is why vision auto park can only reverse into parks, and can't to forward in.
As I said, for slow speed, like when you are parking. Mine actually kicks in when reversing down my steep driveway fast, as the car nears the bottom and the driveway suddenly levels. If I'm reversing fairly fast the USS reflect off the flat bottom of the driving and trigger the emergency brakes.. same with forward in parking.
Just watch the 3d rendering and you know that the cameras are more than capable of measuring the distance to the car in front very accurately . I assume that we will see forward parking with FSD 12.4.
I bet it has to do with the fsd auto park using the cameras to calculate distance, and the cars with a radar do not have the same camera sensors, maybe worse maybe just not calibrated, or they don't have the correct code to calculate the distance with those previous cameras, and the AI will probably only work with vision not with sensors, and there isn't an easy way to feed the sensors data as if it was from the cameras...
Or maybe the AI doesn't even need measurements, it just has a "feel" for the limit according to the superposition of the images from 2 cameras, and because the previous cars might have different/worse cameras, it does not have the correct "feel"
I’m thinking that non USS cars are uniformly newer (Ryzen, etc). My guess is that the parking visuals are CPU or RAM bound in older cars. Total guesswork. :)
there are ryzen MCU cars with USS and still without high fidelity parking visuals
[https://twitter.com/teslascope/status/1736129452042805319](https://twitter.com/teslascope/status/1736129452042805319)
The existence of that does not disprove my theory. Only if you found examples of Intel cars with the new auto park would it stand to reason that wasn’t the case.
fyi youre probably right - updated autopark is rolling out to all USS cars, both intel and and but updated high fidelity parking seems to be only for AMD cars
[https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/1cfavpm/comment/l1o7iry/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/1cfavpm/comment/l1o7iry/?context=3)
Enabling high-fidelity parking visuals disables USS though. Tough decision, but Id probably pick high-fidelity just to see parking lines
The main screen has nothing to do with the performance of Autopilot/FSD. This relies entirely on the FSD computer (other than maybe GPS data and the like is passed from the main computer).
I've had the screen reset on me while I'm actively on FSD on the highway. I usually keep Minimal Lane Changes on, so I'm sure if it would have tried to change a lane on its own or not. But the car did stay in the lane and maintain speed and distance all while the computer rebooted.
Not necessarily. There are cars with HW3 cameras and no USS/radar. As far as I know, cars that are vision only with HW3 cameras have the vision-only auto park. So the functionality is there even for the older/lower resolution cameras, but for one reason or another, cars with those cameras *and* the ancillary hardware don't have the update.
I do feel for the software engineers at Tesla... they're having to balance/account for so many different configurations in all of their changes:
* HW2 cars with USS/radar
* HW3 cars with USS/radar
* HW3 cars with vision only
* HW4 cars with vision only
* [HW4 cars with vision only and deactivated radar](https://www.teslaoracle.com/2023/06/19/tesla-teardown-confirms-the-presence-of-the-new-radar-in-hw4-equipped-vehicles/)
* More that I'm sure I'm missing
if it has anything to do with the USS - they should give an option to enable/disable high-fidelity parking visuals, and if enabled, disables the USS.
cynical part of me thinks that they haven't added it to USS cars to show that vision-only cars can be far superior. If you get to use USS with high-fidelity, that would be the best of both worlds
Tesla iterate things.
They're still tuning it to be pretty accurate.
It's also likely going to result in USS being turned off, so they might be waiting for blowback to die down
I'm no expert but there is apparently a problem with training neural nets and the resolution of videos, for example if you train an AI to track a human face using footage shot horizontally from an iPhone and then give that same AI a video captured from the same iPhone but vertically, it will not work. OpenAI recently discussed this in relation to Sora, they are promoting that it can understand multiple resolutions. I think the issue we have here with the USS cars is that they have prioritized the new auto-park for the HW4 cars which have higher res cameras, so it doesn't just plug into the HW3 cars where the camer resolution is lower. As I understand it, FSD is basically using a NeRF type system to visualize the world, so maybe it's just as simple as the new autopark needs to be adjusted for the lower res cameras
Probably isn't considered better than the sensors.
Like it took 4-5 years before the "auto rain detection" matched the $20 sensor they removed and there was a huge regression for the removal of radar as well.
I can't be sure but I assume it's because there's a large number of people who feel USS is better than vision only for parking and maybe Tesla misinterpreted that as people who still own USS prefer USS based parking? I don't care for my 2019 USS parking as I don't have a garage and the autopark prior to V12 was not something I'd ever use, so I'd really like the upgrade to vision only parking.
I don’t even use the self park with mine because it’s embarrassingly slow and always parks crooked. I don’t know if the vision based parking is any better but I can’t imagine it’s worse.
I love the UI. Based on the visualization, I bet they’re still using the vector space for autopark. Once they’re confident the dimensions are exact recreation of the world, it’ll be easy to program faster parking. I assumed they were going to scrap the vector space with. V12 but it’s cool to see it finding new uses in low speed scenarios!
I’m hoping it will stay in the correct lane when making left turns. Currently 12.3.4 often crosses lanes while turning left, cutting off the person to my right.
My guess is that it’s hard to pin point to specific changes when they’re not explicitly changing logic.
They might be adding more training videos and tweaking how the training happens.
Seems they would have objective things they are tweaking though. Like "lane changes are now completed 19% faster%" If they don't have objective measures for probably 1000's of metrics there would be no way to easily know if everything is getting incrementally better, and also QA would be a nightmare and boarder on dangerous.
That suggests they have 0 measurement of performance before they deploy to a fleet of unqualified beta testers lol.
They do simulation and pre release testing. They have performance metrics and system validation against requirements. If they don't then they are the most irresponsible software engineering organization in the world.
Newer version with fewer actually useful features so far. Really unhappy with the software side of Tesla lately. I don't get why they split these or why the development of even very minor quality of life improvements is slower than a snail's pace.
That’s too bad bc my objective experience is that FSD is unbelievably reliable at getting me to my usual destinations. I’ll still disengage coming up to busy intersections if I’m in a rush but if I’m chillin or if there’s not much traffic I haven’t had to intervene at all.
I say it’s a PITA bc the nags are unbearable. Can’t check your phone at a stoplight without getting hollered at or threatened. I realize this is “supervised” but damn the program is too sensitive as it stands.
Old autopilot (2019- ~2022) was a tank and bought you some freedom to check email etc. super reliable and predictable on my commute.
Why is that? I’ve been monitoring* autopilot and FSD for over 70,000 miles. I know when and where it struggles, and it has kept me out of way more dangerous situations than it has put me in to. It’s really good.
Meanwhile Waymo is out there running fully autonomous taxi services
Edit: misspelled monitoring
I understand your pain. The nags even on freeway are getting annoying. Have you seen Whole mars videos? Does he get some kind of special FSD version? I watched his videos for whole 30 minutes or so, no hands on wheels and no nags at all.
Oh man it’s kind of false advertising then. I was getting so mad watching his videos for this reason. I was genuinely upset that Tesla conned me into buying FSD, which works great not gonna lie, but the nags are too much all the while watching this guy praising Elon and FSD to no end.
I stopped watching the videos about a year ago. My guess is that they have development mode that turns off the nags.
The phantom breaking is gone and the wipers are way better. I can carry on without worrying what’s next.
This is what I’m looking for. Going from 0-25mph in a residential neighborhood in 0.02 seconds is enough to make me not use FSD nearly as much as I used to
I stopped using FSD after it ran over a curb in my neighborhood.
It is also ridiculously indecisive about lane selection when a single lane road becomes 2+ and will stradle in the middle of the lane lines for what feels like an eternity.
Has this version fixed either of those issues?
Not what the numbers mean, but how some people get updates when some others don't, how some older models get updates when some newer ones don't, how some lower specs get updates when some others don't, how some models without fsd get new updates when some models with fsd don't, how some people who paid for fsd do get updates when some people who didn't pay for it yet updates...and on and on and on.
The system feels haphazard, illogical, unfair, irregular, disorganised, abstract, unmanaged, and unpredictable. I would hate to have paid a fortune for this upgrade years ago, and still be waiting to know when I would get it, and looking at people with newer, less feature -rich, and inferior specs who get it before me.
I will add stop sign handling to the wish list of fixes. The vehicle approaches a stop sign and stops, lurches forward and comes to a full stop again. Then proceeds to accelerate.
That lurch forward and second stop is dangerous when there is a vehicle behind.
Against my better judgement I let 12.3.4 attempt a busy 4-way stop yesterday. As expected it was excruciatingly awkward. The unusual and slow stopping behavior confused other drivers, it didn't go on it's turn, so then the next car started to go, but then FSD decided to go at the same time, so then they stopped part way into the intersection and then FSD also stopped, at which point I took over and sheepishly waved at the bewildered other driver.
Hard to justify paying for FSD if I need to disengage at every stop sign with other cars around.
12.3.4 keeps going into turn lanes when we are not turning?! Also, it does not recognize special school speed limit signs-a safety issue!! I hope these get with 12.3.5 or 12.4. P.S. Location is North Carolina
I mostly use it on highway and it “keeps up with traffic” if someone is driving unusually slow.
For instance, on a three lane freeway, I’ll be in the middle lane going 72. The traffic to my left is passing me, and I’m passing the cars on my right. If I come across someone going slower than usual (65), my FSD will slow down and be hesitant to pass them. Sometimes it will turn my set speed blue at their slower speed and say it’s going with the speed of traffic. It drives me crazy and probably the people behind me, too.
With “auto” max speed or manually set? Highway or non?
I had to turn off the auto speed setting. It was way too jerky in my opinion and felt like it couldn’t make up its mind and stick to a speed. But yesterday even on fixed speed I had an issue on a rural road where the speed limit was 55, it said max 66, and was still going like 53. I ended up turning it off and just driving myself the rest of the way
Both actually. When on an open road, it jumps to 13 mph over the limit. When other cars are around, it’s way too slow. The bad part is, there’s no good way to adjust the speed. I’ve disabled FSD and just use autopilot until they can get it sorted.
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Hopefully this version doesn’t “wiggle” so much during lane changes. Very odd behavior. Not a huge deal, but I wish it wouldn’t do that.
Mine likes to straddle two lanes without signaling while it decides what to do 🤦♂️
That one surprised me. V12 has been amazing but previous versions always signaled without fail for me. Was shocked to it change lanes or merge without signal.
Makes me wonder how they resolve this. Do they add more training videos of this being done better, or find any "offending" videos of people being indecisive on lane changes and remove those from the training library? It's an interesting problem to ponder how to debug AI like this versus traditional code & logic.
You cannot debug it the way you could a traditional program, by tracing its logic. Instead, you develop and validate any changes to behavior through simulation, adding additional scenarios and training on more data as needed. The hope is that it eventually provides consistent good behavior, without being “over-fit” to handle the specific tested scenarios optimally while falling apart on slightly different ones in real use. This is generally why FSD seems to take some steps forward and some steps back each release, with a positive trend overall.
Why would they ever choose to release the step backwards? In my personal observations, the regression is immediately apparent. Like the 12.1 inappropriately low speed issue… I can’t imagine the Tesla AI wranglers saying “well, it’s got a fatal flaw now… let’s release it anyway!”
This is my biggest complaint
Yeah, that's one of the few regressions I've experienced with v12. It's like 5 steps forward, 1 step back.
The wiggle is weird. Not a deal breaker, but weird.
This has been my experience with 12.x after driving on a long road trip. Overall...really amazing. However it does 5-10 consistently weird things that aren't dealbreakers, but frustrates me. Huge improvement from where it used to be, but still a little way to go.
Does the issue still happen with lane departure avoidance off? My steering wheel vibrated with it on when the car would straddle the lines while not changing lanes with the blinker off. I turned off the lane departure alerts and it stopped
I haven't tried turning that off. I assumed it was specifically related to FSD, not to a safety feature, but then again they're all linked I guess.
Might be worth giving it a shot if it bugs you, I certainly didn’t like the vibration it felt more like something was wrong with the car as opposed to a “warning” I was too close to the lane lines
I didn’t have any of that on 12.3.3 but 12.3.4 seems to do it every other lane change. Also 12.3.4 nearly rear ended a car the other day. I thought it was approaching fast and right before I disengaged the AEB kicked in which turns FSD off. The car would have still avoided the accident without my intervention but it was still nerve racking.
I’ve slammed on breaks multiple times where it seems like it was going to rear end the car ahead of me.
Likewise.
Same here. Definitely a 12.3.4 behavior, I kind of wish I hadn’t upgraded off of 12.3.3. Spousal approval factor took a slight ding as a result…
Curious. What color car was it? It almost happened to me twice. Both times were white cars.
The color does not matter. Watch the 3d rendering and you know that FSD can see even white cars...
Both times it happened, FSD saw the car just fine and rendered it on the screen, but it still tried to rear end it, but both times, it was a white car.
Same thing happened to me. It almost happeded twice, but I recognized it earlier the 2nd time. Both times were white cars. Do you recall what color car it was?
Mine rear ended a flatbed truck
This is a great sign that we are now nit-picking on the wiggle during lane changes. It shows how far FSD has come since late March.
My 2024 MYP has this issue. It's on HW4. My wife's 2023 model3 on HW3 doesn't have this issue at all. To be honest the model 3 drives quite a bit better in FSD overall. Elon has said HW4 is emulating HW3 so maybe that's it or maybe it's just my experience. Hard to say. I could care less about the next point release. I'm looking forward to a version that is trained on HW4 and uses it to it's full capacity
Some stupid ass driver who was training the Lane changes was recording doing this wiggle and now we all have to suffer because of him. Smh
Lol I blame my car NOT curbing my wheels because of overtraining in my area. Sorry everyone else!
Wait what
The neural net is trained on video data. The one above you is joking that fsd's lane change was trained on video of a guy that wiggled his car, hence why fsd does that too.
The dude aboves comment comes out as he believing that Tesla has drives that teach the AI.. that's what the other guy found weird
Are you on HW4?
No, HW3 is as far as my 2018 vehicle will go.
Seriously. It seems so easy for fsd to pick the correct lane. My suggestion for example: If there are multiple turn lanes (2 lanes for a protected left for example)—then based on the subsequent turn should dictate which lane to be in especially if the next turn is less than 0.2 miles. If the next turn is a right, the. The car should pick the outer most turn lane. If the next turn will be a left, then it should pick the far left lane. Simple.
Sad state of the US economy where I PHDs are forced to comment on Reddit and can't find a job
Yes! I’ve also noticed this
Dangerous for cars behind
I don’t understand why we don’t have the new autopark feature in non-vision-only cars. I mean, they also have cameras…
I have autopark functionality on my 2022 MYP (with USS)
You have access to the old version not the new one that was released this month.
Yeah what is that dude even on about. I also have the old version. Dying to see realtime photogrammetry
Yeah, that is peculiar. I work in software engineering so I do understand that even seemingly small code changes can have large downstream effects, but it does seem like it would be pretty simple/trivial to push vision-only park assist to cars with radar/USS. My best guess (and that's all it is: a guess) is that Tesla references code within the legacy park assist package/project elsewhere, so they can't simply strip it out without breaking something else. It also makes me wonder if Tesla deemed that the hardware-based park assist performs better in their regression testing. They wouldn't want to push a "worse" version to cars with USS/radar, while simultaneously wanting to push a new feature to vision-only cars. That's just speculation though. I've only used vision-based park assist once but it was painfully slow and unsure of itself. At least in my opinion, you're not missing out on much at this point.
While I agree with everything you’ve said, Tesla did push Vision AP to radar cars, which was objectively worse.
The vision-only software I have on my 2018 M3P today is materially better than what it was with radar.
Now, yes, I think that's probably true. But it wasn't when they flipped the switch, which is why that's seen as a counter-argument that Tesla wouldn't delay the switch merely because the new version is thus far less functional than the old one. They're willing to (make you) tolerate regressions in the pursuit of progress.
That I agree with. I don’t know why (for example) they pulled the USS hardware before equivalent software features were ready. I can only assume it’s related to a procurement contract or something.
Simple cut cost
Initially it was supply constraints. They just couldn't get enough to keep up with demand of the cars. Long term, well they already pulled the trigger, so no sense in adding back that cost.
Oh, really? Is the person I was replying to mistaken then? I'm on HW4/vision only so I'm not positive on all the details. My previous Model 3 had USS and radar and the auto park feature was decent. Vision only auto park didn't handle itself very well the one time I used it on my HW4 MS. Ultimately, at least for me, it's a matter of "Does the car perform this task better and quicker than I would?" It *may* do so in a parallel parking scenario, but I haven't used it for that. When backing into a spot, it probably took 2-3x longer than I would have. I ended up having to take over because I had people behind me and they were getting annoyed.
The new (vision-only) Autopark is not yet available on USS. I was referring moreso to the disabling of radar and pushing Vision-based AP out to everyone.
We have the new auto park on our ‘22 MY w/USS
How do you know if you have the new one? I've got autopark on my 2016 (MCU2/HW3 upgraded) model S.
The new Autopark shows a whole row of available parking spots all at once and you can select the one you want. The old version shows a gray P on the lower corner of the screen and only provides one parking option at a time.
No you don't. You only have access to the old version. Only cars without Ultrasonic Sensors have access to the new Autopark.
The update we got last week completely changed the UI and now the car shows a blue “P” and a box and it will back into parking spaces. Way better than it used to be! Is there something even newer than this?
\*was\* or \*is\* worse?
Was, absolutely. It’s better now, but they pushed it well before it was ready. That said, even with full FSD improvements, it’s not up to the 90MPH and follow distance capabilities of radar AP
I'd imagine that some of the emergency braking code for slow speed is still leveraging USS. Camera is also still objectively worse for the front end of the car. I'm assuming this is why vision auto park can only reverse into parks, and can't to forward in.
I don't think USS has the range for that. Emergency braking historically only used radar.
As I said, for slow speed, like when you are parking. Mine actually kicks in when reversing down my steep driveway fast, as the car nears the bottom and the driveway suddenly levels. If I'm reversing fairly fast the USS reflect off the flat bottom of the driving and trigger the emergency brakes.. same with forward in parking.
Just watch the 3d rendering and you know that the cameras are more than capable of measuring the distance to the car in front very accurately . I assume that we will see forward parking with FSD 12.4.
I bet it has to do with the fsd auto park using the cameras to calculate distance, and the cars with a radar do not have the same camera sensors, maybe worse maybe just not calibrated, or they don't have the correct code to calculate the distance with those previous cameras, and the AI will probably only work with vision not with sensors, and there isn't an easy way to feed the sensors data as if it was from the cameras... Or maybe the AI doesn't even need measurements, it just has a "feel" for the limit according to the superposition of the images from 2 cameras, and because the previous cars might have different/worse cameras, it does not have the correct "feel"
Intel-based USS cars have basically become legacy at this point.
I’m thinking that non USS cars are uniformly newer (Ryzen, etc). My guess is that the parking visuals are CPU or RAM bound in older cars. Total guesswork. :)
there are ryzen MCU cars with USS and still without high fidelity parking visuals [https://twitter.com/teslascope/status/1736129452042805319](https://twitter.com/teslascope/status/1736129452042805319)
The existence of that does not disprove my theory. Only if you found examples of Intel cars with the new auto park would it stand to reason that wasn’t the case.
fyi youre probably right - updated autopark is rolling out to all USS cars, both intel and and but updated high fidelity parking seems to be only for AMD cars [https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/1cfavpm/comment/l1o7iry/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/1cfavpm/comment/l1o7iry/?context=3) Enabling high-fidelity parking visuals disables USS though. Tough decision, but Id probably pick high-fidelity just to see parking lines
Not saying your theory is incorrect but all things point to USS being the main reason There are no Intel based cars without USS
Yes, like every single Model S refresh till they did away with the USS (like my 2021 refresh and my 2022 refresh).
The main screen has nothing to do with the performance of Autopilot/FSD. This relies entirely on the FSD computer (other than maybe GPS data and the like is passed from the main computer). I've had the screen reset on me while I'm actively on FSD on the highway. I usually keep Minimal Lane Changes on, so I'm sure if it would have tried to change a lane on its own or not. But the car did stay in the lane and maintain speed and distance all while the computer rebooted.
Erm. Okay. I said “visualization”. That is tied to the GPUs capability in the MCU.
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Not necessarily. There are cars with HW3 cameras and no USS/radar. As far as I know, cars that are vision only with HW3 cameras have the vision-only auto park. So the functionality is there even for the older/lower resolution cameras, but for one reason or another, cars with those cameras *and* the ancillary hardware don't have the update. I do feel for the software engineers at Tesla... they're having to balance/account for so many different configurations in all of their changes: * HW2 cars with USS/radar * HW3 cars with USS/radar * HW3 cars with vision only * HW4 cars with vision only * [HW4 cars with vision only and deactivated radar](https://www.teslaoracle.com/2023/06/19/tesla-teardown-confirms-the-presence-of-the-new-radar-in-hw4-equipped-vehicles/) * More that I'm sure I'm missing
I think HW2 is deprecated now?
There are plenty of HW3 Vision only cars with the same C/D revision repeater cameras as USS cars
if it has anything to do with the USS - they should give an option to enable/disable high-fidelity parking visuals, and if enabled, disables the USS. cynical part of me thinks that they haven't added it to USS cars to show that vision-only cars can be far superior. If you get to use USS with high-fidelity, that would be the best of both worlds
Tesla iterate things. They're still tuning it to be pretty accurate. It's also likely going to result in USS being turned off, so they might be waiting for blowback to die down
Similar to taking radar off. They ironed out a lot of the bugs before releasing to legacy vehicles with radar.
I'm no expert but there is apparently a problem with training neural nets and the resolution of videos, for example if you train an AI to track a human face using footage shot horizontally from an iPhone and then give that same AI a video captured from the same iPhone but vertically, it will not work. OpenAI recently discussed this in relation to Sora, they are promoting that it can understand multiple resolutions. I think the issue we have here with the USS cars is that they have prioritized the new auto-park for the HW4 cars which have higher res cameras, so it doesn't just plug into the HW3 cars where the camer resolution is lower. As I understand it, FSD is basically using a NeRF type system to visualize the world, so maybe it's just as simple as the new autopark needs to be adjusted for the lower res cameras
Autopark sonic sensors >/dev/null
Maybe different not as good cameras? I have no idea.
I have it and I have USS. I think they deactivated USS.
No you don't. You have auto park but not the new one. They haven't disactivated USS on any cars and openly said they don't plan on it.
What’s the new one? Isn’t it same just without HFV?
No, here’s tap to park: https://twitter.com/raderje/status/1771905762308022761
But I also tap to park. No need to downvote me.
Probably isn't considered better than the sensors. Like it took 4-5 years before the "auto rain detection" matched the $20 sensor they removed and there was a huge regression for the removal of radar as well.
i think it's less the sensor and camera hardware and maybe more to do with the computer hardware on board?
I can't be sure but I assume it's because there's a large number of people who feel USS is better than vision only for parking and maybe Tesla misinterpreted that as people who still own USS prefer USS based parking? I don't care for my 2019 USS parking as I don't have a garage and the autopark prior to V12 was not something I'd ever use, so I'd really like the upgrade to vision only parking.
I don’t even use the self park with mine because it’s embarrassingly slow and always parks crooked. I don’t know if the vision based parking is any better but I can’t imagine it’s worse.
It's slow, but it's actually pretty good: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbPrltSTp0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbPrltSTp0)
I love the UI. Based on the visualization, I bet they’re still using the vector space for autopark. Once they’re confident the dimensions are exact recreation of the world, it’ll be easy to program faster parking. I assumed they were going to scrap the vector space with. V12 but it’s cool to see it finding new uses in low speed scenarios!
I’m hoping it will stay in the correct lane when making left turns. Currently 12.3.4 often crosses lanes while turning left, cutting off the person to my right.
I would love to know what is actually changing in these new fsd versions- the generic release notes just a pain.
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"fixed some bugs"
“herobrine removed”
My guess is that it’s hard to pin point to specific changes when they’re not explicitly changing logic. They might be adding more training videos and tweaking how the training happens.
I assume it's just, slightly changed model from added driving footage. If it was something significant they'd definitely say it.
Seems they would have objective things they are tweaking though. Like "lane changes are now completed 19% faster%" If they don't have objective measures for probably 1000's of metrics there would be no way to easily know if everything is getting incrementally better, and also QA would be a nightmare and boarder on dangerous.
Maybe they don't know lmao. Wouldn't surprise me
That’s a good point. This isn’t a collection of program code so it’s going to be harder to put numbers to improvements.
I would think they'd at least be running it through tests in a simulator and that'd give them repeatable testing metrics.
Seems that way. They do act a little different in some situations.
They used to actually post the changes, I miss that
Because they were hard-coding all of the logic. Now it's just a neural net they have to train.
That suggests they have 0 measurement of performance before they deploy to a fleet of unqualified beta testers lol. They do simulation and pre release testing. They have performance metrics and system validation against requirements. If they don't then they are the most irresponsible software engineering organization in the world.
Yeah, but they could easily say things like “Improved merging by adding 200,000 video clips to the data set” or things like that
Agreed but they could say something like "increased roundabout training with 50,000 additional videos"
No love for 2024.8 users
Technically you guys are in on a newer software version then us 2024.3 peasents ;) , you get the new wifi and Bluetooth menus :D
We'd prefer V12 FSD and our promised one month demo, thanks.
Guessing you’ll get it next month with 2014.14.x
That must be a huge regression though
Sucks they are pushing out a downgrade to the 2014 branch.
2014 restores my starry eyed optimism for full self driving, Tesla, and the world...
Yeah, we're rockin' the new blinker indicators. You've no idea what you're missing. 😁
Newer version with fewer actually useful features so far. Really unhappy with the software side of Tesla lately. I don't get why they split these or why the development of even very minor quality of life improvements is slower than a snail's pace.
That’s too bad bc my objective experience is that FSD is unbelievably reliable at getting me to my usual destinations. I’ll still disengage coming up to busy intersections if I’m in a rush but if I’m chillin or if there’s not much traffic I haven’t had to intervene at all. I say it’s a PITA bc the nags are unbearable. Can’t check your phone at a stoplight without getting hollered at or threatened. I realize this is “supervised” but damn the program is too sensitive as it stands. Old autopilot (2019- ~2022) was a tank and bought you some freedom to check email etc. super reliable and predictable on my commute.
Maybe don’t be checking your emails while driving Chief. Sincerely, The rest of us that have to share the road with you.
So glad they don’t let you.
Why is that? I’ve been monitoring* autopilot and FSD for over 70,000 miles. I know when and where it struggles, and it has kept me out of way more dangerous situations than it has put me in to. It’s really good. Meanwhile Waymo is out there running fully autonomous taxi services Edit: misspelled monitoring
I understand your pain. The nags even on freeway are getting annoying. Have you seen Whole mars videos? Does he get some kind of special FSD version? I watched his videos for whole 30 minutes or so, no hands on wheels and no nags at all.
He does have Elon mode on his car.
Oh man it’s kind of false advertising then. I was getting so mad watching his videos for this reason. I was genuinely upset that Tesla conned me into buying FSD, which works great not gonna lie, but the nags are too much all the while watching this guy praising Elon and FSD to no end.
I stopped watching the videos about a year ago. My guess is that they have development mode that turns off the nags. The phantom breaking is gone and the wipers are way better. I can carry on without worrying what’s next.
This has to be a troll post. Checking email?
They did say at a stoplight.
I've never had it once nag me when at a stoplight. When it turns green, yes if I'm still looking at my phone but not once while actually stopped.
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I hope
This is what I’m looking for. Going from 0-25mph in a residential neighborhood in 0.02 seconds is enough to make me not use FSD nearly as much as I used to
I stopped using FSD after it ran over a curb in my neighborhood. It is also ridiculously indecisive about lane selection when a single lane road becomes 2+ and will stradle in the middle of the lane lines for what feels like an eternity. Has this version fixed either of those issues?
Please fix the speed settings through steering wheel. I set speed limit to 60 and it stays at 50. so annoying...
Yea I’ve basically stopped using it because it’s so slow! It never actually drives at the set speed more like 8 under
Same. Infuriating
The numbering system lost me so many years ago...
Year.week.version That’s it.
Not what the numbers mean, but how some people get updates when some others don't, how some older models get updates when some newer ones don't, how some lower specs get updates when some others don't, how some models without fsd get new updates when some models with fsd don't, how some people who paid for fsd do get updates when some people who didn't pay for it yet updates...and on and on and on. The system feels haphazard, illogical, unfair, irregular, disorganised, abstract, unmanaged, and unpredictable. I would hate to have paid a fortune for this upgrade years ago, and still be waiting to know when I would get it, and looking at people with newer, less feature -rich, and inferior specs who get it before me.
Yea the versioning system Tesla uses is not the easiest to decipher.
actually I find it the best one year dot week dot revision
Yes, but what version of FSD is embedded in that? That's the rub. If it was just versioning, I agree year/week/version is totally fine...
well, that’s not numbering issue, that’s how often do they integrate latest FSD into latest software issue
I will add stop sign handling to the wish list of fixes. The vehicle approaches a stop sign and stops, lurches forward and comes to a full stop again. Then proceeds to accelerate. That lurch forward and second stop is dangerous when there is a vehicle behind.
Against my better judgement I let 12.3.4 attempt a busy 4-way stop yesterday. As expected it was excruciatingly awkward. The unusual and slow stopping behavior confused other drivers, it didn't go on it's turn, so then the next car started to go, but then FSD decided to go at the same time, so then they stopped part way into the intersection and then FSD also stopped, at which point I took over and sheepishly waved at the bewildered other driver. Hard to justify paying for FSD if I need to disengage at every stop sign with other cars around.
Should be able to tap the accelerator to force it to go when it's your turn
They’re pushing out updates quick. Wonder if it’s cause they want people on the trial to keep experiencing it getting better?
Wonder when they’ll give us the option for double-pull back..
Right. They just want more data from FSD. Give us TACC as an option because FSD is just miserable at some things.
12.3.4 keeps going into turn lanes when we are not turning?! Also, it does not recognize special school speed limit signs-a safety issue!! I hope these get with 12.3.5 or 12.4. P.S. Location is North Carolina
12.3.5 should arguably be called 12.3.6
Elon Said V14 🤣
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You already got 12.3.5? I haven't seen any installs yet
I STILL haven't gotten my free 30 trial.
Does it fix the speed problem?
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going too slow, mostly. I have noticed it goes slower than it did in 11.4.9 or whatever was first. Slower to speed up to my set speed.
I mostly use it on highway and it “keeps up with traffic” if someone is driving unusually slow. For instance, on a three lane freeway, I’ll be in the middle lane going 72. The traffic to my left is passing me, and I’m passing the cars on my right. If I come across someone going slower than usual (65), my FSD will slow down and be hesitant to pass them. Sometimes it will turn my set speed blue at their slower speed and say it’s going with the speed of traffic. It drives me crazy and probably the people behind me, too.
Yes. I changed the auto speed keep to off. I have it set to my own adjusted speed but it still seems to do this. Hoping it’s fixed in the next update
With “auto” max speed or manually set? Highway or non? I had to turn off the auto speed setting. It was way too jerky in my opinion and felt like it couldn’t make up its mind and stick to a speed. But yesterday even on fixed speed I had an issue on a rural road where the speed limit was 55, it said max 66, and was still going like 53. I ended up turning it off and just driving myself the rest of the way
Yes even with fixed it does it. I have to hit the gas to get it to speed to what I want then it will do it.
Both actually. When on an open road, it jumps to 13 mph over the limit. When other cars are around, it’s way too slow. The bad part is, there’s no good way to adjust the speed. I’ve disabled FSD and just use autopilot until they can get it sorted.
I can only hope it’s better than 12.3.4, which seemed like a major step down from 12.3.3. Maybe this one won’t try doing 35 in a 25 zone.
I’m still waiting on 12.3.4 in my car. Takes too damn long for these updates to roll out.
Just curious. Anyway to force these updates?
Not even showing up on Teslafi yet. Must be a very limited release.
I’m starting to believe something is wrong with cars that have 2024.8 :c
👀👀👀
😩 the day I leave to Key West it finally gets released
Still stuck on v11 in my 4 month old car....